Seminole Stock Report - 2nd Quarter Update
This post is the 2nd installment of a quarterly update based on our performances to date as well as assorted opponents' performances in their own games (see 1st Quarter Expectations). Two essential companions to appropriately frame and ground this piece include csfuu’s excellent analysis of Expectations and Variability, as well as Bud’s weekly installment of Nole Your Opponents.
We are coming off a 10-year high event in terms of the program’s outlook. While I attempt to remain grounded in my expectations, it was inevitable (mathematically as well as subjectively) that the win totals took a big jump based on results vs. UM and the other dominating performances against the other easier-than-expected opponents that we faced over the last 3 weeks.
This past quarter has not only been characterized by massive improvements to our own product, but coincident declines in several of the key roadblocks between our team and 10 wins + an ACCCG appearance: namely, Clemson, UNC, and Boston College taking slides, for assorted reasons. Alternately, NCSU has stepped up its performance and now appears to be our foremost contender for the Atlantic Division crown. Courtesy of the refreshing outcome of the matchup against the Miami Hurri --. maybe we’ll just call them the Pleasant Sprinkles from here on-- we now stand on the precipice of a special season.
Results to date:
OU – 0.00 (-0.30 over original expectation)
BYU – 1.00 (+0.15 over original expectation)
Wake – 1.00 (+0.10 over original expectation)
@UVa – 1.00 (+0.30 over original expectation)
@UM – 1.00 (+0.60 over original expectation) – tacks on a full win by itself, if you’re rounding.
Outlook:
BC – 0.90 — (+0.10 over original expectation) Last time I stated that the coaching attrition seems to be showing up and it’s not the same efficient team we've faced in years past. This has been thoroughly validated. Their defense is probably on UVa’s level while their offense is probably inferior, illustrated most recently by a very poor performance against a sub-par NCSU D. The rushing defense is the only strength of this team, and we’ve proven ourselves to be dynamic enough on offense to deal with this. The way our defense has been playing, they need to hold us to 14 points or less. That’s not happening short of a +4 fumble stat.
@NCSU – 0.60 — (-0.10 over original expectation) Expectations dropping another 0.05 since last quarter’s update. Thursday night road game spells trouble, but both teams have 12 days to prepare. Russell Wilson is obviously dangerous, but their offensive units have continued an up and down trajectory while their D has some question marks. On the other hand, our defense remains untested against a true dual threat quarterback, though our offense should be able to generate at least 30 points in this game.
UNC – 0.75 — (+0.05 over original expectation) Expectations climbing back up 0.10 this quarter in light of today’s news. Their team has proved itself serviceable thus far, but confirmation of their two best defensive players (Austin, Quinn) and their best offensive player (Little) being out, for certain, is devastating news to their outlook. If they had their current personnel (the team that beat CU) against us, perhaps FSU’s expectation would be lowered slightly, but we must also build in some consideration for the damage they will suffer through attrition with these confirmed personnel losses. They are going to ride the horses they have left into the ground as the season progresses. While we thought the late season game might be a disadvantage for FSU, it may turn out to work in our favor.
CU – 0.70 — (NO CHANGE over preseason expectation) Back up 0.05 this week over last quarterly update (coming off Auburn game) – they since have lost to UM at home and UNC on the road. Ellington, Harper, and even Parker can still be dangerous, and the defense has loads of talent, but this team reflects the quality of its head coach right now. I do not see them having the composure needed to go into a hostile environment and pull out a win against a superior team that is settling nicely into its new scheme. Limiting Ellington’s big plays is the tried and true prescription for a victory vs. CU this season – and Stoops, Hudson, Elliot, and Haggins have proven themselves very capable thus far. (Footnote: If we beat NCSU and have no explicit pressure to win this game for the Atlantic title, I see a two TD win.)
@UMd – 0.90 — (+0.10 from original expectation) Expectations rising another 0.05 this quarter. 90 percent is almost as high as I can go with a road game against a BCS opponent, until such time that we’ve proven ourselves to be back among the nation’s elite. This is an inefficient offense and a poor run defense: a recipe for disaster against 2010 FSU. You give them 0.10 because we’re on the road.
UF – 0.50 — (+0.10 over preseason expectation) UF was exposed by Alabama and lost to the Mad Hatter since the last update. If we played this Saturday, they would be clear ‘dogs. But the magnitude of their program dictates that this game is a toss-up from our current reference point; you have to assume they will improve considerably. In the last update, I asserted, "Ponder better get the long ball figured out by November; we don't stand much of a chance if our only option is to try to nickel and dime their defense (they don't have to defend the whole field)." I still think this is true, but now we’ve proven our offense can be dynamic against a team with great athletes on D.
UF’s offense will undoubtedly improve by the end of the season and this game will not be determined by poor snaps. Demps and possibly even Rainey could be back on the field by the time we see them, as well. Will our depth at DL hold through to the end of the season? One key personnel loss (DT) and UF, of all teams we face, might be able to beat us, even with a one-dimensional, ground-oriented attack. Further, I think our homefield advantage is essentially negated by a combination of added preparation they will bring into the game, courtesy of their off-week preceding the game, and too many of their fans snapping up a Lost Decade’s share of FSU’s season ticket allotment.
Expected win totals:
Not surprisingly, we’ve made huge strides since last quarter’s and the season-opening expectations.
Overall: 9.35 (+1.48 over original expectation of 7.87)
ACC: 6.85 (+1. 23 over original expectation of 5.62)
A 10 win regular season is now well within reach -- though still not quite "expected." I think it is safe to say, however, that a 10-win mark for the complete 2010 season (including potential for ACCCG + Bowl, regardless of opponent) is something that we should be able to achieve.
I’ll close with an open invitation to fsugrizz, csfuu, or any of our other resident statisticians to bring all of those fancy statistical bells and whistles to the floor to illustrate distributions and such to give us a clearer picture of where the team stands.
58 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Win totals and probabilities
Here’s are your (arrdub’s) current probabilities (expressed as percentages) for the various win totals, assuming independence of game outcomes.
5: 0.0, 6: 0.4, 7: 3.7, 8: 15.8, 9: 33.6, 10: 33.8 11: 12.8
I’m going to try to upload a graph of same, but unfortunately, I’m having trouble getting the “image” thing to work, so expect a fail here.
Cool. If you can't get it to work, try some html.
Use open “<” and close “>” carrots in place of the _’s below, in order:
img src=“(insert file path here without parens)”
and, of course, the underscores I used get interpreted as italics,
so the instructions should be changed to: add an open carrot to the front and a close carrot to the end.
Tried that
I thought I remembered a dialog box would pop up that would let me upload the graphic. Anyway, total fail for me today.
Thanks grizz
When you click on the little picture of a tree, do you get some sort of dialogue box that allows you to upload a graphic?
FWIW, I seem to be having a lot of problems with firefox lately, but I tried this with chrome, opera, and konquerer (no IE because I’m running linux), and every time I just got a dialogue to enter a URL, with the title “The page at ”http://www.tomhawknation.com" target="_blank">http://www.tomhawknation.com". I tried entering the file://… url and just the path to the file, but neither worked.
Acckkkk. What I meant was
When you click on the little picture of a tree, do you get some sort of dialogue box that allows you to upload a graphic? Or how are you doing it?
FWIW, I seem to be having a lot of problems with firefox lately, but I tried this with chrome, opera, and konquerer (no IE because I’m running linux), and every time I just got a dialogue to enter a URL, with the title "The page at "http://www.tomhawknation.com". I tried entering the path to the file both plain and as a url (file://path-to-file), but neither worked.
Funny, I don’t remember having any trouble with this before today.
I click the tree
and then submit the link to where I have the image saved. In my case most are saved to my website, but there are plenty of places you can upload a picture online for free.
Thanks for the reminder
I knew that but forgot. Too bad we can’t upload, but I suppose that might get out of control in a hurry.
Funny -- don't know that I've ever seen it written, and didn't know it was a formal term!
Just thought they called them that because they are pointy like the orange version ;)
If we maintain our focus & intensity every week,
we have no business losing another game. Not saying this will happen but Jimbo has shown that he knows how to get the team focused and motivated.
p.s. Florida’s O is HORRIBLE (#96 pre-modern stats)—we should hold them to < 20 pts.
Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....
We've been very lucky on the DL so far... people keep forgeting that.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
I wouldn't say lucky. We protect our guys during practice and do a lot of lower body work and stretching.
The guys are also in good shape and are expected to play through injuries.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
All of this is true, but we still have been very fortunate to not have ANYONE out.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Had Moses go down preseason
Think he would have had a great impact in Miami game. D guys little gassed, he would have had quality snaps. But yes, very fortunate no season enders during the season, KNOCKING ON WOOD.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Oct 12, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Teams really don't do that though
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Agreed, just pointing out that as of today we shouldn't be a dog in any game for the rest of the season
Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....
I think UF turns things around and we're a dog against them come Nov
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Their offense had issues last year but Tebow would bail them out time and time again.
If you take away Tebow running the ball last year. It really wasn’t that prolific of an offense.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
I still dont'think NCstate has the O and D line strenth to maerrit .60 I'd have them at .65 on the road.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
russel is good for some explosive plays feet and arm that they should have otherwise, but the line play to me
means inconsistency… that’s IMO why we’re seeing their offense be up and down.
OUr consistency in those areas should ensure a win even if its closer than we’d like.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
I hope you're right.
The dual-threat thing occurred to me when considering them this time — we haven’t faced a threat like that, so don’t know for certain how our scheme/defenders will handle.
J Harris running as easily as he did gave me pause. I think our game was probably the most yardage he’s ever chewed up on the ground. Obviously, we will scheme differently for Wilson than Harris, but Wilson being a better runner AND passer makes me think he will test us.
Harris is a better passer with much better WR then Wilson.
Wilson has great ability but little help when compared to Miami. It’s tougher for running QB when you are running zone looks. Wilson will also have to deal with Moody, Alexander and company hitting him running down hill. Jimbo comments about shots is interesting. Guys only can take so many shots prior to wanting to shut it down. How many shots has Wilson taken this year that compare to Moody or Alexander?
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
We ran a lot of man cover two... also I think MIA"s line was a bit better in pass pro than NCstate will be
meaning hopefully we…A we won’t lose contain as often & 2 there shouldn’t be as much vacant space once he turns the corner.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Still I think Russell has a better arm than harris by far and is more dangerous when he gets hot.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
More acurate yes...But unless a guy is wide open he cant hit them... I think Russel is more dangerous when he's throwing well.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Are Wilson receivers even in Miami league?
UM has three guys that are going to draw a checks on Sundays. I’m not sure if NC State has one. Owen Spencer is the closet thing they have to NFL WR. He doesn’t have elite speed to burn us on the backend unless we completely blow the coverage.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Owen Spencer has elite speed.
AJ Alexander couldn’t catch him in a 50-yard race last year.
by The K-Man on Oct 12, 2010 8:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Owen Spencer runs a 4.65 forty so I really don't know what you consider elite.
Right now, some sites list him as 40th best WR coming out this year. If he had elite speed he would be a first round pick. Alexander and every DB we have with the exception of Demps would smoke him in a forty.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
once you're in the 4.6 and under range route running trumps speed.
Bottom line they are moving the sticks…and not always against bad Deffenses. So they must be pretty good(at least in the context of their current team)
I don’t think we can sleep on them 30 on VT and 44 on BC.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Spencer is really fast
so is their other guy
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Also I think Clemson should be .75 it tally thats just me though.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Throw up your whole list and show me what you got!
That’s the whole point of this post — to see where everyone now has us at the half-way point of the season.
Need to get ricobert to post a link to original predictions, too, for comparison purposes.
...changes to what you have... mine are in a drawer somewhere.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Your percentage against Maryland needs a little work.
If you don’t let your percentage rise above 90%, your final number of wins is discounted. We both know that Maryland wouldn’t win one out of every ten games. The BC number is relatively low as well. How many 21+ point favorite lose every weekend? One out of ten is awfully high?
Your UF prediction seems to count on UF getting better and us staying the same. The one thing we’ve learned so far is that this staff has the players working at a high level during the week. I’m willing to bet our improvement over the next two months will be greater then UF. We are still very young on defense and our WR have yet to master the offense.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Now this is the kind of back-and-forth I was hoping for....
Re: Maryland — I still think 1 out of 10 is quite a slim chance in football terms. I tried to keep things in increments of 5% to avoid excessive illusions of precision, and going up to 95% (only 1 out of 20) seems like it’s taking things just a bit too far. As a comparative level of talent, how often does a top 5 team lose to an unranked opponent? Doesn’t it happen at least a couple times every year? Maybe I’m overstating, but if not, you take your top 5 teams, and they each play, on average, 7 or so games against unranked opponents, you are left with 7×5 = 35 possible instances. So if you get 3 upsets of this nature, you’re rounding to a 1 in 10 chance, but maybe 1 in 20 is genuinely realistic if we come into the game at full strength.
But from there, remember that I think we have to emphasize the injury component for us because we’re in a tweener position in our program of great starting quality but some vulnerability behind it. If we lose an OL or DT by then — which is honestly more likely than not — aren’t we a bit more vulnerable? This is why I say “until we’re established elite.” Single injuries don’t necessarily change the face of an Alabama… but we could be impacted significantly. I approached it intuitively, but here’s how you would incorporate chance of catastrophic (OL, DT, QB) injury to our lineup:
[Chance of major injury] x [expected win percent from that perspective] +
[Chance of no major injury] x [expected win percent from that perspective]=
[Final expectation]
So, my numbers might look like:
[50%] x [85%] +
[50%] x [95%] =
90%
So, you see I’m not completely throwing the team under the bus if we get one of these guys dinged (still 85%), but I think it does measurably impact the chance that they could upset us.
The injury component is even stronger for UF. An injury to one of UF’s guys is not nearly as decimating as it would be for us. They are simply stocked full of talent. So while I think both teams will improve at a similar rate, we face a risk that they aren’t facing in a razor thing situation at a couple of positions.
I don't have the time to do the research but how many times does a team that's a 20+ favorite lose?
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Not sure if this is what you mean, but
in Bud’s original article it gives a way to convert point spreads to percentages.
Using the equation in the article, a 20 point favorite would be 89% to win.
Caveat – I personally think the ‘equation’ is off and that a 20 point favorites wins ~95% of the time, but like you I have no data to back me up.
Does that prove out week to week? Let's do it this weekend. How many +20 point favorite win? I would be surprised if it's only 90%.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Oh I agree
To me, once it gets to 20, I say the favorite should win 97.5%
But that was the article’s numbers and I imagine they come from somewhere… not sure though
Wish someone with the data would weigh in.
I assume Bud didn’t just make up the %’s associated with the lines, though.
97.5% (1 in 40) still seems high to me.
Easy enough to take a sample from this weekend activity.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Nope. Watch out or you'll get MattD on you about variance.
But seriously, you need more than a week’s data to put together anything close to definitive. If we’re talking about something between 1-in-10 and 1-in-40 odds, you may not even be able to find one iteration in a given week.
Moneyline for our game this weekend implies that we win about 93% of the time
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Agree that's a much better metric, as stilts describes below.
But don’t know about the accuracy of Bud’s take (20 pts = 89%?)
Grizz Originals
Originals vs Now
Samford 0.99 vs 1 +.01
OU 0.4 vs 0 -.4
BYU 0.9 vs 1 +.1
Wake 0.9 vs 1 +.1
UVA 0.95 vs 1 +.05
Miami 0.4 vs 1 +.6
So I’ve already boosted my original list by .46 or almost half of a game
BC 0.6 vs .95 + .35
NCSU 0.7 vs .75 +.05
UNC 0.65 vs .75 +.1
Clemson 0.65 vs .7 +.05
UMD 0.95 vs .99 +.04
UF 0.5 vs 0.5 no change
So i boosted my expectations in the future by .59 games
So then my total boost in expectation is 1.05 games.
I was at 8.59 overall and 5.8 inconference. I was expecting a 9-3 (6-2), but realistically 8-4 (6-2) was almost as high a probability.
Now I am looking at 9.64 and 7.14 in conference. So now I’m looking at 10-2 (7-1) but its realistic to look at it as 9-3(7-1).

by 


































