Tough Shooting Night For Florida State in 77-67 Loss To Clemson Tigers
by TrueCubbie on Feb 11, 2010 1:05 PM EST
in FSU Basketball
38 comments
In their third game in six days, the Seminoles traveled to Clemson, South Carolina last night to play a tough Clemson team. In the early goings, it was a battle of the defenses, with neither team shooting well. Unfortunately, the shooting woes continued for the Seminoles who only shot 38% from the floor as a team. While this would have been a great game for the Seminoles to win, it wasn't a must win. In fact, many penciled this in as a loss before the season started.
Clemson went on a 9-0 run to start the game as the Seminoles struggled to get their shots to fall. It wasn't as if the Seminoles were getting bad looks at the basket either. Shot after shot rattled around the rim only to fall into the hands of the Tigers who were quick to move the ball up court. The Seminoles then went on their own 8-1 run to get back into the game half way through the first half. When the Seminoles showed signs of life on the offensive end, the threes started to fall for the Tigers and then it was a matter of playing catch up for the rest of the game.
The four factors chart and game flow tell the story of this game:
The Seminoles could and should have won this game had it not been for a poor shooting night. The inflated free throw rate for the Tigers is a result of persistent fouling in the last minutes of the game by the Seminoles.
Luke Loucks, coming off the bench, led the Seminoles with 15 points and six assists. Solomon Alabi scored 14 points and went eight for nine from the free throw line. However, the big man fouled out of the game. In fact, in the first half of the game, there were more fouls called than baskets made. Seminoles fans should be happy with the way the Noles broke the press for most of the game and the 20% TO% against a team that normally forces opponents into a turnover on 25% of their possessions.
Michael Snaer made his second straight start and scored 10 points in 25 minutes of game play. Snaer could have easily had more points, but he could not get anything to fall early in the game. There was also a very interesting moment in which Snaer missed a tough lay up in transition and was immediately yanked from the game and chastised by Leonard Hamilton, much to the confusion of Seminoles fans. Give Snaer the credit for hustling down the court and being in position to score. Snaer was playing well defensively and it is still perplexing as to why he was pulled.
Clemson had four players in double digits and shot 40% from beyond the arc and 76% from the free throw line, both very uncharacteristic stats. Potter and Young went a combined 7 for 12 from beyond the arc and helped the Tigers pull away from the Seminoles.
Now, the Seminoles get a few days rest as they return home to play Boston College on Sunday. Here are the current ACC standings from Ken Pomeroy. Keep in mind the Seminoles hold the edge over Georgia Tech and must now win their second game against Clemson.
| Team | Overall | Conf | Proj | Pomeroy | AdjO | AdjD | AdjT | Next Game | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Duke | 20-4 | 8-2 | 13-3 | .9794 | 2 | 122.7 | 1 | 87.7 | 15 | 67.6 | 180 | Sat, vs 10 Maryland | (W, 79-70, 81%) |
| Maryland | 16-6 | 6-2 | 11-5 | .9548 | 10 | 115.5 | 16 | 88.6 | 23 | 71.1 | 35 | Sat, at 2 Duke | (L, 79-70, 19%) |
| Wake Forest | 17-5 | 7-3 | 10-6 | .9081 | 36 | 107.5 | 81 | 88.1 | 18 | 71.0 | 39 | Sat, vs 25 Georgia Tech | (W, 71-69, 62%) |
| Virginia Tech | 19-4 | 6-3 | 10-6 | .9203 | 24 | 105.9 | 106 | 85.6 | 4 | 67.9 | 165 | Sat, vs 51 Virginia | (W, 64-58, 76%) |
| Virginia | 14-7 | 5-3 | 8-8 | .8768 | 51 | 111.2 | 42 | 93.8 | 71 | 62.9 | 319 | Sat, at 24 Virginia Tech | (L, 64-58, 24%) |
| Clemson | 17-7 | 5-5 | 8-8 | .9270 | 19 | 107.2 | 84 | 86.0 | 5 | 70.0 | 74 | Sat, vs 57 Miami FL | (W, 71-63, 80%) |
| Georgia Tech | 17-7 | 5-5 | 8-8 | .9202 | 25 | 108.5 | 71 | 87.7 | 14 | 70.7 | 52 | Sat, at 36 Wake Forest | (L, 71-69, 38%) |
| Florida St. | 17-7 | 5-5 | 9-7 | .9183 | 26 | 106.4 | 95 | 86.2 | 6 | 68.7 | 128 | Sun, vs 68 Boston College | (W, 71-62, 81%) |
| Miami FL | 17-7 | 3-7 | 6-10 | .8600 | 57 | 110.1 | 54 | 94.0 | 76 | 66.9 | 214 | Sat, at 19 Clemson | (L, 71-63, 20%) |
| Boston College | 12-12 | 3-7 | 5-11 | .8366 | 68 | 111.9 | 38 | 97.1 | 107 | 65.8 | 254 | Sun, at 26 Florida St. | (L, 71-62, 19%) |
| North Carolina | 13-11 | 2-7 | 5-11 | .8460 | 62 | 108.5 | 70 | 93.6 | 66 | 73.2 | 13 | Sat, vs 81 North Carolina St. | (W, 77-71, 73%) |
| North Carolina St. | 14-11 | 2-8 | 4-12 | .7964 | 81 | 108.6 | 69 | 96.4 | 101 | 66.5 | 229 | Sat, at 62 North Carolina | (L, 77-71, 27%) |
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Snaer was chastised for not being in the proper lane on the break
He went down the middle of the lane forcing the action too close to the ballhandler (Singleton?) instead of flaring in from the left. Had he run the break properly Singleton would either have had a one-on-one to the rim, or they would have doubled and Snaer would have gone in uncontested.
Agreed that it was a teaching moment and I'm glad that Hamilton subbed him right back in. But, to me, there were bigger fish to fry than that last night.
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Agree
But the level of Ham’s reaction made me think it’s something they’ve been working him hard about.
One of the few times that we have really seen Hamilton fired up this year, at least on camera. Maybe it is happening more often than the camera is capturing.
Hopefully, it’s because he realizes the potential that Snaer has and that a smooth running machine of Singleton and Snaer will be a tough tandem to handle next year.
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Guys keep struggling to find their roles.
we play like a team full of third options.
6-22 from 3PT Range
What…The…Farts
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 11, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions
To quote another
This team is just painful to watch right now. Player development is just agonizingly slow. A man once told me to build the foundation one brick at a time. He then qualified that with you have 30 days. I know it takes time for a team to jell and find out how all the parts fit together but after almost 6 months together and lord knows how man practice hours that the product that’s put on the floor at game time right now is as expected & acceptable? I get the graduation rate and being better than we were in years past kind of thinking but I for one think it’s entirely appropriate to feel a sense of frustration at this point in the season.
by 30yearnole on Feb 11, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
FSU basketball doesn't deserve TC's amazing coverage.
It is a shame that our best writer happens to be a fan of a team that is so incredibly frustrating.
by MattDNole on Feb 11, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Wife and I watched the game and were amazed at how bad we looked. Cold shooting and free throws, poor offensive rebounding, and had a hard time with their pressure. This late in the season one would think they would have it figured out.
I thought we handled their pressure pretty well, all things considered.
Clemson forces teams into turnover rates of 25%+. Couple that with our turnover issues and I was looking for us to be over 30.
Agreed
I must have low expectations for us bc I was amazed that we continuously broke the press.
Outside of missing some good looks in the first half (hard luck I guess), what I saw the remainder of each posession after getting up court was gar-bage.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 11, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I was happy with how we broke the press, but it could still be better.
Too often are we quick to pick up the dribble in the back court and not push up the court when we have the opportunity.
Compared to the beginning of the year, it’s a million times betters, so we should be happy with that.
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We've progressed from unable to break the press
to now breaking it, but we haven’t got to the point where we’re making teams pay for pressing us, so there’s no incentive not to do it.
my question is...
why the hell dont we press more ourselves?? we could create more turnovers and get easy baskets. we have the altheticism to do it…
Ham has never pressed a bunch
his defensive philosophy is to shut down the lane and disrupt half court sets. The reason we’re so effective at it is because we’re a one-trick pony – the kids practice it ad nauseum. More variety would be nice, but it would have to come at the expense of a lesser half-court D.
Considering the results on the defensive end it’s hard to argue with him.
id argue that considering the results on the offensive end id have to disagree
we need to create points and we need to create shots. we need to switch it up more often. its his job to find a way to put the ball int he basket. pressing will create more turnovers and hopefully a couple more points. status quo isnt cutting it in my opinion. our current defense relies on forcing opposing teams to take low percentage shots and get the rebound.
then what??
disagree with Ham that is...not you.
i know what his tendencies are i just want him to adapt a little
Exactly.
He wants to wear you down in the half court game, frustrate the hell out of you to making mistakes and force you to play at the Seminole’s pace and style of game.
Some variation and change of pace would be nice. Less predictable. Like a pitcher changing the cadence of his wind up when a base stealer is on first.
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What is wrong
With Singleton? He throw the ball away multiple times last night on inboud plays. His head just looked out of it.
by nolejam9 on Feb 11, 2010 2:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He's definitely a fan favorite, but it's as if he doesn't know his role.
He can’t shoot from 3 pt land and he’s a horrendous FT shooter. If he could simply improve his FT shooting, and have better shot selection, he’d arguably be our best player.
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
The FT shooting needs to improve, particularly if he can continue to be aggressive going to the basket, which is where I think he is most effective.
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Completely agree. Agressive to the basket.
His height and athleticism are huge advantages on most other SF. Why not use that? Improve his FT, and we have a top ACC scorer.
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
I'm sick of watching this team on TV with (non-FSU) friends...
and feeling like I have to say things like:
“FSU is the only team I watch that makes the basket look 6 in. smaller and 6 in. higher than the other team’s.”
“FSU must have covered their hands with Crisco instead of chalk before the game.”
I know it’s a bit much, but it really is kinda embarassing to support this team and then have other people watch them play like this
I always tell my friends before I watch a game with them
While I’m a patient and pragmatic football fan, I am a terrible FSU basketball fan. It gets pretty tiresome for them when I’m pointing out all the obvious things that the team does wrong over and over. Good times…
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 11, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
The frustration has to lie with Hamilton and his staff...
yes players play the game but when you have the raw talent and altheticism that we have, its the coaches job to develop it and it simply does not happen. perfect example, when singleton starts chucking threes and camping out on the three point line its the coaches job to yank him immediately. thats not his game and he needs to learn that somehow.
i still think we need to force the tempo. we obviously dont have the coaching staff to install a competent half court offense so lets run. lets play tough pressing defense and just push it. who cares if we turn it over….this isnt anything new. quick outlet passes to the guards and go. why not full court/half cour/ 3 quarter court press like i said above?
two questions on two players for everyone to discuss….what the hell has happened to derwin kitchen? his play has slowly regressed since his arrival in Tallahassee. It has come to a point where he is passing up wide open shots because he has zero confidence in his shot. he is wayyy to hesitant on all of his entry passes to the post.
and lastly where is xavier gibson?
Kitch was an enigma coming into the year
Lots of talent, but I think your eyes were fooling and he was able to succeed with minimal risk playing next to TD last year (ala EJ Manuel under Jimbo). Coming in to this year, the jury was out on whether he would dribble all day, chuck it up too early, or be the point gaurd and leader of the team. I’d say he’s actually come around to developing into a scoring-point, much like TD was early in his career. I feel much safer with Kitch now than earlier in the year.
As for Xavier, he’s still lost (maybe lacks basketball IQ?) but I thought he improved quite a bit in last night’s game. I’d say jury’s still out on him, but his learning curve is going to get much steeper now that Demercy’s gone.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 11, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Gibson has a very high ceiling and he should get there with time.
If you simply look at his numbers, he has doubled everything in every statistical category. He’s playing twice as many minutes, getting twice as many points, rebounds, blocks etc… What I would like to see out of Gibson is consistent focus during the game. He really could be a match up nightmare, but the game hasn’t slowed down enough for him yet, meaning he rushes things at times. He has the ability to play facing the basket 10-15 feet out and put the ball on the floor or he can bang with the bigs in the low post. He’ll get there.
We all have to keep in mind that we’re talking about a bunch of sophomores. Not everyone can be the John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, Derrick Rose. There has been significant improvements in all of our player’s ability this year. Was it an exponential increase? No. Are they better, yes. Is there still a ton of work and refining to do? Absolutely. The same could be said of a Wall or Cousins. THey both got pulled from the game the other night for making silly mistakes.
Kitchen’s numbers are slightly better than last year’s, but his offensive rating is essentially the same. I think it seems that he has dissapeared due to the fact that he is scoring way fewer points than he did at the beginning of the year. But, his assists are way up. I really think someone said pass first, second and shoot third to him and he took it to heart.
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Good stuff here TC :) I see progress
Is it going to be fast enough to make it to the NCAA’s? I am still hopeful.
Loucks seems to be making some real progress out there and the 29 points from Kitchen against a good Maryland squad was also promising.
In the second half I notice a lot more zone and the 3 point shot was not there as much for Clemson. Let’s hope someone on the bench recognizes the need to employ as a change of pace on hot shooters instead of getting torched 30+ (lookout Virgina and WF)
I also like the 3 guards at times. The ball movement seemed best when we used Kitchen and Loucks at the same time. If these guys can get a couple NCAA wins under their belt they might come back next year…experienced AND hungry
"I am not now at all sure that the tendency to treat the whole thing as a kind of vast game is really good - certainly not for me who find that kind of thing only too fatally attractive." - J R R Tolkein
This game was gross....
sucks to have all this talent in place, but can’t win because we don’t have a few role players (i.e. no three-point shooting threat and no ball-handler). Every team can just collapse the middle and let our guards fire at will without any real threat of being burned. That leaves the middle clogged up so Alabi and our two slashers (Singleton and Snaer) can’t get a lane to drive to the basket.
Also, Reid should never ever ever be allowed to shoot outside of 6 feet or handle the ball. He’s a good defender but a huge liability on the offensive end.
The whole DeMercy thing has to have had some further affect on this team.
Let me just say you would have to be pretty upset to quit a team in the middle of the season with no way to get that year of eligibility left. Has to have created one more emotional road bump i the least
Then there’s the recent vacation of wins. More emotional garbage the guys really didn’t need.
"I am not now at all sure that the tendency to treat the whole thing as a kind of vast game is really good - certainly not for me who find that kind of thing only too fatally attractive." - J R R Tolkein
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