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Around SBN: Two Minutes Of Thunder Basketball Wins The Game

Is Florida State's Young Defense Hitting A Wall? Thoughts on the 37-35 loss to North Carolina

This was a difficult loss for Florida State as it had the opportunity to take control of the division and it did not.  It was difficult because FSU had the opportunity to win the game with a routine field goal opportunity for its excellent kicker, and it did not.  But the reality is that the game should not have been heartbreaking.  UNC should have had more points as Florida State's defense gave up an astronomical 7.8 yards-per-play.  

I thought FSU would achieve about 5.75 yards-per-play.  The 'Noles gained  5.6 yards-per-play on 66 plays.  That is about what was expected of the offense against a very talented defense, and the 35 points is about 7 more than I expected.  It's comparable to what Miami (5.8) and LSU (5.5) did in victories over much lesser UNC defenses (the Tar Heels were without more key contributors in those games).  

Quarterback Christian Ponder was very sharp, going 24-34 for 264 yards.  Of the 10 incompletions there were three drops by Bert Reed, two drops by Willie Haulstead, three bad balls by Ponder, one tipped pass on a missed cut, and one beautiful deep ball that Bert Reed could not haul in while tapping his feet.  

I don't think Bert Reed should be starting and would not be opposed to him being told to graduate and leave this Spring.  I was impressed with Willie Haulstead today.  He was not perfect, but he played a quality game overall with 10 catches for 154 yards and I did not spot him getting chewed out on the sideline.  

I thought 4th-string guard Rhonne Sanderson played acceptably filling in.  He did miss a cut that cost FSU a third down in the first quarter (slant to visitor's sideline to Shaw).   

Florida State's offense was below-average in the second half, gaining only 100 yards on 25 plays (4 yards per play). That was a result of some nice plays by UNC and some mistakes made by Florida State.  Fisher was very angry with Bert Reed for blowing a route to open the half that resulted in a sack.  FSU should have scored 16-2nd half points, but I cannot put two easy field goal misses on the offense.  I can put poor receiver play and some penalties on the offense in the second half.  

FSU did try to run the ball more in the second half and abandoned the no-huddle somewhat as it realized the defense needed lots of time on the sidelines to work on things.  FSU rushed nine times and threw only three times on 12 neutral downs in the second half.  Here were the runs on 1st-10.  Lonnie rushed for 3 on 1st-10, Chris Thompson rushed for 2 on 1st-10, Thompson rushed for 8 on 1st-10, Thompson rushed for 3 on 1st-10 (penalty block in the back- Easterling), Thomas rushed for 5 yards on 1st-10.  FSU didn't abandon the run in the second half, it just was behind the chains due to some penalties, whether justified or not.  

As alluded to above, there were some questionable penalties called in the second half.  Willie Haulstead had blocked his butt off and I guess sometimes refs will view that as holding.  Five in-play (not alignment) offensive penalties were called against Florida State in the second half, compared to zero for North Carolina.  Those penalties were killer and kept FSU from establishing a rhythm, particularly the holding call against tight end Beau Reliford on 3rd-8 which killed a first down run and resulted in a field goal attempt which Hopkins missed.

Tailback Ty Jones did not play and was a coaching decision.  To me, that means the junior running back didn't handle his diabetes after causing the fumble on Thursday night, or had a very bad week of practice and did not get ready to play.  

Overall this was a quality offensive effort.  The offense had zero turnovers, never put the defense in a poor position, and moved the ball on UNC's defense.  The first half was excellent (6.6 per play) and the second half was below average (4 per play).  

Star-divide

Unc-_fsu_non_garbage

expected FSU to allow 5.25 yards play:

I think FSU can limit this run game, but not shut it down. Carolina's receivers will make some plays, but won't tear this defense up. I think UNC will run 64 plays for 336 yards (5.25) per play.

North Carolina gained 515 yards on 66 plays.  That is 7.8 yards per play, which is by far the most Florida State has allowed on the season and with the exception of the Tar Heels' shellacking of Virginia (8.3), the most Carolina had gained by far.

T.J. Yates completed 14 passes of more than 10 yards.  Here they are:  67, 56, 39, 38, 31, 27, 22, 19, 16, 14, 14, 12, 11, 10.  Some of those were great plays by surefire NFL talents at receiver, but many were inexcusable coverage busts.  Those were the type of busts that had been fixed so far this year and this was the first game in which FSU did not defend the deep ball.  We saw last week that FSU took away the deep ball and NC State ran on FSU and crisply executed the short passing game.  Today was a much worse defensive performance.  

It was telling that FSU was so focused on the run.  I believe that the gameplan was very much a reaction to the NC State game, in which everyone saw Florida State's young defensive line get manhandled in the second half.  The gameplan shows a (perhaps justified) lack of confidence in the defense up front.  FSU got very little pressure and I think the gameplan was very tellingI think the coaches were very concerned about the UNC run game, probably because of NC State, and that to me speaks of a lack of physical maturity from a dline that is Sr, So, So, So, So, Fr, Fr, Fr. I think our coaches have very little confidence in them right now.  I noticed that FSU often used both nose-guards at the same time.  That is highly unusual and signals a worry about stopping the run.  It could also mean that there is something physically wrong with defensive tackle Everett Dawkins.  

I do think this young defensive line is hitting a wall.  Florida State did notch five sacks but one was on the last play of the first half in a clear-pass situation and two more were on offensive line busts where a rusher was unblocked. One was on a rollout.  They lack the physical maturity to dominate games and this young group of defensive backs really needs this defensive line to generate more pressure.  This is a unit that has stayed healthy, but really might be starting to wear down.  

You have to wonder whether the defensive backs also got caught up in the need to stop the run.  Certainly the coaches didn't tell them to abandon deep responsibility to stop the run, and the mantra all year has been to not get beat deep, but at some point do the defensive backs sense that FSU is unlikely to be able to stop the run without extra help from the defensive backs.  That is not an excuse for them at all and priority number one for the defensive backs in a zone scheme must be to not allow receivers over the top.  

When senior middle linebacker Kendall Smith went out with an injury, Vince Williams came in and he was stiff in coverage.  I wasn't impressed with any of the linebackers yesterday, though my disappointment with them is more about coverage than tackling. 

I have to credit the North Carolina staff for exploiting some weaknesses in FSU's defense that weren't glaring before the game but that were potentially there.  Carolina called a great game and kept FSU's defense off balance all day. The screen pass against the corner blitz in the second quarter was perfectly timed and really well blocked.  Great use of formation to get leverage and numbers outside and a great job of being patient when required.  

And as disappointed as I was with the defense, I have to complain about the lack of holding calls.  Democrat writer Corey Clark noted that FSU's opponents have been flagged for holding only five times in six ACC games, and only a single time in the last three games.  I have long thought that FSU gets jobbed by ACC refs and yesterday was no different.  Meanwhile FSU has been flagged for 13 illegal blocks during that same span. Including 6 against UNC alone.  

Other Thoughts

 

  • I think that Carolina, without a doubt, would be legitimate national title contenders if it had its suspended players.  I think Butch Davis is one of the best talent evaluators and developers in the country, now showing it at both Miami and North Carolina.  It is no secret how Davis does this.  Saban does it as well as the other elite coaches.  I think FSU will soon be doing the same as the 'Noles expect to take 23+ players in this class despite having only nine seniors.  
  • The kick return game was better, the punt team was quite good, but the kickoff game was not very good and Hopkins got lucky on one of the touchbacks as well (the one that bounced over the returner's head). 
  • The official scorekeeper credited the punter with -40 yards rushing for the bad snap, but that is incredibly misleading 
  • End of Game Management.  It's tough to tell players to do this, but FSU should have let them score from outside the 10.  Once UNC got inside the 10, FSU should have called one timeout either after UNC gained the first down or after the first down run.  Unless I am missing something (please correct me if I am), that was about 35 seconds of wasted time and Jimbo Fisher has to be on top of that.  
  • Thinking that FSU is cursed or that these things only happen to Florida State is silly and I won't entertain those thoughts.
  • We caught a lot of heat for staying conservative in our predictions after the Miami game, when everyone was saying 10-2 or 11-1.  We said there would be a major step up in competition and that 5 of FSU's 7 toughest games were yet to be played.  We predicted 8-4 before the season, were widely criticized for it, and that looks to be the most likely scenario at this point.  FSU is still very much in contention to win the Division as well.  
  • It's hard to say that FSU isn't moving in the right direction when looking at the recruiting and player development.  Remember that FSU has a 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years, it has lost 20 games in the last 4 years, had the 7th worst major-conference defense last season, and hasn't even won its own division in the ACC in the last 4.  I honestly believe this defense will make another big stride next season, from above average to very good, just as it went from terrible to above average this year.  
  • FSU now sits at 6-3 (4-2 in conference) and plays Clemson at 8PM next week.  Clemson has many more problems than Florida State.

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End game management...

I recall they gained a first down inside the 10. IMO they needed one TO for a game winning drive in case of a Les Miles situation. I had no problem with not calling a TO then. Besides UNC could have then run 3 plays(1st, 2nd, 3rd down) to drain the clock/ or our other 2 TOs and left us in a worse situation.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 7, 2010 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

Fisher got the outcome he was hoping for,

but I kind of agree it makes sense to let them score, which it kind of looked like we were doing for a minute. I guess I was thinking we were better than we were.

Been complaining about this holding issue all season. It is freakin absurd. You could see Jimbo mouth that it was ridiculous during the game. Offisdes on the kickoff for both teams in 1 game? Are we serious?

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Never ever let a team score

at least in that position. they could have fumbled (see last week), missed the fg, had it blocked, etc. suggesting that just does not make sense. We should have taken a time out for sure. G5 bailed us out on the return. So it really didn’t matter much. Hopkins has to make that FG. He just has to.

Also, this NC team is not as great as many here believe. They will drop a few more games as will we. I hate to say it but I was a 9-3 guy and now that looks to be a home run ending to this season.

by NoleAmerica on Nov 7, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We were ahead.

You cannot let them score. There was no guaranty they would score. They could have botched the snap again. We had timeouts and did not let them run out the time and were better off only needing a field goal to win.

by nolesontop on Nov 7, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

they are still mad

We flirted with the sec. Same reason the soccer team just got fined. Usually our bad calls are a result of incompetence and playing in a basketball league. The past few weeks it has been gross. That is on Spetman to rattle the chains and put together a video, and also demand a home Thursday night game. We should not be taking crap from this conference.

Does anyone just use timeouts anymore, or are they all "burned"?

by Ponder This on Nov 8, 2010 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

We didn’t call a timeout after the run on first down, and 35-40 seconds ticked off, making it second down with a little over a minute left. We were lucky that Yates ran out of bounds so that we did not have to use a timeout, leaving us with 2 for our offensive drive.

I think we should have used all 3 timeouts after each of those 3 downs (one after 1st, one after 2nd, one after 3rd), and given ourselves close an additional minute, and possibly gotten closer for the field goal or even had time to try for a TD

by jjordan32 on Nov 7, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Think we still had time to try to get closer

from that distance, where you are on the field doesn’t make a difference. If you’re a right footed kicker, you’d rather be on the left hash where we were so you can lean back and whack it just like Dustin ended up doing.

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i am sure they asked Dustin where he wanted it

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe they did

where did he miss the first one though? just saying it IS easier to kick from there. Where you are between the hashes only causes a problem when you’re close with the angle. technically you should always hit it straight

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

they did

jimbo said he asked dustin and he said “just center it”

by garnetandgold on Nov 7, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yea Hopkins said everything was perfect

and he kept telling himself not to leave his hips open and as soon as he kicked it he realized he had

by garnetandgold on Nov 7, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

why not run the ball to center it up

They could have ran the ball to center it up and possibly gotten a few yards closer. Instead it went from a 37 yarder (or maybe even closer) to a 40 yarder. I realize it’s only 3 yards, but going from a 30-something yard field goal to a 40 yard field goal has a bit of a mental hurdle to it. I’m not saying it was a bad call in the heat of the moment, but from my armchair it wasn’t the best call.

by joevan33 on Nov 8, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

To not lose 3 yards.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Nov 8, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

You make it sound like a 40 yard FG is a given

I would have liked to see us try to get 5, 10, 15 more yards at least before kicking, or, even better, try to score a TD…we had 17 seconds left and 2 timeouts after the completion to Haulstead at the 20. Why not spike the ball there, setting up 2 and 10 from the 20 with 2 timeouts and 16 sec left? Plenty of time to try to gain some extra yards to either score a TD or make the FG a little more manageable.

I didn’t like the playcalling at the time and said so as I was watching it unfold. No way we should have settled for a 40 yard FG in that situation, esp after Dustin missed an earlier one and definitely looked “off” during most, if not all, of his kickoffs on that day…

by Pinto on Nov 8, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

As I was watching it, I had some similar thoughts.

As I think back though, I think it was an acceptable sequence of events.

It was a kick our kicker can make. I’ll bet that in practice he makes that kick more often than we complete a forward pass. A field goal gives us the win, not just a tie.

Running additional plays could result in a penalty (like holding), a sack, or turnover.

The way we played, we would have been lucky to win. We just weren’t lucky enough.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 8, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

If we’d run more plays and turned the ball over, everyone would be saying Jimbo blew it, we have a great kicker and were well within his range, etc.

I’m with you, it was an acceptable strategy.

by 38Noles on Nov 8, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

agree on that.

would like to have seen the TO after 1st down.

i guess the thinking was to save 1 timeout to setup a FG attempt.

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

absolutely

agree; you can stop the clock anytime when you have the ball, even with no timeouts; i’m obviously wrong on the numbers, but i though that unc’s first down play was over at aroun 1:54; the second down play ended and we called a timeout around 1:04
that’s still blowing my mind

by SalmonNole on Nov 7, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

T. J. Yates saved our butts by

running out of bounds on their last drive.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And by missing on a couple deep balls that were sure TD's

I don’t know what was going on, but it seemed like our safeties weren’t even in the game.

by FSUjab on Nov 8, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Bert's had a few bad games this year,

but i do not think he should be told to leave after this year!!!

by fsufrenzy911 on Nov 7, 2010 3:56 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

He isnt a player FSU should waste a scholarship on any longer.

Graduate and GTFO

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

more talented than Bert

He had three drops, didn’t get his feet down on another, and caused a sack by running the wrong route

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't remember

bert dropping this many or playing this poorly last year; i saw him coming in as our go to guy after fortson decided he had better things to do than become an elite college receiver;

by SalmonNole on Nov 7, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

He has regressed

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

u know good and well that Reed isn't going anywhere.

He may take a lessor role as a senior but what would it look like dismissing a player who has put in 3 yrs of productive work, only to be told to “pack it up”?

not happening

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Him and Taiwan are Seniors correct?

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

"He" and Taiwan

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Both Easterling and Reed are RS JR's.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Goodbye Tai...he'll be playing baseball somewhere

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he should sit now.

I posted that in my trailing thoughts in the 4 quarter post as well. Reed has actually played a lot worse this year. Without Owens and Fortson giving him space it is obvious that he cannot create his own. The drops, missed assignments, and lack of playmaking leads me to think that any of the young WR’s could do the same and probably be better. I pull for dent or Haggins in that spot. I think Dent has the most upside IMO.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Based on your comments

He’s not a leader in practice? Not capable/willing to mentor the young receivers?

I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor

by slumgullion on Nov 7, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I am trying to remember the catches he made last year.

I think it was mostly underneath stuff where someone else cleared out the coverage. We are asksing him to run real routes this year as a number 1 receiver. I don’t think he is built to do that. I am not sure if that constitutes regressing, but he clearly is not able to handle the role he has now.

by nolesontop on Nov 8, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

he did a little bit of everything last year.

what was so impressive was his ability to hold onto the ball while he took some devastating shots. On the sideline, middle of the field, wherever. No idea where that guy went.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

As a coach, if I have JRs & Srs that at a level equal to or less than underclassmen, those JRs & Srs won’t play….. After drops this week & the nc state game, I’d be playin the babies & let Bert reed do something else…. You can blame mistakes on fresh & soph as youth… Bert doesn’t have an excuse his he is not playing at a high level…. Clearly haulstead made a DECISION to be great

hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard

by lawj on Nov 8, 2010 4:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Wow.

And this is the guy who was selected by the coaches as the team’s most dependable receiver following spring practice.

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

is this inside info

or just your opinion of what we should do with him?

by nbj08 on Nov 7, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

As much as I hate to agree

I do, I believe he has reached his ceiling, he’s a small guy, he’s fast, but he isnt real shifty, he has limited moves in the open field, and his catching has been beyond suspect this season

by az5950 on Nov 7, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

not saying I disagree

I was just looking to see if the coaches realize this, too

by nbj08 on Nov 7, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

In Essence

 I think Jimbo has, but in order to finish the season strong, I dont think he will bench him, because even though the Freshman are more talented @ the same time they are Freshman

by az5950 on Nov 7, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

this reminds me

of last year when the coaches, both offensive and defensive coordinators, came out and said players who wouldn’t perform, wouldn’t play; and then they played anyways; i’d like to see get in whomever we think gives us the best chance to win; freshmen can drop passes with the best of them

by SalmonNole on Nov 7, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn't matter about talent,

its about their grasp of the offense. I’m sure Bert has some pressure on him to perform in practice this week, but seeing how the young receivers that play have progressed, it is likely that the frosh WRs don’t have a better understanding of the offense than Bert.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't matter about talent?

Would you like to take this opportunity to re-phrase your comment? or maybe, I do not understand the recruiting process at all??

by wkn1 on Nov 10, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you feel about easterling?

He only caught like one pass last week, I only recall him catching quick screen type throws yesterday. Now I might have missed some things since I was in the stands.
Bert has really regressed this year. Maybe he’s just not meant to be a #1 receiver, more just a #3 slot guy. Don’t get why he can catch.

I expected a lot more from both this year. Are you expecting easterling to be asked to stick to baseball next year?

by beezyfsu on Nov 7, 2010 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he is better. He was awful last week though

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think they all looked awful

I think some of them have limited talent.

Look at UNC’s receivers. They were terrible last year. Same guys this year look good.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

None

but Haulstead appears to be improving

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

our receivers need to learn how to catch

who is our most dependable receiver? Who would we go to in clutch situations?

by fsufrenzy911 on Nov 7, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly

I’d say Ty Jones or any of our other running backs before our receivers.

by SeminoleDan on Nov 8, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully Haulstead for the rest of the season

I’d love for the UNC game to be the breakout performance that gives him #1 WR confidence.

FSU 30 - UNC 17

by Jamil Dawson on Nov 8, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I say he is our #1 Next year

SMith maybe two (or green?). Then you can see bert take some slot routes mixed in with some downfield stuff. Hopefully with shaw adding some lb’s in the off season we can get him on the field.

by ChyTownNole on Nov 8, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't see it.

“GTFO”? Is there something more to this that the casual reader doesn’t know about?

So, he very nearly lead the team in receiving last year… was called a versatile team player, and a proven commodity by you in the offseason… was selected by the coaches as most dependable in spring… leads the team in recs this year… made the game winning play in the BC game on the reverse… despite being “banged up” as he said afterwards. Still, he hasn’t earned a senior year?

He doesn’t have any disciplinary problems that we’re talking about, right?

I’m frustrated too, but if we’re talking “GTFO”, there’s got to be something more than some dropped balls and a few bad games, right? Heck, if that’s all it takes, why do we have any TEs on scholarship?

Would you still call for the “GTFO” if we’re 8-1? Hopkins missing the kick, and the fumble in the NCSt game— Bert Reed didn’t do those things. You can argue that we wouldn’t have to make the kick, or score at the end at NCSt, but still we had a chance to win, even with his mistakes, and that would be the situation if we tell him to GTFO.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 7, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

GTFO might be strong, but the regression in his play is concerning.

I’d rather Kenny Shaw and Greg Dent be missing blocks, running the wrong routes, and dropping passes. At least they would be gaining experience.

by coonhound on Nov 7, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

true

It’s not like he’s in a position where multiple years of experience is more important than raw talent (such as MLB, QB, or even Center). The WR position is very reactive versus proactive, so it’s more about reacting to situations instead of being forced to diagnose and make or change calls where experience is a huge advantage.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If a younger guy can do the same thing next year, yes

It’s big-boy football. Do not keep marginal seniors.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagreed.

For the future, I’ll know what you mean when you say “proven commodity”— someone we can push out after 4 years of dedication, even if they lead the team in production.

Marginal? Stats wise we talk about excluding outliers— if we exclude outliers last year Reed leads the team in production, as he does this year. Do we win the BC game without him? NCSt last year?

You may be right about this in the end. For today, I’m buying a Bert Reed jersey and hoping he makes our team better, as he has in the past.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 7, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think GTFO was a little harsh,

But I tend to think Bud really means put him on the bench. He has regressed to a situational player at best at this point. Not sure what the deal is but a lot of guys make a splash and then disappear. Bert def is not a game breaker and we might have one if we play someone else. Since were just about never up in a game our guys on the bench don’t get many reps.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

He is not what builds a winning team...and he is not elite that is why we don't want him around wasting a scholarship

Gone are the days where we keep guys for just putting in time.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

So you agree with the verbage to tell a kid to "get the ef-word out", eh?

Could’ve been said in a about hundred different ways without using that verbage. Easily. IMO an editor who expects continued credibility from not only his own fan base, but those of our opponents, could find a way to more eloquently express this fact.

I guess I was wrong.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

he has used that verbage before this is not new.

I have seen him use that phrase many times to discuss the futures of poorly performing players, as in they will have to play better or GTFO.

This really should not be a big deal I honestly see it as a figure of speech it’s not like Jimbo is going to see Bert tomorrow and say GET THE F*CK OUT OF MY LOCKER ROOM.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Possibly.

However,

1.) Not everyone hangs out at TN all day and reads every article. Personally, I’ve never heard him use it. Ever.

2.) You see it as a figure of speech. Others dont (they’ve made it quite clear).

3.) It doesn’t surprise me that SOMEONE is going to rush to the defense of the editor. In all honestly, if someone had said that about Ponder, depending on what type of mood one of the moderators were in, they’d have probably been banned for it.

I’ve been here a while. I used to really enjoy it. I’m not a prude by any standard, but some days this place is just laughable.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

That sort of language and tone is NOT the norm here. As someone who snoops around here daily, I have no doubt about that. The argument fades fast when dickishnes prevails. Don’t act like ripping people profanely is the status quo.

It is big time football and scholarships aren’t guaranteed but Jimbo’s not going to dump someone who he sees as useful, even if it’s only situational.

by FLpanhandler on Nov 8, 2010 7:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not saying the guy is perfect.

Or that I know he needs to start over others…

but “He is not what builds a winning team” is a statement I’d disagree with. I think if you look back at last year’s season, and even some of the games this season, he has provided positive contributions. He may not be what wins a NC, but he has (hopefully) been part of building a winning foundation.

He provided 20% of our receiving production last year (in recs and yards), and this year is providing 25% in recs and about 22% in yards. So, I don’t see him as someone just “putting in time”— he catches 1 out of 4 completed passes at FSU.

We have guys named Gehres, Wade, and Alexander on our roster who are listed at receiver as well— are we going to push 4 guys out after the season? If you’ve got an argument why those guys should be on the team and not Reed, let’s hear it. I’ll bet Reed has put up better numbers in one game than those three have put up in their careers, combined.

I don’t think anyone is going to argue that he is an elite receiving talent, but he does have some useful skills. Am I wrong that he is among the fastest players on the team, if not the fastest? He’s been playing and contributing for 3 years, so he has a lot of experience.

Some folks have been saying we’re missing Owens and Goodman who graduated last year. Owens and Goodman combined for 26 recs and 240 yards as sophomores. As juniors they put up 15 recs for 183. Reed’s numbers are freshman: 23 for 295, so: 60 for 710, jr: 44 for 421 (with 3 games remaining). So, if Owens and Goodman can put in a good senior year, why can’t Reed?

It has been suggested here too, that his experience won’t be useful to us next year— not enough to justify holding a scholarship at least. Perhaps one of you guys who is better with stats than me could crunch some numbers to see if guys with more experience tend to have higher game production.

The only thing I worry about with defending Reed as much as I have in this thread is that when Bud starts saying things like ‘this player might need to get out’— it tends to precede something less than desirable— guys like Fortson and Carr come to mind. I hope that isn’t the case.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 8, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you saying that Bud is omnipotent and will have Reed kicked off the team?

by NC Nole on Nov 8, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

No.

If anyone on this site was omnipotent, we wouldn’t lose much at all.

Just saying sometimes Bud writes things that suggest he suspects things that I don’t know about— like with Fortson saying things like ‘if he doesn’t want his career to go up in smoke’, etc… (I’m paraphrasing here), but I think the point is clear. Sometimes it seems as though Bud may have a bit of an insider’s hunch.

Also, with the Nigel Carr thing I made a few posts defending the guy, but looking at it now, I think I was probably wrong about that. I hope I’m not wrong about Reed too.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 8, 2010 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Bud “knows people”.

by NC Nole on Nov 8, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

In no way is my wanting Bert gone a character thing

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Comment

It’s mainly because I perceive Bert to be a pretty good character guy that I would have misgivings about him being forced out. I guess Haulstead gets a bit of a pass for being relatively inexperienced and showing huge potential, but he’s pushing it with me too. There’s just no excuse for dropping multiple passes that hit you right in the hands (or would if you didn’t let them get into your body).

by csfuu on Nov 8, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe this is a good problem to have

But I think you’re right that we’re going to have the opportunity to bring in freshmen who are better than number of the guys on the roster from previous classes, more than would normally be the case for most teams. One of my big pet peeves is how many people continued to think that we were “loaded” with talent near the end of the Bowden era. I think that a lot the high school kids (and their advisors) had probably figured out that they wouldn’t get any decent coaching at FSU and stopped signing with us. The really talented ones who did sign were usually high-risk in one way or another and either never made it to FSU or didn’t last.

As a result we still have a lot of very average players on the roster, and I’m sure that the coaches would like to clear some of that space. It’s a tough decision how to handle it though when you have a kid who has been a good citizen and a good student. At a minimum you have to let them graduate, but you did say “graduate”, so I can’t fault you there. I’m not sure about Bert’s redshirt status, but I would probably favor giving them a full four years too, at least if they are contributing meaningfully to the team.

Anyway, I’m sure a lot of your reaction was due to your frustration with watching Bert’s inconsistent play, and I am completely with you on that.

by csfuu on Nov 8, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Who would those 10 be?

Bert,
Jamar Jackson
Cam Wade
Imeokparia
Jabaris little
Commack
AJ Alexander
Tosh Stevens

Would Jermaine Thomas be on this list if he continues with his problems of not running hard or not 1 cutting it? He has been decent but always hear about him not running hard.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

All those would have to be considered

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 9, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that's pretty harsh on Bert.

He’s been disappointing, but I think if he can go back to being a slot receiver he may return to his 2009 form.

by EricNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Totally agree. I’ve been complaining about this dude all year. It’s painful to watch him play, given all the experience he has. He plays like a freshman. Small, but not dynamic. Needs perfect passes and perfect blocks to make a play. I’ve already vented about him before, so I’ll leave it alone now. I was just shaking my head watching him yesterday. I rather have a freshman out there doing the things Bert does, than a RS Jr who has played every year he’s been active to play.

by 504Nole on Nov 7, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately I must agree

He had a far better 2009 campaign and has regressed considerably this year. The drops are big for me. Plus he isn’t physical at all due to his lack of bulk and goes down easy.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Nov 7, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

you got to be kidding if you say he still isnt among the 5 best receivers on this theam

even if he hasn’t progressed past his 2009 form. If he didn’t tell Cam wade to GTHO, he’s not about to do it to an upcoming senior that HAS BEEN productive. Thats just dumb to kick him off because he isn’t a #1 receiver. Just demote him…problem solved

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

If we need room, Wade and Gehres go first. Just demote Bert.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree that Bert should have to go if younger guys can't match his production,

but definitely there are guys that would go ahead of him, especially at his position.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

...the most irrational of comments

unless he is a detriment to team morale, discipline, or there are some other untold issues.

by ryandinho on Nov 8, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

how about

a detriment to the team because he isn’t good enough and can’t catch anymore? Big boy football and you have a scholarship for how you perform on the field. Reed is not getting it done and has regressed since last year. Maybe he is a better slot guy. Guess what. We will have plenty of guys that can do that next year.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think getting rid of him helps.

Not starting him? Perhaps. But it’s probably incorrect to suggest that he adds no value to the program at all.

Further, the more i thought about this last night I remember how inconsistent Owens and Goodman were prior to their senior year.

by coonhound on Nov 8, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

If there is space on the roster for him

and we don’t need to make room, then by all means keep him around. If there is room and we get rid of other guys, I’m all for keeping him. But who here wants to miss out on a 4 or 5 star we have left on the board to see if Reed gets it together his senior year.

Who knows, maybe he turns it around. Maybe he gets it together over the last 3 games and proves why he has a scholarship.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd jettison a different WR before Reed.

And I doubt keeping Reed will factor into our ability to take a 4 or 5 star receiver.

by coonhound on Nov 8, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Clearly I'm with you on that.

To beat the dead horse a bit more, I pulled out some stats:

Over the past 3 years he’s our most productive receiver, by a lot. Second is Easterling. I don’t know why we’d want to lose both of those guys in one year (if we think Easterling goes baseball). Third is Jermaine Thomas.

Reed is #6 all time in catches per game, and by the end of the year will very likely be in the top 10 all time in catches, and top 15 in all time receiving yards. I know we do a lot more short passes these days, and it skews the numbers but I’m still not ready to put him in the marginal category.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 8, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

hahaaa... you guys are a trip

Jimbo: Hey kid, I know there are 4 WR behind you that have not done shite for 3 yrs and you’ve been a pretty good citizen, decent slot guy, and vocal leader but….

Bert: but what coach?

Jimbo: You aint got to go home but you got to get the hell outta here because you aint got no wiggle. You just dont make that 180 degree turn to catch poorly thrown balls like you used to. You dont juke the guy that is 2 feet in front of you when you catch those screens like you used to.

Bert: But coach the DB already knew the screen was coming from the 8 other times you’ve called it today…

Jimbo: Dont matter, magic your way out of it… I’ll need your jersey and your jimbo process pamphlet.

by ryandinho on Nov 8, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Simpler than that. Bert, we will not be renewing the scholarship of a senior who is now our 5th best WR. Plus he has a degree.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed his play was AWFUL yesterday. dropped at least 2 first downs and a possible game winner.

No excuse for not dragging your feet. you don’t walk out of bounds ever. When you’re close to the sideline, once the ball hits your hands you go still and let your feet touch ASAP.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

from the stands

I cannot believe there was review. COULD NOT BELIEVE IT. Maybe those that watched it on TV, it didn’t looks as close as it did from the stands?

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

it wasn't that close on TV. He walked out and dint havethe ball secure untile after he was out.

He and taiwan consistently do this…is Dawsy not teaching them this? Any time your near the sideline you really should catch and fall down if its close and not leave anything to chance.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

cool
was wondering about it, good to actually know.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I didnt mean any animosity with GTFO

It is often used as a message board meme for leave, accompanied with the Jeremy Given .gif. still, it was inappropriate. I so not dislike Bert as a person, I just think he is a waste of scholarship I’d he doesn’t improve and is here next year. I apologize for poor word choice.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

This pretty much wraps up about 150 comments on here.

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

i havent rewatched yet, but

I’m not sure that deep ball could have been brought down. I thought it was overthrown about halfway thru flight. It really seems we are getting the shaft on these holding calls ( I’m not saying we’re not holding. I’m saying our opponents are too. Really some blatant no calls IMO )

by jasonole59 on Nov 7, 2010 3:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

he had the steps... just had to complete the catch (which he didnt)

he had some other “more costly” drops sprinkled in there as well.

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I did not count that among his 3 drops

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but you did list it against him, right?

Or, was it a different catch you were talking about with the didn’t get his feet down part?

I haven’t seen a lot of guys on our team making those types of catches this year.

by IndyFSUnole on Nov 7, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes but not one of the 3 drops

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I couldn't agree more on Bert Reed

He has dropped more than a few balls this year. Not only that but there were many 50/50 balls that other receivers I feel may have caught. On top of that we continue to throw bubble screens to a guy that consistently stops his feet and has little to no wiggle when he does. I don’t understand why Jimbo feels he is so much of a weapon. He is probably 0 for 10 on deep balls this year also. I just don’t get it? I would much rather see Shaw, Dent, Haggins learn than keep going to Bert.

by Bagzfsu7 on Nov 7, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

lately

I’ve seen the bubble go to Taiwan, no?

by nbj08 on Nov 7, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course he stops his feet. He's usually waiting on the ball...LOL

I’m not a Ponder basher by any means, but I said very early in the year that those screen and out passes were hanging, and Reed would be more productive if he were able to catch them in stride. Instead, he had to stop and wait on the ball.

You don’t tell a guy that’s been a 3 year starter to GTFO, period. It’s different with a guy that’s never seen the field, or has continued off the field issues. I don’t believe telling a starter to hit the road is the message you want to send to recruits. However, I am also frustrated with his performance, and agree that we have more talented receivers. I don’t understand why Jimbo doesn’t sit him and let him “think about it” after mistakes.

by jasonole59 on Nov 8, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Fortson

How much do you really miss him this year Bud? Don’t you believe if we still ahd him we probably would havbe won one of these last two games just for his play making ability and physical blocking?

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Nov 7, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell no.

A) There’s a decent chance he wouldn’t have made it to game number 7 of the season
2) He was just as likely to drop the same passes that all the other WR’s drop
D) A physical guy like Fortson would get flagged just like Willie/Rodney with the ACC refs.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

He would have been head and shoulders above any individual in our current group

assuming he even just stayed the same as last year, if he progressed he would have been an elite player.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha!

Really? Cuz he was soooooooo consistent his first two years!?!?!

We are talking about the guy who would make one circus catch then drop 3 easy ones, right?

Anyways, it’s hard to progress when you don’t wanna practice. And it’s even HARDER to progress when you more than likely would’ve been kicked off the team by week 9 anyways.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Really? I'm glad you have made the argument xy or z would have been better

And since this group doesn’t make circus catches and drops a ton and runs wrong routes…Fortson was the best returning WR not even close, i feel bad you don’t understand that. Yes not most reliable, but still better than anyone in this crew.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 7:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Who has been

More consistent this year than last year’s Fortson?

We DO miss Fortson. There is NO deep threat on this team at all. At least Fortson has to be respected to MAYBE make the catch by opposing defenses. There’s not a single guy on this year’s team that any defense should be worried about 25+ yards down the field.

by SeminoleDan on Nov 8, 2010 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

To clear up

I don’t think Fortson should be on the team now & booting him was the right decision. But saying we don’t miss him is just silly.

He was a legit deep threat that we just don’t have right now. The amount of space opened up underneath by a respectable deep guy could easily be the difference between last years passing game & this years.

by SeminoleDan on Nov 8, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

He was just physical that he demanded respect.

We definitely miss that. But I agree that he needed to go.

by nolesontop on Nov 8, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know about winning the last two games, but we do miss him.

Let it be a lesson to us in the future about booting talented guys from the team when we might be able to get away with something less. The Gators have taken a lot of heat over Rainey, but when we face them his yards are going to count the same as everyone else’s.

by 38Noles on Nov 7, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather take our chances with the younger/less experienced guys than set a dangerous precedent...

Seriously. There is no proof that Fortson’s presence would change a damn thing. We’re better off w/out the liability.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously there is no proof or way to prove it, but here we are in midseason questioning the receiving corps and we let a high ceiling guy go by our own choice.

I remember the day the story broke, some around here were really hyped up to boot him from the team, like they got some thrill from it. I want them to remember this feeling in the future.

by 38Noles on Nov 7, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

So let me get this straight...

You’re second guessing a situation in which you couldn’t be further removed from just because one guy may or may not have made a difference a game or two?

Seriously. The Jarmon talk is laughable. There are a select few who understand what Jarmon did, and what Jarmon was capable of doing. They agree that he had to go…believe me.

I don’t speak out on much, but I happen to catch wind of some of the “happenings”. We let Jarmon stay, we become UF.

Do you want that? Do you want to be UF? Do you want a football team that is criticized nationally due to it’s misconduct? Over a guy who may or may not have contributed?

I sure don’t.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Everyone seems to agree what Fortson did was terrible. I really don’t care as long as he was capable of still playing football, but I realize I am on the fringe when it comes to discipline. Almost no one ever agrees with me on this stuff. When the Fortson thing broke, the consensus was “time to step up Rodney Smith.” Well he’s done okay, but hasn’t really stepped up. Next time let’s spare ourselves the BS about younger players stepping up and realize that cutting starters is going to have consequences.

And yes, I do want to be UF. It is difficult for us to swallow because they are a rival, but they are run the way you have to be run to win today. IMO, the margin of error is too small for us to expect to rebuild a program with all high character, or even marginal, players. It’s like Miami trying to recapture their greatness while also carrying a high graduation rate. Just can’t be done consistently.

Fact is, we are always going to have a national reputation for thug players, whether it is deserved or not. The media is always just one arrest away from slamming FSU like they always have, so I don’t worry about that. We won a national title in a year where we were everyone’s bad guy.

by 38Noles on Nov 7, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Geeez man...
I really don’t care as long as he was capable of still playing football,

So if Jarmon Fortson accepted $500,000 from an agent, you’d be fine with it?

And yes, I do want to be UF.

I find Urban Meyer’s joke of an image disgusting. If you want YOUR coach to be perceived that way, then fine. I don’t.

Fact is, we are always going to have a national reputation for thug players, whether it is deserved or not.

Wrong again. The media loves talking about a coach who ultimately cleaned up a program. A quick google search of “Randy Shannon arrest record” can attest to this.

Let me ask you another question…would you feel the same way if Jarmon was negatively influencing younger players that we’re relying heavily on? Contributing to a flippant attitude towards practice and school work?

If you’d be OK with that, then we probably shouldn’t discuss this further. Most people will not be on your side, anyways.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Taking $500K from an agent would mean he would be ineligible, so no longer capable of playing college football. Randy Shannon’s reputation is an excellent point, but I tend to think once Miami gets that next arrest the media will be quick to turn on him. Some schools just get pigeonholed that way, and we are one of them. I quit caring years ago.

But you’re right, no real reason to continue. As I conceded above, almost no one ever agrees with me about player discipline stuff. I just can’t resist bringing it up now when we’re looking for an answer at receiver.

by 38Noles on Nov 7, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a minute.

You said “as long as he was CAPABLE” of playing football, which pretty much translates to “I don’t give a shit WHAT these players do, just so long as they’re play well for 3 hours on Saturdays”.

Sorry, I just find that attitude unacceptable.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, I don’t care what the players do as long as they can play. Being ruled ineligible by the NCAA prevents them from playing. Right or not, there is far less flexibility with violations of NCAA rules than there is with violations of the law or simply having bad character, but that is our situation.

Most do seem to find that unacceptable, which I can understand.

by 38Noles on Nov 8, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Very good.

By the way, you’ve explained yourself thoroughly and with a candid logic I can appreciate. It’s a rarity these days, and I appreciate it.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the bottom line is this........

Jarmon forced Fishers hand w/ his behavior.

I can’t imagine a single person here who doesn’t want that production right now.

However,when his troubles outweigh his production(ie distractions,negative influence etc)You have to think about the greater good.

Fat chicks need love too.........but they gotta pay - Capt. Glen Quagmire

by Scalpemall on Nov 8, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

totally agree, discipline wise kick him off

but subtract discipline issues and he was our best receiver.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

But you cannot look at it that way.

These are student athletes, not football players. The University has a right to protect itself if it feels a player could potentionally damage it in some fashion, and that’s exactly what happened.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying that he should have been kept...but in one aspect he was a problem child, the other he was the best WR we had

Combine the two and you get a kid that needs to be at UNA more than FSU

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 8, 2010 7:14 AM EST up reply actions  

couldnt agree more on the dline

its seems readily apparent to me now that the pressure from the dline was the major reason for the “over-achievement” of the pass defense early on… as FSU has played more physical and mature olines (coupled w two of the better QBs they will face) that pressure has disappeared and we have all seen the results. 400+ passing yards? Yowsa. You could extend that to support your argument and say the coaching staff is aware of the mismatch and is overplaying to run to compensate.

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

I agree about the line

but I also thought Stoops got schooled also. UNC kept running the same formation all game and there was no adjustment / effective answer to it.

by OGN on Nov 7, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

They weren't running the same formation, they had multiple formations. Even the commentators pointed this out.

I’m not sure if it was Stoops that go schooled or the safeties being out of position. However, I suspect this is on the safeties as I can’t imagine that Stoops would call plays that would allow receivers to be wide open 10 yards behind the closest safety.

by FSUjab on Nov 8, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

i think he relies on the 4 man rush too often.

You cannot expect a group that young to get constant pressure without help from LB and occasional DBs. Stoops got worked by Shoupe and It didn’t look like Shoupe even did anything special.

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the disguised corner blitz and it has worked several time this season.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree!

thought maybe some type of 52 defense or else a nickel. All they did was pass and we didn’t even try to take it away. Coaches got schooled.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Shoupe called a fantastic game against us.

He did a lot of great things and clearly outcoached our defense on this day. They used a wide variety of formations, bunched it out then threw wide, went wide then ran between the tackles, had the tight end chip-block then run a nice seam route. He called a great game and it showed.

by DCNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, he did.

And I don’t care what anyone says, that UNC offense is average…nothing more

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

also just to state the obvious

Bud thanks for all your work. After two no less than heartbreaking losses, to have the fortitude to sit and write an extensive, well thought-out, non-reactionary piece is quite an achievement.

I cannot even bring myself to watch the replay of the kick, which I have no idea how close or not close it was… stupid sweet-ass 50yd line tickets.

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:01 PM EST reply actions  

NCSU still has to face that same UNC team

FSU just needs to stay focused and handle business

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

haha

i guess i should read all the way through there… oops

by DixieNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps

But we could have “handled business” the last two weeks. Very frustrating. The div. was ours for the taking two weeks in a row.

by Invictus13 on Nov 7, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea

but NCSU has beat UNC the last couple of years…so it’s gimmie….not to mention that NCSU’s team is better this year…while UNC may not be…

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by Kelvin Hunt on Nov 8, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

completely agree

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

We’re two plays away from being extremely overrated.

Translation in terms of results: we’re 6-3
Translations in terms of process: we’re way ahead of rebuilding schedule by being in position to win 3 close games where we played horribly.

Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....

by TLHWG on Nov 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

how do you determine

that we are way ahead? we could have been uva bad and still beaten the teams we have beaten; still competed in the games we have lost;

by SalmonNole on Nov 8, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think too many people are locked into their pre-season predictions

Calling for 8-4 in August was reasonable based on FSU’s outlook AND those of our prospective opponents. Considering the schedule is significantly easier than anticipated (BC, UM, UNC, Clem, BYU all being weaker than expected) and still clinging to “8-4 is a success” without adjusting for empirical evidence makes no sense to me. To me, we’ve beaten 6 teams we should’ve, lost to 2 we should’ve and one we shouldn’t have. To me, that is a mild underachievement. Not a total failure though. 7-2 is where we should be. 8-1 would be an overachievement. JMO

"Some people call it swagger, we call it preparation." - Vic Viloria

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 8, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

If you read these boards closely

You’ll find that every 1-loss team is overrated and most of the undefeated’s. So, we’d be fitting nicely into the national picture.

"Some people call it swagger, we call it preparation." - Vic Viloria

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 8, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Halstead is coming along

And I think Dent and Shaw see the field a lot next year, but I doubt the coaches will make the tough decision to bench Bert. Just won’t happen

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Nov 7, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh.

Hopkins is good. I don’t blame him.

Janokowski had a couple big kicks today, though.

by Invictus13 on Nov 7, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh

And is it funny that FSU has two starting kickers in the NFL – the Polish Powder Keg and Gano-mite (or whatever people decided to call him).

by Invictus13 on Nov 7, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post.

I remember beibg that kid at one point in time.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

great post.

not the first Nole fan to cry. I still piss and moan like I’m 7, only now I break expensive things. Probably need to go back to the crying.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

great post

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 8, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

He just turned 7, and honestly, it was too great a day to ever be ruined for me. It was great to be able to take him and really watch the game like you would with a buddy. When he was younger, or even with his older sisters, hell, even with my wife there, I’ve got one eye on the game and one eye on them – are they paying attention, are they cold, too hot, have to go to the bathroom, kicking the person in front of them, etc. We could really watch the game.

But the thing I was most mad about was that it was really a tremendous game, and had it ended like it should have it would have been a fantastic memory for him, instead of him wanting to forget it.

Anyway, there will be many more…

by LouC on Nov 8, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Tough luck for your boy. Lots of wins still in store for him (hopefully).

I was in the bathroom after the game and a kid about 6 years old was washing his hands and looked up at his daddy and said, “worst birthday ever!” It made me laugh . Later as we were leaving the stadium a kid about 8 years old walked by and muttered ,“I’m too old for this..”

Kids offer such a great perspective on life.

by TriNole83 on Nov 8, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Hilarious

It’s a funny age because they’re just starting to understand the whole thing. I’ve been taking my kids to games since they were infants, and up until a certain point it’s just noise and excitement to them. I think it’s still mostly that to my girls. But watching the joy that is football open up to my son this season has been a lot of fun.

And a little annoying. I’ve answered 324,871 questions about football. It’s a non-stop barrage the entire time we watch a game on TV. Everything from

“when there’s a fumble is it better to try to pick it up and run with it or just jump on it” (smart question)

to

“is it a touchdown if you reach out and touch the football to the pylon, but on the outside edge of the pylon from the endzone” (really smart question)

to

“what happens if the quarterback throws the pass and it hits the upright and comes down out of bounds and the line judge catches it and he starts running with it and then he falls down but his knee doesn’t touch the ground but the back of his shoulder blade is the only part of his body that touches, but it’s not actually on the ground because somebody’s shoe fell off and his shoulder blade is actually on the shoe and the ball comes loose and rolls out the back of the endzone but nobody saw what happened.”
(are you sure you don’t want to go help your mom bake cookies)

by LouC on Nov 8, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

could it be that UNC coached got us via play action

How many play action passes were there…I think that is our overall weekness

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

you mean lack of holding calls?

you’re allowed to tackle FSU d lineman.

Def noticeable that we couldn’t get to the QB when it mattered.

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, we need that Everette Brown type of player that can put pressure on when we really need it.

I hope that Jenkins is able to step up into that role next year, with a little more work over the off-season.

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

what, you want Jenkins to be in the backfield every play?

Kid had what…2.5 sacks? You cant expect the line to always put pressure without any type of extra pass blitz.

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Jenkins does get in there, but not on the big downs like Everette used to.

There are certain times toward the end where I’m really hoping for one of our guys to get to the QB, and at those times it doesn’t seem like he’s able to get there. I want to see him step up in critical parts of the game more than he has.

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It wasnt good pressure though

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

That's what he said.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree 100%

markus white was grabbed with both hands and yanked down, the ref touches his hip like he is pulling the flag then lets the play go. Right in front of our section. Everyone went nuts. It was the series after they called Bo on the 3rd down conversion. Terrible

by NoleAmerica on Nov 7, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Goals:

a. Win the division.
2. Win the conference.
D. Win the state.
beer. Win signing day.

by wnc_nole on Nov 7, 2010 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t see a or 2 happening and I really doubt we get D either. I think we’re already winning on beer, though, and will come through strong there. Though, it could have been even better with another couple wins on our record and Clemson will be a big game for recruits (Steward).

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I put us at less than 50% chance of reaching any of those goals.

Barring some monumental collapse from NCSU, I think we lost the division last Thursday. UF will have a lot of players back by the end of this month and is already looking more like it’s old self.

by FSUjab on Nov 8, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

While it has been incredibly frustrating to watch the last two weeks, everyone just needs to remember. FSU will be favored in it’s next two games. If they win those, I think they’ll still win the division. Watching NC State, I doubt they’ll beat UNC.

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by Jonathan Loesche on Nov 7, 2010 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

this is the same

UNC that lost big to Miami and had to comback late against William & Mary. I would not make that assumption – Russell is a playmaker and they can win that game.

by OGN on Nov 7, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

It has been discussed at length

they were without 5 (or more) NFL players against Miami and even more again W&M.

Saying the team Miami beat is the same team we played is ignorant.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going with the thinking that Butch was practicing for FSU for the past two weeks

and it almost cost them vs W&M

Gripper

Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden vs UNC 15-1-1...Jimbo 0-1

by Gripper on Nov 7, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Bingo, like how Oklahoma never watched a minute of Utah St film

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by Jonathan Loesche on Nov 7, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Never watched a minute of Texas A&M film either, apparently.

by Tyler T. on Nov 7, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

seriously?

3 goal line stands? WTF?

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 7, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

FSU has also been favored

the last two weeks. It’s a crap-shoot every time the team takes the field. They will be very fortunate to win both the next two games, and incredibly lucky to beat the gators. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just saying FSU is “off the board” for me the rest of the way.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

And FSU lost those two games on fluke plays. It’s not like during the last few years when things went completely haywire.

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by Jonathan Loesche on Nov 7, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

The Seminoles DID NOT lose on fluke plays.

They failed to win at the end of two games based on what could be described as flukes. There is a difference. Failing to recognize the difference minimizes CJF’s focus on the process. If the team isn’t able to eliminate the problems (i.e. dropped passes, careless penalties, missed tackles, blown assignments) in their remaining games they may again find themselves struggling at the end to pull a win out of their backsides against an underdog.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I do see the differences.

There are positive signs, but the improvements may not result in a significantly better record than last year. Being favored against Clemson and Maryland is all but meaningless given what we’ve seen the past three weeks.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

We should have won both games.

But the fact is that we were not the clearly better team in those games. When you go into a game as an evenly matched team, there is real risk of losing. Until we can go into these games as the clearly better team, we will not be the national championship caliber team that we want to be.

by nolesontop on Nov 8, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If history is any indication

Clemson will come in here like every ACC team and play like it is the Super Bowl. Getting up to play Wake may be tough for them, but being sky-high for FSU will be easy. I’m expecting a tough game. One that we could easily lose the way we’re playing right now.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 9, 2010 6:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Cempsun can't find the business end of a first down against a horrible defense.

While there D is REALLY good their ST and Offense is horrible Clempsun and @ Maryland is not the same as @NCState and UNC. There is a difference going forward.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I hope you're right, but

Our breakdowns the past three weeks have made mediocre teams look like world beaters. If the team can eliminate their mistakes they should win the next two. Unfortunately I think that is a very big “if.”

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

So nice seeing NCstate lose

NCstate still has to play UNC, however I do see that game being very close.

by PatagoniaNole on Nov 7, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions  

Wonder what Tom O'Brien

were thinking after deciding to punt on a 4th an1 rather than go for it, only to see such an awful punt that it only changed the spot by four yards. I laughed, but I know in hind site that is easy to second guess.

by nolestuff on Nov 7, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It was an emotional letdown game for him

He wasn’t prepared to make good decisions after cashing in 8 of his 9 lives against us. And yes, punting there was stupid. He deserved the outcome.

"Some people call it swagger, we call it preparation." - Vic Viloria

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 8, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Bud, it surprises me a little to see you still consider Dustin an "excellent" kicker.

I mean, obviously the kid has a huge leg, but I’m talking about accuracy here. He’s now, what, 10-14 on the year? And he missed a couple big ones yesterday.

I’m not saying he’s not a good kicker, because I think he is, but I would expect an “excellent” kicker to pull us through in that game yesterday. Just found your choice of words interesting.

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 4:18 PM EST reply actions  

He's a kid...did you see his face before he kicked it?

Do you remember what Gano’s face looked like before his big kicks? Completely different. Dustin will get there.

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I was a bit harsh in my assessment, and tend to agree with what you have said 93noleman, but you have to include his misses when analyzing him.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why list his stats before yesterday? Yesterday already happened.

We needed him yesterday as much as any other game this year (probably more) and he didn’t come through for us. I’m hoping that he gets put into another clutch situation this year so that he can redeem himself, but if we do have to bring him in, I’m going to be worried until I see the points on the board.

by seminoleballer on Nov 7, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

How many times has he kicked out of bounds on the kickoffs? I think this was the first game where we’ve seen him kick field goals that mattered.

Gano is the only kicker I’ve trusted in a long time. I’d rather have accuracy over power.

by Weasie on Nov 7, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

when this team is more complete

you are going to want the power for that field position difference he provides

by garnetandgold on Nov 7, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Gano

was freaking clutch. would have loved to have in ’91, ’92.

by nole country for old men on Nov 7, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

He seems to do well with the longer kicks

It’s almost automatic when he kicks from around 50 yards, but anything from 30 – 40 yards he struggles with. I’m assuming his strong leg is almost a liability on those mid-range kicks.

by PSLNOLE on Nov 7, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

If that's true

it’s purely mental and can be trained out of him.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah strong leg is only a disadvantage if he uses it as an excuse not to work on his craft.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

let's hope they do us that favor for ruining homecoming

After that TD to put us up, Doak was finally full of energy from both the crowd and the team. Only to have NC drive right down the field.

by NoleAmerica on Nov 7, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Ponder looked great, too

3 TDs, 250+ yards, 65+% completion percentage (even with all the dropped balls).

Just no 2nd half production from the O

by nbj08 on Nov 7, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Opposing defense adjust in the 2nd half...

apparently Jimbo & Coley don’t or refuse to.

Gripper

Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden vs UNC 15-1-1...Jimbo 0-1

by Gripper on Nov 7, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Bud

made a great point, if you noticed, about slowing down in the second half to give the defense some learning time on the sidlines; obviously, the strategy backfired and we lost as a result, but i don’t know that its all on refusal to adjust

by SalmonNole on Nov 7, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I call bull on that

Fisher has a problem stepping on people when they’re down. He is already a suspect playcaller in my mind but if he did try to just tippy toe a victory because the D was having problems, then I will think even less of his playcalling skills.

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And I call "Bull"...

…on your bull. A suspect play caller; please call Nick Saban and explain how dumb he was to seek out poor Jimbo for the Dolphins and BAMA. i guess Nick isn’t as up on the game as some of us. What I really mean to say is…good grief.

fm

Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.

by fmnole on Nov 7, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

just because saban wanted him for his OC doesn't make him great

He was a questionable play caller at LSU and he’s a questionable play caller now. I think he is a good qb coach but in terms of knowing the flow of the game and situational decisions…lacking.

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Saban's the best HC in football right now...

and Jimbo won a National Championship as a play caller, and that was with JAMARCUS RUSSELL

by garnetandgold on Nov 7, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

rec'd for good sense

I think the Miami game threw expectations out of whack a bit here. And of course some fans are just idiots. But it’s a process, and it’s ridiculous to expect Fisher to have fixed all of the program’s problems in just one year. Patience is what is needed right now. Things will get better.

by bigdukesix on Nov 7, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

You know, the same thought basically occurred to me. Game time threads can be cool and informative but people get out of control in their reactions to things. I feel like the past few weeks all I was reading is “rabble rabble rabble!”

Chill out, folks. Things will get better.

by AmplifiedJ on Nov 7, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I've tried to avoid them now

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I have attended ONE this year. Never again.

Appalled at some of the things that were said. I realize that it’s mostly booze and emotions, but still…we are supposed to be adults watching a bunch of kids play a game. No need for some stuff

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You should try

a Redskins game thread on HogsHaven … my God, those guys make these guys here look positively cheerful and rational.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

This too

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 8, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah it just serves to anger me that I can’t form a response to every stupid comment and watch the game.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 8, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

Remember Saban’s first yera at Alabama??? 6-0, then they finished 7-6. It takes time. Calling for Jimbo’s head makes about as much sense as saying the sky is falling. It is not. Yes we want to go to a BCS game. Yes we want to win the conference. Yes we want to win the division. But this coaching staff has not even had a full reruiting cycle for Pete’s sake. Slow down. Breathe. The program is heading in the right direction. The talent is growing. We are seeing the players make mistakes that are coachable. The players are no longer out of position because they have no idea what the Hell they are doing. Young kids learning a new system and trying to figure it out on the football field. everyone relax.

by Mateo9399 on Nov 8, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Bama '07 did not start 6-0

Through their first 6 games they were 4-2, 6-2 through 8, and lost 4 in a row to close the regular season. 7th win was the bowl game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Alabama_Crimson_Tide_football_team

by nbj08 on Nov 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Close enough.

Though I feel compelled to point out that FSU was one of the contributors to Bama’s less-than-stellar record that year.

by tuckwell on Nov 8, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

2nd Half and Depth

I believe you have touched on this at some point, but I believe our lack of depth on defense is really hurting us. We have lost most of the 2nd halves of our games this season, to Wake, Miami, and obviously the last 2 weeks. We scored 1 TD in 2nd half yesterday, and that was because we got the ball at the 2 yard line.

I’m hoping it’s the lack of depth and not the coaching staff not making adjustments and getting out coached in the 2nd half. No way we beat the Gators at this pace.

by Nole23 on Nov 7, 2010 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

1 TD, yes

That wasn’t a depth issue on the offense. I think we quit the No Huddle because the defense was worn out.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It's fairly obvious now late in the season about the lack of depth on defense

we don’t have the personnel to rotate on the D-Line. If we did we could have run the no huddle in the 2nd half and not had to worry about a game winning field goal attempt. Let’s face it…our lack of depth and fact that we are in year 1 of a new system caught up with us. But everybody should recognize the progress. Another year in the system and getting McCray and Cummings another full year in the program will be huge. I think we will be rotating 5 or 6 on the interior next year and that gives us a tremendous advantage in 2011 that we don’t have in 2010. I know everyone loves the skill positions, but the big nasty’s in the trenches are what make or break a football team.

Side Note: Dawkins is definitely not the same guy right now. That thumb injury has obviosuly affected his effectiveness.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Nov 7, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

That third quarter alone was probably enough to wear out even a deep defense.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 7, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

My television was still on

at the end of the game. And that Nole fans is the big difference between this season and last season. Yes, the Noles lost two heart-breakers yes they’ve a lot to improve upon. Yet, here we are right down to the last second in these games with the ability to actually win the game. Last year I would have turned the game off at half-time, or some time in the early third quarter. I couldn’t have taken the beat down.

We have a quality staff, some quality players, and a team concept that hasn’t been there in years. Hang in there, good days are ahead. I’m not happy FSU lost to NC and NC State, but I didn’t turn the channel or turn the tv over to the wife to watch Runway Models once this year.
I still hear drums in the distance and things are going to get better.

by Panhandle Nole on Nov 7, 2010 5:03 PM EST reply actions  

how many

games were we out of in the fourth quarter last year? most of the losses came down to the last possession (miami, bc, gt); clemson and usf we were within a score in the fourth:

by SalmonNole on Nov 7, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

CJF needs to bench Greg Reid on defense

He was 1-on-1 with Jones for most of the game, and giving up 233yds to a single receiver is not acceptable. He was biting on the PA constantly, and Jones would get 2-3 steps on him. He let Jones get behind the zone, and seemed to give up on a few plays. I would rather start Joyner or Harris, and use Reid in the nickel where he can freelance across the middle.

Team Gold - Winner of the 1st TN FSU Spring Football Fantasy Draft

by basaltrock on Nov 7, 2010 5:05 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I like what Mike Harris when he's on the field.

Plus, G5 may play four years here. Not what I would have thought before the season started.

I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor

by slumgullion on Nov 7, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately missed the game yesterday...

Sounds like Bert Reed must have had an awful day. Was there a lack of effort, crap attitude, or is it just that he’s playing really poorly and dragging the team down?

by NoleDBA00 on Nov 7, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

Wish I could say I missed it

I watched every single dropped pass and then foolishly got my hopes up (for the second week in a row) that we were going to pull out the win in the last few seconds of the game.

We are a mediocre team right now with one lop-sided win under out belt against a mediocre Miami team.

I’m not quite ready to say we should be favored versus any of our remaining games at this point. I think its 50/50 for Clemson because of their defense and our butter fingers offense, 50/50 versus Maryland just because the Fridge likes donuts and 25/75 versus Florida because they figured out Burton can run that stupid dive play up the middle that we can’t stop.

That’s way too much negativity from me, but I’m tired of being optimistic this year :)

I do think we are heading in the right direction though, I just get so damn tired of saying “next year” in my conversations about FSU football.

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 7, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Missed the game too

but was on a plane and wifi connected with my mobile and able to follow play by play. I raised my hands and said WTF every time this happened…..14 passes of more than 10 yards. 67, 56, 39, 38, 31, 27, 22, 19, 16, 14, 14, 12, 11, 10. The poor old lady next to me was rather confused by my actions. Those are some bad numbers…..

by maxi_judson on Nov 7, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

He was the worst player in the game

Greg Reid close 2nd

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 7, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

was #5

really matched up 1 on 1 most of the day w/the carolina receiver that was racking up 200+ on us? i saw that written somewhere

by nole country for old men on Nov 7, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

yes.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 7, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, He got schooled by the bigger, stronger man.

The problem was Xavier had a guy the same size on his side, so they couldn’t switch off. UNC’s receivers played very, very well and I saw some very, very good route combinations from the stands.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but how many times did you hear Xavier's name called?

NONE. Which tells me that Mr. Rhodes is playing out of his mind if his WR is a monster as well, which you confirmed.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree, but X can't play both sides. He was built to stop WR's like UNC's

Reed, Harris, and Joyner would all have had trouble against multiple 6’3"-6’4" 220 lb WR’s sets.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup.

Kid is a freshman, too.

Millionaire….one day

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Reid's size had nothing to do

with him getting beat over and over again by 5+ yards. Size would not have helped, technique on the other hand….

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

TWSS

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

that is possible

but not the way reid was getting beat. 5 more inches of height would not have fixed his level of fail.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

More like he had

5 yards on Reid. If we were playing to stop the run, I would assume the corners had deep third responsibility. Isn’t rule number one then do not let anyone get behind you?

by Nolegrad89 on Nov 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I could be wrong here

but it looked like he was playing a lot of 1 on 1 coverage. You do not want to engage with a receiver on the line because if you lose, you get beat every time. He was flat out getting beat.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you

I am saying Reid should not have been concerned with providing any support other than keeping his receiver in front of him, since he did not have help deep.

by Nolegrad89 on Nov 8, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

You play 6'4" receivers a whole lot different than 5'11" receivers

and it doesn’t help if both are faster than you. JMO.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

And his speed can help immensly when he makes mistakes

Reid does not have that catchup speed. Thats why Deion was so “good”. He was actually a very average corner, but he had such amazing speed and quickness that he was able to overcome all technique and leverage mistakes with his elite quickness. G5 does not have that.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

this is exactly what I told a friend.

He could make up for making bad choices/playing the ball and/or receiver wrong with his speed in high school and teams like BYU, Wake, etc. Not the case facing good/great receivers with good QBs. Not in the college game. Has to learn his job better.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the coaches will learn this

I figure next year either Vic will have made him alot faster and he and X go All-ACC or his tendons are maxed out and won’t let him get any faster and Stoops keeps him mainly in zone coverage and uses LJ and Harris alot more.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I still have plenty of hope for Reid.

Hopefully it is just being young, learning a new system, learning what his gifts and vulnerabilities are etc. He still pulls this stuff next year, he should specialize in KR/PR and wildcat…

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Question Bud

Don’t you think Harris should be starting opposite Rhodes at the corner position. G5 is a return guy and nickel corner IMO at this stage. He’s not a guy you can count on to lockdown one side of the field.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Nov 7, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Parks was hands down the worst player on the field

Reed and Reid played terrible but at the same time did make a couple plays. Parks(#4) is completely lost. He should never see the field. The only time I saw him engaged in the game is when he was chasing down a receiver 5 to 10 yards behind him. He just roams around blindly until his next routine “oh shit” moment hits.

by cerebralfish on Nov 8, 2010 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought the same thing

Mangum moments as in “oh sh^^, i better go stop the run….. wait just a damn minute… Oh no! It’s a pass”

I think out defensive line is just tired. The depth was bound to catch up with us at some point. This is where the loss of Moses McCray really, really hurts.

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

New outlook:

Expect the worst in each of the remaining games. That way, no matter what happens, you won’t get disappointed.

If we win, I’ll be ecstatic of course :)

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 7, 2010 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

George F. Will says that

the great thing about pessimism is that you’re constantly being proven right, or pleasantly surprised.

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.

by ricobert1 on Nov 7, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I usually don't complain about referees because I think it's exeragerated usually, but

some of those no-calls were on big pass plays. I recall one that happened within 5 feet of the head ref and I guess he was picking daisies because Markus White looked like he was dragging tires behind him. Yates had all day to throw much of the game and was able to find his underneath routes running wide open. Some of that was due to good protection and weak pressure, but I was amazed at the # of no calls.

Offense looked sharp at times, moreso than in the past, but then they hit a wall in the 2nd half. I haven’t looked back at our opening drives in the 2nd half for the year, but it doesn’t seem like many of them have been very good. It kills any momentum from the first half.

I agree with Bud on Reed. He looked lost. Haulstead had a big drop in the opening series to kill a drive, but looked great otherwise. I did see alot more of Shaw and Dent after Reed started to crap himself. Taiwan and Haulstead seemed to play the majority of the game.

Did we ever throw to Reliford?

We missed Ty Jones running out there. He can be the clear #1 back if he wants it.

Oh and TJ Yates runs a nice PA. We were killed with passes on running downs all day.

by coonhound on Nov 7, 2010 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

Reliford was not in much

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

remember a lot of 4 wide

and double RB shotgun sets.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm just ready to see Christian Green next season

He better be the big time go-to WR everyone is talking about because, other than Haulstead, our receiver corps is garbage. This does fall on Dawsey’s shoulders. Is Trooper Taylor available? The Auburn WR corps has a ridiculous workout regiment that we should start considering.

#100passcatchesperPRACTICEWarEagle

by CCDFSU07 on Nov 7, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed he will probably not come in right away and be a game-changer

but he did redshirt this year so he will be familiar with the playbook which should greatly enhance his ability to contribute.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The Spring will tell somewhat.

I’d feel good if we just had two or three very consistent receivers with a loaded backfield.

by coonhound on Nov 7, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that may be exactly what happens

It will be just like last year’s offense only with better backs.

I really think EJ is going to be crazy good.And he’ll have a defense to back him up.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Goodman and Owens were undervalued.

But if you recall with them, they really didn’t bloom until their last year. Owens was constantly under fire for dropping passes.

Perhaps it’s just a function of that awful recruiting that we have so little veteran depth at WR.

by coonhound on Nov 7, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

In 2-3 years we'll know if its recruiting or coaching

I hope it was recruiting

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Dudes what are you smokin'

This whole conversation reeks of the “lemming express”. We have been outcoached three games straight. It seems like we have talent, but it sure ain’t being coached to it’s potential.By this juncture I expected we wouldn’t be making the same dumb-ass mistakes we made in the past. I’m still on the Jimbo train, but “SHOW ME THE MONEY”

by thejourney on Nov 7, 2010 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

Our talent was outcoached the last 10 years. Think of it as being "less outcoached".

There’s lots of bad habits still out there and a lot of young guys that should not be put in the situations we are asking of them.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Haha. Welcome to my world.

It will be better though as our guys soak up the new scheme. It’s hard to think Stoops might be trusting them too much, but maybe he thought our Secondary was more capable than that? Either way he was wrong and I expect his approach to change drastically from the UNC game.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 7, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

it seems the halftime adjustment we made for our defense's poor first half play

was to slow down our offense. i understand what the coaches were thinking, but it sure didn’t work. i guess we don’t have to worry about losing stoops to a headcoaching gig next year

by nole country for old men on Nov 7, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

cosign

I really think Jimbo needs a play caller behind him. I think coley is in the booth but I’m pretty sure Jimbo calls plays. We’ve been getting wildly outcoached the past few games.

by ryandinho on Nov 7, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I love how...

fans who want to see results are “fickle and ignorant”

by NicktheNole on Nov 8, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Good read Bud.

Now that I have calmed down a little bit from yesterday, I now still see the big picture. We are a rebuilding plain and simple. I expected growing pains and that is exactly what we are getting. I, like many others on here predicted us to go 8-4 and I still think that is attainable. Our guys just need to regroup and get ready to play a pretty good Clemson team.

by fsunole23 on Nov 7, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions  

As much as I enjoyed and will relish the spanking we gave Miami, it might have been the worst thing that could have happen for the team, the coaches, and for the fans.

Possibly a close win would have been better for all concerned.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

You're kidding right??

What kind of thinking is that?? We’ve played one complete game all season (against UM). We’ve since regressed and could easily be on a 3 game losing streak. The question is why?

Given all the well documented changes that Jimbo has made to program, its not unreasonable to expect that we improve as the season goes on. Instead we’re regressing in many areas and limping down the home stretch against very average ACC football teams.

No excuses, it is what it is.

Sorry had to vent. Took my daughters to homecoming only to have them witness that ugly defensive showing along with witnessing their person “wide right” in person.

by FtLauderdaleNole on Nov 7, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The way I meant it was if we had beaten UM in a close game, then maybe

A) our players heads wouldn’t have swelled, they would have concentrated more in practice, and maybe they would not have struggled against the likes of BC and the 2 NC teams.
2) The coaches would have realized that the process is still a work in progress and come up with better game plans and not been outcoached.
D) The fans expectations would not have changed from 8-4 overnight to 10-2 or better.

Again, I’m thrilled with the results of the UM game, I am just thinking what if, and I do realize it might not have mattered in the grand scheme of things.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

what you're trying to say is...

…our team was over-fluffed by the media after the Miami game. When the cameras started rolling again, it was apparent we were too deep into the fluff.
“aaaannnd….ACTION!”
“CUT!!! Really? Already?”

by The K-Man on Nov 8, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I fluff myself before each post on TN....

See that?? Turgid….

8===>

Oderint Dum Metuant

by DRusso97 on Nov 10, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Stopped and talked to DHop on my way through campus today

A very encouraging young man. I told him I was particularly moved by his taking refuge in God, who cares for the broken in spirit (Ira Schoefel’s write up)

Helps me remember that these aren’t just young players; they’re young men.

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.

by ricobert1 on Nov 7, 2010 6:27 PM EST reply actions  

fair enough

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.

by ricobert1 on Nov 7, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC Hopkins has never been in that position before--

kick a game winning field goal. The kid is really talented, but young. He’ll make up for it many times over while at FSU.

Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....

by TLHWG on Nov 7, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

I told my little bro before he kicked it that I wasn’t sure about this. Kid had never been in that position before. I don’t care HOW good he is…that’s a mind job.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 7, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Kickers live to be put in that situation.

Will have no confidence in his ability to handle pressure kicks until he actually makes one.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 7, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

and if he makes just one I don’t know if he misses another game winner his entire career.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

possibly.

got to find that mojo.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he should have been

put in that situation either. Still, he CANNOT miss two fourth quarter field goals. Just can’t. Janikowski, Gano, Bentley, Rendina, Capece, Cappelin would have drained both. It isn’t asking too much for him to hit 1 of 2. I saw him on campus today too. He looked like he still felt really bad. I’m glad. He needs to feel bad. He needs to remember what this feels like and NEVER let it happen again.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't agree with your spite. He must be allowed to get past his bad kicks.

This reminds me of an old story I read in ESPN magazine about when Mariano Rivera was coming into his own as a closer. He had just given up multiple runs, including a crushing game-winning HR, in a crucial late-season matchup. Usually the young Rivera would have panicked and started berating himself, but this time he didn’t. He talked it over with his pitching coach, came to the conclusion that he was doing all the right things, that his mechanics and practice routines were sound, and decided to let it go and not let a single bad game affect him. Long story short, he kept his cool, trusted his throwing motion, and started being lights out on a nightly basis.

Same with Hopkins. He’s such a great kicker that we forget he’s just a sophomore. So he had a bad game-so what? Doesn’t mean he sucks. A sophomore having an inconsistent day is not news. What matters more than any one kick is how he’s practicing, how sound his mechanics are, and the consistency of his kicking motion. If he’s doing all the right things, we shouldn’t be afraid to trust him with the ball when the game’s on the line. He will make far more of them than he misses over time.
The last thing I want to see is another case like Matt Munyon’s. Kid was a mere freshman when he was run off the team for not kicking a 49-yard miracle against Miami. What happened to him in the aftermath of that kick was an utter travesty and I hope I never see that from our fan base (or our coaches) ever again.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Nov 8, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

agree

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Nov 8, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially considering that Munyon

was practically an after-thought as a PK. He’d come here from Rutherford High School in Panama City as a WR. As a PK in high school he was pretty average. For him to come so close in that situation from 50+ was an accomplishment.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Munyon had other problems.

The kind of problems that showed up on police blotters later. He got a lot of heat for narrowly missing the kick against the Canes but think that it led to him being “hounded” off the team.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Im pretty sure that Graham really didnt come into his own until later in his career...

Im not sure that Sophomore Gano is as “automatic” as you percieve him to be.

Besides, kickers have to work through this stuff. I’ll trade a learning experience now for a big kick in 2012 for a bigger win.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Gano only kicked field goals

one year. He was behind Gary “Natty Lite” Cismesia before that. The only year Gano kicked he was 24 of 26. Pretty darn good. Hopkins so far this year is 10 of 14. 19 of 27 last year…

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

If only it was that easy.

PKing is a cruel mistress. You succeed or you fail in front of thousands in the stadium and millions more on television. Second chances don’t always come around. I don’t mean to sound “spiteful” because I agree that the final outcome was much more influenced by a handful of plays throughout the game than it was by Hopkins’ kick. But, if you treat misses like hits, regarding them as no different, ultimately your success rate will be determined more by chance than skill, practice and execution. It’s the same for any player, it’s just more obvious with a PK.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice job Rico

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Nov 7, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

if you cant read this article and realize this is a much different team from years past, you’re ignorant. this team is actually……um…..a team.

I’m still reminded of the division of the team related to rix and mcpherson. the future is bright, fellow noles.

by 81FSUnole on Nov 7, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Ira's write up in the Democrat Sunday...

was phenomenal. Hopkins is a good kid. We have nothing to worry about there.

by TriNole83 on Nov 8, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't care if a kicker worships satan.

can he kick game winners? All I care about.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

I’ve wondered if the team’s extremely Christian culture (and extremely Protestant at that) has alienated good atheletes of other religious backgrounds. We’re a public school, I think we should be careful to allow people to express their religious stuff in a way that’s inclusive and not favoring one religion over another.

by EricNole on Nov 8, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I was using hyperbole there...

I don’t think there is a football team in the country that doesn’t have a pre-game prayer. Trust me, this regime is nothing like it was on that front for all of Bowden’s tenure.

That stuff is not alienating anyone. Should have no worries about that.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

It's more of a cultural Christianity than outright evangelical

We’re a southern school; par for the course.

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.

by ricobert1 on Nov 8, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Understood, and it's probably all fine under Jimbo.

But I remember reading or watching an interview with a former player who’s now in the NFL (for the life of me I can’t remember who it was). They were one of the players that hardly saw the field at FSU but were doing pretty well in the pros. Anyway, they made a comment about how if you didn’t go to church or weren’t a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, etc., the old coaching staff really held it against you.

Maybe that was just his excuse for not performing while at FSU, but I hope that kind of thing doesn’t happen anymore. Just something I’ve wondered about for a while.

Also, I know Bobby’s Christian image probably attracted far more recruits than it turned off, I just think times are changing and we need to be a little more sensitive about this kind of stuff now.

by EricNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember that...

can’t remember who it was either.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, I know Bobby’s Christian image probably attracted far more recruits parents than it turned off

There-fixed it for you.

All kidding aside, we need to remember that Bobby’s from an earlier era of coaching, and his views on church are typical of that era. Bill Peterson was also involved with FCA, as were many other coaches of the time. It was a way a coach could “keep the kids out of trouble,” especially in the South of 2-3 generations ago.
There was also a more practical aspect. Younger people don’t realize this, but 2-3 generations ago church was the primary place where guys in the South went to find a date. So a coach encouraging his players to go to church served 2 purposes: religious instruction and helping his players to get girlfriends, both of which would do their part to keep his boys out of the newspapers.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Nov 9, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Ponder is Catholic

I see him at mass all the time.

So, if the team leader is Catholic, then it can’t be an “extremely” Protestant culture.

by nbj08 on Nov 8, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it true he fumbled the communion wafer when the priest handed it to him?

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

How'd this not get rec'd?

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Nov 8, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm gonna have to disagree with Bud on the "letting them score strategy." Never, never let them score. Too many things can happen as we witnessed against NCST.

The odd’s of scoring a touchdown with around 1:30 would have been slim. As it turned out, stuffing them was the right way to go as it gave us a better opportunity to win the game.

But I do agree we should have used the TO’s after the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down. As it turned it, if all things would have played out the same way they did if we had used the TO after 1st down, we would have still had one TO left when Yates stupidly went out of bounds.

On the down before the FG attempt, we should have run the ball to the middle of the field instead of the lame ass kneel down. There was enough time left and we had a TO to burn.

Hopkins had a bad game and choked, but I really can’t think of another kicker I would replace him with, especially since he will be here for 2 more years.

Reed should be our 3rd or 4th receiver and should only play in the slot. I know it probably isn’t fair, but every time he f*cks up, I keep thinking of the Fox video where he is dogging it at practice and Jimbo tells him to break a sweat. Again, probably not fair, but I can’t help it.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

*with a field goal*
As it turned out, stuffing them was the right way to go as it gave us a better opportunity to win the game.

Much better probability of hitting a FG than scoring a TD with less than 2 minutes to go.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd replace him with Gano

but that’s probably not fair. I havne’t looked at the stats of Gano vs. Janikowski, but Gano was my favorite kicker here; he never seemed to mess up and always came through with a big play when we needed him to. I don’t blame Dustin for the loss, though.

by EricNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

There are a bunch of kickers I would replace him with who have graduated, I meant there isn't another current college player I would replace him with,

especially since he is only a soph.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

My $0.02 on the game:

First, did this remind anyone else of a 90’s FSU-UM game? It sure did me, and I started to think we would lose the game in the third quarter. When we lost due to a last minute “wide right,” that definitely sealed it.

In the preview thread, I said that everyone was being way too optimistic and that there was a serious chance we lose this game. I have to give it to UNC—they outplayed us and deserved to win. I did NOT see T.J. Yates becoming Joe Montana (or maybe Dan Marino with the light blue uniform) though. That was hard to watch.

This was a hard game to lose because I thought we “should” have won against NCSU, and then we blew this one when we were again in a good position to win the game. I think most of us feel that if we had gone 1-1 vs. the North Carolina teams that would be okay, but we shouldn’t have lost to both of them. Oh well. There’s still a chance we win the division, and hell if we lose to Clemson but beat UF I’ll call the season a success.

The holding/illegal block penalties make we want to go on “safari” to Africa and kill thousands of zebras indiscriminately, letting their corpses rot in the sun 19th-century British colonial style.

Regarding Bert Reed, I hope we don’t let him graduate because we’re so thin (aren’t we losing Taiwan to baseball after this season?). I agree he has been disappointing, and what I really hope is that other receivers will step up and allow him to move back to the slot for his senior year. Hopefully that way he’ll produce like he did in 2009.

As an aside, I REALLY DO NOT want Virginia Tech to be ACC champs. How would it look if the ACC champs lost to Boise State and James Madison? It might put Boise in the National Championship game and then I’ll really want to hurt zebras or broncos or something.

by EricNole on Nov 7, 2010 6:54 PM EST reply actions  

Also, about halftime adjustments

We just don’t seem to be making any this year. I think maybe the Defense is still learning, so they just don’t know enough to really be able to change much yet during a game. But the offense has played badly in the second half for a few games. I’m not doubting Jimbo, but I wonder how the OC/Head Coach duties are really split up. I see Jimbo as a Head Coach and de facto Offensive Coordinator (maybe that’s not how it is, but it seems like it), and maybe that’s just too much for one person? Does anyone know what Coley’s responsibilities are?

by EricNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem is that we always lead at the half

so there’s no real adjustments to be made. Then once we have our 3rd qtr let-down, our staff-players are unable to make adjustments during gametime.

Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....

by TLHWG on Nov 7, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Here ya go

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/12/15/1201253/should-jimbo-fisher-call-plays-as

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The only thing that reminded me of a 90s

FSU-Miami game was the way it ended. Seeing two mediocre teams try to under-perform one another for four quarters hardly conjures up memories of Derrick Brooks, Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, Warrick Dunn, et. al.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

True enough.

I meant more from an emotional standpoint.

by EricNole on Nov 8, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

It sure had a similar

roller coaster ride feel to it! You’re right about that.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Pcolanole, take the rest of the day off. When reinstated if you say F*ck again you will be banned permanently.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 7, 2010 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

I've thought the F-bomb, and worse

but thinking it and writing it are two different things. There’s obviously a lot of frustration being expressed here.

by Dauntless12 on Nov 7, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

FOR "STATS" LOVERS.........

10/30 W&M W 21-17 9 107 11.9 26 0 0 0 0.0 0 0
11/06 @FSU W 37-35 8 233 29.1 67 1 0 0 0.0 0 0
Thats the last two receiving games for N.C.‘s leading ball catcher. I’d say it speaks eloquently about our pass defense. william and powerhouse mary held him to one more catch , but 126 FEWER yards.
  Now i’ve read all the above about young team still learning, stopping the run after NCS ran at will last week, but c-mom………….william and mary?? does anyone honestly think any of those players start/ play in our secondary? I’m sorry guys, but SOMETHING stinks in the kitchen!
p.s. even from my T.V “ANGLED” view, CP7 was obviously throwing a much crisper, more accurate ball Saturday. Also of note….as we seem to be floundering at times, the darn gayterds are obviously getting their act together. It may well be ANOTHER painful game.

by OLDNOLE60 on Nov 7, 2010 8:02 PM EST reply actions  

The W&M comparisons are misguided

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought the secondary was the weak link in this game.

G5 with 2 burns, Parks with 1 and Moody with 1. None of them should have ever let the receivers get past them. I know they feel like they have to help with the run but they have to make sure they keep everything in front of them first. We do not have the guys we need in there yet.

And the Bert steppin out of the endzone is because Ponder waited too long to make the throw.

by Jbeau on Nov 7, 2010 10:00 PM EST reply actions  

This game reminded me so much of the Miami game last year for our defense

They continuely passed on first down when they were in running formations and we could do nothing to stop it. I don’t know why our coaches continued to put 8 men in the box the entire game after seeing what the NC offense was doing but they did. Miami did the same thing last year, passed on first down and we never changed up and we gave up big plays just like that miami game. I do think that the D was focused on stopping the run too much and I think the slow death that NC state gave us last week had a lot to do with it.

by Dizzim on Nov 7, 2010 10:05 PM EST reply actions  

Bud

Any chance at all that some package for EJ will see the field? I thought Ponder played well and I loved seeing us throw a crossing route more than 10 yards downfield, but since we cannot build a lead in like years how can we prepare for next year.

I know it’s mostly frustration but their is no Heisman or ACC title or awards coming for Ponder as it looks now. Why can’t we work the future into a few games? I mean he only went 3 for 4 last year to get us bowl eleg. with the only loss being at UF.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 10:09 PM EST reply actions  

He played a little

in the Samford and Miami games. I don’t think EJ plays unless we’re up by 4+ TDs and in the 4th quarter. He’ll have all spring and summer to get used to being “the guy” so he’ll be fine.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Would like to think of the future as now.

Guess if we lose to Clemson next week it will be a lock to see him even in close games. Coach Richt had packages for future starters even in close games. EJ already has won a few games for us and I would like to see him go in with the 1st team one of these days.

Heck, he threw a td vs OU.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I hope not

You risk disrupting the offense, assuming we can get any sort of offensive rhythm in the first place. I understand the argument for it, but right now, EJ doesn’t offer anything Ponder can’t also offer, along with more experience. They can both run, and now that Ponder’s arm finally looks right, they can both throw deep and throw the flats with zip. It’s just not really advantageous to the team right now to use packages for EJ because he doesn’t change the game.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree with both.

Ponder is playing well, I would just like to see EJ get some quality reps. We are looking to next season, no? We have to start.

by pb4957 on Nov 7, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not looking to next season.

I’m not sure why anyone would be, there’s still plenty to play for this season.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't look to next season until the goals for this season are in hand or completely out of reach.

If we beat UNC and lock up the ACCCG against Clemson (assuming that Maryland and NC State had lost) then I suspect EJ plays a ton against Maryland before UF, and so does a lot of other young guys.

I really would have loved to see that. {Sigh}

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I won't be laughing.

I fully believe EJ will be the best QB at FSU since Weinke, and perhaps since Ward. However, RIGHT NOW, he’s not. He needs time to practice and assume control of the team as the starter before he can grow into that role. Right now, he really doesn’t offer anything that Ponder does not.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

You can bench a "marginal" talent for the future.

You don’t bench an NFL talent for the future, regardless of what we’re playing for. Getting kids to the league does wonders for recruiting.

by jasonole59 on Nov 8, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless they are hurt. Then their performance suffers.

Ponder’s arm looked as strong as it has all year on Saturday. At least that is encouraging. We even threw the ball past 20 yards a few times.

by coonhound on Nov 8, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

He was a starter and did really great. Seemed like the WVA game revolved around EJ.

There was no talk of how the line didn’t block well, or WR’s running wrong routes or dropping balls. He led the Noles to a big victory and was the MVP. I think he is ready. It is just not JF style to give him that chance yet. That is the same reason that Bert Reed is still starting.

by Jbeau on Nov 7, 2010 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

Played a nice game

and held the team together well to get out of the season with enough wins to even make that bowl game. I don’t doubt EJ could come in and run the offense as well as Ponder right now. I just don’t see any clear advantage to him being in the game, risking injury and risking messing with Ponder’s head. Now, if EJ does get put in for some packages, I won’t be upset about it. It could confuse a defense or something. I just don’t see any particular package that EJ gives you a better edge in at this point. Give him a full offseason as the starter, and he’ll make this offense his own, he’ll become the leader and he’ll start a journey that I firmly believe has us playing for a national championship in 2012.

by tuckwell on Nov 7, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Ponder is 4th on the FSU quarterback list all time

No coach is going to take him out for no reason. There is still an outside chance at the division with some extreme luck involved. There is also the matter of getting win over UF. That is big on the agenda also. Ponder gives the best shot here.

We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher

by DocHoliday2 on Nov 7, 2010 11:51 PM EST reply actions  

We don't need extreme luck

We just need the favored team to win next week vs Clemson and in the NC St. – UNC game.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

The Tradition Continues....

The post dynastic mediocrity has perpetuated with Jimbo Fisher rather than ended with the ‘retirement’ of legendary coach Bobby Bowden. With the outcome of this season starting to unfold, it now appears that the new coaching staff is little improvement over the previous staff, so it makes you wonder why the FSU Athletic department would ‘force out’ the man who made FSU football into a household name.

Jimbo Fisher’s offense has shown that it is predictable in several ways; run on first down for no gain; can’t catch passes that are clearly catchable and a inability to eliminate avoidable penalties consistently.

As for the defense, it seems everyone knows how to beat the FSU defense except maybe the University of Miami. Coach Stoops and his staff are first year to the program so this is somewhat understandable early in the season but not late.

I see three more likely losses for the Noles; Clemson, Florida and the bowl game opponent. At this point, I would not be totally surprises if FSU loses at Maryland as well.
Coach Bobby is getting the last laugh after all.

by SeminoleDan80 on Nov 8, 2010 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

I am 99% sure this post is sarcastic

You should probably just agree with me here.

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmmmmm.

I suppose you were making the same argument in defense of the Darrell Mudra era when Coach Bowden started 5-6 in 1976, including a blowout, shutout loss to Miami?

by Fsued on Nov 8, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

pretty sure

he is joking. Unless he is a different ‘seminoledan80’ that wrote this after the OU loss:

Why FSU fans should not panic
Anyone who would panic at this point as little faith in the program AND has not paid attention to what the coaches are doing. All along this game was thought to be a strong possibility for a loss. Yes, the outcome appears to indicate we are not where we had hoped to be but I believe these coaches know what they are doing and will use this game as a major teaching opportunity.

It was only the second game for our new staff against a very established program on the road in a very hostile playing environment. This is a benchmark to be used towards the end on this season and for years to come to measure how much we improve.

You can run all the scenarios you want to overblow the team into something that it is yet to be but the bottom line is that it takes time to build good play habits and to break old ones and this will sometimes take setbacks when facing a solid opponent.

I don’t know, maybe 2 close losses is enough to pull a 180?

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Not only a 180, but irrationality to boot
Jimbo Fisher’s offense has shown that it is predictable in several ways; run on first down for no gain; can’t catch passes that are clearly catchable and a inability to eliminate avoidable penalties consistently.

Jimbo Fisher’s offense is predictable because the receivers can’t catch passes that are clearly catchable…

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not understanding

why that doesn’t make not any sense. Wait. What?

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes I worry that if I leave food droppings on the floor, the roaches will come crawling out from under the baseboards.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Nov 8, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand why there is so much discussion about the offense

It played well enough to win. IMO, it was a defensive fail, totally.

We made no defensive adjustments at halftime (again) and the NC receivers were running wide open down the field. I commented to my husband that someoje sneaked the 2009 defense back on the field.

by ladyjustice on Nov 8, 2010 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

Don't think anyone has called out the offense as being bad

but they have yet to play a complete game since Miami. 100 yards in the second half is not getting it done. Complete lack of execution in multiple quarters over the last 3 games.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

The offense struggled in the 2nd half to keep from tripping on its own laces.

The frustration is that this is an offense that performed much better last year. The WRs have been called out since we lost 3 key contributors from last year, but everyone else is back.

by coonhound on Nov 8, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

uh...

minus 2 olineman with what? over 30 starts a piece?

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

well

I guess, 1 olineman this game…but still those guys are not 100 percent.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The oline

was incredibly healthy last year compared to this year. They were dinged up and bruised, some had to get surgery, but they were able to practice and play as a unit far more than this year.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I wish my wife

was that perceptive about football!

by EricNole on Nov 8, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Man

I just can’t understand why the DB’s kept getting burned over and over…I thought I was watching last year’s defense. The PA’s were not even good IMO….I know the DB’s can’t watch EVERYTHING…but Yate’s drop backs and fakes to the RB were totally different on PA’s compared to when he was handing the ball to them…I would like to see if there was a pattern in the PA(what down/distance they used them most)…BUD if you read this…maybe you can touch on it in another post if you plan on dissecting this game more…

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by Kelvin Hunt on Nov 8, 2010 10:11 AM EST reply actions  

I wanted to vomit watching the

secondary get beat like that. I thought it was bad watching NC State nickel and dime down the field. I was wrong. This was so much worse. Flashbacks of last year. Give me the “make them execute down the field” defense any day over this past Saturday’s “2nd and 15, 60 yard TD bomb” defense.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

For a minute, I thought I saw 22 chasing a UNC receiver down the field.

by coonhound on Nov 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

LMAO!

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by Kelvin Hunt on Nov 8, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

my personal favorite

was watching Greg Reid stop running after a receiver that went uncontested into the endzone and just throw his arms up and look around. Was it his fault? Maybe, maybe not. But it pretty much summed up the defense for the night.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

you did

he just switched his number to 5

by nbj08 on Nov 8, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

JUST A FEW COMMENTS

1st on the penalties being called and not being called. I do think we get hosed a lot, but back in the 90s we were won of the penalized teams in the entire league. We were good then and able to overcme them, were not now. IN short I think a lot of flags are being th rown because of our past history. We are def. being out coached in second half. OUR recivers can’t catch their a## with both hands. Greig Reied got burned over and over.Our kick return blockin sucks, the only thing G5 is good at is returning kicks, and ther are at least 3 defenders in his face on every KO return. A friend and I watched this game as the D bit on PA over and over. Neither of us are coaches but we kept saying don’t bite their not gonna run. My piont being if two drunk knuckleheads like us can see it why can’t the coaching staff. And finnaly this team just has a lot to work on and hopefully they will get it straightend out. GO NOLES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by jskipnole on Nov 8, 2010 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

ONE MORE THING

I havent seen it that much on this post,but the 4th qt. thread alot of people were all over Ponder again. I watched the replay on sun and the announcers were talking about how terrible his arm looked with the wrap off . Ponder has more heart than anyone on the field,he constantly sacrafices his body to make a play, and I think people need to give him a break.

by jskipnole on Nov 8, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

KEEP FORGETTEN

Wasn’t G5 the one running his mouth berore the Miami game. I beleive he said something to the effect " I want to get challenged deep I’m getting bored" We’ll I wonder if he is still bored?

by jskipnole on Nov 8, 2010 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

sure about that? I'm not.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

yes watched it twice already. Moody twice, Parks once and Gregg once(his is the questionable of them)

On Greggs it looks like we are using a cover 2 with corners? Perhaps that was a risk to get both safties underneath? Or perhaps it was cover 3 and Parks whould have been between the hashes instead of running up on the underneath route? Not sure either way.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I know one of them

receivers ran a crossing route and Reid took the wrong guy. Wound up with two guys on the underneath and no one up top.

Again, this is from my ‘seeing red, what the hell is happening to the defense’ seat in the stands. Could be wrong.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this is the one I was talking about above...the first one?

Couldn’t see if Greg stopped or turned the guy loose in the middle cause he thought there was help…

If it’s the one with Parks and Reid late that was on Parks…QB rolls Parks bites underneath to try a pick and gets burned…almost caught the guy from behind though.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

He was also resposible for the first play of the game

1 on 1 and just got handled.

"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"

by freshcollegeboy on Nov 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

that was before the NC State game.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

his mouth never stops going so, yeah.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Everyone should take things in perspective.

A. We’re miles ahead of where we were last year. Yes we need some depth on D and some upgrades at reciever, but we’re well on our way to turning things around.

2. We still have a solid chance at the division. Argue all you want…nothings garunteed, but NC will have a great chance to down NC State, and We wil be almost expected to win the next two.

D. It hurts more because we lost these two when we easily could/should be 8-1 at the moment, but think of it this way in the first year when we are expected to get 8 or 9 wins, we had a serious chance to get 10 or 11 wins, that’s major progress…and fast!

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

right now

the difference to me for the defense is it can stop bad teams with bad QBs. Good QBs have destroyed this defense. That is actually a lot of progress from last year…

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Far fetched idea, but...

two plays away from 8-1 and 6-0 in conference play. By my guess, that would put us in the top 10, but alas it is what it is. Maybe even a 1 loss team that they are talking about an outside chance at the NC. Whoah! Still keeping the faith! Couldn’t agree with you more.

by RockoNole954 on Nov 8, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not far fetched at all.

Inspite of all of our issues we are one fumble and one fied goal away from 8-1 6-0

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Ponder

Three touchdown passes for 274 yards and no interceptions? If receivers could actually catch the ball he would have had close to 400 yards like Yates.

These receivers were the best Fisher could entice to come here after BB had torched the program. It is what it is. Haulstead looks to be coming along and there are some good young ones coming up the line. Green and Shaw should do well. Shaw will need to grow stronger, he weighs 170 pounds. (Green is a five star receiver) Nobody is going to waster a year with him throwing him out there not knowing the plays however.

Stample, Mitchell and Carter will help solve some of the defensive problems. Getting the jacobs guy back from junior college wouldn’t hurt either.

One barrel that is problem all around college football. Yates threw for 412 yards on LSU. They are supposed to have this might defense also.

We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher

by DocHoliday2 on Nov 8, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

One barrel that is problem all around college football. Yates threw for 412 yards on LSU. They are supposed to have this might defense also.

Solid point…however, they were down 30-10 at half….and they threw 46 passes……only passed 35 times against FSU…

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by Kelvin Hunt on Nov 8, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the Review Bud

Sometimes when I talk to my friends who are FSU fans, I feel like we’ve been watching different games. I came away from this game thinking that we lost mainly because: our DBs repeatedly let UNC’s receivers get behind them (behind all of them that is); because our receivers dropped too many critical passes; and because we had too many offensive penalties. It’s hard watching on TV to see much of the defensive backfield play, especially without rewinding a few times, so I can’t really say where the breakdowns occurred. Similarly it’s hard to tell much about most of the penalty calls. But those were definitely the big three in my mind and it’s reassuring to see that you had more or less the same reaction, though I know that your view of the game is more nuanced than mine.

Meanwhile, I thought Ponder looked very good on the whole, but my friends all think he was off. I’m not saying he was perfect, but I would take that performance from a quarterback any time and expect to win.

Of course if Hopkins makes the kick at the end then we escape anyway, but as you say, we were lucky to be in a position to win at the end anyway.

The other difference with some of my friends is that my feeling after the game was not as negative. I was very frustrated with our breakdowns, but I thought going in that this game was pretty close to a tossup anyway (the spread seemed completely insane).

Looking forward, I’ll be very happy if we only lose only one more game this year, but I think two is more likely and three, though unlikely, wouldn’t be a big surprise. I’m not happy about the idea of losing two or more, but I think that’s just where we are right now.

On the flip side, I feel very good about where FSU is going. I’m pretty confident that we’ll be better next year, and very confident about 2012 and beyond. Meanwhile I’ll keep watching with interest and hoping for the best. Ten months into the “Jimbo Fisher era”, that’s good enough for me.

by csfuu on Nov 8, 2010 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed. I would also add that we knew at the start

that our defensive interior line was young and with no depth. That makes fourth quarters more exiciting thatn we would prefer. Our safties are young and learning the system. 8-4. That is what I was surprised to learn was that my prediction, after using the percentage system used by TN. However, to my continued surprise, that appears to be a representation of my actual expectation. We were 6-6 last year regular season, Even if we wind up 7-5 it is an improvement, although an dissapointing one. Next year, improvement must be not just in process but in a substantial improvement in the empirical measurement of WINS. But this year I will be satisified with a small improvement in wins coupled with an improvement in recruiting results and the incorporeal area of “process”.

by cp75 on Nov 8, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Patience

I wasn’t as aware of the d-line stuff while watching the game, but Bud would obviously agree with you on that.

About next year, I’m not going to be too upset or surprised if we still don’t win a lot, as long as we don’t look stupid doing it. Jimbo’s first recruiting class will be sophomores and redshirt freshmen, and I don’t think that it’s fair to expect a lot in terms of wins and losses until we are further along than that.

What I do expect is improvement in the way that we play. But even for that we need to recognize that improvement will likely come in increments separated by plateaus where there is very little change and maybe even a little regression.

by csfuu on Nov 8, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't get to see the first 3 quarters, so I have some general questions

- What was our base coverage/personnel used?
- Did Dawkins play at all?
- Were we just completely gassed along the DL to allow that white boy 4th stringer RB to gash us on their last drive?

FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.

by ricobert1 on Nov 8, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

Everett did play

I remember seeing him in there, but remember seeing more of Amp…

by Pinto on Nov 8, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

you're right the DL was gassed in the 4th

I saw hicks in and he didn’t look good and they left him in…

I think that incoming DL depth plus the current first 5 -6 getting experience will give us a tremendous increase again next year.

"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock

by truecolors on Nov 8, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

On the upside...

…I think we can put the whole “Are we going to lose Stoops after this year????” worries to rest….

Anything more on Ty Jones? I know it was a coach’s decision but do we know anything further that that? I’m guessing one of two things happened (maybe), and one I would have a problem with…

#1. they told him he messed up on that fumble and he got pissed and dogged it in practice all week, or

  1. they put him in the doghouse b/c of the fumble and that’s it…he did fine otherwise

If its #1, I’m OK with it. If its #2, I have a problem with that…I hope its #1 but I don’t…would be disappointed in Ty if that was the case, but it sounds like something a college kid would do. But if its #2 I’m disappointed in Jimbo and feel its unacceptable to do that given the situation…

by Pinto on Nov 8, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

Ok, which one is point #2?

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Nov 8, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry...

No.1: they told him he messed up on that fumble and he got pissed and dogged it in practice all week, or

No.2: they put him in the doghouse b/c of the fumble and that’s it…he did fine otherwise

by Pinto on Nov 8, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

doubt they benched him because of the fumble.

more than likely he went on a sugar/booze binge. Could be wrong.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

blended

into a refreshing Rum shake.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ty Had an awful week of practice

and clearly showed that he was not ready to play in the game. Have this on solid authority.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

He really needs to step up.

He’s the most exciting back I’ve seen for FSU since Greg Jones was trucking people downfield every play. He has speed, size, strength, and vision. The offense looks different with him in the game, and I want him in there as much as possible.

by tuckwell on Nov 8, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve really had it with this routine from the running backs and to a lesser extent their coach(es). All of our backs have now been counted on to contribute for at least 2 seasons, and seemingly every week we’ve still got one not showing up to play.

I know habits aren’t broken overnight but honestly, even during the lost decade (when players were barely coached AT ALL) effort was less of an issue than it is now.

by 38Noles on Nov 8, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not in the know at all

but I’m guessing Ty got REALLY down on himself and probably did some stupid things. That might not even mean eating unhealthy or getting wasted or whatever. It might have been just letting it mess up his mental part of the game, over thinking stuff. Who knows.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case, and it’s kind of understandable. The real problem for me is that it’s always something every week.

Jermaine doesn’t run hard, or Jones doesn’t control his diet, or Thompson can’t hold onto the football. It’s ridiculous. The starting spot/bulk of the carries on a pretty high profile college football team is very much up for grabs, how about one of you plays like you want it?

by 38Noles on Nov 8, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that happens

when you have 3 ‘good’ to ‘better than average’ backs. No one is THE guy. I will say ball security has been tremendous though this year.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

C'mon Wilder and Freeman

With those two, in a couple years we’ll have two “great” to "amazing’ backs and won’t need either one to be THE guy :-)

by tuckwell on Nov 8, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

what about

both of the being THE GUY!

chew on that! haha.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 8, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Chris showed up and played well

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 8, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Best take on the Ref's

“The holding/illegal block penalties make we want to go on "safari" to Africa and kill thousands of zebras indiscriminately, letting their corpses rot in the sun 19th-century British colonial style.”

+1

by JMac2474 on Nov 8, 2010 2:41 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks

Did anyone ever read “King Soloman’s Mines” as a kid? It’s a pretty good adventure story along the lines of Treasure Island. Anyway there’s a scene in there where the British adventurers have a jolly good time killing everything that moves on 4 legs for fun; I kept thinking of that when I saw those damn refs reaching for their flags.

by EricNole on Nov 8, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The ref actually looked pained when he announced the penalty that gave us the ball at the 1 yard line

Bothered me when I watched the broadcast this morning.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Nov 8, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The Tradition Continues.....

I do need to explain that my earlier comments were intended to be 100% sarcastic…..I witnessed all the hand-wringing and I got caught up in the flavor of the weak.

Like I said after the OU game….this is another case where bad habits prove to be hard to eradicate….a little surprised that the kicking game has gotten into it now.

As for the Mudra comment by someone about Bowden’s first season an comparing that to Jimbo…that’s an insulting comparison….Mudra totally sucked. Coach Bowden was a case of running on empty after years of running full throttle….all the years Coach Bobby kicked the snot out of everybody count for something, Mudra never beat much of anybody….0-11 anyone?

by SeminoleDan80 on Nov 8, 2010 8:18 PM EST reply actions  

Flavor of the Weak

I don’t know if you typo’d that or not, but I prefer to think not. That’s subtle brilliance right there.

by tuckwell on Nov 8, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

HA

I hoped it was sarcasm. Glad to see it was. I’ll take apart the cross now and put the nails back in the closet.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Nov 9, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

No prep b4 final fg attempt by Hopkins.

After we scored to go ahead with 5 min. left and until the missed fg attempt I watched the sidelline the entire time and dustin never hit one warmup into net….not one…it was a cool night and temp was dropping….why wasnt a coach on top of that? he has to be told? cmon thats common sense….

by salinboca on Nov 10, 2010 5:57 AM EST reply actions  

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