Florida State Gets Back to Winning Way With 63-58 Victory over Virginia Tech Hokies
by TrueCubbie on Jan 17, 2010 2:31 PM EST
in FSU Basketball
36 comments
It wasn't pretty, but the Seminoles took care of business and avoided a three game losing streak in the ACC by beating the Hokies 63-58 at the Tucker Center last night. In a match up that featured two of the top defenses in the ACC, Florida State's defense held on long enough to get the Seminoles the win. Florida State held the Hokies to their second lowest point total of the season and the Hokies second wort offensive efficiency rating of the year. They also forced the Hokies into 18 turnovers, five more than their season average.
This was a big win for the Seminoles for a number of reasons. It stopped their two game ACC losing streak and kept them in the middle of the pack in the ACC. Virginia remains the only undefeated team in the ACC after their win over Miami. This was also a good win in that the Seminoles were able to endure the multiple runs that Virginia Tech put together trying to get back into the game. Each time Virginia Tech showed signs of life, the Seminoles were able to weather the storm, eventually closing out the game. The game flow chart illustrates this point well:
This was also a big game for Michael Snaer who hit two clutch free throws with 20 seconds left. Apparently, Virginia Tech tried to rattle the freshman.Snaer was calm and collected, hitting both shots, demonstrating the importance of this young man on the team. Snaer finished the game with eight points, seven rebounds and one assist in 26 minutes of play.
Solomon Alabi had another nice night for the Seminoles and lead the team with 13 points. He also pulled down eight rebounds and had two blocks. The other astonishing stat from the box score is that he played 32 minutes, which is excellent for a big man, particularly a seven footer. It's not easy to get that big frame up and down the court. Dulkys also had 13 points and went two for six from beyond the arc. However, as a team, the Seminoles only shot 4-17 from beyond the arc.
Chris Singleton had a wonderful night on the defensive end. He only finished the night with two points and had four turnovers, but he made up for it down the stretch with two monster blocks. He pulled down eight rebounds, had three steals and five blocks on the night. He was able to get Jeff Allen into foul trouble early and limited one of the Hokie's best players to only three points on the night with four turnovers.
Speaking of turnovers, the Seminoles returned to their old ways with 23 turnovers on the night. Singleton and Reid accounted for nine of those. Despite having a TO% of less than 20 for the past three games, the Seminoles TO% increased to a whopping 32.9%. Many of these were unforced, unnecessary mistakes: stepping out of bounds, sloppy passing. This also happened in a game that Virginia Tech played a good amount of zone defense against the Seminoles. This may be the strategy that more teams will take against the Seminoles in the future.
The Seminoles now get a week off before the Yellow Jackets visit Tallahassee. The Yellow Jackets are coming off big win at Chapel Hill over the Tarheels 73-71. The Yellow Jackets had a 16 point lead in that game but were able to hang on at the end. The Yellow Jackets face Clemson at home on Tuesday before making the trip to the Tucker Center.
Here are a few more charts to review from last night's game:
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I hate to be negative nancy
but am I the only one who thinks this team is going to fall on its face? I have never seen a team that has as many TOs as ours does, do anything of note.
Also, for as tall as we are (unless Im wrong thinking we are a tall team), we should really rebound a hell of a lot better.
Seriously, is Hamilton capable of hiring someone to do the actual coaching while does the only thing he is good at (recruiting)
Cheers.
Keep in mind that last year’s team had a TO% of 22% for the year and had a TO% over 25% in 12 games last year. It needs to get better for sure. Can only rely on the defense for so long.
You are correct in thinking we are a tall team. In fact…we’re the tallest team in the country. But, height doesn’t automatically equal great rebounding.
Ken Pomeroy wrote an article about effective height and found which factors on which height has the greatest impact. They are the following:
1. Block Pct.
2. 2-pt% defense
3. eFG% defense
4. adjusted defensive efficiency
We do all of those well. In fact we rank 2nd, 1st, 2nd and 6th nationally in those respective categories. We rebound well on the offensive end, ranking 24th in the nation for OR%, but only 196th nationally for DR%. Some may argue that it results from playing tight man to man defense and not being in good position to rebound as we are spread out on the floor. Well…if we’re playing man to man, we should be right next to our opponents and therefore have the same chance of rebounding the ball. It really comes down to positioning in the paint, a little bit of luck and a desire to get the ball. Height certainly helps, but look at Dejuan Blair. Not a big guy by any mean and he killed it on the glass last year.
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It really comes down to positioning in the paint, a little bit of luck and a desire to get the ball. Height certainly helps, but look at Dejuan Blair. Not a big guy by any mean and he killed it on the glass last year.
TC, I assume you include technique in “positioning.” What value do you place on blocking shots v. positioning. It seems to me that we try for a lot of blocks that are not reasonable, which leaves us out of position. Wouldn’t it be better not to try to block them to much? I assume there is some optimal mix here.
It certainly is a trade off.
We defend the paint better than anyone in the country. We have one of the highest block percentages and the lowest FG% in the country. Keep in mind the number of shots we don’t block but force the extra pass or bad miss or turnover.
As a result of the increased missed shots, there are simply more shots to rebound. If we are so aggressive to go after the shooter in the paint, we’re not going to be boxing out. Like the picture at the top of the article, both Singleton and Alabi are making the block and Alabi appears as if he is coming down the paint to challenge the shot when Singleton already had good position.
I would be really interested to see what percentage of rebounds depending on the distance of the shot. Do we get the same or higher percentage of rebounds on shots from 18ft+ vs 15ft+ and so on. The big question would be if we give up more rebounds on the close shots as a result of our aggressive attempts to block shots? I’ll see if that data exists. I fear that it doesn’t for college basketball.
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I quickly took a look at the national rankings for height, block% and DReb%
Of the top 20 teams for block%, only 2 are in the top 20 for DReb% (Tulsa and Mississippi St.) If you look carefully at Mississippi St’s schedule, they have only really played 3 or 4 teams that have any considerable height.
Of the top 20 teams for DReb% only one is in the top 20 for height (Tulsa). But, of the top 20 teams for height , 8 are in the top 20 for block percentage.
Only one team is in the top 20 for block%, DReb% and Height: Tulsa.
This is only a really quick look at the numbers and represents a tiny sample set, but it appears that the taller teams in the country are really good at blocking shots, but that might come at the cost of rebounding, which is reflected in teh argument listed above by Ken Pomeroy.
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thats some pretty good info to consider. good post.
also, although it seems intuitive that if we are playing tight man-to-man we should be in the same position as our opponents for rebounding, don’t we have to take into account that they are facing the hoop while we are not, thus giving them the jump on seeing where the rebound is going (not to mention moving forward instead of backward)?
There is no way to peace; peace is the way.
Absolutely. They are at an advantage, particularly if we are running at the shot, momentum is going the wrong way.
There are so many variables that go into rebounding we could discuss this for hours. But I find it interesting about the height, blocking and defensive rebounding.
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Lets also not forget the obvious: KenPom has the team's def effcncy at
- in the country, and the defensive effective FG % ranked #2. Its hard to complain about that when the Off turnover percentage is where it is.
There is no way to peace; peace is the way.
We have been this way since Hamilton arrived.
Last year we finished #291 in TO% and this year we are currently at #325. It is a horrible problem, but we seem to make up for it with superb defense. Last year, no one expected us to finish so well, so hopefully we can repeat that this year, except for the early NCAA exit.
Process > Results
The good thing is that the ACC is up for grabs. If 6 teams are likely to get in, we should make the tournament.
Our length of stay in the tournament will be entirely dependent on the match up. Wisconsin was a terrible draw for us.
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you are no negative Nancy. This team has shown every predilection towards awe-inspiring
self-inflicted wounds. Its no stretch to surmise that will be what turns a bid in the Dance to a NIT spot. Only the most pollyannish of fans would expect marked improvement out of this offense the remainder of this season.
If we make the Tourney, it will be due to lock-down defense with a helping of lady luck. This is not to say I have given up on our Noles. I’ll be a Partizan Tallahassee the whole way, let the chips fall where they may.
There is no way to peace; peace is the way.
I don't know about marked
but the O does improve as the season progresses. the 2 big reasons are Snaer and Dulkys. Both are starting to assert themselves and you can see the confidence growing. That takes pressure off the big guys inside & you get less double team TOs from them holding the ball for too long, which is really the biggest source of our TO woes. that also makes our PGs look better.
This team will be inconsistent all year though because of the youth. The team should make the tourney, but I think a one and done tourney is a very successful season. Now the next 2 yrs this team should be sweet 16. anything less is a huge coaching failure.
This offense is totally different if Snaer can get rolling on a regular basis.
As you also point out, Dulkys needs to be more consistent. He is shooting well from beyond the arc, but it needs to be night in and night out. He is shooting 45.7% from beyond the arc…which is pretty amazing.
You spread the defense and it allows Solomon to go to work. This team is close. If this core group of players sticks around, next year should be a great year. With the addition of Ian Miller, a true point guard, and Okaro White, another athletic forward, Brandon James a big physical power forward and Jon Kreft another seven footer…this should be a tough tea m to beat. It also helps that Kreft is already on campus and practicing.
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Would Miller be able to come in and contribute right away? If so what would that do to Kitchen?
I’m not convinced that FSU will ever do better than a Sweet 16 appearence every 5 years or so with Ham at the helm. I have nothing against him, he’s a good coach and has definately improved FSU. However, unless he can get an offensive coordinator (I’m aware this doesn’t happen in basketball) or at least a good gaurd coach we will be continue to see a high TO% and lose games we shouldn’t.
in basketball we don't call them offensive coordinator
but having an assistant run the entire offense is not unprecedented –
tex winters completely ran phil jackson’s offense for years – earning phil the title of ‘worlds greatest gym teacher’
as per jeff gundy…
we discussed this last year and I think it is what this team needs
obviously it hasn’t happened yet.
Process > Results
Whoa, I'd be stoked with a Sweet Sixteen every 5 years.
And Miller would likely contribute immediately but wouldn’t start. If anything, he’d take pt away from Loucks, unless Miller played the 2 while Loucks ran the offense (at times).
At this point
I will be disappointed if we don’t win a game in the NCAAs. I may be one of the few remaining Hamilton supporters, but I expect progress, especially with this talent and depth.
Process > Results
That crew is certainly dwindling.
I also want progress. I don’t see progress in the “process”. I simply see more talented players on our roster today than when Hamilton got here.
I still think we make the big dance...
but we won’t get very far once we get there. I’m afraid the team is just good enough to keep Hamilton around, but not good enough to win the big one.
Those expectations were set by TK.
And any President ok with paying $1.5M/year for a coach and “not caring” if we make the NCAAT is ridiculous. I expect our expectations to change.
the turnovers are of course problem #1 (and how many rebounds did we tip out of bounds on their missed free-throws?)
but rebounding is #2 – we should dominate every night – we’ve been outrebounded the two prior games – and last night we gave up 13 offensive rebounds – we simply need to box out better
and three point shooting has simply been atrocious…every team is going to sit in a 2-3 zone and make us hit threes
I never thought I'd say this about a frosh
but Snaer needs to shoot more 3s. He has a beautiful shot and he and DD will have to shoot teams out of the zone. Get them some clean looks w/ off balls screens and quit trying to dribble through a zone.
He's 12-33 on the year and has shot the fourth most 3 point shots on the team. He's only a couple behind Loucks for 3rd. Dulkys and Singleton have shot way more of course.
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Let's be honest
Who are you more confident in with regard to their 3-point shooting – Snaer or Singleton?
by CelticPride on Jan 17, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
As always interesting question.
Currently, Snaer is shooting better as illustrated here
Snaer is a better pure shooter. With time, I think Snaer ends up being the better three point shooter on a consistent basis. Singleton is too streaky at this point. He has outstanding games with his three point shot and then some terrible games. It also seems, at times, that he rushes the three point shot, meaning he takes it way to early in the shot clock out of rhythm. Singleton has a nice shot, but he can’t fall in love with his three point shot. It’s not his game and limits the impact he has with his athletic ability. He’s a match up nightmare if he chooses to be.
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On the positive side
I was at the game and it was a good crowd. Especially for a game against someone like Vatech.
by nolejam9 on Jan 17, 2010 5:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I know everyone is frustrated by the turnovers...
Does anyone else feel we have improved our situational play? Maybe it helps that we haven’t had many games come down to the wire yet. Looking at the data, we have a higher TO% thus far, but it seems we are having less difficulty inbounding the ball and we are turning it over less when we are being pressed. Last year, it seems that if TD was not open, the rest of the team was clueless on a lot of set plays. I’ll admit, it could be selective memory, but I’m interested to see what you guys think.
Process > Results
Haven't had many close games?
Iona, Marquette, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Georgia State, NC State…
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