Dispelling the "Road Warrior" myth
by WBisaNOLE on Mar 16, 2010 1:03 PM EDT
69 comments
In a recent thread, we once again saw a Bobby Bowden loyalist overreacting to the criticisms leveled by TN towards the latter part of Coach Bowden's career. I take the view that Bud and Co. have simply been letting people know when the Emperor was out without his clothes. It is not belittling the man's entire career to point out legitimate problems that were the result of Bobby's decisions and leadership style. Bobby was a "CEO" coach, hence the tower for example. That is fine, I can respect that. The problem is, if that is the type of system that you run, then the things that you are accountable for consist of hiring decisions, firing decision, and other big picture stuff. If you want to run the team from the tower, you better be willing to ride herd on the coaches you observe from on high and make sure they are producing the results you want.
Anyway, to the title of this post. Scheduling and strength of schedule seem to have hit a nerve with some of the old timers. I remember going to some games in the early 80's against some real patsies. So, I though I would look back and jog my memory. I remember 1981 as well as anyone. This is the root of the Road Warrior reputation. Time and again, the argument against scheduling soft OOC except for the game against Florida brings out the cries of blasphemy. The old school guys want to return to the "glory days" when we would play anyone anywhere.
How did FSU schedule in the 80's and 90's? Lets look shall we?
In 1983, FSU played :
4-7 LSU
4-7 Tulane (FSU lost, but was later awarded a win by forfeit when Tulane played an ineligible player)
4-6-1 Cincinnati
3-8 Louisville
6-4-1 Az State
5-6 South Carolina
Went 1-3 against top 25 teams
1984 FSU schedule included:
2-9 East Carolina
5-6 Kansas
5-5-1 Memphis St.
3-8 Tulane
5-6 Az State
6-5 Temple
6-5 UT Chattanooga
Went 1-3 against top 25 teams
1985 FSU faced:
1-10 Tulane
2-7-2 Memphis St.
5-6 UNC
5-6 South Carolina
4-6-1 Western Carolina
6-5 Tulsa
Went 2-3 against top 25 teams
1986 FSU challenged:
4-7 Tulane
3-8 Wichita St.
3-8 Louisville
3-6-2 South Carolina
6-5 Southern Miss
6-5 Florida (Lost)
Went 0-3 against top 25 teams
1987 FSU’s 11-1 Seminoles included wins over
5-6 East Carolina
5-5-1 Memphis State
3-7-1 Louisville
6-4-1 Tex Tech
6-5 Southern Miss
6-6 Tulane
6-6 Florida
7-4 Furman (included as soft because of the teams it beat for those 7 wins.)
1988: FSU as an independent went 11-1 again,
Beating the likes of
5-6 Tulane
3-8 East Carolina
4-7 La. Tech
3-8 Va. Tech
Only played 4 road games
1989:
10-2 season for the Noles with victories over:
5-6 Southern Miss
4-7 La State
4-8 Tulane
2-9 Memphis State
6-4-1 Va Tech
6-4-1 South Carolina
They also played 6 home games that year, and a neutral site game in Jax.
1990 included some strong teams, but also:
5-6 East Carolina
4-7 Tulane
5-6 La State
1-10 Cincinatti
4-6-1 Memphis State
12-3 Ga Southern, (lower div. school)
Once again, 6 home games and a neutral site game in Orlando
To be honest, I got tired of looking at all the schedule table and transcribing them. The point is that after 1981, we scheduled more home games than away games, we kept an open date prior to the game against UF, and we played a lot of teams with weak records. I didn't have time to dig into every team we played, but many of the teams we faced with winning records racked up wins against weak competition. Yes we played some strong teams, several in fact each year. We were also an independent and needed to do this to make up for a lack of conference play. There were a lot of wins against 7-4 teams or 8-5 teams that equate to our current conference schedule against teams like Clemson, NC, GT, etc.
1981 created a myth, it is the exception to the rule. schedule info courtesy of www.nolefan.org
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Nice breakdown.
As I posted in another thread, 1981 had a few patsies as well. So, the media conjured up this idea of BB being “King of the Road” and playing anyone, anytime, anywhere, based on one brutal stretch in 1981. It was a Cinderalla story that many FSU fans have endeared themselves to for many years.
This goes to show that perception does not always equal reality.
One of the good things about hiring new blood is that the new HC will more than likely pay more attention to details like scheduling a few cupcakes and taking the week off before playing UF. BB was so entrenched that none of those details mattered anymore. He wasn’t going anywhere.
I agree
It just goes to show how much mileage you can get out of a single event (the 81 season) from then on out, if you played one or two good teams a year, not even on the road necessarily, people added it to the mystique. They conveniently forgot about the weaker teams because that doesn’t serve the legend well.
I’m not upset that the legend carried on, until people come on here spouting off about how much more of a risk taker Bobby was. It was just like the puntrooski, even as Bobby got more and more conservative, or turned things over to Jeff, he was always the “gambler” and wasn’t to be questioned.
I preferred.....
Barbarians as in the book “Saint Bobby and the Barbarians” more then I did the tagged name of Road Warriors. It was just more fitting IMO as similar to Arnold’s “Conan the Barbarian” in which we’d go into someone elses home and beat the shit out of em.
I didn't mean to leave out 1991
That was the final year before FSU started playing an ACC schedule. In 1991 FSU played:
1-10 Tulane
5-6 Va Tech
Middle Tennesee State (1-AA at the time)
5-6 LSU
2-9 Louisville
3-6-2 South Carolina
The two losses that year were to, wait for it….
UM and UF
6 home games and a neutral site game in Orlando.
No matter what you think of the ACC, Bobby Bowden scheduled patsies for most of his career just like anyone else. Once FSU joined the conference, there was no need to schedule the big schools anymore, particularly when Miami joined the ACC. Even with Duke in conference, the number of weak teams began to decrease, even as an extra game was added to the schedule. With the admittedly modest improvement of the ACC in late 90’s there was no longer a reason to play such a strong OOC schedule.
I think your post has the wrong title.
You are talking about the Road Warrior “myth” and what you are discussing is the strength of schedule myth. You are right in talking about the amount of patises. I remember beating the Tulsa Golden Hurricanes 76-14 because I was at the game (and no, I don’t remember the 4th quarter). But Bowden’s Road Warrior legend comes from the fact that he would go anywhere and play anyone. That’s it. And if you look at the schedule, that’s what he did. He may have had his arse handed to him a lot but he never quit trying. Once we joined the ACC, we kept doing that because there were so many patsies in the ACC. Now, as has been pointed out, things have changed, especially with the new parity and reduced scholarships. Patsies are tougher to come by. But to call Bowden’s Road Warrior mystique a myth is a mistake.
For example (in no particular order): You didn’t mention the 1988 road Victory against a 10-2 Clemson team that ended up #8. How could you leave out the PuntRooski game for cryin out loud!?!? Also the 1985 17-13 victory at Nebraska who went 9-3 and ended up #10. We lost to Auburn in 1983 by three points against an Auburn team that featured Bo Jackson and went 11-1 and ended up #3. That game featured an audacious 4-1 fake pass that succeeded. (Yes, that was when Bowden had a pair). What about a 36-27 road victory against a 9-3 Ohio State team in 1981 and were #7 when we played them (they ended up #12)? We beat them again in 1982 when they went 9-3 and ended up 12th in the nation again. In 1986, we lost an away game to Michigan 18-20. They went 11-2 and #8. 1987 we beat Michigan State at home 31-3 and they ended up #8. In 1987, we played at Auburn and won 34-6 against a team that finished the season ranked #7. Not to mention a Fiesta Bowl victory against 10-2 Nebraska which really looked like a Nebraska home game as we didn’t show well. In 1991 we beat Michigan worse than they have ever been beaten at home 51-31 and they ended up the season at #6.
Whatever you think about Coach Bowden, he never shied away from anyone. Did you notice that both 1980 and 1981, both Nebraska games were away and that they never came to Doak? Did you notice that in 1983 and 1984 both Arizona State games were away with no return visit? Did you notice that in 1981 and 1982 both Ohio State games were away game with no return visit? Did you see that we have played Michigan twice in their stadium (1986 and 1991) and they have never come here? THAT is the kind of thing that makes you a road warrior.
Yes, there were a lot of patsies in the schedule, some were by design but some were that’s all we could get. By the mid 1980s, many people were already leery of scheduling FSU. Not that we won all the time and maybe we lost more than we won. But, we never backed away from anyone. We were like that scrappy little kid on the block that nobody wanted to egg on because he would never quit and he just might beat you.
Win, lose or draw, Coach Bowden and FSU punched enough big time programs in the face IN THEIR HOUSE to earn the title Road Warrior.
by GonzoNole on Mar 17, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Have to agree about the title and the whole purpose of the post
Take 1987, look at the schedule and you could just as easily spin those “patsies” into “playing only two teams with a non-winning record”. I’m glad Bobby has retired (willingly or not). He has left us with a ton of memories (good and bad). I just don’t understand how diminishing his legacy helps FSU now or in the future. BTW, I agree with the smart scheduling but can’t really remember us playing any juggernauts (outside of UFag) OOC in the last decade.
The Road Warrior/King of the Road legend is where most fans get the "anytime, anywhere" mentality.
So, I think the title is appropriate.
Gonzo, as much as I dislike you, I am also going to have to REC your comment because I agree.
That gives you 6 rec’s, and as much as it pains me to say this, very nice job and well said.You wrote it the way I remember it.
SLAMDUNK!
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
WBisaNOLE, that is not to say your post is not with merit, just that your title does not match your point.
The Road Warrior moniker was not a myth, it was well deserved and earned. As others have pointed out and you have have acknowledged, something like
Dispelling the myth that FSU never scheduled cupcakesor something along those lines, would have served your interest and fanpost better.
As I am sure you know, as the author, you are able to change the title if you wish, as can any of the editors, but we would not do that to your post.
Changing the title to your fanpost, that would have to be your decision to do so.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Don't be hatin'!
Sir Franklin,
If I get down to a home game this year, I’ll wash away all that animosity in a tide of Fat Tire Ale!
Pray Tell
Where will you be locating this Fat Tire? I didn’t think it was imported to this part of the country
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 22, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Mr. Spetman, if you drink Fat Tire, all is forgiven!
But I am surprised that you can’t buy it in Tallahasssee. Why they don’t have Fat Tire in Florida when you can enjoy a cold glass in Attapulgus, Georgia (the only thing you will enjoy in Attapulgus by the way) makes no sense! I guess will have to smuggle a few cases down from Atlanta. It will be like Smokey & The Bandit with Fat Tire instead of Coors. Oh, and a minivan instead of a Trans Am.
You left out Western Michigan in '91.
We thumped them 58-0 (mostly in the first half), then took a bye week before heading out to Ann Arbor.
by The K-Man on Mar 18, 2010 5:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah and those WMU girls were hot
Nothing like a couple of beer pounding corn fed mid-western honeys to make you swear off going to the Phyrst.
Perhaps I'm missing the point of this post...
…but what you’re saying is that we played five or six teams each year that weren’t real good. We do that every year, as does every other school in the country.
If you showed some evidence that our overall strength of schedule was low, then I’d understand.
My point
is that there are a lot of people criticizing TN for wanting FSU to schedule in a way that helps us win championships. The crux of the critics argument is that we didn’t schedule patsies during the golden era when Bobby would “play anyone, anywhere”. The fact of the matter is that we will have just as strong a schedule playing our conference games and UF, then scheduling some less challenging teams. When we were an independent, it gave the impression that somehow our schedule was much tougher because we scheduled a couple of good teams a year. Without a conference affiliation, of course you have to play a bunch of different teams. Just because we played “anyone” doesn’t mean that all those teams were tough competition.
Once we joined the ACC, we replaced a lot of the middle of the road teams we played as an independent with conference games. We also made sure we had the week off before the Florida game.
I didn’t have time to find actual strength of schedule data for those years. I’m just saying that this is a list of the “Anyones” that we played, and that a lot of those were home games rather than “Anywhere”. There will always be some fluctuation because of how far in advance certain games are scheduled, but some of the “Anyones” we played in the 80’s or 90’s had worse schedules than their reputation would suggest when you look back at it. For example, in 94, Notre Dame was 6-5-1 and unranked when we played them. I doubt that people thought that would be the case when they were scheduled. But it was a marquee game and played in Orlando, essentially a home game.
Even that 1981 5 game road trip included Notre Dame and LSU that had losing records that year. Looking back at it, FSU actually had a jump in the number of top 25 teams they played each year once they joined the ACC. When Miami joined the conference as well, that took one of the yearly OOC games and put it on our schedule in conference.
When your team is down
you have to schedule some tough OOC games to get national respect. Have a good year against your OOC schedule this year and people will take notice again. Get back the respect, then start scheduling National Championships. You have to come into the year ranked high to even sniff a NC, and the way to do that is handle “better” teams the previous year.
I’m not saying schedule a murderers row, but what you have this year is about right. Win your division, beat your OOC opponents, and you’ll be set up for next year. When you’re in the position your program is in, you’re setting up a run for the 2011 season. YOU’RE NOT WINNING A NC THIS YEAR FROM OUTSIDE THE TOP 20. That’s why I liked our schedule last year. We started unranked, I knew even with our schedule we weren’t winning a NC. We cracked the top ten, but even with an undefeated season we wouldn’t have passed Alabam or Texas. This year IF we can go undefeated we’ll have a shot because we got respect for winning our OOC games last year.
The same with the “River Boat Gambler” playcalling. During those years FSU wasn’t really THAT much more talented at every position. Bowden had to keep the opposing teams guessing. Once his roster was better at virtially every position, he could just line up and out talent the other team. That’s when FSU had almost every game won before the coin toss.
by Cane Ressurection on Mar 23, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the bottom line is "who cares if we went on the road the teams were sorry" so the title "road warriors" shouldn't apply.
It’s not gutsie to go to Brooklyn at night to fight a 12 year old girl with no weapon.
Yeah, right!
Maybe I am reading your comment wrong, but this statement makes no sense.
“who cares if we went on the road the teams were sorry” so the title “road warriors”
We went on the road and played the best teams in the country.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
upon re-reading the post, I've determined that I should get actual sleep and be consiouse for more than 2 minutes before posting.
Removing foot from mouth.
Yeah, right!
This is the most confusing thread ever.
It started off bordering on unreadable, then promptly unraveled.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 22, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking to current scheduling....
This points out the need to work our schedule into our favor. Playing all the big boys in out of conference games makes for great dinner table boasting, but is not good for winning championships. We have the most difficult out of conference game automatically built into our schedule with the gators. the ACC is not as easy as some want to believe. It is certainly more better than all those games we played as an Independent. Jimbo Fisher knows what he is talking about with the schedule. We should listen to him.
Well ....
….this post is woefully incomplete and ignores some key factors. A few points
1) As an independent, our pool of potential opponents was limited and we often ended up finding convenient scheduling with fellow independents.
2) I don’t know of anyone who has said that we didn’t play any patsies during the early Bowden years.
3) Why start with 1983? Oh, maybe it’s because from 1980 to 1982 we played:
LSU
Nebraska
Pitt
Virginia Tech
Nebraska
Ohio State
Notrre Dame
Pitt
LSU
Southern Miss (9-2-1)
Pitt
Ohio State
LSU
4) One of the HUGE factors you omit is how many of our tougher games were on the ROAD and how that factored into scheduling. When higher-level programs will only play you at their place, how are you supposed to fill out a home schedule without adding some lower-level teams? To wit, of those 13 opponents listed above, only 3 of the games were at home.
We played LSU FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS, all on the road.
Simply listing 4-6 weaker teams doesn’t really prove anything, it’s the high end of the schedule that shows our willingness to “play anyone anywhere.”
A fair question might be, how did FSU’s schedule match up with other southern independents?
Ivve always thought Virginia Tech in this time period was a good analog. I started in 1980 and looked at the first 5 years of the Hokies’ schedule.
Check them out for yourself:
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/schedule/1980
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/schedule/1981
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/schedule/1982
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/schedule/1983
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/schedule/1984
There is NO COMPARISON!
In most of those years, Virginia Tech couldn’t even put up two games that matched the difficulty of our rivarly games (which, oh by the way, can’t be just set aside like they don’t factor into our scheduling strength). Most years, there is only 1 top level program — at best — on the schedule, and sometimes that’s FSU!
I would challenge anyone to find any independent during this time fram that schedule more tough road games than FSU. Obviously, there is no conference team that could make that claim.
Simply listing the weakest opponents from our schedules in these years, doesn’t really prove anything.
by Fsued on Mar 17, 2010 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Once again,
I already gave credit for 1981.
I’m not saying that we didn’t play some tough teams. Perhaps the title of the post is the problem. I titled it this way out of frustration with the people that post comments about our current scheduling discussions with junk about needing to be “road warriors” again.
I also pointed out that we play just as many, if not more top 25 teams now as we did back then.
I gave credit for some of the top teams.
My main point is to show that we do not need to schedule a bunch of Out Of Conference games to prove anything. Even with the tough road games that we played back then, our schedule overall was not significantly more difficult than it is now. The myth part of the equation is that somehow those Anyone, Anywhere games made us a better team than we are now and if we would only schedule some games at Alabama and Texas, we would return to the glory days.
We still have Florida and Miami on our schedule. They accounted for two of our tough games throughout all the years we are discussing. They were set aside because we still play them. They don’t sway the argument either way. It is a wash because they are the common denominator.
BTW,
that list of teams for 80- 82 is impressive, but lacks some detail.
1980:
LSU was 7-4
we played Pitt in Tally
Va Tech was unranked
1981:
I have already said this was the year that created the “reputation”
however LSU was 3-7-1 that year
Notre Dame was 5-6
we only played 5 opponents in the top 25 that year
1982:
Played only 4 top 25 teams
Pitt was a home game for us again that year, see, we got people to come to Tally
why bring up that we played LSU 5 straight years without mentioning that LSU went 3-7-1 one of those years, 4-7 another, 7-5, and 7-4 two of the others with an 8 win season being the best of the bunch. Yes, good competition, but nothing to compare to the Nebraska games or Pitt at the time. we play teams like that in conference now (on the road too!)
I am not saying that we played a weaker schedule or were afraid to play people, I am saying that the Road Warrior days were not as extensive as some make them out to be and that as soon as Bobby had made his reputation, we were scheduling weak teams just as much or more than we do now. So to use the Road Warrior days as an argument for scheduling tough OOC games now days is a joke and not based on reality, hence a myth.
The problem with your argument
is you discount how difficult it was as an independent to schedule top teams. it’s not that FSU wasn’t willing or didn’t try. Road Warrior was an attitude, and it also spoke of our success against the big boys, at their place. We scheduled Michigan, twice, with no return. And Nebraska. And we scheduled Michigan State. And Syracuse. We tried to schedule ND and OSU and others, but they declined. The attitude was, indeed, that we would go to anybody’s house and play them. But as we got more successful, we insisted on reciprocity, and most teams were unwilling to come to Doak. Hence the need to join a conference.
Bring back Peter Tom- a true Nole!
by FiestaNole on Mar 18, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you think ...
that ANY conference game we play now is equivalent to playing the Dan Marino Pitt teams or the Turner Gill Nebraska teams, then this argument is officially over.
You created a straw man (“we never scheduled patsies”) then burned it. Congrats.
by Fsued on Mar 18, 2010 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
OK, another try at this
I did not create the straw man, I am simply responding to an argument that I have seen over the last year or so crop up in threads about scheduling. The “we need to get back to our roots, be road warriors” mentality that some people think will magically hand us a national championship. I am not so much trying to denigrate what the teams did during that era so much as point out that we still play a pretty high level of competition and that we don’t need to add more tough games. We simply need to win the games we have on the schedule now.
It is about people that claim they won’t go to Doak to watch us play a patsy. They went to watch us play patsies in the 80’s and 90’s because we were winning more, and it was hard to get a ticket to the big games so the patsies were the only game you could get into if you didn’t have season tickets or pay scalpers. Now they won’t go because we were just as likely to lose as to win over the last few years.
My point was that it was not like we played 11 games a year on the road against the top 11 teams in the country. The myth part of the equation is that some people act like our entire schedule back in the day was made up of dynasty teams at the peak of their power and that nobody ever came to little old Tallahassee.
in 1980 Pitt played at FSU and they and Nebraska were our only 10 win competition until the bowl game. In 1981 Pitt was the only team we played with 10 or more wins.
We were not in a conference then. Yes, that made it more difficult to schedule some teams. Great! I’m not saying that those were bad years or don’t deserve any recognition. I am saying that with the Road Warrior myth somehow is used to discredit our current scheduling and to claim that we need to start scheduling tough OOC games to return to our former glory.
As for conference games that rival the Pitt and Nebraska games, that is an all together different debate. We have played Miami, BC, Maryland, GT, and Virginia Tech when they had 11 win seasons just this decade in conference. We also play Florida every year OOC and they have been as good or better than the teams you mention the last few years. Just as you argue that we could not control who would play us as an independent, we cannot control how strong the conference competition will be year to year. Overall, you do have to stop looking at conference/out of conference distinctions and look at the overall strength of schedule.
That is exactly the point that is getting lost here. When people start complaining that we don’t get the Road Warrior mentality back and schedule Texas OOC, they forget that we are in a different situation now, and we do play a schedule that is equivalent or harder than we did back then. People are using the Road Warrior concept as a synonym for stronger scheduling.
I apologize it the title I used to get attention for this post has led to a misunderstanding. I have read some of your comments on other threads and so I don’t think we disagree like this thread makes it appear. Maybe I should have called it the strength of schedule myth.
I'm not jumping all over your assertion and kinda see your point. The title was probably a little too TMZ is the issue.
I understand the “straw man” that’s in question. There is a contingency of FSU fans (albeit the minority) that thinks it’s a sissy move to mimic UF’s scheduling. UF’s scheduling that’s won them 2 titles in recent years. I embrace the fact that our school took a different path to the top, but it’s time to honor our past while planning 2 steps ahead (something we haven’t done in a while, to say the least).
To talk sense into these folk, explain them the “pay now or pay later” concept. They long for the electric atmospheres at Doak, the big games, the must-have tickets. Cupcakes in the upcoming years won’t generate a buzz. They won’t sell out. But they WILL generate the ripple that becomes the crashing wave down the line. The 1996 FSU-UF environment (unparalled). The annual Miami “game of the century”.
A name brand/ranked opponent creates more buzz short term. But running off a double-digit win seasons, national respect, and highly ranked Seminole teams is paramount. The unsexy cupcakes are the quickest path.
Nobody can take away what Bobby and his Barbarians did in the previous decades. But it’s 2010 and we must address the long-term prognosis of what we can now accomplish.
I believe Bud's term is "Scheduling Cowardice"
It’s a necessary evil in today’s BCS environment. If the BCS penalized its teams for scheduling Scheduling Cowardice, that might help. BTW, good summation K-Man.
You're shooting yourself in the foot...
by not letting go of the phrase “Road Warrior Myth”. Please call it the “We Never Played Patsies!” myth. Or, you could have titled your post “No More Road Warriors”. You will clear the air that much faster. Bowden is widely recognized as the Road Warrior because we would “go anywhere and play anyone”. I guarantee you that while the program was in the 1980s, they NEVER turned down any school for any series.
It’s not that your point about suicidal scheduling being foolish is wrong. And anyone who wants to book a schedule like the 2010 is crazy. We no longer need or can afford to “Go Anywhere and Play Anyone”.
I've met Dan Marino a couple of times, and one time when I told him I was there to watch his Pitt team get beat by FSU, and he said he remembered the game
Florida State put its best feet forward and booted Pittsburgh from the unbeaten ranks 36-22 as Bill Capece kicked a school-record five field goals and John Stark averaged 48.1 yards on seven punts. Capece’s three-pointers were from 24, 43, 50, 30 and 44 yards. Stark, who boomed one punt 67 yards, would have had an even higher average had he not settled for a 25-yarder that rolled out of bounds at the Pitt 12.
The Panthers, shooting for their 15th consecutive victory, scored first when Dwight Collins caught a 39-yard pass from Dan Marino, whose 18 completions in 34 tries covered 286 yards. The Seminoles, who’d beaten Nebraska the previous week, pulled off their second major upset in a row with the aid of a flexible offense that included plays that could be run either to the left or the right. Quarterback Rick Stockstill, aware that the Pitt defense often overloads to one side, checked off more than half his plays at the line to take advantage of this. He passed for three touchdowns, and his runners went for 163 yards—123 of them by Sam Platt—against a defense that had been yielding an average of only 31 yards a game on the ground. Completing the job was a Florida State defense that forced five fumbles, recovering four of them, and gave up just 86 yards on the ground.
And then he said, “Yea but then I beat you guys the next 2 years” which he did and I am surprised he remembered.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I am Irish and have been enjoying the holiday, but.....
I have to nominate this as the ABSOLUTELY DUMBEST post that I have read on TN
Are you referring to the previous post by FSUsed, or the fanpost in general?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 17, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This is FAR from the dumbest post in TN history.
Crack open a Guinness with your corned beef hash and check out this rascal:
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/9/10/1023593/fsus-first-lost-is-fools-gold
by The K-Man on Mar 18, 2010 5:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah' nextlevel. Fun times to read the circles being run around on the posting boards.
Was that poster also TheChi?
"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"
Was he banned?
Or did he decide to save face and leave? It took a fair amount of criticism (justified) and kept returning. I can’t believe he bailed just because we weren’t undefeated going into the swamp…haha
I think he was mercifully not allowed to post anymore.
For kicks, go back and check his post-BYU game Fanpost. Frank was trying to hold him to his 8-4 preseason prediction (based on percentage of winning each game), but he fought back and wanted 10-2 on the record. He then goes on to mock Frank’s 7-5 formula. A couple other folks chime in with some great stuff that came true. Some of his quotes are timeless. Like this one:
“The defense is slowly getting better and if you honestly think FSU will remain at 111th in pass defense as the line gets better while facing teams without the sosphiscated passing attack of BYU then bet against them and see what happens.”
He’s probably a cyborg sent back in time by Bodog to execute their greedy mission.
As was posted here before, he was the only member ever banned for being too optimistic.
Other sites ban members who are too negative, this is what makes TN different and unique.
Not really, the reason he was banned was because he continually disrespected other members and mocked their comments.
And yes, he did start out as TheChi, and then after he was brought back down to earth, he opened a new account as nextlevel, as if to think no one would recognize his rhetoric and that the mod’s don’t know how many accounts each member has and where they are posting from.
He was the author of one of TN’s all-time greatest quotes, something like
I guarantee we will be undefeated heading into the Swamp. PERIOD!
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I'm calling BS on your basic premise
If you had said that we could schedule a couple of patsies in 2010 and still have as tough a schedule as we had during the 80s, then you could perhaps be right. We played some poor teams then, and I’m sure we’ll play some poor teams in the future.
But you instead imply that we purposefully scheduled a bunch of patsies during the 80s, pointing to the fact that LSU, Notre Dame, et al turned out not to be in top form the years we played them. Well how in the world could we have known how good these perennial powers were going to be when we scheduled these games? And you can make light of LSU’s overall record in some of the years we played them, but going into Baton Rouge five times in a row was quite a challenge at the time for a program like ours.
Florida State’s reputation during the 80s for going anywhere to play anybody was justly deserved, and your attempt to undermine it is way off base.
Thanks for the catch
I had gotten carried away with trying to say something different for each year and went back and changed that one when I saw I had repeated my segue from another year.
I really shouldn’t do this at work, never can write a post all at once.
I can't speak for the "old timers," but...
…I don’t know too many “old school guys” at TN who think we should play anyone, anytime, anywhere in this day and age of college football. I seriously don’t know why this debate continues at TN. Will the person or persons who think Florida State should schedule three to four national powers on their OOC schedule please raise their hand so I can figure out who we’re railing against? Fsued and FiestaNole have already set WBisa straight on his/her history lesson, now we just need to know who s/he was preaching to. Anyone? Does anyone not agree that USF was boneheaded? Air Force just plain stupid? Has anyone recently posted that we should add the likes of USC, Texas, and Alabama to future schedules, alongside rising state powers and B-rate programs on the other side of the country?
I’ve seen two positions on TN: 1) Three cupcakes and UF. 2) Two cupcakes, UF, and someone like West Virginia, Texas A&M, Chick-fil-A game, occassionally. Is this the debate? Really? Is this what has spurred “Dispelling the ‘Road Warrior’ Myth,” to be read by young Noles and rival fans across the web? No way. Say it ain’t so.
If there’s a third party somewhere on TN, actively pursuing a return to the glory days by means of out-of-control scheduling of top teams – perhaps because it understands a thing or two about sports media, the Nole fanbase, and may even know a little more about football than what is required to enter into a Google search – than I would say that perhaps that party, though well-intentioned, is a bit overzealous. But I haven’t met a single Tomahawk Nation reader who has gone to that extreme. Every member I know looks to the future of Florida State football and opines on how to protect its best interests, whether young or old, knowledgable of his history or a casual contributor to the hot topic. These TN members know a thing or two about repeating success without any sense of loyalty to the “glory days,” I assure you.
And I swear I thought this article would be about former tag team greats, Hawk and Animal. I know I wasn’t the only one. Major disappointment.
by TRMNole on Mar 18, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
H&A were great, sorry I didn't post about them
This definitely taught me to do my posting at home where I can work it out better and edit it so it says what I want to say without quite so much controversy.
I also disagree with the history lesson comment. They are cherry picking to support their argument as much as folks are accusing me of doing. I should have titled it relating to Strength of Schedule though to be more clear.
This post wasn’t so much for the guys like you, but for this type of thing:
Stop it. U sound like a Gate.
No need to stoop to their level. That is not FSU. Never has been. We will be good enough to dominate any OOC soon. We don’t need 8 home games, not leave our stadium in 20 years, & play 3 HS teams every year. That is them, not us. Some of the best Nole games & memories ever were OOC regular season power games. Why lower our standards to try to back our way in to a NC game like them? That is not our style. Bama played Va Tech last year & Penn St this year. I’m sooo pumped about this OU game in 10/11! USF last year was the biggest sell-out at Doak since the 05 Miami game. Games like that are fun for our players & our fans. I hope we don’t play some bs HS teams every year like the turds!
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
There were a couple of others in a thread a few days ago that I don’t have time to look up right now. Anyway, I enjoyed the back and forth, but really didn’t mean for this to get out of hand, I respect those teams of the early 80’s immensely. I just think we tend to get blinders on. It was impressive back then because nobody expected it of us. It doesn’t mean as much to “play anyone, anywhere” when you are the big dog. Of course you will! I look at is as an admission of how far we have fallen if we have to start going on the road to prove ourselves all over again.
Just so you know, never any hard feelings. Just playing on the internet - if there's no controversy or things never get out of hand, things get boring. We're passionate here.
And yeah, I think you put a lot of the issues in their proper perspective. Oh, and you had me at, "H&A were great, sorry I didn’t post about them." Though I think Hawk’s dead. That kinda sucks.
Road Warrior Myth???
This is the craziest team message board I ever seen. Are we sure everyone here actually likes Garnet and Gold. ;-)
At least this scorned…errrrr, youngster, errrrr, I mean poster was sufficiently put in his place.
“Road Warrior Myth” too funny.
Gripper
Looking forward to your first Fanpost. Can't wait.
by The K-Man on Mar 18, 2010 7:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
K-Man
Tried to read your re-post. My God, I couldn’t believe how many people actually got through the thing and commented on it. That was some seriously crazed verbosity. Almost had to put some "Irish’ in my coffee to get through it.
One of the first things that I always tried to teach my kids was that when you make a mistake:
A.) own up to it instead of making excuses
2.) learn from it
D.) don’t do it again!
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