Jimbo Fisher Press Conference News & Notes
by Bud Elliott on Mar 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT
in FSU Football
456 comments
I picked through Coach Jimbo Fisher's presser to find interesting notes. Spring practice starts tomorrow. There was a lot of fluff and coachspeak.
* Air Force begged out of its contract with FSU for the 2011 and 2012 games. That's great news because FSU was going to drop them anyhow. This is great news. Now FSU can schedule a home game that will make money for the program. I suggest North Texas. FSU's 2011 home schedule looks like this Home - Oklahoma, Maryland, NC State, Miami, Virginia, easy win at home allowing program to make some money like every other major program does. Away - Clemson, Florida, Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College. Even adding 2 cupcakes, that is one of the nation's toughest schedules.
* Fisher is going to throw the entire playbook at the defense. They will not be holding anything back and will roll with the players who are willing to put in the time to study and work hard.
* Ponder is throwing 130 balls per day and is his rehab is going very well. He will participate significantly.
* Demonte McAllister will see time at both defensive end and tackle. Fisher said he needs to get bigger no matter the position he plays. Inexcusable not to maximize that frame. McAllister in the 260s, he's a guy that is going to play inside and outside. We're going to get guys in different spots. Football is a situational game, it really has become that.
* Said Hicks was in the 250-260 range, a guy that can do multiple things, take his hand off the ground if he has to. But he is inconsistent right now with his effort, but he's getting there. Says he will be a good player off the edge as a DE with his hand on the ground, great lower body explosion.
* Said Brandon Jenkins was definitely that guy who can do a lot of stuff versatility wise, can definitely take his hand off the ground if he needs to (alluding to multiple fronts, and his future after college). Says he's going to be a great player but he needs to get bigger.
* Said that we are going to play with bigger DEs (duh!) "when you got a TE out there maybe 250, and you put a guy on top of him thats 270-280 and he can't block him and that guy can set the edge you know thats something that is really helpful." That should end speculation over what coach Eliot said last week.
* JUCOs Debrale Smiley and Anthony "Amp" McCloud have both come in and got their body right. Guys are learning to eat, its nutrition, these guys don't eat and they are just learning that and getting in the weight room and learning to lift right too.
* When asked about using Bobby Bowden's tower, Fisher said no and that he would be coaching, on the field. Seems to me like he thought the idea of standing in a tower and not coaching was ridiculous.
* The defense is getting the mental conditioning now just as the offense has the last two seasons, and the defense will now practice at a tempo equal to that of the offense. And the tempo for both will increase from where it was last year.
* CJF is pleased that the guys are buying in to the 4th-quarter program.
* The coaches will be working much longer hours, specifically the defensive coaches.
* As always, Fisher loves Rodney Smith and Willie Haulstead and expects them to have big off-seasons.
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Wait, the defensive players didn't do the mental conditioning last year?
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Pride
if they allowed it, it would be conceding that something was wrong and that Fisher might have the solution.
So what would they have said was the reason the offense had to do it?
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Mental conditioning would have accomplished very little, IMO
Coaching the defense was their biggest issue, in which they failed at miserably (in several aspects).
His real idea was to let Jeff 'coach' until 2012 or later.
After threatening to quit when Jeff was mercifully put down, he reluctantly agreed to act like a paid employee for a moment. Enter Jimbo.
The way I've always heard it was that Bobby "signed off" on Jimbo.
I don’t think he would ever address his retirement if he wouldn’t have been forced to.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 16, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
He took the kids to Diamond Dolls for quarter wing night.
The strip club was closed, so he begrudgingly drove them next door to Boston Market instead.
What a healthy dinner for the family! Great idea, Dad!!!
Great analogy!
Of COURSE people say that Bobby “signed off” on Jimbo. What the hell else are they gonna say? Bobby’s not on board with it…Coach Bowden would like to have gone a different direction…Bobby will coach or be fired?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It was mentioned several times
That BB wanted a buyout of Jimbo and that even during the 2008 season he would refer to “the offensive coach” and not Jimbo by name.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I did not know that.
But am not surprised. Any idiot that saw the events as they transpired would know that ol’ Bobby wasn’t down with Jimbo.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the recap.
Tried to watch online but it didn’t work for me…
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Standing in a tower isnt coaching?
You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
McAllister
has the best frame of anyone on the entire team. Widest shoulders of any one player. And he’s not even close to being filled out. If he can keep his quickness and agility, he was meant to play at 285ish.
absolutely agree, from the day he stepped on campus I was impressed with his frame
365 days, until I change my ways.
"Seems to me like he thought the idea of standing in a tower and not coaching was ridiculous."
Preposterous!
Regarding Schedule
I am still surprised at a number of people I have chatted with recently that prefer a tough schedule. This article needs to be sent to all FSU fans and burnt into their minds…
Why would we play a tough schedule when we've been ill equipped to play one?
Thats what I would ask. Plus, it’s a helluva lot easier to sell a 9-10 win team to recruits as opposed to a 6-7 win team. We need to get to that level ASAP
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 15, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a hell of a lot easier to win national championships.
That’s what I care about.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
The argument for tough schedule also goes based on conference though
Unless there are drastic changes in other ACC teams soon the ACC will still look weak.
Notice the Trojans did not lose tons of games before last year, but one loss was enough to keep them out of national titles do to the perception of the PAC 10. Meanwhile LSU won a title with two losses not long ago based on the perceived strength of the SEC.
FSU is not in the PAC 10, much less the SEC. Other than the BIg East perhaps, the ACC is looked at as the weakest major conference. People make jokes that the WAC and MAC are better.
That is why some still believe FSU needs a strong schedule.
Agreed.
A top 5/10 FSU, a top 15ish VT/Miami and top 25 GT/Clemson/BC/UNC and the ACC is fine. We’ve had multiple top 25’ers the past few years. We just lack that marquee team to lead the conference.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Yeah, but who are the other good teams going to be consistently?
Virginia Tech has looked like a consistent top ACC team, but loses big OOC games or barely wins them against teams like Cincinnati.
Remember how Texas beat Oklahoma a couple of years ago but Oklahoma but Ok won the three way tie for the conference and played for the national title? Didn’t the weaker OOC schedule Texas play, thus their overall ranking, have something to do with that?
We need to crawl before we walk. We're barely breaking .500
Before we even think about playing for a NC we have to increase (restock) our talent level and make sure they receive good coaching to ensure they play at optimum level first. Having UF always on our schedule give the pollsters a fairly accurate way to guage the present quality of the program.
Dumbing down the schedule accomplishes two things: It allows us at least two more wins per year and in turn decreases the amount of negative recruiting being thrown our way. A lot of fans want it both ways: They want a difficult schedule but get angry when the staff has problems selling a .500 program to recruits.
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 15, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The odds of that doomsday scenario happening are?
There were 4 ACC teams in the top 25 to end last season…
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Um
UNC, GTech, Miami, Clemson, VTech are an extremely strong crop.
No, Texas’ weaker schedule did not have anything to do with that. It had everything to do with OU’s blowout of Texas Tech being fresh in the voter’s minds.
OU had all the syle points
From scoring 60+ in 5 or 6 six straight games and UT lost late. I disagreed with OU jumping TX but oh well.
Despite VT’s inability to win the big ones they are usually highly ranked as is GT and Miami. Even if there’s a revolving door for the fourth top 25 ACC team, that makes the conference good enough to not hold down a 1-2 loss FSU.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't seem like that to me
The conference had two 10 win teams last year, and a handful of 8 and 9 win teams, and I think a lot of people still think of the ACC as one of the weaker BCS conferences, if not the weakest.
If Clemson, the team that won our division, had won one additional game, we would have had 3 10 win teams, and I still think people would view the ACC as a whole, as weak.
by IndyFSUnole on Mar 16, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
And that one of those 10 win teams is in the title hunt
That seems to be the biggest knock on the ACC: A lot of good/above average teams but not a dominant squad in the bunch.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The ACC is solid
But no great teams to raise the profile. Losing big OOC games hurts appearances, too. But, I think we are deeper than many other conferences. Going undefeated in the ACC wouldn’t have the same impact as doing that in the SEC, but I think it’d be enough in most years. After all, we’ve had strong schedule rankings over the past few years – and attentive people notice that (if not the typical viewer).
We've really lacked the BAD teams over the past few years
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Great point
Although, Duke and UVA’s ugly losses to I-AA (or thereabouts) teams give the impression to the typical viewer that we have had those BAD teams.
I do think the ACC is solid, top to bottom. Reading other sites, though, I’m not sure everyone else quite makes the connection since we: 1) have no great teams (hurt by OOC, BCS losses); 2) have had teams lose to Richmond, William & Mary.
I think the ACC is considered weak all over the country, for a couple of different reasons.
A.) Bad OOC losses (as invicted alluded to)
2.) Bad BCS record
D.) Percieved “Elite” teams struggling and top teams inconsistency (VaTech, Clemson, and GT)
Gamma) I really think that some casual fans still see Duke, Wake, Marlyand, NC State as either BBall schools or the ACC of old, ignoring the fact that they are in fact as good (if not better) than the bottom half of most other conferences.
Magenta) FSU vs UF. Their dominance over us doesn’t help matters.
With that being said, it’s plenty strong enough when you factor in UF at the end of the year. We’ve discussed this at length.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Look how eager the media is to crown someone as "back"
Bama SI cover in 2008 after beating Clemson
Miami after going 3-1 to open last season.
I expect FSU to start 4-1 or 5-0. That will create a lot of buzz and even if we finish 3-4 down the stretch, the media will say we made huge steps this year.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
What was more preposterous, the media claiming Miami was “back”? or claiming Jacory Harris was a serious Heisman contender…
I wish I had the time to find some of those sportswriters who adopted Harris as the second coming of Vinny Testarverde.
idiots.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if we do find ourselves finishing 3-4, as proposed above?
Or will it be a "they started the season so well…everyone thought this was the year….Jimbo Fisher had them playing so well at the beginning of the year…blah blah blah?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No, see Miami 2009
Everyone remembers the start
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone?
or just us, because they’re our rival and beat us at the beginning of the year?
The consensus isn’t the same as it was at the beginning of the season. They aren’t “back”, anymore.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I disagree. They are top 10 to start the year in some polls.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
Well, that validates the argument for how completely meaningless and inept pre-season polls are.
However, I guess perception assists Miami’s chances at a National Championship, should we be wrong about their status, so I guess that winning a couple of games against teams who turned out to be VERY mediocre at the beginning of the year DOES work…
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Miami has a chance to be good this year
They have all that talent from their top 5 recruiting class with a couple years of experience. However, if they don’t pick up their recruiting of late, this may be their last hurrah.
by basbalstr101 on Mar 16, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe...just for giggles I glanced at some top 25 polls
and Miami averages anywhere from 12-21…about where they were last year. Every poll is asking, “Is Miami Back?!” so Im under the impression that they weren’t impressive enough at the end of their season.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was partly because last year's Miami game was the 2nd highest rated college football game ever.
They felt compelled to make some Cronkite-esque conclusions.
Much sexier than reality: 2 former greats playing an exciting game, though with obvious issues to correct.
Miami sure as hell isn't "back"
Jacory is a good quarterback, especially as a soph. starter and a dropback passer in the era of the spread. It pains me to say that considering how much I hate the Canes.
The media however always has a tendency to annoit a team pre-maturely. But can they ever tell you WHY a certain team is “Back” after a good start? No of course. But once again, ESPN can afford to make proclamations due to the fact they aren’t emotionally invested into any situation and in the end will never be held accountable for not doing their homework
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 16, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter what we idiot fans think...
Just as Bud pointed out, sportswriters still stuck on Miami’s smoke-and-mirrors 2009 start has given them a distinct advantage in 2010.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If Fortson doesn't drop that damned pass
I certainly hope we can beat those idiots this year. I am SOOO tired of their fans.
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 16, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yuuup...
Unfortunate. Especially when Mike Bianchi’s drivel goes out to so many people.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Under, please.
Score?
UNC 7 LSU 3
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to assume you are
banking on 2 defensive TD’s from UNC, along with a special teams TD?
Neither team matches up well offensively.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really trust UNC to pull it out.
But LSU just hasn’t been that good the past few years. Their offense is a joke and their head coach is a moron.
I’m thinking 16-9 LSU.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
If I had to seriously guess...
I think LSU is a little better. NC not there yet.
17-14 LSU
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Bama 2007
They started well (6-2) and faded (1-4) but the prevailing thought was that Nick had his foundation.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
2 years later that foundation leads to National Championship
I think prevailing thought was correct on that one.
D.) Percieved "Elite" teams struggling and top teams inconsistency (VaTech, Clemson, and GT
I don’t think these are the perceived elite teams. I think the perceptions is:
FSU, Miami
VT
Clemson
GT
Need to have the name teams be on top.
10 win FSU >>>> 10 win GTech, fairly or unfairly.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Us or Miami
And I think you can throw Clemson in there with us and Miami as well. Lotta media love.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely wouldn't put Clemson near our level
on “name recognition”. Been close to 25 years since they’ve won anything?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
No, but I think the media would go beserk over an undefeated Clemson team...
They’d be quick to give them the “finally over the hump status”.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they'd do that if VT, GT, UNC, BC, etc went undefeated, too.
I don’t think the nation/media think of Clemson as different than those other 4.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Can you imagaine the ACC Coach of the Year award goes to
DABO
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
We play an OOC schedule every year
that includes the Florida Gators. That is plenty of strength of schedule.
Stop it. U sound like a Gate.
No need to stoop to their level. That is not FSU. Never has been. We will be good enough to dominate any OOC soon. We don’t need 8 home games, not leave our stadium in 20 years, & play 3 HS teams every year. That is them, not us. Some of the best Nole games & memories ever were OOC regular season power games. Why lower our standards to try to back our way in to a NC game like them? That is not our style. Bama played Va Tech last year & Penn St this year. I’m sooo pumped about this OU game in 10/11! USF last year was the biggest sell-out at Doak since the 05 Miami game. Games like that are fun for our players & our fans. I hope we don’t play some bs HS teams every year like the turds!
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
We don't need to "lower our standards to try to back our way in to a NC title game" like UF?
I don’t care how we get to a NC game. “Our style” is an outdated method of doing it, especially since we already have the name brand that we don’t need to take that anyone, anywhere mentality. Give me a NC with some wins over lower FBS teams than a 8-10 win season in which we kill ourselves with scheduling.
by basbalstr101 on Mar 16, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Just because its been awhile
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
by RaysnNoles on Mar 16, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
At this point, those numbers
aren’t going to change the minds of those who are stuck in the 90’s. It’s an obstinate way of thinking, and those individuals can’t be helped. What they don’t realize is that altering the schedule is the most efficient way of returning to the status they so desperately want.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
When we won in the ACC by an average of 20 points it made sense to schedule tuff OOC – and it will make sense if we start to do that again – but for now – easing up a bit is reasonable – although I don’t consider Air Force a tough game. Guess they got scare we wouldn’t suck anymore
That 20 point thing won't happen
Any non-conference game which has the chance to be a loss is a bad idea. Except for UF
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Making Air Force a bad idea, 93noleman.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Cumulative attrition of travel, competition, and preparation.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone will counter this with a Colorado or BYU argument
without considering that they were both bad ideas to begin with. Fortunately for FSU, it worked out fine (in hindsight)
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If we hadn't played those games
…
Bowden once said you can only get up for 3 or 4 games a year.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
When did he say that?
1989 or 2009?
Bobby said alotta things, but I disagree with that statment. This year’s Alabama team showed tremendous focus IMO. Tennessee almost chipped them, but UT gave all the big boys trouble.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
How many games did Bama get up for?
VTech
Tennessee
Ole Miss
only scheduled games they got up for.
they were flat for Auburn
FIU, North Texas, Chattanooga
Arkansas, Kentucky, were quite bad when Bama played them.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
They still took care of business.
Unlike Florida 2006/2008, LSU 2007, USC 2003.
Bama ran the table. Is that not “up” enough?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Their schedule was quite average
Notice I say schedule. Didn’t schedule UF or Texas
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Bama was up for VT, UF, and TX
That’s it IMO.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Bama had a target on their back...
They completely ass whipped a good Arkansas team, and their defense went into Oxford, MS and whipped an Ole Miss offense who was pretty good by most standards. They also beat an LSU team that is solid, and destroyed a Mississippi State team that UF nearly layed an egg against.
IMO, that’s up enough. EVERYONE was gunning for Bama, and they took care of business.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
When looking ahead, I agree
But looking back is different when talking about which games a team “got up” for.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think the opinion of "getting up" differs.
Probably because our team consistently plays to the level of our competition.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that 3 cup cakes and UF is what we need to be doing, but why...
is Saban scheduling tough OOC games?
by moneyNOLE24 on Mar 16, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Was done when Auburn was looking like it was going down
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Alabama doesn't have an OOC rival like UF does
Granted FSU has been mediocre at best lately UF can claim their one OOC opponent that is not a high school team is the mighty Florida State Seminoles and they get recognition for beating up a high school caliber FSU team. Bama however does not have any OOC rivals (at least not that I know off) so they can schedule one VT / Penn and 3 cupcakes and that equals our UF and 3 cup cakes or UF’s FSU and 3 cupcakes, although lately it has been 4 cupcakes unfortunately.
The USF game had the fans packed in. The place was the most crowded since the 05 Miami game.
Yes we lost & that blows but it happens. The FSU fan base & players were excited to play it. The same when OU comes calling next year. The Michigan, Auburn, Nebraska, Notre Dame etc etc games all mean something & are a lot of fun to go to. I don’t want to give that up. Some of our best times & memories were those games. I can’t wait to mop the floor with those powers again to make new greatest moments in Nole history cut.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
FSU players weren't excited to play it at all.
50K in our stands for a D1-AA is much better than a potentially losable road game. It makes us $3 Million
The reason the stadium was packed in was because everyone bought into the hype
All of the FSU fans were buying into the crap ESPN was feeding them about how FSU and Miami were back because of how great our game was vs Miami and the fact we beat an overrated BYU team.
I thought USF fans sold out their allotment, requested more, and were given more.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Eternal facepalm
Yes we lost & that blows but it happens
And 50% of the teams lose each week as well, right?
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Were you at that game?
I recall it being at least 1/4 USF fans there. They drowned us out in the second half.
by basbalstr101 on Mar 16, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I was
The entire South End Zone and the normal Away section was ALL USF.
25K Bulls in 100 degree heat index. Friggin Disgusting
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Noon games in Florida=disaster
Hopefully we can start pulling in the prime time games again.
by basbalstr101 on Mar 16, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
A) UF is not the only program that does it. It’s they way things are done now for better or worse.
2) As for Bama, if they had to play, say, GT every year (a forgotten but natural rivalry) they would not schedule teams like VT and PSU.
D) The most fun games for players are BCS games specifcally those played for crystal balls.
Coley) There’s a lot more money made being a 10 win team with an extra home game as opposed to .500 team playing road games two time zones away.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Bravo Jay
I’m going a little Rec crazy today, but I gotta give you love here too.
There’s a lot more money made being a 10 win team with an extra home game as opposed to .500 team playing road games two time zones away.
To those that continue to argue….read the Coleyism above and see the truth
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
There's no need to schedule Oklahoma, Florida and BYU in the same year.
Or any 3 ooc games of that caliber. It stupid.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Most definitely agree!
That’s overkill (well, I hope the “kill” part doesn’t get us…)
Just old school
thought still from what I gather from the people I spoke with. I guess they figue the only way for us to be “back” again is to do what we did before – play everyone under the sun in their back yard and prove something. Of course we know it does not work that way anymore. I think in due time this fan base will understand scheduling.
by Florida_State on Mar 15, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but even in that brutal 1981 schedule we played patsies.
Lousville, Memphis, Western Carolina, Southern Miss.
And that was an 11 game schedule with no real “conference” rivalries.
Those folks just remember the 5-game (brutal) road stretch of Nebraska, Ohio State, ND, Pitt, LSU.
Yes, but the real issue is ...
…we played those schedules because WE HAD TO! It was the only way to get on TV and we could never get top teams to come to our place.
It’s like a local candidate doing name recognition ads — we don’t need that anymore. Name-recognition is not the issue — WINNING is the issue.
I completely agree Fsued, I'm just pointing out that memories tend to highlight the memorable.
A lot of the old school fans don’t remember that we played cupcakes back in the day because they remembere the UM games, the UF games, the “King of the Road” games, etc.
Southern Miss a patsy?
They absolutely KICKED our A$$! Still the most humiliating game I’ve witnessed in Doak (though USF was close). Back in the day FSU had some pretty good games with their Metro Conference brethren. Reggie Collier and Sammy Winder made the ’81 defense look positively 2009ish
Yeah, I was wondering about that. Maybe they weren't such a patsy then...
or it was an effect of attrition (or letdown) from having to play that 5-game road schedule.
That was another game with Southern Miss.
They had some QB that no one had ever heard of named of Farve. He beat us like a rented mule. The people from Hattiesburg have had their way with us twice.
Yes 89 game =(
That lost cost us a MNC. We beat Miami & they went on to win another one in 89. Yes I know we had 2 losses but if we beat Favre & Miami, only had the 1 loss, we go to the NC game that year.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
NOLEFAN1
I hope you realize that your Southern Miss comment just completely undid your argument that FSU shouldn’t schedule weak opponents.
Why lower our standards to try to back our way in to a NC game like them?
That lost (Southern Miss) cost us a MNC.
This is all about risk aversion. Even when you have more talent than other teams, other factors come in to play. Take the USF game for example:
A) Mental: let down after huge game the week before at BYU (WR fumbles!) + USF circling this game on their schedule as THE game
2) Physical: Ponder’s bum wheel after BYU game, TP getting knocked out early in the 2nd Qtr.
D) Psychological: Amato trying to outdo Jimbo in pregame, leaving the team a mess before they walk out
Jimbo knows this is about risk aversion and maximizing revenue for the team. He has said as much, follow his lead.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Southern Miss was not a traditional power &...
they got lucky & beat us that year. It happens. We didn’t deserve it in 89. We lost 2 games. I’m proud of our OOC schedule & history. If some of you like the idea of playing 3 HS teams & backing into the #1 ranking like FU, Fine. I don’t. You need to play the best to be the best. God knows we owned so many for so long. They got some payback. That is the ebb & flow of CFB. Soon we will be unbeatable & I can’t wait to go to the OU & WVU games coming up. The ACC is not looked at like the SEC. How many times has a PAC10 or Big10 powers been left out due to OOC. The ACC is improved but not enough to play a few 1-aa grabage teams @ home in the same year.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
I wouldn't necessarily favor backing into the NC
Every year. But for now, scheduling sure wins is the best strategy. We need to show improvement (whether or not Jimbo likes it, that will be measured by most people in terms of Ws). More Ws = more exposure, better recruits, etc.
Then, let’s see how things look. If the ACC is down, we can afford to play a better quality opponent. If it’s up, then we don’t need to (see UF, LSU and the perceived strength of the SEC; OOC doesn’t matter in their cases).
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
How many times has a PAC10 or Big10 powers been left out due to OOC.
They played for 5 of the last 8 National Championships
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Most of those were undefeated going in
I can think of a few times there was a 1 loss team that got left out from those conferences too.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
Auburn is in the all mighty SEC and that was just an odd year, thats the exception
USC should have gone that year. Michigan got their butts whooped by USC when they didn’t go so they clearly didn’t deserve it. And you just made a stronger case for us not needing any more OOC tough match-ups. Because if we lose 1 game just 1 we won’t make it to the NCG. So why schedule a possible loss when we already have to play at least 3 ranked ACC teams if not more most years, a top SEC team in UF, and a conference championship game? (something the Pac-10 and Big 10 don’t have which hurts their chances) that would make it impossible for an undefeated season and so another championship any time soon.
Acually it proves that if you don't play in the worshiped conference & lose 1 you better have a nice OOC to get you in.
Look at undefeated Cinncy. No1 even gave them a look due to putrid schedule. Yes they got beat in the bowl game but that doesn’t matter. What matters is at the time they were undefeated & didn’t even get a sniff.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
You kill your own point again
Auburn is in the Mighty SEC and still didn’t go to the championship game even when undefeated. The truth is when Texas / UF / Alabama and other big schools are starting to schedule the way they do you have to be undefeated to even have a shot. By scheduling OOC games against tough opponents you are lowering your chance substantially. Even with 1 loss and a strong SOS if Bama/UF and Texas/OU or USC or Ohio State with their easy schedules go undefeated (which likely at least 2 of those teams will) than your SOS means nothing.
The SEC started a whole media relations push about how tough the SEC is AFTER that happened. It wouldn’t happen now.
I agree but his point was that Auburn
if you are in the SEC you can schedule cup cakes and other conferences don’t get that luxury (including Pac-10 teams). If I remember correctly USC (a pac 10 team) went to the NCG that year and the all mighty SEC champ didn’t. Guaranteed if we were undefeated having beat UF and then won the ACCG and Texas with their soft schedule and Bama after also beating UF were undefeated in the same year we would probably beat out Texas to play in the MNCG because we beat a UF team OOC and Texas didn’t. Plain and simple we have to play UF OOC and that is enough. SOS does not matter in the BCS formula anymore
BTW
I would love to keep the big match up games as long as the rules changed. I too love to watch the big games against big time schools, but until they change the rules of the BCS to reward SOS it is just counterproductive to do so. So I say play by the rules, it’s done wonders for UF / Bama / Texas / LSU. Heck even freaking Boise State and TCU have some people claiming they deserve a shot and their schedule IN CONFERENCE and OOC is pathetic.
Auburn is in the SEC
What year did Penn State get left out?
When did Michigan get left out?
When did USC get left out?
Specific years, please.
I'll take it
For NOLEFAN’s sake, I’ll guess the following:
Penn St- 2008 or 2005
Michigan- 2006
USC- 2006, 2007, 2008
There were computers involved in a few of these instances, so the argument can be made that some of the teams that were left out because they were ‘just as deserving.’
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Did they have legit arguments in any year?
Penn State didn’t play anyone OOC and I know Michigan didn’t. We have UF
I think Michigan may have beaten Oregon
But no one still talks about ‘what if’ for any of those teams. I was just playing NOLEFAN’s advocate
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Many
look at Ohio State making the NCG every time they go undefeated in the horrid Big 10 with no Conference championship game even after getting completely murdered by SEC teams in the Bowl Games year after year they still will play for the NC as long as they go undefeated because they are “The Ohio State University”. Just like FSU will go to the NCG if we go undefeated and beat a top SEC team in UF along the way, plus win the ACCCG which will be most likely against another top 15 team. We already have the name recognition needed now all we need is wins. And we won’t have a soft schedule because along the way to win the ACC we will have to go through at least 3 or 4 ranked teams plus UF and then the ACCCG agains another ranked team.
NOLEFAN1...
You do realize the ACC is not the ACC of the 90s right? Back then the ACC were cupcake games for the most part, so we didn’t NEED to schedule cupcakes, we needed to schedule tough OOCs. Things have now turned around. It is no fluke that a number of ACC teams have some of the nation’s toughest ranked schedules. How does playing Clemson (top 20), BC, UM (top 20, maybe 10 some years), UF (top 10), UNC (top 25 sometimes)/VT (top 15)/GT (top 20) and then the top Coastal team in the ACC championship not provide you with enough good games for your “memories”? That is a HARD schedule. Throwing another 1-3 losable games in the mix is a recipe for failure. Failure in recruiting, failure in winning the ACC, failure in regaining our place among the nation’s elite. You may think FU is backing into titles, but that number one recruiting class all felt differently.
Enjoy our medocrity playing your tough OOC schedule and NEVER complain about not consistently winning the ACC again, OR get with modern times and don’t shoot yourself (FSU) in the foot before we even begin the race.
I wouldn't
Many teams have titles. No other team has EVER come close to duplicating that feat.
And
Most people around here refer to them as “Mythical National Titles” anyway, right?
There's nothing mythical about:
A) A big ass chunk of crystal in your trophy case
2) Recruiting advantages to a championship team
D) Mohney Mohney…MONEY!!!
Hudson) Perception, perception, perception
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said there was
I think national titles are great to have – but many people do view them as “mythical” (I don’t – they were won in the accepted manner; how is that mythical? Now recruiting “NCs”… yeah, those are mythical).
Regardless, I’ve never heard anyone refer to 14 consecutive Top 5 finishes as mythical, though.
Yeah, Bud's question was completely subjective.
All about personal preference. Personally, I’d rather have another MNC…especially since UF has one.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh.
I’m greedy – I’d love the 87, 89, 96, 98, 00 NCs… and a few more in between! That would put us well ahead of that school in Florida’s groin.
Yep!
And with our level of talent, should we have won more of those? While UF/Miami was on probation or whatever?
Now THAT would be a controversial piece for the good people of TN. The LiverSpot brigade would mutiny for SURE
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Call Money
One other point of note is how NCs were determined in the 90s. This was pre-computer calculations, so the human polls determined who was the ‘best’ team. By winning tough OOC games back then it went a long way in pushing your team’s resume to the top of the list, so it was wise to schedule those type of games.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What's the deal with Miami not being able to pay for the free wins?
Is there athletic department broke or something? Also, how much money do the bigger programs get for going on the road to play? I know it’s not as much as the cupcakes, but I just want to know the ballpark amount.
They can't afford not to, either.
They can’t afford to pay Shannon more than 2 first time DI-A head coaches (Fisher and the UVA coach’s name).
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
You don't have to play the best to be the best
Or else UF wouldn’t have 2 MNC’s since 06.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why we have to schedule like them
We can’t put losses on the schedule or else we’re toast.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The point was to address unnecessary OOC games
Wake was a conference divisional game and we have to play those, though I will agree it was perhaps the worst game ever at Doak.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It was acutally 30-0
and it poured the whole game long. I can’t believe to this day that I acutally stayed the whole game and then even into the band playing after the game. Was won of the worse feelings I’ve ever had at any sporting event.
"You play to WIN the GAME"
I was watching that game with my FSU gear on in a sports bar in Chicago.
I had to leave before getting in a fight. It was the most embarrassed I’ve ever been to be an FSU fan
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I was actually at a house party in Broward County.
Surprised to find out my non-FSU co-worker who hosted the party happened to have a Wake Forest Alum roommate who invited all his cohorts. I should’ve walked in and walked out.
winning is all that matters
Once we start winning with an easier schedule everyone is going to forget this whole debate because they’ll be too busy celebrating every weekend.
You mean..
Once we start dominating with our same old traditional power sos, then everyone will forget about asking for creampuffs.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
Not likely.
Just admit it: it may not be how you want it but Jimbo has made it clear we’re going to the easier schedule format. You may think we should go with a tougher schedule but the fact remains that we are not.
I do think Jimbo will keep the larger games like OU every now and then and they won’t always be Western Carolina, FIU, etc.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 16, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Scheduling
Obviously the removal of Air Force was not enough to put this issue to rest. Until we see our 2011 & 2012 schedules free of USF and WVa and the like, do I think we move past this argument.
For those against, please understand this is part of Jimbo’s plan AS HE HAS STATED SEVERAL TIMES. You’ve already seen the changes implemented in coaching and recruting, so please prepare yourselves for the changes in scheduling that will take place.
For those that are for the changes, I can only say consider this issue not put to bed until we actually see the changes made in our schedule.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we drop USF
Will their fans not go nuts because they never got a shot at us at their place?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They might...
but if our idiot AD never scheduled them in the first place, we wouldn’t have to even consider that future situation. :)
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Woah Woah Woah...
That was NOT my doing.
Jim Leavitt tied me up, and punched me in the face. While I was knocked out, they took hold of my hand and signed the deal.
Punk ass kids, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, ungrateful little bastages.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I choose to Rec
It just seems like the right thing to do today
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. A lot of really good points being made.
This is a smart bunch, I tell ya. I feel right at home…
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I would NOT drop USF
We need to take it to them and put them back in their place. No way I want that 17-7 hanging over us. And I think Jimbo will have us in a great position to beat them. I honestly don’t think we’ll lose to them next time.
By the way, I also said how STUPID it was to play them last year.
Agreed.
Do not drop USF. Go to their place and sleep with their momma, sister and girlfriend.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Or risk a motivated group of recruiting rejects led by a rushing QB
led by the guy that Hudson coached under.
Risssssssky Trick.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Miami seemed real hard-pressed to win their in 2009.
Let’s see what USF does in Gainesville this year. I have a feeling, despite UF not challenging for the SEC or BCS title, they still take USF to TOWN!
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Yeah, I considered writing "The Pirate ship that doubles as a football field"
But would look stupid if USF had decided to construct a football stadium before then…
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
USF won't have their own football stadium for years.
Not only can’t they afford it, they don’t want it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
USF
I totally understand people wanting to keep USF for a revenge beat down. My decision is based solely on risk aversion, and the following points:
1. Holtz could bring in some solid recruits and build a strong program
2. It ctould be a total rain fest and turnovers/sloppy play happens (Jax St.)
3. Someone major on our team could get hurt while we could have had a cupcake to play and rest our players for the bigger games on the sked
4. We have no idea how good the other teams on our schedule will be that year
So why risk it?
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the idea of revenge is overrated
We can revenge it by winning 10 games and making them an afterthought.
Yep...
Make them die a slow and painful death.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points
But if Holtz does get them looking good, we’d have to deal with that and the fact that they beat us. If we back out, we have to deal with that backlash forever (people are still accusing UF of dodging UM). I’m not saying let’s go out of our way to schedule them, but let’s keep the slated game and make darn sure we win it (always a bit of a risk, but we should beat them).
USF has the potential to be very good. Maybe not immediately, but they could be in the long run. They have more students than we do, I think; a more central location (easier access); less overall money right now, but that could change (become a Seminole Booster!). Of course, they could end up being a bit of a thorn in UF’s side recruiting-wise (and perhaps in fan base – those wishy-washy fans who are Gators because they are close by)… so, go Bulls?
Anyway, I say we circle that game like they did this past one. Prepare like it was a NCG. Revenge? A little – but more so reestablishing us as the better program.
I agree (somewhat)
This is a circular argument, so not much either of us can do. I just rely on the options that should exist
1. Schedule USF and hopefully win
2. Schedule Craptastic Tech with Head Coach Turd Ferguson and DEFINITELY win
As far as UF goes, I don’t know a single one of their fans that has any concern over not playing UM. Why should their schedule be harder than it already is if they know they can win every game (and in some years actually lose one) and be in the Nat Champ game every 2-3 years?
Their response: No thank you.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think USF is already on the schedule, so we won’t ad them; and I’m not saying play them beyond the scheduled game. I also think UF dropped (or just didn’t renew?) UM when the SEC expanded the number of conf games. That’s an understandable situation, and one reason UF fans shrug their shoulders at it.
So, I do want to play USF once more – after that, nah. Bring on the cupcakes! (Yum)
UF played UM four times in the 2000s
Foley has said he doesn’t want them back on in the future w/o there being perfect circumstances.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
They’ve put them on there in years when there’s an extra regular season game. They still get there cupcakes (and eat ’em, too), though!
We don't have to beat them to restablish we're a better program
One loss doesn’t mean they have a better program, it means they won the game. Bama eastablished they have a better program than us without avenging the 07 loss. We have to win games, conference titles, and BCS bowls.
I would love to see us go to The House That Derrick Brooks Built and destroy USF but not at the expense of the extra home game and 99.9% guaranteed win.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 16, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
True
Poorly phrased on my part. But, beating us gives them something extra to toss out in recruiting. We get ‘em back, I think it goes farther in emphasizing the status quo. After all, what if Skippy has them making strides in the next few years? They win the Big East (not unlikely), maybe beat a Boise St. in the BCS, etc. I’d like to have a W notched up against them rather than letting them say, “Hey, we beat them!”
Again, though, I’m all for not playing them regularly – but I have no problem sticking with the currently scheduled game, and I can see positives for doing so.
I probably should have rephrased that.
We may see a bigger OOC but not an OU.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 16, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Charleston Southern
Looks like Air Force got replaced with Charleston Southern…or were they always there and I didn’t notice?
http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/fsu-m-footbl-sched-home-acc.html
Questions
A) Any reason why Air Force begged to be out of the contract?
2) Whats McAllister’s projected playing weight?
D)Will the tower be taken down?
Tres) thats ‘three’ in spanish
Blue) Why is Fisher so high on Smith and Haulstead?
"Kill a fly with an axe"
Reason not given
McAllister can hold 290lbs easily, IMO. Probably won’t get there until 2011.
No word on tower status.
Smith and Haulstead are talented big body guys who work hard, catch the ball, and are making nice progress to being really good players.
Interesting
Looks like Air Force has been trying to drop this game since 2008, so let’s hope we initiate some of the future scheduling changes ourselves.
Notably at the request of AF's new coach
Looks like another head coach realizes:
A) wins are hard to come by
2) a HC is judged by his record
d) ironically, CFB fans are generally uneducated
yeah,
I found it interested that a non-BCS school would try to schedule “smarter”. I would think that Air Force would need the potential quality wins.
Jimbo's face turned REAL serious when Willie & Rodney were mentioned..
I detected no fluff there..
"May the gods keep the wolves in the hills and the women in our beds."
Im with Jimbo
“When asked about using Bobby Bowden’s tower, Fisher said no and that he would be coaching, on the field. Seems to me like he thought the idea of standing in a tower and not coaching was ridiculous.’
I like this quote
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Mar 16, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Upset
I was hoping we would still play USAFA. My timing was going to work out just right where I would be stationed there when FSU came to down…oh well
Like others above have mentioned, my favorite part was when he was asked him if he would be up in the tower and he replied
"No, I’ll be on the field coaching."
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Frank, I think you'll agree with me on this...
I am very disappointed that Jimbo has not decided to follow Bobby Bowden’s influence on this. Clearly the best place for the head coach to be during practice is hanging out with friends in his office. That’s what a true CEO is supposed to do.
Tower
The only reason someone should be up in the tower is the camera person to video tape the practices. Those days of ‘towering’ over the practices are over since Bear Bryant.
Go Noles!!
You are wrong,sir.
There is another legitimate reason for being up in the tower: It’s easier to wipe your nose up there… something to do with the altitude clearing your sinuses.
My values: I love my wife, admire my dog, and believe very deeply that Bobby Bowden and Paula Dean were separated at birth.
It's also easier to hock a loogie and spit on players from that height.
Those gold helmets make for great targets!
Don't forget
It much easier to take a nap during practice because the noise from those peskt players fades with altitude.
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 15, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
When asked about what he was going to do witht he tower Jimbo replied
“Shoot a bow out of it”
365 days, until I change my ways.
Yes, the insult was hurled so far upwards that it was impossible to determine the target.
At least he had the courtesy to use a period.
It was joke.
Maybe you should wait until you’ve posted more than four times before you start calling people names.
Doofus?
Seriously Trick? You pick “doofus” out of all the insults in the world? How does that happen?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
How does it not happen?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Lets see....
Two of the most successful coaches of all time used a tower towards the end of their career. Yeah, so it must suck?
I love that Jimbo is going to be his own man, do his own thing, it obvious that FSU needed the new blood. Look at future…it bright. So stop whining about the past you bunch of know-it-all punks.
Gripper
huh?
And towards the end of each of their tenures they were pure garbage.
Coincidence?
Bowden was using the tower all through the 90’s…so that matters how?
No worries…I get it. Your all a bunch of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately band wagon whining babies that will turn on “your man” Jimbo and Co if they don’t win 9 games next year.
Go Noles!!
Gripper
You were the one who brought up "toward to the end of their tenure"
It’s not about winning X number of games. It’s about cleaning up Bowden’s mess, adhering to process and not being misled by unsustainable results.
Go Noles!
Riiiiiight
So it won’t matter if the Noles drop 7 games next year, it’ll be about “the process”.
You can say what ever…we all know its about the wins.
BTW-I got no problem with the new staff. I’m looking forward to the future. I just don’t understand why so many folks feel a need to bash the past. Some of you are like a woman scorned…get over it.
Go Noles!!
Gripper
actually
I think all of us here believe that with our tough schedule, 8 wins would be good
The Bobby Bowden University guys are gonna be the ones calling for Jimbo’s head. Nice try, though.
Oh yeah,
because its not about winning for Jimbo-is-a-football-god crowd…its about the process.
Too funny…again believe what you want. But if Jimbo doesn’t keep Bowden’s errrr. FSU’s 30+ years of winning seasons and bowl eligibility streak going, nobody is going to be backing him.
Gripper
Nobody is afraid to say a losing season would be a huge disappointment
But to most of us, an 8-10 win season is expected. You won’t see us claiming a national championship is in our near future.
>>---l>
And for the I-worship-Bobby's-Liverspots crowd,
Who needs a process when you can just get lucky? Processes get in the way of naps, golf, FCA breakfast, trips to Dillards, cruises, and vacations in South Walton. Processes require work, effort, thoughtfulness, and management. As the saying goes, hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.
Lucky??
When Jimbo gets half of the 14 consecutives years of 10 or more wins (even with the bonus of playing an extra regular season game), then come talk to me about ‘processes’.
Lucky my arse.
Gripper
Unfortunately, Jimbo won't be so lucky to play pitiful independent schools,
then in an inept ACC, and recruit against UF and UM while they’re under probation. Yes, luck does have something to do with Bowden’s success.
by coonhound on Mar 15, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, it was luck not talent.
How could I and the college hall of fame gotten that wrong? Bowden sucked as a coach, he was “lucky” to win 389 games.
BTW-JImbo recently said he wanted to drop Air Force to play another cupcake. AF let him/FSU off the hook. How much you want to bet a directional school takes their place? But it won’t be a “pitiful independent”.
Also, did you know one of Bowden’s nicknames was ‘King of the Road’? Do you know why they called them that? Goggle it whipper snapper, learn something before typing your crapola.
I can’t believe I’m having to defend Bobby Bowden to FSU fans…how sad is that?
I’ll probably beg out of this thread, cause you young haters just don’t have clue.
Gripper
Every major player buys 3 non-conference wins.
You’re not having to defend his career. You’re trying to defend the charges that he was running FSU into the ground by a decade of incompetence, and you’re trying to do so by pointing to things that happened 15 years ago.
I’d trade those 14 straight top 5 finishes for 1 more national championship. One less choke job against a good team.
Bowden did play a ton of cupcakes and also played difficult road games. Unfortunately, all that matters now are wins, even against a pitiful schedule. See Boise State.
What would it have taken?
For you to conclude that Bowden’s time was up? Certainly there must be some threshold beyond which you would have said “enough”…
I reached that point last year.
For me, it was:
when our defense looked like talented kids who didn’t know what they were supposed to do, and ranked as one of the worst in the country.
when we couldn’t consistently win in the ACC— one of the weaker BCS conferences,
when UF treated us like a division II school, playing their backups and taking a knee instead of trying to score
when almost all elite high school players list UF and USC as teams they’re considering, but only a minority consider FSU
when it was clear that we had not been competitive with the top programs in college football for at least 3 years
when Bowden came to the press conference after the USF game and starts with ’they’re good, they beat the heck out of us’— referring to a team that finished their season 6-5 against D1 schools, and a team that had played a freshman QB in his first start
when our players were no longer desired on the next level
I could go on and on here…
Bowden did many great things, and he built a great program, but can you really not see that the program was on the decline?
I’m enthusiastic about Jimbo Fisher, but I WILL be critical of him if he doesn’t produce a certain number of wins, and I think many other people here will be as well. It’s not all about wins, but wins are part of it—- clearly you recognize the importance of wins— your argument for how good Bowden was at his prime recounts mostly the things he won!
You have called us
A) know-it-all punks.
2) a bunch of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately band wagon whining babies
D) a woman scorned
VII) whipper snapper
and
玖) young haters.
You really don’t even have a clue to the ages of some of the members here. You seem to be under the impression that everyone who wanted Bobby gone because he had dragged down our program to one of irrelevance, are just a bunch of know-it-all whipper snappers (too funny). You my friend are oblivious.
But judging from the names you called us and your granddaughters t-shirt (obviously she can’t be your daughter because you are so much older and wiser than the rest of us punks), we know exactly where you stand.
(BTW, your granddaughter is adorable)
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I choose to Rec coon
And you should too. Greenies
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I worship Bobby and I have liverspots.
However, Bud and other thoughtful writers on this Site or whatever it is called, have convinced me that even though I do indeed still worship Bobby and though I do have liverspots, it was time for him to go.
They did so with the cogent logic and understandable statistical analysis that makes this place such a wonderful marketplace of ideas, where all may shop and buy as they wish.
They did not convince me by way of pejorative comments about liverspots. If you are under the age of thirty then I have neck ties that I have worn while trying cases to juries that are older than you. I will not hold your youthful inexperience aganist if you will agree not to hold it against me that you have moved me nearly to the point of irritation by falling off the path of logical disputation.
by Nole75 on Mar 16, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So when I finished reading this
I had to click “up” and make sure you weren’t talking about me. Whew.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Didn't Fisher already keep that bowl/winning season streak going this year?
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I'll be honest.
I remember watching the Maryland game this year at my dad’s condo and some of his older friends came over for some reason or another. They decided to sit down next to me and talk amongst each other while I was watching the game…during the 4th quarter. And I had given up. I had reached that point where I said, “The streak is over. It’s done. We aren’t going to a bowl. We won’t even win 6 games. There’s nothing left. Nothing’s left standing from the dynasty.” I wasn’t even upset. I was just sad. I just wanted to sit back in my chair, prop my feet up on the coffee table, close my eyes and say, “F***.” Not yell it. Just say it quietly to myself in defeat. And these old people took that from me (no offense to old people).
BUT OH MY GOD! FSU is saved by Jimbo Fisher’s offense! Led by two FRESHMEN! Our freshman QB, in only his 2nd career start and only his 2nd career game of meaningful snaps, threw 3 picks. But, when the game was on the line, he drove us down the field and a freshmen RB muscled his way in for the game-winning TD.
We had over 400 yards of offense despite having the ball for less than 23 minutes. Our opponent, conversely, had it for over 37 minutes. We had 6 less yards of offense than Maryland on 22 less plays and 14+ less minutes of possession (a whole, freaking quarter).
That was a damn microcosm of our season.
Side note: Another freshman, recruited mainly by Fisher, helped set up that game-winning and streak-saving TD. Thank you, Mr. Reid. And as much as I love what Bobby Bowden did for FSU, there is no way I credit him for the reason we won that game. Jimbo Fisher is the sole reason we weren’t god-awful last year.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
by tricknole on Mar 15, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe the process won a national championship last year
I also believe thats where the process meets results, or where you old timers say where the rubber hits the road.
I think most FSU fans want more success, right?
So, when a change is made to affect that success, we want to compare the new process to the old process to understand how the coaches will actually improve success. You are excessively sensitive to the notion that the old process did negatively influence success, and the source of that old process is a legend of whom we wish no further harm. I have no ill-will towards Bowden, but it is absurd to think that we will not compare the program under Bowden to the new program under Fisher. If that sheds negative light upon Bowden so be it. A baseline must be established in order to measure improvements and declination.
by coonhound on Mar 15, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thats all fine and good
Except your baseline only goes back so many years. Someone here is spouting off about “Bowden’s mess”…come on. FSU football, heck, the whole athletic dept….Comparably speaking…what Bowden started with at FSU and what Jimbo is being given…you guys obviously have no idea.
I’m not going to argue that the last several years weren’t bad, but dag gummit, it only looks that bad cause of where Bowden had FSU in the 90’s…you look at what Bowden started with and where he got FSU.
Go Noles!
Gripper
It looks bad because of
production relative to resources. Great recruiting area yet we pick the bad apples. And tons of money paid not for good coaches but for family friends in the twilight of their careers.
Bowden has a losing record v. UM and UF lifetime. Wanna go back many years? Lets go back the whole FSU tenure.
Otherwise, let’s look at our return on investment and all the things that Bowden was directly causing or permitting, and how much FSU was paying for that.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 15, 2010 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lets go back...
First and only coach to win 10 or more games and finish in the AP top 5 for 14 consecutive years.
First and only coach to win 11 consecutive bowl games and only coach to go 14 consecutive bowl games without a loss.
First coach to go Wire-to-wire as AP’s #1 team.
Coach of the team of the decade for the 90’s.
Left FSU with 33 consecutive winning seasons….longest in the Nation right now. Also, those 33 consecutive years of taking his team to a bowl game…an all time record.
And finally, the 2nd most winningest college Div 1 coach of all-time…even if you don’t count the ones the NCAA took away.
I have no idea why are such haters. Sad way to live you lives IMO.
Gripper
not haters
How happy would a bunch of investors be if someone started an amazing company that was great for let’s say 20 years, then the same guy starts ignoring it and essentially killing the company?
I guess, since he made it, he deserves the option to kill it. The investors should just get over it.
See Apple and Steve Jobs
Oh, wait, then see who Apple brought back to help turn them around hehe!
LOSING RECORD
against Miami and UF. Losing Record.
Don’t care about the straight 10 win seasons very much. You highlight that because he choked it up against teams with similar talent but with good coaching.
The gates had to win 6 in a row..
Just to get it close.
No1 has a winning record vs Miami from 80-2009. We should’ve & came damn close. The missed 2pt in 87, wide right 1,2,3 & wide left. The losses in the early 00’s that we choked away. Just bad luck.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
Many of our wins came when Miami/ UF were under sanctions
We didn’t lose because of the field goals. We lost because of dumb tactical decisions made earlier in the games.
Arguably
Many of their wins came with well-paid teams. There’s some give and take there.
I am a HUGE Jimbo fan, but I don’t think Bowden’s first 20+ years need to be tarnished – he did a great job for us. Let’s give credit where credit is due, blame where blame is due. For example, he hired Andrews, Richt, etc. – just as he hired Jeff, etc. We lost some big games, but we won plenty of them – Michigan, Ohio State, Auburn, LSU, etc. (the undefeated bowl streak was very impressive).
Let’s keep things in perspective – it was definitely PAST time for Bowden to leave, but let’s not forget what he DID accomplish previous to the Lost Decade. He did a great job – it wasn’t just luck, as the results indicate; we won far too much for that. It was a different approach/process for a different era. I don’t see the need for insulting him anymore (not referring to the post above specifically).
by Invictus13 on Mar 16, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He absolutely did a great job
Just keeping it fair. If we say the Gates had to win 6 in a row to get to a winning record, then we can also acknowledge when many of our wins over them came.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
True
And thanks for “keeping it fair”! The tone of some of the posts have gotten almost antagonistic – and that’s what bugged me.
I believe in Jimbo, but not the personal attacks on Bowden that some have made. (Although, I will criticize the past ten years with the best of them!)
Yes & No..
You can always say something earlier we did cost us the game but when you have a field goal inside 30yds with a chance to win & miss. That also cost you the game.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
You make your own luck.
When you “play not to lose”, you put your fate in the hands of a soccer player wearing a helmet.
The Canes didn’t beat us by making the field goals we missed, they beat us by driving a stake into our hearts with TD passes to Michael Irvin, Lamar Thomas, Jeremy Shockey ,etc.
Seriously, K-Man?
I did not need the reminder of the heartbreak that was Dorsey-to-Shockey circa 2000 this early in the morning.
With “Who Let the Canes Out” being played every 30 seconds, my friend’s wife spending the second half in the infirmary with Sebastian the Ibis due to heat exhaustian (we really WERE in hell that day), and then sprinting 13 blocks after the game through Little Havana to find a cab, the only thing worth remembering from that game was the fact that we could legally drink beers at a college football game.
I hate the Canes
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 16, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
But the general tone on this page has been anti-Bowden, and often it was Mickey’s defenses that were allowing UM’s comebacks by giving up huge plays. Regardless of what the offense is doing (except for turnovers, of course), teams that have large leads in the late 3rd or 4th quarters should win the dang games.
How often did we play stupidly conservative and go for field goals?
I felt like Mickey got F***** by Bowden’s decisions many times against Miami.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 16, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don't remember
All the specifics of each game. But there were times when we did not play conservatively, but still lost (going for 2 in 1987 – not conservative, but still failed). Perhaps other calls in that game were more conservative, but hindsight is 20/20. We go for it a couple times and don’t make it, we complain about not kicking the FGs (which we now know we missed).
What we do have are the overall Ws-Ls from 76-00, and I’ll gladly take those. No telling what another coach may have done for us, but it would be hard for anyone to have topped what we did do. Given the expectations for FSU (at the time), we did great – and I think most people here are reasonable about the expectations for the future (i.e., we aren’t going to be in the Top 5 every single year).
Here's an awesome little web page I stumbled across.
Check out who’s in the first photograph.
http://www.nationalchamps.net/2003/articles/1008_scrapbook.htm
Yeah, 10 losses to Miami are called bad luck?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Hey back off Sluggo. ;-)
I might agree that the 90’s and even the 80’s were awesome, but I don’t remember them.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
The 80/90s were the bomb!
I feel sorry for kids that missed that era! Especially the mid 90s. ;-) This new millenium sux & is soft as cotton.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
You mustve been a teenager in the 80's, and in your 20's in the 90's...
Because NOBODY born before 1981 uses the term “The Bomb”
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I use "The Biggity Bomb" Does that mean I'm old too?
by willdabeast on Mar 16, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what that means.
I’ve heard “bomb diggity”, but “biggity bomb”?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think it's related to Ringidy ding dingy do.
Or something else I heard in a Geico commercial…
I think that term hit the mainstream with 1995's "Clueless"
When Donald Faison’s character decided to shave his head at the party.
(Why do I know this? Damn you, brain!!!!)
Good math
They would have to be born before ‘81 to be 20 in the 90’s :)
Change that before to after...
I mistyped.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...sorry Frank
I guess I wasn’t jiving with everyone.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
idk about any clueless. lol
The word is slang for something I won’t go into that means good. ;-) Yes I started saying it in the mid 90s.
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
consecutive winning seasons has got to be the worst measure of coaching prowess
Going 1 game over .500 isn’t something to which great teams or great coaches aspire to.
Depending on the team, it can either be a sign of consistency or a sign of consistent mediocrity. For FSU, it became the later. Something that Bowden apologists clung to in order to try and justify his infinite retention.
Boasting about consecutive winning seasons for a program like FSU cheapens the concept of 14 straight top 5 finishes, which is truly something to be proud of. Maybe I’m too young to remember, but when FSU finally finished outside of the top 5, was anyone really that psyched about the fact that we were above .500 that season?
No. We weren't psyched to be above .500 that year.
4 losses was ungodly and embarrassing at the time. We were used to losing 4 games in 3 season….wrapping up a “winning season” by mid-October.
Anybody who wants to celebrate 3 6-loss seasons in 4 years does fist pumps when their children bring home C report cards.
Thank goodness for Western Carolina and Chattanooga. Would’ve been 4 straight years of 6 losses.
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well if luck played into his wins
Then it played into this past decade when it came to losing out narrowly on some big time recruits, having guys not make it in (Yeah yeah, I know you will say because they went after questionable guys, but they were guys all the other big programs were after, and got lucky to not get), having to deal with a player death during training (that could slow down many a giant program), coaches leaving. I know Bud said that technically no program has to go through a slide, but in reality, they all do. It is easy to say it does not have to happen, but reality dictates it does, beyond logic sometimes.
As for the slide, FSU was still making bowl games, even as trivial as they were.
Bowden is gone, so stop talking down about him. The expectations of greatness are ones he set. I know FSU had a football team before him, but it was no national power.
You just made the point that Gripper was arguing against.
He laughs at the idea of process and instead is focused solely on outcome. When you can’t explain why you are losing other than “bad luck” and it becomes a trend, then you probably are doing something wrong (process). Bad process usually predicts bad outcomes. This is true for anything- including the recruiting and academic problems you cited. Good process usually predicts good outcomes. But assuming that good and bad outcomes are the product of good and bad processes, respectively, is incorrect. Further, relying on processes that you cannot control is in itself a bad process. For example, having recruiting success in Florida when UF is on probation is a bad predictor for recruiting success when UF is off of probation. Thus, you must evaluate the process REGARDLESS of outcome. The same goes for whipping the ACC in the 90s. The coach must constantly evaluate if the process they engage in- from recruiting to training to coaching to fundraising- is adequate given the environment. The only thing that stayed constant from the 80s to the 00s is Coach Bowden. His process was very successful for over 20 years, but he failed to continually evaluate his program and adapt to the environment. Subsequently, the program faltered in the 00s.
Does this eliminate chance? Of course not, but it mitigates the effect of chance. A 2-9 team does not get lucky and win the BCS game. Alternately, a 12-0 team does not get unlucky and fail to become bowl eligible. Teams with good processes are more resistent to misfortune than teams with bad processes. Thus, slides are rare.
by coonhound on Mar 15, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but process does not always = "good luck"
Sometimes teams get good recruits, hire good assistants, and still seem to struggle. Of course if it was easy, all teams would do it.
FSU was good in recruiting even after Spurrier got UF back on the winning path..more winning than before they had got into trouble actually.
Stop talking as if the ACC was such a cakewalk in the 90s. It is not exactly dominant right now. Yes, I know, that proves FSU was down. I am just saying, the Noles of the 90s were not dominant due to their schedule. Auburn knew that when they bought out of their game against the Noles.
Besides, I was not arguing over why Bowden is gone, etc. My point was it is over, so now that he is retired, people can stop taking shots at him. I know he got paid lots the last ten years, but I am sure there were some really fine years he had where he was underpaid for what he did. Things have a way of balancing out. Phillip Fulmer, Les Miles, the list goes on of coaches who got paid more during worse seasons, but it is because they had won and earned those big contracts.
nolestuff, I agree with most of what you said. However, coonhound is also correct about establishing a baseline.
As one who witnessed our first major bowl (Tangerine), I also wish the Bowden slamming would end. Many of the hostile comments (especially those of a personal nature) toward him are not really necessary and counter-productive. Most of these comments are coming from the
A) know-it-all punks.
2) a bunch of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately band wagon whining babies
D) a woman scorned
VII) whipper snapper
and
玖) young haters
(not my words, copied from a previous comment and being used in complete sarcasm)
who don’t know anything other than the past 9 years, or less even, so all they ever got to witness was a shell of the man Bobby once was.
While I don’t believe he was was the greatest coaching mind ever, and while he did make some questionable calls during games that may or may not have cost us a NC or two, he was exactly what we needed at the time of his hire, a charismatic media savvy good ol’boy, who surrounded himself with coaches who elevated him to the second most winning-est coach ever, and made FSU a relevant force in the college football landscape.
Therefore, I don’t really get too upset with most of these comments because many are coming from members who were not even a formed sperm cell during our meteoric rise and only have recent history to base their comments on. I am just really glad they seem to have gotten past the spiteful name calling and the depend jokes (even though I also am guilty of making some) and now seem to be focusing on how truly stagnant and out of touch our program was over the course of the last 10 years.
AND MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, IT WAS. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THIS IS OBLIVIOUS AND IS NOT WORTH MY TIME IN TRYING TO EDUCATE THEM.
However, as of today, we have nothing to measure the progress Jimbo is making except what occurred during the lost decade. This is why coonhound’s “baseline theory” is valid. This is why Bobby’s name and his philosophies and the way things were done under his tenure are relevant.
I would be thrilled to death if Bobby were never mentioned in a negative manner again, but I understand why Jimbo’s progress and changes he has already and will continue to implement, will be compared to what previously was. It is the only way to compare what used to be with what is and will be.
I guess instead of this long winded keyboard heave of mine, I could have just said that the way Bobby ran the program for the past decade, is indeed fair game in comparison to what Jimbo is doing today.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Mar 16, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It happens to us all
Everyone gets complacent after doing anything for that long of time. Bobby put FSU on the map, no doubt, but it was time…. Actually, it was a few years ago, but it was Bobby. So….
by NoleySmokes on Mar 15, 2010 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No.
We’re all Florida State fans. If you’re hurting the Florida State program, we’ll turn on you.
We haven’t seen posts like these since December. I wonder why they’re showing up now and if they’ll show up again in August.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 16, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The free amazing spring previews is bringing all the new blood.
Some people prob didnt know what to expect. I dont think it will stop for another 10-15 years to be honest. You have current students that feel he was great, even at the end. Nothing we can do about it but present the rock solid analysis that this site has to offer.
I don't think it'll continue for THAT long (unless you were being facetious)
but I fully expect it for at least a year or two. If Jimbo hits the ground running with a couple of 10 wins season, and ACCCG appearance, and possibly a BCS victory, then we’ll see less and less. The morons will realize that they were, in fact, very very wrong.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I was serious, but Ill be honest, i dont know how die hard some of these young alumni are
I happen to be insane, so I was able to be in Tally from 02-05, and love the experience.
I also think that some of these people who became FSU fans bc of their parents, are going to have the parent mentality. It is just kind of maddening bc I have had arguments with people that are in school NOW, that still feel he was unfairly pushed out. I really think some of us have a viewpoint not jaded enough because of this website. There is a large contingent that doesnt come on here, but scream at the top of their lungs that “BOBBY IS FSU.”
In closing, yes, I could easily see this lasting another decade, give or take a few years depending on our success level. Nothing fixes perception like winning.
Pardon my lack of orgnaization
but I am exhausted, and needed to get my fix in at TN. Some of this post was also addressing the comments by Osceola below.
Oh, and one more thing; morons are morons because they dont know that they are wrong when right is staring and slapping them right in the face
and FrankD, okay, Im done.
addressing Frank as well I mean. They may see an old man, but that man is an extended grandpa, you know?
Or fathers in some of our cases. My dad is one year older than Bobby.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Doubt younger fans keep the grudge alive
Most of the younger fans don’t have the memories of Bowden winning to keep the grudge alive. I think it will be similar to younger Bama fans with Bear. They know he put up great numbers, but they aren’t sitting around comparing Saban to him and expecting the same kind of success. Older Nole fans may chirp in with comments that Fisher doesn’t have as many titles or won’t have the run of top 5 finishes, but younger fans don’t have a personal attachment to those things.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 16, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Miaminole, I could be wrong (which is usually the case) but I think the current students are the ones who have less respect for what he meant to FSU.
They have no experience or connection to the greatness that once was FSU football. I think they see an old man, who worked for 17 years past when most people retire, who didn’t have a grasp on what changes need to be made.
Again, I could also be out of touch with what the new generation of Noles are thinking, much like Bobby.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
What about the other successful coaches that are still winning championships?
Where are they during practice?
by FloridaStateJay on Mar 15, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree, the only time he should be hamming it up with friends is right before the kickoff.
At that point there is no reason to be in the locker room trying to get the players psyched and going over last minute details. If they’re not already prepared and psyched, there is no hope for them. And besides, that is what the assistant coaches are getting paid for. The CEO of the team does not need to micro-manage.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
On promoting CP7 for the Heisman, Jimbo said,
"I think it’s good. If a guy can handle it. If he can handle it in the team concept and not … put too much pressure on himself. But Christian’s a guy who can handle it … he’s a guy we want our sons to grow up like. I’m all for it. He’s earned it."
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
If he was in Vegas, Fisher would put money on Ponder playing in the entire spring game.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Jimbo on Bert Reed: "He even got a few muscles … I thought he painted them on there."
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Something Bud talked about previously that is new and is also being implemented this spring.
The tempo of practice will increase. The reps will increase. Two groups will be practicing at the same time.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
love hearing Jimbo describe the detailed abilities of an unheralded redshirt freshman DE.
Our head coach is doing this?! I hope everyone feels the same breath of fresh air that I’m experiencing.
Riiii-co-laaaaaaaaa
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 1:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Are we talking about his potential to evaluate talent from a bird's eye view.....
…..Or the potential to shout “Ri-co-la” and blow into a 40-foot Alphorn from atop the tower?
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Any insight as to how Jimbo's practice attendance will differ from Bowden's?
I’m not trying to pile on the ol’ legend, but it’s important to maintain perspective and see where we came from.
Thinking back to last year, Bowden would tape his show on Thursday (I think) and leave practice a bit early. I also recall hearing that he left early to attend an important “supper” or two.
This left the remaining assistant/executive/in-waiting head coaches to address the team in Bobby’s absence at practice’s end. Rumor was that there were some awkward moments at time and it wound up with Jimbo just talking to the offense and Chuck or Mickey just talking to the defense.
They were essentially 2 separate teams with 2 messages.
It’s only March, but has anybody heard if the procedure will be eliminated? I can’t imagine Jimbo bailing at 4pm without addressing the team.
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 2:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I thought the best part was where he said that Dustin Hopkins runs a 4.5 and can dunk a basketball behind his head.
365 days, until I change my ways.
in the open field, alone, while McDaniel looked like he wanted to eat his soul
365 days, until I change my ways.
Which doesn't make him a better tackler than a guy who had actually played defense
And McDaniel is a scary person
>>---l>
I know what you're saying, I'm just expressing my serious concerns over Ponder's durability
yet trying to stay on-topic and relevant… and incite a riot. :)
At the same time as size mattering, McDaniel is a bad bad man and he warned Christian not to do it.
365 days, until I change my ways.
McDaniel is a bad-@$$ and will be getting paid to play football.
It’s one thing to be made a fool of, or run over by an NFL-caliber DB. It’s completely another issue when you are the recipient of a season-ending injury.
Why all the questions about Ponder's durability?
He’s not getting hurt tripping over blades of grass? From the beating he took last year, I’d say he’s pretty durable.
Because he has had injury problems the last 2 years.
However, like you said 2 years ago our OL had terrible pass protection and he was getting wrecked. Last year he played with wreckless abandon.
365 days, until I change my ways.
I agree.
I don’t think the durability concern would even be an issue if he didn’t feel like he had to take the whole game on his shoulders (see BYU).
Which is part of my point
I love the kid, he’s a champ. But sometimes you have to get up and be able to fight another play. If he’s so smart, he should understand this.
No one is questioning his heart or courage. He has nothing to prove in that regard. He does, however, need to prove that he is durable. You don’t think the NFL scouts aren’t concerned about this?
But if you're a "smart" QB you don't lead with your throwing shoulder regardless
So, yes it’s a durability concern – but it does come back somewhat to his decision making.
he was already injured before the McDaniel collision
His ribs were badly hurt against NC State or sooner.
And he tweaked his knee significantly during a run against BYU. It was a contributing factor in the USF loss.
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 7:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jimbo's take on it today
“Jimbo doesn’t want him to just let McDaniel score that touchdown, “you’ve still got to get that guy on the ground, don’t let him score, we’re not going to do that like they do it the league.” Gotta do it a little safer, learn to slide and protect, but still be aggresive.
365 days, until I change my ways.
I agree with you both...
out of bounds would have been as good as getting “that guy on the ground”, I feel if the push works, then take it. If not, well don’t give up the TD,
I kind of disagree, to some extent. The game was effectively over as soon as DeAndre caught that ball.
365 days, until I change my ways.
Oh, I didn't realize that. I didn't get a chance to watch the whole 2nd half.
But unfortunately saw that play… in that case, maybe he should have let him score. He should have known the defense wasn’t going to make a stop…
I know most everyone knows this, but just in case you didn't hear about it.
During the Super Bowl, David Ponder texted his son, when Peyton Manning threw the pick 6, and told him to take a page out of Peyton’s playbook next time.
Although I do agree you try to push him out of bounds or make the tackle with your arms, but you have to be smart about it. Also I hope he gets some tips from one of the baseball coaches and masters his slide on draws, bootlegs, keepers and broken plays.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I would say part of that was his fault
2 years ago he didn’t have good pocket awareness. At times he would drop back too far or start running when he could have stepped up into the pocket. Enough blame to go around on that end.
2 years ago he had no expectation of protection
youngest offensive line in the country that was above average at run blocking and horrid pass pro’ing.
Agreed
That was just one of the things that annoyed me about him that year. Don’t like to hear the OL getting all the blame for him taking a pounding. Some of the hits could have been avoided. I didn’t worry about it too much because I knew it was because of inexperience and that it would change once he got more comfortable and the OL improved. I just remember yelling “step up!” many times that year. Hard to block for the QB when you have no clue where he’s at. It’s fun watching Ponder and the OL grow up together though. I expect offensive domination this year.
incredible effort, but he's gotta keep his head up when making tackles.
One of the first things they teach you in pads. Quickest way to end your career is to dip your head like he did.
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There's something about our kickers...
They are all just something else.
2010 ~ The Year of the Spear
As a former left handed pitcher, I resent that
My coaches loved me :-)
by basbalstr101 on Mar 15, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too.
Bill “Spaceman” Lee, pitcher for the Red Sox, said that since the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body and the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, only left handed pitchers are in their right mind.
Did you know there is no such thing as left handed Jai Alai players? Not permitted.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
It's a 3 wall court with no right wall, and a left hander would kill someone up against the inside wall. If you are left handed, you have to learn to catch and throw with the right.
If you happen to be the least bit interested, here is an 1984 interview with some of the players I grew up with and went to Jai Alai school with in North Miami (much better players than I ever was) that went on to play at Miami. I was offered a contract to play at Newport, Rhode Island, but decided to go to FSU instead and while there, they opened up Big Bend Jai Alai in Greensboro (near Quincy) where I played while at FSU, and later after graduating I played at WPB, but Miami had the worlds best players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY3yPeqq66Q&feature=related
And if you still care, this explains many things, including why no lefties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo4L83VQjPM&feature=related
Sorry to hijack, but you made me reminisce about my playing days.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
A quick chat about Jai Alai is NEVER hijacking.
Getting drunk and watching little foreign dudes zip around a big ass court with a buncha glass is helluva good time.
Before I click Frank’s youtube link, I’m guessing that the no lefty rule has soemthing to do with the rebound wall, and the speed of the game, but I’m not sure…
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
DESCRIMINATION!!!!!
And I only care bc I am a south paw.
What about left-handed volleyball players? ;-)
Pretty much the only advantage we southpaws have going for us is in sports.
2010 ~ The Year of the Spear
It's certainly not in writing papers with pencils.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Ouch
I blame the pencil, not the left-handedness…
Pens aren’t much better, really.
I thought it was clever.
I also thought about saying pen, but some aren’t as messy as others.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I was thinking more along the lines of death by power tools
but yeah, writing is annoying, too.
2010 ~ The Year of the Spear
He also starred in a sitcom, with the premise of a whacky family,
featuring a crazy, mentally unstable mother, a whipped father, a shady older brother named Reese, and a mentally challenged younger brother named Dewey.
the show’s orignial name was “Dustin in the Middle”, but was later changed because Dustin’s name wasn’t catchy enough.
Dustin also stars in really really cheesy kids move where he plays a special agent and fights international bad guys while making 14 year old girls across the globe swoon.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
CGI, Rico
The cropped out Dustin’s shins to make him seem more “wimpylittlebrotherish”
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I never saw it and it is not part of my extensive collection of thousands. j/k, or am I?
But since you made me curious and after a quick search, Wiki say it’s called
Screeched, aka Saved by the Smell,
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Closed practices
I remember in this preview, Bud mentioned closed practices. Wondering how they will do it in the open practice fields.
It'll be okay
We have TN spies who are quite adept at working under cover.
I imagine, though, that Jimbo will use his support staff for secrecy purposes.
>>---l>
My fern jumpsuit is at the dry cleaner. Ready for pick-up on Thursday.
by The K-Man on Mar 15, 2010 7:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It wouldn't be the first time you have been nabbed lurking in the shrubbery. Bazinga!
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
our practice field has a high fence with shrubbery all the way around it, and they have security at the entrance
365 days, until I change my ways.
Do you know who all are participating?
I would expect – Myron, Robinson, Watson, Owens, Goodman?
i dont think myron is.
the others yes. I think rolle is doing his own thing, not sure why
Shrubbery...
The Knights who say Ni are guarding the entrance!
Rats, beaten to it.
I always think Holy Grail when I hear shrubbery, too.
2010 ~ The Year of the Spear
Great read.
I am excited to see what Demonte can do at D end. He has the perfect frame to be a dominant pass rusher imo.
Temporary indoor practice field
Is it feasible to put a soft top, such as inflatable roof or the one like circus tent, over the band practice field to make it a temporary indoor practice field until a permanent one is built? Or it’s just not worth the effort.
I guess that ends it;)
Didn’t think about the wind factor.
Arizona State also had a "bubble" that blew apart.
But Dallas’ was a permanent structure. ASU’s could be deflated.
Story about ASU’s being ripped apart by a storm.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
We used to have one for the offense
Earlier in the decade, when Jeff Bowden was the OC.
It was a tent 9 feet wide.
Since the offense never really moved the ball more than 3 yards, it worked out well.
These days though, we need something more substantial.
by IndyFSUnole on Mar 16, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Wow
If you don’t laugh at that, you don’t have a pulse….
Seriously, someone else rec that sheet.
That was funny as hell.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet! My first green!
Seriously though, why couldn’t something be worked out so that the fb team could practice in the civic center sometimes? You know, in bad weather, and until we get that $30mil place bought.
What did coach Eliot say?
I didn’t know exactly what the writer was referring to when he stated “That should end speculation over what coach Eliot said last week.” Thanks.
CurtOFD78
Coach Eliot said his ideal DE weight is 250 lb.
Jimbo said 270-280 lb.
But I don't think his philosophy is
small, speed guys over big, fast guys. He was asked a question and just threw out a number. If he can get a 270 lb guy that can do what he has expected his 250 lb guys to do in the past, he’d take that in a heartbeat.
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
What about him?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Read your statement. Then read my answer (although he's a skosh bigger than 250)
Cmon Trick, keep up dawg.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought we were talking DE's.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
In the context of 270lb guy doing what a 250lb guy can...
Geez, man. You really have your days where you overanalyze everything so much that you lose context of things that don’t fit exactly what you would think.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 16, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
I was answering CurtOFD78’s question. Forgot to hit reply.
I realize that.
I was just trying to make sure people don’t think Eliot and Fisher will butt heads on this topic. I don’t have any inside knowledge of the situation, but I don’t see the ideal size of our DEs being an issue between the two.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
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