Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks 90, Raptors 87: "Shump and Lin wouldn't let us lose."

Turnovers – FSU’s Achilles Heel

Florida State's men's basketball team finished the regular season third in the Atlantic Coast Conference. The Seminoles eclipsed the twenty win mark on the season, and had double-digit conference wins. Going into the ACC tournament, FSU received a first round bye and awaits the winner of the Clemson/NC State game. Most would agree that FSU had a successful regular season, especially for a university that is most commonly known for their football achievements. As we all know, the season isn't over, so let's take a look at what this team needs to fix in order to advance in the ACC and NCAA tournaments.

Even a casual observer could tell you that FSU finished third in the ACC mostly because of their suffocating defense. I could get into how/why the defense has been so dominate, but that isn't the point of my FanPost - I want to figure out what needs fixing.

It seems pretty evident from watching this season's games and speaking with various TN readers that FSU's glaring weakness is their offense. Considering the regular season is over and FSU starts tournament play on Friday, there is no way anyone could expect major offensive adjustments. But there is one aspect of FSU's offense that might be possible to improve on - turnovers - which is their Achilles heel.

For those of you familiar with Ken Pomeroy, turnover percentage is one of his four key factors to winning a game. According to Pomeroy, Florida State ranks 330th nationally in turnover percentage at 24.5%. This means per 100 possessions, FSU turns the ball over almost 25 times. Even with their other offensive inefficiencies, turning the ball over a quarter of the time is by far their biggest downfall. Think about it, not only does FSU not put any points on the board 25 out of 100 times, but they allow their opposition an extra 25 chances to score (out of 100).

First, let's take a look at how FSU would be better offensively if they could limit turnovers. For argument's sake, imagine FSU could cut their turnover percentage to 18%. Since there are approximately 70 possessions in an FSU game, their turnovers would decrease from around 17 per game to 13 per game. In this scenario, FSU would have 4 more scoring opportunities and since they have an effective field goal percentage of 51%, they could score 4 to 6 more points a game. Now this might not seem like much, but consider how tight tournament games usually are and/or the fact that 11 of FSU's 30 games were decided by 5 points or less.

Now let's take a look at the 17 teams ranked worse than FSU in turnover percentage and their records:

  • Arkansas Pine Bluff 14-15
  • Garner Webb 8-21
  • St. Peters 16-14
  • Norfolk State 11-18
  • East Carolina 10-20
  • Florida Gulf Coast 8-21
  • Wagner 5-26
  • Albany 7-24
  • Mississippi Valley State 9-22
  • South Carolina Upstate 6-23
  • North Dakota 8-22
  • Savannah State 11-15
  • Winston Salem State 12-17
  • Bryant 1-29
  • Texas A&M-CC 16-14
  • Southern Utah 7-22
  • Alcorn State 2-29

From those teams' records you can see why Ken Pomeroy believes turnover percentage is a key factor in winning basketball games, and I think any reasonable person would agree. Only 2 of those 17 teams ranked below FSU had winning records: St. Peters and Texas A&M-CC. The difference between FSU and a team like St. Peters and Texas A&M-CC (or any other team on the list, for that matter) is the competition they face night in and night out. St. Peters is in the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference and Texas A&M-CC plays in the Southland Conference, which Pomeroy ranks 15th and 23rd respectively. As we all know, FSU plays in the ACC, which Pomeroy ranks as the best conference in the country.

So in a way, FSU is almost lucky to finish 3rd in the ACC and if they plan on making any sort of splash in the big dance, they need to learn how to protect the basketball - and fast.

 

 

[Editor's Note: This is my first FanPost and I know I lack written skills, which is why I work in finance, but hopefully you guys get something out of this and understand my point. Thanks for reading.]

Comment 20 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Good first post

Where do we rank in forcing turnovers?

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Mar 9, 2010 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks Rays - 27th in opponents turnover %

Which, as I am sure you are alluding to, almost makes up for the amount of times we turn the ball over.

But what I was trying to focus on was the importance on cutting down our own turnovers. Since we already play great defense, I was looking for 1 area which needed the most improvement.

So while continuing to keep the defensive intensity, FSU could potentially win more games by not turning the ball over so much. I know it seems self explanitory – but I was hoping to expand on it.

by BostonNole on Mar 9, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Just Curious

what’s the net on TO’s for the season….as in the difference between our TO’s and our opponents. Are we plus or minus for the season?

by 30yearnole on Mar 9, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure, but I'll take a stab.

FSU averages 68 possessions, 17 turnovers, 69 points per game.

Meaning they score their 69 points on 51 possessions, right? (Since you can’t score if you’ve turned the ball over)

Push that out to 100 possessions —→ 135 points per 100 possessions, which is Ken Pomeroy’s offensive efficiency stat.

by BostonNole on Mar 9, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Compare that to Duke who is #1 in offensive efficiency

67 possessions, 11 tunrovers, 79 points per game

141 points per 100 possessions (adjusted for turnovers)

by BostonNole on Mar 9, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Break that down to per game (still adjusted for turnovers)

FSU 92 points on 68 possessions (their per game possession avg)
Duke 94 points on 67 possessions (their per game possession avg)

So the most efficient offensive team in the country (Duke) scores only 2 points per game more than FSU on possessions that do not result in a turnover.

by BostonNole on Mar 9, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Pomeroy calculates that

I forget what the stat is called, but they present it in articles on Basketball Prospectus. Earlier in the year we were 4th or 5th in the ACC in terms of PPP when the possession doesn’t end with a turnover.

by norcal_nole on Mar 9, 2010 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

Get Kitchens hands off the ball

I do not think he is an asset to the team at all. We have people that can score and Loucks seems to be better at getting the team settled on offense. Kitchens seems to want to have the ball the entire time.

by pollynole on Mar 11, 2010 3:07 AM EST reply actions  

Disagree completely

When Derwin is playing well, he’s indeed an asset. He’s one of the best rebounders on the the team, and his turnover rate is less than Loucks. IMO, Derwin is a better defender than Loucks as well. Luke excels against mediocre competition, but struggles to play well against good/elite competition.

By the way, it’s Kitchen. There’s no “s” on the end of his name.

by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 11, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I am not sure what games you have been watching

But he carried this team through a couple games this season

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Mar 11, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Both Polly and Randy are correct (its situational)

I don’t agree that removing Kitchen from all ball-handling duties is a good idea because look at his stats against Duke (10 Assists / 3 TOs). And I also don’t agree with the assessment that Loucks makes his living off of lesser teams and struggles against “good/elite competition”…against Clemson (15 pts, 6 assists, 0 turnovers), against Virginia (11 pts, 4 assists, 1 turnover).
So the answer is…you’ve got to keep an eye on those 2 and keep most of the ball-handling duties with the guy who is having the best game. But both guys are capable of handling PG duties against top notch teams. And both are capable of 5+ turnover games.
Next year when both players return they’ll be improved (hopefully) and we’ll need more improvement on TO’s in the frontcourt. Too many ZERO shot possessions.

by BrianFSU on Mar 11, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't categorize UVA as a good team

And Clemson plays terrible at times. I’m more talking about Ohio State, Duke, Maryland, etc.

by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 13, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

So after last night's lovely turnover percentage of 32%

there are only 11 teams in the country with a worse percentage.

I am actually embarrassed that some of my friends were subjected to watching this garbage with me.

by BostonNole on Mar 13, 2010 6:08 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We talk FSU

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Fsu1_small
Ongoing/Off-Topic Discussion Thread #71
Eddiegoldman_small
2013 Recruiting Discussion Thread #2
Small
ACC Offensive Line Game 1 Starters- A Statistical Breakdown
Noleccav2_small
An All Inclusive Spring Weekend?
Small
One Guy's 2012-2013 FSU Football Roster & Recruiting Analysis

Recent FanPosts

Small
Projected 2012 FSU Football Schedule Thoughts
Small
Offensive Line help
Noleccav2_small
FSU Softball Starts Season 5-0
Small
WAY-TOO-EARLY 2013 Mock Class
Small
The 2013 Recruiting Targets...from a fan
Osceola_unconquered_small
Consider the Big 12...

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SHOP THE TOMAHAWK NATION STORE

Florida State Seminoles Apparel


Chiefs

Recruiting_image_small Bud Elliott

Editors

Miller_small basaltrock

Img_4552_small TrueCubbie

Winston_small nolesblogger

Small Fsued

Doak_1968_small pbysh

Vacation_013_small MattDNole

Rolle_small DKfromVA

Nattylite3_small Nattylite

Peter_ernie_small The K-Man

Fsu1_small FrankDNole

Robbowtiedrink_small ricobert1

Florida-county-map_small SWFLNole.

Highlife_small fsu44

Seminoleswag_small NoleLaw

41297_568178558869_41806189_33516186_4798385_n_small BenDNole

Photo-2_small Dr.KennethNoisewater

Avatar_2_small SheenaLouise

Go-fsu-seminoles-red_small Michael@TN

Macho-man-randy-savage-7_small ScottCrumbly

Screenhunter_02_oct Michael Rogner

Authors

Db_small Chris Gadsden

1209_large_small FSUvaFan

Westcott1_small NoleThruandThru

Second_to_fsu_small Jamil Dawson