FSU Defensive Ends: A Work In Progress
As first discussed here by Bud earlier this week in his Will Mark Stoops Bring The Pass Rush Back To Florida State?, both Ira Schoffel and Andrew Carter have written about our less than stellar defensive end play last season and some of the things D.J. Eliot is doing to get the DE's back to the level of our some of our past greats.
Some quotes from Ira's story I found interesting include;
"Of the Seminoles' 26 total sacks last fall, a grand total of four — yes, four — were recorded by defensive ends. Two were recorded by former Seminole Kevin McNeil and two were tallied by Markus White, a rising senior."
And as we have discussed here many times,
"Along with improving their pass-rushing fundamentals, Eliot also is focusing on helping the defensive ends play better in run support. In 2009, FSU's ends often seemed to rush too far upfield and would lose contain of opposing running backs.
While part of that was a result of poor fundamentals, White said it also stemmed from an undisciplined mindset."
Also,
Said Jenkins: "We're more physical right now than last year."
And,
"And he (White) is perhaps most excited about lining up this spring at his old left end position. FSU had him on the right side each of the past two seasons."
Finally, from AC's Chopping Block, we might be starting to see how the depth chart at DE could possibly sort itself out.
White, a rising senior, likely has the left DE spot wrapped up. But the other side is wide open. Rising sophomore Brandon Jenkins has been working there, among others.
Jenkins, listed at 234 pounds, likely needs to get bigger, though. Jenkins enrolled early and a productive spring last year, but then was lost in the shuffle during the season.
"I was nervous – a true freshman," Jenkins said. "But as the season went on, I went and got better. I got comfortable."
In addition to Jenkins, Dan Hicks is also working at right end, coach Jimbo Fisher said.
Click here to read Ira's full story.
Click here to read AC's full story.
about 2 years ago
FrankDNole
63 comments
0 recs |
Comments
Amazing
“We didn’t emphasize (stopping) the run as much as we do now,” White said. “We all wanted to come out here and play defensive end to get sacks, versus getting off of blocks and making tackles. It’s a little different.”
When looking at how we were getting gashed by the run how does the coaching staff not emphasize stopping the run? Posters on the site have more football sense than some of the old coaches.
My apologies to White and others
Last year I criticized the defense often and loudly for undisicplined play. This spring I learn that the defensive coaches dropped the ball – no playbook, no coordinated practice of tackles and ends, too much emphasis on rushing upfield, too little emphasis on contain responsibliities. I’m sorry for the players, who deserved better. I don’t blame Mickey so much, because I know his situation, and that he was asked to stay. The others – I do blame.
I am very hopeful that the talent level is high enough for good coaching this spring to bring us back
Mickey wasn't working for free.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"
Hmm. True.
I do feel very bad for Mickey and what his family has gone through, but if his performance was going to be so compromised, he should have declined to stay – regardless of who asked him to. It does seem that too much junk has been coming out about the previous staff’s failures, and as DC Mickey is ultimately responsible.
I do forgive him, though. He gave us many years of service, and we had some killer Ds during his tenure (too many 15-yard penalties, but many more big plays).
If he didn't come back
CTC would have been our DC. And then there would be a huge push by Bowden and his supporters to get rid of Fisher and let Bowden keep running the team until he wanted to pass it off to CTC. That’s why some people think Fisher is the one who asked Mickey to stay. For this reason I applaud Mickey, he did it for the better of the program even though it was tough for him and his family and it also put a blemish on his defensive legacy. He was classy enough to put FSU ahead of his pride unlike Bowden that’s my take on this whole situation.
by BS37FSU on Mar 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Ugh
I can’t fathom that happening. I would have organized a boycott of the university until things had been rectified. Sometimes you have to hit people where it hurts to get their attention.
Oh, wait – that’s what we all did, considering the lame attendance at the final home games of the season last year! But now, let’s fill that stadium to the rim…
the Blind Homers will point out how only a few hundred people wore the black shirts to protest...
That’s where their blindless ignored the 28,000 silver bleacher spots baking in the sun.
by The K-Man on Mar 27, 2010 7:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The crickets
Had their black shirts on too…
by NoleySmokes on Mar 27, 2010 7:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Very much agreed
Juggernaut, Definition: Christian Ponder
EJ's response to his own role in 2010 Offense: "You still haven't seen what all (Ponder) can do."
Ponder's 09 regular season projections pre-injury: 21 TD: 2 Int, 3738 yards
True but
But a DC only has so much time. MA had a position of his own, reducing the amount of time he had to spend on the other spots. I just can’t see Allen or Amato following instructions if MA tells them to focus on fundamentals and then walks away. Allen wouldn’t know what to coach and Amato would have just ignored him.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 26, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds more like
He wasn’t working at all. Just spitting on guys and telling them, “make plays, dadgummit!”
by NoleySmokes on Mar 27, 2010 7:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice to hear that they are learning to use their hands to shed blockers.
Makes you wonder what they were teaching the ends last year.
See the link to the right on this page?
“Bowden: Defensive end Kevin McNeil must give better effort.”
I could have more sympathy for Bowden’s decline over the last decade if (a) he wasn’t so defensive, insulting and vindictive, (b) he didn’t play off TK’s friendship to stay in power, © he was more loyal to FSU than to his buddies on the staff, (d) he was humble enough to admit his “CEO approach” wasn’t working anymore and he wasn’t earing the 2+ Large he was getting paid every year, and (e) kids under his care were being harmed in the process.
Bring back Peter Tom- a true Nole!
by PeachTreeNole on Mar 26, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"weren't"
nm
Bring back Peter Tom- a true Nole!
by PeachTreeNole on Mar 26, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Fiesta
Rec’d your comment AND your sig line
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 26, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello Everybody...Long time lurker
I will preface this post by saying that although I am well aware of the fantabulous A2D format, I will forgoe the standard as I am not yet a regular and I will not A2D until I feel that I’ve earned it.
With that out of the way….I read the Bowden / McNeil post and my reaction can only be described as Hot Blooded Rage. I’ve gotten to know some of the players over the last few seasons on a personal level and I have been regaled with all sorts of horror stories (mainly surrounding Amato) but this account is just awful.
What kind of self respecting head coach, or MAN for that matter would:
- Call out a 20 year old (who is supposed to be under your charge) in the public light
- place blame on the lowest level employee for the glaring deficiencies of his superiors
- promote negative rumors about said 20 year old
I really hope the players that are left haven’t been irreperably damaged by the previous regime.
by Caveman Mafia on Mar 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome
Nice post. I will also say this, feel free to share the Amato stories, I always love to hear them. Im sure Im not the only curious person, although I understand if they were told in confidence.
Without going into too many details...
Mr. Amato once made his views on inter-racial couples abundantly clear at a social gathering of players, coaches, and families. I never liked him much as I played witness to a few of his recruiting practices, but this incident cemented him in my mind as a really bad guy.
by Caveman Mafia on Mar 26, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
IN-f'n-SANE
How does that come up in conversation? What makes something think they can just wade in on that subject in a setting like that? I am convinced that dude wasn’t all there. Maybe he bad some disease from House that altered his brain functions.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
These are resilient young men.
We must continue to be supportive, i’m sure the vast majority of these guys will do fine.Granted, they shouldn’t have been put in this situation in the first place.
uhhh...i have seen that link
which is why i made the sarcastic joke -
Pretty amazing
That Dakoda and P Rob are still high draft picks!
by NoleySmokes on Mar 27, 2010 7:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The CEO approach still works
It was not at FSU, but to blanket that to say that menthod does not work is wrong
So it is being defensive if a coach points out a player is not living up to potential? Some of you work it both ways, like politicians, in your arguments. First it is Bowden does not know what it is going on, then when he does and comments on something, you say he was just being insulting and vindicitve
TK got rid of Bowden ultimately, so I would not say playing off his friendship meant much. I doubt any university president would have fired Bowden any sooner.
The kids being harmed notion is so lame. I am tired of that BS. They still got good national exposed, free education, good facilities, food, etc. Many players who have gone to much worse programs have worked hard and gone on to the NFL. Look at the roster of some top NFL teams and you will see many schools from IAA schools or lower. The NFL scouts do not care what the team did. Dekota Watson was a three star recruit, and I think he will be just fine in the NFL draft. Patrick Robinson was not harmed either. Yet let Bowden or some other former coaches try to light a fire under some players a**es to motivate them, and that is harming them?
Does not work when you have other coaches getting after it
I had no problems saying McNiel needed to step it up.
The kids were definitely robbed of the college experience they were promised. They are making the league solely on their athletic ability. Our staff was arguably the worst in the entire country.
Do you actually feel
that it is acceptable behavior for a seventy year old football coach to use the media to drive home a point to a twenty year old player of his? No coach of mine ever used sarcastic remarks in a print media interview to motivate me…or do you advocate teaching children and young adults via facebook status updates?
Now on to, “The kids being harmed notion is so lame”….Oh boy. How many young men lost their potential professional football careers to the ineptitude of this program over the last seven to eight years? The players and families who entered this program over the last decade were deceived into believing in Mr. Bowden’s house of cards. How dare you so callously toss aside the trust that these young men instilled upon the previous regime? Coach Bowden used to look a father in the eyes and say, “I will do everything in my power to make sure your boy becomes as successful as possible, on and off the field.” That spiel used to mean something…and hundreds of young men believed him. I am certain that you do not believe that Mr. Bowden did everything in his power to bring success into the lives of these young men over the course of “the lost decade”. Four years of “Go make a Play” does not mold teenagers into Men….
by Caveman Mafia on Mar 27, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
TK didn't want to get rid of Bobby
and would have been perfectly content not dealing with the issue at all and leaving it for the new prez
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 28, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this a demotion for White
Is it fair to say you line your best DE up on the right side – and by moving White to the left side – it is the coach’s admission that he is not the best we have?
SDE is traditionally better in run support
White is best suited for an edge rushing WDE which makes this a good move, IMO.
>>---l>
Actually White played right defensive end last year, which is where u put your best pass rusher because that is typically the QBs blind side. He’s being moved this year to LDE and Jenkins is playing RDE.
by Quentin C on Mar 26, 2010 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True
But the contrary to that is it is also where the offense puts the best tackle. He is being moved to his more natural position. He had 24.5 sacks as LDE as a freshman and in the two years since he has had 4. I don’t know about you but I would much rather him be comfortable in his system and play where he is going to make plays.
"You play to WIN the GAME"
I know he played SDE last year
He is being moved to the weak side this year, which is normally where the lighter, pass rush first, kind of guy is positioned. SDE is usually a heavier guy more suited to play run support.
>>---l>
With White at WDE
leads me to think Werner and Cummings will be splitting time at the SDE position, both are 275+ and will probably be 280 by the start of the season. If this is the case, thats a huge size upgrade from last year.
WDE-White-270+
DT-McCray-310+
DT-JMac-300+
SDE-Werner/Cummings-280+
by Carryingaspearorrunningfromit on Mar 27, 2010 2:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thank God
We’ve been manhandled since Bunkley and Dockett left.
by NoleySmokes on Mar 27, 2010 7:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
White will be playing Strongside a lot
Werner/Cummings won’t start.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 27, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I say, put the players in the best position to make plays.
If White feels better on the left side, that’s the position he’ll most likely make plays.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
by tricknole on Mar 26, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
White is probably going to be 270+ lbs when the season starts
making him a good candidate to set the edge.
White is happy
and does not appear to consider the change back to where he used to play, a demotion. Is he left handed or right handed? Which arm is the one that he is used to using more and on which side does that make him more valuable? Does he feel more comfortable on the left side? These are not Socratic questions, intended to lead to a particular answer, but an honest inquiries.
Most teams align the TE to the RT side because the LT is typically better and needs less help.
We want him to stone that TE and set the edge with his newly improved bulk.
I am LOVING Dan Hicks
Kid’s going to really exceed expectations by the time he’s done at FSU, IMO.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Mar 26, 2010 4:58 PM EDT reply actions
If he's anything like his daddy
We’ll have a good one…
by NoleySmokes on Mar 27, 2010 7:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he already is
Most here at TN have heard of him but in the rest of Seminole Nation he’s a virtual unknown.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 27, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It still makes me a little nervous
That Jenkins and Stevens are that small… 220-234/240.
Stone that TE and set the edge with his newly improved bulk.
Aha! I have learned more and I now have my “word of the week” to throw at my Nole buddies to show how plugged in I am to what is happening at Spring Practice.
Setting the edge forces the runner to take more lateral steps which slows him down in many cases
meaning our guys have the opportunity to catch him
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it and "Stone" remains my word of the week for the guys.
I had never before heard this terminology. This strategy should work especially well against an option offense such as GT, preferably in the ACCCG. I know. We must crawl before we can walk.
It also forces the back to cutback sooner than he would like by forcing the play back toward the inside.
Which is where most of the defenders are so it allows the pursuit to hunt him down.
EXACTLY
As 504nole pointed out, it forces a cutback into a mass of large, angry bodies. The other alternative is that the runner has to try to bounce outside as Bud said, giving up ground in the process. If a ballcarrier gives ground to reach the edge this season…..they should be SWARMED over for a loss or no gain 90+% of the time. The pursuit angles our defense took the last 2 years SUCKED ASS……cutback lanes for days.
All this is predicated on the DE’s being able to TRULY “set the edge”……meaning establish outside leverage with minimal movement on kickout blocks from the OT/TE/pulling OG/FB, while keeping their outside arm free, staying parallel to the line of scrimmage, and being athletic enough to redirect for outside runs/bounce/busted plays/play-action pass.
Simple………….right??
:-D
Oderint Dum Metuant
by DRusso97 on Mar 28, 2010 3:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Forgot about that....
Spiller had about 30 different routes to the end zone to pick from. It was like a rat in a maze where EVERY SINGLE ROUTE takes you to the cheese without fail…..
Oderint Dum Metuant
by DRusso97 on Mar 29, 2010 12:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Please clarify
Elsewhere I thought you mentioned them being tackles for spring because all the new players were not there yet. Is that what you still mean, or do you now know they are tackles for the whole year for sure?
I mean for now they are playing DT
and I expect them to be tackles this year. The new players will NOT contribute at tackle this year barring some miracle.
Except for McCloud right? I figured he will get some PT being older & here early
GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!
So the coaches will go with the experience
over the size I take it. I guess the articles about size threw me off, because McAllister definitely sounds too small.
Yes, but I also read
Where it was not just a matter of strength, but actual size to take up space, so I assumed McCloud would get a chance to compete for big time, as well as possibly others in the summer, if they learned quick enough.
































