Explaining the WR issues, in short
There has been much ado about the WR's clear struggles lately, so I decided to lift and expound upon my comment from a previous thread to attempt to iron out the issue. It's not time for Reed or Easterling to leave the team, it's time for them to be put in a position to succeed, which is the same thing Bud and others rightly criticized the previous defensive staff for not doing. Doing that requires a few things to change, primarily one thing...
We don’t have it. We have 2 Jr. receivers that are complimentary guys, not primary receivers. Reed is a good speed/slot guy, and he dropped something like 3 passes all year last year because he wasn’t relied on to be that guy. He also finished the season a close 2nd in receptions and yards, so he has talent. Easterling is a possession receiver, but he only gets open when he isn’t getting all the attention of the secondary. And he's tough and apparently country strong, as I watch him drag defenders downfield.
Bottom line with these 2, you can’t run a passing game with only Wes Welkers on the field, but if you have a legitimate big guy, your Welker will lead the team in receptions and sometimes yards. See Welker's sudden increase in productivity when he went from Miami to NE, where there were other legitimate receivers around him. All of a sudden, the middle of the field opens up for those crossing routes, and your QB now has 2 short options, slot WR and TE. That's how you open up a defense, but it doesn't work without quality big men to stretch the field.
As for the Soph’s: Haulstead didn’t earn his way onto the field, but he is improving. Unfortunately, every time I watch him I think Fortson, i.e. big plays but big drops and wasted potential. He does seem to show marked improvement from the beginning of the season, so that is encouraging. Smith, on the other hand, is just not worth the time he gets right now, but he gets it because there isn’t much other choice. I don’t know that he will ever get there at this point.
So why aren’t the Soph’s playing as well as we had hoped? PT on the cheap. Nobody is legitimately in front of them to force them to improve. Our freshmen aren’t seeing much time because they are being forced to improve before they do, which will pay dividends in the future. But until that point, the Jr’s are going to look worse than they are because we have to ask too much of them, and the Soph’s will only improve at their own pace, no matter the coach, because there’s nobody they have to compete with for PT.
Like Fisher said in today's press conference, if you throw some guys into the fire too soon, you will ruin them. We want to build for the future, and in the meantime, you use the same process that you would normally use to gain success. It will happen, but it doesn't happen when you panic and hedge your bets on freshmen that haven't yet earned that spot. We know Fisher is more than willing to play the younger, more talented player (see Ponder over Weatherford) if he shows promise and can handle the PT and the pressure that comes with it. It's all about risk/reward. Just be patient, you will see plenty of Dent and Shaw next year, and if Reed keeps dropping passes at this clip, they will see a lot of time this year too.
Step away from the cliff, jumpers, and stop focusing on results. The future is bright at WR, but it is still that at this point... the future.
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this is my first fanpost
so bring on the comments! thanks fellas, and smile… there’s a process at work, and it happens very quickly
good stuff
I like the emphasis that we can’t put the young guys into the fire too early, or we ruin them.
I see what your saying, but in this case I think it depends on the reciever.
Maybe some could handle it and as you say, some could be ruined by too much. Some may thrive on it, but who knows better than the coaches, I guess.
I think part of this is scheme related...they are asked to to A LOT of blocking as well as adjustable routes
It’s not as easy to just put them out there in this offense. I like that they are forcing them to learn it first.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
It is easy on defense?
Just asking, cause we’re playing a lot of freshmen on D. Doesn’t appear there’s a “young guys in the fire too early” thing there.
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
But I don't think
there are any upper classmen to put in over the fresh and sophs on defense. They HAVE to play.
Insightful comment
methinks you may be on to something.
Very lucid intelligent post
I think you are spot on. Fortson would ahve made sucha difference this year it’s unreal. Wish we could ahve kept him but I understand it all.
I completely agree!!!!
I’ve been thinking about this the entire season. I think the coaches are taking Reed out of what he does best (slot), that’s were he was most successful last year. To many time this year I’ve seen Reed running the deep route down the field as I’m thinking to myself that’s not would he does. I understand why the coaches are doing it because we don’t have anyone else, but he would be much more affective if next year we can get him in the same role we had him in last year.
Insightful Alternative POV
I like this take on the WR situation. Thanks for the new look at this problem.
Come on Bobby
If you don’t have anything nice to say sometimes it’s better to just go fishing or something…
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
You are not getting the job Terry
We are "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented." says Fisher.
The process is real, make no mistake, it gets stronger and stronger day by day, it is unstoppable! "Get used to it, get used to winning"....Jimbo Fisher
so is the 1,000 ton elephant in the room the fact that if fortson wasn't such an incredible knucklehead
that our wr problems might basically be resolved, or at least lessened by a large degree?
not exactly
i think it would take 2 big time receivers, so now that haulstead seems to be doing better, the wr problems would have been lessened now, but we would still have struggled up until this point. a big threat is great to have, but if he cant be relied upon to run correct routes and catch the easy ones, you need a go-to guy on the other side when he struggles. so we would be better, assuming his off-field problems werent there, but not as prolific.
if you want a guy in the slot, that means you need 2 other receivers that are bigger and stronger than he is; fortson would make 1, and owens was the other last year. easterling just isnt playing like owens did last year, and i dont know that he ever will. the occasional big game seems to be his ceiling, not consistency. owens’ reliability made him a qb’s favorite target.
I think it would only take 1
If this was the case: that 1 stud WR would require safety help over the top on most plays, which would open things up underneath for your Welker-type (Reed) – since an LB would be on him in a base defense (who he can beat 1-1 everytime) or he could sit in a pocket of an underneath zone. Once this is effective enough, the opposing defensive coordinator might roll coverage to that side; the other side of the field would be 1-1. I think that even a not so “big-time” receiver should be able to get open in that situation (Easterling). Now if the defense keeps coming out in a nickel to counter our 3-wide set, we just stuff it down their throats like we can.
I know my arugment is very oversimplified but I really think just 1 big time guy would do the trick.
Absolutely true. Lessened by a large degree.
If Fortson wasn’t a knucklehead there wouldn’t have been enough off the field problems to get him dismissed. By the same token, if he’s not a knucklehead he would’ve been capable/willing to do what the coaches asked/expected of him thus making him more reliable and a huge threat that opposing D’s would have to account for. Put Haul opposite Fortson the Reliable and Bert in the slot and everything is different.
FSU: 8-4 or bust
Just think of the upperclass receivers we have lost.
Parker, Surrency, Fortson…
I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it.
-Garrison Keillor
Interesting take...
So Smith and/or Haulstead are potentially struggling, or even ruined in the worst case scenario, by being given playing time by necessity, not because they earned it and had proven themselves ready for the role.
Simply throwing Shaw and/or Dent into the mix because of Smith/Haulstead’s sub-par play now would be essentially doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING, with potentially the same career-stunting results. By giving them playing time they didn’t actually earn or have to compete for.
That’s the best argument yet I’ve seen for why Shaw/Dent aren’t bigger factors. No sense in f—king up four receivers’ development because you had to f—- up two receivers’ development. Make Shaw and Dent go through the same process they would have to go through if Smith/Haulstead were performing well…
In other words, make Shaw and Dent prove they are ready by the coaching staff’s standards, not just because they couldn’t be any worse than the two underacheiving incumbents.
That makes a lot of sense IF you buy into Fisher’s comments that you can ruin players by putting them out there before their ready.
I don’t know if you have to agree, but at least it makes sense.
Haulstead is improving.
I don’t think you can say the playing time is ruining Haulstead. Right now, Haulstead is our best WR but I agree with the OP Reed and Easterling are being asked to do something they simply aren’t capable of. If you are reading tea leaves it puts Gehres and Wade on the outside looking in.
Personally, I still think you’ll see improvement in Smith by the bowl game. PT if handled the right way, can really help a guy development.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
i dont think PT has ruined Haulstead, but it may be a little soon to judge either way
he still has a case of the drops, and his catches arent that solid either. hopefully that will improve. he has responded well, we were just forced to deal with his growing pains for the first half of the season when he should have been an off the bench, situational player. some guys can handle being thrown in the fire, some cant, but its never ideal because you cant really tell until they get out there, and 4 catches between the 2 of them is not enough time to know.
as far as Gehres and Wade, you dont need tea leaves to get that situation. gehres was a 2 star for a reason: stick ‘em hands (dude could catch BJ Daniels’ awful stuff – look at his arm now) but marginal speed and shake. we know why gothellaswag Wade got a spot: he was Jeffy’s jump-ball target of the future. but at least Gehres is a decent special teams player…
Also, if that's true then maybe there's a parallel with the quarterback problems we faced
in the Rix through Weatherford years. In that time we frequently put replacements in who had failed to win the job from Rix/Weatherford, but got the start simply because they couldn’t have been any worse.
In my mind at least, Sexton, McPherson, or Lee never earned their way onto the field by their play. In fact, Rix didn’t earn his way onto the field with his play either, basically becoming the default starter with the dismissal of Jared Jones, the injury to Boldin and the failure of Fabian Walker to get in the first time. So with the exception of Weatherford beating out Xavier Lee after Rix’s graduation, you basically had a string of seven years or so in which your starting quarterbacks never particularly showed themselves ready to play nor competed and won the job.
That all ended up proving that we had a serious coaching problem at the position.
Hopefully we are avoiding just throwing receivers in willy nilly trying to find someone that magically works, and are forcing them to go through the appropriate process and development. And hopefully that will show that we don’t have the same coaching issues now at receiver that we had at quarterback back then.
Poor comparison due to the lack of adequate QB Coaching at the time.
By all accounts Dawsey is a pretty good WR coach. If you look at Easterling and Reed, they are slot guys. While the offense requires WR to make reads which is tough for a 1st or 2nd year player to do. I really like the way Haulstead looks and Smith was as raw as possible coming in so his development is going to take longer.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Poor comparison NOW
but you haven’t been paying attention if you don’t hear people questioning Dawsey.
I’m giving Dawsey the benefit of the doubt and more. I don’t think one group (Smith/Haulstead) is enough to condemn him.
But if you don’t have improvement and the next group STILL can’t unseat them, then you may have an issue.
But my basic thought is that it is reminicent of the QB comparison, but with better coaching we should see this play out differently (not throwing Dent/Shaw out there “just to see what they can do”)
Are you saying Dawsey is as bad of a coach as Daryll Dickey?
Both Goodman and Owens have been on NFL clubs this year. Either guy was headed in remotely that direction prior to Dawsey arriving here. Dickey can’t get a job in Div 1. If we fired Dawsey he would get a job tomorrow.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
plus Dawsey did a good job at USF, so he does have a somewhat of a good track record even before he got here
Dickey on the other hand…I don’t think anybody not named Bowden thought that was a good idea.
D'Vontrey Richardson
All this talk about WR’s and QB’s made me wonder what ever happened to D’Vontrey Richardson? I remember him making some big plays at QB as a sph, then he seemed to just disappear. Not suggesting we need him at QB, but he was surely a big play threat. Maybe could have become a WR. Anyway still wondering what happened to him.
He's a bonus baby now
Did you ever even play the game? I guarantee I can coach my Little League team to beat yours 10 times out of 10.
by Caveman Mafia on Nov 10, 2010 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Playing in the minors for the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers
2010 Season
Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
WIS MID .243 132 522 78 127 28 8 7 51 192 58 164 17 15 .331 .368 .699
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Whoa. 51 HRs and 192 RBIs.
Aren’t those Gehrig’s numbers from ’27? :-)
"Some people call it swagger, we call it preparation." - Vic Viloria
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 12, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Fortson had drops last year
He was not always reliable himself. Easterling and Reed were more reliable. Owens and Goodman were three star recruits, from the old regime, under the old conditioning…yet they were good enough to take attention off Reed and Easterling apparently. Why can’t Reed and Easterling now in turn take heat off Halstead and Smith? I do not recall Owens and Goodman being that fast or big, just running routes well and getting down in the zones. Easterling and Reed also did that last year. Could each successive week of disappointment be driving them to try harder and harder each week, and thus leading to mistakes?
During the spring and summer, there was a lot of talk about Smith's ability to run the deep routes
but, I’ve only seen him catch one deep ball this year – last week, on the hitch and go.
Easterling was open down field on the fumble in the NCST game but there just haven’t been many balls thrown deep this year. Maybe its Ponder’s arm being busted up since the OK game, maybe its the route running but, for whatever reason, we are not stretching the field and when we have many of Ponder’s throws have been woefully under thrown.
Ponder just isn’t scaring anyone this year on the deep throws.
I feel more like I do now, than I did before
by HaveNoleOption on Nov 10, 2010 11:59 AM EST reply actions
He had a good vertical pass to Reed this past game
Even though Reed did not keep his feet in bounds, the pass was good and I think more of that would help stretch defenses out.
I think Ponder tends to take the underneath more if its there. Plus teams have been taking away the deep stuf most of the time.
How many smash routes did Willie catch last week? at least 4… most of them the Saftey was WAY behind him meaning, “you can have that route” almost every time if you break it off.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
A team effort
Who is the Threat on offence. CP7, this year we built everyone as equels other than Ponder. Thats fine for me but hes hurt. I thought EJ would be this great QB and he might be but at the same time it seems its not getting it yet. I dont think it has to be a big threat outside but just a big threat all together. If we had a outside guy like carr or Surrncey the last 2 years or the RB catching more out the backfield, anything to take focus off easterling and Reed. Another think is didnt we move them this year to other positions as WR. Well what would happen if we moved them back. Not saying we dont need them there but that I think we could make push more of the fight for your positions. Make them earn it again.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

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