Thoughts on Linebacker Depth and Recruiting
by Bud Elliott on Jan 26, 2010 1:07 AM EST
in FSU Football Recruiting
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PrintThis is the second in a series on filling needs. Defensive line was discussed last Friday.
What is the need at linebacker? Why does FSU have that need? Is FSU addressing those needs?
As discussed in the defensive roster review, as a 4-3 team FSU should look to carry 11-13 linebackers in any given year. And those linebackers should be spread between all levels of eligibility.
FSU graduated two linebackers in Dekoda Watson and Recardo Wright. Aaron Gresham and Maurice Harriss are basically locks to receive medical hardship scholarships, meaning they will no longer play due to injury but will finish their education.
| Kendall Smith (sr) |
| Mister Alexander (Rs) (sr) |
| Nigel Bradham (jr) |
| Nigel Carr (jr) |
| Vince Williams (rs) (so) |
FSU returns only 5 scholarship linebackers. That is not a good situation. How did FSU get into this mess? The two medical hardships don't help, but losing two guys should not kill a unit. The major problem here is that FSU failed to bring in a single linebacker in last year's class. Yes, they did bring in C.J. Mizell, but he had huge character and academic issues. Predictably, Mizell failed to qualify. The failure wasn't in relying on the long-shot Mizell, but in failing to bring in two other linebacker recruits. That was a huge mistake. I don't want to dwell on the past, but there are reasons why some coaches are no longer with the program. FSU played the 2009 season with only 9 scholarship linebackers. The situation is dire. There is a chance that safety Nick Moody (6'1" 235 lbs) might switch back to linebacker.
What is FSU doing anything to remedy the situation? I asked the Tomahawk Nation recruiting team.
Like defensive line recruiting, the dearth of linebackers is unlikely to be remedied in one recruiting class. But here is FSU's current crop of FSU linebacker recruits:
| Jeff Luc (EE) |
| Nigel Terrell |
| Holmes Onwukaife |
| Telvin Smith |
Note that Luc graduated high school early and enrolled at FSU in early January. That is a tremendous help to recruits looking to play early. FSU has one of the best groups of linebacker recruits in the country. And it could get better by adding Christian Jones or Shaydon Akuna, two highly regarded backers.
Assuming FSU adds one more linebacker to the class, that would put FSU at 10 scholarship backers. That's just outside the acceptable range. FSU graduates two players after the 2010 season and assuming maximum attrition of 1, the 'Noles look to be in good shape as long as they bring in 4-6 linebackers in the next recruiting cycle.
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We've speculated on this
It comes down, IMO, to whether Stoops likes his SS to play like a 4th LB (a la Mickey’s old scheme) or more of a centerfield type. Moody’s certainly big enough and mean enough to play LB.
yeah..i don't know too much abt stoops system
but im under the impression that mickey’s rover scheme is more of a thing of the past and that stoops likely won’t use it
plus we seem to have depth issues and lb, and potentially overcrowding at db, so the move seems logical to me on three levels..
Think Telvin Smith goes to UGA...
which sucks, but if FSU lands C. Jones and everyone else committed, it is a great class.
No. 55 is just speculating
UGA is definitely a threat, but no decision has been made yet.
We lucked out on linebacker injuries last year.
Granted the 2 aforementioned players (Gresham and Harris) were lost to injury, but none of the main contributors were felled.
As TN discussed during the summer, the lack of linebacker depth affects more than just the defense. You typical run out young backers on special teams coverage units. Having our starting DE (White), along with fellow D-lineman like Toshmon and Jamar Jackson covering kicks was less than optimal.
As bad as our D was last year (BAD), we actually lucked out with fairly good health for the second straight year.
The DLine situation is and has been code red, but the LB predicament would be the headliner on a normal Nole team. Only returning 5 players, with one of them coming off a serious back injury? Thank goodness the offense has supplemented itself well the past 2 classes or we’d have some REALLY tough choices to make in this class.
I was actually interested to see how Maurice Harris fared over a full season. The very limited duty he saw last year wasn’t bad if I recall correctly (note: small sample size, and relatively speaking).
by The K-Man on Jan 26, 2010 1:35 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Looking ahead
There is a chance FSU loses Nigel Bradham (good chance if he has a solid year) and possibly a chance of Nigel Carr as well if he gets enough PT and shows he can play. So FSU really has to load up now if they can.
Not Convinced about Carr
Dude is super high energy which i love but don’t have a ton of trust in him yet. 9 schollys doesn’t even tell the whole story at Vince was out from day 1 leaving essentially 6 LB’s that were heathy and could play on scholly
"You play to WIN the GAME"
I would think
Carr would have to 1) actually tackle someone in a game and 2) crack the starting lineup to be drafted. The NFL doesn’t draft cheerleaders. I saw a show on TV about it. You tryout to be a cheerleader and you have to be damn sexy to make it. Don’t know how Carr fares in that area.
Whew...I thought that I was missing something abour Carr
I just don’t remember seeing him on the field very much in 2009. If anyone can remember games/times where he’s was on the field, that would be sweet. I’d like to take a quick look
by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 26, 2010 1:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He was on the field for the GT game
Picked up the fumble late in the game and started to run with it only to have Nesbitt take it back from him. :(
I like Carr and I like his enthusiasm but I’m not sold on him as a starting LB yet.
As great of an athlete as Bradham is
unless Hudson works wonders on him and the rest of the LB corps this year, I don’t see him getting drafted very high simply because his play up until now has been marred by bad schemes. He makes himself look good despite that, I can’t imagine what he would look like in a defensive scheme set up to lets its players succeed the way we all hope ours will in the future
I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men.
You could have said similar things about players like Timmons, but NFL teams late in the first round have no problem drafting on potential.
exactly
And I meant if they both had good years. It only takes one good year and potential. The name slips my mind, but there was a defensive linemen a couple of years back that had not been a big contributor, who opted for the NFL (even though it was not first round) over returning for his senior year with the Noles. He would have definitely been a starter had he returned and could have pushed his draft status forward, but whether he just wanted money right away, did not think he could keep his grades up, etc he went pro.
Nigel Carr ain’t going nowhere…he hasn’t proven anything! If if he has a great year, there’s no chance he leaves
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill
by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 26, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
If we bring in Christian Jones
We’d have 2 5* LBs and 2 4* LBs (Smith and Terrell are ESPN150 players)
I’d say that is plenty of talent
Plus considering that besides Mister
The other 4 LBs on the roster were all Rivals 250 players AT LEAST, Hudson sure will have plenty to work with.
I think we are adding both Akuna and Jones to this class
That would add 6 and bring our group to 11. Moody can be moved to full-time backer to bring us to 12. I don’t really like leaving a lot of inexperienced guys in the defensive backfield at the same time. I could see Moody moving to backer on passing downs while bringing Jones up to pass rush. That would give us an awful lot of speed on passing down without losing much size.
With the spped in our defensive backfield, I can also envision a healthy mix of cover 2 while our young guys are learning the zone reads. With Jenije, Harley, Parks, G5, Joyner, Dorsey, T-Rex, Allen, Alexander, the slowest guy runs a 4.4. Add Harris’s coverage ability and they should hold up fine in cover 2. Maybe the best way to break in the new system and confuse opposing QBs is to give a healthy mix of man and zone and force the opposing QB to read what’s going on.
Also, moving Moody to LB with Bradham creates an ideal situation for CB & S blitzes, where we could drop Jones or Moody into deeper coverage, where either could line up at one position and drop back 1 level into coverage.
Also with Moody at LB on passing downs we could possibly have someone who can cover a RB coming out of the backfield or even the opposing teams TE.
Wouldn’t that be something.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
You're right, what was I thinking. My bad.
The jump pass is also impossible to defend. Unless of course we tackle the TE coming off the line and pray for no penalty.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Frank it's funny you should mention that...
I’ve been hearing rumors that Stoops actually has a defensive package that covers the tight end. I’m thinking it just might be crazy enough to work.
NoleLaw, I’m inclined to agree with you re: moving Moody to LB. I think if we can take some (or all, as the case may be) of the responsibility off of the safeties to stop the run; then I will be a lot more comfortable with playing young DB’s.
I’m convinced that the combo of good recruits and good coaching will pay off in the long run. But as far as next season, I flip flop from wild excitement to utter panic. A couple of injuries to key players, and we’re gonna be asking CP7 & Co. to put up 50+ per game to be competitive.
by mountain renegade on Jan 26, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think we'll be fine
if we keep out current commits and add C Jones. Akuna would be the icing on the cake (although I strongly doubt we will come here).
I've heard that Holmes O. plans to redshirt this year.
by The K-Man on Jan 26, 2010 8:32 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yea, to mature and get bigger.
He could likely grow out of LB and into an awesome DE. In the films, he is a beast of a pass rusher from the outside.
Did you know that Mister A had the second most sacks (5) on the team, despite not starting one game.
He was also #4 on the team in TFL with 6.
I find this interesting, yet sad.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Well he was brought in on obvious, obvious passing downs and told to go to town
So the numbers are not that hard to come by when that’s your sole purpose in life.
What is C. Jones waiting on?
Any chance we dont land Christian? I want’ bruisers at the LB position. Chuck was worried about speed speed speed. We need a speed yes but damn I want a Mike LB that brings fear into the O line when he blitzes up the middle. I want OLB’s that blitz so fast and hard off the edge they can intercept a toss sweep. I want punishment from our LB’s. I think Greg is going to preach this shit! Kill everybody let the paramedics sort em out!
by 3rdandManageable(VicVanBuren) on Jan 26, 2010 11:37 AM EST reply actions
Little help= "Kill everybody let the paramedics sort em out!" and at the same time , on offense, keep it 3rd and Manageable. ;-)
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Jan 26, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I too
long for a return to the day when offenses regularly face either 2nd and 14 due to tackle for loss or 2nd and 10 due to stop or incomplete. Last season was constant 2nd and 2………and impossible to bear.
Luc will probably see quite a bit of PT in 2010, as would Jones. The EE of Luc, as mentioned, is a big help.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Jan 26, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe move Bradham to Mike
and let Moody, Williams, & Carr handle the outside duties. Can spell Bradham by bringing in the Haitian Hurricane to bring the fear up the middle.
Who would you trust to play the SAM position?
I’m kinda nervous about not having Bradham there because the strongside end may lack size as well.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 26, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Guys on TheRinger
saying UF has albeit given up on Jones as a lost cause and that he might not take the USC visit after all. With NCAA violations coming for USC, it’d be stupid to go there IMO. Hopefully Christian & Willie Sr. are smarter than that.
Thanks for doing this FSUn
What we’re seeing so far (and the DBs are gonna be the same) is a D that is completely rebuilding in every phase, not trying to fill some holes. That’s why I don’t think you see much improvement in results next yr. Better schemes and conditioning are gonna get us headed in the right direction, but it will be the 2nd yr before we start to really see results. Think Saban’s first yr at Bama and Jimbo’s first yr with our decimated O which was very comparable to what Stoops faces w/ this D. As others have pointed out, our upperclassmen, in general, can’t compete physically against a UF, while our underclassmen and recruits, while they are better athletes, are gonna get burned from being inexperienced by a UF. Add to that lack of depth, which takes its toll both during games and as the season progresses.
For example, I see only 3 upperclassmen, Bradham, Dawkins, and Moody, that are comparable physically to what UF puts on the field. And you confound their “experience” benefits by possibly moving Moody to LB and Dawkins, hopefully, finally getting to play his natural position of SDE. BTW I agree w/ both of those moves to maximize production in 2011.
While I don't see our D
moving into the top 50, I do expect a fairly decent improvement simply because there is just no way that we’ll give up even 50% of the 40+ yard plays we gave up last year.
Those plays were backbreakers and momentum killers.
I know someone has the # of plays over 40 we gave up and its some ridiculous number – nearly as large as the national deficit.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Jan 26, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
The only place where we might be physically out-matched by UF is on our DL
That will improve under Viloria. Our guys are young and growing.
I'm concerned about the size out our front four
Thats why I believe Moody should play on the weakside in a rotation with Carr and Alexander. Bradham is the only guy I trust to shed blockers, so he should be at SAM. I think Luc and Williams would provide a good 1-2 punch in the middle, while Kendall patrols the bench. At one point (2005-06 I believe) Our backers were 230 (Timmons) Davis (225) and 211 (Hayes). You simply cannot expect to win that way.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 26, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
are those 3
in the NFL?
Timmons, Davis and Hayes were all very good LBs. I don’t think Bradham has matched any of their performances (yet). I do think he can match or even exceed it though with better technique and coaching. Carr will improve alot as well. Too talented not to.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Jan 26, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
All three were good players
But like Sims, all of them (except Davis) became better in the professional ranks. Hayes couldn’t even put on weight at FSU. Bradham is on track to be better than all of them with proper coaching IMO.Moody to me is even further along than Carr since he sees the field on a consistent basis. If he can play rover at 235, he should be able to play the WILL backer position without much difficulty. Carr should be one of Viloria’s pet projects, Moody has sufficent size already
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 26, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I predict next year, Hayes leads the Bucs in tackles….he came on strong as he got more PT.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill
by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 26, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's difficult to compare the at this point...
With Thacker on the field, our LB’s are basically contending with an extra blocker (albeit a blocker who is facing the wrong direction). Timmons, Davis, and Hayes had a much better DL in front of them.
by mountain renegade on Jan 26, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1000
I’ve been trying to hit this point home for a while.
LB (especially MLB) production is highly contingent upon DT play. Dominant interior line play frees up MLB to attack the ball carrier unencumbered. Think Ray Lewis in Baltimore. Always great DT play in front of him. Or Derrick Brooks at Tampa. Those are 3 positions that are highly interconnected in terms of production.
And to continue the thought,
DT’s deal with double teams way better than LB’s.
by mountain renegade on Jan 26, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
And they played different positions.
Lewis played in the middle while Brooks played outside. Shade Tree would be the better comparison to Lewis. But the point is taken that they all had D-linemen in front of them who could keep them clean to make plays.
probably the funniest post of the week so far...
(time to step up mattd and spettman)
If your talking about Buster Davis
He was closer to 235-240
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
He was also 3'7'' and had webbed fingers.
True story.
by MattDNole on Jan 26, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also had absolutely NO IDEA what a green non-contact jersey meant.
If a QB was going to get killed in a spring game, it was Buster Davis that would do the killin’.
He was tall enough
to make the snatch against troy and save us from embarressment
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jan 28, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
You think
mister, carr and smith start at UF? How bout Parks, Jenije and Allen? this D will be like UF’s 3 yrs ago when they had all the young studs that became their dominant D the last 2 yrs, but simply weren’t very good that yr. that team went 9-4 (8-5?) with Tebow and Harvin.
Moody should be the starter at the weakside position definitely
Carr and Alexander both weigh 225 or less. The thoughts of them being on the field for an appreciable amount of time frightens me. Man,they couldn’t run scout D for UF. If Christian Jones does indeed go to Tally, he can take reps from both of them on 3rd down as a blitzer. Don’t know if this will happen, but hopefully Harris and G5 will man the corner spots
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 26, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Carr and Alexander both weigh 225 or less.
Both will be substantially bigger by next season after spending time with Viloria and a nutritionist. I expect both to be around 235.
I have become a convert
on the Moody to WLB move. I originally opposed in order to have some experience at S, but I think we set this D up for 2011. We have a lot more depth and talent at DB so go ahead and move him. he might be the best tackler on the team already as far as angles and wrapping up so it only makes sense for him to be at LB.
what do you guys that promote Carr
see there? Is it strictly HS hype? I can’t remember him making a tackle in his career. Obviously, he has, but my point is that none were memorable. I actually remember Mangum making a crucial tackle against MD or Wake. Not saying he is a Mangum, but then again, I don’t know that he isn’t. He was the 4th LB this yr so he got substantial PT. I think Mister is actually much closer to really contributing. He did have a couple of huge sacks. basically sealed the NCST game. I keep waiting for Carr to give me some reason to believe.
he had a sweet fumble recovery that he immediately fumbled right back against g tech
but i do see their point – he has great physical abilities, incredible enthusiasm and seems very coachable
and given the absence of coaching last year, and the remedy to that problem this year, it is very reasonable to expect great things
imo
by 000111 on Jan 26, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well keep in mind that he had absolutely no coaching.
I just like his energy and passion for the game. It really isn’t anything that he has done, I just believe under Hudson he can flourish.
FSU should be carrying a lot more than 10 LBs.
We absolutely must have 6 commitments at that position this year.
\Definitive
You should have made the statement
FSU is not carrying more than 10 LBs.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Cooley
I just read his twitter..who is he recruiting in the 860?
That's Connecticut
Probably working on Bjoren Werner and stopping in to say hi to Tye.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
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