Florida State Tops Wake 51-47
by Bud Elliott on Mar 4, 2010 12:07 AM EST
in FSU Basketball
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PrintThe game was ugly. The refs let both sides mug each other. The 'Noles normally average offensive attack couldn't do much against the Deacons, but FSU did do some things very well.
Despite being largely unable to set up its offense, FSU did a nice job scoring in the fast break game. I counted 10+ fast break points. The 'Noles made only 11 of its 36 non-fast break shots. But the 'Noles got to the line really often and while FSU didn't shoot lights out from the charity stripe, it made up for the lack of marksmanship by increasing its opportunities. FSU also did a nice job of not turning the ball over at an outrageous rate. And they took the ball from Wake really often. Throw in winning the battle of the boards despite a great defensive effort from Wake's Alfred Aminu, and a slightly better shooting night from the Deacons, and Florida State did enough to win in the end.
The 'Noles were led by freshmen Michael Snaer's fast break effort, Chris Singleton's superb defense, and a very efficient night by Xavier Gibson. And that defense. Just wow. Playing consistent defense helps teams win close games and FSU is now 7-2 in games decided by two shots or less (6 points).
FSU plays at Miami this Saturday and will have a shot to win 10 ACC games in back to back years, something it hadn't done in more than 10 years.
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Snaer has the potential...
to be very VERY good for us. Almost Toney Douglas like – he will just need to have, and will have a much better supporting cast than douglas did. Bright future for both football and basketball. Good time to be a NOLE!!!
I agree
that Snaer is the real deal but I’m not convinced that the supporting cast is up to the task. There is a ton of work to do on the offensive side of the court and I don’t know if the staff is up to the challenge. I’ll take a wait & see approach before I jump for joy.
Love the Mugging Statement
Especially when Ryan Reid plugged Chas McFarland. I was so happy to see that up close and personal. It was deliberate and beautiful at the same time. Just like when Snaer put a shoulder into Vasquez.
"You play to WIN the GAME"
This year is questionable
Our offense won’t be there until next season with the addition of our new recruits. We have some scorers coming in. We’ll be lucky if we do anything this season in the tournament.
by RattlnSpear on Mar 4, 2010 1:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Can we all just be in awe for a moment in regards to two things from last night?
1) Freshman MIchael Snaer hitting two CLUTCH free throws inside the last couple minutes, likely with the knowledge that an NCAA Tourney bid was on the line. Quoting Snaer, I like the confidence:
“I knew in my head I was going to make them. I believed in myself. And I knew there was no possible way we were going to let that game slip away.”
2) We all know this team (and maybe this coach) is challenged offensively (4 FG’s in 2nd half, 20 points), but what a defense! Wake scored only 22, no FG’s over final 6:23, and, as the Democrat pointed out, ZERO points on only TWO shot attempts from future NBA’er Aminu. Wow!
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
only 22 points in the 2nd half for Wake, to clarify.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
I love the defense.
I love the fact we can finish top 4 in the conference two years running with 10 wins each year.
I can’t get over how inept we are on offense. It’s just bad.
"Trick is right."
Beat Miami!!!
If we beat Miami (MIA), the worst that can happen is we get the 5-seed in the ACC tournament (if VaTech and Clemson both win) - which would lead to another match up against Miami. If Clemson loses (Wake) and FSU wins, we’ll have the #3 seed in the tourney and a first round bye.
Reading the tea leaves, I foresee a second round matchup with Clemson for the Garnet and Gold.
Don't know if anyone else sees the formatting in your post like I do,
..but it’s pretty screwy. You have a gray block quote floating over the rest of it, obscuring some of what you tried to say.
A Clemson loss combined with a win over Miami would be huge
We would get the 3 seed and avoid Duke until the Finals
I certainly didn't intend that formatting
We’re not getting lower than the five seed at this juncture. If we win on the road against Miami and still get the 5 seed (meaning VTech and Clemson both win), we’ll see Miami again. A win there leads to a second round matchup against Clemson. If Wake beats Clemson, VTech beats NC St and we beat Miami, we end up with the 3 seed and Clemson gets the 6 seed. Once again, we get Clemson in the quarters.
VT plays at Georgia Tech....not NC State
Certainly not a gimme for the Hokies.
If we beat Miami, Clemson beats Wake, and VT loses to GT…..we get the 4 seed and a first round bye (which would be huge).
We need to be big Wake and GT fans this weekend. I think both teams are capable of beating Clemson and VT.
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but if my calculations are correct and we lose at Miami,
VaTech wins at GaTech, then Wake beats Clemson (at Wake), we appear to be stuck with the #6 seed:
- VaTech 10-6
- Clemson 9-7
- Wake 9-7
- FSU 9-7
The 3 -team tiebreaker would be broken with Clemson @ 2-1, Wake 1-1, and the Noles @ 1-2.
It appears to me that FSU has what could be considered not-unreasonable chances to end up with the #3, #4, #5, or #6.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
I think you are correct. Miami is still a must win IMO as you are not garunteed a ACC tourney win.
Also, depending on how VaTech and Clem finish up, we still might have to beat Miami AND win an ACCT game.
Yeah, right!
Yep, I don't like the "must-win" term getting thrown around all the time,
but we aren’t out of the woods yet. On the other hand, I disagree with True about needing a win at Miami AND a win at the ACCT. A win at Miami and we are a lock.
Still, Hamilton has a coaching job in the next couple days to get our guys to come down off the high they are on and understand that Miami is clearly capable of beating us, and that we are no lock right now. Maintaining focus will be key here.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
So you agree we are not a tourney lock? Cause I thought I was in Paralandra.
everyone else seems to thing we’re a mid-level seed right now.
Yeah, right!
We might be in the field right now, even if we close out 0-2.
Depends on what happens elsewhere. We’ve got a reasonable case in-hand. But not bullet-proof.
All of us would prefer not to take that route, of course, so as build our seeding and not be forced to sweat it out on Selection Sunday.
If Clem and VT win and we Lose at Miami and first round ACC game... you still think we're a lock?
in what has become a VERY sub par ACC.
Yeah, right!
I'm down with Trick here. Now, I think the term "lock" refers to a
100% iron-clad invite, so I wouldn’t call us a lock. However, teams that go 9-7 in the ACC, with what our RPI will be even with a loss at Miami, do NOT get left out of the tourney. We got left out with that record the one year only because our nonconference sked would have embarrassed a Division II school.
If we go 0-2, I put our chances at 90%.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
If we go 0-2, does the ACC only get 3 teams?
I mean, we have a better resume than VT. We are at least on par with GT and WF (3-0 vs them but they have better “marquee” wins). If we get left out, you’d have to leave out those 3 teams as well.
Only way we aren’t a lock is if we go 0-2, those 3 teams win 2+ more ACC games apiece, Cal, Utah State, Butler and Temple/Xavier/Richmond all lose their conference tournaments, UConn, ND, UF, Ole Miss, etc. make deep tournament runs, so on and so forth. We average out to an 8 seed on 74 mock brackets. We would have to get jumped by 10-15 teams. It would have to be a perfect storm and that sh*t just ain’t happening. Odds of missing the NCAAT at <1%. Imo.
Root for VT to beat GT and WF to beat CU (and obviously us to beat Miami). It would get VT in the top 50 RPI and knock CU out of the top 25. And root for MU over ND to keep MU in the top 50. And since I hate the gators, root for them to lose at UK (even though it’s my sister’s alma mater, I still can’t stand the cats).
"Trick is right."
and whether our chances are 90% or 99% if we finish 0-2
is really just an academic discussion. Dissect it any way you want (past history with 9-7 ACC teams or current year bubble situation), the chances are very small that we get left out this year.
I guess you are putting more emphasis on the RPI record than the ACC bye situation by suggesting to root for VaTech? The advantage of GaTech beating VaTech tomorrow is that it removes the possibility of the 3-way tie between FSU, Clemson, and VaTech at 10-6 (which we lose).
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
By rooting for VT over GT and WF over CU,
I got rid of the 3way tie. I want the 3 seed AND I want as many top 50 RPI wins as possible (VT would become a top 50 RPI if they beat GT, GT would remain top 50) and it would also get rid of 2 top 25 RPI losses (0-4 looks better than 0-6). Our new RPI 26-50 would be 5-2 (only losses to CU), assuming uf loses at UK, which I suspect they will, AND MU beats ND, which I also suspect they will (5-2 if both of those occur, 4-3 if neither occur). So we can be anything between 5-6 and 3-7 vs the RPI top 50.
And I posted this in the game thread just now, but I’ll post it in here since this is still getting a few views, I said “Odds of missing the NCAAT are <1%.” RpiForecast seemingly agrees. They put us at 99.26% PRIOR to our win over WF.
"Trick is right."
Got it. The "AND" in your subject line is the key to
the scenario you like.
Roll them dice, Trick, cause you are a gambler! You set up a “go for broke” scenario there.
That is, once we beat Miami tomorrow, a Georgia Tech win over VaTech at 4pm GUARANTEES us a bye, albeit a #4 seed if Clemson then ends up beating Wake on Sunday. I am gonna have a hard time rooting for VaTech in that situation. Especially considering your excellent news about our 99% chances to make the Dance.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
The good thing is
Our game is at noon tomorrow. Quette/ND play at 2. VT/GT play at 4. (Dayton plays at 7. This is unrelated to FSU’s greater goal, but Dayton is #1B in my heart.)
Then Sunday, UK and the folks from hogtown square off at noon. Clemson and Wake at 6. (I was going to say don’t forget to tune into the baseball game vs UGA on Sunday at 1 – it’ll be on Sun/FS FL – but you’re in Ohio. Where abouts?)
I’ll be rooting for our best case scenario. If it happens, great. If not, hopefully we still get that 3/4 seed bye.
"Trick is right."
YES!
A CS Lewis Space Trilogy reference!!!! REEEEEECCC!
by EngineerNole on Mar 5, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Highlighting the fact that we need to win @ UM.
That’s the most important part of the equation, and the first sequential step in the decision tree.
"The refs let both sides mug each other"
Per the announcers for last nights game, both teams were “bumpin’ and grindin’ on the court.”
by CSI Nole on Mar 4, 2010 9:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It was pretty surprising.
On the whole, it would be great if every game was officiated like that (maybe a little less tolerant), but the inconsistency between and within games is maddening. Even in this game, from one play to the next, they would ignore a complete mugging, only to call a ticky-tack foul several seconds later. Officiating in this conference is horrible, there is no escaping it.
Last Home Game
Random thoughts on the last home game of the 09-10 season:
Pretty good atmosphere despite the MANY empty seats….I was really worried the Dulkys foul at the end of the first half was going to be a difference maker…watching 12 minutes roll off the clock with only 1 point to show for it was pretty painful…Singleton’s lazy passes were head-scratchers….Alabi taking Patrick Ewing-like 10’ fade aways was infuriating…I prayed for a bomb threat when Hamilton called timeout at 45-44 with 3 minutes, hoping we could end the game right then… I may have accidentally spit on a Gator…the Noles are now 9-0 against my witless game predictions… Jimbo, who is totally the man, was definitely on the juice last night… and finally Jenn the Golden Girl http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/188727/Recruiting…_solved.JPG, I will miss you the most
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 4, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
good stuff
and how did the accidental spitting go down anyway?
I said something to the effect of "Yesss Ssssnaerr, Ssslaaammm it Down!!"
From the look I got, she must have confused me with what I can only guess to be Gilbert Godfried’s love child
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 4, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Chris Singleton needs to get on Ritalin.
Was anybody else flabbergasted when Singleton focused ALL of his attention on a piece debris during an offensive set? He stopped and pointed at the item until the whistle blew for an FSU turnover (IIRC). Dulkys ended up picking the debris up with bare hands.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player distracted by nonsense while play is going on. Flabbergasted.
by The K-Man on Mar 4, 2010 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree that Singleton is ADHD.
I think that drives his sub-.500 FT statistic, incomprehensible 3’s with 30 seconds remaining on shotclock…. and on the plus side… his suffocating defense and effort. Double-edged sword, I guess.
If you're referring to the blonde with the bombs in that photo
I’m pretty sure her name is Dani
Big Fan of Big Spear Diplomacy
Really?
I was always told it was Jennifer Eisensholn (sp) from Jax, but you could definitely be right. Either way, I love how the link is entitled “assets.” Assets, indeed.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 4, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Dani and Holly were the favs in my informal Twitter poll last night.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, here’s Frank with a “Golden Girl+pole” joke.
C'mon, that's not even fair
Now which one won your pole?
Frank….
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 4, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I have no feel for these games.
These defensive battles are freaking me out. I felt like the CU was a sure win up until the final seconds, I’m still baffled that FSU lost that one.
Its exactly opposite for the Wake game. I still can’t believe FSU won that game.
I think I focus to much on FSU’s offense (or lack of). Right now, seeing how pitiful FSU’s FT’s are going, I can see a sound strategy for future opponents is to never give FSU an easy basket. Either make FSU shoot jumpshots or foul them hard if the Noles happen to get a chance in the paint..make the Noles earn points from the charity stripe.
Gripper
Wake just fouled the wrong guys.
Hack-a-Chris is a proven strategy. Most of the time he’s out of control enough that they won’t even call the foul when he deserves it, and even if they do, he’ll miss 1/2.
i actually thought this was as fair a game as ive seen in the acc in some time
not saying there weren’t a number of bad calls, just that it was relatively even and that there were no blatantly obvious calls that were missed
plus the refs allowed the players to decide the game – which is a big step for acc refs..
I know most of you will think I'm just being negative again...
But if Lunardi actually got our first round opponent right in his latest Bracketology, I’d have a hard time picking FSU into the 2nd round.
Between their full court press and their 2-3 zone, Louisville could hold us under 5 field goals for the game.
Good thing is, they're coached by Rick Pitino.
So after his team rapes us, he’ll probably pay for an abortion.
by MattDNole on Mar 4, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Will he pay for my lasagna and merlot before the sodomy?
I can live with that.
by The K-Man on Mar 4, 2010 12:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
youre a sick man..
we were all thinking it, but you said it…
Allegedly rape...
Also, is it a $3000 flat fee? Or is Slick Rick dishing out 3G’s per player and coach?
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 4, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
KenPom has Louisville's Defense as ranked #79 in the country, with a effective FG% on
defense ranked #158, offensive rebounds allowed on defense ranked a woeful #294.
I gotta say, at least statistically, I can think of worse matchups for FSU. I’ve seen us matched up with Texas in some brackets, that might be worse, they are #16 defensively and #26 offensively.
All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.
I think it's the style that will give us trouble.
Obviously there are several teams out there that would be very bad matchups, but Louisville’s defensive system is designed to take advantage of what happens to be our most glaring weaknesses.
by MattDNole on Mar 4, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Correctamundo! We suck at breaking press... period.
We MUST have two more ball handlers very soon!
Yeah, right!
Actually, I think we have been very good at breaking the press since the first few games of the ACC schedule
We were HORRENDOUS to start the year and have made drastic improvements IMO
been watching all year... progress is MINIMAL, though you're right.
fundamentally a team this long AND athletic should have no trouble breaking the press.
Yeah, right!
And, unfortunately, they have a better offense than Clemson or Florida,
which means they can set up their press more frequently.
agreed
it would give us nightmares. its all just whether they will be able to set it up or not as i mentioned in a different thread about clemson.
Talking about Dance tournament matchups now
Is a big counting of chickens IMHO.
I’d really like to get out of the 7-10 seed range and into the 5-6 seed range so we don’t have to face a 1 or 2 in the second round (should we win the first round game)
But like I said earlier – it’s all about beating MIami right now.
Geeeez CP, you sound like a coach.
We’re fans, remember? We’re allowed to wildly speculate.
by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 4, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Why isn't Loucks getting more playing time?
I haven’t reviewed the statistics, but from my casual (actually stressed out and frustrated) view of the last 6 games or so, I would say that we are a better with Loucks running the point than with Kitchen. Through last year and much of this year, Loucks had way too many turnovers trying to make the flashy play, and last year he was a defensive liability as well. Especially because of the turnovers, I have been one of Loucks’s biggest non-fans, but I’ve been pretty impressed with his play lately and I’m beginning to think that with more playing time he might turn into a decent ACC point guard. He at least seems to be doing a better job getting us into some kind of position to score. Meanwhile, I don’t see any sign that Kitchen is ever going to develop into the point guard that we need.
If I was Hamilton, I would have started Loucks over Kitchen at the point in the last two games. Instead Loucks only played 12 minutes in the WF game, going 0 for 3 with 3 assists, compared to 31 minute for Kitchen, who went 1 for 3 with 6 assists. In the Clemson game Loucks played 21 minutes, going 2 for 3 with 2 assists, while Kitchen played 31 minutes going 2 for 5 with 2 assists. I know there’s not a lot of evidence in those numbers, so is it just me, or is anyone else getting the same “vibe” from watching these games.
I think loucks struggle on bounce against quicker guards. Kitchen looks better to me. and...
Snaer at least doesn’t turn it over, but has no clue how to run point at this, ah, point.
We need both of them away from the ball and two true PG’s on this roster quick. IMO
Yeah, right!
Kitchen's rebounding is better...
but both he and Loucks were struggling a bit last night. I do agree that Loucks is the better ball-handler though.
And better passer
I think that Loucks is better, and maybe a lot better, at getting the ball to guys in the brief moment that they’re in position (moving or not) to get a good shot or a layup. Of course it would help if Alabi didn’t have such stone hands.
Snaer obviously had some great plays last night....
but I believe he turned the ball over at least three times.
Yeah snaer not a natural point gaurd and we need one.
I agree loucks is better at passing but he’s moving in slow motion on the dribble in the half court. Looks like he’s gonna fall over half the time. Just not quick enough.
Yeah, right!
Loucks also fails to grasp the fact that alabi has brick hands
he consistently throws high 83 mph passes that bounce off alabi’s hand and into the 3rd row
Kitchen looked horrible at the end of the game last night...
I just haven’t been impressed with him at all nor Loucks. Granted yes Kitchen is a very good rebounding guard there’s a lot more to running the point than that. Kitchen looks scared in pressure situations…that was a nice handoff on his drive at the end of the game last night right to the Wake defender.
Loucks is a guy whose brain is moving faster than his body will let him
Loucks v Kitchen
Kitchen can create more on his own, rebound better, has more ball secruity, defends better
Loucks can’t dribble out of the press on his own, picks up his dribble too often, isn’t a good on-ball defender but makes the passes that no one else can
IMHO
Both have their strengths and weaknesses
Loucks does a better job than DK of getting the ball inside to Alabi/Gibson.
Well, if correct
at http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewcoach.asp?coach=340&sport=1&year=2009 then we can at least thank coach Allen for landing two of the promising that are currently Noles. Of course they probably wanted to come to FSU no matter who recruited them. They probably did not need 24/7 attention like the Pouncie twins.
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