College Football Look In
by Bud Elliott on Mar 29, 2010 10:00 AM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintFrom time to time I like to take a look at what is happening across the college football landscape. It helps us keep up with our opponents, and it helps you impress your friends. I apologize for the rather informal nature of this piece.
Clemson is having an interesting Spring. It appears that Kyle Parker will be a very high 1st round pick in the baseball draft if he continues on his torrid pace. Will he continue at this pace? If he does, will he elect to turn pro? The guys at ShakinTheSouthland.com can't tell you that, but they know pretty much everything else about Clemson. Here are some early observations from Dr. B. New WR (Bad), OLine (blah), Running backs (studly), defensive line (tremendous), linebackers (average- generously), defensive backs (very good). And here are some notes from their Spring Scrimmage.
With the recent transfer of a former Freshman All-American Offensive Tackle, Tennessee has now lost its quarterback (also lost the backup as well), its top running back (Hardesty), its young stud back Bryce Brown, top wide receiver, top tight end, ALL 5 starting offensive linemen, multi-year starter at defensive tackle, 1st round defensive tackle/ nose guard, 2 starting linebackers, and its best two defensive backs left school early for the NFL draft (Eric Berry). But they do return a fullback. Perhaps Kiffin made a great choice? More at RockyTopTalk.com
Alabama coach Nick Saban is toying with the idea of potentially trying wide receiver Julio Jones as... - Roll 'Bama Roll
Alabama is trying receivers at safety. This is probably why they are looking good for 2011 safety Hasean Clinton-Dix. Luckily for the 'Noles, FSU already has several stud prospects at the position.
Florida has had an up and down Spring practice. They lost a ton of great players. Jon Bostic has looked great at linebacker, but the defensive line has not been particularly impressive (this could be an adjustment year until their ridiculous defensive line recruiting class of 2010 gets acclimated). Brantley is still trying to find chemistry with his wideouts. He has an impressive arm but could need time. The best units are clearly the offensive line and the defensive backs. This team still has a lot of talent but has a bunch of questions for the first time in quite a while.
Miami had its Spring Game Saturday. Jacory Harris missed Spring due to a thumb injury, but my take is that Miami is going to be a pretty good team. They could have serious offensive line problems, but they should still have top 25 or better offenses and defenses. The defense could be particularly good, depending on their linebacker play. The wide receivers are ridiculous.
Boston College is actually looking pretty good. They return 4 of 5 offensive linemen including one of the best tackles in the country in Costanzo. They return a 25 year-old quarterback who will now be in his 2nd season. They have Montel Harris back at running back. The defense returns its best 2 linemen, the ACC rookie of the year in linebacker Luke Keulchy, and get back All-American 'backer Mark Herzlich (cancer). With 16 returning starters, the Eagles will be in the hunt for the Atlantic title and Clemson must travel to BC the week after they face Georgia Tech.
Deacons working on return to option Riley Skinner is gone and Wake will go back to its old option game. Wake's rushing offense has been o the decline in recent years and this could help. Our own Wake blog has a great recap of Wake's scrimmage. I really don't see Wake being very good this season. The way they developed low-rated high school talent for a few years just isn't repeatable over many years. I don't wanna say they got lucky for a few years, but... I just don't see them being competitive with FSU any time in the near future. On defense, they must replace both defensive tackles, 2 linebackers, and their best corner. They also lost 3 of their starting offensive linemen.
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Kyle Parker is very, very good
Watched him play this weekend. Obviously he can mash, but he’s an extremely versatile first baseman. Could play a number of positions at the next level. There was a pick-off throw that went up the line to the first-base side fence, and the runner took second and went for third. Parker picked the ball up against the wall and threw a 250 foot strike to third. The runner was safe, but wow, I have never seen a first baseman throw a ball like that before.
>>---l>
The only thing the Clemson Folk have to say is
That Parker has no real natural position. Having not seem him play I assume he has a cannon for an arm and huge offensive potential but is a defensive liability.
"You play to WIN the GAME"
I think part of that is the amount of time he spends away from baseball
He seems to have more than enough athletic ability to be a very good corner infielder or outfielder. I haven’t seen him take ground balls or break of fly balls, but a lot of that is repetition, which he isn’t getting a lot of as a D-1 quarterback for half of the year.
>>---l>
He has played the primarily in the OF the last 2 seasons and this season
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
How many times have you seen Hultzen pitch this season?
Which outing was his most impressive?
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Only once, unfortunately
An 8 inning, 3H performance against BC. The kid is dominant. I’ll see him go in 2 weeks against GT.
>>---l>
Does MLB even care if you have a position?
You are going to be in the minors for at least a year anyway. And lets not forget both Manny Ramirez and Jose Canseco played in the outfield. If a ball goes off your head for a homerun and you played in the Majors I am sure Parker can play somewhere lol.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 29, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
Which is why guys like Stuart Tapley won’t appeal to every team
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Yea its pretty important
However the MLB more then any other sports league drafts so much off potential that it is possible that he could develop into a solid positional player given his freak athletic ability. He isn’t a DH but needs a position…
"You play to WIN the GAME"
I just dont know enough about him
I’ve heard he has a cannon for an arm and has decent speed but that he doesn’t necessarily feel absolutely comfortable on a baseball diamond unless he is in the batters box. I dont doubt that most of that is because he doesn’t get to practice day in and day out on the diamond. Typically the type athlete he is projects as a outfielder but I dont want to pass judgement because I just don’t feel I have the expertise on the subject matter.
"You play to WIN the GAME"
Yea, I still think they put too much emphasis on it
Especially in stats like WAR
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Funny how that works....
The more you crush at the plate, the better fielder you become.
If he stays he's an idiot. He's a far better baseball prospect than he is a football prospect.
He’s actually a baseball prospect, where as in football, he’s an AFL prospect.
Tools Whore
I'm too young to remember the pre-Skinner wake offense
Kind of like what WVU does?
Speak softly, and carry a big Spear
by tdchrisdavis on Mar 29, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Kind of hope Wake doesn't fall completely off the map
I don’t want Wake to ever get close to be elite, but I would like for them to stay just north of 500. Having teams like Wake, BC, NC State or Duke make bowls on a fairly consistent basis will help bolster the case of any ACC team in the title picture.
I'm OK with Wake falling completely off the map
at least against us. No love lost for those guys. And we already have BC, Clemson, and Miami on our ACC schedule every year. And UF as an OOC every year. Especially until we can correct our OOC scheduling – having a few easy games on our schedule would be welcome news.
Sure, root for ACC teams in bowl games – but having a ton of ACC teams in bowl games 2 years ago didn’t really change the perception of our conference all that much. We need to have a bellcow or two program in the ACC competing for BCS national championships – that’s how we’ll get the respect we want as a conference. And we need to be one of those teams.
by GraniteStateNoles on Mar 29, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
2 years ago
The killer then was that nobody was elite. If we would have had a 1 or 2 loss team in the conference people would have saw it all completely different.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 29, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't have ten 8-4 teams making a bowl AND one beast team in top 5
Its an either-or situation bc there has to be a trade off in wins. And the best situation is definitely two kings leading over a few pawns, versus a bunch of rooks anyone can knock off.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't think it was 10 8-4 teams
You can have several 8-4 teams and one beast team easily enough. You just need the 8-4 teams to drop games to the same team. Or a conference big enough so the top team doesn’t have to play all the 8-4 teams. For example, Miami, VT, GT, UNC and Clemson could all go 8-4 and FSU could run the table by only having 3 games against that group.
But since you only know 6 or 7 wins to make a bowl anyway, you could easily have a conference where most teams vary from 6 to 8 wins and one team is head and shoulders above them. It would be just like the Pac 10 was.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The SEC just did
There was a 14-0 and 13-1 followed by 2 teams at 9-4, 3 teams at 8-5, and 3 teams at 7-6. Only three of these teams (Bama, UF, and LSU) were above .500 in conference play and four of them were below .500 which means a watered down OOC schedule protected against the trade off in wins among conference opponents.
by Jamil Dawson on Mar 29, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I have the opposite because people typically look only at elite teams.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 29, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct
Does anybody remember what ole miss or auburn did last year? But what about Bama and UF
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Mar 29, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
If duke wins it all next Mon night, everybody forgets the “down” yr the ACC had. The story changes to back-to-back NCs for the ACC.
The media and casual fan only cares about the top teams
Hypothetically, if all the teams in the ACC were the 30th-50th best teams in the country the conference would be one of the strongest in the nation. But the media would act like it was one of the worst.
People judge a conference based on how many title contenders there are, when I think it should be how hard it would be to beat all teams in a conference.
For instance, if conference A has two great teams and 8 bad ones, the media would treat it like some superconference. But a conference with 7 solid teams and 3 bad ones would be treated like a mid major cupcake conference.
Perception is more important than reality, sadly.
Speak softly, and carry a big Spear
I do and I have mentioned it
They lost by five points to Alabama and played them a lot tougher than Florida did. By the end of the season Auburn was a good football team.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Basically the ACC's "Bellcow" needs to be us or scUM
Thats the easiest way to change perception, two tradional powers becoming marquee attractions once again (Even though personally I hope ‘duh ewwww’ falls off planet earth. F them!). That will make people shine a light over the conference as a whole. From a indiviual player perspective:The ACC may produce the top 2 DT’s in the 2011 Draft. The ACC will get no credit as it’s get no credit for producing the top DE and RB in this year’s draft
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 29, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
Finally
westcoast is the first one I’ve seen here to state that the best case scenario for ACC is FSU or UM being the lead dogs again. Although, one bone to pick is that IMO Va Tech has now reached that status nationally as well. Recent history (for better or worse) has dictated that a dominant Clemson, Ga Tech, BC or UNC just won’t bring the national perception to our league the way a top dawg FSU or UM would.
Feel free to replace the above teams with Iowa, Wash St, Texas Tch, Wake, nameless team that lost 1-2 games in a season. Its a ‘fun story’ when one of the lesser teams in each big conference does well…or even the Boise St of the world for that matter…but its also just as much an attack on the big boys of that conference when the little brothers are the ones in the spotlight.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryno, you need to log on more, brotha!
We’ve had a bunch of good discussions on this topic. In fact, I think the “rise of the acc” piece had some good content/discussion associated with it
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe I'm wrong
It just seems that the discussion over the past year has always been “complete and total obliteration and/or elimination of the UM football program.”
While that situation would indeed be good for FSU, I just thought it was near sighted in realizing the best outcome for the FSU AND ACC combined. Like, say the rising tide raises all “well-oiled, fully gassed, loaded with bait & tackle” ships motto
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What is best for the ACC isn't what is best for FSU
Yes the best possible outcome for the ACC is for FSU and UM to go back to being top 5 programs added to VT, GT, Clemson and UNC being top 15-25 programs in the polls. But that sucks for FSU and is not something to root for. Even if that happens and the ACC catches the SEC on the field, the SEC basically emptied the bank in the media contracts and we won’t catch them. So we should root for what is good for the ACC instead, which is a dominant FSU with a couple of good teams after that. Miami falling off leaves more talent for FSU which means more wins, titles and draft picks which all bring more attention.
UM staying on top would be good for FSU the same way Bama rising was good for UF. The Tide basically cost the Gators back to back titles and their first undefeated season.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 29, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
I wasn’t taking the position of what is best for ACC = what is best for FSU. My position is more in terms of two concentric circles where ACC concedes a little, FSU concedes a little and whats left in the middle is the best outcome for both parties.
I think I made the mistake of imposing my argument instead of what was best in building the media’s perception. The best outcome based on the media’s perception of FSU is that they have at least one more dog in the fight that they can pit against a top five noles team…as every good story has to have the good v. evil where X number of people for one team versus X number for the other in order build interest. Otherwise, no one’s watching ACC league games.
Given the situation of the league today and how we expect teams to compete in the future, within three years FSU should be in the position to be the flag bearer of the conference…in which we have what is best for FSU AND the ACC combined.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I agree. They're 2 entirely different things.
However, I think we really have nothing to worry about with Shannon down there.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Which begs the question
Whats more important: The perception of the ACC or the perception of FSU? I know folks would like to see the perception of the ACC change so we are shown in a different light. But thats secondary to me. I made my comment based on the fact that the national media is waiting with baited breath to see FSU and/or Miami become prominent again.
My thinking? Our staff should do everything in their power to plunder MIami and invade their talent base because UM isn’t built for the long haul anyway, so f**k em. I’m more concerned with FSU’s ability to ascend in the ‘Money’ era of CFB than anything else. I’d rather win11 games and the ACC sucks perception wise than win 8 and the league is perceived as strong. It’s a hard proposition I know, because everyone wants another title (Thats what folks are getting at, otherwise why would we be bringing up the ACC’s perceived strength) but we gotta get put together a program that can actually be in that position first
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 29, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
With a favorable schedule including likely 2-3 top 20 teams in league play & UF on the OOC, and FSU should be the program that we all want, without having any need to defend the quality of the ACC. Nat Championships make every counter argument moot.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I would probably bet money that the answer on an FSU board will be different than what the rest of the ACC would give.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How much?
Like say, $170,000 in litigation fees?
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But look at it like this
Take USC as a example. They sucked for years because they didn’t have the right captain leading the ship. They lost a lot of Southern California talent to teams like Washington and Colorado (Who both ended up winning shares of NC’s subsequently). Once USC got the right guy (Carroll) they won shares of two NC’s, played for a 3rd and won several Rose Bowls and pounded traditional powers like OU, Michigan and OSU in the process. This is all while playing in a conference that was and still is perceived as weak (I live out here and it’s better than folks think. Most national media heads are asleep by the time the games are played, but thats a moot point). Point being: USC had THEIR ish together first and foremost regardless of what conference they were in. That has to be a precedent we can try to follow with Jimbo IMHO
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 29, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And to add to that
Once USC was set up as a giant it gave other teams a spring board. If Oregon lost that game to USC he isn’t the hot new coach they say he is. If Oregon State doesn’t beat USC we have no idea who Quizz Rodgers is. Once we get back on track VT and Clemson can live off of our shine.
by osceolafan850 on Mar 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be more than happy . . .
To see FSU of the 2-thousand-10’s make Wake (and MD, UNC, UVA, NC St., Clemson, etc.) look like the 1990’s versions of those teams again, regardless of “perception.”
Here’s what I remember about the national perception of the ACC back then: it was too easy for US. I don’t care what the relative perception of the conference was to the Big 12. I care that we finished every year in the pre-BCS National Title chase by steamrolling.
I remember absolutely boring “tune-up” afternoon games, watching Wake’s anemic sideline with hunched shoulders, squinting at a scoreboard that said 70-7, just praying for the game to end so we could go do something stimulating.
I remember my friends from Clemson getting really excited and cocky with me when they were coming down to Tallahassee ranked (“This is the year FSU goes down!”) and then leaving with a 59-0 shellacking. No one cared who we beat; it was the fact we beat them like the red-headed stepchildren they were.
UM was OOC and UM’s pre-eminence gave us legend-inducing exposure games, and I would like to see that parity again.
UF’s pitiful schedule means nothing to anyone, except those of us who hate them and resent their current success.
No one will minimize the tire treads of the FSU steamroller across the backs of 4300-student schools in forgotten towns named after cigarette manufacturers, or schools of white male engineers screaming with frustration because they have no women at their school. They’ll focus on the size of those tracks.
We play a strong schedule regardless of the ACC’s year-to-year variation in second-tierers. FSU’s place is in the first tier, even if we’re there all alone.
Go ’Noles.
by BigSpear on Mar 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sweet, you guys are like ...
my “secret weapon” at the water cooler.
Tomahawk Nation……making you a little less uninformed, one day at a time.
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
You really can't disagree w/ logic and facts.
Well, you can, but not if you enjoy credibility
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
Intelligent and respectful exchange of ideas?
BLASPHEMY!!!
This is not the way a message board is supposed to function!
As a “powerful and knowledgeable” moderator on the WC told me:
THIS IS MY BOARD AND IF U DONT LIKE IT 2 BAD. I TOLD U THAT HES NOT STARTING SO GO AHEAD AND ENJOY YOUR BAN!
I am waiting for my internet smackdown Mr. Elliott…
Sounds like a real douche-nozzle.
Or tool-bag, just like our new defense, i’m “multiple”;)
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
o_O to Douche - Nozzle
that is the best insult I’ve heard all day. May I add it to my stable of indignities and slanders?
by Caveman Mafia on Mar 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a riveting discussion to be had regarding why ots worae t
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 29, 2010 6:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
sorry, why its worse to be the nozzle pr he bag
Sorry…why it is (or isnt) far worse to be the nozzle than the bag…
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 29, 2010 6:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not sure how much worse it is,
Since i included “tool-bag” i couldn’t in good conscience go w/ the old default “douche bag” as well.
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
Whats the word
on Herzlich? Is he really going to be able to play football after what his body just went through?
yes
Speak softly, and carry a big Spear
by tdchrisdavis on Mar 29, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard Miami's secondary didnt' look too good in their spring game.
I don’t think Brandon Harris played though. Ray Ray Armstrong looks like he’s going to be a stud.
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