'Nole Your Opponent: Talking South Carolina With Garnet & Black Attack
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 11:22 AM EST
in FSU Football
Email
PrintIt's time to get back to talking serious football. The Florida State Seminoles take on the South Carolina Gamecocks in the Chick-Fil-A Bowl (the Peach) this Friday night. To find out more about the USCe, we turn to Garnet And Black Attack, SBN's excellent South Carolina site. Our questions appear in bold, their answers in grey. And please do head on over to check out our answers to their questions.
1. What has made the biggest difference in the South Carolina offense this year? Switch to the spread? Lattimore? New oline coach? Garcia?
All of the factors you mentioned have played a role in our improvement. I'd say the biggest factor, though, has been Lattimore. Like all great running backs, Lattimore is the kind of player who makes everyone else look better, the guy that makes a decent offense a very good or great one. The o-line has improved, but Lattimore makes it look better than it is by consistently running for three or four more yards than the average back would get. Similarly, having a reliable running game has made a world of difference for the formerly hit-or-miss Garcia. Last year, Garcia had to make the offense go, and he often wasn't up to manning that burden. This year, though, he's been much more efficient in a game-manager role, with Lattimore as the first threat. Lattimore was a program-changing commitment when he signed with Carolina.
2. USCe lost a lot of size in its front seven this year. How much of the secondary struggles are due to the Gamecocks overcompensating to stop the run with additional men.
Carolina has transitioned to playing smaller DTs and LBs this year, but I wouldn't very much attribute the secondary problems to that transition. First of all, while we've been somewhat more aggressive in run defense this year, we've generally been able to rely on the front seven to take care of business in the trenches. Second of all, most of the pass-defense miscues have been due either to scheme (running soft zone coverage against teams that nickel-and-dimed us to death) or player error (blown coverages, etc.). You can somewhat attribute the coverage schemes to over-reliance on run blitzes, but the player errors are mainly a function of depth problems. We have a very shallow rotation in the secondary, particularly at safety, and that's led to problems with fatigue late in games. That's where the secondary really suffers.
3. What are the injury concerns for South Carolina?
OL Garrett Chisholm is questionable with a knee. He practiced today but may have aggravated his injury. Chisholm is one of our best OL and has been a major part of the emergence of the Gamecocks' running game this season, so he'll be missed, particularly as we don't have great depth on the line. Other than that, we're pretty good. Garcia was banged up going into the SECCG, but I'm assuming he's all healed up now.
4. How have the Gamecocks compensated for the loss of Weslye Saunders? Who threatens the middle of the field in the passing game?
As you probably know, the Gamecocks played with one of the country's largest receiving corps this season. That's given us some TE-like options from the receiver spots, and Tori Gurley especially has been a reliable target over the middle of the field. Justice Cunningham and Patrick DiMarco replaced Saunders at TE, and while neither has been a featured receiver, both are reliable. They're also both better blockers than Saunders, and in that sense not having Saunders has benefited our running game.
A sincere Tomahawk Nation thank you to Garnet & Black Attack for their insightful answers. Please do head on over to check out our answers to their questions.
175 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Carolina seems pretty confident
God I hope we do not loose to them. Would be a terrible birthday present.
by NOLEisticscience on Dec 29, 2010 11:54 AM EST via mobile reply actions
They have clearly been the better team to date.
FSU can pull it off it things go its way.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Same thing I thought
I just dont like the matchup of their huge receivers over Joyner and Reid
I think the Rhodes/Jeffery matchup will be fun to watch
"The Process" Making sweet love to your mama since 2010.
by WinstonSalemNole on Dec 29, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree they
Have had a better year and look pretty dangerous.
by NOLEisticscience on Dec 29, 2010 12:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As in not having a pick six in the 1Q
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
That would help
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
i like our coaches
and their ability to prepare our team after this long layoff. i think we’ll have a good game plan and it will really help having Ponder out there seeing things offensively. defensively, the rest our front 4 got should help a good deal. doesn’t mean i’m confident we win, but i like our chances much more.
Good luck, guys. May the best team win.
I’d say the mood in Columbia is cautiously confident. We’ve probably had a slightly better year than FSU, but I see the teams as fairly evenly matched and believe FSU can and will win if it gets some breaks and / or Carolina fails to shore up its pass defense somehow. Should be a good game.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog By and For Gamecocks Fans.
I really think the long break will help or Dline
And those guys being rested up will give us a better chance to win this game imo
"The Process" Making sweet love to your mama since 2010.
by WinstonSalemNole on Dec 29, 2010 12:11 PM EST reply actions
D Line
Hopefuly the rest will prove to be a deciding factor. I feel like that will be a major factor in us winning. Disrupt Garcia and make him use his brain,then Stoops can use some of the schemes he’s been wanting to use but just couldn’t because the D Line has been banged up.
by NOLEisticscience on Dec 29, 2010 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lattimore will also get rest
With 250 carries, he needed it as well.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
A Freshman RB in the SEC w/ 250 carries...
Just shakin’ my head at that one. Unbelieveable.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
i would be suprised if Lattimore doesn't end up washing out due to injury. great kid, but they way they have been using him i think is making him peak too early.
i think if we can bottle Lattimore up (i know easier said then done), we can force Garcia into making bad decisions…then on offense exploit their secondary, but do it by sucking them in with run and then hitting them with play action. especially since they have been more “run defense” minded.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
i mean wash out over his career and not this game, and I meant to type "but *the* way they..."
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Guard I believe
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm confused by this statement to the last question on G&B Attack:
On offense, whichever outside receiver (Willie Haulstead or Rodney Smith) does not draw Gilmore in coverage will need to have a big day, particularly if Ponder does not play
Why the change if Ponder doesn ’t play?
Because Ponder is a better passer than EJ and EJ chucks it up 2-3 times a game needing his wideout to go get it.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Who do you think looked better as a sophmore - Ponder or EJ?
my vote is EJ – but he is going to need a miracle to be better as a Junior
My thoughts exactly.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
he will need a miracle to do what ponder did but EJ's game is different in the aspect i think he might be able to make a serious impact with his legs as well as the backfield he is going to have (given that our RB's live up to their potential)
especially if Wilder and Freeman make an impact first thing.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
I think the perception will be that EJ looks as good as Ponder, partially because he’ll probably have more rushing yards, and because we have Ponder’s senior year fresh in our minds, instead of his junior year when we had the experienced wideouts
I am one who thinks Ponder played well this year
when you go back and watch the games, a lot of the “not the same as last year” wasn’t his fault. He made smart plays, always seemed to call an audible vs the right d and never openly bashed his teammates when the majority of his “not the same as last year” wasn’t his fault. I am bias, I have thought this kid was special since he took over at Va tech, so I could be wrong. But this kid, to me, is one of the best QBs we have ever had.
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
better team
I would also agree but remember EJ is on a better team as a Soph than what Ponder had to deal with as a Soph.
by NOLEisticscience on Dec 29, 2010 4:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
It might also be different because EJ will not (hopefully) have no defense and need to score a million points in order to stay competitive.
remember ponder scored 35 points in a half and still lost
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
Ponder scored 35 in a half?
He must’ve gotten hot from behind the arc.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 30, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
sorry he lead the offense to 35 points, passed to himself, handed the ball off
to him self and kicked the xp
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
I've never understood this reasoning
Do we think EJ won’t try to put up as many points as he can? Regardless of if he has a D or not? The only difference I see between having a good D and a bad D is trying to keep the ball more and killing play clock. I don’t see what that has to do with scoring or stats of the QB. Except maybe a team with no D will try to run the ball more to kill the clock.
I am by no means a football expert though.
I think it has more to do with ability and surrounding talent
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Miracle to be as good as a junior? Do you mean because he wasn't the starter his entire soph. year, like Ponder was?
He should be every bit as good as Ponder, but in different ways, when he gets close to the same amount of experience. He’s starting out with more ability and has the same coach.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
EJ will have a better D as a Junior than Ponder had as a Junior
as a result EJ won’t (need to) put up as good #s as Ponder had.
Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....
Uh, okay. I agree, even though it has nothing to do with the comment you replied to.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Dr. I agree.
Give EJ wideouts that are good and dependable like Goodman and Owens and what a year he will have. I have to say if you look at how he played against VT his soph year and Ponder did….I would give it to EJ. 288 and at least one dropped td to go with his almost perfect (all things considered) outing.
Nothing taken from an excellent Ponder, but EJ has done equally well if not better and is not the full time starter and gets less snaps as a soph.
EJ has much better players around him now then Christian had a Soph
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
I hope Stoops/Hud have a good idea on how SCAR uses DiMarco
Kid seems to be clutch when they need him.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Great read.
I think this will be an exciting game, and with some breaks I think we can win it. I am looking forward to watching Rhodes and Jeffrey match up with each other.
I think one team
beats the other soundly. A couple of breaks for (against) either team, a std better (worse) than statistically expected on 3rd down to a solid victory (loss). I wouldn’t tease the game for sure (actually you should never play teasers).
Stoops
Personally, I think Stoops’ ability to coach (and he had a month) will be tested in this game. He needs to show us that he can adjust to balanced offenses. I’m sorry, I am not too impressed with him as of yet. Can I say that?
I hope you are being sarcastic
I’m sorry, I am not too impressed with him as of yet. Can I say that?
But if you are not, that should be a reason to get banned. LOL
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of the death." - Nick Saban
He did make FSU's defense FORTY spots better
FSU’s defense will probably get lit up here. It’s a decent defense, which is all anyone could expect for this year.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
seriously, especially once JF and staff have had a chance to recruit more zone scheme type DB's and LB's. i think next season will be Stoops's proving ground.
anyone know Coach Hudson’s defensive preference? (4/3, 3/4,zone, man?) just wondering since he seems the most logical to take stoops place when Stoops “gets the offer he can’t refuse”.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
4-3
multiple like Mark
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Plus, isn't the biggest improvement generally from year 1 to 2, rather than from year 0 to year 1?
Excited to think about the secondary getting more comfortable with the zones and reading rather than reacting
Biggest improvement in quality I would think not number of spots.
Jumping from 48 to top 15 would be a much better improvement (quality wise) than jumping from 80’s to 40’s. Just my opinion.
yeah, it's like losing weight
The first pounds drop off because their easier to loose (ie water weight), after that, you REALLY have to work for it. So the more dramatic numerical change was probably this year.
Have you watched our Defense in the past few years
Stoops changed a mind set of blitz 7 and go on an island with the rest, in less then one year. That is really impressive. We ran more complicated schemes, coverages and blitzes then we have ever run at this university. We didn’t get beat by Va Tech b/c we were out coached, we got beat b/c their QB resembled Mike Vick. Remember what vick did to our defense in the NC game, made them look like a jv and TT did the same. Go and watch that game over and you will be less mad with our D and more impressed with how well TT played. Yes, we struggled during the year, but we had Reid, Harris, Rhodes and Joyner at dbs and only one of them played db at the D1 level and that was only as a nickel back.
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
What were your expectations heading into the season?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
14 of these by the end of the season?
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of the death." - Nick Saban
Haha, nice find. Hadn't it been awhile since our last shutout?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Exactly,our defense has been just what we expected.
Call me crazy but I think we can keep Lattimore under 100 yards.
I really dont think we’ll have an answer for Jeffery.
Fat chicks need love too.........but they gotta pay - Capt. Glen Quagmire
Trust
Our D is light years better. I also think that Stoops dosnt have full confidence in everyone on D yet to do the things he really wants to do. To execute his type D you have to be a smart football player who can think and recognise things and I don’t think we have ALL those players yet,,,,,,,but they are getting there for sure. So I would say Stoops has been impressive with what he has on hand. Is that a fair statement?
by NOLEisticscience on Dec 29, 2010 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Coach stoops can't coach size.
Probably what the Noles are missing the most. If the d line averaged 10-15 more they would be more stout on the run for sure and blow more passing plays up. Stoops has done very well, and it only looks better next year with some depth and size.
really doesn't trust the safeties
and doesn’t have enough confidence in second team dline to rotate players fully. Games we lost or played poorly in our dline wore slap out late in the game.
Exactly
Most of these guys were also on last years defense. Stoops has had to coach his ass off to get them to where they are.
Florida State 45 Miami 17
Florida State 31 Florida 7
State Champions
ACC Atlantic Division Champions
by SeminoleMike on Dec 30, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
That will depend entirely on the healthy of the DTs
Will Dawkins’ hand be healed up?
Has McDaniels’ hyperextended elbow be stable?
Will McAllister’s ankle be a 100%
If we are still banged up at DT it’s a tough road to keep Lattimore under 100.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Will they be 100%? Who knows/cares. They should be much healthier than 3-4 weeks ago though.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
This should be a fun game for Noles fans.
This is all for fun— no pressure, nothing to prove, not expected to win. When we start playing for championships, then it gets nervewracking.
proud graduate of the Uncle Rico Quarterback Camp
Damn the expectations. If we lose, IT WON'T BE FUN.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I’ll let y’all in on a little secret about South Carolina…
Stop Lattimore and you stop South Carolina. Make Garcia beat you. It’s simple.
Oh and their defense is very good.
The Once and Future King
Thanks for the helpful tips.
Here’s one for your gators:
Hire a coaching staff.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Haha. I know right.
The new name now is VanGorder. And Quinn was hired. And no…sadly…not the Eskimo.
The Once and Future King
As for beating USCe. I'll go even simpler (in a true Holtzesque manner)
Have more heart, try harder and score more points…..you’ll win every time (well, at least 60% of the time).
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Don't be suprised when Muschamp hires Davis from UT.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
I dunno.
I’m not sure it’ll matter too much if Lattimore gets stopped early on. With FSU’s sack numbers, I suspect Spurrier will call a lot of short passes, which can be a form of running game itself. Lattimore may get it going later in the game, once the defensive line wears down a little.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Dec 29, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sack numbers are definitely misleading
Played a lot of poor QBs early on
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
paper tiger
absolutely. it looks great on eliot’s and stoops’ resumes, but it’s remarkably unimportant. for those of us that lived through the dynasty, the discrepancy between this d-line and those beastly lines is enormous.
As it should be these guys are almost all under classmen, in the ninties they wouldn't have played yet.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
I agree the number is pretty misleading but,
don’t a lot of teams play poor teams and QBs early?
by Blake Davis on Dec 30, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Clearly that's where you would start
Of course, if I’m Spurrier, I’m gonna come out throwin’
Florida State 45 Miami 17
Florida State 31 Florida 7
State Champions
ACC Atlantic Division Champions
by SeminoleMike on Dec 30, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Control The Line And Contain Lattimore
and that’s very doable given their o-line depth/injuries. I’m surprised at some of the negativity here. I won’t get into a debate about talent levels here but I will tell you that FSU will come into this game with superior conditioning and preparation. We pull away late in the 3rd…winning 33-20.
Their o-line has one injury. FSU is in much worse shape. Carolina is an SEC team and their guys are jacked. Don’t really see the superior conditioning or perparation. Excellent staff over there for SC
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bud…Lord knows you have much more expertise here but it’s just a very strong hunch on my part…and you know Las Vegas was built on hunches. Do I have the G & G goggles on? absolutely…I try not to take them off. I also think Garcia is a load and prone to bad decisions under pressure. We shall see what we shall see.
Garcia is a floridian and floridians have always done well vs FSU in the past
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
wow - thats a tough one to argue against
‘garcia is likely to have a good game b/c bj daniels played well against us last year’
did the farmers almanac hook you up?
Except Spurrier has a tendency to be hard headed and traditionally doesn't prepare for Bowl Games.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
This is a must win game
This is for a ten win season, win over Spurrier and best of all a share of the SEC easter division. Plus you remind gators of this all year long. Fisher wins ten first year, wins ACC Atlantic, beats UF, UM and Spur.
Not only this I predicted a ten win season most likely during regular season (wrong there) but surely with bowl win.
It will also help going into spring and fall practice attitude wise. It might help recruiting this year.
Beware of the pedant, the man in the ivory tower, who cannot be trusted any more than the rabble of the streets. Too long cloistered in the halls of academe, the first are dangerous, for they fail to understand the world, and know not reality. The second are like a mindless storm, roaring and insatiable, full of rage, and a self righteous and acquisitive passion....... Cicero
Must win?
C’mon, this is the Chic Fil A bowl, what happens if we win this game and lose to OU next season. or vice versa. The recruits, the change in philosophy and approach is the difference. This is a big game, but playing Spurrier is overrated, especially since he never beat us in Doak. I think beating Urbie this year says more the beating a guy we had the upper hand with, though SC is better then the gaytors. Big game yes, how we play makes a dif, but must win, I doubt it
I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR
by NaplesNole on Dec 30, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
is it wrong that
that is the first thing i thought when i saw the bowl pairing?
This is a must win game
No. It isn’t. It’s a meaningless bowl game that could potentially influence 3-4 ranking spots in 2011. Which, if we TCOB, will be completely irrelevant.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
I can't agree...
Bowls are extra money, extra exposure for fans that have drifted away duriing the lost decade, and more team practice over having no bowl. A win to close the season is both good momentum for the next year and it certainly can’t hurt recruiting. Finally, beating Spurrier, whether at USC or UF, matters more than I want to admit.
Prediction: FSU 33 – USC 30, on a 45+ yard field goal in the last 2 minutes
GeoNole94
"He who hesitates, meditates in the horizontal position" Ed Parker
There is nothing like a win.
I like the attitude of must win. I know that this is not for a number of reasons but on the flip side….everyone loves a team that wins!
As an example I can show you isles of extra gaytor gear left in stores over the Christmas season. FSU gear on the other hand….sold out, even in Georgia from what I am told.
Go Noles!
Good God, I hope we win. If I have to hear, sec-sec-sec rant, during the game, I’m gonna blow up the first chicken coup I find.
by Carryingaspearorrunningfromit on Dec 30, 2010 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
i couldn't disagree with you more.
to have a win to close the season against one of the top teams in the SEC that is coached by Spurrier and is at it’s peak as a program…nothing could be a better statement for our program and it is a shot across the bow for all those who think this season is a flash in the pan.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody who thinks this season was a flash in the pan
isn’t worth giving the time of day, much less any statement.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 29, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
ill give you that, but i still think it's more than 'just a stupid meaningless bowl game"
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
The momentum and spark will come from the recruiting class
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
winning breeds winning however, and nothing recruits better than winning.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Don't expect this game to have any effect on recruiting either way
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
you never know when that next 5 star recruit sitting at home in SC gives more thought to FSU because he sees USCe's limitations and Clemson's soon to be perpetual inferiority.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
uh huh...
Do you realize how far fetched that is?
This is not must-win. FSU has met their goals for the year. We will not lose any recruits if we lose the bowl game, nor will we gain any.
If it’s must-win for YOU personally due to some stupid Spurrier obsession that has nothing to do with Jimbo, then that’s fine. But there are literally no concrete ramifications from losing to SCAR. None.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
take a deep breath. its going to be ok, and I was saying that mostly in jest, and to be honest I started following FSU when I was 13 when I moved to FL that was in 97 do the math... I didnt see spurrier a whole lot as and FSU fan...
and of course there are no concrete ramifications…but what the heck do you play for if it isn’t to win…i don’t know about you but every win you have means you have one less loss. I am a fan and alum of FSU and want to see it prosper in everything it does.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
with you smoothe
i think the problem is that the last several years of mediocrity have infiltrated the ranks of fans; it was evident that way too many noles on here and elsewhere thought that this was an objectively good season, and just relieved to be in a new era; hope that sentiment stays away from the locker room
and i know i’ve mentioned here before the sick feeling i had leaving bank of america stadium feeling betrayed by jimbo and company for playing not to lose;
great question: “what the heck do you play for if it isn’t to win”
sheesh, i never played a game of anything in my life that wasn’t a must win
"If St. George would have killed a dragonfly instead of a dragon, who would have remembered him?" - Fredric March, Inherit the Wind
How did thy play not to lose?
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 29, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Bud
I ranted on another thread, sarcastically, and in poor form, about that; buuuut
i loved how we came out throwing the ball and moving the chains, like we did in the gator bowl; we actually went downfield a lot more against va tech, and again, i loved it; it just seemed that, after it was obvious that we couldnt stop them on D, that we didn’t try to light it up enough; played a little too conservatively; and i don’t want to get started on how the coaching staff ended the first half; yeah, yeah, didn’t want a turnover, lots of things could go wrong, whatever; you look at teams across the country that consistently win big games, and they generally go all out, try to score points with every opportunity;
hope you weren’t counting on stats and in depth analysis, just a reaction to what i saw from the nosebleeds
"If St. George would have killed a dragonfly instead of a dragon, who would have remembered him?" - Fredric March, Inherit the Wind
Don’t think they believed going there gave FSU the best chance to win.
Or
Did they not want to get embarrassed and crush the kid’s confidence?
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
yeah believe me I live in charlotte and went to the game as well, i just remember when we dominated and when 80,000 filled doak to watch them play (fill in any mediocre ACC team of the late 90's)
and to me at least we went out there and stomped a mud hole and walked it dry…and it made an impact on me and i realized that they came to play no matter who they were playing or where they were playing and I respected that..this stuff about games that matter and games that don’t matter. of course there are obvious games that “don’t matter”…like playing some FBS school for homecoming…but to say that the game against a very good team (2nd best in SEC) in the peach bowl isn’t something you really are wanting is ludicrous. I’m not saying it is going to make or break the program but to say this is a non-factor game is silly. these are the same people that said the ACC champ game “didn’t matter”…seriously…when was the last time we were in the acc championship game? 2006? i’m sorry but in the acc that is unacceptable, and we had people say ’ it doesn’t matter…sounds like some bush league crap to me..
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is an incredibly misguided statement.
Passionate, but misguided.
by seminoles44 on Dec 30, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
and your response was enlightening.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Well fortunately...
sounds like some bush league crap to me..
I understand my own fandom (and don’t feel the need to spout off about it).
We’re not as important as you think we are. It’s the Peach Bowl. A battle of two teams who will be fighting for nothing more than a possible top 15 2011 preseason ranking.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
if you take the logic you are using to assess the importance of a game the majority of games we play, standing on their own, don't mean anything, that mentality will lead to mediocrity. every game means something and is worth playing to win.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
We are fans
our mentality really doesn’t mean anything. Whether or not we are jacked up to win the game, or we expect to win the game will have zero effect on the players will to win the game. Playing to win, and being a must win game are two entirely different schools of thought. A must win game would be something that directly and tangibly affected FSU’s chances at a conference championship, or hindered its recruiting, or avoiding a loss to a clearly inferior team. USCe is none of these things, hence it is not a must win game. Next year’s preseason ranking, or a mythical 10 wins isn’t going to change anything about fan’s expectations of JImbo, nor will it hurt his ability to coach and recruit. Whether we start the season ranked 20, or ranked 10, Jimbo will be judged on whether there is a tangible improvement in year 2 and year 3.
by seminoles44 on Dec 30, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Well said.
I had something similar typed up, but I like your style.
Also, we have a top 3 recruiting class in the country on the way. Stoops turned around the defense from 2010 better than we expected. We have an experienced QB coming in as a starter in 2011. We have an overall culture change at FSU that is fueling our development/momentum
We certainly do not “have to win this game”. It changes nothing but the perceptions of people who are well…meaningless (as far as their impact on the program)
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Dec 30, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Except of course
That fans are what give a home field any “advantage” (neutral sites can turn into “home games”). Excited, jacked-up fans can lead to excited, jacked-up crowds – which can lead to false starts, the inability to audible effectively, wasted time outs, etc.
I think passionate fans are attributes. They may not always make significant impacts on team performances, but they can be a factor.
I do agree that this is not a “must win” (esp. as you describe it), but I also agree with Smooth that all wins are good.
Certainly.
Fans can definitely make a difference as a 12th man and passionate fans are always a good thing. And I’m sure almost every one on this blog is an incredibly passionate fan that act like idiots on game day (in a good way) to help influence the game. My only problem is when passion turns to stupidity and you start to blame coaches and players for not living up to unreal expectations and being disappointed for not going 13-0 every year.
by seminoles44 on Dec 31, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with that
Unrealistic expectations can be harmful. That’s one reason I never budged from my position of being satisfied with 8-4, very happy with anything else – even after our 6-1 start!
Now, of course, I’d really like that 10th win…
So, what are your thoughts for next year? I think 9-10 will be my expectation. I think we’re highly likely to beat six opponents (ULM, CS, Duke, WF, and prob Mary and UVA), so even going .500 for the other six = nine wins. OU, uf, maybe UM or a surprising BC/Clem/NCSt team should be our biggest challenges, right? I don’t think we lose all of those, plus we should make a bowl and perhaps the ACCCG, giving us 13-14 games. So, 9+ is doable.
I suppose for next year, barring weird injuries/etc., eight is my minimal requirement (less and I’ll wonder what’s wrong), nine is my expectation (based on this year and expected general improvement, schedule), and 10+ is my gravy.
So can you kindly explain the benefits of a win?
Other than a couple of spots in the 2011 rankings?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Seriously?
First, it would be not-a-loss. Glance at our potential records, and what looks (much) more impressive: 9-5 or 10-4? A 10-win season would be huge for Jimbo’s first year – and for the first year post-Bowden. It’s that magical number always reached during the dynasty (granted, teams play more games now).
It might be a factor in recruiting, though not a big one at this point. We’d sell more merchandise, probably a few more season tickets and reclaim a few more boosters with the extra icing of a bowl win – not to mention that Bowden was long considered a bowl god, so it’d be good to start Jimbo off right (removing yet another potential area for continued grumbling).
It’d provide great momentum for the off-season (much more so than a 2-game slide at the end), with another wave hitting on NSD. Higher preseason rankings, as you said. Heck, we’d end the season ranked, and that’s an accomplishment (hovering around 23, we’d probably drop out with another loss).
It would help our national reputation, which for 10 years now has been “win a couple, look good… then start losing again.” People on these boards have talked about national commentators who are “once bitten, twice shy” with us now – so often they’ve thought we’re back, only to be proven wrong. Another loss turns a great season (in anyone’s eyes) to a somewhat mediocre one (by traditional FSU standards). 9-5 isn’t sexy, but 10-4 gets people looking.
It’d send Ponder, Hudson, etc. off in the right way. It’d have FSU beating the SEC #2, helping our goal to be seen as an “SEC-type” program.
I’m rambling… It’s certainly not a must-win game, and it wouldn’t magically turn our program around all by itself (though it would be another step in that direction)… but I’d hardly slough off the importance of ANY win.
by Invictus13 on Dec 30, 2010 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
So after all that
You’re agreeing with me?
It’s certainly not a must-win game
Should I be flattered?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
it wouldn’t magically turn our program around all by itself (though it would be another step in that direction)… but I’d hardly slough off the importance of ANY win.
i think you needed to read the rest of his sentence.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
On the "must win" part, yes
But not on the part where you indicate that a win does nothing for the program except for perhaps a slightly better preseason ranking.
So you can be “flat” perhaps, but I wouldn’t go all the way to “flattered.” ;)
They are all must wins.
I would like to eliminate all losses if possible. It won’t affect this recruiting class and it wont affect a pretty good season but I like winning at anything over losing. I get pumped when womans soccer wins. I like seeing FSU in the win column all the time.
by pb4957 on Dec 29, 2010 9:51 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
amen, I just posted that a second ago...it seems as people get uptight when you want FSU to win a "meaningless" bowl game..these are the same people that would piss and moan if we were in a lesser bowl playing an inferior opponent...
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 29, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
I guess we are all just "Homers"
By there logic the only bowl games that matter are the one’s that are for National Championships.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 29, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
This game means a lot to the 2010 FSU team
10 win season, etc.
But to the program the outcome of this game is really not that important… not nearly a must win game. I’d be okay with saying that we ‘need’ to play well in this game, but not that we need to win.
by BenDNole on Dec 29, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is just Football. No game is really a must win.
But this game seems as important as just about any. Of all the things that don’t mean anything F.S.U Football is the most important.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 29, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
In no way does this game affect the program going forward
That is why people say this game doesn’t mean much. We are playing a team from a different conference and a different geographic region. They have had a better season than us this year so if we lose it’s not like we blew a game to a team that was unworthy. Basically it’s okay to be a fan and know your limitations. We are more likely than not going to lose this game. Saying that doesn’t make me not a fan. Saying this game has 0 effect on the program also doesn’t affect my fandom. As currently constructed we lack the athletes to be better than 50% to win this kind of game. That is all. It’s just realism.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 30, 2010 12:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
"different geographic region" What map are you looking at?
We are not favored to win which is why a win would be so good for the program. What bowl game besides the National Championship would have any meaning to you, or the program in you opinion.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 30, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, both are the southeast
But I simply mean, as far as college football is concerned, where the south is king to the point where Alabama and Georgia might as well have a wall between them, a state that is located several states over is not really a concern. I don’t give SCar fans a thought because they typically aren’t around me. I’m sure many of them would say the same. There isn’t a whole lot of cross over. I also meant to point out that we don’t recruit a lot of the same players.
Way to take one thing out of my point and respond and leave the rest twisting in the wind though.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
A BCS Bowl game would have meaning to me.
A Bowl game against a team we were better than that we could be expected to win. Perhaps a game against a team that we were heads-up against for a particular recruit (that we both had a legitimate shot at, Clowneyite). But at the end of the day bowls really are mostly meaningless. They are an opportunity to make money for sponsors and TV. They give us extra practice time and they are a reward to the players. But for the most part they mean nothing.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Didn't need to respond to the rest of your comment, DocHoliday2 did a good enough job. No need to beat a dead horse.
I am pretty sure we do recruit some of the same recruits as U.S.Ce. I also would add that if we win while F.S.U will feast on some chicken at the “Chick-fil-a Bowl” you will get served a heapin helping of crow. But since it’s a “mostly meaningless” game I guess you wont be watching it. So at around midnight log on to TN and find out who won.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 30, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
You really don't get it.
It is not that we don’t care about the game, and won’t be rooting and watching every second of the game, we just realize that the game really has no tangible effect on our program going forward. Saying that an FSU fan is going to “eat crow” when his favorite football team whens a game over what is likely a superior opponent, is just really, really dumb. We all want FSU to win, we are commenting on an FSU blog, we obviously care. In summary, you don’t really understand the argument, just because some people realize the game is not incredibly important doesn’t mean they don’t root for FSU as hard as the next guy.
by seminoles44 on Dec 30, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look I can't continue with this ridiculous argument for another day.
But in defense of being “really,really dumb” he said the game was “mostly meaningless”. How do you care if you think something is “mostly meaningless”? As I have said before it is just a game, so you can only put so much value on it to begin with. We obviously disagree about what a win would mean to this program. I never said anyone on this site wanted F.S.U to lose. In fact if you read further down I say exactly the opposite. If anything I said came off otherwise I am sorry. But it still sounds to me and apparently to others on this site that others on this site give us no, or very little chance to win and they don’t very much care one way or the other. Thats just how it’s coming off. I will still defer to DocHoliday2’s post a few posts down. He makes my point better than I can.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 31, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
Be sure and stop by the locker room before the game
Tell the players they are all jacked up for nothing, this is just a silly meaningless game. You would be lucky if they didn’t stuff a rag in your mouth tie you up and leave you in the broom closet.
Beware of the pedant, the man in the ivory tower, who cannot be trusted any more than the rabble of the streets. Too long cloistered in the halls of academe, the first are dangerous, for they fail to understand the world, and know not reality. The second are like a mindless storm, roaring and insatiable, full of rage, and a self righteous and acquisitive passion....... Cicero
by DocHoliday2 on Dec 30, 2010 12:28 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I'm agreeing with Doc?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
I understand what you are saying and am sure Jimbo has slept in the office this week.
For Jimbo and the players, it’s a must win and they will leave it all out on the field.
From a objective perspective, we’ll be fine whether we win or lose.
FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon
Moreover
Some of this commentary is bordering on the ludicrous. In fact FSU had a well known streak of winning ten games a year for some 14 years. Now that may or may not be relevant to some. I suppose you could it doesn’t matter to start one this year you could wait until next year or possibly it doesn’t matter if you ever start another run to some.
It is all relevant, I suppose you could say it is silly or meaningless if FSU beats Clemson, UF, UNC or Virginia Tech. To some it matters I suppose, especially the coaches and players. They probably have this personal “obsession” with it. LOL
Now for some of us when we discuss football, there is just a better feeling when you can say team X won the bowl game against team Y. That is just the way it is, personal “obsession” or not.
Winning this game will affect rankings at the beginning of next season. There is no argument on that. I prefer to see the team ranked as high as it can be. That is just a personal “obsession” I suppose. I have been working under the model that it is better to be ranked as high as you can as long as you are going to play the games.
Now it is not a life or death matter in the cosmic scheme of things and maybe football is not either. Some would say football in general is silly and meaningless. It is all a matter of perspective, which includes personal viewpoint, logic 101 and common sense.
Those who represent an ideal beyond the comprehension of the masses must face the persecution of the unthinking multitude who are without the divine idealism which inspires progress and those rational faculties which unerringly sift truth from falsehood." -Manly Palmer Hall
All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values. …Nietzsche
Come to the center of the earth, and there you shall find the Philosopher’s Stone – Basilius Valentinus (Fifteenth Century Alchemist)
Beware of the pedant, the man in the ivory tower, who cannot be trusted any more than the rabble of the streets. Too long cloistered in the halls of academe, the first are dangerous, for they fail to understand the world, and know not reality. The second are like a mindless storm, roaring and insatiable, full of rage, and a self righteous and acquisitive passion....... Cicero
Doc's bustin' out some Nietzsche!
Love it!
Florida State 45 Miami 17
Florida State 31 Florida 7
State Champions
ACC Atlantic Division Champions
by SeminoleMike on Dec 30, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
must win
“must win” is defined as the one you lose!
The position we want is to not have to explain why we lost, we don’t want our players, coaches, recruits or fan having to explain why we lost. We win the negativity goes away.
I personally can’t stand to lose to Spurrier, he is also building a team in SC and they are making recruiting inroads that we need to stop. We used to get some really good recruits out of South Carolina, this game may not change anything this year, but the future years it will affect recruiting.
Losing is like a pebble starting rolling down the hill and becomes an avalanche. Win and the momemtum is good for you, your program, your players, your fans and it continues to BUILD.
Winning may not be everything, but it beats anything else.
by rspknole1 on Dec 30, 2010 7:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
respknole1- Very well said.
I believe we have a good chance to win this game, and if or when we do it will be a very good, quality win. A win that will make all F.S.U fans proud of our team and coaching staff for giving us it. One thing I do know for sure about this team is no matter what happens in this game they will play hard till the last whistle. Can’t say that about most teams, or people. They are Game, and play with class. Those things alone give us so much about our program to be proud of. This team plays like it’s motto is something my father used to say “When ahead never let up. When behind never give up.”
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 30, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Building a program in SC, you say?
As a resident of Columbia, SC, I can safely tell you this is the first year in the Spurrier tenure at USCe that the fan base has ended the regular season and NOT called for his firing. Is this team significantly more talented than his others at USCe? Doubtful. How can a coach be considered to be building a program if he has barely survived from year to year and the overall talent level is about the same as any USCe team has generally ever been?
Our recruiting in SC has not fallen off because of Spurrier or Dabo or Tommy B (when he was here). Our recruiting in SC fell off because we stopped winning, just like it fell off in Cali, TX, NC, and everywhere else.
by michaeljsweeneyjr on Dec 30, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad I got some back up, I was beginning to think I had lost my marbles for wanting FSU to win this Game.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 8:58 AM EST reply actions
We want to win too
We’ve just bought into Jimbo’s process oriented thinking. I’m much much more worried about how we play than the final outcome. If we lose 38-37 on a last second FG, I’m not going to be pissed because this is a “must win.” I’d be heartbroken no doubt…. but process > results
Who said they didn't want to win?
We all want to win (I wonder about your reading comprehension). We, however, DON’T all think that this game is a MUST win.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Every single one of us here wants to win the game
We just don’t make statements like it’s a “must-win”, which implies that it is vital to the future of our program. It isn’t. Recruiting class won’t change because of it. Off-season preparation won’t change because of it. It’d be great to win, and we’re certainly hoping to.
>>---l>
For what it's worth I got your back SmoothCrimiNole.
I will say that I don’t think anyone on this site wants F.S.U to lose. Although there will be a sense of Schadenfreude from some if we do. I just don’t see how some think this game is almost unwinnable, but the fact that they do is why it would be such a great win. That would give us great momentum going into next year, and NSD.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 30, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'd actually say Process = Future positive results than Process > Results...
Because if we don’t get to the eventual desired results the process is just talk.
I think that is what Stilts is saying as well, and I agree, to an extent, I know this is JF's first year, however as we all know there is no guarantee how long fisher will be here, we need to win every game we can,
I’m not going to be pissed but I expect to win.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
If we lose a close game then I am still happy with a +2 result in the W column this season
And look forward to what should be an 11-1 or even 12-0 regular season in 2011 and bigger and better things from there. So as I type I realize this game has some meaning for the preseason rankings, and with a chance to be in BCS CG contention in 2011 it would suck to be lower than some others and end up the odd man out if 3 teams go undefeated.
Who is Kelvin Benjamin's leader??
My warchant sub expired and I will not renew. This website much better
by Therealnate80 on Dec 30, 2010 9:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
hasn't changed
Been FSU for a month now
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I would be very surprised if Benjamin did not choose FSU
Jimbo Fisher always looking for that big receiver, a quarterback who can actually pass the ball and currently FSU the number on team in the state. It should be an easy choice for him.
It appeared the earlier mix up centered around personal definitions of exactly what “must win” means on an individual basis.
Education has produced a population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading……..Claiborne Pell
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without excepting it………..Aristotle
Beware of the pedant, the man in the ivory tower, who cannot be trusted any more than the rabble of the streets. Too long cloistered in the halls of academe, the first are dangerous, for they fail to understand the world, and know not reality. The second are like a mindless storm, roaring and insatiable, full of rage, and a self righteous and acquisitive passion....... Cicero
I agree about KB just wanted to make sure
He would be crazy to go anywhere. Just a lot of bullcrap rumors flyin around. I totally believe Bud
by Therealnate80 on Dec 30, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Doc just put that same Aristotle quote on my Facebook site yesterday.
I guess great minds think alike, or maybe us.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 30, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Ironic that you used the “excepting” instead of “accepting” in a quote describing the “mark[s] of an educated mind.”
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
Touche or Tooshay I didn't catch that. Not sure of the spelling on that one. But I did get the quote's spelling on my F.B Page right.
I have to admit, spelling is not my strong suit, I will definitely not be an editor of any kind.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 31, 2010 4:12 AM EST up reply actions
Preview is up
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Winning would garantee ushering a new dynasty
My hubby went to FSU (I went to CMU) but until my son went to FSU I have never paid attention to football. I am now a rabid fan! I was at the UF/FSU game and now understand why my husband is such a fan. What fun! Goosebumps, etc. Go Noles tomorrow!!
Congrats on your newfound passion
I’m glad you joined the Noles once you came around to college football!
Winning would be HUGE.
I agree with others that it’s not necessary, but by god do I want to win badly.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
by tricknole on Dec 31, 2010 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Me too, Trick.
Once the game starts i don’t give a damn about next year, NSD, the program, or anything else. Just F’n win!
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 31, 2010 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yes Sir
I myself will be cooking some chicken for dinner tonight. I hope I don’t choke on it though. Haven’t made up my mind how I’m going to prepare it. I am open to suggestions.
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Dec 31, 2010 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
Can't go wrong with Southern Fried.
"I rize tuhday tuh grajulate my unabursitee uh flawduh gaytuh on da hirin uh dey nu corch urvin muskatramp....go gaytuh" - excerpts from the Congressional archives.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 31, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanShots on Tomahawk Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SHOP THE TOMAHAWK NATION STORE
