Florida State Dominating The ACC in Recruiting
by Bud Elliott on Feb 8, 2010 1:11 AM EST
in FSU Football Recruiting
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PrintI've thought for a while that Florida State will soon dominate the ACC in recruiting. And I don't mean the "let's take these highly rated kids who have no shot of qualifying or staying out of prison so that we can pump our national ranking" method. I mean getting the best players who will make a big impact on the field. That time is now. Other ACC writers have noticed:
Clemson travels to Tallahassee to face the ‘Noles. Jimbo Fisher has not messed around down there. He has their offense rocking and rolling fixing the Jeff Bowden debacle with authority. With all the controversy and drama gone, I really expect this team to be improved overall since last year. Also, there is no way that FSU is really that bad on defense, and will be improved there this season. I think the ACC needs to watch out because it looks like Jimbo is moving in the right direction both offensively and on the recruiting trail. These improvements coupled with the fact that their defensive effort cannot get any worse leads me to believe FSU is poised for great things over the next few years and will defeat Clemson this season.-- ShakinTheSouthland.com (Clemson site)
We already know FSU snagged 8 ESPNU150 players while the rest of the ACC landed 9 combined. That's pretty impressive. I find looking at the top 6 ACC classes in chart form to be very helpful. The players below are ranked by Rivals.com rating (6.1 is a 5* player, 6.0-5.8 is a 4*, 5.7-5.5 is a 3*, and 5.4 or less is a 2*). I used Rivals.com and not ESPN because ESPN refuses to rate Junior College players. The teams are ordered by their average star ranking.
(Click to Enlarge)
If you don't think recruiting rankings matter, well, you're wrong. Sleepers don't turn into studs as often as 5* players. As that link shows, they are far less likely.
The thing that strikes me is not that FSU signed more 4 & 5* players than any other team. They did. No, what strikes me is the bottom of FSU's recruiting class. FSU took 1 player rated 5.5 or less (JUCO DT Amp McCloud). Clemson took 4. Virginia Tech took 6. Miami took 8!
FSU didn't take filler players. Doctors get to bury their mistakes. Coaches have to feed theirs for 4 years. Florida State is creating functional depth. And while Miami might get a star or two our of their lower ranked players, we know for a fact that lower rated players are significantly less likely to become star players. FSU's bottom 10 players have a much better chance of becoming good players than do the bottom 10 players of the other classes. That's significant. We're talking about 40% of a class.
Every team will get a few highly rated kids. Where FSU will begin to separate itself is by having a much better bottom 10 players than the other teams in the conference on a yearly basis. And when a team's bottom 10 players would make up a solid base for other classes in the confrence, those teams are going to get dominated.
Inside, find our answers to the ACC recruiting round table!
Who is your prized prospect?
Lamarcus Joyner (5*) and Christian Jones (5*).
How does your fanbase react to recruiting? Or do they just want to see results no matter the star count?
Being a football fanbase (not like most of the Carolina schools), Florida State fans follow recruiting. They realize that results don't come without recruiting. Sure, a smaller school could win the Atlantic when FSU was screwing around with a joke of a coaching staff, but recruiting matters.
Who is the next calvin johnson or philip rivers in this year's crop of acc recruits?
I don't see any great QB's in this class. As for the next Calvin Johnson, the only two elite-level skill position guys I see this year are Martavis Bryant and Christian Green.
Have any recent coaching changes affected your team's recruiting class (eg kiffin to usc)?
Yes, Florida State went from unarguably the worst coaching staff in the league to arguably the best. FSU's recruiting was ranked 39th the day Bowden retired, and finished 6th on ESPN and 10th on Rivals.com, the ACC's best.
Who do you all think have assembled the strongest recruiting class, taking into account not just rankings but the needs each one has filled?
FSU is the undisputed recruiting champion this year. Clemson, who (along with Miami) was the top recruiting team in 2006-2008 has the #2 class. Then there is a considerable jump to the next level. I am impressed with what Maryland did considering the talent base in that area. I feel the need to evaluate Georgia Tech based on only their defensive recruits, and they grabbed 4 or 5 4* defenders. Miami's class is garbage and that staff has given up. Luckily, the Canes don't have the money to fire Shannon. Miami's native son is running that program into the Gulf.
How do you all see ACC schools competing with schools in the SEC and Big 12 for recruits?
The ACC as a whole doesn't compete with the SEC for recruits. But the Big 12 is a two-team league and is on par with the ACC.
| SEC | ACC | BIG IIX |
| 1. Florida | ||
| 2. Texas | ||
| 3. Auburn | ||
| 5. Alabama | ||
| 6. LSU | ||
| 7. Oklahoma | ||
| 9. Tennessee | ||
| 10. Florida State | ||
| 15. Texas A&M | ||
| 16. Georgia | ||
| 17. Ole Miss | ||
| 18. Clemson | ||
| 21. Missouri | ||
| 22. Virginia Tech | ||
| 23. Nebraska | ||
| 24. Miami | ||
| 25. South Carolina |
It should be noted that ESPN likes the ACC a lot more than the Big 12, but since I used Rivals.com rankings in the first chart, I stayed consistent here.
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Comments
Yes!
You’re only as strong as your weakest link so to speak(even though i don’t really think we have any weak links in our class) This is how we used to beat people. our backups were as good as the starters. In the 4th qtr we start roasting people.
I agree
That the time is now for FSU football. The ACC is vastly improved over the 90s version, but a 90s-style FSU would still win the majority of its games in today’s ACC. And I believe Jimbo and his coaches/players will soon get us to the point of winning 10+ games every year. Once we have some on-field results, I expect our recruiting to return to SEC-like levels. In 2-3 years, due to our strength relative to our conference, we could be poised to play for the MNC more frequently than our primary in-state rival.
The main question is, once we regain it, can we maintain it? Others here know far more about FSU’s finances than I do, but my impression is that we don’t have near as much money as some other area schools. Will we be able to hold onto Jimbo and a highly-competent staff if they start having 90s-like success? When we do lose coaches, will we be able to hire excellent replacements? Etc. With Jimbo at the helm, I feel confident – but what if he leaves? I fear a Zook could do much harm to us.
But, for now, I see a steady FSU rise to power. Next season should show signs of improvement (how much based mostly on the defense and Ponder’s health; btw, I understand Jimbo’s refusal to equate wins with improvement, but unfortunately recruits will often look at the Ws). The following season may be limited only by EJ’s first full season as a starter. The year after that, assuming EJ stays, the sky should be the limit. Thinking about all this… I can’t wait for next season.
As long as he’s properly compensated, I can’t really imagine Jimbo leaving us for another program. Florida State is one of those few “it” programs coaches aspire to be at (Thanks to BB). My concern is keeping the assistant coaches long enough. You cannot hold onto them forever as they need to do what’s right for them and continue to pursue their career goal of being an HC, but going to FSU in the Jeff Bowden era, you see how much the rest of the staff matters. That said, given the way he built this staff, when someone of importance does leave, I have full confidence in Jimbo being able to find a suitable replacement.
Let's be clear:
Once we have some on-field results, I expect our recruiting to return to SEC-like levels.
Our total class ranking (quality + quantity) is already upper half or upper third of SEC this year, as illustrated by the chart. In terms of average star ranking (quality-only), we’re already up there with Alabama, LSU, Auburn in the SEC, only trailing Florida by a significant amount, but so is everybody else.
We’ll almost assuredly be competing with the elite of the SEC next year in recruiting on any terms. Then, from where we are, it may take another year or so for these classes to mature before we’re on par with the SEC elites on the field, but let’s not pretend we’re not already competitive in recruiting, because we are.
Deflating SEC hype on TN since ’09 :-P
?
Who said anything about a trend? We’re talking about a “return to SEC-like” recruiting? Haven’t we arrived? When we place ahead of 7 SEC teams, even by the least favorable rating service, isn’t that already an “SEC-like” class?
If we’re talking about our roster, let’s talk about schedules and outcomes… but if we’re talking about recruiting, we just had a top 10 finish. This year’s race has been run, and we “beat” most of the SEC. And, this, while working with half a staff and a host of dark clouds over the program.
I just like to see something happen more than once before saying we've "arrived."
by MattDNole on Feb 8, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We're talking recruiting, right?
If we won a championship on the field, would you wait to see a trend of them? THIS CLASS is on par with upper half of SEC. It is what it is.
From there, we can get into debates about expectations, but a “return” to SEC-like recruiting is simply a misnomer. I would even guess if we averaged our previous couple years with this one that we would come out middle of the pack against the SEC. Talk about inferiority to Alabama’s, Florida’s, etc., if you want, but to say we’re not even in the discussion with the balance of the SEC is defeatist.
Ok, you've successfully argued your point.
I just wanted to make sure you hadn’t formed your opinion using one cycle’s success to act as though we’re suddenly as good as the upper echelon of the SEC.
If you go back over the last four years, we’re not better than Alabama, Florida, LSU, and Georgia have been better than us. We’re in the same discussion as Tennessee, Auburn, and South Carolina. Woohoo middle of the pack!!
Would you feel better if he changed the wording to “a return to elite SEC-style recruiting”?
Umm... no.
Alabama had the number 3 class this year after back-to-back fake recruiting titles. In 2007 they finished 10th while we came in at an underwhelming 21st.
Maybe sit the next few plays out, Champ.
So he means something that is not part of our conversation, got it.
I’d gladly trade them that game if they’ll trade us the 2 BCS bowls and 1 NC.
Absolutely.
a return to elite SEC-style recruiting
Is perfectly fine. I just take offense to being slated beneath Kentucky.
Perhaps the phrase was a bit off
And I like Matt’s suggestion of adding the word “elite.” But let’s compare FSU’s class to UF’s, in terms of 5- and 4-star athletes. Heck, let’s look at AUBURN (how else do they rack up the class they did if they aren’t in the SEC?), Alabama, LSU, Tennessee (a bigger coaching switch than we had, with less time to make it up). Georgia wasn’t too far behind us. I didn’t mean that we haven’t done well lately, but I suppose I could have replaced “SEC-like recruiting” with “FSU-90s-like recruiting.” And in terms of rankings, we aren’t there yet. In terms of the number of high-profile recruits (yes, I know not all of them pan out, but rankings are indications – see the article referenced above), we aren’t there yet. But we will be.
And is anyone satisfied with being in the “upper half” (at the low end of it) of the SEC in recruiting? I’m not – I’m waiting for the day when FSU again brings in the stud athletes we want with relative ease (again, see UF and all its ridiculous coaching crap this season – and they STILL killed in recruiting).
We’ll be back soon. As I said, though, can we stay there? We need to build a stronger fan-base and booster organization; we need to find other ways to bring in revenue (better TV contracts, selling merchandise and tickets, etc.). It’ll be tough, but I think FSU CAN do it.
As far as tradition – I think FSU has plenty. Someone suggested tossing out the dynasty years, but that’s like telling Notre Dame or Alabama to toss out THEIR heyday. It makes no sense to suggest that – tradition is built by long-term success. The 90s give us a great foundation. If Jimbo has the success I think he will, FSU will solidly be in the upper tier in terms of tradition (more money will help keep us there – so donate! Personally, I put my money where my mouth was, and I sent in a donation the day Bowden’s resignation was announced; this year, I plan to increase my donation).
I'm on the same page with your broader perspective.
I just don’t think it’s useful to diminish our present standing as part of laying out the road-map for improvement.
Put it this way — in our darkest hour, we have only fallen to middle-of-the-pack SEC. Not very far to go to get back into the elite. NSD was a great 1st (or maybe 2nd or 3rd) step.
Keep in mind how terrible bottom of the pack SEC football is.
FSU should never fall to the level of Kentucky, Vandy, or Mississippi State.
Two years
We have to do it consistently is what he is saying and we probably will but its yet to be proven. Bama is number one in state when it comes to importance so is LSU, Georgia and most other SEC schools. We still battle Miami for number 2 in our state and until we lay waste to them Florida isnt even in the picture.
I have now jumped totally on the DEVELOPMENT bandwagon
didn’t see it coming, but its here!!!Stars Whats a star!! or Two!! Give me a development program best in the ACC!!
As usual
the opinions are supported with sound empirical data and probability calculations.
Thanks.
Why do you think that Miami is having such a problem this year when they had a good season, their coaching staff is relatively stable and the kids in South Florida usually lean toward the Canes? I live in Ft. Lauderdale and I see a Canes bias even more than kids jumping on the Gator bandwagon. Any thoughts?
Stable coaching staff?
I don’t know that that is the situation. They had first year OC and DC last year, and lost coaches this year, right?
Just referencing point about coaching stability.
Whether he’s an active recruiter or not, being able to assure players of development under a former NFL QB coach is attractive.. but they can’t even guarantee he’ll be around for too long.
They were still 2nd or 3rd in the ACC overall, depending upon which source you look to, and #1 in the Coastal division.
If they only had to play the ACC, there wouldn’t be cause for alarm based on recruiting alone.
However, they do have to play some better coached teams like VT and their OOC schedulnig is nearly as bad as FSU’s. Next season they have to play at Ohio St. & at Pitt., with USF at home. They have FAMU at home, at OSU, bye week, and at Pitt, at Clemson, and FSU to start their season. They finish with at GT, and VT & USF to close. Here is their 2010 schedule.
In 2011, their OOC is: OSU, K-state, USF.
It’s hard to get to elite level without taking some practice weeks against cupcakes. They are gambling on several out-of-state project players. If there is a lapse in coaching, it will show in the W-L column.
this sucks balls
all of this football talk is depressing..now i’m stuck with watching hockey and nba until mlb starts, which can only fill the void so much..dammit
"We need grown-ass men"
FSUn good stuff as usual
I have a some questions for you. Reading your comments in the past few months about where the program was, is now and where you saw it going in the future. Would you say the progress FSU’s made since Bowden departure is about where you anticipated to be, or ahead of where you thought FSU would be as a program right now?
Are you at all suprised by the money and commitment FSU is putting into not just the coaching staff but the support staff for the football program? And did you for see the uptick in booster contributions happening this quicky?
And with what’s happened so far do you still view FSU’s ceiling as a program the same as you did in say November or have you adjusted what you think FSU in capable of longterm?
I know FSU is not on the level on some of the real heavy hitters financialy but I personally look at the finaces like this, as long as you can stay in the same ball park as the top dogs, meaning your program is capable of generating enough revenue to get you everything the big boys play with you don’t have to have the same cash as them because they can’t use it all.
At some point I think the money becomes redundant (Ok St.) because there is only so many things you can spend it on. If it was just about cash Texas would kick everybody ass because Bama, UF and probably even ND can’t match the cash those guys are capable of throwing around. To use a baseball ananlogy you don’t have to be the Yankees you just can’t be the Royals.
In your opinion would you say that’s a fair assessment in regards to the impact of the money in these “tier 1” programs or is it something I’m overlooking or underselling?
Good site for finances
You can check out where the money comes from and where it goes.
A couple things people seem to forget:
1. This coaching staff costs less right now than the staff they replaced
2. Donations to boosters are up
Seriously, if you haven’t already, join Seminole Boosters and help ensure as broad based fan support as we can provide. I think it is kind of sad that our booster org is 25% smaller than NCSU for example.
To answer a couple of your points
I know FSU is not on the level on some of the real heavy hitters financialy but I personally look at the finaces like this, as long as you can stay in the same ball park as the top dogs, meaning your program is capable of generating enough revenue to get you everything the big boys play with you don’t have to have the same cash as them because they can’t use it all.
The ‘top dogs’ are playing in the new Yankee Stadium while FSU is in the sandlot
At some point I think the money becomes redundant (Ok St.) because there is only so many things you can spend it on. If it was just about cash Texas would kick everybody ass because Bama, UF and probably even ND can’t match the cash those guys are capable of throwing around. To use a baseball ananlogy you don’t have to be the Yankees you just can’t be the Royals.
Bama, UF, Ohio St are all on the same level as Texas. We have Royals money but fortunately are run by much more intelligent people then them, the Rays would be a better example (making the most of limited resources)
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
yeah but how much of thier profits goes back into operating cost each year?
Thier are only so many assistant trainers, and help staff, etc .you need. How much of the money are they spending on them?
I can see the money going into thing like player lounges and such, but you’re not building a new one every year.
I don't think anyone could be on the same level as Texas
If they wanted to just thorw around money. Maybe ND.
No they don’t. They dont have anywhere near the money UT has, especially not LSU. Unless LSU is generating like 30 million more dollars a year since 2005, LSU has no where near the money that Texas has. No one has as much money as Texas, no one.
Don't just look at their endowment.
UT does have a very large endowment. They have about 7.5 BILLION of the University of Texas System’s total 17 billion or so. But you have to look at football money. How much money they raise and spend on football. In football money, other teams do compete with UT.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
No one compares to UT. Unless schools are magically generating 30+ million dollars a year since 2005, NO ONE compares to Texas.
You are missing the point. Again.
Forgot about the SPEND part of “raise and SPEND.” UF spent 300k more than Texas last year for football.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
It includes coaching salaries.
RnN may have different numbers than these but they will give you a good idea. I’m sure when his article comes out there will be clarity for all.
You are right. Texas makes a TON of money on their athletics. But other schools have shown that they are willing to spend a bunch on football to stay elite, like UF.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
No problem
and still some people just don’t get that NCAA football (and other sports) is a huge business. “They are students” yadda yadda. Yes they are students. Students that help UT generate almost 140 million dollars a year. Just crazy.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
They may spend as much but
If Texas really wanted to throw money around I don’t think anyone could come close to them. The type of money that program has the potential to tap into is insane. Just look at the high school facilities and coache’s salary in that state, those guys are capable of generating the type of money that would shame anyone in the SEC imho. I can’t imagine how may wealthy boosters that program has.
I can't find the article
But recently the AD at UT asked a “younger” booster for a 4 million dollar donation and there was 5 million wired the next day no questions asked.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
What about the money to withstand hard times?
"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"
What seperates a good team from a bad team
I believe I heard Nick Saban say it was the bottom 40 players on a roster that make championship teams. I think he said this right after the Texas game (maybe before the game???).
While I may be blinded by my loyalties, I think we have now collected three quality classes in a row 2008 (lots of current starters), 2009 (some stars but still need more time to evaluate), and the 2010 class appears outstanding on paper.
Now that we have a full coaching staff recruiting, the next few years should see even better results on the recruiting trail.
Foosball is the devil
Clemson had the top class in 06,07, and 08.
I did not realize that. Looks like it may take us more time to catch up?
I don't think so
Even though Clemson had the top class in the ACC 3 years in a row the only side of the ball that really shows it so far is the defense. Spiller leaving leaves Clemson with a lot of question marks since he was the guy who made their O and ST tick. The quote in the article from their site is already predicting they will lose to us this year.
by osceolafan850 on Feb 8, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
They are working with an HC + offensive system hardly superior to ours in the JB years.
Another great illustration of what talent can’t do without proper coaching.
I doubt it...
not when you factor in the second half of the equation: coaching and development. Remember, Clemson’s staff is comprised of Bowden associates/buddies/cast-offs. They’re not state of the art, to put it mildly.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Feb 8, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Clemson is probably a good bit ahead of Florida State on the defensice side of the ball. However, I think FSU has enough talent that Stoops will get much more out of this group than you saw last season. Offensively, FSU is way ahead of Clemson from an X’s and O’s perspective. Clemson cannot consistently run the football (and by consistent running I don’t mean Spiller hitting a homerun ball) because of our offensive line. Brad Scott has done a terrible job the past 3-5 years and Clemson is paying the price. Clemson does not have quality depth up front and the players under Scott did not seem to be developed either. We had a similar story with the WR last season, as Jacoby Ford was the only real threat who could both get open and catch the ball. Hence, our TE (Michael Palmer) ended up being Clemson’s most reliable and clutch pass catcher.
Overall, Clemsonmay have had better overall classes in those years, but players (offensively listed above) were either not evaluated correctly or have not been developed properly since coming on-campus, particularly up front offensively and CU is paying for that now.
I also like FSU’s coaching staff. I think Clemson is fine on the defensive side of things with Steele and his assistants, but think there is a clear FSU advantage offensively—especially from an experience standpoint, starting with Fischer and working down the list.
Clemson Sports Analysis and Insight
www.shakinthesouthland.com
Will all ACC sites have this up?
I can’t wait to see what the UM site has to say. Some Cane fans agree that this class is a big miss for them, but other Cane fans are buying into the depth building and sleeper company lines. I also think it is funny that Canes fans were saying Shannon didn’t go after Joyner or Mitchell because he doesn’t like short corners, but they sign a kid who is 5 foot 10. As if Joyner’s talent does compensate for that one inch lol. I really hope that staff has given up so we can pull kids like Benjamin next year.
just wanted to point out a little typo on the very last line...
“But the Big 12 is a two-team league and is on par witht he ACC. "
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
>>>──────►
I couldn’t agree more re the comment that the bottom of class’s talent matters as much as the tops – that was clearly a problem in the first half of the 2000s when we still had great players in half the positions and crap in the other half – whereas in the 90s the lower half was still pretty darn good
Yes
Our eyes always dart to the “extreme” values, but it’s really about the distribution. Which, by the way, makes Florida’s and Texas’ recruiting class even more astounding:
22 of 28 (79%) of UF’s commits were 4* or greater
21 of 25 (84%) of Texas’ commits were 4* or greater
_____________________________________________
10 of 24 (42%) of FSU’s commits were 4* or greater
Jimbo
since Jimbo runs a pro-style NFL offense, seems logical that the best next step for him would only be the NFL. LSU, other than money, wouldn’t make any sense.
also
why jump ship to LSU after Miles has officially run the program into the ground? after (for the sake of argument/hypotheticals) rebuilding FSU to 9-10 win seasons would he start all over again?
With LSU's resources it can be done a lot quicker then at FSU
See Alabama
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
You cant assume to know what he wants man
All we are saying is that its possible. I love FSU, I dont see why anyone wouldnt want to be a part of Seminole Nation. I am not most people.
Do coaches really care about their competition level?
Does going from good competition to great competition really matter? It doesn’t to me, at least.
Nice compromise.
But, in seriousness, do you care who you face in the title game? Because you’re going to do everything you can to win no matter whom you face…
True
But if you beat a team you are heavily favored to win against, people won’t take it as seriously.
Hopefully a title game won’t be so one-sided, but who knows.
2010 ~ The Year of the Spear
For the Talk of TV contracts
Most update info I think. Might be new numbers out there but this will give everyone a good idea of where the Conferences Stand. SEC teams are Getting Paid.
Conf Teams $/Year $/Yr/Tm TV Partners
SEC 12 $205.0 $17.1 CBS, ESPN
Big 10 11 $174.0 $15.8 BTN, ABC/ESPN, CBS*
ND 1 $11.0 $11.0 NBC, Big East*
Big 12 12 $79.5 $6.6 ABC/ESPN, FSN
ACC 12 $66.9 $5.6 ABC/ESPN, Raycom*
Pac 10 10 $53.2 $5.3 ABC/ESPN, FSN, ABC/ESPN*
Big East 8^ $45.3 $3.7 ABC/ESPN, CBS*
MWC 9 $12.0 $1.3 CBSC/Mtn.
CUSA 12 $11.3 $0.9 CBSC, ESPN
WAC 9 $4.0 $0.4 ESPN
MAC 13 $1.4 $0.1 ESPN
Sunbelt 9 $0.0 $0.0 ESPN, Cox/Charter
So basically it is the SEC and then the Big Ten (yes the Big Ten network seems to be paying off) and then everyone else not even close with Notre Dame to a lesser extent. Hope this brings some perspective.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Notre Dame makes more money than the entire ACC
The SEC makes about 4X as much
Hell, the Pac 10 is equal (9 teams while ACC has 12) per team.
Yup.
Pac 10 negligible difference of only 300k per team.
You mean Notre Dame by themselves makes more PER team right? Because they do. And that is lame. Twice as much as any ACC team.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 8, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
If the ACC could get over $10 Million per team, I would be thrilled...
I wonder what the likelihood is?
I would say slim to none.
I of course have no info on how likely that is. But I think ACC fans and schools should be thrilled with a raise to about 8 million a school. I just don’t see them Signing a 120 million a year contract doubling the previous numbers. I would be happy if we took the 3rd conference spot behind the SEC and the Big 10.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 8, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm trying to find numbers for both football and basketball.
We are lucky that both deals expire at the same time. If we package them, we could get a big contract.
That is what I think...
well 50% think 50% hope.
Could be wrong.
That is a great site and I have used it before but I’m not certain that the revenues total includes TV contracts. That is only program generated money.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 8, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Here's an interesting link...
ESPN’s deal with the SEC is 5 times more lucrative than the ACC’s deal with Raycom (these are comparable because ESPN is the second source for SEC coverage while Raycom follows ESPN in ACC coverage).
Man, I really would love to be a fly on the wall in ACC's...
office when talking TV contracts.
They are SCREWED if they can’t do something decent with this next contract.
Also says "industry analysts" expect a 50 to 60 percent increase on our football contract.
Our basketball contract with Raycom is around $35 million as well.
We have to shop these two as a package deal.
this isn't good...
“"All of the distribution in the world is of no value if you don’t have content," said Haines, who has enjoyed a 20-year-plus relationship with ACC Commissioner John Swofford and banks on those ties to keep Raycom in the game.”
I don’t trust Swofford.
Maybe he's not a complete baffoon?
Swofford:
We have the opportunity to consolidate our football and basketball, which we have not done historically in this league. We separated the two, but we set them up purposely so the contracts would end simultaneously this time around so we could connect the two should we desire to do so.
THAT is smart...
but if he doesn’t parlay it into a swee deal, it means little.
Yes, but...
this contract will determine if the ACC survives as one of the big boys.
His dealings with bowls, etc has been horrible, so I just don’t trust him to do a good job with something this important.
I will gladly eat crow, but you don’t entrust critical jobs to folks who haven’t succeeded.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's chopped liver.
Just holding out hope that a blind squirrel may find a nut… or be lead to a nut under penalty of execution.
He has been speaking that up for a while
I can’t see him talking about it for so long and then switching. Man did UNC pick a bad time to stick up the joint in Bball. I am sure they will turn it around next year though. Insane that I will be rooting for Duke and UNC as much as possible for the next year or so.
by osceolafan850 on Feb 8, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Raycom is the worst...
“Which, for Raycom, means it all comes down to the ACC.”
If ACC sticks with them…Swofford should be run.
by noles55 on Feb 8, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess that would be OK....
I just know the ACC needs a MAJOR network that pushes the conference like ESPN does the SEC
Soooo let's say
(My) Best case scenario.
We get a 50% Increase for ACC football contracts (highly doubt this but maybe more likely if we tie it to the bball contract) coupled with a tied deal with basketball which also sees a 50% increase (more likely).
We would be looking at a total contract of about 153 million. Puts us still in 3rd place AND we are sharing with the basket ball programs.
If you give the bball programs their fair share you are looking at:
8.375 for football/year
4.375 for basketball/year
That is 12.75 million total for each school per year. So we are still 5 million short of SEC teams even combining two sports. It is going to be hard to catch up. We will probably still be far behind even if we get creative with a combined deal. Have to remember the economy totally tanked right after ESPN finalized their deal with the SEC. That will just make things even tougher for teams looking to get an increase in future contracts.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 8, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
ACC doesn't have to catch the SEC....
just get in the same ‘university’ ($10 plush a year per team).
I agree. Don't have to catch the SEC.
But I don’t think we hit that 10m mark for football with a new contract. Again, I could be totally surprised here but look for matt’s number of 100m a year for football. That would be 8.3 million a year per school. That would be great and probably a more realistic number to shoot for.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I am saying $10 Million for the WHOLE package...
I don’t like splitting them up.
HAHA.
Not sure Coach Ham would agree with you. But yes 10 million/year for the whole package should be a reasonable goal to attain. Probably even on the low end. I would like the 153 million total. Probably fall somewhere in the middle.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
That would be a HUGE win for the ACC...
and FSU IMHO.
Again, ACC doesn’t need SEC money…..just somewhere in the same universe. I think your numbers would do that.
Also, keeping footballtied with basketball helps keep the ACC focused on both.
Correct.
A hypothetical ACC yearly payout (Football and Bball, if we work a contract for both) to the SEC yearly payout (just football) they currently have. The point being even if we combine both we are still behind (with a 50% increase to both football and bball contracts).
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Feb 8, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Here is a report on football revenue.
If we could get the ACC total to $100 million annually through ESPN+ Raycom or through another network, I’d be ecstatic. The basketball deal should help that as well.
Improvements
We, as fans of the Noles, have to be patient. I know that it will be hard, considering the last decade of watching our team slide toward mediocracy, but it will not happen overnight. I think Jimbo has a plan and coupled with the new s&c coach and nutrition program, I think we are headed in the right direction. Honestly, with the passion of our new coaching staff, it could happen sooner or later. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Go Noles!
by NoleySmokes on Feb 8, 2010 12:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think sooner
I really think Jimbo is on the right track. Numerous coaches have shown in recent years that huge turnarounds can be made in 2 years. I think FSU will do that. We have had a couple strong recruiting classes, we now have a great coaching staff – and we will be one of the top teams in the ACC in the next couple years (= shot at ACC titles and BCS bowls). When we start winning again, we’ll have better TV slots, more exposure. If we do start winning again, Jimbo and the program will get a lot of nice coverage. I don’t mean to be too unrealistic with my expectations, but FSU has some name-recognition, some advantages. What we need to do is capitalize on them and the opportunities that winning again will bring us. I think FSU CAN move up into FSUn’s second tier (eventually). It’ll take a committed fan base though, so buy tickets, buy merchandise, join the boosters, go support the teams (not just football), and don’t back down (in every every “mixed marriage” I personally know of, the kids are being raised Gator fans…).
The tragic fact is
that many of the same delusional fans who were content to worship Bobby and who thought the Deacde of Decay should last even longer, will be the very ones screaming over the next 2 years that Jimbo should be fired for not turning things around immediately.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Feb 8, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think they are few and far between, though.
Even on other FSU sites the majority are glad the changes have occured.
Florida State had four players ranked as a 5 star by at least one of the networks
Christian Green, 5 star on Scout and their #1 player in Florida
Christian Jones, 5 star on Rivals and their #2 OLB (BS)
Lamarcus Joyner, 5 star on Rivals and ESPN
Jeff Luc, 5 star on ESPN.
Anthony McCloud was the best DT in Georgia his senior year in HS. Brandon Thompson’s own coach voted for him as the best DT in their county. Cameron Erving was the 5A All State in Georgia. Dominic Easley was given an offer by Florida AFTER Darious Cummings turned them down.
Mike Harris was the top Juco DB in the country. Jimbo isn’t shy about praising Telvin Smith. I’m beginning to see what FSUncensored has seen in Nigel Terrell.
And Bjoern Werner / Will Tye might be the two best athletes in the class. But, they played in Connecticut and both had off the field concerns that scared the services away from lauding them (Tye with grade concerns; Werner with ya know, being German).
This is a top flight class. Jimbo nailed every angle. Our DEs are going to be 260+ pounds the both of them like LSU 2002-2006. No more WDE/SDE. Watch every Brother Stoops’ and Saban defense. Both DEs are big, collapse the pocket, and stop the run. Create pressure not through going 10 on 11 against the run with a speed rusher, but by collapsing the pocket and bringing the speed from the LBs and DBs.
Luc fills his gaps more violently than any player on the roster already. I’m really excited to see what the staff does with Joyner. Jimbo doesn’t use words like “flip the field potential” cavalierly, but he says this all the time with Joyner.
Florida State as a whole most focus on the future and lay a solid foundation to become one of the elite
1. The institution most continue to produce Lawyers, Doctors, Nurse or any high paying grad. Not only that they most make these grads more loyal to Florida State then their undergrad school (I know it’s going to be hard but it needs to happen.)
2. The institution most create a SEC-like fan base in football and a Duke-like fan base in basketball. I want anyone who has ever been to Florida State to become a passionate fan who donates a lot money.
3. Endow scholarships.
4. Find a big time donor and wisely invest the money without tapping into the principle unless their is an emergency.
5. Improve our education ratings. No need for any school to have that as a trump card over us.
6. Invest in football until it can support itself and then pimp the football to donors, students and whoever.
7. Make Tallahassee more friendly to football players and allow us to gain a few favors. (Similar to what the Gators have in Gainesville)
8. Let Florida State become a powerful voter base in Tallahassee; that way the politics don’t ever cross us locally.
9. School of Journalism please.
10. Make Saturdays in the fall an experience.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I like your ideas.
I’ve also been thinking of practical things FSU can do to increase its funds, academic standing, and fan base. I have to head out now, but I’d like to participate in a discussion at some point. There’s no reason some Seminole fans can’t make a concerted effort to benefit the university.
Is that all?
I don’t mean to be snide, but that’s a pretty lengthy to do list, if the intention is simply the return of football dominance. I think you should be a bit more practical that trying to develop a fanbase on par with the best in the country in their respective sports, and making the town more “friendly” to football players…my point is that most of these ideas are good for the University as a whole, a should be viewed that way. If a school is trying to increase it’s academic standing to boost the football program, then somewhere along the road, priorities have shifted…
YES!!!
The overall goal should be to make FSU one of the best places to go to college. Football, however, is one way to help accomplish that (lots of publicity comes with an elite football team).
It's a long term plan.
It twenty years this is very doable and would allow Florida State to become one of the Elite schools in America.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
In*
Dang we really need an edit button.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
So your sayin there's a chance!
Sorry, couldn’t resist that. Seriously, though, this is depressing. I’ll run the risk of sounding like a homer and ask, do some of you even believe FSU is going to be successful? All i hear is negativity. Perk up! So our golden oppurtunity to run w/ BB’s success was ruined by none other than BB. So we have to start over. So we’re outgunned financially and have become the butt of many jokes. SO WHAT! The future’s not written in stone people. What should we do just bow to SEC and the even more powerful dollar? I understand being realistic but how bout some freakin positive thinking? Ever heard the saying " if you believe, you can achieve!"
We can be elite but you have to realize that other programs have been around a lot longer then us.
With a solid plan we can get there in twenty years. I’m not saying this plan should be followed to the T but it is a nice guideline to follow. The money issue works itself out if we have passionate people who donate money to the school. I don’t think I am being negative with my post but rather being positive knowing that becoming elite is possible.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
No dude,
What you posted wasn’t negative at all! I was indirectly THANKING you for being realistic while also not paraphrasing FSU being 3rd tier dogcrap that never stood a chance!
And I think we said closer to top 10.
Fact is, when operating at peak efficiency, Texas is going to have fundamental advantages over us. So are a lot of other schools. That’s why FSU has to learn how to game the system if we want to win National Championships. For example: scheduling intelligently (And before you old-timers pitch in, that’s not filling up on cupcakes. It is scheduling intelligently.).
Never.
3rd tier was what i was talking about. Jimbo being a lock to follow the almighty dollar to L.S.WHO also.
If you read the thread, then you would remember that 3rd tier is top 15 by FSUn's definition.
Tier = 5 schools.
I disagree with him on Jimbo to LSU.
My computer's going too slow to really pick your brain on this.
Maybe i’m overly optimistic, I just don’t think there’s much of a point to living if you can’t aspire to occupy the #1 spot. Everytime i hear someone say we’re simply beneath UF, i lose a bit more of my lunch. What if BSU succumbed to what everyone said before they played OU? What if everytime someone was told they can’t or they’re not in the same league they believed the hype? Should we all just get fitted for jr. Mao suits now and skip fighting the good fight?
Here's the difference: BSU vs OU was a one-game scenario.
Do I think we can and will beat UF sometimes? OF COURSE. As you say, why would I cheer for FSU if I didn’t think that? Do I think FSU can win a National Championship? Yes, I do.
But in the long run, UF/Bama/Texas will be in a better position to win those titles than FSU will.
Not that it can’t be done. Just that it is inherently more difficult than it would be for these other schools.
Ok, that's logical.
I agree totally with that assessment. I don’t mind facing more resourceful opponents, that just dictates that we must outwork and outthink whenever possible.
The size of the army doesn't win the war...
but if the little guy wants to have a chance, he has to be a lot smarter than the big guy.
You cannot ignore
the implications of other schools that have the attendance to take a huge chunk of money. In the 90s etc. FSU didn’t really have to compete with anyone but Florida for the state revenue pie, but now you UCF (3rd largest school in the country) and USF that are both taking a lot of money away from FSU. That being said, as I have stated on here previously, I believe in the cyclical nature of these things, and believe that FSU will be back sooner than later. And this is from a Gator…
Certainly true however with effort and careful planning
Florida State will be able to easily overcome those obstacles.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Please remember I am talking about a long term goal.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I understand
that, but you basically laid out a best case scenario for the University. Of course I’m not asking you to develop a strategy for how to achieve this, but it would seem to me a little bit overoptimistic to think that a shift in the University system could be easily overcome….
Depends on how much...
untapped potentail FSU has.
Considering the rednecks that have run it for are now mostly gone (Jim King, TK, Thrasher) I think FSU has a TON of untapped potential.
It is very possible especially in the long term.
As long as FSU works toward it, it’ll happen and notice nothing I listed is far fetched.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not even a J-school?
The sports columnists of the state’s big dailies are predominantly UF J-school grads. Either that or I’ve been Bianchi’d.
it would help
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but a FSU alum I used to work with was convinced that the only reason anything ever got out about Florida athletes was that it was too big to cover up. Contrarily he believed that everything bad about FSU athletes got released because there wasn’t a media force trying to contain it…I don’t buy it, but we do have a strong media presence in the state…just look at the Sentinel
UF is to FSU what FSU is to UCF/USF
Not worried about them stealing any of our thunder/money
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
FSU's endowment...
is over 4 times the size of UCFs.
UCF has twice the amount of students.
They aren’t getting even close the money for football.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
You're correct
in pointing out the correlation between athletic success and academic success. If you look at both FSU, and UF they had a substantial increase in the overall academics at both schools in the 90s, and there are statistics that show that after a University wins a championship, they see a huge spike in applications. I do though think you’re underestimating the effect that these other schools will have on the future of athletics in the state. Getting more money from the state for these schools means that the athletic dept at places like FSU and UF will have to generate their own revenue stream. It’s kind of a chicken or egg problem. People donate when you win, but you can’t win if people don;t donate…
UF
Doesn’t spend a state dime on athletics. In fact their athletic money goes into a large pool of money that has actually donated over 50 million to the schools academics. FSU does but it isn’t that much. They already create their own revenue for the programs. Unless the Florida legislature decides to spend 30 million on UCF football a few years in a row they are a non factor.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I guess you're
correct. And knew that about the athletic depts. but I guess I just see it as a larger issue. If other schools are growing in size, and spending (UCF spends quite a bit) I see the competition getting more fierce….I guess that’s what I’m saying
UCF spends quite a bit compared to the teams in its own conference but not at a BCS level
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
this obviously
isn’t about UCF, but seriously, how are they not winning that conference every year? they outspend everyone, are in Florida, and have a coach with name recognition and they get beat by teams like Marshall, Houston, and Tulsa?
I do not want FSU to blow up
Like UCF. For one, we don’t have the room for the campus to expand. Two, adding 25,000 extra students to FSU might actually break Tallahassee.
Are you saying UCF spends a lot of money on football or all athletics or on academics?
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
they spend a lot
on football. I don’t know what the stats are now, but several years ago, before UMs big raise etc. I remember there being a thing about UCF having the highest paid coaching staff in the state…I remember it because it was so absurd.
Not sure what you saw...
but they aren’t on the map right now.
FSU’s total for all head coaches for all male sports is over 4 million.
UCF’s total for all head coaches for all male sports is 840k.
FSU asst coaches total for all male sports 4.25 million.
UCF asst coaches total for all male sports 1.76 million.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
again it was
a while ago. I think it was right after they hired O’Leary, I believe Zook was still at UF etc….I should just stop since i have article or link but whatever…
No worries.
I do seem to remember some talk about their salaries a while back when they brought in O’Leary.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
really?
I haven’t heard that, but the ath dept at FSU and UF are self sustaining…I seriously doubt though that the UCF dept. brings in enough money to pay for all that they’ve built that last 4 or 5 years (stadium, facilities etc)
Yes, I thought I read that somewhere recently.
I have no clue where. I was hoping someone would be able to verify that for me. I also thought UCF’s stadium was funded entirely from private donations.
Don't think so.
Pretty sure part of Bobby’s came out of state funds. I think Fisher’s does too. And Cards is right below. Don’t think some teams would be able to survive without some state funds.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
There's a reason why
Bobby was consider the highest paid STATE EMPLOYEE. His salary is most def state funded.
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Feb 8, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
his base state salary was 200k
and the rest was made up with endorsements, performances bonuses and yada. That 200k is still 70k more than Gov Crist
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Feb 8, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Correct. The rest came from endorsements etc.
I’m trying to find out how much state funds get spent on other instate schools. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I dont know if its true
but a UF fan recently told me that Urban’s salary is completely funded by boosters
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Feb 8, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
See some above comments.
Their entire athletic program is funded by UF’s Athletic Association, INC. I don’t know if Urbs whole salary comes from boosters (might but doubt it) but as far as I have been able to find out they don’t spend state dollars on athletics. They only need to spend money that they have generated. In fact the UAA has donated millions to the school’s academics.
Your UF buddy might be getting the the funding in the UAA with the boosters confused.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Right
I’m sure thats what he meant. He’s kind of country and not sure he would understand the difference
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Feb 8, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
be a better fan
Seriously. How about realie when FSu is operating at peak efficiency and if that’s not NC level, deal with it. Root for the ‘Noles becasue they are trying and because you’re a ‘Nole. Does FSU have to root for NC’s for you to like them?
Oh ok...
I’m kind of new around here, and perhaps a little slow…I’ll give the same little disclaimer I gave last week…As a Gator, I enjoy going to other message boards for a different perspective. When you surround yourself with only your own, things tend to get skewed…if my presence is bothering anyone, I’ll leave.
Not bothering me
I can’t go to other boards though because they aren’t nearly as informative. We joust quite a bit on here too though
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 8, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I like spending time
on Gator boards, don’t get me wrong, but everything is seen through orange and blue glasses, and that gets old. I fancy myself more of a realist than to think that every recruit we have is going to be “the next” fill in the blank…any team site can get that way, but sometimes I just prefer a change of scenery
Nice to know but the point was we need to produce highly paid grads
as well as influential grads.
by Legal_Seminole on Feb 8, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Revenue is down without a doubt
I am hopeful this changes when FSU begins winning again and I think it will. The lost decade was disastrous in this regard.
Jimbo had a chance to go to Miami with Saban and he turned it down. He could have gotten his foot in the door at that time if he wished. I simply don’t think the NFL appeals to him that much.
I could see LSU going after him. I could also see them going after Pellini who has long standing ties there and he is doing quite a job bringing Nebraska back. Jimbo with a young family however would probably rather them grow up in Tallahassee as opposed to Baton Rouge. Wouldn’t you if you were in the same situation?
I am hopeful that with success FSU may be able to come very close to matching the money other schools come up with. I still say the recruiting area in which FSU sits makes up for some of the revenue problem.
Look what Wake has accomplished with a small school, very little money but a top head coach. It can be done. I do consider FSU a top ten destination school for head coaches.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Feb 8, 2010 12:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The main point is that WF doesnt have the money to be 'consistently' good
Can FSU catch some breaks every couple years and go to a National Title? YES
Can they consistently be in a title hunt like UF, UT and Bama? NO
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I would answer yes to both...
but add FSU has to be operating at FULL efficiency to do so. No more hiring idiot family members or redneck presidents.
UF and UT
I remember Tebow’s first year as a starter and they were not in contention. I remember after VY left Texas they were not in contention. I hate how everyone gives SEC team so much love. I compare our situation more to USC than any SEC team. Honestly, the ACC is nothing to brag about. It is a solid conference, but FSU should dominate it.
I don't think
these situations are comparable…Texas replaced VY with a RS freshman in McCoy, and finished 13th in the rankings. Tebow’s first year he won the Heisman, and it was the defense that let them down. Florida averaged 40 a game.
Yeah, but how long did these programs stay down?
Texas went back to the NC game 4 years after winning their last one. In the grand scheme,an Ole Miss, or Auburn, or VT simply cannot do that. And u should already know about UF
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 8, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
well, it changed a little bit today,
since I re-upped after a lengthy hiatus. I hope everyone on this board has.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
by PeachTreeNole on Feb 8, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing worth mentioning
FSU dominating the ACC is a quick ticket to a national championship game. Many other schools will not have such a situation especially in the SEC.
I agree most like Oregon’s uniforms but FSU is not far behind in this respect. I like ours better. If we get the indoor practice facility we will be second to none. Jimbo pushing for it leads me to believe he plans on hanging around. He has said himself everything he aspires to in his coaching career can be accomplished at FSU. After observing the man there is nothing about him that leads me to believe he is the type that just blows smoke. He seems pretty genuine to me.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Once again, I agree...
especially this one…
“FSU dominating the ACC is a quick ticket to a national championship game. Many other schools will not have such a situation especially in the SEC.”
Great Post
Combine Jimbo’s cupcake scheduling philosophy with ACC play and we have a desirable path to football championships. JF will build a team that consistently goes 10-0 regular season, has 1 dogfight with UF to win, wins ACC championship game and then plays in BCS games most years.
JF could have created an opportunity for himself somewhere in the SEC but opted for the path of least resistance and long-term viability here.
This post was totally hijacked by this "built in advantages" argument...
but there has do be a cut off when it comes to money. It old phrase “What can’t you do with a 100 million that you can do with a billion?” So if school A brings in x amount, and school b brings in less than 1/2 of that, but they can both do above and below the table the same thing in regards to facilities, staff, support, and recruits, what does the extra matter? Money is important, but we’re putting far to much importance on the total amounts and not enough on how much is enough. Every SEC school is part of that contract, but does any of us think Ole Miss, Miss St, or S Carolina is in the same “tier” as FSU?
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Agreed
Money only goes so far. If money was everything, the Lakers, Yankees, and Redskins would win every year. A lot of it is coaching, and unfortunately FSU has had bad coaching this whole decade. Then another big part is player evaluation. Those last seem to have been fixed.
"Money isn't everything"
Number 1, the NFL has a salary cap that encourages parity therefore the Redskins should be removed from the equation.
The Yankees and Lakers may not win every year, but they’re in the discussion. You know who isn’t in the discussion? The Royals, Pirates, Nationals, Thunder, and Grizzlies.
So if you don’t spend like the big boys, you aren’t going to consistently compete. Nor should you expect to.
I think NaGa has a valid point that once you reach a certain threshold, extra revenue may not matter much.
I should have just waited for you reply. All well. maybe reading it twice will help.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Salary caps do nothing more than transfer money from players to owners, there is no evidence that they actually work to encourage parity. In fact, there is more praity in baseball than the NBA or the NFL.
365 days, until I change my ways.
Agreed 100%
The money is going into someone’s pockets whether that be to the owners or players
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Lakers and Yankees...
The two most likely to compete for a championship every year you mean? Just because they don’t win it every year doesn’t mean that the money they spent hasn’t put them in reasonable position to do so. Pro Football has caps.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
You need money *AND* solid leadership to be consistently successful
It is not about winning every year it is about having a shot to win every year
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
The last question in the roundtable opened this discussion.
“How do you all see ACC schools competing with schools in the SEC and Big 12 for recruits?”
It’s a legitimate response to that question to discuss where FSU stands nationally. No hijack.
The hijack of this thread was all of our tv conversation.
Miss State, Ole Miss, and S. Carolina have much weaker talent bases
Thats the second part of the “Tier” equation
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 8, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
You must admit
It has been a long time since recruits looked at our depth chart and bolted. This will take some getting used to.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
When I saw the chart, I didn't think ours was much better than most of the other classes.
Then I read the article and the “bottom 10” and looked at the chart again. Made a huge difference in impression.
Am I missing something?
Everyone is talking about how much money we don’t have, and how we are Tier 3 to the likes of UF, UT, USC, Bama bla bla bla.
I get it we will NEVER be as wealthy and UF, UT, Bama. We will never be the #1 school in FL. We will never be tier 1.
So what?
We HAVE enough money to be #1 in the ACC. We have a great talent base to be #1 in the ACC and with coaching compete with UF. We don’t have to ever play UT, USC or Bama unless its for the national championship. Meanwhile UF and Bama will have to go through each other to get to title games. USC will most likely suffer from some sort of probation and UCLA is beginning to move in the right direction along with other PAC 10 teams to make their road to NC harder. Texas will always have OU and maybe Nebraska to hold them back. We get a shot at UF every year and although they may get the #1 recruiting class we can get top 5 and compete with them as long as we keep good coaches around.
So we do have an easier road to National Championships than most of the big money schools, besides Ohio State, but they have proven incapable of competing when they get there and since they don’t have a title game I see us with win over UF and ACCCG jumping them any time we are both in the discussion. With National Championship appearances and wins we will get enough money to dominate the ACC and have plenty of exposure to keep recruits interested. I think Jimbo has seen this and that’s why he stuck around. If you get the kind of recruiters that we have to run the State of Miami (even with a mere 7-6 record and half a staff) and you start putting up 10 win seasons, which will happen as soon as Jimbo can fix our scheduling, we will be in the picture for BSC NC every year even if we are not “tier 1”.
Sorry if its the optimist in me that makes me blind but I do think that our location, weaker conference, and great current coaching staff can keep us competing for BCS year in and year out.
by BS37FSU on Feb 8, 2010 3:23 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
I agree
We do have a lot a favorable winds blowing in our direction. And if we can get hyped up and beat UF and win the ACC every year or two, we can stay in the BCS, the limelight, and in 18 year olds heads.
by freshcollegeboy on Feb 8, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
not the least of which is that we are
becoming the media darlings once again!!!!!
yippee
So do I
Perception can change rapidly if and when FSU wins the ACC beats a SEC champion UF in the season finale and plays for a national championship. Such a situation also will spur recruiting and slow up losing recruits to Gainesville.
We were getting most of whoever we wanted in the 90’s. I do recall Spurrier publicly complaining about how FSU could possibly recruit five highschool All Americans at one position and convince them all they would play.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Damn Bud your being negative today lol.
I see where you are coming from though, I would be scared too if UGA hired someone like Smart. We seem to own the South Ga area now for some reason. Is Richt a bad recruiter? What is the deal there?
Re: coaching. Here is what needs to happen.
A) Les Miles gets fired at the end of this upcoming season
2) Smart goes to LSU and resurrects the progam
D) Richt wins 10 games, one of which is the UF game
Then
A) LSU becomes more relevant and possibly beats UF every couple of years and then Jimbo to LSU becomes a moot point
2) Georgia fan continue thinking Richt is one player, one play, or one game away and we keep stealing GA recruits.
D) Jimbo is a happy camper and stays at FSU indefinitely or at least until the NFL comes calling.
This would be my perfect scenario.
I am probably wrong, but I have my doubts Jimbo would go to the NFL. Again, I am probably wrong.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Add on..
A) Miami struggles going 5-7 but beats USF
2) USF collapses again in the 2nd half of the season, culminating in that end of season loss to bowl-ineligible Miami
D) Or, if 2) does not occur, USF wins the Big East and Holtz is a one-and-done and replaces a retiring Paterno at Penn State
No Jimbo to LSU
a) Wife’s family is closer to tally than baton rouge
2)Bonuses for ACCG & BCS > LSU base salary which he will be like clockwork very soon, Phat raise
d) Loved FSU since forever
IV) Won’t make kids move around
It would have to purely be a money grab because
I see his best chance of winning consistently and playing in a BCS bowl games at FSU. The path is easier at ACC vs. the SEC where he would have to go through Alabama, UF, UGA, Tenn to win the SEC or get an at large.
Jimbo's sentimental too bite for 2 more MIL
After the state tax thing, raise, restructured bonus (profit sharing if you will), double sounds like a reach. Unless you’re convinced (and I haven’t caught up on all the threads here yet) that LSU has THAT much to spend. The difference b/t 4 & 6 MIL may not outweigh his dedication. He seems senitmental enough to plant some serious family roots in Tally. Losing and/or abrasive boosters would have to wear him down 1st and neither seem likely.
Sorry, should have hit reply
and subject should’ve been Jimbo is too sentimental to, not sentimental too. Anyway, a fixture in the ACCG will equalize the SEC TV time thing. i don’t think i’m being a blind optimist which I had been during the lost decade. Gut feeling is he’s here for the long haul and things are gonna be good for a long time. FINALLY… We’re fresh off NCAA issues and the character that’s here won’t allow that to happen like it will w/in 3 years with FU’s thugs.
Maybe
I don’t know. Could FSU pay anyone 4 million a year? Is the money there? I do recall reading here the booster saying if Fisher did not get the DC of his choice it would not be because FSU lost a bidding war.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Not base but with bonuses probably
If we win, booster money should surge even more then it is. Still bowden loving skeptics with their checkbooks out but waiting.. But then again he might dictate new money go into the infrastructure early on. Indoor practice fields, new player’s dorm, even better nutritionists, and other saban recommended program building causes. At least until after new facilities are built and there’s excess dough coming in with less to spend – then he’ll say pay up and sitting pretty with young Fisher ready to be FSU’s QB.
4 mil before or after a BCS championship?
If we are routinely in BCS bowls and have won a title I can see him getting 4 mil from FSU. Don’t know if FSU goes 4 mil without a BCS title in his back pocket.
by osceolafan850 on Feb 8, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
2.5 mil base after winning 2 straight ACCCGs and 1 trip to BCSCG
SEC should start beating each other up again so it won’t take long to get to BCSCG. 3 mil base after winning one. 4 (after bonus) everytime he wins another. I’m pretty low on the booster totem pole and i’m just throwing these numbers out there based on fair market vs available funds. But after 2 great seasons the funds will jump again. The pro-bowden people (which is not me) will concede right around the time the econonmy turns around (which I think will be after this Nov’s elections :-). Just a gut feeling. And no I don’t have any lottery numbers or stock tips to suggest. Just my 2 cents.
Not a step function
but a steady increase in funds. That’s not breaking news.. Anyway, there’s a lot of pissed off alum not forking it over yet. But if that NSD signing day part is any indication, JF & co will sell this program which will sell itself shortly bringing the mad cash in and JF will get his cut, but like you said, after he’s proven he’s worthy, which we all know he will.
If Jimbo finds a better job/offer, which currently includes LSU, he should take it.
That is the point of a career; to take up opportunities for advancements. I agree LSU is a better situation than FSU is right now. LSU has an entire state to themselves. They are already stocked with talent on their roster. Their coach may be a fraud, but their player development is light years ahead of what was going on here during the ‘lost decade’.
All I care is that Jimbo stockpiles quality talent here and teaches the players well, during his tenure no matter how short or long it is.
I don’t understand all the hand-wringing about how LSU is destined to pick our pockets
and steal Jimbo away from FSU. FSU’s current program has made a quantum leap since December. The current staff is not only state-of-the-art "process" leaders, they are excellent X and O coaches, some of the most "high energy" young leaders in the college game, and as a whole, are some of the best recruiters in the nation. LSU’s recent resurgence can be attributed to their unique brand of strength and conditioning training. FSU recognized this, and hired a key disciple of LSU’s renowned S&C system. FSU is getting players "off their back," as we are implementing a radically improved type of pro-style functional training, specific to each athlete’s specific performance requirement. As far as tradition, how can you say LSU’s is better than FSU’s? Let’s don’t forget that FSU got stuck with a terrible 6-year consecutive-year contract to play LSU in Baton Rouge in the 1980’s. FSU whipped LSU like they were Duke, 5 out of 6 games we played them!
I think the issue is more about the time frame rather than FSU versus LSU.
No doubt we were better than LSU in the 80s. I was too young to see these games, but I remember people older than me telling me about how everyone was scared to play LSU at night because of the “strange things happen at LSU during the night” aura. Yet, the Noles were not phased by that stuff.
I believe the Jimbo to LSU vs. FSU situation is predicated on Miles getting canned within the next three years. We are just now implementing the overhaul of our program. LSU has been doing the things we are now implementing for the last decade. If you look at strength and conditioning alone; let us assume that our new S&C program is equivalent to LSU’s for argument sake. It will take us 3-4 years to field players that look like LSU’s. The tigers have seniors and rs juniors that have already spent 3-4 years in an elite S&C program. It will take at least another good recruiting class to build the type of quality depth that already exists at LSU. So for the next couple of years LSU will be in a better position than FSU. It will be easier for Fisher to elevate a program that is at critical mass than to build FSU to critical mass and then elevate our program.
As far as tradition, I love our Noles, but the tigers have 2 BCS trophies from this decade. Their name is more synonomous with success than ours. Now as it was discussed above Florida may produce more elite athletes than LA. However, LSU gets exclusive rights to the LA players. We have to fight and claw to get what we can. We are not in a bad position, but compared to LSU it is less favorable. Then if UGA gets a good coach who starts to give us problems in South Georgia, our position becomes less favorable. LSU also can sell the SEC brand that ESPN has brainwashed our nation with.
Now things might change a lot within the next three years. Miles could stay, UGA gets stuck in mud, UM president ok with 8-9 wins and no ACCCG, Myer joins a cult…. FSU gets to a BCS bowl for consecutive years then roles could be reversed. However, there are a lot of “ifs” and it is more likely that some of these situations go against our favor.
I agree that LSU is presently better equipped to win NOW
Provided Miles is gone within the next year or so. Due to his obvious shortcomings as a coach, and the fact LSU’s hold over Louisiana talent has showed weakness in the past few years. That may be for the best, seeing how Miles seems to enjoy mis-managing talent. I know people like to have foresight and like to anticipate things happening before they actually occur. But lets see Jimbo prove himself as a viable coaching commidity before we send him off to LSU with that 5 year 30 million deal.
Excellent points in regards to the S&C aspect. LSU has benefitted greatly from coach Moffit and his system. I think player development is something people have been neglecting to mention in terms of how important it is in our hopefull ascent. But even though LSU players have been in that system for years, our top end talent (Especially on D) has outperformed LSU alumni in the pros for the most part. Has LSU produced an Ernie Sims? At this point, would anyone ever think Glenn Dorsey would ever be able to produce at the level of a Darnell Dockett?
On LSU’s national title team (2007) They had defensive lineman such as Kirston Pittman, Dorsey, Francois, and Tyson Jackson. The only LB I can think of is Ali Highsmith, and their secondary consisted of Chevis Jackson,Zenon, Jones, and Harry Coleman. FSU can counter with lost decade defenders such as Dockett, Travis Johnson, Brod Bunkley, Lawrence Timmons, Kamerion Wimbley, Sims, and Geno Hayes (who was a runt in Tally), Bryant McFadden, Antonio Cromartie. I know our guys are a bit older and have had more of a chance to prove themselves. But has Chad Lavalis had the impact of Dockett or Bunkley? Marcus Spears has done okay (God bless MH) , but no LSU linebacker has had the impact of a Sims or Wimbley (Hayes is only 22 and will be a big contributor for the Bucs IMO). I know Chevis Jackson gets playing time, but Tony Carter has had more impact than Zenon at this point (And Alfonso Smith evidentallly, smirk)
Measuring defensive back contemporaries: McFadden and Cromartie have performed better than the LSU trio of Webster, Daniels, and Randall Gay I believe. I say all that to say Jimbo has to be intrigued by the chance of working with and developing the high caliber athletes FSU can still attract. That athleticism combined with proper coaching and strength and conditioning has a high end payoff at the end. If Jimbo didn’t believe that, I don’t think he would still be here. Even the grand pessimist himself FSUn has said he really likes the amount of athletes we have on D. A big drawback at FSU is the constant recruiting competition there is for that talent. IMHO he will depart for greener pastures (NFL I believe).But he will have to restore FSU to a degree of national relevance to get what he ultimately wants. This is his first HC job and he’s too young not to have ambitions past FSU. You made good points that I hadn’t thought of before about S&C for certain though
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 9, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Good point about our talent cealing in FL possibly being higher than LA.
We do have a ton more people to select from in FL. I think it is import to remember that when we recruited the guys you mentioned our recruiting classes looked more like the current Texas and UF classes.
Now if we start pulling in 6, 5* kids and double digit numbers of 4* kids in one recruiting class like we did in 2002, then I’ll reevaluate everything I said. Jimbo probably finds it favorable to stay at FSU, much more favorable.
Just not true.
Now as it was discussed above Florida may produce more elite athletes than LA. However, LSU gets exclusive rights to the LA players. We have to fight and claw to get what we can. We are not in a bad position, but compared to LSU it is less favorable.
Going back to 2007, LSU only signs about 55% of the 4/5* players out of Louisiana. The last 3 years they’ve landed 7 each year out of about 12 per year. That’s anything but “exclusive”.
This past year, with only half of a staff and a lousy past 4 years, we recruited 8 recruits out of Florida that were 4/5*. That was out of 50 possible. I think our recruiting base is more favorable than theirs.
Good points about LSU.
Using rivals we have 10, 5* or 4 * players. Assume UGA and UM get decent coaches. Using rivals Telvin, Harris, Luc, and LJ are originally from areas that we would be in danger loosing ground on because of the previously mentioned schools. That leaves us with 6 of the 10 left. It was awesome that we got the Christians, but we can’t rely on legacy/pseudolegacy kids each year. That leaves us with 4, 5*or 4* kids we would be guaranteed to get. That is a lot less than the the 7, 5* or 4* LA kids LSU has locked.
Now I think even with the good coaches at UM and UGA we should be able to pull 1/4 of the kids we are battling for so you might bump up our count from 4 to 5 or even 6. But then you have to account for LSU’s ability to go into TX and Miss to pull 5*and 4* kids. Thus LSU has a better shot of ensuring the pipeline of elite talent.
I know I only used this year as an example but it illustrates the problematic scenario we might be faced with. I think we could still be very good in the ACC, but we would have a harder time achieving what LSU could if they maxed out their potential.
I wondered how long it would take before someone gets everyone on the edge of their seats trying to get Jimbo a raise at our emotional expense.
is there a purpose to causing alarm?
No
Jimbo’s opportunities for long-term success are better at FSU. He can average 10-wins a year here. If he coached to Bowden’s age (not saying he should or would want to), he’d have the career wins record. Every year LSU faces Bama, Auburn, Ark., UF, and the other occasionally good SEC teams. It would be a real struggle to win the SEC title on a regular basis.
FSU’s most consistent divisional rival figures to be Clemson. Who knows what VT will do after Beamer leaves. UM could very well be our primary roadblock to relatively frequent ACC titles and BCS bowls. The right coach can have UNC, GT, etc. playing well for brief time periods, but none have proven able to maintain greatness consistently over an extended period. Yet, the ACC is now a solid conference, so you can’t really pooh-pooh it (I’ve seen stats posted around TN about FSU’s highly-rated schedule over the last few years).
Jimbo may want to go to LSU if given the opportunity – he’s been there, he may have liked it. But I don’t think it offers him a better career opportunity. FSU has proven it can be the breeding ground of a Hall of Fame coaching career – and I think Jimbo would be hard-pressed to find a better overall situation.
Oh, plus the point of a career is to find something you enjoy doing and get paid to do. If Jimbo is happy in Tallahassee, he should stay there. If not, he should look for “advancement” until he is happy. Jobs are like relationships: a new option might look better on paper, but in reality it just might not be a good fit. Find a place where you’re happy, and you can accomplish great things. Personally, I hope Jimbo and his family are happy in Tallahassee.
I agree with you that his path with LSU would be tougher than with FSU.
However, I look at it like this: He may have bigger battles in the SEC but he will have protected resources to do battle with. Miles despite his poor decisions that are costing them games is still able to haul in instate recruits and some from TX. If Jimbo does as good as Miles or better he should be able to protect his recruiting territory despite bama and Texas being good and in close proximity. Now FSU has an easier path in the ACC but in the worst case scenario: 1) UGA gets Smart/Mushchamp and we get cut off from the elite recruits in South Gerorgia, 2) UM gets a real coach we have problems with the south FL pipeline. With our remaining territory we still have other wolves to fend off. We are then left to north Fl which might be fine but we can’t keep bama and clemson from coming in and taking guys like richardson and barnes. We are at risk for multiple teams coming in and taking different parts of our territorial base. It is not like we are just fighting one school.
FSU did produce a Hall of Fame coach, but I think the conditions which allowed this to happen do not currently exist. Otherwise that hall of fame coach would probably be still here.
I do not know what Jimbo defines ‘happiness’ as. Perhaps FSU makes him happy and he will stay.
I would normally agree with FSU > LSU as a path to success
However, LSU won the nat champ with THREE losses! That is the strength of the SEC, you can (and often do) lose one game in conference and still have the chance to win a nat champ. For every Auburn going 13-0 and getting snubbed, there’s an LSU (who lost to Auburn that year) UF (lost to LSU, lost to Ole Miss) that has at least one loss in conference and still has enough meat on their schedule to win Nat Champs.
While I’m divided over whether FSU is better for Jimbo than LSU in the long run, there is no question that you can succeed in SEC at one of I’d say six schools (LSU, Bama, Auburn, UF, UGA, UT) and compete for Nat Champs.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 9, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
No, the point is to be happy and fulfilled.
Man this place is getting depressing with all the talk about how every other school is better than FSU, and FSU can’t compete, and FSU is doomed because of this and that, wah, wah, wah. I get being realistic and not being a homer, but good grief, it can go too far. Some of the statements here about FSU’s position in the CFB world and future prospects for success are based purely on speculation but reported as absolute certainties. Puh Lease. When I read threads like this it makes me want to stay away from this site. Not because I don’t want to hear the “truth” but because it is a lot of baseless negativism.
There is a lot talk about all the inherent advantages Alabama has, and how they are advantages FSU can never overcome. C-R-A-P.
Bama has always had a lot of money yet they sucked for years after Stallings and before Saban got there. What did their money get them then? It is all about the coach they got. Not their money or “tier” or any of that crap. It is Saban. Auburn has almost as much money as Bama. So What? They had Tommy Tuberville and it got them nothing.
I appreciate Bud lives in Tuscaloosa and is in thick of Bama country but HE has only been there in the Saban era as Bama was peaking. I was born there and went to school there for four years. The only reason Bama is back on top now is because of SABAN…money had nothing to do with it other than they had the money to pay Saban what he wanted to come there.. When Saban leaves and if Bama does not replace him with an equal coaching talent then they will go right back to where they were….like LSU and Les Miles.
So lets not give up the ship and relegate FSU to nothingness and “also ran” status. There are too many variables that come into play besides money (which seems to be the main ingredient for a programs success in Buds (and others) P.O.V). A HS recruit doesnt look at Forbes list of how much money a school’s athletic department has when making a choice.
Success depends on 2 main things: coaching acumen (ability to develop talent and turn it into success on the filed on gameday)and the coaching staffs ability to get top talent. PERIOD. whan a program has those two factors it doesnt matter how much “money” a program has. Where money has a bearing on tthose 2 factors is up for debate.
Bama sucked because they made poor head coaching hires
primarily because they had to get one of Bear’s boys, no?
EXACTLY..but you admit that all of Bama's money and tradtion and recruiting base
got them NOTHING between Stallings and Saban. It was the COACHING that made the difference (hiring Bears Boys is irrelevant: if a coach in incompetent he is incompetent, no matter his lineage/tutelage). It has been your refrain (and others) that FSU lacks what other schools like Bama possess that put them at the “Top of the Foodchain”; primarily MONEY. What if Saban had told bama “no thanks”? Would they necessarily be where they are today? MAYBE…but not CERTAINLY. It all depends on the coach they would have hired.
It is ALL Coaching and Talent. It does not necessarily mean that the schools with the most money will always have the best coaching or be able to sign the best talent. It helps pay for the best coaching, true. But paying a coach a lot of money doesn’t make him the best. Saban happens to be one of the best and bama is reaping the fruits of his ability. good for them…for now.
FSU has great coaches and the ability to land top talent to win championships…recruits dont look at our balance sheet before putting on our cap on signing day.
by Egret on Feb 9, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cannot argue with resources arguement
The SEC schools are just better equipped from a financial standpoint and there’s nothing to be done about that. They can simply pay more $ than any other conference. UM on the other hand, is a wounded duck waiting to be shot, damn near. The fact that they have no money (Can’t afford to hire a great coach or build great facilities) and the stricter academic guidelines imposed by Donna Shalala inherently cuts them off from a lot of local talent. SoFla can be an FSU stronghold if we are to make inroads in Miami, keep TC HS as our PBC feeder school, while keeping a strong presence in the muck. That should give us a good enough supply of SoFla talent to work with. Thats easier said than done, but thats a fight we have to win most times.
We can ill afford to get into firefights with UGA in SoGa IMO. We have to save those for the kids who are considering both FSU and UF. That will tax the staff enough. So if UGA does hire a coach that can cut off the SoGa area, we indeed may be screwed in that regard.
by westcoastnolefan on Feb 9, 2010 1:55 AM EST reply actions
MMM... I could go for some roasted duck right now.
I agree SoFla is going to be key for us, more than ever if the UGA thing plays out against us. It would be nice if we could some how facilitate the fighting between UGA and UF. But I think UGA would come after our guys first… easier target.
LSU is Fading, their run is over… and it’s not primarily Les Miles’ fault
LSU had a good run in four of five years between 2003 – 2007…and although Jimbo Fisher’s offensive genius had a lot to do with LSU’s successful run, the fact the LSU was fortunate-enough to catch BOTH Alabama and UF simultaneously slumping, had more to do with LSU’s sudden but short-lived rise than anything else. But now, since both Alabama and UF have regained their footing, LSU will continue to be an afterthought on both the national scene and inside the SEC. In the last two years LSU’s opponents have hung back-to-back five and four loss seasons. They have not won a single game against UF, Alabama or Ole Miss, for gosh sakes, in the last two years. Now with a rising Auburn, LSU will likely drop even further. Let’s be real, LSU was a flash in the pan and their run is over. FSU has LSU’s Offensive Coordinator responsible for transforming their traditionally mundane offense (20 ppg the year before Jimbo arrived), into a high-octane championship offense, averaging over 30 points in his six years there. Replacing Les Miles will not tilt the scales back to LSU’s favor with the heavy headwinds of the recent Tide and Gator surges. Not even Jimbo could save them.
I strongtly disagree
They have the resources
They have the talent pool
Now all they need is the leadership
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
LSU has Nothing that Tennessee or Georgia Doesn't Have
You could say the same about a number of schools. Heck, all FSU lacked in the past 10 years was leadership or we may have been able to add another 2 or 3 national titles. LSU will fade into irrelevance with or without Les Miles.
Um.... don't group Tennessee with them. The available talent is not the same.
FSU lacks cash. They don’t have it.
I agree/disagree
LSU was fortunate in their timing, but the main component in their success was Nick Saban. I don’t see them making a serious run at a championship in the near future. Texas already has a pretty strong recruiting presence in LA, and I just don’t think Miles is a great coach. LSU fans now have their expectations a bit beyond where they should be. They have perennialy been an also ran in the SEC, and Saban changed that. He’s gone, and while I don’t think they’ll return to mediocre status, I also don’t see them regaining elite status either. I must say, that I’m surprised to see so much on here about you guys being afraid to lose Jimbo. In my dealings with most FSU fans, the verdict is still out on him as a coach, so I guess I just think it’s a little premature to worry about him leaving for more money elsewhere…