Florida State Spring Football Fantasy Draft 10 AM Thursday: Overflow Thread #2
by RaysnNoles on Apr 1, 2010 4:02 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintOriginal and Overflow Thread #1
NOTE: This is for non-moderators as well as TN staff. You don't need to be here all day Thursday to participate. Give your thoughts whenever you feel like doing so.
As you may know, Florida State will hold a draft to pick teams for its April 10th Spring game. FSU will likely use captains to pick the teams, and the coaches will make sure the teams are balanced. I thought TomahawkNation.com members might be interested in doing something similar. But we'll need some rules.
- First, because of E.J. Manuel's shoulder surgery, the talent differential at the quarterback position is enormous (Heisman Trophy Favorite v. redshirt freshman). As such, the draft order is altered a bit. Team Garnet gets Ponder and does get 5 of the first 10 picks, but team Gold gets 5 of the top 8 selections. The draft order is below, at right.
- Additionally, to ensure that each team ends up with the correct amount of players at each position, when a team selects a player, the opposing team will receive a corresponding player at that position as dictated by the table below. For instance, team Garnet selects Christian Ponder, team Gold gets Will Secord. That also creates a really interesting strategy dynamic. Players with really good backups might not present the best value in the early rounds!
- Teams may not select players from the "give" category, as the chart has been formatted to reflect the 1st and 2nd stringers from the most recent scrimmage.
- Only the players on the "available" list are eligible to be drafted. If you want Cameron Wade, Justin Bright, or Ed Imeokporia, that's not happening.
- Players must play at the position I list them.
- The draft starts tomorrow morning, 10 AM Eastern time.
- Commenters, please assemble and pick teams! When you decide what team you want to join, please click on your user name and then click "edit profile", then type "Team ______" into your "signature" box, then click "update", so that people know what team you're on.
- You may not switch teams after 10AM, Thursday.
- Select a team captain. The captain will be responsible for giving the official picks. Note that multiple captains are acceptable if, for example, the captain can represent his team for the 10AM, Noon, and 1PM time slots, but not for the other time slots. In that case a different captain will serve for the remaining time slots.
- Teams may discuss their potential selections in the comment section, but their captain will make the ultimate choices. The picks must be in by the time listed in the "Draft History" portion of the table. For instance, Team Gold must make its 3 consecutive selections by 10 AM Eastern time.
- On Friday, we will have the non-participating Tomahawk Nation staff vote for who they think has the better team!
- A note about game play: Both teams will run the same offense and defense. Assume that the starters and backups will play equal snaps (Ponder can't take 100% of the plays for team Garnet).
Any questions, potential problems, etc? Let us know now. Team Gold is on the clock for the next 20 hours it seems.
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for team garnet: carr and thompson
depending on how williams has looked this spring 9I cant recall any reports discussing him) because carr has experience and williams is coming off major back surgery
as for the Moody comments, like discussed with the gold pick, I like demps over moody
the only reason
I don’t like the Carr pick is from what I HAVE heard about Williams. I read somewhere that he was doing very well after back surgery.
Team Garnet!
oh, and the reason for thompson: better weapon for ponder and the walkon
because the wrs are a push except for everyone wanting fortson instead of reed
or maybe even consider allen
he will do well in the zone scheme, like jenije, and rhodes is learning a new position
Who did Gold take at 4?
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I would tell you, but you yelled at me earlier.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't tell you anyways.
I’m not on your team.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
other than giving up both of the TDs to USF? Yeah he played last year, decent in the BYU game
365 days, until I change my ways.
Out of curiosity, why has everyone stayed away from the Stevens/Jenkins pick?
Just going by your basic “Fill your needs first” strategy?
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
Ahhhh. So the consensus is that the gap between the two really isn't all that significant?
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see that line of thinking.
Bert is pretty consistent. Touches the ball on the bubble screens/reverses…has chances to make big plays.
Fortson does too, however his propensity to drop the ball if it hit him in the chest skews his consistency a bit.
Good not to get lost in the glamour, Grassy. Nice work.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
that's me. can't speak for others. the real hot potatoes appear to be the Smith/Luc and Reed/Fortson pick
might actually give a better player than you get.
Team Gold
Im not gonna lie
I am thinking that it would be more then fine to have smith to get fortson….
Team GOLD
yes but then I like all other candidates besides Obama... but the majority did not.
since it will come to a vote I think Fortson/Luc are better for popularity.
Team Gold
I really want
Fortson…..but if the popular choice is to had Reed and Luc then im down for that.
Team GOLD
at least for garnet
we decided they were pretty even and not worth making a pick on…
trying to find where the value lies
Team Garnet
what are you basing that on?
i agree that jenkins is better and said so earlier but i dont think the drop off between the two warrants the pick
Team Garnet
That's why I asked, coon.
I was under the impression that Jenkins had a tremendous upside. Much more than Stevens.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...hence the conversation.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get the logic.
Why not set the draft up so that you can pick either and the other team gets the corresponding player?
I don't ask questions
I just play the game….If that were the case Fortson and Jenkins would be off the board….
Team GOLD
They probably
forced us to take one of the cornerbacks so we don’t get stuck with two back-ups. I still like the Thompson pick, however.
Team Garnet!
I don't think that's as significant as we may think
I still think we take Thompson.
But I think we need to worry more about the secondary than linebackers, IMO.
Team Garnet!
what about cornerback position
is the tossup between Allen/Rhodes less than Moody/Demps?
Team Garnet!
Then again, it's better to have a shutdown corner than a good safety, imo.
I wish there was a way we could have had Jenije.
Team Garnet!
I actually like Demps over Moody
I’ve been a huge fan of Demps since he was in high school
I dont understand everyone really wanting Fortson/staying away from that this late in the game. Reed is much more reliable
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Apr 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and we all know football isn't about doing the little things correctly and being where you are supposed to be. its about making that one big play
365 days, until I change my ways.
Chuck!!! Get away from SWFL's keyboard, dude!
What did we tell you about that? Go away!
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This game isn't played last fall
it’s played this spring amd by all accounts (Jimbo really) Fortson has been doing he littlethings.
Team Gold
I agree with you
but I wouldn’t mind having either really. I just don’t want to use a pick if I don’t mind having either one.
Team Garnet!
Yup. Same here
The fence-sitters concur.
Team EDWARD
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 1, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
whats the perception of everyone voting going to be tho?
people are going to see Fortson’s name and to me i think would give that team the nod.
Team Garnet
Sounds like Vince is good to go based on the last scrimmage.
But prior injuries reduce a player’s rating by 5% X the injury severity index.
I am pretty impressed
That in this one game we’ve already gotten into the second overflow thread….
Team GOLD
My problem with our defense is that it's ton on inexperience.
Whatever experience there was snatched quick. Bradham, Jenije, White. The only experience still out there is injury prone Allen and Smith. We already have G5 in our secondary, I can’t stand the thought of more deep passes from a mediocre, inexperienced QB like Secord (e.g. BJ Daniels). I would rather take the safe Moody over Demps.
Team Garnet!
So you think Smith > Luc is greater than Moody > Demps.
I like Demps too, but we already have Harley and G5 back in our secondary. Make it the all 2009 team?
Team Garnet!
doesnt have to do much to improve on last year
as long as they put their shoes on the right feet itll be an improvement
Team Garnet
i was just making a joke
but i could go either way on those two. again we gotta think about those voting. if they were to look first glance who do you think they would choose?
Team Garnet
I will take my time and evaluate it, not first glance. I have the day off.
Im sure Bud will take it seriously as well
365 days, until I change my ways.
If you put value on experience, and I would, then Kendall Smith as a Senior LB with two full years experience
is a good pick. Luc may have good upside, but he’s still fresh out of HS.
Moody would provide more experience than Demps, but not by as much as Smith vs Luc.
I completely agree.
What I’m worried about is having a complete secondary of new players. Welcome back to 2006.
Team Garnet!
Are we taking 1 O and 1 D player
or 2 D players?
An argument could be made that we take Moody and Smith.
Team Garnet!
No he didnt
He completed two long passes on blown coverages. The rest of his passing day sucked.
365 days, until I change my ways.
it makes me laugh when people take spring fluff reports and coach speak as more important than game results last fall
365 days, until I change my ways.
How does anyone ever improve?
sheer dumb luck? By your definition nothing will ever be better than it has already shown to be. I agree that if I were picking guys off last years team as most effective, I would have drafted Reed by now, but the fact is he’s reached his potential. Fortson had a good year by most standards but we all know he can get so much better. Jimbo hasn’t complained about him by name yet this spring whereas I seem to remember him talking about him all the time last fall.
I understand past performance is the greatest predictor of future performance, but a pick based on upside (not to mention the ability to dominate what will be a shaky secondary on the otherside) has to be a consideration as well.
Team Gold
oh people can improve, but there is evidence that Reed is better than Fortson.
I think Fortson will have a good year, but there are still huge holes in his game as of what we have actually seen on the field.
365 days, until I change my ways.
I will let NolenRyan and Renagde vote, but that's three of the five members that I can remember on our team.
I think it’s a majority.
Team Garnet!
i think Gold is going to "give" us Reed at the end..
which imo is fine. Reed is more consistent andw ill get the yards. so no need to waste a vote there.
i would prefer to have jenkins.
Kendall would provide much needed experience.
We should really get Carr so G5 has someone to high five….
The only other option to consider i think would be thompson
Team Garnet
I still think we need Thompson
But I see your points about Smith and Moody and will agree.
Team Garnet!
they'll take thompson this go round
i still want Carr just so someone will go nuts on the sidelines when Ponder goes deep
Team Garnet
Thompson is a must. and Carr but I think Haultead is closer. but either of those 3 is fine.
Team Gold
Initial Thought
Thompson (almost certain to be unanimous here I’d expect) and Carr.
I love Williams but his back scares me and it seems like he’s playing out of position. BUT we could let him slide, they’ll choose Carr and our LBs will weigh a combined 740 LBS. I like the Haulsted idea, I’m not particularly keen on the idea of drafting Matt Frie… Josh Gehres down the line.
Team Gold
Just playing devils advocate
The only thing Williams did consistently last year was not play.
Team Gold
Well I worry that
Allen is damaged goods, he’s been around forever and we still don’t know what he can do. People seem very high on Xavier Rhodes.
Team Gold
Agreed
Since everything seems pretty even outside of Thompson might as well take the guy with experience
Team Gold!
Lets look at the options left
Reed vs Fortson
Haulstead vs Smith
Grehes vs Alexander
Stevens vs Jenkins
Carr vs Williams
Allen vs Rhodes
I intentially left off Thompson because he is one of out picks this go round
Team GOLD
for me the guys i'd want are
Fortson
Haulstead vs Smith at the moment is a wash cause I’ve seen nothing other then Haulstead’s 1 catch against the Gators.
Grehes
Jenkins
Williams
Rhodes
Team GOLD
For me at the end we’re going to have to decide if we want Brandon Jenkins or Jarmon Fortson. So I won’t even worry about those guys here. I feel like Gehres and AJ Alexander is the poo poo platter so no sense touching it now. That means we gotta choose between Haulsted vs. Smith, Carr vs. Williams, Allen vs. Rhodes.
Team Gold
So i take Haulstead and Thompson and put the decision of who to give
to the other team to the Garnet squad
Team GOLD
I like that logic
Haulstead/Smith – No big difference
Allen/Rhodes – Same
Carr/Williams – Guy with playing time vs. guy with back injury
Carr?
Team Gold!
it would mean that we
would have to pick carr over williams and or dionte over xavier…Im not ready to do that on either account
Team GOLD
FWIW here are last years stats for the two
Name Catches/ Yards/ YPC/ Long and TD’s
Bert Reed 60 710 11.8 44 0
Jarmon Fortson 45 610 13.6 34 4
Team GOLD
So Bert had the yards and the catches
but J-man scored 4 more TD’s and had a longer yards per catch
Team GOLD
And here's the deal
at the end we’re gonna have to choose, do we want J-Man or do we want Jenkins. I actually think I want Jenkins in that case, so we’re probably going to give away Fortson.
Team Gold
Thx!
Also Reed ran end arounds:
Reed, B 13-3 18 114 20 94 5.2 2 42 7.2
Fortson, J 13-6 1 4 0 4 4.0 0 4 0.3
So Reed Caught 15 more balls for 100 more yards, and ran the ball 17 more times for 110 more yds.
Team Gold!
Devil's Advocate
Touchdowns are largely based on luck, in my opinion, especially if they aren’t based a player breaking a one, which Fortson didn’t really do (see no catch over 40 yards).
Team Gold
I change my vote to
Thompson & Haulstead
Team Gold
The best sounds in the world are fsu warchant and a screaming reel
If you guys vote soon, I am here (7 o clock rep) so we can get you guys back on the clock.
No pressure. Just throwing it out there.
Team Garnet!
Ok guys
realize, we’re going to end up with Gehres.
I’m voting we take Carr, more of a known quantity.
Team Gold
Writing a paper for my Business of Law class
just talked about attorneys being very multiple.
Team Gold
take haulsted and carr
If you take haulsted and we force the last pick to give us fortson wee will def have the better wr combo. I just don’t think Thompson will shine enough on the 10th to justify choosing him
Team Gold!
by garnetandgold on Apr 1, 2010 5:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i dont want thompson
Team Gold!
by garnetandgold on Apr 1, 2010 5:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I currently have
Thompson 4
Carr 3
Haulsted 1
Am I missing someone? Should it be 5 – 3 – 2
Team Gold
no prob
I was thinking wed get a fresh vote but it looks like yall have it under control.
Team Gold!
I certainly think it would ahve changed stratgies...
Everyone has been avoiding that pick.
Team GOLD
That would kind of suck.
Because had Jenkins been available earlier, we may have picked him earlier.
Team Garnet!
Then again, that's better than the alternative.
It’s as if they’d get three straight picks at the end. In theory, the last pick would be the most even pick. Now it would be a more uneven pick. I think we should be able to choose Jenkins.
Team Garnet!
After this draft is done
when can we start making trades :)
Team Gold
The best sounds in the world are fsu warchant and a screaming reel
Team Garnet.
I’m thinking Reed and Haulstead. Not much we can do. I think they’re going to stick us with Stevens no matter what.
Team Garnet!
If we go Reed and Haulstead.
We finish out with Reed, Haulstead, Rhodes, Stevens, Alexander. Both offenses are better than the defenses they play.
Team Garnet!
I know some might be a bit disappointed that we lost out on Thompson.
I am too. It was obvious but like FSU vs. Gonzaga, I never gave up. Still, if we didn’t get Kendall Smith, our only player with experience would have been Everette Dawkins.
Team Garnet!
I really like it
I really think we NEED to take Reed. The Haulstead pick is good too. They will have an inconsistent play maker, someone who hasn’t played much, and someone who I don’t even know, and they can take the last receiver. I like those picks.
Team Garnet!
Cool man.
I’m going to give you guys time to think it over. I think we’ll have a great passing attack with a mediocre Ty Jones and all everything Pryor.
Team Garnet!
I'll agree
We’ll definitely be more consistent passing. We should be solid with Pryor running.
Team Garnet!
Agreed it would have been nice
But I don’t see any difference between them in the end. because they both have such question marks.
Team Gold
Rhodes isn't so much of a
question mark. He was redshirted last year and has gotten high praise. Dionte got blown up in coverages last year. He got beat twice by BJ daniels and I don’t know if I am happy about working that hard to get the secondary we wanted to then put a weak link up there. He should be a nickel not a starter..
Team GOLD
we still could get him... we need to see who the best available are of the six and vote accordingly.
the game changes a bit for the last pick.
Team Gold
I mean, if u think tat highly of Rhodes
we’ll have a chance to let Dionte go to them, but I fear that will make us skinny as shit at one DE spot.
Team Gold
It would
and we would have taken Jenkins awhile back if Bud had gotten it the way he wanted. And I’ll digress….I think that I think Dionte is better in the situation then Stevens it at the moment.
Team GOLD
yea
if they take Reed and Willie,
we take Dionte and Grehes to get Jenkins. It pretty much means we have the starting 4 on defense for the fall. Depending on how well Amp gets into football shape and gets the speed of the game and how Dawkins fills out.
Team GOLD
Dawkins is 270. I heard him say it.
Viloria wants to get him to 280-290 by the time he graduates.
Team Garnet!
We actually should decide who the BEST player left is and pick accordingly is it Jenkins or Rohdes?
Team Gold
I think Rhodes could be a better player then Jenkins
But Jenkins is the guy who has been making a name for himself.
Team GOLD
I'm going to make the pick by 625.
Hopefully if you’re a teammate and have an opinion, you’ll be here in the next 12 minutes. :)
Team Garnet!
Done. Team Gold ends the game.
I won’t be here. I’m sure someone will finalize it later. Good game, gentlemen.
Team Garnet!
Also the issue of us throwing a totally inexperienced Corner out there
and we know Jenkins can dominate whatever Tackle they have on the other side.
Team Gold
We took
White who will play LE. White isn’t going to dominate Datko and neither is either Jenkins or Stevens
Team GOLD
I just don't think White will play on that side
thus white will do the domination to Snider and Datko will hold up either or
Team GOLD
I mean I just get the feeling like it doesn't really matter who goes up against datko but we could have a highly touted
corner going up against un-proven wide reciever but also highly touted
Team GOLD
i agree
would love rhodes, but would rather have jenkins now
Team Gold!
by garnetandgold on Apr 1, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
It could go either way for me now. and I dont think this one pick is going to change really who has the better team
Team GOLD
i say jenkins allen and gehres
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
My vote is for
Gehres & Allen
Team Gold
The best sounds in the world are fsu warchant and a screaming reel
you have to see where the bigger gap is: stevens and jenkins or allen and rhodes
given the new defensive scheme, i’d say stevens and jenkins
Currently the Gehres and Allen package leads 3-2
counting mmrock and thunder who voted that way too.
Team Gold
Gehres and Allen
I like Jenkins quite a bit better than Stevens. I could be swayed if someone will tell me why Rhodes is better than Allen
Team Gold!
i'd much rather have rhodes than allen
but not as much as i’d reather have jenkins over stevens
Team Gold!
by garnetandgold on Apr 1, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Grassy
My point was this.
We already have White who will play LDE.
Does it really matter who we pick to play RDE when they will have to line up against Datko.
Versus
We have Jenije who is a good zone DB. And we can pick up Rhodes who would give is the physicality of being a 209 6’1 DB. Rhodes can press and play bump and run whereas we all saw Dionte get burned twice against USF.
Team GOLD
who is this times captain
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
so wat shall it be allan or stevens?
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
we need to discuss
or wait till the tie is broken by a member of Team Gold… too bd the only one I think is left is Basaltrock
Team Gold
Grassy
In trying to sway your vote
My point was this.
We already have White who will play LDE.
Does it really matter who we pick to play RDE when they will have to line up against Datko.
Versus
We have Jenije who is a good zone DB. And we can pick up Rhodes who would give is the physicality of being a 209 6’1 DB. Rhodes can press and play bump and run whereas we all saw Dionte get burned twice against USF.
Team GOLD
So why go against Datko
Our oline allowed sacks on 3% of the plays last year. Is Jenkins going against Datko an advantage?
Team GOLD
IMO
Jenkins vs. Datko will produce a victory for us or at least a tie in the running game more often than stevens.
Team Gold
I'm not saying its going to be a consistent victory
but we won’t lose EVERY play at that spot
Team Gold
I honestly think that Jenkins will lose giving up 60 lbs and a hell of a lot of technique
every play…
Team GOLD
and if they run that way its jenkins against hudson and datko..
not looking very good either way
Team GOLD
Well then I look forward
to next fall when team’s never have to worry abut one of our starting DEs
Team Gold
I don't think thats true
I am just stating that if the garnet plays the gold then Datko wins the majority of the time against both stevens and jenkins and thus does it really matter?
Team GOLD
I mean I am clearly outnumbered
so our teams pick is likely to be Allen and Gehres. I have convince myself that I am no longer happy with that choice but I wanted to be a part of Team Gold and so I will gladly accept that that is the choice of the whole.
Team GOLD
If our team had Datko
and it was Jenkins or Stevens versus Orelus…..or Rhodes then give me Jenkins all day.
Team GOLD
Hard to say for a guy
who hasn’t played a down for us.
More correct to say Allen HAS been burnt.
Team Gold
I suppose thats true
I redact my statment. Dionte has been burnt by WR’s with less talent then Haulstead and Reed and by a qb with much less experience then Ponder…
Team GOLD
he did fall down when he has been beat deep
so it wasn’t speed, just he can’t turn and run too well
Team Garnet!
just to say that
I hope everyone doesn’t give up on Allen because he did have a ton of potential early in his career, maybe stoops can pimp him out
Team Garnet!
If we are going to just go off potential why not take the
guy who is having a better spring ball and has a higher ceiling…
Team GOLD
oh i didnt mean to sway the vote
I just hope everyone doesn’t quit on Allen because he hasnt had a chance to prove himself with proper coaching, and he hardly played (maybe for good reason) but still. I just still have hope for him in real life, not in our draft lol
Team Garnet!
And like I said think about it from this prospective
Is Jenkins> Datko -No
Stevens> Datko-No
Rhodes>Reed Maybe not
Rhodes>Haulstead-Possible
Team GOLD
you know when you break it down allen has more experience but less size then rhodes but he is covering reed so it doesnt matter and jenkins is better than stevens...
so as i look at it that way i have to say to pick geheres and allen
i broke the tie
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
Ya I was gonna say
we didnt count your vote, we can have a discussion, but choosing Allen is now leading.
Team Gold
do i have to make it at 8
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
As of right now its
Gehres
and
Allen-AMFKNole, Thunder, Grassy, G&G, mmock
Stevens-fsugrizz,truecolors
Team GOLD
The GOLD team picks
Dionte Allen and Josh Gehres
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
TEAM GOLD
I read the whole thing from the sidelines
last night. Thanks everybody for a good read. If you offer it to the Networks as a sit-com, I suggest the title, “Everybody Loves Jenkins”.
I do feel comfortable in declaring
That our athletic director wins “sig line of the day” honors. Very clever.
>>---l>
Don't know if anyone caught it
but on seminoles.com Jimbo singled out Lonnie Pryor of the running backs and Bert Reed of the receivers as being the most consistent in practice.
Just trying to sway some votes. ;)
Team Garnet!
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