Kevin Steele leaving Clemson for UT
Stewart Mandel tweeted that Steele is bound for UT. I always liked him and he was a great recruiter. He's also the best defensive coordinator in the ACC. Or was. Steele played for Tennessee. Rivals also reported that a contingent of Clemson coaches visited Tavaris Barnes, most probably to hang on to him now that Steele is gone. Hopefully there is some doubt in his mind and he comes back to FSU.
about 2 years ago
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I thought this might be a possibility, given Steele's roots.
Clemson is going down in flames, and quickly. I have very little faith Dabo will pick the right guy to replace him, not being the right guy, himself.
Barnes will come on home, now, if he’s got half a brain.
The road to the ACCCG just got a smidgen easier...
Not saying they won’t have a good defense next year (they still have talent), but Steele was a good coach IMO.
Clemson's best, as a technician and recruiter.
This is like us losing Jimbo to WVU a year ago. He was the only one holding that team together. The inmates will now be running the asylum.
A bigger loss for them
is if the QB gets drafted high in the MLB draft……which he may.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Jan 19, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
He just plays a little eratic at times.
The real test will be how he plays without Ford and Spiller to bail him out of some plays.
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
good man.
this is a family site! :)
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I believe Arrdub was drawing a correllary to compare the magnitudes. hypothetical.
by The K-Man on Jan 19, 2010 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree. I think he meant "if" Fisher had left.
But I disagree in that they are equal in magnitude. Fisher’s “task” at FSU is/was more important than anything Steele was doing/had done at CU, imo. And that’s not even including the hciw label.
Didn't think it was that hard to decipher, but thanks K-Man.
Jimbo was courted by WVU. Clemson = FSU, in an alternate universe, after Fisher’s departure.
I'd trade Stoops for him in a heartbeat
That’s how much i think of Kevin as a coach.
Now, as a person? He’s not the most loyal.
Mickey Jr?
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Really?
That’s not an encouraging sign.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
picking Steele over Stoops, I mean.
There must be a reason Jimbo didn’t pursue him.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Fast forward to 6:22 to see what Steele did to Greene...
watch the entire clip for the most awesome 9 minutes and 37 seconds of your work day…
Besides single handedly saving every recruiting class we had from 2003-2005?
Besides stocking us with 2 first round draft picks at linebacker?
Besides being the only defensive coach we had that would consider newer techniques?
We had some baaaaaad men at LB when Steele was here.
Sims, Davis, Nicholson, Timmons. Heck, even Marcello Church and Sam McGrew would’ve been starters on our team this past year.
Lest we forget he was the fan favorite for our next HC. He was a good recruiter, unlike Lily, imo.
No matter what, my favorite out of those was
Buster Davis.
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
Besides cover up all of Mickey's shortcomings?
I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men.
The "criminole" handle, especially if it's that of a genuine fan, is bothersome to me.
Having gotten that out of the way, I do find that while KS did a fine job here, IMO he wasn’t as phenomenal as he is often portrayed. Sort of the coaching equivalent, in my book, to Greg Jones. Perhaps my acknowledgment of his coaching talents is somewhat responsive to those who saw him as Bobby’s successor. His HCing stint at Baylor made me wonder where the unquestioned love for his star power was coming from. Notwithstanding the later years, Mickey Andrews place in the annals of FSU defensive football, is more than a few rungs higher than KS.
by TEMPORARY LIKE ACHILLES on Jan 19, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well,
if he’s used to being THE man- either the one in charge or the one who stands out as the most dynamic or capable— then I can see why he wouldn’t like this staff… and why they wouldn’t like to have him.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Barnes
We need to get him back…….
Hopefully Steele can take what Monte Kiffin started on that D at UT and use it to knock the Gates back a notch……
Chop it up Seminoles!
Possible replacement?
I have not idea who would replace Steele. Their recruiting might not take a big hit unless the recruit had a close relationship with him. Which could mean that the recruit winds up @ UT.
Go Noles!!
I think so
Their D was great this year despite all those losses.
They brought in a 3-star LB who finished 2nd in the nation in tackles as a freshman.
Plus, anyone with a towel over their shoulder is good at what they do. Foster and Thompson, for instance.
Speak softly, and carry a big Spear
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 19, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I love Spaz.
More than Foster.
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
Loyalty ain't in Kevin's vocab
And several Clemson fans I know got pretty frustrated with Steele toward the end of the year, felt like his D was underachieving actually.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 19, 2010 3:40 PM EST reply actions
I agree I just wanted his take... I'm thinking an equal amount of pass cover breakdowns, but more take aways..
as we have atheletes that will be given better coaching in the secondary, but there still should be some learning curve.
Yeah, right!
Disagree about repeating the number of coverage breakdowns
primarily because we shant see a lot of cover 1. We’ll be playing some zone and keeping guys in front of us.
Correct, but we are not just running zone. There will be route recognition...
which I term as ver well edjucated guesses. There guesses won’t be as “edjucated” until they’ve been in the scheme a while. That was his point with the initial comment and why I feel we will have some failures there while they learn, but also some talented athelets will start to learn the tools they need to jump routes from zone facing the QB. So I still think some give and take.
Yeah, right!
With all the other defensive line recruits FSU has been targeting lately
Are they even willing to think about Barnes again? Has he burnt that bridge I mean?
We would take him back, no doubt
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 19, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno about that. I think
we can do better to be honest. Not a knock on Barnes, but wouldn’t Ego Ferguson be a better player out of the box?
Long term, Barnes >> Ferguson
but I also think Ferguson is really overrated. Barnes upside is tremendous.
Coaches would definitely take Barnes back.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 19, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
FSU told 4* DE J.C. Copeland that the class was full. Saving ’ships for 2011 or is the incoming class that loaded?
Where/when did you hear that?
I heard less than a week ago he was in contact with FSU.
The kid is a member of the ThaRinger's board....
and when asked about FSU, he said they told him they were full.
“I talked with their defensive ends coach (Darin Eliot),” Copeland said. “We talked about me coming down there for a visit. I am going to visit. I am coming down the fourth weekend this month, the 29th.”
So…. What is up with the TN Tweet this morning? Did a Gaytor hack it?
You can take a good look at a Tbone by sticking your head up a bulls ass…. but he is listed on Rivals 6’2" and 240 lbs.
“LaGrange (GA) Troup four-star defensive lineman J.C. Copeland. The 6-foot-2, 271-pound defensive lineman has heard from a number of colleges since Tuesday’s announcement, including Florida State.”
Sorry for reading the wrong info I guess???
Straight from TN's tweet
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 19, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Hope something big is in the works
We are absolutely dry at that position and are turning kids away, wow!
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
TN tweet I saw this morning. I will like WTF??
I was hoping to get more info…..
FSU contacts Tenn. commitment 1/15/2010 ?? So what is going on?
the dude is
- Ht:6’2"
- Wt:240 lbs
- 40:4.65 secs
Who's better, Barnes or Copeland?
I know this may be a moot point since it seems were getting neither
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a bit unlearned on Copeland, thats why I asked
Barnes evidentally wants to play end (Strong side I would assume). Hell, Copeland is the size of a fullback so he’d probably only be serviceable as a speed rusher, but I digress
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
We're taking 7-8 DL
We have
McCloud DT 6’3" 315
Jacobs DT 6’3 300
Erving DT 6’5" 290
Cummings DE 6’2" 265
and we’ll most likely add
Werner DE 6’4" 265 (some say 270)
Lemonier DE 6’4" 235
+ 1 or 2 more to reach the # of 7-8
I had always hoped Lemonier wasn't the 6'5" 221 he was listed at
Thats the size of a shooting guard
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
That size makes me happy.
So much room for growth.
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
so many different numbers
You can take a good look at a Tbone by sticking your head up a bulls ass…. but he is listed on Rivals 6’2" and 240 lbs. So how tall is he FSUncensored?
"LaGrange (GA) Troup four-star defensive lineman J.C. Copeland. The 6-foot-2, 271-pound defensive lineman has heard from a number of colleges since Tuesday’s announcement, including Florida State."
Sorry for reading the wrong info I guess??? So where do you find all the correct ht and wt?
Barnes is a very good DE.
He really balled out at some camp/combine in Jax in spring 09. Best DL there, including guys like Nix and Glenn.
I was a little skeptical when UT hired Dooley...
but it seems he is putting together a pretty good staff.
I think it's a great hire
but only if they give him enough time, which may not happen
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 19, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Depends whether he is deferencial to Dooley
or comes in with an attitude that he is the more experienced coach.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Of course I meant
“deferenctial.
Just so Tricknole doesn’t jump me.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Dooley comes from a very good tree
The man absolutely gets with regard to coaching football.
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 19, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
So he went to see Barnes then decided to take another job?
Steele is one interesting fellow…talented….but interesting.
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...weird
I’d love to know what was said during that visit. I don’t really trust Steele.
Steele is doing his best to claim the title for "Greatest vagabond career assistant"
And people think Gus Malzahn can’t stay in one place, geez!
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
What is there to consider? Tennessee is a better job then Clemson although the conference is a lot harder.
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 19, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Steele wants a HC job foremost
you can get that from Clemson just as well as anywhere else, Rich Rod did after his 2nd year.
if you take another DC job, you take another year to just install it, and a HC job is another year away. He could be a HC in 2011 if he stays at Clemson and we play lights-out on defense next year.
and Clemson countered with a much bigger package
Tennessee in a better conference for sure
But they’ll forever be hard pressed to win it. Seeing that they are only about 5th in the pecking order (Behind UF,Bama,UGA & LSU). Seems like he’ll stay on now that the Tigers have loosened the purse strings a bit
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see UT any further down the pecking order than UGA or LSU
Clearly Bama and UF are the creme of the crop right now, but UT can get it done jjust like UGA or LSU (especially the longer Les Miles sticks around)
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
UGA and LSU are higher
They both have a better recruiting base and comparable funds.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
When was the last time UGA won a NC? Also, UT’s revenues are just as much as UGA and LSU. Hell, there’s a ton of UT fans in North Georgia.
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
when is the last time they had a really good coach?
UGA > Tennessee. Their recruiting base is much better
The recruiting base might be better,
but what does UGA have to show for it?
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
and I'm a Christian
But Richt clearly doesn’t put the work in that Saban does and isn’t willing to make winning decisions.
Richt is too much in the mold of BB...
A little too nice IMO, doesn’t fit in in the cut throat SEC IMO. At least Fisher seems to be a good mix of some of that old school Bowden charm on the surface but modern tough as nails Sabanesque on the interior. Or at least I hope that’s how he coaches.
Hmmm...
Don’t think that’s right. Every revenue figure I’ve pulled up has UT right there with LSU and UGA.
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
They had UT at a total sports revenue of 88 million and made no mention of their football revenue
Their football revenue is around 42 or so
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Ahhhhh...
Well, I still don’t think there’s a significant difference between UGA and UT. If Kiffin could continue to recruit, and dad keeping the defense like it was, they’d have a better shot at contending in the SEC east than UGA.
LSU has the potential, but as long as they keep Lester around, I lump them in with the UT and UGA. I don’t see any of them heads and shoulders above the other
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
You have to look at the jobs and not the coaches
LSU and UGA have advantages as a program that UT doesn’t have. If Lane was the coach for UGA or LSU and didn’t have to go as far to scout and recruit his job would have been easier.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
USA Today
puts UT’s athletics revenue for 07-08 at about $102M, compared to $85M and $86 for LSU and UGA. I understand that’s not football specific, but does football revenue not mirror overall for those schools?
No, because of their basketball programs
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot about their women's team.
Because there’s no way I’d believe their basketball team brought in at least $17M more than LSU or UGA’s teams. Do you know how much their women’s team brings in? Is that part of RaysnNoles article?
I don't and am not sure
but I think it is one of the only revenue earning womens teams
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Is FSUn's claim that UGA and LSU have more football revenue than UT
supported by your story? Or is it more UF/FSU/UM related?
Men and Women's BB Revenue at UT
$16,372,528 (Women’s team actually loses money just like every women’s collegiate sports programs does).
Keep in mind those above numbers include varying amount of booster contibutions. Before you ask I have no idea what those contribtions are.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Which is basically the exact same difference in overall sports revenue
between UT and LSU/UGA, as reported by USA Today. Which would lead me to think their football revenues are pretty similar.
I’ll wait for your article and see if what I’m wondering gets cleared up.
Not sure about the best place to post this...
But the link below will take you to a searchable database of athletic revenues, per the survey mandated by the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act. That is where all of this information comes from.
Glad to help.
Really fascinating stuff. Particularly to me, seeing the bounty that a BCS bid/NCAA tourney berth represents to a “mid-major” it’s not surprising they are so fiercely competing (on and off the field) for these potential windfalls.
LSU vs Tennesee
Comparable economic resources, but Louisiana blows the doors off of Tennesse in recruiting base. Notice that Tennessee always have to go out of state to get talent. Manning (Louisiana) Jamal Lewis (Atlanta,Georgia), Haynesworth (S.Carolina), Berry (Georgia). LSU has capital but fans don’t immediately associate them with affluence. But they are a big $ program with in-state talent to burn. Their coach is a S*** talking nut job who is riding the coat tails of Saban’s previous success
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with the statement about MIles
but if UT can GET the talent, then what does that matter? I agree that given similar coaching talents, LSU probably trumps UT, but UGA? Absolutely not IMO.
Also, with the competiion in the SEC being like it is, how significant of a difference do you guys think it is? Hell, if mount Cody doesn’t get his big-ass paws up in time, then UT beats Bama, while UGA is getting a mudhole stomping by UF.
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Point being
Those other schools are better from a coaching perspective. They can get just as much money as they could from Tennesee but don’t have to work nearly as hard to get talent. Of Tennessee’s good players most of them come from outta state.Hell, I have a distant cousin in the NFL who went to UT from outta state (Oklahoma). Kiffin racked up a bucket of secondary violations during his short time there. Why? Trying to recruit kids outta state.
Speaking of such, why do you think Kiffin high tailed it out of dodge so quickly? To recruit in Los Angeles county(Lets cut the dream job BS). As far as UGA is concerned. Look, if Saban, Meyer, Kelly, or any other top notch coach if given a choice between UGA & UT, they’re going to coach UGA. There’s reason Muschamp told them no: He’s 38, getting paid 900k to live in Austin, and in 3-5 years will have the State of Texas all to himself to recruit. Georgia can pay the same as UT, the state of Georgia just has way more players. No coach wants to be DEPENDANT on out of state talent to compete. Bama, UF,LSU and UGA views it as a luxury
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
IMO, UT and UGA share a vast majority of the recruiting base, and they’re both challenged by in state rival programs whose success is also up and down.
Not to mention the fact that the UGA recruiting base is shrinking, thanks to Coley and Co.
Also, I think Kiffin to USC makes sense for him, because he felt comfortable there. If UCLA calls him, then I don’t think he makes the move.
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Off topic, but Kiffin is a snake
His getting that job was contigent on him being able to bring his staff over with him. Oh they didn’t hire just Lane, they made sure Papa Kiff and Ed was comin first. Kiffin is the only is guy who can make “Count Chuckula” (Al Davis) look like he made a sound decision. UCLA? Rick isn’t doing anything over there. UCLA’s fanbase is so happy but they don’t realize Dorrell had an equal (If not slightly better) record, and had no previous HC experience.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
LSU is a top five job in the country
Louisiana plus east Texas = a great recruiting base, behind only UF in the SEC.
LSU has to be top 10
but I would think Bama is a better job than LSU. their florida and georgia connections outweigh louisiana recruits
idk about that
Bama does generally have it’s pick of the litter in it’s state, but the Pensacola area is not always talent laden. Louisiana is a hotbed of football talent and they have it all to themselves. Then they also get a few top end recruits from TX every year.
Louisiana talent > Alabama
i'd be curious to see how good LSU would be if there was another half-decent team in La.
Bama has Auburn to deal with, and La. Tech isn’t all that impressive, despite their conference and scheduling. Bama is still the better gig, IMO
and the atmosphere is rediculous
I went to the UF vs. LSU game this year with my little cuz, who signed to play Bball for LSU next year. There is no comparison to their in-game noise and excitement. Wish Tallahassee could get 1/10 as amped as those cajuns were for LSU.
Jobs to take over LSU
UF, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Ohio State, Penn State
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
ND and Michigan are done
Can’t pull the type of talent needed to win the big one. I think more often than not Penn State won’t be able to compete either because of a lack of team speed.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Penn State has won a lot more recently and has a better recruiting base. ND is trying to recruit nationally with no success in over a decade. Their big advantage used to be the NBC deal but now everyone is on TV. The only thing ND has going for it is the money.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
so i guess the question is
more money and less wins (more pressure)
or
less money and more wins (more job security)
Penn State, really?
Oklahoma maybe, but ever since Texas righted their recruiting ship and stopped allowing Oklahoma to steal the prime Texas kids, OU hasn’t been able to do much with Texas.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Don't be fooled...
OU and LSU still get top notch talent out of Texas
The top 3
Tier 1: USC/ Texas/ UF (no order)
Tier 2: Ohio State/ LSU/ UGA/ Bama/ Oklahoma/ Notre Dame (no order)
Tier 3: Michigan/ FSU/ / Penn State/ Tennessee (no order)
Tier 4: Miami/ Oregon/ Oklahoma State/ Arkansas/ South Carolina/ Auburn/ Clemson/ Texas A&M
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ohio St not a 1st tier??
they send more players to the NFL, make more money than UF and USC, own recruiting in the midwest, play in a conference that sets them up to play a BCS bowl every year, and have as much if not more tradition and better fans than USC, Texas, and UF…just my opinion…
They lack the recruiting base and the perception of their program has been declining
The top 3 are undisputed by almost everyone. They have 1st shot at the 3 best recruiting areas in the country.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State's, Michigan, and Notre Dame's
tradition matters less and less as the years go by
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
but OSU is the only one of those teams to consistently make bcs bowl games
and by tradition, i dont mean just like the 1950s. the fact that they put so many players in the nfl and are always near the top, in a region of the country where no one gives any respect to, they have plenty of recent tradition. ohio is smaller than fla, cali, and texas, yet their roster is 85% ohio kids and have all this success. the only thing that drops them to second tier is a non-statistic intangible (perception)
I don't think people realize there are 13M people living in Ohio.
And literally about 10M of them are Ohio State fans.
That second point
is meant to point out that almost every top prospect from Ohio will at the very least have OSU in their final few favorites.
and the midwest puts out good talent
not just from ohio, but especially pennsylavania, michigan, illinois, iowa, etc.
it hasn’t recently translated into national championships, but look at nfl rosters and you’d all be surprised how many are from the midwest.
it's declining though with the decline of manufacturing jobs
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
That is possible, but unemployment is high everywhere.
So I wouldn’t make that claim until we are “recovered” from the recession to see what really happened.
I moreso mean the stuff that started in the earlier part of the decade
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Population estimates for 2009
are actually a tad higher for Ohio and Michigan than the counted population in 2000. But I’ll agree there are less elite prospects in Ohio than Florida. 83% of Ohio is white (non-hispanic), where Florida is at 60%, and obviously minorities are quite good in athletics.
Is that you, Jimmy The Greek?
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
by O-Town Nole on Jan 20, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Ohio State can go to BCS games essentially for free
due to the fact that they have the best recruiting base by far in a horrible conference. You cannot always go by population. Ohio has relatively the same amount of kids participating in HS football as Florida. Just like Texas actually has more kids participating in HS football than California.
OSU is second tier perceptionwise because when they’ve flopped recently when facing teams flooded with California, Louisiana, and Florida kids
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
And because the talent they can get is not the same as the big 3
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
is it really talent?
because they put more players in the nfl than any school in texas or california. i know its a totally different ballgame, but i just dont get how an osu roster with so many future professionals can lack the talent to win.
maybe they’re undercoached or just late bloomers
Coaching error
I don’t think the sweater vest is as good a coach as Carroll, Saban, or Meyer. I would say he is equal with the Mad Hatter.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
he's like richt and stoops
not that shaping some of these clowns into real men is a bad thing, but they do all seem to put winning 2nd in priority
Over what time period?
USC definitely has more kids during Carrol’s time than OSU during same, right? I guess the 2002 year was really good.
yes, it is talent IMO.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
recently, yes
but it’s harder to get a kid not from ohio (or the midwest) to go to Ohio State than it is to get someone to travel cross-country to florida or california
considering how the quality of programs in the state of florida cycles...
it will continue to do so throughout college football.
probably among those top 10 coaching gigs we talked about earlier. one of those teams will always be on top
There would be no Pac 10 if it wasn't for California
Look at Oregon’s roster. They went to the Rose Bowl this year with kids USC didn’t want(Aside from James and Blount who hardly played). Their fastest kid is from Riverside of all places! Texas still loses plenty of kids to OU (Adrian Peterson, Tommie Harris, and Mark Clayton) every year. Just like the state of Florida is the backbone of three in-state programs and has enough left over to help others as well.
Look at it this way: Three Pahokee kids are commited to Wake Forest. If any of them go to the NFL. It’s not really Wake who should get the credit, it’s the depth of the talent in Florida
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
check out this article (2008)
a lot of good points, but shows statistics for nfl players drafted by state, conference, etc.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-04-21-draft-database-cover_N.htm
1st three schools mentioned
Mater Dei) Matt Barkley and Matt Leinart’s old HS
Long Beach Poly) Willie McGinest and DeSean Jackson’s old school. And they “walked the dog” with Miami Northwestern last year with two Rb’s who couldn’t qualify to go to college
Sherman Oaks Notre Dame) Justin Fargas’ school
Hell, my gang infested HS (San Diego Lincoln) produced 2 super bowl MVP’s and the second most NFL players in the state (Behind Poly of course)
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
ive watched mater dei (and westchester) play basketball a few times at some tourneys, always a treat.
what’s strange is that neither any texas or cali school was consistently dominant in the 80s or 90s. obviously cali and texas always have sick talent, but why has it only emerged this past decade?
Compare California and Texas and how they view HS Football
Way different. California is just now starting to take HS football very seriously. While in the late 80’s Texas HS had artifical turf and 10,000 seat stadiums. In the state bowls games 8 of the 10 teams were private schools. So people are starting to take action.
Pete Carroll was a godsend because he recruited kids from Compton to Encino. He put pride back into USC and breathed life back into this state’s flagship university. So Texas has always backed their HS level sports(Southlake Carroll) while Cali had the talent but not the nurturing. I hope that changes and I think it will
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
You put ND over FSU?
I would flip flop them because of the chance a top kid gets into school. You can’t even take a borderline kid in ND because he is likely to flunk out.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
My tiers
Tier 1: USC/ Texas/ UF (no order)
Tier 2: Bama/LSU/Oklahoma/Ohio State/ FSU
Tier 3: UGA/Tennessee/Penn State/Notre Dame/ Michigan (in order)
Tier 4: Miami/ Oregon/ Oklahoma State/ Arkansas/ South Carolina/ Auburn/ Clemson/ Texas A&M/UCLA
Just had to put UCLA in there because I think they have a shot if they can get it together. They should really be the 2nd best team in the Pac 10.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
We're not in the 2nd tier. Not that kind of program.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Still don't see it. Hope so! Would take a ton more money. The clear #2 in our own state and we don't have OU type money
I mention OU because they are the #2 program in Texas.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Figured you meant that.
According to USA Today FSU is less than $10M behind both schools in terms of revenue for 07-08 (all athletic programs, not specifically football). Both schools have had pretty solid decades, whereas we didn’t. I’d imagine revenue would go up fairly considerably if we start winning the ACC consistently again.
I think you're gonna be blown away by RaysNNoles report after signing day
we’re holding it so it doesn’t impact recruiting.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
And are you saying USA Today is incorrect?
Or what? Because $10M doesn’t seem like much to overcome given this past decade.
not sure
I know this SEC deal is killing us
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm seeing the SEC gained about $5M/school/year
unless I misread this. And I was under the impression the ACC actually made more money per school than the SEC prior to the ESPN deal.
UF made 40 mill more in football revenue in 08
They spent 2 million less than we made
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I'm talking about being in his 2nd tier above,
not necessarily competing $ for $ with UF.
And fwiw, I think UF being a national title contender the past 4 years and us wallowing in our own mediocrity helped skew that data. Meyer having health issues and UF making a Miles-like hire (or even a Richt-like one: solid, but not elite) combined with Fisher winning the ACC consistently should shrink that gap (not saying we’d ever overcome it).
Was the disparity that big in 2000?
Disparity wasn't that big back then
We can def close the gap but UF will always have more $$ due to certain demographics. I don’t want to go into too many details at this point
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Will those details be in your article?
And if we can close the gap we can compete for national titles. All I need to know. Jimbo just needs to win.
We need to find a way to increase booster support.
I’m afraid FSU fans are now complacent( at least the older generations) because of past success and ACC wins wont excite them enough to buy back in.
class of 99
My thoughts/hope
With the kind of talent in Florida we can recruit enough to slip into the NC conversation the way OSU does. I guess there is less margin for error on the talent evaluation side than at other schools, but I feel there is more talent to fix the problem with than in Ga.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
AGREED!
I am fine with being the best 3rd tier program because a lot of the 2nd tier programs beat up on each other and make it hard to get to the NC.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Put it like this
I would rather be an 8 that fights mostly 7’s and 6’s than the 9 who has to fight other 9’s and 10’s.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Thats exactly why I said I'd like for the SEC to be strong
So UF’s road to winning the NC is that much tougher during the years we are righting our ship.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 19, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
But where do you think we fit if we take Miami’s talent. For example this year there are 49 4* and better in Florida. Lets say for easy math UF take 17 of those, we take 14 and the rest are split with the rest of the ACC and SEC. Wouldn’t that talent put us on equal footing with UGA and LSU since Ga produced 28 4* and better but doesn’t have their state on lock and La produced 12 4* and better.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
If Miami could be kicked from the 4th to the 5th tier,
I think we could move up to the 2nd.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
ND
The domers have so many problems money can’t fix though. They can’t win with their academic standards and will always have problem getting the talent in ND that they are used to from the early 90s.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
but their academics are within their control
They relaxed standards for Lou
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
But they aren't doing it
Instead they are insisting that they can keep them high and still win. It would take a change of heart from the President and Alumni on down for them to drop the standards.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 19, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Notre Dame is still pulling in good classes...
02 -24th
03 – 12th
04 – UR
05 – UR
06 – 8th
07 – 8th
08 – 2nd
09 – 21st
10 – 12th
Other than 04/05, those are all respectable classes, they’re problem is they’ve just had a string of coaches that weren’t good fits at ND and not developing the talent they were getting. I can’t imagine schools like Stanford, UNC, GaTech have any less standards.
Think about the program not how they are now with bad coaches
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
I can agree with
LSU, UGA and FSU either all being Tier 2 or Tier 3, but not splitting them. Shouldn’t LSU have the money to get rid of Miles? And maybe I’m projecting FSU’s revenue/resources 5 years down the road…
LSU and UGA can each dominate a state that is better than the #2 in Florida
and both have a ton more money than FSU.
Miles won a NC so he is hard to fire.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
And has since lost both coordinators of that team and no longer has a single recruit from Saban
and isn’t near as successful the last 2 years as his first 3. Perhaps he rights the ship, but I’m guessing he does not.
And can I get figures as to how much “a ton more money” is?
RaysNNoles will get them in like 3 weeks :)
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Saw that up above.
It’s just hard to make my point when I dont know what you’re basing yours on. Three weeks.
We were going to release it now
but i don’t want it used against us in recruiting, ya know? Above all, we’re all ’Noles
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Looking forward to the article
But couldn’t it be used against us in the future, i.e. after this NSD? Or are you anticipating this gap to be somewhat remedied by then?
Recruiting base keeps them out
can’t rely on national recruiting alone. That separates the 1st tier. Flip Meyer and Saban and Bama is probably 9-3 or 10-2 and UF is the best team of all-time.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
True but I don't see Bama doing anything but getting better and better.
I think that will draw in the recruits add to that the tradition and Bama to me is a 1st class program.
class of 99
Bingo
Bama has always had tons of money and not enough talent in state.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
UGA and LSU have better in-state talent and less competition for the talent
Saban would do better at LSU or UGA.. His tour at BAMA will be better than it was at LSU because he has improved as a coach.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
UT can get back to being a #2-4...
SEC Team. Right in the mix…but probably consistently behind the ‘big dog’ of any given year. Bama and UF #1-#1a…LSU fighting for #2…UT/UGa #3-4.
really?
CU would eject Dabo and immeditely elevate another assistant to HC? Even one who has already failed as an HC?
Interesting.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think youre understanding
No they wouldnt fire Dabo just to elevate Steele, not anytime soon.
I said that Steele can get a HC job somewhere else sooner if he stays at Clemson and builds the defense up, rather than go to UT and take another year to delay it by having to install his scheme all over again.
Oh, sorry.
My line of thinking was just traveling on the fact that Dabo will be gone in 2 years. :)
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 19, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised what Barnes does considering how his recruitment has been thus far.
Every time I hear his name, though, I think of the character Sgt. Barnes from the movie, ‘Platoon’
Barnes ain’t meant to die! The only thing that can kill Barnes is Barnes.
You're not kidding...
ACC needs Clemson to stay tough. And not get their assess kicked by South Carolina.
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Steele is a good coach...
But it seems like a lot of you are going overboard on how this will effect the Clemson and the ACC. The guy is definitely replaceable.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 19, 2010 7:09 PM EST reply actions
The implication that I am pushing,
is that Dabo is/was very lucky to have a coach of Steele’s caliber on staff, being that he is incompetent.
I think Steele is in a bit of a Catch 22, similar to what Jimbo faced here. Stay and prop up a regime that is clearly in over its head — but where you may be able to advance in a couple of years when this fact becomes apparent — or get the heck out of Dodge and avoid being dragged down by the sinking ship.
So it’s not entirely that Steele is so good, it’s the disparity in competence between him and his boss.
True
But Clemson had very good defense last year (elite, some would say), and if he were to leave now, it could possibly shake up recruiting.
Add those 2 together, and it makes for a tough situation for the Tigers.
However, from the looks of DrB’s comments, Steele may be staying with Dabo
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 19, 2010 7:24 PM EST reply actions
He's officially staying at Clemson.
So much for all of this jibba jabba.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 19, 2010 9:20 PM EST reply actions
Looks like
Steele is staying at Clemson and might have used the talk to get a nice counter-offer. Good for him.
"He went into this whole spiel about Shaolin monks or something like that, how we need to be like Shaolin monks and how they don't talk for 15 years and stuff." - Caz Piurowski about Coach Coley
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