FSU Doesn't Have the Money of the Other Big Schools?
by alexnole on Jan 31, 2010 11:11 PM EST
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In a recent article i read on here titled HOW HIGH CAN FSU'S RECRUITING CLASS CLIMB, im trying to figure out why FSUncensored said FSU doesn't have the money of the other big schools.
For one last i checked according to enrollement numbers we have the 21st biggest college in America. FSU'S enrollement is at 39,973. Now you said FSU was small in comparison to Texas, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Miami, Clemson and USC. All those schools are smaller than FSU except for Texas and Florida.
The reason i bring this up the bigger the enrollement the more boosters we should have. Since when has FSU not had money to support a football team compared to the above mentioned teams. I do think our boosters held on to their money for last few years due to the nepotism era, but i gaurantee you we were spending as much money if not more than anybody during our dynasty era and it will start again under Jimbo Fisher.
Lets compare head coaches salaries. Bobby Bowden is the 12th highest paid coach in college football at 2.5 million dollars for 2009. Now i will say that is lower than all the big schools you compared FSU to except for Randy Shannon at 1.5 million, but our boosters were paying 2.5 million for somebody that wasn't coaching at all. Your telling me that once all the boosters are on board and Jimbo Fisher starts winning the ACC and starts competing for national championships that we can't pay our coach more than anyboby in the country.
My point is that FSU has as much money as every other big school its just that in the recent past our boosters were not going to waste their money on an inferior product, but as i'm being informed most if not all of the big money boosters are now on board so lets stop acting like FSU isn't a big player in college football. Remember we were the first school in college football to pay their head coach 1 million dollars, when in 1995 FSU paid Bobby Bowden that amount to obviously make him the highest paid coach in college football.
So in conclusion, not only do we have the enrollement numbers but we have one of the larger stadiums in college football thus more ticket sales and more money for athletics. We can outspend any school if we just start winning and the boosters will then spend the money. We have just as many boosters as all the other big schools with a couple of exceptions but there is no reason not to spend the money as long as we win. Remember we set the bar with having the highest paid coach in college football. With winning again comes money and more new boosters and maybe even some of the old ones that left during Jeff's time here. SEMINOLE NATION WILL RISE AGAIN!
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I don't have the time to explain it all
but we’re not even close. RaysnNoles has an article we’ll run after signing day on the subject.
Nice enthusiasm but
you need to read the article that will be posted after signing day. We have a long, long way to go.
Big Fan of Big Spear Diplomacy
I agree with the others
basically we have a ton of students, fans, and alumni. . .
But a HORRIBLY LOW percentage of them are boosters.
Think about it like this.
School A has a base of 100,000 with a booster percentage of 75%. that’s 75,000 people giving money.
School B has a base 200,000 with a % of 25%. That’s 50,000 people giving money.
So while School B has MANY MORE people as acitve fans, alumni, etc., they still need 50% more fans to match the smaller schools in terms of money.
I’m sure that the article FSUn is referring will be more in-depth, but I just wanted to fill in the basics if I could. By the way, FSU is school B. . . or worse. Seriously.
by freshcollegeboy on Feb 1, 2010 12:57 AM EST reply actions
Not to mention
You also have to factor in merchandising, we sell less gear than UF, Texas, USC etc, bowl money, conferences with at large BCS births split more money, and tv deals, the Big 10 and SEC are crushing us on TV revenue. Even if we had the exact same booster support as UF and Texas we would still behind in revenue because we spent a decade losing.
by osceolafan850 on Feb 1, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
Last I looked
UF was going to have a 13.5 million dollar jump from the ESPN contract. That is significant money.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Can you provide a link?
This is from an AJC article:
Conservatively, SEC schools expect to see their annual shared revenue jump from about $11 million per school to over $16 million per school per year.
FSU needs an apparel makeover
The dated, dull color scheme that NIKE uses for FSU is simply awful. I haven’t bought FSU fan gear from NIKE in years….that dark maroon color is hard to stomach.
I have to disagree
I couldnt imagine us anyother color but G&G. And if im not mistaken nike released the FLY gear. I saw a kid at the Gator Bowl wearing one of the jerseys. I asked himwhere he got it from and he said Bills online….
are you kidding me???
colors are awesome. better than orange.
He's not talking about changing garnet and gold.
He’s talking about ONE garnet color and ONE gold color. You ever notice the 10 different shades of each on game day?
I remember in the 90s
we were always #1, #2 or #2 in apparel/merchandise sales with Notre Dame, Michigan and/or Miami. I think once we start winning again those sales will be back up.
FSU and UF have the same amount of Boosters yet they donate 3X as much
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
It has more to do with the age of FSU
FSU didn’t become FSU till the boys were allowed in back in ’47. Schools like AU, FU, Tex ect have 40, 50, 60+ years of history, booster and money on FSU. Thats several generations of boosters making money and donating money.
Also, one of the characteristics that makes FSU so nice, its ratio of female to males also plays a part. When I was there it was 3 to 1 (not sure what it is now). And I know the ladies can be fans, but when it comes to being die-hard buying season tix and throwing money at the athletic program fans…the ladies not so much.
What FSU does with the money it has is actually quite remarkable.
Gripper
Texas is very well endowed
They have a TON of old Texas oil money. Of course, that is spread University wide, but if they need a facility, they can get it.
As for the other universities that have been around awhile, they probably get regular inheritance money as their old alumni die off. We’re really only sixty years old, so we haven’t really gotten to that point yet.
Fatal aasumption flaw:
Higher enrollment = high number of boosters.
This is so far from the truth, it’s sad. FSU has the potential to be up there with the Floridas, Bamas, and USCs of the world but it hasn’t happened yet.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
Exactly.
If you were going by enrollment, UCF would be a powerhouse rollin in the dough.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I stand correct on Florida then.
Although they do have a leg up in dollars with all those championships recently. =/
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Feb 2, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
It's Not the Raw Number of Alumni...It's its Demographic (Composition)
Good observations. But it’s more important to see what’s happening inside the raw alumni numbers… This makes FSU’s resurgence against the headwinds of this financial handicap and enthusiasm-gap, caused primarily from the “missing” decade, all the more impressive. FSU’s relatively late historical start, and their high percentage (still) of women to men, puts us at a financial disadvantage, but not necessarily, at a commensurate disadvantage on the field. (Case in point…UM built their 80’s dynasty on a shoestring budget and with an extraordinarily weak alumni base.)
And what would happen, God forbid, if one of our lovely FSU women alums happens to marry an ol’ boy from FU…(keep it real) there goes the chance for a significant FSU contribution. UF certainly has no significant winning history to draw from. Simply, by just being in the game, UF has much more old guard wealth then the Nole Nation, and these “Ol’ Boys from F-L-O-R-I-D-A” now have the means to donate larger gifts and endowments (from their deceased). I think everyone could agree that the key for us is to regain, then maintain, a competitive stature on the field. A winning product on the field will improve the balance sheet to a significant degree. While we can’t control the demographics, that piece will work itself out over time.
Almost all your assumptions about money are incorrect...
the size of the school means little.
It is about the makeup of your alumni base (are they wealthy? Or just mostly middle class). The better academically your school is….the more wealth that school will have. That is why academics DO MATTER.
Do they donate? Generally, folks who go to private schools are wealthy and are raised and taught to give back and in a big way to charities….public school folks, not so much.
University wealth is ALL about endowments. This is key. FSU’s is almost non existant. Schools like Texas, Michigan, UVA, even UF all have endowments in the BILLIONS.
Some schools understand the importance of private fundraising. FSU held their first capital campaign only about 20 years ago. FSU is VERY late to the game in fundraising and even now does a HORRIBLE job of fundraising. FSU has had about 3 Foundation presidents in 3 years.
FSU and it’s fans think you can be rich athletically but be poor academically. Usually doesn’t happen. In other words, you better have ambition in ALL areas if you want to be a wealthy school.
I could write MUCH more on this, but just too lazy, but FSU is VERY poor compared to it’s competitors.
love'em or hate'em
TK did a tremendous job trying to catch FSU up in the private funding to the university. But you are right. We are still way behind.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 1, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, TK was a trainwreck with fundraising....
The FSU Foundation all but fell apart under him. FSU’s endowment ranking fell from 128 when he started to 135 when he left (so FSU lost ground). He cost FSU $18 Million in endowment money during his tift with Dr Holton. Not to mention another $11 Million donation. I could go on and on, but without QUESTION, FSU COST FSU tremendously with private fundraising. He was HORRIBLE at it.
One of the biggest myths ever at FSU was that TK was a good fundraiser….he was even an average one.
He was good with the smoke and mirrors
but, in the end, we would be underwhelmed by the reality of the falling numbers
He was a good fundraiser...
like Amato was a good recruiter. We always heard about it on the internet….but the reality of the situation didn’t back it up.
Since I don't believe anyone, ever-
I looked it up myself. It appears that you are right for the most part. To say the FSU Foundation all but fell apart with him at the helm, is a pretty big stretch. In fact the net worth of our endowment had a steady increase over his tenure until this year when almost every institution realized a decline (University of Buffalo up 91%!?!? maybe they invested all of their money in gold..or conflict diamonds. Crazy).
Florida State Foundation lost about 160 million net worth (having reached 570 million). Decline in investments and market value wrecked us causing a huge net loss even though we were still taking in donations. We weren’t the only losers. Michigan lost a cool 1.5 billion (yes with a B) in net worth. Harvard lost 11 billion. Take that ivy leaguers. Like I said almost every institution lost a big chunk from last year. From what I read, the values of university endowments have recovered a bit along with the market and don’t look AS bad as they did when these numbers were compiled.
So let’s put things in perspective. FSU didn’t fair nearly as well as I thought they did under TK. Let’s go to the numbers and compare our hated foes down south.
2002 UF Endowment-583.4 million
2009 UF Endowment-1.01 Billion (2008 high of 1.25 billion)
2002 FSU Endowment-325.1 million
2009 FSU endowment-409.7 million (2008 high of 570.7 million)
There has to be a reason we are getting that destroyed. While UF realized a 73% increase FSU only had a 26% increase. Even if UF is out investing FSU that cannot be the only reason we are doing so poorly. Feel free to use these numbers to convince others of TK’s lack of fund raising ability. I know I will. Note TK took over as president in 2002.
If everyone saw this I’m guessing there would be a lot more ’hate’ems."
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Would be interesting to see
how the contributions differed between FSU and UF over those years? For instance, were the majority of UFs endowment gains attributed to increased market value of the underlying securities (i.e. what they were invested in) or a large amount of contributions, or a combination of both? I think they would be helpful to see the discrepancy in annual contributions between the two schools rather than just total market value of the endowment. Not saying this is the case (and I’m very doubtful it is) but perhaps UF got lucky on a couple investments whereas we go hammered. The real eye opener may be just exactly how much more in contributions they are bringing in each year than FSU is.
Those numbers have been harder to find.
Especially for UF. I’m sure they are out there in a public document somewhere. From the one year I looked at (2009) I think I remember it being UF well over 5 ot 6 times more money for the year in donations (not to the football program but to academics).
I would imagine that two instate schools don’t invest those type of funds drastically different. Could be completely wrong. I would like to see a side by side too. Unless someone else already has a side by side or the info, I can see if I can find the numbers to put something together.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Yes, everyone is losing money...
that is why I bring up the endowment ranking. Because that is a level field comparison. FSU went from 128 to 135 under him (albeit an up and down ranking situation). So that negates the ‘everyone lost money’ argument.
And honestly, FSU should always be rising. A bad president would have FSU rising slowly….let alone having FSU fallen.
Having 2-3 presidents for the FSU Foundation in as many years…..and from what I know, the FSU Foundation is a mess. NO excuse for that.
Could be debated forever, but bottom line is TK was NOT a good fundraiser.
Did you read the whole comment?
I agreed that he obviously wasn’t as good as advertised.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
A HUGE 'reason FSU is getting destroyed' is the culture of FSU...
this is a big point most at FSU don’t get or understand. Again, I could write for days on this but I will summarize.
*FSU does not understand the importance of fundraising. At least not to the level it should be….and any change in this is VERY recent…if at all. IE, EVERY Dean, VP, and president should be required to fundraise. If they don’t…they are fired. FSU’s new president has this in his contract, but FSU is about 3-4 decades behind here…..and I have seen little to indicate Deans and VPs are being pushed here. Don’t fundraise? Bye Bye.
*Priorities. I have heard FSU has had issues with the Boosters (athletics) and Foundation (academics) fighting over donors instead of working together. This is due to FSU not having it’s priorities straight (TK was hired because he was football friendly). In the end, this has hurt academics AND athletics. You can’t have the tail wag the dog and be successful.
*General PR. FSU sucks at it and when FSU sucks at football….it’s alumni take little pride in the school compared to our competitors. FSU needs to push pride in the WHOLE school, not just a football team. Also, fire anyone associated with PR at FSU…they suck.
CULTURE...BOOM...HAMMER TO NAIL.
UF has that arrogant, better than you (even when ’we’re’ not) “brag” culture. Now, I don’t want to be the arrogant pi**ants they are, but we definitely don’t have enough (any) pride. That’s one thing our new president, Dr. Barron, repeatedly mentioned in his interview. And on top of that, his salary is based off of how much he raises for the university. I forget how much his base salary is (maybe $300K or so), but he gets an additional $100K for every $100M he raises for the school. FSU is in the beginning of a $1B fundraising campaign. If we want FSU to be the best it can be, we need to donate much more than we do now, both ACADEMICALLY and athletically.
And the answer is???? TaDa
Fsu has traditionally graduated mostly school teachers and scientists and UF generally graduated most of the professional fields including medicine. Guess who makes the most money and has the most influence. That is changing somewhat now, but is still overwhelming for UF. I went to high school in G’ville in the late 50’s. My friends dads went to UF and their moms went to FSU. Guess which school got the family booster donations.
TK's a diehard Nole...
but he was an awful president. We are in MUCH better hands now. Thank the Good Lord.
Which was my point
and for some of the reasons you mention, all the more reason to appreciate the remarkable success and dynasty Bobby Bowden was able to build with so much going against him. As I wrote below, an institution’s influence is not projected by how long students have been getting educated in a particular group of buildings, on a particular piece of land, but how much influence, resources and capital their supporters bring to the table.
The problem with this post is...
there are others out there that feel the same way. FSU is far, far behind its competitors in regards to endowments and money. People just don’t think about it because for as long as many of us can remember, FSU has been competitive.
For example, UF has 13K boosters and FSU has 15K. However, you have to donate $4K just to have the right to purchase football season tickets at UF. You can donate $0 and get pretty decent season tickets at FSU. The people who sit at the 50 yard line in Doak give anywhere from $600-$6000 annually while the people sitting at the 50 yard line in Hogtown give probably give $10,000-$25,000 annually. The difference in giving is important, not the number of boosters. Essentially, FSU has a large number of small donors (which is still important) but a very small number of significant donors while schools like Alabama, UGA, UF, Texas, etc. are the other way around.
by Lpfsu511 on Feb 1, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
For all the reasons you mention, and many more
this is exactly why I stated in another post that everyone on this board should join the Boosters. There is no excuse not to. I believe it only takes $60. If every 2 seats in the stadium gave 60 bucks, just think how much money that is.
I went to just a handful of games after I left FSU, as I have not lived near Tally since. When my son was born, I decided I needed to reestablish some sort of connection/legacy, if you will. So I joined the Boosters and bought season tickets. Now, even though I live in the Atlanta area…and have for 25+ years, my son is one of the worlds most rabid Nole fans.
The legacy to another generation is now firmly in place. That is how we will catch the big boys. Do it for your school and your team.
For purposes of disclosure and transparency, both my parents attended FSU and my Mom is a Leon High alum. I am a Silver Chief……Join
Off the soap box…thanks for affording me the rant.
Shouldn't just be boosters...
but donating to the academic side as well..
Noles55
Yes, donations to academics as well. This is still an effect of the culture & demographic challenges. The only way to change is to have Eric Barron’s in every dept. with similar incentivized contracts, and get the PR machine going.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 2, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Don't disagree with academics support.
I should clarify. My son and others like him doesn’t become an FSU fan at 8 or 9 because of the economics, drama, biology, or any other department. It’s because of athletics. If and when he becomes a successful/wealthy adult, he can support all aspects of the school. The bottom line is that if one only has 50 or 100 dollars to give, The Boosters give the overall school the biggest bang for the buck.
Somewhat off-topic...
but FSU is the oldest school in the State of Fla. Actually started out as all-male and first opened for classes in 1857 (chartered in 1851). Only school in Fla that was open prior to and during the Civil War. FSU (underwent a few name changes in the 1800s) was the most historically signficant school up until 1905. Then…UF (as we know it) finally opened its doors in Gainesville and took the boys with them.
Again…it doesn’t change this debate. I just think it’s important that FSU does a better job of selling the fact that it is far and away the oldest existing college in Florida…in every tangible way. So next time you walk the campus…take pride in knowing its the oldest…and started a long time before the one in Gainesville.
To reiterate...
FSU is the oldest institution in Fla…it just got hindered for 40-some years thanks to the Buckman Act…in the “middle ages” of its history.
A facilities age and its viability as an ongoing institution are not the same
It’s great that we can say we have the oldest institution in Florida, but that boast means little to our discussion or counts nothing towards the financial viability of today’s FSU. Yes, a college was on the same site in Tallahassee where FSU currently sits but, the Seminary and girl’s schools of years past have no correlation with FSU’s institution of today. We really are a relatively new university. Seminary School students of the by-gone era or graduates of the all girl’s school probably have no affinity toward modern day Nole Nation, and even if they did, as a group, wouldn’t have the means to support it. Most didn’t get into those schools to become bankers, business people, or leaders of American industry.
I don't think he's talking about financials. I think he's talking about school pride.
How often do you hear UF referred to as the oldest university in Florida? FSU’s been in the same spot for 160 years. UF’s only been UF for 100.
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.........Three
big reasons, as well as age of fans and big boosters. FSUn when you do your big story, please have one of you young turks do us a graph of age/ health older fans from say Orlando or lake county will drive four hours to watch wake vs how many old ( rich) gaytors will go two hours to watch vandy.
Plus, google duke crittindon(spelling) or Sid Herlong and compare all the old $$$$ from the 40,s 50,s etc. that the Gaytors get.B asically boils down to our old farts are VASTLY outnumbered by their rich old farts.( plus , of course tv, winning, etc) ya REALLY want a laugh, go compare our pre bobby years $$$ to the gaytors of the era.
Someone did this a few years back
It may have been as long as 10 years ago. The source? I don’t remember. Possibly The Osceola. The point was that the population density around Tallahassee is pretty low, and as the distance from Tally grows you get closer to older established schools, and that FSU does not have a huge local population from which to pull fans to fill the stadium.
One of the reasons FSU joined the ACC was to mitigate financial hardships if the program ever fell on difficult times. It was great to keep the $$ of a nationally prominent program as an independent, but it did not afford long term security. Long term security was supposedly the reasons for the Dynasty and Legacy campaigns, as well.
I once read that if all living alumni simply gave $3 each year, FSU would be one of the richest schools (ignoring athletics). I’m not sure I believe that math, but I do know that some of the very richest schools are the oldest. The Ivy League schools are incredibly rich. Virginia has a group called the Seven. Look ’em up. Filthy, filthy rich.
If FSU is the only program established after WWI to win a MNC, is that related to its age, and is that age related to its wealth?
Trust those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide
by Tastanagi Tutka Thlako on Feb 1, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
WWII, not I
Trust those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide
by Tastanagi Tutka Thlako on Feb 1, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think you hit on the issue....
yes, there are all kind of issues, but the bottom line is, FSU just doesn’t get the folks it has to give money….even small amounts….THAT is the problem.
I remember reading on a board somewhere and to back up Tastanagi
A contributor had a meeting with a Booster Organizer, Tampa area I think. The organizer said if all living alumni would just give the minimum amount yearly they would never have to worry about funds again. Wow. He may have been referring to the football program but still…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 1, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
I was at that lunch with Pinto
It was something along those lines
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
So what doesn't the boosters work with the FSU Foundation...
and push something like this?
Uhhh...
because TK was president and they suck? We’ll see what the new pres does. I think everyone here agrees that he has plenty of room to improve…even me.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 1, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Why not have academic donations increase Booster priority?
For example, if you donate $50 or more, you increase a Booster level. If you donate $500 or more, you increase 2 levels. $1000 or more and you increase 3.
Pay $300 to be a Renegade, and pay $50 more to academics and you get bumped up to a Warrior ($600 value). Something like that.
Academics first
I have a personal policy to always donate at least as much to the FSU Foundation as I do to the boosters. Football and the other athletics (men’s and women’s) are fun and I want them all to never lose and win championships every year, but truly, academics is what’s really important. I’m fortunate I got an education, and I’m fortunate I got it at FSU.
Many private schools that used to be athletic powerhouses eventually de-emphasized their sports programs. Fordham is an example (although I think they may be re-starting football). Public universities will probably not follow this path in my lifetime
Trust those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide
by Tastanagi Tutka Thlako on Feb 2, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you.
I was just trying to figure out a way to get non-academics donators to give to the academics, whilst still helping their Booster priority, etc.
I think they will but wont push too hard until we have a successful season
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Alumni Economics
A HUGE factor in all of this are the type of alumni both schools put out. UF is putting out high dollar alumni like MDs, PharmDs, DMDs, DVMs, etc.
Not anymore
They have a brand new college of medicine. It’s very impressive..
your right we have one,
but how long is it going to take for graduates to start paying off loans and contribute significantly. We’re looking at 10 years. Even then, now FSU is down a pharmacy school, dentist school and a vet school. Albeit FSU does have a law school, the amount of money coming in UF>FSU
Well with the difference in what the two campus are offering we are sure to catch up
within the not too distant future.
Just a part of the new beautiful College of Medicine campus.
UF has slightly dated facilities. They don’t call it the swamp for nothing.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 1, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When you graduate and start your practice, target some of those fat-cat Gator boosters
You’ll simultaneously do well for yourself, while you beat back the forces of evil in the world. Seriously, best of luck to you in your in your studies. Hint: Don’t stay up all night reading and posting to TN.
It is very unlikely that FSU will ever be at the same level of UF, Texas or Ohio State
At least not in my life time. FSU’s major objective is to be on top of the ACC which is something that is very obtainable.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
UVA, Duke, and UNC all have...
MUCH more money than UF.
Not that goes towards football
Rays will answer all of everybody’s money questions after NSD in his story, I’m confident.
>>---l>
Yes, they do...
here is some info on UVA
When they built their new stadium, I think they had one donation for over $30 Million.
UNC is about to put over $100 Million in their stadium as well.
All 3 of those schools have MUCH more money than UF. Now, they may spend it a bit differently, but they are all much wealthier than UF.
Spending is what I'm talking about when I say "not that goes towards football"
Never argued endowment. Rays has all the stats. Everyone will see.
Believe me, I have been to the facilities at UVA and I have been to the facilities at UGA and FSU. It isn’t close. They don’t put the money toward football at UVA and UNC that they do at these bigger schools in the deep south because nobody cares enough at those two schools. If a school like UVA suddenly cared about football, then they could certainly throw the money behind it to have great facilities and great coaches. They could never be great, though, because of the admissions standards and the lack of a talent rich recruiting base.
>>---l>
Agree.
Schools that are throwing huge amounts of money toward football typically are bringing in huge profits that are made on football and booster money designated for the same purpose. Even in FSU’s endowment the money is usually tied to a certain program or college. FSU all of the sudden can’t say, well well just take a few million from the arts department cause our football facilities suck (don’t think you were saying that is what UVA or UNC is doing nole55).
Now UVA and UNC are certainly more wealthy than UF (will look up endowment net worth later). But I think there needs to be a distinction between football rich and over all school rich. UF is certainly one of the top football rich universities in the nation.
Looking forward to Rays article. See the numbers I have found compared to what he found. There is some good data out there.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 1, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
In general yes, I am more focused on everything football related
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
What the average fan doesn't get...
is it is ALL tied together to a point.
When it comes to college athletics, a rising tide raises all boats. It is a mistake to look at ‘wealth’ in a football vacuum IMHO. This is a mindset FSU ALWAYS makes. IE, ‘well, we will just get rich in football and the rest will sort itself out’. It doesn’t work that way in college athletics. The biggest richest school are almost always rich everywhere else. I doubt FSU ever gets this, but it is what holds FSU back…..including in football.
Thanks for bringing up the endowment piece
I added those numbers to the article and it is interesting to see the correlations or lack thereof with regards to revenues and success
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I read an article about USC that mentioned
they pretty much have every football schollie (if not every) set through endowment. Every dollar they get from here on out goes to other stuff. I have to believe they arent the only school that does that.
I have to admit, Im interested to see your upcoming article.
A universities endowment is different than having their athletic scholarships fully endowed.
I would imagine there are several big time programs with fully endowed athletic scholarships. We aren’t there. Which means a significant chunk of Boosters y early contributions goes out the window that same year to pay for those scholarships. If we were to endow the scholarships, the interest we make each year on the endowment would be enough to pay the scholarships. And the year Booster contributions could go towards stadium renovations, indoor practice facility, coaching salaries, etc..
Maybe I repeated what you already knew/intended to say.
I heard a story about UVA this past weekend
Their baseball program was about to be shut down a few years ago and then received private donations to fund it and 7 or 8 years later they have one of the best teams in the country.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
That is correct....
It was a famous writer.
UVA has had some HUGE athletic donations.
Everyone keeps saying after NSD
How soon after NSD. I am really looking forward to this story. It is really important that FSU fans are educated on this subject.
Oregon
Has new flashy facilities that may be better than the pros. Have you noticed all the recruits taking official visits to Oregon. It’s not just the coaching staff. I think they want to see those new facilities.
Trust those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide
by Tastanagi Tutka Thlako on Feb 1, 2010 9:19 PM EST reply actions
If Oregon was located in the right place
they would be an absolute power. They obviously care about football and have the financial backing from Ducks alum Phil Knight. I remember when Terrelle Pryor was being recruited. Schools that wanted him were terrified of him possibly taking an OV to Oregon because they knew what was there, facilities wise. Now, chances are he wasn’t going to pick the ducks (He never did visit), but all bets were off if he took an OV in OSU, Mich, and PSU’s minds.
As it is, they just went to the Rose Bowl with a whole bunch of LA area kids USC didn’t even want. If that school was located in even a halfway decent recruiting base they would be a monster. Reason? They will always have something to sell to recruits. They are starting to recruit nationally now as well (LaMichael James and just got Lache Seastrunk. Both from Texas). They may end up a power just yet. They certainly care enough about football to make the attempt
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 2, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
To further your point
One head coach of a Denver-area high school program that was home to one of the state`s best players this year, said he doesn`t believe the exodus is Hawkins` fault or a product of on-field results or job-security concerns. He said the football program at CU needs more financial support from the university and its fans for it to be successful, regardless of who the coach is.
“These kids, their heads spin when they go to these places because of their facilities versus what we`ve got in our backyard in Boulder,” the coach, who requested anonymity, said. "It really bothers me as a Colorado high school football coach.
Colorado’s prep stars departing in droves
This kind of stuff matters to kids.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
To summarize:
1) the size of the alumni base (FSU was 18000 undergrad when I was there)
2) the professional composition of the alum – when I was at FSU, there was no med school, the engineering school started while I was there (well, restarted, there was one long ago that was closed), and the law school doesn’t go back to the point of having some 80 year old alum of it.
Great Comments By All
I’m very much looking forward to RnN’s article, bc I have this discussion far too often not only with my uppity Gator, UVA and Harvard friends, but also with many FSU alums.
Demographics has so much to do with the situation the univesity is in today, but in moving forward, better outreach, PR and buyin between faculty and the athletic dept will go a long way in bringing the change we want.
Consequently, I wonder if Jimbo has any thoughts on this as well, seeing that he’s been here three years and is focused on “systemic” change within the football and AD programs.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 2, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions
I took his "I'm even going to change this (sports admin)building" comment to imply complete overhaul. Not just staff...
but I would imagine the way we raise funds, facilities, and keep former players interested, etc.
Yeah, right!
I know we're not on the Bama, UF, Texas level
but I want to know how/if/when we can close the gap to a more respectable number. I’m looking forward to RnN’s article.
Winning
It is all about W’s when you win people give, when you don’t people won’t . With few exceptions (Phil Knight- Nike CEO gives Oregon cash and new redic jerseys each year and T Boone Pickens will give every penny he makes to OLK St.) Once Jimbo (who is the boosters guy anyways) turns it aroudn the money will flow.
Also, I live in a golf development in Ormond Beach, the head developer and owner of the golf course is a Gator Booster, from 1980-2000 he gave roughly 2 mil to to UF, he has given over 40 mil in the last 6, when the W’s started pouring in. ( those figures were in a recent article about him)
W’s =$$$, and not just boosters BCS bowls give big bucks too.
Just win baby!
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