Talking Clemson-FSU with ShakinTheSouthland.com
This week we are joined by our friends at Shakin The Southland, covering all things Clemson. The tag-team that runs STS is comprised of serious football experts and they are always on point. STS is a really good site not only for Clemson info, but also to learn about the game of football. I answered some of their questions and you should definitely check that out as well.
1. How far off from your pre-season expectations is Clemson at this point? Have the Tigers suffered an unusual amount of injuries?
We predicted in February around 8-4 or 9-3, then I ripped off your method (allotting a confidence percentage to each game) in August and came up with 8-4/9-3 again, so we will need to win out to get to this level. This team has, from an overall level of play, been disappointing especially on offense. I fully expected a more veteran offensive line and Ellington (who I had been praising all off-season) to be more proficient. Ellington has not disappointed me but our inability to get quality receivers on the field early and our predictable/inexplicable play calling to be better. Our kicking game has also been a liability as we have yet to find a dependable place kicker out of the three we have on scholarship. The defense has played well for the most part (we had a few breakdowns in important portions of games but have adjusted after those miscues).
We suffered the following losses over the course of the year, which I do not think were insurmountable:
Jaron Brown missed the NC State game with an ankle injury.
Andre Ellington got hurt in the BC game. He missed the NC State game and we are not sure how much longer he will be out with a strained ligament in his foot.
Kourtnei Brown got dinged up and has missed some time.
Brandon Maye had his knee scoped to start the year.
Tig Willard battled an elbow injury.
Jamie Cumbie was dismissed from the team after an altercation this summer with a Clemson student.
Obviously we had an issue with Kyle Parker getting speared during the Auburn game.
2. Clemson has had one of the best 20 defenses in the country forever, sometimes even best 10. How has the defense changed in the second year of Kevin Steele's scheme? Do you think the defensive personnel is better this year than it was last season?
Steele's base play has not changed too much and neither has his core tendencies. Clemson did show more flexibility in particular situations, especially against Georgia Tech. Steele showed a few three man fronts there and featured bandit end Andre Branch playing some linebacker along with portions of our defensive line playing in a two point stance.
Clemson's defense is weakest at the linebacker position as we were last season. Steele is still working on this group and we have to get better. Otherwise Clemson is pretty good in up front and in the secondary. This team lost Jamie Cumbie and Ricky Sapp off the defensive line from last season but gained a rejuvenated Bowers and Kourtnei Brown off of a red shirt. At linebacker we are still struggling. Clemson lost both starting corners from last season and took a little while to get in a deep groove especially defending the pass as Clemson gave up quite a few big plays on critical secondary miscues early in the year.
Overall, we probably get a little better up front specifically with an improved Bowers, stand still at linebacker, and are a little worse in the secondary and, overall, close to where we were last season. I will say that I have been pleased with our third down defense the past few weeks.
3. After Da'Quan Bowers, Deandre McDaniel, and Dwayne Allen, who are the next three best players on this team?
Andre Ellington has been our most potent weapon on offense but now he is obviously going to be sidelined for a couple more weeks. Ellington really broke out and, if this staff would have fed him the ball more, probably would have had a huge year to date and Clemson probably would have picked up another win and/or instilled more confidence and more of an identity for this offense.
DeAndre Hopkins (Nuke) is an impressive wide receiver. He has a wide array of skills and has contributed as a freshman, quickly becoming Clemson's go to receiver. There is little doubt that he is the Tiger's biggest pass catching threat at the wide out position and has proven himself as a very capable return man.
Defensively, you could make a case for Rashard Hall or Andre Branch. Hall has accounted for a lot of tackles (55 total) to this point and has a couple of interceptions including one he returned for a score. I like Branch, our bandit end, for the versatility he has shown on the year, even playing some linebacker when called into this role against Georgia Tech. You could make an argument for our other defensive linemen if you wish as those guys overall have played pretty well as a group on the year.
4. Does this Clemson offense do anything well? I know the coaches have changed up the receivers and benched the vets for the talented young guys, and pledged to give Ellington more carries (then he got hurt), but, is this more of a development problem, philosophical problem, organizational problem, or x&o problem?
What does this offense do well? They are predictable (under center we will run and out of the gun we will throw) and inconsistent. I will say that the younger receivers have improved as they received more playing time. Ellington proved to be a great back before his injury and we may be singing a different tune had the staff committed to getting him more carries earlier in the year.
Overall, we have problems in all of the areas that were asked about. The Tigers (Brad Scott) have done a poor job developing offensive linemen AND we have not signed as many linemen as we would have liked. Consequently we have little experienced and quality linemen beyond the starters and their play has been suspect the past few weeks. Clemson has had similar problems at other positions including the wide receivers, so this is an issue here.
Philosophically, we have discussed at length at STS what looks like a conflict between Coach Swinney and Coach Napier regarding play calling and offensive strategy. Coach Napier's background is a quarterback in a pro style offense. He seems to prefer two back sets and utilizing more "traditional" offensive methods. Coach Swinney seems to favor more spread formations particularly with a direct snap from the center to QB. This gun/under center and spread vs. TE clash has given us "choppy" drives and seems to rob the offense of rhythm.
As a young coach and more of a people person, I think Dabo is not as strong on the X's and O's as some other coaches, especially since he lacks coordinator experience. The same goes for Napier, although I get a hunch that Billy is more of an X's and O's guy that Swinney. From an organizational standpoint, I am not sure that we have had the best personnel on the field at all times this year and have suffered lapses including the use of timeouts to start quarters and clock mismanagement.
Our defensive staff is more mature from a coordinator standpoint. Steele is a very capable coach who aptly adjusts in-game. Clemson's biggest issue defensively has been, ironically, KS's position linebacker group. We are thin there and if this defense is going to make mistakes it will probably be there.
5. Not to fan the flames, but Clemson has not won a conference title in 19 years. Nothing wrong with holding the program to a high standard, but should Clemson fans lower their expectations until Clemson gets a president or at least and AD who wants to play ball with the big boys?
The question seems fair enough and can see how someone outside of the Clemson fan base would think in this fashion. Clemson has a deep football tradition. Clemson currently has the talent to play with anyone in conference and has one of the more enthusiastic fan bases in the ACC. I think Clemson has a passion for football that is shared by only a couple of other ACC schools. No championships in 20 years is unacceptable and should not be tolerated particularly when Wake Forest wins one in this time period.
I hope that Clemson fans will not lower their standards because maintaining such expectations and demanding better is the only way that the administration will realize that Clemson fans demand more than a 7-5 record. Clemson as an institution needs an adjustment in the athletic department and an overall attitude adjustment towards athletics (and football in particular) but once you lower your expectations you begin to accept mediocrity.
Thanks again to Dr. B and FIGUREFOUR for answering out questions today.
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Excellent job by STS
which is expected by those who have visited their site in the past (through links here on TN). They showed here why TN has such high admiration for them and their site.
Very good read overall and they didn’t give the PC/PAT response to any question.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
That's one thing that STS won't do
is give you the fluff and PC responses. They tell you how they feel.
I agree they shouldn't lower their standards
But they will have to adjust their expectations if they don’t “get a pres/AD that wants to play ball with the big boys”
Bud, I changed FIGEREGOUR to FIGUREFOUR.
BTW, note to Figurefour. Jack Brisco (RIP) was putting the figure four submission hold on Dory and Terry Funk in the NWA years before Ric Flair even stepped into the ring.
Just sayin’.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
RAP? I don't understand.
Risk assessment process?
Response action plan?
Risk action plan?
Rapid assessment program?
Right away please?
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I began to have my doubts about RAP
When two pack Shakur was shot in the lower area and became one pack Shakur
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
No photo Doc?
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Frank, for the lawyers
Rule Against Perpetuities
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
YOURE RIGHT
NOt to be nittpicky but it was Dory Funk Jr.
You're right. I left off the JR. SR was before my time.
And not to be nitpicky back, it was Gordon Solie “his face is a crimson mask” or “his head is a crimson mess.”
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I am wondering if there is any truth to this one
http://chuckoliver.net/?p=9994
“This is what I hear from the insiders I communicate with:
1- No matter how Clemson finishes the last four games Coach Swinney will remain head coach. Sources tell me that his goals will be to focus on being the face of the Clemson football program and recruiting. That makes sense as these are his strengths.
2- According to my sources, expect offensive coordinator Billy Napier to be replaced by season’s end. Clemson will look to hire a proven offensive coordinator that will install and run the new system. Don’t be surprised if it were to be a spread type offense coming to Clemson.
3- Offensive line coach Brad Scott will retire at the end of the season.”
Interestingly Dan Hawkins just got fired at Colorado. He is former Boise hot shot and the spread is his forte.
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
No faith in 1-3 or specifically 2 and 3?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Love the picture!
Thanks to all the Vets, past and who are still serving. Its people like you who give us the chance to do what we do. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Nov 11, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You're welcome
but I’m not into all the Hallmarky pictures and things. I just wanted to point out that despite being a veteran (just 4 years), I’m working on Veteran’s day. I’ve worked every single Veteran’s day since getting out 7 years ago (three different companies). Don’t you think vets should get Veteran’s Day off? Shit.
YES!
Hopeful I’ll get to enjoy the holiday after I retire, at least.
"Some people call it swagger, we call it preparation." - Vic Viloria
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 12, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
The genius, Heather Dunch has made her prediction:
Clemson 21, Florida State 20: This was one of the toughest picks of the week, but I’m going with the Tigers because their defense is better. Just ask NC State. Clemson held the Pack to 63 rushing yards and 13 points. FSU held the Pack to 189 rushing yards and 28 points. Christian Ponder’s health is a question, but regardless of who starts the game, Clemson will shut down the offense and do just enough things right to find a way to win.
Gimme some sugar, baby.
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Nov 11, 2010 3:42 PM EST reply actions
The logic of HD cotinues to be too much...
How both teams did against NCST will invariably decide the outcome of this football game. Enough said.
"Process-oriented thinking as opposed to outcome-oriented thinking."- CJF
That's "Skank Logic"
Gimme some sugar, baby.
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Nov 11, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wait, didn't BC beat Clemson? Didn't we beat BC?
Paradox?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
by tricknole on Nov 11, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
her head just exploded
>>>─────;;─►
by NorFla_Nole on Nov 11, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Her forehead has been bulging for a while
by norcal_nole on Nov 11, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd by Ken Griffey Jr. from the Simpsons

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
by ricobert1 on Nov 11, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't have a problem at all with her prediction or her reasoning for this game.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 11, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
well, problem being
FSU loses. That is a problem but think it is possible, especially since she says their D will shut down the FSU offense, Ponder hurt, etc.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 11, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
"Clemson has a deep football tradition"?
What does that mean? They have won ONE MNC in which they cheated like hell and beside that? They do have great fans and a loud stadium but their tradition is just slightly better than the Cocks, so i dont know how deep that is.
They definitely have a much better history than South Carolina.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
So you can't have great tradition without a title?
Then I guess Florida had no tradition until 1996 and Nebraska had no tradition until the 70’s. Auburn only has one title, great fans and a loud stadium but I suppose that’s not enough for them to have tradition either.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Sorry, I should have said "multiple titles".
Which I guess means Florida had no tradition before 2006.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Guess we didn't until 1999, then
Man, that sucks.
how deep do you think the cocks go traditionaly?
>>>─────;;─►
by NorFla_Nole on Nov 11, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
How on earth does the TWSS get rec'd instead of the original, intentional pun?
I think this needs rec reassignment surgery.
by arrdub on Nov 11, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'ing your astute observation, and giving my 2 bits on the original comment.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Funny as hell
Clemson will shut down the FSU offense? Nobody has shut down the FSU offense. The 17 points FSU had against Oklahoma even could have won the Clemson vs NCSU game.
Now granted some teams have shut down the FSU defense.
I hope our non tradition team can stand up to the glory of Clemson.
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
I hope our offense can stand up to the Da'Quan, The Pride of Clemson
If we can execute, we can win. Simple as that.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Well, good defences make it harder to execute.
If we don’t execute is it because we’re doing something wrong or because Clemson is doing something right? I don’t think it’s that simple.
But not impossible, and yes, it really is that simple
Clemson has a truly elite defense (#5 Defense when adjusted for opponents as per Football Outsiders). They make good teams look bad and great teams look average. On the other hand, FSU has a very good-to-great offense (#21 opponent-adjusted OffenseI) that can be expected to not make many costly mistakes. Taken together, it is far more likely that if we are indeed beaten, it will be that they have beaten us rather than we were beating ourselves.
Clemson’s true Achilles heel comes against disciplined offenses who put together long drives. They don’t generally give up the big play, but If an offense can play “small ball” effectively-stringing together long drives with lots of short yardage plays and few penalties-they can and do score touchdowns on the Tigers. This, incidentally, has been the exact pattern of Jimbo’s play calling as of late and we’ve been a very disciplined unit on the offensive side of the ball.
Since this is the strategy that stands out as giving FSU the best overall chance to beat Clemson and we have the ability to execute that strategy, it seems logical that Jimbo will use it. All we have to do is execute that game plan, and we are able to score, work the clock, wear down their defense and keep our own defense as fresh as possible-all at the same time. So I reiterate: If we execute, we win. Simple as that.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
I guess this is as good a place as any to throw this in the pot...
Since 1992, 10 of the 65 current BCS teams have NOT played in a BCS game, won their conference, or had a 10 win season – Baylor, Clemson, Duke, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, South Florida and Vanderbilt. I was very surprised to see a few of the teams mentioned on this list. Who should be the most ashamed to be in this company?
- Rob, Fort Collins, Colo.
First of all, that’s an amazing stat. Secondly, we can immediately eliminate eight teams from consideration — Baylor (until this year, the worst program in its conference), Duke, Kentucky and Indiana (basketball schools), South Florida (relative newcomer to Division I-A) and Iowa State and Vandy (no history of success). That leaves Oklahoma State, South Carolina and Clemson. You would think the Cowboys would have produced a 10-win season in there somewhere, with or without T. Boone’s money, but they’ve long played second fiddle in their own state.
The two that really have no excuse are South Carolina and Clemson. They’re in a talent-rich state, not far from even more talent-rich Southern states, with big stadiums and rabid followings. Of course, South Carolina has long been plagued by the Chicken Curse. And it plays in an extremely tough division (usually). Clemson, on the other hand, has no excuse. It won a national title. It often signs top 10 recruiting classes. We’ll forgive it the ’90s, when Florida State was at its heyday, but even Wake Forest has won the ACC more recently than the Tigers. Clemson wins this one, hands down.
And the sad thing is, Clemson is guaranteed to extend its streak at least another year, whereas South Carolina could finally win its conference and Oklahoma State will most likely hit 10 wins.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/11/10/cam-newton-mailbag/1.html#ixzz152JAhpKm
by arrdub on Nov 11, 2010 10:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Pretty amazing stat
but it isn’t true that Clemson is guaranteed to extend its streak at least another year. A win this weekend puts Clemson in decent shape to win the division.
You're right about that.
Clemson might even have an easier shot than USCe of breaking out of the class, via meeting the conference championship criteria:
USCe has to beat UF + Alabama/Auburn/LSU.
Clemson has to beat FSU, Wake + VT/UNC/UM.
10 wins also mathematically still in play both programs, but VERY VERY unlikely. Clemson has to win out, which means winning @FSU, @Wake, v. USCe, ACCCG, and then BCS Bowl. That would be an epic turnaround.
That'd get Dabo not only an extension but a raise.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Wake and USCe should be winnable
I don’t believe we will beat FSU, but think we will win the other 2.
USCe hasn’t beaten Clemson in back to back years since the 60’s I believe.
hmmm.
I do think USCe is a much better team than FSU though…I think you have a better shot against FSU. I thinkclemson beats FSU and loses a close one to the cocks.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 13, 2010 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
I would've thought they had a 10 win season.
That’s the only surprising thing about Clemson.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
The Chicken curse routine always cracks me up
The USC gator game will lose viewers Saturday night as the FSU game begins around the same time slot and usually FSU breaks TV viewer records many times. I think the gators will lick the cocks though.
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
I think the cocks will smack the gators in the face.
not to mention pound their balls down their throats.
Too much?
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
"No championships in 20 years is unacceptable and should not be tolerated particularly when Wake Forest wins one in this time period."
LOL – Wake sets the low standard
Florida State 45 Miami 17
Sorry to say, but they're gonna be from the ACC.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
you dont say?
Jimbo is the Tomas Crown of NCAAFB
by stevegrizzle on Nov 12, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions

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