Analysis: Florida State Graciously Accepts Gift From Clemson
For the first time in almost a year, Florida State hosted a night game in the Doak and the Seminoles pulled out a win over Clemson, 16-13.
I always feel that fans of one team fail to credit or criticize the opponent, so that is where I will start. Over the Summer I looked at the talent level of both Clemson and FSU, and concluded that Clemson had much more veteran talent while FSU's young players were better. I stand by that. Clemson has one of the best defensive lines in the country. Da'Quan Bowers, Jarvis Jenkins, and Brandon Thompson are grown men who will all be paid very well next season. They are very well coached on the defensive side. Clemson had a window to really dominate the Atlantic Division from 2005-2010. That has now slammed shut.
I will evaluate the performance against my pre-game expectations.
I expect FSU to run 70 plays for 368 yards (5.25 per play) in a battle of an excellent defense and an excellent offense.
Excluding the pre-half kneeldown, FSU ran 54 plays for 308 yards, an average of 5.74 per play. That was about 9% better on a per-play basis than expected and I am pleased with the effort. FSU's offense had only one turnover (Greg Reid had another). If you expected much more against Clemson's defense you haven't been paying attention. I will address the disappointing part when I talk defense.
I thought EJ Manuel played well filling in for Christian Ponder. He managed the game and made few costly errors. Fisher commented that he missed some checks that would have put FSU into a more favorable play, and after a bit of a shaky start Fisher put the cuffs on him and really reeled in anything that would require him to read the middle of Clemson's complex defense. As a runner I thought he was quite good. I said in the preview that Manuel is a better designed runner than Ponder, but not the scrambler that Ponder is. He really did a nice job on the option, knowing when to keep and when to pitch. I liked his balance on the designed runs as well. One time he really waited for his blockers to work, but on another he was impatient and left about 20 yards out on the field. Manuel showed good composure, was not asked to do things he was not ready to do, and importantly, did not attempt to play outside himself.
I also think people screaming to run the ball more are misguided. FSU's "great" running game is merely a decent run game. It was largely built against poor teams like BYU, Wake, and Virginia. Yes, FSU did run all over Miami, but it's not likely that another elite defense of Miami's caliber would get completely out-schemed like that again. Clemson's defensive line was tremendous all night, as expected, and that defense was not going to be run on in the traditional sense.
I was mildly disappointed in the play of the offensive line. I expected FSU to have a little more success run blocking the non-option plays, but Andrew Datko has no left arm and Rhonne Sanderson is a 4th-stringer, which won't get it done right now against 3 NFL defensive linemen. The pass protection was good, however, considering the opponent.
None of the backs really stood out and none of them are special. There is a reason FSU is taking three backs in this recruiting cycle. I feel terrible for Jermaine Thomas, but if his leg injury is as bad as expected, he will have a hard time ever seeing the field again with the talent FSU is now bringing in and the long rehab process he will face.
FSU's receivers played better than they had in the last two weeks. They weren't great, but Rodney Smith did make two nice catches and should have had two more. Kenny Shaw saw some playing time, as did Greg Dent, though Dent was ripped by the coaches on the sideline. Kudos to Beau Reliford for taking advantage of some very average linebackers for Clemson.
I thought the offensive coaching was good. Fisher tried a little bit of everything until he found some areas to exploit, and FSU did not ask its young QB to do things he could not do. Coach Fisher said Ponder should be back next week and that the rest will be good for him. That's great news because FSU is going to need its offense to carry this defensive front that looks to be toast.
While I was happy with the yards per play of the offense, the total number of plays was disappointing. That is on the defense. I wrote two weeks ago that FSU's young defense is hitting a wall. Make that smashing into a wall. The young defensive line has now been dominated for 10 straight quarters and there is nothing FSU can do about it. Without Markus White, this is a group of four sophomores and three freshmen who are getting blown off the ball on almost every play. We discussed this all off-season. These guys are not ready to play the number of snaps they are being forced to play and they are pretty much toast at this point. Losing Moses McCray (torn ACL in Fall camp) really does hurt here when he was penciled in for a projected 400 snaps this year.
I see Clemson running 65 plays for 315 yards (4.8 per play).
Clemson ran for 4.9 per play, so I missed on my prediction by 0.1 yards-per-play. What I didn't foresee, however, was Clemson physically dominating FSU's defensive line to the extent that it did, running 79 plays. That's 22% more plays than I expected.
Clemson ran an astounding 79 plays, including 47 in the first half (FSU ran only 18). That's more than Oregon runs in a half. Clemson kept FSU's offense off the field all day. And really, the Tigers gave this game to the 'Noles. Clemson should have won by 7+, but as our friends at STS explain, their idiot offense coaching staff went full-retard again. Why on earth Clemson threw 44 passes when its veteran offensive line is dominating the game via the run is lost on me and everyone else who knows ball. Nole fans owe a big thank you to Clemson for taking what should have been a Tiger win and turning it into an opportunity for an FSU victory.
The tackling was poor on the night, but it is difficult to take good angles when the guys up front are getting blown out of their gaps. At first glance the coverage on the night was very average. Xavier Rhodes is a talented corner, but Greg Reid is not playing well right now.
I really have trouble analyzing this defense right now and find it to be a pointless endeavor because nothing will change until the young pups up front get more physically mature via another off-season of lifting. It's not coaching.
FSU's strategy here is pretty clear. It is going to sit back in soft zone and make opponents execute down the field, perhaps hoping for coaching mistakes by the opposition as well (as Clemson did). FSU fans saw another potential response to the problem in the UNC game and FSU will not go back to that. It is better to die a slow death on each drive than it is to return to the defense of 2009. Most college offenses will make mistakes when forced to drive the field in multi-play drives. Depending on another team's mental mistakes isn't fun defensive strategy, but at this point it is the best one for FSU.
I give FSU's special teams an average grade. Dustin Hopkins made the three field goals, including the amazing 55-yarder to win the game. He also had four excellent kickoffs, which placed Clemson at the 20, 20, 18, and 16 yard-lines. Powell had a very average day punting, with one decent punt and a few poor boots. Greg Reid was terrible on the night and made the worst play of the game, fumbling in his own end on a return. With a mix of great and awful, I will give the special teams an average rating. Clemson's were terrible, however, missing two field goals and punting from FSU's 34 (punt went for a touchback).
FSU now has a winning conference record for the first time since 2008. It has eclipsed last season's performance and there are two games to go. Florida State has a solid chance to win the division. The 'Noles are currently tied with NC State, but the Wolfpack hold the tiebreaker. FSU has one remaining ACC game (at Maryland, 8 PM, ABC next week), while NC State has two: at UNC and at Maryland.
FSU is now 2-2 in its last four games, which is about what should be expected considering how it has played against a major step-up in competition compared to the earlier part of the year. FSU has now lost games in which it out-played its opponent and won games in which it was out-played by the opponent. Such is life for the 'Noles as this good but not great team will continue to play close games.
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Not matter how it happens, just give me W's this year
And pull in the elite recruits.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Great analysis Bud
I wasnt able to watch the whole game on my dvr, but as far as JT #38 goes, what was the early report on his injury?
I think the look on his face when he was on the ground said it all
I personally think he’s done with football
If it's a severe leg/knee injury, he may not play next year.
At that point, who knows if he comes back for a 5th year senior season. Guys like Pryor, Freeman, Beverly and Wilder may have the leg up on him.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."

I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
by SoCalNole on Nov 15, 2010 5:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is R-O-N-G
“Leg up” – Not even funny.
Does anyone just use timeouts anymore, or are they all "burned"?
by Ponder This on Nov 15, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Next week I expect our defensive line to do well.
I know the opinion of the writer is that the reason for the Dline getting little pressure is fatigue late in the season. I think it has more to do with the other teams gaining film on the way the front 4 has gotten pressure in the past. I expect more blitzes this week which will free up our Dlinemen a little more. Our coverage isnt good enough to rush 4 with other team’s coaches not having to account for many blitzes. SO……more blitzes, stunts, and different pass rush techniques will make all the difference(Brandon Jenkins spin move is old news now). Noles 31 Terps 24
But that is against the pass
Our issue is the run. Clemson should have run 50 times for 250.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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main issue is run, sorry
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I trust our defense against the run...
Maybe not the QB run but vs RB’s this year I think weve looked ok and will be ok going fwd simply because we have quick LB’s to fill the gaps. Of course we looked tired late in this particular game vs the rush because clemson had an obscene amount of snaps and a moose of an RB. How heavy was that guy?
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
what? they have been dominated v. the run last 10 quarters
Except for when we played 9 in box v UNC.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think he pics the most ridiculous point of view and goes with it
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
by RaysnNoles on Nov 14, 2010 4:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think this is the most ridiculous comment a loyal Bud-sheep can make
by LetsGoNoles on Nov 14, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not baaaaaaaaad
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
by ricobert1 on Nov 14, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why?
That guy continually makes ridiculous statements with an inability to back them up
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
by RaysnNoles on Nov 14, 2010 4:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea I know
But I just dont like when you guys seem to get all over someone trying to voice their opinion – opinions that are sometimes pretty good. No one is ever going to have statistical analysis to battle Bud and the gang … something that is pretty fair to say like " I think weve looked ok and will be ok going fwd simply because we have quick LB’s to fill the gaps " should not be looked upon as a ridiculous statement
I didnt know I was the ridiculous statement guy
The “RSG” if you will.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Do people just look for ways to stir up controversy?
There is no “Bud & the Gang”
Everyone on this site should be capable of backing up their own arguments. To suggest otherwise is silly.
Bud is a GAM and can handle himself in a conversation.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
There is a “Bud and the gang.” Though it’s not Bud’s fault. He isn’t telling people to take his side. It just happens.
If someone disagrees with Bud, usually Bud will make a condescending post. Then several people here will “rec” Bud’s post and say “owned” or something similarly stupid.
You can’t disagree with Bud on this site even though I think sometimes people have valid points.
ummmm
I have disagreed with Bud before, but the difference is I have real data to base my disagreement on.
I think weve looked ok and will be ok going fwd simply because we have quick LB’s to fill the gaps
when your supporting argument is how you think something is, you don’t really have a supporting argument.
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by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
My opinion was that weve looked ok vs the run
and will be ok vs the run going fwd based on the fact we have quick LBs to fill the rushing lanes if our d-line falls off a little here and there.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
did not last night.
Dline isn’t going to fall off. It has collapsed
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Guess we will see
Even if Maryland’s offensive line isnt great it will be able to block this young Dline that has hit this “wall” you speak of. Time will tell. I believe they will play with good energy this week.
by cerebralfish on Nov 15, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
hope we bring some creative blitzes maybe
and not just the bare minimum. Help that DLine out. They’re obviously getting stoned on many more plays against average OLines. Do SOMETHING, change SOMETHING. Don’t just let it keep happening and then hope for an interception on a tipped ball near the goal line.
The bend but don't break is what we should do IMO
We saw what happened against UNC when we crowded the line and blitzed. Do you prefer Moody and Parks in coverage? I don’t.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
The bend but don't break is what we should do IMO
We saw what happened against UNC when we crowded the line and blitzed. Do you prefer Moody and Parks in coverage? I don’t.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that they aren't great in coverage
but I think we’re underestimating decent team’s ability kill the clock, keep us at a disadvantage with field position, and tire an already thin dline out.
Im not at all for sending the house blatantly like we did last year (everyone walking up and no one fading back into coverage) but IMO we have to mix it up better. You have to take that risk sometimes. I know that we are going with the bend don’t break but you have to have 3 and outs if you don’t want every game to come down to the last few plays. Giving someone like TJ Yates or Parker all day to complete 7 to 9 yd passes isn’t the answer.
I’ll chalk this yr of playing an obscene amount of base D to the inexperience and the need for the players to fully understand the concepts. Next year these types of long sustained drives can’t be given up just for the sake of saying “we bend but don’t break”
I don't expect them next year at all
Perhaps some more blitzing is in order. I don’t know what trust level the coaches have in the secondary. Cannot be too high.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
We need to find more creative ways to get some pressure.
While I agree we don’t want to leave Moody and Parks out on an island, we have been somewhat successful with the corner blitz.
We have 39 sacks. I don’t know how many time Rhodes has blitzed, but he has 2 sacks blitzing from the corner.
Our LB’s have 8 sacks (Nigel=4, Jones=2, Mister=1, T. Smith=1), which is somewhat surprising because it always seems to me they are coming up the middle instead of coming from the edges, and always seem to get blocked up the middle.
We need to do something to help our d-line get more pressure and I would like to see more corner blitzes from the nickel package or drop a linebacker or d-lineman into coverage, or even turn one of the safeties loose on the QB so that they don’t have to cover.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I bet this week we get pressure w/o much blitzing
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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we need to put this game to bed early
if we let this sorry team nickel and dime us all the way down the field, we have a problem that has nothing to do with personnel
I can't see that
until it happens
"…You can't get enough Lonnie Pryors on your football team." -Eddie Gran
In response to "Dline isn't going to fall off. It has collapsed."
We’re still 10th in the nation in rushing defense with 110.9 YPG average. And Clemson is currently in a six-way tie at 15 for sacks allowed with 1 per game, 10 total. A five way tie at 13 for tackles for a loss allowed with 4.3 per game.
I blame their piss poor running game on their backs… but I have a feeling that their OL is REALLY underrated.
DISCLAIMER: Everything posted by DutchFSU operates under the premise that Christian Ponder remains healthy during the entire 2010 football season. As well as the entire Seminole offensive line, most of the cheerleaders, and quite a few of those seated in the student section. Maybe even a hot dog vendor.
I understand and respect your opinion
I was more going against the old “Bud and gang” routine.
Some people want to know why and saying “because I think so” doesn’t satisfy some people.
Not saying your not entitled to your opinion, but I think TN has become a very quantified analytical site. Because of this, the inclusion of non-quantified opinions do seem to not sit well, per se, with others.
But don’t think of it as a direct attack, but more of a want for a deeper understanding of why you feel a certain way and what precisely caused you to feel that way.
Sorry not trying to soap box but I have this talk with my fiance every now and then, but she still gets incredibly annoyed with me sometimes lol.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't make football sense
we have quick LBs to fill the rushing lanes if our d-line falls off a little here and there
Most of the time if your dline is blown off the ball the LBs can’t fill rushing lanes because the LB at POA will be blocked. By the time anyone else gets to the ball there will be a 2-4 yrd gain. Also if the LBs or S feel they have to come down to make a play everytime they see run then you get killed with the PA.
Just have to hope the front 4 forces enough stalemates to not give up the farm.
by osceolafan2.0 on Nov 14, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well not to totally defend the statement
watching a replay of the FSU-Penn State bowl game from several years ago they mentioned FSU being one of the top teams against the run. I did not see several superstars on the Dline when watching, but I did see stud linebackers on that team. Not to say this year’s linebackers are as good, but perhaps with really good linebackers you can cover for lesser Dline play against the run.
I’m not saying Bud is wrong, usually he is right. Even though often the arguments are heavily opinion based and there is no right or wrong. My biggest problem is the harshness of the community here. There’s no need for this to transpire:
New person: “I think Jimbo’s offense sucks.”
Bud: “Are you stupid? We average 9001 yards per play.”
Sheep1: “Lol owned.”
Sheep2: “Some people are so stupid”
Sheep3: “I’m amazed how dumb some people are.”
Do not have time to give a thoughtful critique to everyone who posts without thinking. Not that you are.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Would we be sheep if we would have had the same reply in Bud's absence?
My 5’6" self went crazy on another student last night when he started a chant saying “WE WANT MICKY BACK!!!”
I yelled “Hey retard! Mickey was dominated last year! We have given up 10 points in 3 quarters! Shut the (expletive) up!”
He got angry but he shut up
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
point is
Am I a sheep because I agree with a statement? Maybe if I blindly followed with no thinking on my own part, but who do you think on this site follows Bud blindly without truly giving logic a chance?
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yes if you are one of the people who constantly says “rec’d”, “lol”, “owned”, “idiot”, etc. to Bud’s snooty replies.
by theseminole on Nov 14, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sheep
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
I have my own opinions as well.
You know what they saw about statistics. I watch the team and look at each weeks matchup and I use a little of both. Every week I hear were not good at the run and when the game is over we average over 5 yards per carry.
Every week I hear our defense is getting worse and yet they lead in sacks, picks, and have had the worst calls go against them that I can remember. I mean holding on punt for a first down???? WTF was that?
I think we can run for 200 yards against Maryland. We keep the defense fresh and we are solid in special teams. We win. Bottom line.
UF beats us. As I see it now no matter what stat you throw out UF has a bye this week and FSU will be their bowl game. No doubt about it. Fact is, with the everyone calling you and idiot because of some stat or number they dug up….screw em. Unless of course you doubt me..Then you’re and Idiot who will get Owned.. Have fun guys and Go Noles!
I was just continuing the trend
I think this entire debate about “Bud’s crew” and all these clique accusations are middle-school garbage and beneath us as (mostly) adults here.
lol
oops, just became a sheep to theseminole.
but seriously, if someone says something stupid and are given smarting and logical rebuttal, and then rec’d and congratulated for said rebuttal, they are sheep???
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t have to be a one word irrelevant replies. It’s the general mentality of this community to agree with whatever Bud says and to gang up on any dissenters.
Not everyone is like that.
I speak from experience. lol
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
What if people agree with Bud because the data is sound?
FSU: 8-4 or bust
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 14, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
As I conceded, Bud is correct most of the time. My gripe is with the unnecessary rudeness and how quickly a mob forms. It seems like a cult here at times.
This stretch of comments isn’t a great example, but it happens often enough. It happened more when Bobby was around. Bobby supporters would wander in sometimes and would quickly get runoff.
by theseminole on Nov 14, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree there is a bit of "If you don't agree with us then leave" type attitude.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Rec for proper time
and usage of verbal abuse.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 14, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think you know if your a sheep
its not so much on your knowledge of stats or the program, but more so towards the way you post and the what you post about and the rebuttal posts you make (not you as in you, but you in the general form)
I thought that was funny.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Do you have some stats to back that up?
Just kidding, but stats are for baseball where it is 1 vs. 9. The beauty of college football is with 11 on 11 and an oblong ball anything can happen. Otherwise, Bud and his sheep would all be in vegas making millions.
Does anyone just use timeouts anymore, or are they all "burned"?
by Ponder This on Nov 15, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I've disagreed with Bud on many, many occasions and he is the one that pays my salary. Oh wait.....
If it is a quantitative or statistical issue, you should have data to support your argument before posting, otherwise the nerds here will tear you apart.
However, I do agree with you to a certain extent that many members, and not necessarily all the staff, agree with Bud on most OPINION BASED issues, just because it’s his site and he is the one posting his thoughts. I also recognize that many members, and not necessarily all the staff, SOMETIMES follow blindly and don’t openly accept differing points of view and are quick to revert to a gang mentality.
But in many cases, some of those differing opinions are so misguided and out of whack with reality that there is little hope of knocking some sense into that person and sometimes the site is better off without them and their disruption (the loyal Bowdenista’s, as where brought up, are a good example). And when I say the site is better off without them, it is usually by their own choice.
Here is my final thought, if you ever have a opinion on any subject, whether it agrees or disagrees with Bud’s opinion or with the majority of the members, put together a well thought out FANPOST and post it. You might be surprised that people may agree with you, but understand that you will probably hear from those that disagree with you.
I do promise you this, you will not be attacked personally for your opinion.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I've noticed it too, Nattylite.
Still love the site!:) go Noles!!
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2010 8:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think they really got dominated against the run in the 1Q
In the 1st, Clemson had designed runs for 2, -2, 10, 0, 2, 5, 26 (TD), 1, -7, 3, and -4 (botched handoff). That’s 7 of 10 plays (8 of 11 if you include the botched handoff) for 3 yards or less.
Clemson had 10 designed runs for 40 yards (11 for 36 if you include the botched handoff, they also had a 12 yard scramble by Parker). One of those runs was also the 26-yard TD. That play never happens if Christian Jones isn’t called for holding on their punt.
The big problems in the first quarter were not stopping Clemson on 3rd down pass plays and giving Clemson first downs by penalties.
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what
Was the -7?
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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The play where the guy got stuffed right when he got the ball
Dawkins missed the tackle but McDaniel cleaned it up
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
2Q
Designed runs of 8, 1, 3, 0, 5, 0, 4, 3, 3.
Here, They started to get a little more consistent with positive runs. They also started to abandon the run a little more, but partly due to some penalties putting them in throwing situations.
Our offense also had 2 3-and-outs in 2Q, so perhaps the increased performance on their part can be attributed to fatigue.
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
they were really bowing us off the ball there
Our backers made some nice defensive stops to prevent big plays
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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perhaps. wasnt consistent though.
CU consistently in favorable 2nd downs
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Mostly kidding
Although those 1st and 2nd quarter numbers lessen my perception of how badly we handled the run.
No wonder at times
this reminded me of the NC State game. We never won on first down therefore the vast majority of their 12 3rd down conversion were very manageable. Harper ripping us apart reminded me of just that
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 14, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Nolesblogger is making fair points here.
Outside of the obvious outlier (the 26-yard TD), the defense wasn’t nearly as bad against the run as you might have thought. Take away the holding penalty on that first CU punt — which I didn’t see and struck me as a pretty odd call — and you would’ve had a better performance, too. Clemson’s production increased on the ground because the defense wasn’t getting help from the offense. Beyond that first 53-yard bomb, FSU was putting up less than 2 YPP in the first half, if I remember correctly.
It’s fine to look at the game as a whole for YPP, but, again, if we’re going to harp on process, it’s fair to note that the offense only decided to show up for the second half. You can’t ask your defense to spend two-thirds of the game on the field. That’s not reasonable. The offense deserves some criticism here, Bud.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher
by Drew J Jones on Nov 15, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
And...
…all of this is to say nothing of the fact that the FSU d-line, of course, never gets held.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher
by Drew J Jones on Nov 15, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Not so fast, my friend
Didn’t Clemson get called 2-3 times on Saturday? It was amazing!
I think they did.
This wasn’t the travesty that some of the others have been.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher
by Drew J Jones on Nov 15, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
2-3 times?
I remember the 1st very well, because it broke the streak… they got called for a couple more afterwards???
Ooooh, there was a phantom call, too!
Just as was predicted. ACC trying to buff its stats and all…
DISCLAIMER: Everything posted by DutchFSU operates under the premise that Christian Ponder remains healthy during the entire 2010 football season. As well as the entire Seminole offensive line, most of the cheerleaders, and quite a few of those seated in the student section. Maybe even a hot dog vendor.
3Q
Designed runs of 10, 7, 7, 1, 11, 5, 8, 6, 3.
Here, is where you can say they really should have just ran the ball the rest of the game.
Again, their increase in productivity could be due to fatigue.
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
4Q
Designed runs of 1, 3, 15, 2.
Clemson abandoned the run, because they were behind and also had some bad penalties (consecutive false starts). They were down 3 with plenty of time so abandoning the run probably was a bad idea.
I think the main reason they had success running the football was fatigue. Our run defense got progressively worse until they stopped throwing in the 4th. If the offense had managed to stay on the field more in the 1st half, then stopping the run may not have been a problem.
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Combo of youth & lack of depth ...
As said before, losing Moses & White’s injury have hurt us …
If we play VTech … I expect that they will have no issue pounding the rock all game.
You don't abandon the run when you are down 3 points
That doesn’t make any sense. There is no justification for why Clemson abandoned the run.
And there's your answer
I sat next to a high school coach from Northeast Florida. And he nailed it on the head, that CU loves the screen game. They’re very good at it. He told me that he visited CU to get their package and he told me that CU averages 7 yards per screen called! Which is why they run it so much.
BUT…BUT…BUT you get in the red zone and the secondary doesn’t have as much field to cover. And the screen loses its effectiveness.
He all but guaranteed me that the CU decision making in the red zone would be bad.
The yards per screen called are awesome but the way they knocked us off the ball at times was very disturbing.
On another note, I wanted Harper to be our fullback when we were recruiting him. Have to confess, I love the screen game, think it plays well to our line personnel and Harper has dynamite hands, witness the diving catch he made against Auburn for a TD. 3/4 of our receiving corp can’t make that catch. Or, if they can, they don’t.
He is an excellent receiver. Think I mentioned it in the preview (maybe not, was rushed)
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Not only is he a great receiver
He is a friggin’ LOAD to tackle. He looks fat in uniform. He probably needs to drop 10 lbs to play tailback really. But I am glad I’m not asked to tackle him.
Although, even at 235 (my guess) the play where he jumped over Parks was amazing. I wanted to be mad at Parks but really, it was hard to be too upset.
The night could have been much different for us, also though, if we could have taken advantage of every turnover chance that was there for us.
Defensively, we get the hold on the punt but also, their LT was in motion twice on their TD “drive.” Get that call and if Rhodes makes the pick 6, completely different night, I think.
I observed it similarly.
Our defensive line wasn’t getting completely owned until they had been on the field for waaaaaay too much time. The first drive, even, the consecutive 4th/3rd down conversions off penalties broke their back.
They are young, they are fatigued, but they can play well enough IF we avoid stupid penalties AND the offense can avoid 3 and outs. A challenge, yes, but a complete lost cause, not quite.
agree
They weren’t doing a bad job really at all in the first half. Stopped them more than once but penalties, YAY! but spending more than 20 minutes on the field in the first half is recipe for disaster. Glad Dabo didn’t realize this.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 14, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. How many FSU penalties on third down resulted in giving CU a first when they should've had to punt?
The offsides hurt.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Could be as many as 5
Clemson had 5 first downs from FSU penalties.
by michaeljsweeneyjr on Nov 15, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Time of posession in the first half was ridiculous
Of course, you have to give Clemson’s defense credit for that.
Florida State 45 Miami 17
by SeminoleMike on Nov 15, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
Do we?
I think their offense/our defense deserve most the credit. And Fisher going French Vanilla in the 2nd quarter.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I thought the defensive penalties were the story of the game - especially in the 1st half.
One led directly to Clemson’s only TD. Not sure if they were legit or not. Sunsports didn’t show the penalty replays.
In total agreement.
Minus, I don’t know, maybe 2 penalties and Clemson scores 3 points all night. Maybe 6.
I could not for the life of me
see the holding call that gave CU a first down after their first punt. I call BS.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
yes.
Also, I’ll try to get some scree stills for evidence, but the second to last drive, Smith ABSOLUTELY hauled in the long catch. His first foot was in bounds as he snagged the ball and it did not move AT ALL, then his other foot went out of bounds. Wasn’t even reviewed. Robbed.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't his first one, that was reviewed, a catch too?
On my old school standard def TV, I saw green between his toes and the white of the sideline. And I didn’t see any sign of bobbling. I thought for sure it would get overturned and ruled a catch.
He bobbled it late.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
He did, but his toes were still down inbounds before he stepped out with his contralateral foot after regaining control.
That was how I saw it. Catch. Not a catch. Catch. As I saw more replays.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Had someone else tell me that too
bobbled it but got it a catch again before going out. Have to watch it again.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Might have been me in the game thread. Not sure.
I thought it was a sure catch and the one in the 4th was a sure no catch.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
was a person in the real world.
haha. Only glanced over 4th quarter comments.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Half time comments are where it's at.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Speaking of which
Is there a reason the game threads aren’t formatted for mobile phones? I usually read up what everyone is saying during half time when I am at the games. Its not that big of a deal, just curious.
No idea on that.
Maybe email Bud using his email at the very bottom of the page.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
You should be able to.
Of course my phone really struggles once there are a lot of comments over a certain amount. I also have a hard time loading any web page when I’m at the stadium. Thanks for sucking AT@T.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 16, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
I thought they let us get away with holding
and CU held as well
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I've been saying since the third game of the year that if Greg Reid is still starting for us at CB next year we are in trouble.
I know the kid is talented but he makes some of the most selfish and ignorant plays I have seen since Rix was still playing QB for us. I recall one play last night where it was obvious Harper (I think) was going to run down field and Reid peels off of him and covers the receiver like it is going to be a half-back pass when it looked pretty obvious he was past the line of scrimmage. I just don’t think he wants to tackle anybody. Harris is no bigger than him really but he does not hesitate to put a hat on you. Just my opinion.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
Why? So he can make more stupid plays like dancing, running backwards and risking a fumble on every carry.
I don’t know about you but my @ss gets sore enough already from the clinching every time he has the football in his hands now. I am constantly chanting, don’t fumble please, don’t fumble please.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
Game changer
If it wasn’t for a missed field goal last week, he would have been the star with his magnificent return.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
He is an all or nothing player ...
He won the game with the great punt return against Maryland last year (EJ did great – but without field position it would no have happened).
His return against UNC gave us the chance to win it …
I think he also helped us big in the BC game this year …
His interception against BYU last year was the difference maker in that game (before that … did anyone have any doubt that BYU would keep scoring … that gave us the equivalent of a 2 TD swing).
Of course … his all or nothing style results in fumbles, lost yardage, and near fumbles. Too bad he can’t reel in his riverboat gambler tendencies on his returns until a huge return is actually worth the risk.
He shouldn't have been the star either way
He had a terrible game in coverage and was partly the reason we needed his big return
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
I am so glad to read that I am not alone in my opinion about Reid.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
by NoogaNole on Nov 14, 2010 5:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you're being a little excessive though.
I think he had a bad game, but he isn’t a bad player, just a young player.
As for the tackling issue, there was another Noe CB who never tackled anybody but that didn’t really stop him from being dominant. (And no, I am not saying that I think Reid doesn’t need to learn to tackle.)
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Reid is a great return man and
an average, undersized CB. He might develop into something better but as of now sometimes I wish we had an average bigger CB. Rhodes is average but at least has the size to be more physical. Not to mention he’s only a freshman. i see him being a better player but im not ready to sit G5 down by any means.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Devin Hester was never his team's defensive MVP in spring.
I don’t think Hester ever even broke the starting CB rotation.
Reid is a soph… we know he’s an elite athlete… and the coaches have him starting for some reason… so let’s see how this plays out.
Question
What makes you say he had a terrible game in coverage? espn 3 went out for most of the 2nd quarter and some of the 3rd but if i recall from the rest of the game that i did see he handled his zone ok, nothing terrible. I know Rhodes got beat deep early on in the game and Parker over threw the ball, but I don’t see anyone saying he had a terrible game. You have to remember that the zones they are playing are designed to keep everything in front right? I know i get frustrated as hell watching team after team after team catch passes on FSU but then i realize thats what the defense is desgned to do. This is better than watching them run free down the field for long TD passes such as the case was against UNC and all of ’09
He wasn't the worst
But all the DB’s were bad.
by nolesblogger on Nov 14, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
P-Rob did not get beat very much last year
teams just knew they could throw to the other side with 100% success
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
P-Rob did not get beat very much last year
teams just knew they could throw to the other side with 100% success
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Hes part of the defense
How many other players could we have said we needed a big play from to make up, and which player(s) came up with one when we needed it most?
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
So who do you see as the two starters between Joyner, Harris and Rhodes
next season? I am pretty sure Rhodes will be one, but if you think Reid is not going to improve would you say Joyner or Harris?
if only he were able to see the play from where you were sitting
Back away from the panic button, G5 is still young and is still in a 1st yr defensive system.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care where I am sitting, he's scared to hit people.
He would be just as effective if you took his shoulder pads away and gave him a bullfighter’s cape. I don’t have to be capable of playing college football myself to see that. I am not pushing the panic button, I am just not impressed by him. He did some great things last year but in my opinion, based on his performance to date this year, he is over-rated.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
I agree with you.
Fisher made the comment that he is a player who is always in the right place and the right time and from what I have seen he was dead on. He makes plays, hits people, wraps up and gets up and goes on like it is no big deal. He’s done it and knows he is going to do it again. He doesn’t need to tell the world he made a big play.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
While I know that it's part of the package with highly talented 19-20 year olds
…meaning when they act like they’ve never made a tackle before.
It really does make me appreciate guys like Harris who have the “no big deal” attitude after the play.
I think Werner is that way too.
No big deal doesn't make it to ESPN
We need as much exposure as possible.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
We need to make tackles
Exposure will come from wins.
FSU: 8-4 or bust
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 14, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
We need to score touchdowns
Exposure does come from wins, but that’s not the only way to get it.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
IMO rabid celebrations after "routine" plays aren't a means to more exposure
We agree about the TD’s. A few 20+ point blowout wins would help too.
FSU: 8-4 or bust
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 14, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Stilts...
Harris is a better db at this point in G5s career. Werner will be a star, IMO.
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2010 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Harris is the only defensive player I've felt the need to create a nickname for.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Meh, nothing special or anything.
Just “The Phenom”. I said he’d have a big game vs. Miami in the game thread and he wound up having a big game. Only offensive player I’d give a nickname to is Pryor, but don’t have one in mind.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
how about
Lonnie “the team player” Pryor. That guy is selfless and such an integral part of this team.
Lonnie "The Team Player, World" Pryor
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I agree Stilts...
Harris is a better db at this point in G5s career. Werner will be a star, IMO.
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2010 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im not sure on actual play counts
but it seems to me that the cornerback situation is very fluid, with everyone getting a good amount of reps. Harris has become one of my favorite players on defense, but you still have to get reps to the young studs like G5 and Joyner as well. Functional depth is a glorious thing to have and will be an advantage moving forward.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
100% in agreement
Seen far to many positives in Harris this year and thats not the case with reid
He is overrated by what standards?
He wasn’t particularly good in coverage last year, and he is going through growing pains this year. This is not the NFL, this is a 19-20 yr old who is trying to get comfortable in this defensive scheme. His mistakes are there, its just unfortunate that people bash him because he is not living up to T-buck’s standards as a true sophomore. Stop hating on him because he enjoys playing the game with enthusiasm, the defense as a whole isn’t very good and is still a work in progress. Enjoy the win, G5 is going to make a lot more good plays than he is bad ones.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't seem to be improving
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
by RaysnNoles on Nov 14, 2010 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Change of system is important
Its not a light switch for everyone, probably the most intricate system he has ever played in. I expect a real improvement from him from year 2 to 3, but i could be wrong.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to a certain point
But he isn’t exactly a student of the game
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
by RaysnNoles on Nov 14, 2010 4:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im not aware of his off field work habits
but i think it falls on the coaches to get him to become more of a student of the game. But i do think that a maturity threshold will be crossed, which is why i am confident that he will improve next year.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I question his desire on defense.
Even when he follows the system perfectly and is in position to make the tackle immediately following the catch, he has a 50-50 shot of throwing a shoulder only into the guy. That has lead to so many unnecessary yards after the catch. Give me somebody that will tackle consistently.
Ah, the shoulder tackle
Perhaps GR5 only LEADS with his shoulder, and plans to WRAP UP the runner with his wings.
Someone should tell him his only wings are on the sides of his Nikes…
I have no question at all
about his desire and enthusiasm on defense. I honestly do not know where you think he has shown a lack of desire. Give me a playmaker and his flaws.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
His desire to make plays is evident.
His desire to improve on his game in an area that has obviously hurt his team- questionable. How hard is it to wrap up? The hard part is getting there and making contact. Not sticking your arms out is a severe lack of focus, effort, and desire to get better. He plays very undisciplined defense.
This is even more disapointing because of his talent and
natural ability to change field position all by himself. I hope he continues to mature. The CB position cannot be boom or bust.
2010-GR5 is worlds better than 2009-GR5
He’s also improved as the season has progressed. Only reason the stats aren’t as gaudy vs earlier is that we were playing pushovers for the first half of the season and lots of people don’t account for that.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
I think he has improved greatly from OU
His tackling is a work in progress, and the cornerback position is more than tackling fundamentally( everything about tackling is hard, its not flag football), it involves coverage and assesement. I believe he is playing hard every play, and is becoming more and more competent. I just don’t understand how people can be so critical about a progressing player. Tough crowd.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 15, 2010 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
God, there are 17 of you's? lol
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
He is overrated in the fact that he was a 5-star corner coming out of high school.
He has all of the pysical tools to be a 5 star player. I am not disputing that. The kid is a hell of an athlete. And I am really not hating on him. I’d love nothing more than to be proven wrong and he turn out to be all world, trust me. But right now I see a kid who doesn’t want to hit or be hit. Last year he was very effective at returning punts because he attacked the slightest of openings with no fear (TWSS, before anybody else does). This year he is constantly dancing, running backwards, you name it. Get up the field for crying out loud. And tackling, do you really want to go there?
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
He almost won us the game against UNC with his return.
He’s a sophomore though, i mean do you really expect a 5 star high school kid to come in and play like T-buck in his first two years in two completely different systems? I honestly think his tackling could use work, but thats expected from a guy of his skill set. I think he still gives great effort in trying to make tackles, and is just learning how to get his feet under him, hes never going to be a steelers type cornerback, though. Hes an intriguing player, and can change games with his ability. I’d rather him be on my team, than not.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
He did make a nice return to set us up nicely for a game winning drive but..
how many of the great returns this year has he had for each return he has danced, ran backwards, lost or nearly lost the ball, etc. GET UP THE FIELD. I don’t care if it is an unspectacular 5 yard return because it beats seeing him lose 10 yards trying to make something from nothing. Our offense, and defense for that matter, cannot afford for him to put them in bad field position by running backwards. If i am wrong, then I am wrong, but I don’t remember the high number of negative returns for each great return he made last year. I know team are kicking away more, etc., etc., but he has got to approach that with maturity and not put his team in a bad spot trying to make something from nothing.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
I agree to an extent
I think maturity is a key factor, and i expect a big improvement for next year. However, no one on this roster is replacing G5 back there, hes special. But i thought we were discussing his CB prowess?
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Does not have to play like TBuck
How about like Rhodes and Harris at least?
It is a new system for them and Joyner as well.
Other true sophomores have made big impacts in college football for years, not just TBuck. Some even as freshmen.
Hes progressing well and i am satisfied with his performance this year.
You do know that Rhodes and Reid have very different responsibilties? Of course rhodes is a better tackler, but i saw 3 instances against CU where he was beat for a touchdown, being saved by bad passes. There all young, let them mature. I think Harris is great, hes older too. Why don’t people enjoy the functional depth we have right now?
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 15, 2010 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
He wouldn't have had to "almost win the game with his return"
If he wouldn’t have blow 3 coverages leading to 14-21 points… Thats my point with Greg…Dude is an amazingly talented runner with the ball in his hands. In coverage he is clearly work in progress. There is no doubting talent just the mental preparation of the game.
I have never done this before but
rec’d
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
Agreed that this is a little excessive in criticism
but Greg needs to wake the eff up out there.
I would start Rhodes and Mike Harris against Maryland.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Nov 14, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
one more thing...
Sure was nice to see a WR who looks like a WR making plays. The other guys are slot guys to me. More 6’4"+ wideouts please!
+1
Reed has lost his edge. Put the mightymite in the slot. Put the men outside.
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2010 8:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good observation. Still hoping he will leave the ACC at some point. He’s way too good to have to face so often.
He was not special teams coach..for a while it was divided up
then last two or three years was just Jody Allen.
Great for recruiting, too.
DISCLAIMER: Everything posted by DutchFSU operates under the premise that Christian Ponder remains healthy during the entire 2010 football season. As well as the entire Seminole offensive line, most of the cheerleaders, and quite a few of those seated in the student section. Maybe even a hot dog vendor.
Clarification: He was a great recruiter at FSU.
DISCLAIMER: Everything posted by DutchFSU operates under the premise that Christian Ponder remains healthy during the entire 2010 football season. As well as the entire Seminole offensive line, most of the cheerleaders, and quite a few of those seated in the student section. Maybe even a hot dog vendor.
What if you promote Steele?
I would think the guy has been waiting forever for his shot; or has he resigned himself to being a top asst forever.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Steele is good
but not keep an idiot as HC to keep him good. And they almost lost Steele last year anyway. There is always a chance the DC stays though, Strong did it when Zook was canned.
by osceolafan2.0 on Nov 14, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I've been asking that very question over at STS.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Bah...I misread your question.
Read it the other way around (Do you lose Steele if you keep Swinney)
No pickle at all. If you fire Swinney and replace him with a proven head coach, then Steele is replaceable. You’re in a real jam if you keep Swinney and Steele bails.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
You don't keep a bad HC to keep a good DC
No pickle there.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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You think Steele is their next HC?
I thought that was why he went there in the first place. I think Dabo gets one more year but they will be hard pressed to promote from within again.
No
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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This is true.
But it does make it a little more painful, and the future more uncertain. Hopefully they lose ALL their FL ties.
Three players off the team
Will those of you who are a lot smarter about the program comment about Harley, Jackson and Alexander leaving the program. As the season has progressed, many of you commented that you thought Jackson and Alexander were not expected back. I have not heard much about Harley not coming back. Why are they dismissed in the middle of a seaon rather than the end of the semester?
were not dismissed. They quit. Will probably finish school semester
Harely wasn’t working out. Many issues like health. Where he transfers will be telling.
5 more to go I suspect.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I thought you said only 4 players would leave out of that list of 12-14 you posted the other day?
Or do you mean 4 per semester for the fall and spring?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
telling in what way?
As in if he goes somewhere not for football, it was a health thing; but if he goes to play ball it was a “not getting it”?
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
I hate it when players injure their work ethic.
I guess it’s just one of those fluke parts of the game.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
End of 12th week of semester. Deadline for late drop with Dean's permission.
This is per FSU’s schedule. I think it allows them to successfully leave the university without any admin baggage, methinks.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
CU pulled a Opie/WVU bowl game
Thanks for throwing it. Suckers.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
Backups.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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At least 5 more guys will not return.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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not really. Just let it play out I guess
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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My guesses - Wade, Ed I, Commack, Gehres and Bright.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
Still cant believe Wade and Bright are still on the team.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Bright???
I thought we put away Hungry Hippo a long time ago.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
Justin Bright the safety. The kid we probably took just to get a crack at Lattimore and the two D-line guys the next year.
Not Callahan “not so” Bright the defensive tackle.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
Thank you.
I lost a couple hours sleep thinking he was still on the team.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
Gehres?
He seemed to catch what came his way, from what I remember.
Speed and blocking the issue?
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
He's caught passes?
Not being a d*ck, but I don’t recall any?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
He caught passes in pregame :)
But seriously, he wont catch any if he can’t get open.
However Terrell Owens can get open against just about anyone but can only catch half the time and he makes millions.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 15, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
he has a couple game catches.
in nothing time I think.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
Oklahoma I think
At the end. I was pretty drunk by then, and may have been crying, but I believe I saw him and said to myself, who is that? He looks a little different than the other receivers.
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
I would replace Gehres with Moses McCray
Medical DQ is my guess.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Nov 14, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
You'd replace a guy who would have played probably 400 snaps this year
with a guy who has maybe played 10-20?
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
only one year left and that type of injury
usually takes longer than a year to get close to 100 percent. Would not be close to a 400 snap guy next year.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I think he could be a pretty dependable guy next year.
He’ll have had 12 months of recovery by the time 2011 season starts. That’s a long time nowadays. Could be a huge boost to our defense the 2nd half of the season if we held him out until then, too.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
well,
hopefully from initial reports, not that bad. He was so emotionally wiped out riding into the tunnel (showed it on sunshine). Really want him to be ok.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
We're talking McCray, right, not Thomas?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
well...
uhhh…huh? Yeah, originally, then SQUIRREL!
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Squirrel in Over the Hedge is pretty awesome imo...
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Key words from your post:
“would have played”
I am simply guessing what the coaches will do.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Nov 15, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Our defense got pushed around all night BUT
(Big But) they only gave up one touchdown.
Florida State 45 Miami 17
Thanks to Clemson being idiots
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Kind of like the Mimai game
hard to imagine the other teams O scoring fewer points with the yardage they got
True but, I give our guys some of the credit for that
Florida State 45 Miami 17
by SeminoleMike on Nov 14, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Why??
Curious
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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The coaches try to put the players in a position to succeed
but, ultimately someone on the field has to make a play. We got just enough of those, and I hate to discount them.
Florida State 45 Miami 17
by SeminoleMike on Nov 14, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Defense wasn’t great but when they had to make plays, they made just enough. They can only make plays against the ones that Clemson actually ran, not the ones that Clemson should have run.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
by tricknole on Nov 14, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That interception by Rhodes was a gift from above
I did like the way the defense showed composure in the red zone
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
The int left on the field
by Rhodes which was a pick 6 wouldve been a bigger gift from above.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
That would have been sick
Hes still young, but we can all see flashes of his amazing ability.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I’ll agree with this. We saw last year that it is possible for a defense to be so bad that they can’t even stop a stupid offense.
by 38Noles on Nov 14, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Florida, Texas and Clemson have been recruiting for years
So why is it they lose Tebow, Spiller and McCoy and face such huge offensive struggles? I know those players were huge for those teams, but the teams had been pulling in star recruits behind them so you would think they just reload like powerhouse teams usually do and keep going.
Actually Clemson is somewhat believable to me because they are not a powerhouse team.
Then again Clemson unlike the two powerhouses did not lose their QB, they lost a RB so even without Spiller you would think good running backs/WRs would be able to make up for some of his production.
My personal theory
is a mental trap the coaches fall into. Take UF and Tebow, for example. Despite my lack of respect for his ability as a quarterback, Timmy was clearly an exceptional leader, a devastating runner and at least an average college thrower. When put into the Dan Mullen spread option, he was the absolute perfect combination of skills to run that offense. He also started early, in his sophomore year.
So with early success with a guy that does things nobody else can quite do as well, you become tempted to try to recruit guys who are especially suited to support that one player’s strengths. In doing this, you create an inflexibility in your team, an inability to adjust as quickly either if that one guy is injured, or when he graduates. Urban brought in guys specifically to work with Tebow, but was short-sighted and didn’t plan for life after him. You have to think he knew this right about the time he retired for a day, and I think he’s seen this coming. He knows he screwed up, and you can’t just slap a bandaid on it to fix it. He’s got amazing talent in Gainesville, but he has no clue how to use them because he doesn’t have that lynchpin to rely on, and he doesn’t know anything other than the system Mullen brought along with them from Bowling Green to Utah to Florida.
Texas might fall into this category. They were lucky as all hell to have McCoy to take over for Vince Young; young Mr. Gilbert can attest to that right now, and is another example of recruiting to a specific player or players. Clemson, well … they just don’t have coaches that know what they’re doing.
I don't know about this analysis-Urban's a better recruiter than you think
Urban Meyer knows who and what type of player fits his system. The problem is, bad luck and bad things still happen to people and programs. Urban Meyer is nowhere near as hapless as you’re making him out to be. Case in point: Cam Newton. Think about this: Cam was originally signed by Florida and he would have been a redshirt junior starting for the Gators had he not decided to buy a stolen laptop.
Imagine that-Florida’s present offense, only with Cam Newton running the show instead of Brantley. The rest of Auburn’s team isn’t any more talented than the rest of Florida’s. UF might be undefeated and looking at their third MNC in 5 years in such a scenario. All that had to happen for it to unfold as I described it is for Cam Newton to decide to not buy a stolen laptop and for Newton’s family to show some patience.
Now ask yourself-how badly did Urban Meyer really screw up? Is he hapless, or did he just get unlucky and this is the unhappy plan B-muddling through the next 2 years while his preferred star player makes national highlights on a conference rival’s roster. I think the evidence shows that Urban Meyer knows how to recruit and build a team that fits the needs of his scheme and that the Brantley years are just an anomaly-a quirk of circumstance.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Good point on Newton
But how much is it really “his system”? According to at least one writer (see: http://chuckoliver.net/?p=8447), meyer isn’t the offensive guru he’s reputed to be. Granted, they still went 13-1 last year, but timmy’s production declined.
He’s a heckuva recruiter, certainly… ooo! Ooo! Can we say that meyer and uf are now “one player away”???
A couple of points
A) Yes, it’s Meyer’s system. Chuck Oliver has a good point, but he misses the mark in a crucial area. Whenever anyone changes operational procedures, the boss is always in the loop-always. Offensive systems don’t get changed without the Head Coach’s knowledge and involvement, period. Maybe he didn’t draw up the new scheme, but he’s the man in the big chair-you’d better believe Meyer knew what was going on, signed off on it, and was the first one to learn the new system.
2) Tebow’s stats: By definition, every year can’t be exceptional. There’s the phenomenon of regression toward the mean that happens in any set of numbers. But I don’t discount the effect that Addazio had on UF’s attack, either-he’s no Dan Mullen, and it shows. I look for him to be gone by the end of the season.
D) UF-one player away? Yes we can say that-and we should, if only to tick off Gator fans! We got real lucky that Newton had sticky fingers, and we ought to rub it in just a little.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Well
On the A, I know the HC has a say in what system is utilized (he does hire the OC, after all), but is it “his” system in the sense that meyer is the brains behind it?
If not, then meyer won’t be able to “fix” things so easily (as you say, Addazio is no Mullen). And I would like that very much, heh heh.
I don't think that matters much anymore
It may take lots of brains to design a system, but it takes fewer brains to copy that system and run it. The Meyer/Mullen scheme is proven and already out in the world now-the hard work’s already done.
Meyer’s problem is one of personnel, not scheme. He doesn’t need to reinvent the wheel so much as find someone who can ride a bicycle. The Gators need a spread OC, and there are plenty of them around. If Meyer hires one of the better ones, he hands him the playbook, goes over it with the new guy one evening and the Gators are back in business.
And you’re kidding yourself if you think Urban doesn’t understand the system Dan Mullen designed. His recruiting choices scream otherwise. You don’t recruit Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Trey Burton and 3 other elite running QBs if you’re clueless.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Overall, I agree
But I do think there is a drop off from… hmm, how to phrase? Mullen seems to have been the offensive guru – it’s one thing to have a playbook and understand its concepts. It’s a bit different, though, to really be able to utilize it thoroughly, I think: coaching the players (or, developing), calling the plays, making adjustments, etc.
There does seem to be a drop off since Mullen left – and I’m sure when Richt left that Jeffy had the playbook, but the results weren’t really the same, were they?
As far as the recruits you mention, most of them were recruited when Mullen was on staff, no? (All but Burton.) Even so, it’s one thing to find a compatible talent, but another to coach/teach/develop that talent for the system, right? I don’t think he’s clueless about the offense, just that it probably won’t be run as effectively as it was.
I do think that long run uf will be fine (too bad), but as several people have noted meyer’s team(s) don’t look invincible anymore (and many have flat stated that Bama has passed them).
Obviously losing Teebow was big
But I think the loss of Fernadez (whatever the TE’s name was) is just as big. That kid knew how to get open underneath…no telling how many times he made 3rd and 4th downs very short…right up TT’s alley.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden vs UNC 15-1-1...Jimbo 0-1
Cam Newton would have been switched to TE if he was still at UF
Sounds crazy huh? But evidentally, it’s true
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
It's not true unless you have some pretty convincing evidence to validate it.
He was 2nd string before he left.
Info from a Gator mod who's info I 'personally' trust
Don’t care what depth chart supposedly said. Once his suspension was served he would have been flipped (He chose to transfer instead). No kid who could beat out Brantley was gonna be kept at QB. It’s the reason Reed is a TE now when he’s their best QB
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Can't/won't believe that.
Unless the mod is on the coaching staff. Generally I think gator nation is in state of shock looking at their current situation, and rationalizing what they see.
No way Cam isnt’ starting for them right now if he’s on the team. He was the heir apparent before trouble, and if trouble wasn’t sufficient enough to get him booted/force transfer, then Meyer wouldn’t let scruples get in the way of wins.
Brantley was the guy.
Then the coaching staff finally said hey we need a 250 qb to run this type of offense….damn. Bet they recruit a running qb asap this season even though they are loaded at that position. They are 3 deep now and will recruit 2 more. Maybe even switch a safety or LB that played qb in high school. Cam would have started after the second game. No doubt!
Didn't they take a running QB last year?
Some 2-3-star guy from up north or something?
Yea, Reed, in 2009.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I could care less what you believe. I prefer an insiders knowlegde over an idle "opinion"
I’ll leave with this since this has degenerated into a needless pissing match. There’s a reason Meyer evidentally had to pull strings to keep Cam at UF after his trouble ( Cam choose to transfer instead), Shoelace was never offered as a QB (Though he was a gator the moment they did), Randall was offered as a WR (Very insulting and arrogant move), and Brissett was offered as a GS. No legit threat to JB is gonna run while he’s there. Once again Reed was moved to TE when he is their best QB
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
If things went the way it should have
Cam would be the starter as a RS JR and Shoelace would be the backup as a RS FR. But that is TOTALLY not what transpired. And why? Nepotism evidentally
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Not pissing with anyone!
Really no hard feelings at all. Just saying it’s a really, really strong assertion… and apparently based on the hypothetical that he would be allowed to stay on the team but not allowed to play position of choice? That’s just a weird scenario, pretty much without precedent.
Since it is a hypothetical, I’ll choose to believe that if the biggest talent in CFB wasn’t kicked off their squad/suspended, he’d be playing the positiont that would help them win. (And, yes, just my my opinion, but in the case of hypothetical scenarios, I don’t think my opinion carries any less weight than an insider’s.)
Just saw the nepotism angle come up… appreciate you sharing the information, very intriguing…. but again I can’t believe that any circumstances would outweigh the present pressure to win. They wouldn’t be able to justify Cam not being on the field with the struggles they’re having. None of the QB’s on their roster are even on the same playing field as an alternative — so maybe the nepotism holds up when the other options aren’t so clearly superior to Brantley, but I think there would be a full program mutiny, well beyond anything FSU saw with JB at FSU, if they had Cam (Tebow v. 2.0) and didn’t put him under center.
Just glad to see gator nation is so screwed up, one way or another ;)
Believe me I wouldn't bring UF info into an FSU thread
if the individual didn’t have a track record for being spot on. Especially since I’m no insider and don’t purport to be. I don’t bother sharing most of the stuff on here since it’s not relevant to FSU most times. I just like to “know my enemies” so to speak. But no one knew Cam was gonna be THIS good (Not even Aubie) or I would THINK…..repeat……THINK some concessions would have HAD to have been made. So I’m with you there. And TBH most Gate insiders thought Cam’s “official” reason for transferring was BS (Tebow staying his SR year) FWIW
The nepotism angle: Yeah, I guess there’s a reason they wouldn’t snatch JB out on sat even though he was stinkin it up(I’ll leave it at that since I’m just a lowly ‘poster’. lol). Evidence is somewhat circumstantial yes,but there’s alot of it (Reed being moved to TE and no potential threat to JB being offered at QB though everyone knew Shoelace was a stud, he wanted to be a gate and fit their offense. And them screwing around other QB prospects like I mentioned above) . I’m thinkin UF has begun to give us the opening we need. As Bud replied to me months ago in a thread “Yeah we kinda need them (UF) to ’screw up ’” Glad the cracks are forming. We’ll just agree to disagree on the details
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
But no hard feelings though, Arrdub
Just thought the stuff was interesting and decided to post it
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 15, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
It was "interesting" enough that it evoked a strong reaction.
Like, “what the heck is going on in hogtown???”
Great when folks bring behind the scenes info like this to the board. Appreciate it.
So there really can be
one player away? lol
Apparently so.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
And if we didn't have a qb get drunk and eat some random girls hot dog, another qb do something with a fake check(?), have a qb get Lyme Disease, another qb decide to play baseball, and so on and so forth, we'd be just swell, too.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I think Zebrie is a pretty good OT at the CFB level
but he got dominated by Da’Quan last night. DB would come off, extend his arms and purely on leverage drive Zebrie backwards. Zebrie is 300+ and strong, and he got just destroyed. I don’t ever want to see Mr. Bowers in Orange and Purple ever again.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
Bowers is the beat player we have faced since Percy Havin
IMO
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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that's fair i think. he really is a freak of nature.
and ricobert, i don’t think we ever will see him in orange and purple again. he’d be an idiot not to take the money and run.
I'd love to see him in Pewter and Red
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2010 8:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Imagine what UNC's D-Line would have done to us
Without their 2 huge suspensions ….
so you think FSU has looked worse vs the rush than the pass?
UNC did the majority of its damage throwing on big plays. That backup RB for Ncstate played well but Wilson took a lot of our defense’s attention. I think the only way a team can beat us is through the air. I dont think anyone will pound the rock for a whole game and be able to put up enough points to win.
you realize why UNC had all that passing success...
And NC State blew our guys off the ball.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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What do you think will happen against Maryland?
I have not watched them play but I know they have a decent back in Scott.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
we will handle them becauae their OLine is not good and people will
Claim our problemas are solved and will be way overconfident against UF.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I didnt think
we could beat UF. Ive counted that as a probable loss all year, but damn they look TERRIBLE. We might have a good shot
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Our defense ...
will make UF’s offense looks like studs … they have done it for the last 4 games.
not so sure
Im not sure Brantley can hit a wide open receiver even if we blow coverage. He sucks….so far.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
He can hit wide open receivers
But I don’t think Adazzio will call a play that includes them.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Er
Unfortunately, the bad play calls may accidentally get WRs open. There’s still our D to keep in mind… (I kid, I kid)
At this point in time I don't think you can argue Brantley's that good.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Brantley is merely starting due to his last name
Sounds crazy, I know. But Burton’s not even UF’s best QB option. The third best option (JB) will start until he graduates evidentally
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 14, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, really don't get their qb situation.
I don’t know who their qb coach is, either, but I doubt he’s very good.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Can we stop the dive?
Gate fans seem to think that any team that can shut that down will destroy UF’s offense.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
If they run it with Rainey/Brantley, yes, I think so.
Which I think is more their frustration than the play itself.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Yeah South Carolina has a really good defense
FSU’s is probably more comparable to UGA’s right now.
While I know that is not the most pleasing result
I’d rather have that than hear about yet another back having a career day while going against our D.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
That makes the UNC game look like an overreaction
either by our coaches or the players to helping out the run and leaving the deep stuff open. Last night looked more like how we schemed vs. NC State against the run (i.e., no safety help).
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
and please use the reply feature.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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you cant convince me
that Parks letting WRs 10 yds behind him all game was because he was so focused on the rush. Our safeties were lost.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
UF can't throw or run
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
Clemson couldn't either before our
game…
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 14, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly
How should the FSU D and uf O matchup be described? Easily resistible force meets easily movable object?
by Invictus13 on Nov 14, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Me, too, unfortunately
But, hey, I’ve always had that game down as a loss. If we somehow pull it out, I’ll be ecstatic.
A Battle of No Wills?
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
UF can't catch.
I think Brantley is a good passer who they constantly put in a position to fail. He does overthrow from time to time, it looks to me like all the motion/options/QB subs never let him get in rhythm. It’s like their trying to screw with him. Driskel is gonna be the same way.
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
You know more about the stats than me
so you might be right about the rush. I guess what Im trying to say is the rush isnt near as much of a threat to FSU as the pass. I think the rush seems to peter out vs. our defense and eventually leads to FGs whereas those big pass plays are 7 pts all day. UNC had pass success before our guys had enough time to be afraid of the run.
we were afraid of the run all week because of jow NC state dominated up front
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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This is off topic, but quick question for Bud
With all of your in depth analysis, and ability to decipher game film, up and down, did you ever think about coaching?
If Bud knew enough to coach
He would be coaching….. It pays a little more than being an analyst. LOL no disrespect Bud!
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
and being an attorney pays more...
No offense taken
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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depends on who your coaching....
wah wah wahhhh…Im talking big boy football. The kind you analyze.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
ur a lucky attorney to be making that much more while simultaneously
keeping up with this site every day. Hope you continue to have that luxury. Only lawyers I know able to spend that much time on other endeavors are pushing 60 (not sure if you’re not pushing 60).
Hm I hope your bosses know that
I don’t think mine have gotten the memo over the years…
by BayNole9 on Nov 14, 2010 9:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can tell you why Clemson did not run more
They are already missing Ellington and Harper ran 27 times for 143 yards. That is a bigger load than he has ever been asked to carry. Their other backs are simply not that good.
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
No.
They didn’t run more because their coaches are dumb. That is the ONLY reason. FSU could barely tackle. Dlineman were making plays 7 yards past the line of scrimmage. Clemson runs the 20 more times and doesn’t go for field goals, they win easily.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I will not argue with you that Clemson's coaches are not dumb
The man’s name is “Dabo”
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
lol
I can’t fault your reasoning. . . except I have heard of someone being named Jimbo before.
Dabo. . .ehhh not so much.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I was wondering the same thing about not overusing Harper, but Bud says
it was more to do with poor coaching by Clemson so you are WRONG! lol
Clemson's offense left at least 13 points on the field due to bad playcalling
This game’s not hard to diagnose: Clemson’s O was well-prepared and executing whatever their coaches gave them. Unfortunately for them, their coaches gave them one crappy playcall after another that squandered drives and allowed an awful kicking game to dictate the fate of their offense. Meanwhile, we were being blown off of both lines, our run game was nullified and we were 9:00 behind on TOP.
All other things being equal, there is NO reason why we should have won that game. None.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Anyone else afraid Ncstate
has a really good chance of winning out?? UNC was exploited this week and Maryland isnt that good. Damn I hope they lose.
Good news is NC State isn't that good, either.
Both games are road games for them. They probably drop one.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Agreed. I just hope
Ncstate is the worst of the worst.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Did UNC rest people?
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
72K something
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
From inside Doak looked like more by the end of the 1st quarter
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Really did.
Looked like 75K plus.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 14, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Easily
not 80+, but I would say between 75-80k
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
However, don't they take that number from the time of kickoff?
I could see it being 72k at kickoff so I think trick could be right.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know.
Saw someone say 72K-something elsewhere.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
The official stats were 72K and some change.
I don’t think they take it from the intial kickoff, or we’d really be screwed.
I think attendance has been bogus this year.
Been a few games where it’s looked like we’ve been short changed a good 5k given the crowd I saw in the late 1st/early 2nd quarters.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Yeah, by end of 1 qtr all full besides upper rim in little scoreboard endzone.
And more students packed into sections than seats, I would presume… surprised it wasn’t 78k or so.
UF
Anyone concerned about the possibility that we have a championship game the week after UF (and they don’t) Is that a big advantage for them, or am I overthinking this?
Florida State 45 Miami 17
i'm pretty confident that no one will be looking ahead when we play that little team down the road
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 14, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Huge advantage is the bye week they scheduled
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Appalachian State is a bye week?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
pretty much
I’m hoping UF quits for the season since they’re so spoiled. I expect FSU to be more ‘UP’ for the game than UF.
Probably. Even though they're ranked #5 in 1-AA (last I saw), they have their playoff run to consider.
They’re likely to have a bye the week after Florida but I can’t see them going all-out against the Gators with the post-season around the corner.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
To be giant killers TWICE? Hell yeah, they'll play.
DISCLAIMER: Everything posted by DutchFSU operates under the premise that Christian Ponder remains healthy during the entire 2010 football season. As well as the entire Seminole offensive line, most of the cheerleaders, and quite a few of those seated in the student section. Maybe even a hot dog vendor.
App ST
is likely to limit a lot of their starters because the UF game means almost nothing to them. They’ll be going into the playoffs and need everyone healthy and fresh
"…You can't get enough Lonnie Pryors on your football team." -Eddie Gran
If the game is anything resembling close, their starters will not sit on sidelines rather than take chance at beating UF.
"We"
the mighty Fightin’ Apps would like to turn your attention to 2007. Ask Michigan if we rested any starters in preparation for Southern Conference play.
But wasn't that the season opener?
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 15, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Please don't rest any starters!
You could win the FCS title, and few people would know about it.
If you beat uf, the entire country will hear about it. And, the entire country will be reminded about Michigan.
A win over uf would probably do more for the school and program than a(nother) FCS title, so go give it your all! Oh, in fact, I see the AppSt athletics site mentions the Michigan win in the same breath as three consecutive FCS titles:
“While the Appalachian State University football team garnered three NCAA Div I FCS national championships between 2005 and 2007 – and upset the University of Michigan in 2007 – Mountaineer athletics has more to brag about than just its gridiron success.”
So, go kick the gates in the groin. God speed, Mountaineers!
Excellent.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
Sorry - meant we MAY have a championship game
didn’t mean to assume we get there at this point
Florida State 45 Miami 17
by SeminoleMike on Nov 14, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Three minor edits
“put the cuffs of him” – of = on
“FSU did not ask tis young QB” – tis = its
“none of them are special” – are = is
Wouldn't
“None of them are special’ be correct? I don’t know, it just sounds weird saying "None of them is special’
by RoyalOaksNole on Nov 14, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Long time English class debate
is “none” the same as “not one of them is special”?
or “none” as in “not any of them are special”?
I have been told differently by different professors, therefore I simply avoid its usage when writing formal papers.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Nov 14, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd for I have no idea
Just thought that was great.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Rule of thumb
Take “of them” out. None are special, versus none is special. “Are” is the way to go here, “none is” makes for very clumsy wordage.
by tuckwell on Nov 14, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, you are right (see FCB's reply, too)
It is acceptable. The use of “none” is one of those rare times that the object of the prepositional phrase affects the verb. Weird.
Appy State
Honestly I think App State could play with Duke, UVA, or Wake. Theyve always been in another league from their competition. UF will at least have to show. Not saying UF wont win by a large number but wouldnt be surprised to see the mountaineers hang around for a half hopefully more.
use the reply feature or don't comment
I have asked multiple times now
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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reply
even when not replying to a specific comment? Didnt know. sorry
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
meant for the App State thing above
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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off topic a little
App state is an hr down the road from me and I would suggest to anyone who finds themself in that part of the country during football season to attend a home game. AWESOME atmosphere!
I realize that we are having trouble stopping the run
and that Clemson gave us the game by not sticking with running the ball.
Bud, do you think our relative “success” in the red-zone, i.e. holding teams to field goals could come from our safeties not having to cover so deep and being able to help with the run?
It seems like our defense tightens up near the goal-line and I’d like to think that has less to do with effort than it does with the passing zones shrinking.
If I recall, Clemson did try to run the ball on their last drive….. and we stopped it.
could be. interesting
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Not that you're not busy enough
But if you do a play-by-play on this one, I’ll ask you to watch one thing and see what you think.
Seems to me that when not backed into the endzones, the safeties are obviously stretched deep, worried about the pass, then when they realize it is run, they (especially Moody) has to run full tilt towards their gap responsibility, making them less likely to make a good tackle and all we get to see is Moody flying from off-screen to lay the haymaker on the running back.
Then in the endzone, they don’t have to panic to make it to their gap responsibility and they seem to make more “thorough tackles.”
Just my perception, and hopefully an extra year will help them diagnose plays more quickly.
Here's your homework assignment:
Do Bud (and the rest of us!) a favor and check out Clemson’s possessions once they got in red zone:
http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=303170052&period=0
Just pull out the running plays after they get inside our 20 or 30, and see if they’re running below their average. Would be interesting if we found out that they had failed a couple times earlier trying to run down our throats, and ended up settling for the FG attempts — possibly the explanation for why they tried to sneak in the fade route.
Thanks
So here’s what I got for in the red-zone
4 trips to redzone – Total 11 plays (5 run and 6 pass) – total of 6 points
5 runs – -4, 5, 6, 3, 2 (12 yds at 2.4 ypc)
6 pass – 3, 0, 0, Int, -2, 6 (7 yds at 1.17 ypa with one turnover)
total – 19 yards at 1.73 ypp
1st trip
Run for -4
Pass for +3
2nd trip
Run for +5
2 incomplete passes (one of these we actually made Parker roll out and run out of bounds for no gain)
3rd trip
Run for +6
Run for +3
Interception
4th trip
Run for +2
Sacked for -2
Completed pass for +6
Interesting..
Went back and looked at summaries myself to see context.
I think on trip #2, that was a designed run by Parker, as I recall – naked boot, where they thought he could beat us around the corner, we did a nice job of sealing and running him OOB. Not Harper, but it should count as a rushing stat.
Also think you missed one possession that got inside the 25? Call it possession 3B. Drive started at 11:04 in the 3rd qtr, they got a 1st and 10 on the 22:
1st and 10 incomplete
2nd and 10 false start
2nd and 15 screen pass to Harper, 1 yard
3rd and 14 flats pass to Harper, 5 yards
4th and 9 missed FG.
Overall, looking at these, it does seem to validate that they were pass-happy. However, a whole bunch of the passes were essentially runs: screen passes and flats passes to Harper. So I’d say the distribution of playcalls is a bit misleading, because so many of those passes were to Harper, right around or behind the LOS.
To be sure… I’m not defending the Clemson coaching staff. In fact, I’ve been on board the “Clemson’s Coaching Staff is Horrible” bus longer than most. In this game, particularly, the decisions to throw on 2nd and 7 (that led to INT) and the decision to punt on 4th and 3 from our 36 were horrible decisions.
On the other hand, I’m not going to say that Clemson completely dominated us in the game and handed us the W. After all, by our trusty YPP measure, we won by a measure of 5.7 to 4.9, and had basically the same rate of 3rd down conversion (9 of 18 vs. 6 of 13).
So what was the difference? I guess # of 1st downs achieved on 1st or 2nd down, to keep drives going? Looking at all 1st downs, it’s actually surprising to see the # they converted (on any down) via the pass. A quick count says about half of those conversions were via the pass… would they necessarily have done better if they had kept it on the ground more frequently in those situations? Can’t be sure….
I thought the red zone started at the 20
so I only counted those plays… sorry.
I did the play distribution from memory, but I do think I remember Parker looking like he was going to throw on that bootleg.
You might be right on red zone! Not sure.
I guess for the purposes of what we were looking at, it’s kind of arbitrary where you draw the line…
I guess the original intent of the analysis was to see if less room behind safeties = better run defense, right? Unfortunately with the limited data it looks to be an inconclusive result…
I would count all the screens as runs as well.
I thought there game plan wasn’t too bad. They ran ok, used quick throws and screens to slow any rush and avoid turnovers. I think all of their turnovers were on deep passes and there was at least two others of over 10 yards that were real close to being picked.
Yep.
Coming into the game, anyone in the Clemson world would take have taken their stat line (aside from points) if you would have offered it to them. I’d say their scheme gave them more success than they should have expected, overall, but had just a couple costly errors/bad decisions that changed the scoreboard.
They’re taking the success they had for granted, as if it was inevitable that they would dominate our DL. They were only able to do that late in the game because other circumstances, including pretty good offensive strategy early on, kept their offense on the field a lot longer than they would have thought possible.
Yeah, everyone is forgetting that Clemson is pretty bad on offense.
The match up with our d line and there terrible offense should have been in our favor. They have worse WR than we do and their rb is average at best. We left our D out there for 20 min in the first half…..imagine cutting that number in half? How fresh would they be?
See today's post on that
Was CU’s 2nd best game of the season offensively!
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
What's the word on Jermaine Thomas' knee?
All I’ve seen so far is that its “sprained” which sounds like a BS answer given before any real MRI is taken… his reaction and the ref frantically waiving for a trainer along with him not putting any weight on it as he left the field points to much worse than a “sprain” whatever the hell that is.
Feel bad for the kid…
I have a worse feeling about JT's knee but with that said
I was at the UVA game and watched Joyner get carried off the field and carted to the locker room before the game was over never to return. I thought for sure he was done for a couple games at least and he played the next week. That was an ankle though. Ive hurt both and I can say while an ankle is nagging a knee is devastating.
by cerebralfish on Nov 14, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Hyperbole?
Wasn’t UF’s class last year better than anything we would be able to put together … & praised as the best of all time with the DLine studs?
I hope they proclaim themselves the Heat Big 3, too.
(Even though their are 6…)
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
to those who are down on GR as a CB, why does Jimbo/Mark stick
with him so much?
Is he the best option? the best practice player? the one who gives the most on on every play?
I keep hearing how bad he is, so what do the coaches see that we don’t?
If he is the best option, then I guess we better hope he improves or the incoming guys are better.
As for his lackof tackling, I don’t get why that get improve with more weight training and practice, practice, practice.
He dominated in the Spring game ...
I think that they see not only the potential … but the huge upside.
Having said that Jimbo/Mark love the “process” – so if he is putting himself out of position, I would imagine that he would find the bench quickly.
Interesting question though … and one that has been repeated often.
Stoops has trained college greats at the position
He sees the ability G5 has, and knows he is the teams best option. He’s not bad, people just need to learn that not every athlete is a prodigy, and that he carries a heavier burden than most as a sophomore in college.
FSU
by DS_fear_the_spear on Nov 14, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
We were/are seriously depleted on D, but part of it is also his age.
Reid’s being competent out there right now, but he’s not elite as a sophomore. He’s making mistakes common to young players and those mistakes are being exploited. That’s to be expected-it is only the rarest CBs who have no bad habits and can excel as a sophomore against Junior and Senior WRs from major conferences on a weekly basis. Most players’ capabilities turn the corner between their sophomore and junior years. GR5 just isn’t there yet physically, but he will be.
The name Tay Cody comes to mind here. He was likewise so good that we couldn’t afford not to play him early, but as a freshman and soph he got beat a LOT and looked very average. It was only in his last two years that Cody lived up to his potential and became a CB that took away half the field. GR5 will get there too-he just won’t get there this year. But that’s ok: this is kind of FSU’s throwaway year, and all of this PT is building toward the future. He will be a strong point on the D for next year and beyond.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Loved Tay Cody's tackling ...
For a small guy – he would lay the wood (so to speak).
Weird
That’s the same thing I see with GR5, only he can’t actually do it yet. To me, his problem is he always needs to make the Highlight play (see blocked punt ‘return’). He wont just run straight downhill, and he wont just wrap up a back in the open field. If he learned when to make that highlight reel play, and just play fundamentally sound the rest of the time, he’s already be a star. CB’s are going to get beat sometimes, otherwise we’d play with Parks and Moody as LB’s instead.
Whenever I think of Tay Cody
I think of the front-page photo in the Democrat of him reaching backwards over his head to fingertip-deflect a pass intended for a UF receiver in the end zone in Gainesville in 1999. Without that play FSU may not make it wire-to-wire.
Tay Cody was an excellent CB and I hope Reid evolves into something like him.
My guess is
that since the S can’t be counted on yet we need a CB who can cover a wider area. You can’t put Joyner in there because he would be lost. That leaves Harris and Reid. G5 is more athletic so that could give him the nod since I would think they should be equal in playbook knowledge. G5 also has more upside and so that could be a factor as well if the two are close in ability right now. Not like we are out and out losing games because of Greg, he just is nowhere near as good as some of these announcers make him out to be during the games.
by osceolafan2.0 on Nov 14, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
FSU opens as a five point favorite. MD is fraud but FSU heavily banged up
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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When healthy, Dowling at UVA is the best in conference
Others that may be better currently, include:
B. Harris (Miami)
J. Hosley (VT)
K. Burney (UNC)
WAR PAINT OF TN
Not yet. Perhaps top 5
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Walk on kickers don't want to miss at Clemson
“Cat man needs to retire because he’s in school and some stupid Clemson fans, just like they all did to Jad Dean, are going to heckle him and threaten him. I’m from Greenwood and Jad has repeatedly talked about how fans called him atleast 20 times on his cell phone, his home phone, his PARENT’s phone, and left him DEATH threats.”
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
Random Comments
When Clemson lined up for a punt on 4th and 3 at FSU’s 36, I said to my wife, “This coach is an idiot.”
I wasn’t playing very close attention to Clemson’s play-calling sequences, but if my big back was gouging the other team at a clip of 5 yards per carry with no fumbles, you would have a very hard time getting me to pass as much as they did. That said, I definitely didn’t feel during the game that the other team’s stupidity in this area rose to the level of last year’s UNC game or the Gator Bowl. Granted, that’s a pretty high (low?) bar for coaching stupidity.
One thing seems obvious about college football: there are enough stupid coaches out there that quite a few games can be won just by playing smart and letting them blunder the game away.
I’m definitely not an expert, but our playcalling in the 2nd quarter seemed pretty pedestrian and even put me in mind of “earlier times,” not a feeling that I would like to have again. The rest of the game was better. (I hate this sequence: (1st down) long incomplete pass; (2nd down) inside run for little or no gain; (3rd down) run or pass way short of the sticks when the other team is willing to give you anything short of a first down; (4th down) punt.)
I think that bad offense in the 2nd quarter in particular contributed greatly to the defense being on the field far too much, but obviously the defensive penalties were a big problem too, especially in the first quarter. Other than the first quarter, I suspect that the defense did more or less what it was designed to do: keep the opponent out of the endzone and hope they make a mistake. That’s probably our best strategy right now.
All the negatives were greatly compensated for by the fact the Doak seemed to be rocking for the first time in I don’t know when.
Greg Reid does need to learn to tackle. I really like Rhodes and Harris and would probably start them at the corners, but all or our corners are getting a lot of PT, and I can’t think of any reason to doubt Stoops ability to evaluate players in this particular segment.
I hate to say it, because I think he’s a good guy, but
I don’t think that Bert Reed should see the field again this year. I can only remember two passes to him, and he dropped them both. He has been a disaster in the last three games.
At first I was sure that Jermaine Thomas had torn his ACL, but I tore my ACL once, and it wasn’t immediately all that painful (the first few weeks after surgery and during rehab were a lot worse). Thomas seemed to be in agony. I suspect that a bad MCL sprain would be more painful, and it is far less serious, so maybe there is reason to hope that Jermaine will be ok. Of course it could be both.
That said, we definitely need better, more consistent tailbacks. I hope that at least one of the freshmen will be able to contribute right away next year.
I watched quite a bit of the UMD/UVA game and Maryland’s defence looked terrible. We should run all over them.
I think part of our playcalling problems
came from a legit fear of Clemson’s front four. It seemed like after we tried and failed to run up the middle a few times everything was thrown off until we brought out the option. CJF said EJ missed some checks that would have put us in a better position, but he should have had him check the sideline before snapping the ball if he was missing that many checks.
by osceolafan2.0 on Nov 14, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think our play calling was awful 1st half
6 carries by tailbacks the whole first half. We start the backup qb just so we can put the game on his shoulders? I know that we are only slightly above average at the position and that we are a little banged up on the OLine but I don’t really see that as an excuse.
I like EJ’s ability to go down field but Jimbo did him no favors on the playcalling. Clemson is a tough D, and it was especially tough when there is no type of commitment to running the ball.
Manuel is a running QB
Running him gives us the numerical edge we needed to run on Clemson probably.
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what is your issue w the play calling?
my eyes tell me its mostly an execution problem. there are plays to be made. FSU (mostly WRs) doesnt make them or isnt capable of making them (running game last night).
the option was the only effective way FSU could run the ball. With Ponder out, CJF didnt want to put EJ out on the line early and i dont blame him.
What did you want to see run?
harder? no. Smarter? yeeeeeessssss
catching third down passes is not an effort problem, but usually a mental problem.
Hitting the correct holes isn’t an effort problem, it a mental problem.
Making incorrect pre-snap reads is not an effort problem, but a mental problem.
Alot of our mistakes can be remedied with experience and familiarity with the system. Oh, and injuries are really hurting our ability to succeed (Ponder, Haulstead, three guards, Datko, Markus White, and now Jermaine Thomas)
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by freshcollegeboy on Nov 15, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
How can you tell that we aren't capable of running?
We came out throwing and when the lateral runs out of the shotgun didn’t work the first few times, we totally abandoned the whole aspect of the offense. If we’re going to run the option fine, but its not like we had a nice flow to the option calls until the last qtr.
To answer your question…yeah, I wanted to see run. It wasn’t just execution. That’s what got this team in trouble with the last coaching staff, blaming everything on player execution. Coaches have to put the team in the optimal position to win the game. I too believe in the program’s encouraging “process”, (I’m gonna nut punch myself if I hear process again) but that doesn’t eliminate accountability in a game by game basis. Jimbo is an elite qb coach and would be a great CEO type in my eyes. Me thinks that Jimbo gets caught up in the game and his adjustments come way late.
I think our offensive coaches adequately gaged that we could not run block them
Would have liked to see some option earlier, but we only had 18 plays int he first half. Tough to probe and find what will work there.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
What about in some previous games?
When the runs were picking up more yardage on average than passing plays, but CJF kept calling more and more passing plays, with Miami being the exception, and of course that game being a big output day.
Which games were those?
I don’t remember a recent game in which our runs were gaining more yards than our passing plays.
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It's not the results, it the PROCESS.
(I’m gonna nut punch myself if I hear process again)
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
i think the better question is personnel related...
why the “Stud” freshmen WRs cannot get on the field is beyond me… if the offense is that complicated that 8 games in you still cannot grasp it, perhaps the offense is too complicated.
Who can't get on the field?
Shaw is small, Green is hurt. Dent/Haggins aren’t more talented than Smith/Haulstead.
Shaw is really the only question mark, and with the premium placed on blocking, I could believe that Reed might be edging him out for that reason.
then they are not the "studs" they are hyped to be
there are obvious openings at WR
i agree that all those guys have similar potential
but i disagree that any one of them has reached that potential on a consistent basis… Haulstead has been improving. Smith had some nice plays last week (also missed some plays). But if there are flashes being shown in practice get someone else on the field and see what happens… why not?
Green and Shaw were the most highly rated of the recruits.
They’re just not ready physically (for varying reasons), unfortunately.
As for the other guys, there’s definitely a learning curve for receivers. Haulstead ia close to being on pace to match Fortson’s first year as a serious contributor, despite our overall passing numbers being WAAAAAAAAAAAAY down from last year:
Fortson 2009: 13 games, 45 catches 610 yards, 4 TDs.
Haulstead 2010: 10 games, 32 catches, 471 yards, 5 TDs.
Fortson had a higher ceiling with his athleticism, but we can’t complain about Willie’s production this year.
Reed’s been the real disappointment this year with the drops… and it looks like the coaches may be ready to move on if some of the other guys will step up.
I actually feel a lot better about our receiver corps today than I did a couple weeks back. Both Haulstead and Smith have now carried us in separate games. Big steps for both of those guys.
Green is flat unavailable
With the shoulder injury
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Green- hurt
Shaw- did see the field. Rumor is he was held out last week for academics.
Haggins- not considered a stud by anyone.
Dent- saw the field and promptly messed up.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not at this point
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
think haggins is
banged up right now.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
What is
the injury to Markus White that people are referencing?
Unsure. I do know his knee has bothered him since his first year. He went out for a prolongued atretch
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I thought they benched him b/c he allowed Parker to get outside AGAIN, as Yates did repeatedly last week.
Do we know for sure this was injury related? It happened immediately after Parker escaped the pocket to his side AGAIN.
I guess it could be
Just surprised Werner played so much in a row.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I know I was tired of seeing Yarborough 2.0 out there with the lack of contain,
maybe coaches were pissed too and made the switch.
Didn’t all of the UNC deep balls happen when we let Yates scramble outside? And we almost did the same with Parker, he just missed the sideline shot. I really think the Germinator came in the next play (series?) because I recall being very relieved to see him.
Some of those (Yates) definitely were
Germanator is gonna be very good.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Germanator needs a nickname...
Something catchy that I can yell
I just like to say "Ohhhh the German!" in a Mr. Burns voice.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
We could call him "Borg"
It just works on so many levels.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
And on second thought,
my made up adjective should probably have been, “syllablically,” in remembering that monosyllabic is indeed a real word.
“Germ” and “Borg” would both quality as syllablically economical – however, i think the missing factor from either is that we need something that can properly leverage a fake German accent, preferably requiring a saliva spray when properly enunciated. I don’t know if it is possible to achieve this in 2 syllables or fewer, but I have a strong conviction that this is where our thinking needs to go.
Yrs
We watched White get physically abused, then Werner came in for an extended run. Interesting watching him that first play, totally expecting to see him rush hard and get to see how his physicality compares to White. Nope. First play, Werner drops back in coverage on the snap. He did drop back and came up to deflect a pass when Parker rolled right.
by Sabon on Nov 15, 2010 2:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Was a great play
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Average Running Backs?
I have to disagree Bud.
I think Ty Jones is special now.
And Chris Thompson can be very special next year.
Also lets not forget about Lonnie.
I understand that Jimbo is a big believer of taking what the defense gives you, but I do think we have abandoned the run a lot this year.
"Its called the Veer"
I'm talking about someone who will go to the league
Ty doesn’t make people miss or run people over very often. Our line gets them most of the yards.
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I think Ty shows great balance and gets a good amount of yards after initial contact.
He is the best pure runner we have. He aint gonna run many people over but he’s a good back. He seldom gets consistent carries though from game to game. One game he gets 18 for 95 yds and the next game he gets 4 for 18.
Yeah he has to get right mentally, no doubt.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Agree on Ty, but something is obviously still missing.
Blocking perhaps? Something is keeping him off the field… otherwise, I don’t understand why he’s not #1.
Some believe he was on secret suspension last week
I am in this camp.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Rumor had it he was not cordial in practice
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Hope he learned his lesson.
I disagree with you on his ability, I think he’s got the tools — if he can put it together.
Yeah or adjust to it
When the opponents, noticing all the passing adjust to the pass. The option adjustment against Clemson was good, but I would have liked to have seen adjustments in the previous two games to counter what those teams did to slow the FSU offense in the second halves.
3rd and 2 and we overuse the quick slant.
They are waiting on it and we suffer a pick. 3rd and 2 and Clemson runs for a first down. I know our run game has not been stellar, and I hated the runs out of the shotgun, but we need to play the averages a little more.
Again, I was not impressed with the play calling in more than a few areas. I credit Clemson with very good defense at times but not spiking the ball in the 4th after picking up a huge 1st down was just plain ole stupid. the hurried next play resulted in a reed drop (no surprise) and a chop block. Kinda football 101 for dummies kinda deal. I did like the option look and E.J. was throwing darts out there!
I said last week he needed more reps and I stand by it. His arm is live and Ponder at 100% this year does not have the velocity EJ does. Not doubt about it. The kid is now 4-1 with a loss to 12-0 UF at Gainesville. Even if Ponder plays next week the kid should have a couple of packages he can run. A nice pass off the fake option would be huge IMO.
The defense has hit a wall but man the offense and officials are not helping. That first quarter was horrid by both. We only gave up 3 points in the second half which is huge….If, and I hate if’s, but if you cut out half of the penalties or get half of the holding calls your not getting our defense is playing top 30 ball. Pretty big jump from 110 in 2009.
I think using points to eval an O or a D is a poor idea here when there are more telling measures.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I personally hate the option plays but...
EJ seemed to run them well (though he took a good shot on one of them)… I wonder if Jimbo could try subbing him on occasion the next couple weeks to change things up a bit. With Ponder’s arm I really wouldn’t want them trying the option with him in there as they have a few times this year… Maybe a Leak/Tebow type situation? I’ve got nothing against Ponder, I think he’s the clear #1 when healthy… just looking for a way to get a talented and tough kid in the game…
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Manuel come in on short yardage situations.
He’s definitely a load to bring down and I’d say teams should be VERY hesitant to load the box after seeing him connect with R. Smith downfield with such success.
I've never been opposed to mixing the option into the offense.
I don’t like it as the focus of an offense at all. But when mixed in a little bit, it just becomes one more look a defense has to account for. And with the right personnel, it seems you can set up some good passing plays with it.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
In spite of the risk, I really liked them
I was really impressed at how well Manuel ran them. Much better than Ponder in the part of the game. If we can wheel the option out from time to time to keep defences off balance, and to force them to practice for it, and to flat out beat them with it if they don’t, I think I’m all for it.
Is that a fair comparison?
Harris plays only at nickel – Reid is playing base CB. Not the same position. Harris at nickel freelances like Greg got to do last year – and everyone thought he was good enough to be starting oppposite PRob.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
To be fair, Reid's competition at corner last year was Jenije.
So it’s no wonder people wanted him to play more.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I'm wary of the sample size dynamic plus the freelancing issue previously stated
Not totally convinced Harris looks 100% better than Reid if given more snaps and alot more ground to cover as well at FC
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 14, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think by watching CM3's deep throws that CP7's shoulder has never fully recovered.
His deep balls looked effortless…..Ponder threw like that last year.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Wondering where you got CM3?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Please one more game for EJ
Why CJF didn’t start with the option is crazy. EJ was put on this earth to run the option. With a few adjustments and such, its unstoppable. CP deserves the chance to start versus FU but you can’t deny 15-24 WHEN 2 of em were drops (REED) and 2 were inches away (Smith). The man is a game changer and Winner. Please I can’t go 10 more months w/o seeing him play!
didn't start with the option because he wanted EJ to be able to use the whole playbook
Turned out EJ was not ready for that, so Jimbo adjusted and started calling plays to EJ’s strengths.
I think Jimbo was sort of testing EJ a little in the first half to see how far he could go with him. I thought EJ played well but there were a few questionable checks and throws he made.
The deep ball into double coverage would have never been thrown by Ponder and was a poor decision by EJ (look at the process not the result).
The first play of the game Ponder would have scrambled for 15-20 while EJ threw it for 50. I would have been happy with either but I definitely sensed EJ was much more willing to take a chance while Ponder is more interested in taking what he knows he can get and minimizing mistakes.
The slant on 3rd and 2 was a check play and EJ made the wrong check and then the wrong throw.
Obviously, because EJ does look for the big play a lot more than Ponder we will have to live with the ups and downs. I have no problem with that however as he is still very green and has a lot potential and I want him to learn as much as possible in order to maximize his play next year.
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by freshcollegeboy on Nov 15, 2010 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Manuel performed as poorly as people claim.
Fisher went French Vanilla on offense the 2nd quarter.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Reed is the most frustrating FSU player to me.
He has all of the tools that Owens has, but is doing NOTHING with them. I was so mad to hear the commentators saying the pass that EJ floated to him was under-thrown. Of course it was. He made it as easy as possible since there was no coverage and he still dropped it. I don’t know what Fisher’s seeing in practice, but I would love to see Shaw out there any day over Reed.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
Keith Jones
when Reed dropped the ball on the last drive, “Go sit down Bert, we’ll catch you next week…no pun intended.”
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 15, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
How much smaller?
I could’ve sworn he only had a couple inches on him.
I know that process is the focus, but I would really LOVE to see some results against UM and UF.
Looked it up -- Rod Owens is listed at 6'1 186 on ESPN.
Bert’s listed at 5’10 167 on Seminoles.com. Rod’s height might be exagerrated there, but the main difference I was talking about was in thickness…. Reed is very slight of frame.
A couple inches and 20+ pounds.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Incredible bias
If you could watch the offense that played in that game and try to say that EJ conducts the unit better than Christian right now. EJ will be a very nice player, but 7 is well ahead of him at the current moment.
>>---l>
I would say Ponder is better.
Given almost no opportunity to play EJ does well. I mean aside from Miami I believe we win all the other games with EJ. He is not better calling the game as Ponder but I did not see a let down on deep throws at all. So the timing was there and he, without a doubt, has ponder beat with zip on the short throws.
What I would say and have said is that we need to find ways to get him some plays or a few series at least. He is the future and there is no reason to believe that no matter what the game or score in that game that EJ wont play as well as Ponder or at the very least bring something to the table to provide the offense with a spark.
RIGHT NOW, it would appear EJ presents more of a deep threat than Ponder.
Now, we have to consider that teams are loading up the box to stop the run vs. EJ, so you would think he’d have better opportunities to go downfield, but even controlling for this – looking at the deep pass attempts we’ve actually observed – I’d say EJ’s downfield throws have given our receivers a better chance at success.
Stil give Ponder the big edge in game mgmt and intermediate passing, and agree with the notion that you still can’t make the decision to start EJ if Ponder is healthy.
right now? i'd say at all times
People know ponder’s thought process is to take the high percentage play by now.
Maybe thats because Ponder throws it deep to Bert Reed (whom he trusts more) and EJ throws it to Rodney
6-2 vs 6-6 give me height all day on a deep jump ball
that's ponder's fault
i’d tend to trust a 6’6 or 6’3 over a 5’9 (not named steve smith) guy on lobs and deep throws. Always wondered why ponder never even tried to go down field…could have been his arm ailments, could have been that he cant make it reach. who knows…
Thats just a trust issue
Bud said it here….the younger guys seem to play harder for EJ. Ponder isn’t gonna throw the deep ball to a guy he doesn’t trust will go get it for him. Greg Carr might have ruined Ponder for that…. He has been throwing it deeper to Haulstead lately…
hmmm...
really think that a player who just got inserted into the starting lineup as a soph, all wide eyed and excited, is playing any harder because EJ is out there?
it may be the case though as people tend to run a route harder because there is a chance that the ball may get thrown to him. Smith probably runs his deep break just as hard for Ponder as with EJ, but what is the chance that Ponder is actually gonna let it rip?
I have a tough time believing the "process" includes
When I say “process,” I mean thought process.
I have a tough time thinking that a QB when he sees a WR running deep is thinking “wait, that’s ‘John Doe’ so i”m not throwing it to him.
My belief is, like in hoops, the ball tends to find the open guy. At least, I hope so.
EJ doesn't read his progressions nearly as well yet
A couple of throws in particular made this particularly evident. The 3rd and 6 when he went to the checkdown rather than throwing to the crossers from the bunch formation was very bad. The one deep throw to Smith was into double coverage and wasn’t the right read. He doesn’t manage the passing game nearly as well as Christian does. This is to be expected.
>>---l>
Yeah, imagine a few more reps? I do kinda like the one read, two read, make a decision.
Ponder has been pressing too much this season and trying to hard to make all the reads. This has lead to some sacks and some lost yardage on easy scrambles. I did think EJ made a great leap and went threw all of his reads and hit his 4th choice, bert read, on the far side of the field in the open flat. Bert, of course dropped the pass.
Even within the very small universe of downfield throws,
Ponder actually has an uglier error than EJ’s vs. Clemson — that INT vs. Miami was pretty bad. So this isn’t something that Ponder definitively avoided.
EJ could top 350 total yards next week.
On the one run he coulda gone for 30 more and his passing was damn close. The INT was a bad pass but Ponder has 3 of those a game. I just wanna see him in action one more time. Christian, your elbow isn’t a 100% yet, sit out one more week.
by Mannieblunts on Nov 15, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Smith should have went up like that against BC
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of the death." - Nick Saban
Exactly. Key example of how the good result of the play was not indicative of a good process behind it.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
Thus, reward the process which leads to good results, be thankful for the good results in spite of oneself.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
I know. He pulled it down between 2 guys, right?
I’m compariing that to Ponder’s throw that got picked vs. UM on their 1 yard line. Ponder basically made the same mistake, not reading the backside safety.
And, admittedly not a process or decision-making issue, but Manuel’s ball was placed such that Smith had a much better chance, despite the double-team.
Must again qualify that I am NOT in favor of starting EJ if Ponder is approximately at UNC game healthiness…. but I will not be entirely disappointed if he’s not quite ready and EJ starts.
Game on the line, EJ stepped up
I know it takes 11 guys to go down the field and score, but I loved the way EJ stepped up and took over that game. He looked so comfortable with the option and running that TD drive. Never thought I would have heard option offense when referring to FSU!
The option seemed to be a gift straight from Heaven.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham

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