ACC Defenses Loaded Again in 2010
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 9:28 PM EST
in FSU Football
114 comments
Everyone knows that the ACC produces more 1st round NFL defensive players and NFL defensive pro bowlers than any other conference. But come April, the draft should feature fewer ACC defenders. Why? An astounding number of draft-eligible juniors elected to return to school for 1 more season. Sure, Georgia Tech lost the best defensive end in the country, Derrick Morgan and All-ACC safety Morgan Burnett. But for the most part, the ACC is getting its to-be seniors back. Paired with some excellent up and coming juniors, the ACC's defensive talent blows every other conference away, almost to the point where the ACC's combined talent is greater than that of all the other conferences combined.
College Football News recently gathered a list of the top to-be draft eligible players for 2011 (the stars of the coming season). Here were the ACC's defenders:
Defensive Line
| Defensive End | Defensive Tackle |
| 1. Robert Quinn, North Carolina (Jr.) | 1. Marvin Austin, North Carolina |
| 2. Da’Quan Bowers, Clemson (Jr.) | 6. Marcus Fortson, Miami (Jr.) |
| 7. Allen Bailey, Miami | |
| 9. Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson | |
| 11. Tydreke Powell, North Carolina (Jr.) | |
| 12. Brandon Thompson, Clemson (Jr.) |
The top two defensive end prospects in the country reside in the ACC as do the # 1, 6, 7, 9, 11, and 12 defensive tackle prospects. This position is extremely junior heavy, but three of the defensive tackles bypassed the draft. Austin and Bailey were likely 1st rounders had they declared. The SEC and Big 12, thought to be the power conferences, aren't even close. But it's not all about the defensive line. The ACC is loaded in other areas as well
Linebacker
| Inside Linebacker | Outside Linebacker |
| 2. Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina | 1. Bruce Carter, North Carolina |
| 5. Alex Wujciak, Maryland | 2. Mark Herzlich, Boston College |
| 6. Barquell Rivers, Virginia Tech (Jr.) | 8. Nigel Bradham, Florida State (Jr.) |
| 9. Colin McCarthy, Miami |
The most notable name here is Herzlich, who was poised to be a top 10 pick in last year's draft. Despite being unquestionably the best or second best linebacker prospect, He chose to come back to school for the 2009 season and was almost immediately diagnosed with cancer. Under any normal circumstance he would be gone but after taking a merical-redshirt he will return for Boston College to help give the ACC one of the nation's best linebacker groups. To an even greater extent than the defensive line, the ACC got a huge boost from defenders electing to return for their senior years. Again, the SEC can't measure up. But the ACC has always produced great defensive backs and next year the conference is loaded there again:
Defensive Backs
| Cornerback | Strong Safety | Free Safety |
| 2. Kendrick Burney, North Carolina | 1. DeAndre McDaniel, Clemson | 1. Deunta Williams, North Carolina |
| 4. Ras-I Dowling, Virginia | 12. Marcus Gilchrist, Clemson | |
| 6. Rashad Carmichael, Virginia Tech | ||
| 7. Brandon Harris, Miami (Jr.) | ||
| 13. Charles Brown, North Carolina | ||
| 15. Cameron Chism, Maryland (Jr.) |
The ACC has 4 of the nation's best 7 cornerbacks and both the best strong and free safety prospects. The top 5 in this group all bypassed the draft in favor of returning for their senior years.
One final note here. It's very possible that Clemson and North Carolina could each have four 1st round draft picks on defense this season. In total those two teams combine for 13 of the 23 players on this list.
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why is that "nice"
??
Speak softly, and carry a big Spear
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 24, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Shows how talentless we were in the class of 2007.
Even the class of 2008 has something to prove as they are now upperclassmen. Only Datko, Sanders, Thomas, Dawkins and Bradham have earned their high praise. Fortson and Manuel have shown enough glimpse as to why they will be future stars, but the rest of the class still has something to prove, i.e. Parks, McCray, Williams (well aware he was hurt), Commack, Moody (played well at SS, but will probably move to OLB, so must once again prove himself).
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
and how talentless the d-line will be again w/ this recruiting class. nobody worth a shit except cummings & mcloud..
Question for FSUncensored:
Why do you think Jimbo retained Odell? He is a average recruiter and the d-tackle play the last several years has been average to below average. How’s that going to miraculously change in the coming years? It all starts from the inside out and unless the d-tackles play well, it doesn’t matter how many 4-5 star backers & d-backs you get. It is obvious where the good coaching has been to those that follow the team closely ie; o-line w/ Trick & QB w/ Fisher. Have not seen any sign of that from d-tackles for several years.
He has said before that he believes Jimbo might have put him on a year probation
and that he has to believe that Jimbo thinks he can coach, otherwise, he would not have retained him.
Correct me if Im wrong on that Bud.
I think O'Dell is a good coach
I also think he had some recruiting misses over the last 3 years, but last year’s crop was excellent and I have to question those who say this year is Cummings and nothing else, especially because Cummings is playing end.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
The other issue here is that we will no longer be losing players to academic attrition
gonna take an SEC approach here. Additionally, we lost that guy to the broken back and the DT to the NFL in the 5th round as a RsSO
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Dunbar and Guion, respectively.
Forgot about losing Dunbar. I guess both of those guys would have been gone this year, anyway, though… right?
That would have been a huge boost (literally and figuratively).
Nonetheless, our current situation really boils down to M. Austin and B. Thompson.
Relative to Odell’s role in the situation, I really blame JB for losing Austin, in particular, and probably both. Odell had done the work — identified the talent and gotten close to the kid over a long time — and we felt very good about him for quite some time. Then we get our butts handed to us against the likes of Wake Forest, and Butch Davis swoops in with exactly the ammo he needs to flip him to UNC. No way we lose him with a better overall outlook as a team.
Successive to that, Odell pulled in the big talents that he had identified/targeted — namely McCray, McDaniel, and McAllister. Seemingly came pretty close to pulling Gary Brown from UF, too.
Overall at the position, we really just ran into a perfect storm of overall program decline, injury, and early departure. Seems that we are on our way to climbing out of that pit with the 2009/2010 classes.
by arrdub on Jan 25, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It really does
and we got a kid who was considered better than Thompson in McCloud who will be a RsSo this year.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
arrdub great summary of the current situation
have wrote similar things about this very subject in the past but I think you sumed it up perfectly. Also Odell had John Brown locked up as well but FSU decided to back off because his grades were so bad and Marvin Austin committed to Odell face to face but got flipped by Butch and Blake the night before signing day.
What a coinidence!
Warchant just posted article on Odell & DT’s. Gene must be scanning these blogs!
Not much to write about this time of year
I spoke with someone about it and it’s not a ripoff of ours.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
He's been one of the best recruiters this year...
He was the lone defensive coach for awhile out there recruiting.
I’d rather evaluate Odell after he has worked with a new D staff.
I like the DL kids we have coming in.
Plus the guys we have coming back will be at least coached into a position to make a play unlike the last several years.
Progress came and took its toll,
And in the name of flood control,
They made their plans and they drained the land,
Now the glades are going dry.
And the last time I walked in the swamp,
I sat upon a Cypress stump,
I listened close and I heard the ghost,
Of Osceola cry.
I agree to an extent.
There’s very little depth. It’s still early, and look for us to finish strong as finally there is light at the end of the tunnel. With that said, if the class ended today with who we have, I completely agree. There just are too many question marks at this point to be satisified with how our D-Line depth and talent look.
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
Agree, what we really needed was UF's DL class,
..but, to say it’s “not worth a sh_t” is silly. Some very intriguing prospects besides those mentioned, and further, LOI’s aren’t signed yet. We’ve still got some big fish on the line.
mind your language please.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"
I think he was talking about...
someone using the very, very naughty “S” word. He’d better stay away from the sidelines during FSU games and practices. He’d hear worse. “Oh my”!
There are community guidelines that can be found here:
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/2/24/769702/tomahawk-nation-welcome-gu. If the link doesn’t work its on the homepage, top right.
If you have something to say you can reply directly to me, and not refer to me underneath someone else’s post.
I do hear worse. I hear it everyday, but that doesn’t mean its something I’d like to hear. I take it you are trying to make it sound like it’s weak to dislike cursing. If you think about that, I’m confident you will be able to understand how depraved that is.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"
Not to mention some of the underclassmen in the conference that are bound to break out
UNC has some sick young DE’s (Couples, McAdoo, Donte Paige-Moss) and I really like Oliver Vernon and Ray Ray Armstrong over at UM.
Yeah was just speaking in general terms about Armstrong
I also really like Reddick at UNC and I expect Harris from Mia to really step up this year. That true FR from Clem also looked pretty good last year as well, Blackman, I think.
SEC may be the most competitive conference,
but it is definitely the most over-hyped. Nice job of dispelling the myth. Maybe Jesse Palmer & Co. should change their tune to “looks like an ACC-style defense!”
ACC has comparable talent, but much worse coaching across the board. SEC gets the most out of their kids while they are in college.
disagree
ACC turns lesser recruits into studs. SEC recruits much better.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
look how many DL NC State has put out just by themselves.
Progress came and took its toll,
And in the name of flood control,
They made their plans and they drained the land,
Now the glades are going dry.
And the last time I walked in the swamp,
I sat upon a Cypress stump,
I listened close and I heard the ghost,
Of Osceola cry.
The SEC does recruit better, but I can’t agree with the idea that the ACC gets more out of their kids. Look at the assistant coaching salaries in the SEC compared to the ACC. They get the most out of their kids in college. A lot of ACC kids are drafted based on raw talent.
I think a lot of the SEC assistants are paid so much because they can recruit
How many SEC schools are outrecruiting Maryland, Duke, Wake, BC, etc, but produce less NFL players, specifically on defense. More northern type coaches in the ACC.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
How many SEC schools are outrecruiting Maryland, Duke, Wake, BC, etc, but produce less NFL players, specifically on defense.
I have no clue. I’d love to see the numbers, though.
I'd say quite a few just off the top of my head based on nothing but location and academic standards
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sure All SEC schools not named Vanderbilt outrecruit the aforementioned ACC schools. Over a significant amount of time, I can’t see the ACC schools outproducing anyone but Vanderbilt either, though.
Kentucky, Mississippi State, Arkansas, have not exactly been sending anyone to the NFL on the defensive side
I’m not saying BC will outproduce Bama
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know of a place that would have the numbers? I looked at the official NFL site, but they don’t have what we need.
Enrolled rankings effective since 2006 I believe
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
FSUncensored and gahnki
Here’s a handy draft link that may help. It should be bookmarked as it is extremely helpful. It shows picks by college and conference and someone could go through and actually compare picks and recruiting rankings if they had the time.
It should be noted on opening day the SEC had 263 players on NFL opening day rosters, while the ACC had 238 players although these are 2007 numbers. I would venture to say the SEC has better recruiting numbers overall, but the ACC definitely sends it’s share of players to the NFL. The SEC might pull in higher ranked kids, but I think the ACC brings in a better quality student athlete.
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
ugghh
here’s the link.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/draft-history-graphic.htm
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
by 1newplayer on Jan 25, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is another cyclical phenomenon (again) and I am sure my perspective is myopic,
…in that I’m probably weighing FSU’s circumstances more heavily than other teams, but the ACC’s M.O. has been nasty defenses and anemic offenses for quite a while. For much of the last decade, teams including FSU, Miami, NC State, VT, and Virginia were unloading NFL prospects on the defensive side of the ball with comparably much less talent/performance/development on the offensive side to complement.
Offense is what has given the ACC a bad name over the last decade. Its defenses have been on par with any other league in terms of talent and performance. I would agree with FSUn that this has been as much or more about development as raw talent, with Wake Forest’s multiple draft picks serving as the prime example.
Did you notice the size of their young DE's last year when we played them? they looked like tree's
All those guys were 6-6 6-7 with long ass arms. it was ridiculous. All their young LB’s were bigger than are upperclassmen.
Puts into perspective on what our offense put on them last year.
Progress came and took its toll,
And in the name of flood control,
They made their plans and they drained the land,
Now the glades are going dry.
And the last time I walked in the swamp,
I sat upon a Cypress stump,
I listened close and I heard the ghost,
Of Osceola cry.
Yeah UNC
should be very good on defense next year…..and the year after that. Wish some of those guys would have made the jump. Besides Florida and Oklahoma, UNC is the team that scares me the most next year. They probably think they should have whipped us this year and will want revenge for sure next season. They also will have most of their team back and intact.
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
I pray for Ponder to have a great day against Oklahoma when they play out here.
Sooner fans are an arrogant lot.
Progress came and took its toll,
And in the name of flood control,
They made their plans and they drained the land,
Now the glades are going dry.
And the last time I walked in the swamp,
I sat upon a Cypress stump,
I listened close and I heard the ghost,
Of Osceola cry.
I had a sick feeling during halftime of the UNC game. i was walking around the concessions area in a pretty bad mood.
It’s pretty remarkable what we did to wrestle back the game given their talent. This site did an incredible job of breaking it down.
We miss them on the schedule next year, right? I think we beat them, though.
by The K-Man on Jan 25, 2010 9:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah Kman
They are on the schedule next year. At home.
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
I aint skeeeeered!
Homer alert, but I feel we’ve got more room to grow from last year. I also feel Doak will become more of an advantage than a distraction going forward.
by The K-Man on Jan 25, 2010 11:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Offenses that execute can take advantage of any defense
Unless college Ds start “hiding” their coverages better (and not just zone blitzes), CP7 does a great job of pre-snap defensive alignment recognition, adjusting, choosing the optimal play and playside, and (if passing) finding the right route for passing. Plus, if things break down he can scamper. Though he gets hurt when he does that, so here’s hoping for execution.
Oh wait a minute...
I just took a look at their offensive rankings and they’re ridiculous. Ponder is ranked 12th, behind the likes of John Brantley, Jerrod Johnson, Nick Foles, and Colin Kaepernick (who?). Hudson is 1st at OG and 9th overall, but Ryan McMahon is 5th. Would anyone here consider McMahon a top-5 Center?
No kidding
does any one care to explain how ponder (who had better numbers than jimmy claussen) is behind brantley from florida? i mean really i know that guy has potential but thats it, he hasnt done anything yet…..as far as some of the other guys—- well i think they will get passed by ponder when he has another OUTSTANDING year….
by ValdostaNole on Jan 24, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah not too many centers available.
The best one is the guy at Penn State. Too early in the morning to remember his name.
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
Kaepernick
Without looking up stats. I wanna say he’s on nevada. I remember seeing em play. I wanna say he had 5 ints in one game. He’s basically a running qb that could throw a bit. I think he’s garbo
Edit: Labeled the LBs backwards
the Bruce Carter list is the OLB and vice-versa (currently have the Carter list as the ILB).
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
We project Gilchrist to be moved to Corner
and Rashard Hall to be a starting Sophomore at FS in 2010. Hall is so much better.
That's what Box125 says (saw him tonight)
Scary how much defensive talent Clemson and UNC have
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Here were the top 25 BCS conference defenses in my opinion
Alabama
Oklahoma
Iowa
Ohio State
Nebraska
Penn State
Florida
North Carolina
Texas
LSU
South Carolina
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Ole Miss
Clemson
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Miami-FL
Wisconsin
Tennessee
Arizona State
West Virginia
Purdue
Pittsburgh
Virginia
Some of those teams lose a lot, some not much.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 24, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Good god!
Imagine our offense coupled with UNC’s defense….Butch sure can recruit D players
Do we have North Carolina on the schedule for next year?
by RattlnSpear on Jan 25, 2010 8:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Too bad individual talent
doesn’t translate to total defense. In 2009 the ACC is 5th (out of 6) of the BCS conferences in total defensive yards allowed per play and per game. In other words, despite the individual talent, ACC defenses get shredded.
The Fisher era has begun!
Is that opponent adjusted?
As has been pointed out ad nauseum for our own team, it would seem that several ACC teams are notorious for biting off more than they can chew:
Wake v. Stanford
FSU v. BYU, USF
UM v. Oklahoma, TAMU
etc., etc.
No
You can’t adjust yards based on opponent strength (that I know of). Yes, ACC teams play some tough non-conference opponents, but SEC teams have the toughest SOS and they’re #1 in yards allowed per play and per game. The ACC’s sub-.500 bowl record doesn’t help us earn national respect (for our offenses or defenses).
The Fisher era has begun!
This can put it into some perspective
Average defensive and strength of schedule rankings per FEI
I don’t think anyone will argue too much that the SEC has the best defenses but to say ACC defenses get shredded is wrong.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
That does provide some context....
but I’m not really sure how to adjust defensive rank in light of SOS rank (def rank/sos rank?) In any event, its not clear how ‘best defensive player’ is defined in this post; I can only think that it’s mostly determined by the author’s personal judgment because, for example, Derrick Morgan was the only ACC defensive player who was 1st team All-Americans on any (of the many) All-American list (AFCA).
The Fisher era has begun!
Average vs. Median
NOTE: The above table was incorrect since I calculated the Big 10 having 10 teams instead of 11.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Oh well, not much insight into ACC. Can you do 25th and 75th percentiles? (Kidding.)
Interesting to see median vs. average SOS for PAC 10 and Big East. I guess this tells us they have a few teams playing absolutely craptastic schedules.
I basically divided the top defensive teams and the bottom in each conference and then ranked them
The Big 12 was really hurt by how bad their bottom teams were
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
This is useful and...
doesn’t reflect well for the ACC. Limited to the best teams, we’re only #4; the worst, we’re #5. Again, individual talent doesn’t result in good defense.
Returning to the thesis of this post, how is ‘best defensive player’ defined in this post? I’m sure you can look at D metrics, e.g., tackles (for loss), sacks, interceptions, etc., but the thesis of this post is inconsistent, for example, with 1st team All-American rosters. Derrick Morgan was the only ACC defensive player who was 1st team All-Americans on any (of the many) All-American list (AFCA).
The Fisher era has begun!
Of the best 25 defenses in the BCS conferences
Alabama
Oklahoma
Iowa
Ohio State
Nebraska
Penn State
Florida
North Carolina
Texas
LSU
South Carolina
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Ole Miss
Clemson
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Miami-FL
Wisconsin
Tennessee
Arizona State
West Virginia
Purdue
Pittsburgh
Virginia
The ACC has 6
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Best defensive player is kept constant and defined in the link in the original post
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Right
Because last year the ACC was nasty in the draft and this year they will not be.
Very strange “down” year for ACC defenses, despite having 6 in the top 25.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Factor in raw numbers with SOS and we're not as bad as you think
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
UNC and Clemson at home in 2010
One final note here. It’s very possible that Clemson and North Carolina could each have four 1st round draft picks on defense this season. In total those two teams combine for 13 of the 23 players on this list.
I’d say good thing we’ve got them at home this year, but we’ve been anything but holding court at home for half a decade now.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 25, 2010 9:22 AM EST reply actions
Fortunately both Clemson and UNC have inept offensive staffs and head coaches that seem fairly adept at botching big games.
I expect UNC to improve a little bit on “O” over last year, but Butch isn’t called “Botch” by UM fans for no reason. Great recruiter/program builder, but not the best game manager or decision maker.
Dabo is… well… Dabo… unless they’ve made some shake-ups on staff that I’m not aware of, I think their offense will be horrible next year.
Did anyone happen to look on the offensive side of the ball
Why is everyone on John Brantley’s jock so much? I hype up UF as much as anyone but the kid hasn’t played 1 meaningful down in his career and is somehow the 4th best QB prospect with Ponder the 12th.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I don't know how he can be above Ponder
Haven’t seen enough of Brantley to be comfortable evaluating him, but FSUn thinks he’s very good
>>---l>
FSUn thinks he's better than Chollie
…which is a bit loco to me… but I agree the kid is a rare talent.
I think he will be the SEC's best QB by a lot
but I wouldn’t take him over Ponder
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
He's going to go very high in the draft
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
but why? I haven’t watched a ton of him but I haven’t been much impressed. He’s not bad by any means but I had him pegged as a 2nd to 3rd rounder. Is it a Kyle Boller type of thing where he has all the measureables?
Better than Mallet, too?
Only watched him vs. UF and parts of 1-2 other games (Auburn, UGA maybe?), but that kid looks like he can play.
Yeah Brantley's arm isn't quite as insane but he throws a much better ball and is very accurate and natural
by Bud Elliott on Jan 25, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
yea johnny b is a very good qb
played against him in high school, but his biggest downfall will be his fear of contact, the kid is afraiddddd of that, when the pocket breaks down he gets happy feet and thats where we need to beat him, we have to get him rattled, and we definitely have the weapons for intimidation (mr.bradham). it all gonna be about pressure vs uf next year, if our d-line can step up florida is very winnable.
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
Not sure if y'all saw this stuff
Original 80 selections for Pro Bowl – ACC led with 17 selections.
ACC had more defensive draft picks than the Big 10 since 2006 Draft including 3 pro bowlers from those picks. I need to update that article since we’ve got some new guys like D’Brickshaw and Brandon Meriweather.
I guess the atmosphere that I've tried to create here is that I'm a friend first and a boss second, and probably an entertainer third.
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