Why Jimbo Fisher Was Kidding When He Suggested The 'Noles Play UF In Atlanta To Open The Season
by Bud Elliott on Apr 21, 2010 2:48 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintAfter thinking about this for a while now, I truly believe that Jimbo Fisher was kidding when he suggested the 'Noles play UF in Atlanta to open the season in a two-year set.
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There are a couple of reasons for this. First, Fisher was speaking at a booster function in Atlanta. Some of the boosters there would like to see FSU play in the Chik-Fil-A kickoff classic, which is typically an ACC-SEC matchup. Fisher was trying to dodge a question about playing Alabama and by suggesting UF, I believe that he was trying to point out an issue with Florida State's scheduling. That issue of course, is that the 'Noles schedule is brutal already and Florida State already plays the best SEC team from the last 2 decades (UF). It is important to play one marque non-conference game, and Florida State annually plays one of the toughest non-conference opponents every season. Fisher is trying to build Florida State back up to a level where it can compete for a national championship, and part of that is setting up a schedule that allows a school to try for one. As the chart at right shows (D1 record only), the teams that schedule unnecessarily difficult non-conference games do not give themselves a chance to play for the championship. Alabama played the 34th ranked regular-season schedule, UF the 54th, Texas the 98th, Cincinnati the 88th, TCU the 89th, Boise State the 117th, and Ohio State the 58th. It's abundantly clear that the media cares about record and not a team's resume. The media creates the polls that the BCS uses. Fisher doesn't make the rules but he is trying to make FSU run the same race as the rest of the big boys. What Fisher should have told the people of Atlanta is "I know this is an SEC town and you want to see FSU play in the ACC-SEC opener, but we already play the best SEC team and we're not adding unnecessary potential losses to an incredibly difficult schedule as we already receive enormous credit in the polls for playing UF in the last game of the season. Thanks and go Braves"
The second reason Fisher probably was not serious with his suggestion is money. Florida State can't sell out its allotment of season tickets in most years. The program can't even get its scholarships endowed. Nobody understands the money problem more than Fisher and he has indirectly addressed this many times. Under no circumstances can Florida State afford to give up a home game with UF. The only chance that FSU has of selling out its season tickets is when it has a home game with the Gators, and sadly, that is because it is cheaper to buy Florida State season tickets than it is to pay the fee to become eligible to purchase Gator season tickets. FSU needs Gators to buy FSU season tickets, even though it knows they are buying only to get the UF game ticket, because the 'Noles need money. You'll never see a Florida State home schedule that doesn't include either the Canes or Gators.
Relax. Think about it. The 'Noles and the Gators will not play in Atlanta and the game will always be around Thanksgiving.
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It would have been interesting to see the reaction to this statement:
What Fisher should have told the people of Atlanta is “I know this is an SEC town and you want to see FSU play in the ACC-SEC opener, but we already play the best SEC team and we’re not adding unnecessary potential losses to an incredibly difficult schedule as we already receive enormous credit in the polls for playing UF in the last game of the season.”
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Why
What is the reason why Florida draws so many more fans than we do? I mean I understand why recently because of how awful we’ve been but where are all the FSU fans??
Much bigger school, been around a lot longer, much better location, a ton more money, better conference, more tradition
take your pick.
I think it's location.
And they’ve been really good lately. We didn’t see all the Gates in the crowd when I went their and we regularly whooped them.
I discount conference when it comes to fan participation personally.
The Funk Phenomenon.
Thats what I was trying to get at
Bud brought up some very good reasons, but it seems like lately the Noles fans are hiding, and the gators are there to taunt us…
Exactly
Win some damn games and there will be less Turds in the audience. Guaranteed.
The Funk Phenomenon.
by willdabeast on Apr 21, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
bigger school
that has been around much longer = many more fans. Is a legacy issue.
I hope not
This is a horrible idea. Keep the money generated from this game in Tally and Hogtown.
Bring Back PT Willis -------> A True Nole!!!
Have to remember the UF home game gives us money for every other home game
because the Gators buy at least 15,000 season tickets in my estimaion just to get the UF ticket. That’s 6 other games that wouldn’t get sold.
Wow thats a very large number
I would have never guess that many season tickets are being sold to GATORS! Either way its more money for the university.
You think it's that high?
Wow. I’m guessing you’re basing it off of season ticket numbers in UF home and UF away years. How recent is this phenomenon?
>>---l>
Probably pretty recent
but you saw a big spike when season tickets go on sale to the general public.
Any stats to back that up?
Not sure where you would get that but that seems like an awful large number just to pull out of a hat.
I was at that game. Not sure they outnumbered us
But there were a lot of them. I think that starts to change when the program gets better.
The Funk Phenomenon.
I was at the Champs sports bowl
and it was probably 60/40 FSU/Wisconsin fans. AND there were also Florida fans there mocking us. That’s just terrible, I completely agree if we start win some darn game the Gates will have nothing to laugh at and the Noles will show up. You know(if you build it, they will come)
Do you know that Gator fans are buying FSU season tickets?
You do realize that sounds like crazy talk…
On second thought, maybe not as crazy
considering all the UF fans & grads in Tally.
We need to make the Booster contribution higher to Buy Season Tix. If they become Boosters and Buy Season Tix then Hey go for it.
I guess we can’t do that until we start putting a better product on the field tho.
The Funk Phenomenon.
Ya exactly
that would hurt our ability to get our own fans to buy them we feel (I’m guessing).
Team Gold
That wouldn't be hard since their currently is no requirement to be a booster to buy season tix
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I know some in Tally as well...
Seems many use them to give away to client/customers, though not sure that was good practice the last many years.
Not an uncommon practice at other schools as well
I remember when Lou Holtz was hired at USCe about a decade ago, ESPN reported that USC supporters bought 10,000 Clemson season tickets b/c USCe season tickets had been maxed out.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Gator fans MIGHT buy 2,000 FSU season tickets
MAYBE. FSU does not sell 15,000 more season tickets during years when the gators are on the home schedule. Not to mention, if gator fans did buy 15,000 season tickets, that would mean there would be over 25,000 gator fans in Doak every year. That is not the case. There may, MAY have been 25,000 gator fans in Doak in 2008, but no year before that. All of this talk about the gators outnumbering us in 2008 is a joke. Yes, there were lots of gators in our stadium, but they didn’t come close to outnumbering us. It was easily 65/35 FSU.
And about the 15,000 number, based on the fact that FSU sold about 35,000 season tickets in 2008, that would mean FSU sold only 20,000 season tickets to FSU fans and then another 15,000 to UF fans. 20,000 season tickets would not even fill up the west stands at Doak. I would be surprised to learn that out of the 35,000 season tickets sold that more than 1,000 went to UF fans.
Was certainly not 65/35 FSU
The stadium was blue.
by Bud Elliott on Apr 22, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It was raining
You certainly can’t base the crowd sizes on the colors of the ponchos people had on. You don’t see many garnet and gold colored ponchos. Most are green/blue/orange.
There were at least 53,000 FSU fans in that stadium for the game, and out of a crowd of 83,000, that is 64% of the fans in the stadium.
I agree with the split being more heavily in FSU's favor,
…and can’t possibly see 15,000 gator season ticket holders… but where on earth are you coming up with 53,000 from?
(If you’re taking a guess, round it off to 5k or 10k, at least, so as not to imply precision.)
I think also at that game.
A lot of the FSU fans left early because of Rain and our getting crushed. I know I did.
The Funk Phenomenon.
I listed 53,000 because 55,000 is over 65%
and because we had an announced crowd of 51,300 at the Spring game which would have meant for the crowd at the 2008 FSU-UF game to have been any less than 65/35 FSU, there would have been no more FSU fans than 53,000 and every empty seat you saw in Doak during the Spring game would have been filled with a gator fan. This obviously wasn’t the case in 2008.
I was at the event Monday night...
and he was just throwing that out there. He did say there has been discussions of us playing ‘Bama due to his ties with Saban, but his response was why don’t we play UF instead and to make it two years so it affects both schools the same. He then added it wasn’t going to happen but he wanted to give them something to think about.
to follow-up...
He was saying this so those of us in Atlanta won’t get our hopes up of FSU playing the Chick-Fil-A game.
Future schedules
If it shakes out the way we think it will, scheduling softer, etc, is there any chance that we buy away games and move them somewhere in-state, such as Jacksonville, Orlando, or Tampa? Or if there’s a year where we have 8 home games, moving one to those cities?
Didn't the ACC stop this?
I thought the ACC stopped allowing us to do this after the 1995 season when we did this twice in the same year.
I'd be interested to see that rule
I really doubt they can stop that. We did Colorado in 2008 and Alabama in 2007.
If anything the ACC should support that
It gives their member institutions a better chance to win those particular games thus better records thus better bowl games and ultimately a better TV deal.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right.
I should have said conference games. Jimbo said he wants 7 or 8 home games a year.
Duke game in 99
I believe it was a Duke home game that was played in Jax.
Bring Back PT Willis -------> A True Nole!!!
we should just be crowned SEC champs no need to play anyone else
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
That's two BCS games in one year
With that extra revenue we would be able to get the statue of Coley built in no time.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe with the extra revenue we can afford to keep the flame of the Unconquered statue on all season
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Kidding? Perhaps...
But Andrew Carter also wrote: “And for those curious, Jimbo Fisher was indeed serious. I spoke to him even after his public booster club commentary, and he reiterated how good of an idea he thought this was. That said, he did think it highly unlikely. And, keep in mind he wasn’t in favor of making this a permenant move.”
I understand the defection aspect (not playing Alabama), and the playing to the crowd aspect. But I’m not sure that there isn’t some seriousness there. Right now, uf has an advantage when we play (outside of the talent): they often play a cupcake before they play us, while we play a conference game. If we played them first, however, we could spend as much time as they do preparing for that game. Probably more, as urban has to be careful or he’ll fall into poor health again.
I don’t expect this to happen, but I’m not sure that Jimbo was totally joking. Such a game would put FSU in a very bright national spotlight, give us the opportunity to start returning to people’s minds.
Question
How much does it take to endow one athletic scholarship? And do we have ANY endowed as of now?
One answer
According to the booster website, it currently takes $744,660 to fully endow one athletic scholarship.
I’d still like to know how many we DO have endowed (the site also reports that FSU has 240.2 athletic scholarships)…
Unsure of the exact numbers regarding endowments
I have heard though that roughly 40% of FSU Booster contributions go directly towards scholarships, where as 0% of UF’s Booster donations go to scholarships.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I dunno
But even if we have to start working on one at a time (goal: a new endowed scholly every 1-2 years?), I say we start making headway. It’ll take about $180 million to get all 240 endowed (less if we already have some), by the way.
Do the boosters have a plan in the works for getting the schollys endowed? If not, might I suggest we open up a fund or something and start raising money for it? Once the goal is reached, start raising for another scholarship. I know that the current expenses seem more pressing, but we need to set some aside for the long-term goal of getting these things taken care of.
There are mixed feelings on how the Booster organization is run
FSU is in a lot of debt right now so I am unsure how many new projects they can take on
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Well
Can’t we at least open up a new savings account earmarked “Scholarship Endowment” and stock a little away occasionally? And allow people to say, “Please put X% of my donation to the scholarship endowment account”?
We have to do something about this. The booster site also says that the scholarships are costing about $8,900,000 a year right now. It’d be great to get to the point where that money is freed up for things like facilities.
I'll check but I think you can do that now
Donate what you want to the Boosters and if you want to donate to a “Scholarship Endowment” fund you can do that as well
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
FSU has worked for years to endow all scholarships...
and have done an OK job….it will just take MORE time…and few more capital campaigns.
This is probably best asked in another area but
What plans, if any, are being tossed around or are underway to correct some of our issues?
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats beyond me
But I was recently informed that FSU does more with the limited amount of money that they have than any other school out there. Period.
Currently 6th in the Directors Cup standings. http://www.nacda.com/
If you look at the team’s ahead of us and behind us, all of them have huge booster support or huge endowments.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
That's awesome.
Does Spetman get any credit? Or is it a function of Hart’s organization?
The Funk Phenomenon.
He is the President of the AD Association so it's probably rigged
I kid, really working on figuring out who is the mastermind behind it all
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Dicks
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 21, 2010 6:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, they have been working on this for decades...
it takes a LONG time to get to $45 Million….it will take longer to get to the almost $200 million neded.
Yes, fat cats, but also average joes...
who put FSU in their will, estate planning, trusts, etc.
Say an average joe passes with a net worth of $800K. If they put FSu in their for 10% of it….that is $80K in the endowment . THAT is how schools make moves here. They have hundreds and thousands of supporters that think so much of the school that they consider it when they do estate planning.
I am in the process myself and plan to give to the Boosters (athletics) and the Foundation (academics).
FSU has $45 Million in the athletic endowment...
it takes almost $200 Million to have all athletic scholarships endowed.
FSU has worked for many years to get to this point.
While it is accurate that FSU is not wealthy, it actually has one of the highest athletic endowment’s in the nation (I would guess top 15 from the last figures I have seen). That said, only the top….maybe 3-5 wealthiest schools really have much of an athletic endowment. Duke for example, is VERY wealthy and is still $150 Million away from endowing all their ships.
Interesting
You would think we were Sisters of the Poor from the way people talk around here.
The Funk Phenomenon.
We are...
OK, I know that says crazy after what I posted, but FSU is basically poor despite having a decent sized athletic endowment.
That is because you really need to be at 75%-100% of your scholarships endowed for it to have a big affect. $45 Million will produce about $1.6 Million a year for a budget that needs $75 Million. In other words, until FSU is at say $150 Million endowed, it won’t make up for FSU’s lack of overall wealth.
Didn’t explain that real well, but I tried.
So what you're saying is that in other areas besides Endowment we are seriously cash strapped?
right. That makes more sense.
The Funk Phenomenon.
So is FSU well endowed or not?
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on Apr 21, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Complicated...
to answer, but FSU’s budget is around $75 Million. The income to cover that comes from many areas (Conference payout, TV payout, ticket sales, donations, etc). Think of it as a table with 4 legs (each a source of income). I am not sure how to describe it exactly, but FSU is generally OK, but the situation can just change quicker at FSU.
If one of those legs goes…FSU is QUICKLY up a creek. Some places live near a Corporate HQ or two that can write a huge check quickly if needed. FSU doesn’t have that in case one of it’s sources of incomes goes away or is reduce. Some schools like UVA have MANY grads that can write $30 Million checks type checks. When you get 4 or 5 of those, you create a stability most don’t have. FSU has had 1 such gift, but it lacks the numbers to create stability. Conference money used to be a stability for FSU, but with the Big 10 and SEC situations, the descrepancies have now created instability from that source of income (because you have competitor schools that can out bid you for coaches and pay for much nicer facilities when they have 4 times the TV payout money). FSU’s other issue is academically, it hasn’t produced high paying jobs, so your average donor might be a bit behind your rivals for donations due to salary differences.
Could go on, but FSU’s BEST bet is to grow all endowments, get better academically, and improve the efficiency of fundraising at all levels like our lives depend on it (because in some ways it does).
Short answer is yes to that...
sorry I didn’t answer directly.
Not correct...
$10 Million that goes to scholarships is from annual donations, NOT from the $45 Million endowment.
FSU has been trying to avoid spending any of the endowment so it can grow as fast as possible.
FYI...
Some annual donation figures for ACC schools (forgive the jumble, don’t know how to post correctly).
Atlantic Coast Conference
Athleticsdonationsin 2006 Overall rankinathleticsdonations Amount raisedin capitalcampaignsfor athleticsinpast 5 years Goal ofcurrentcapitalcampaignforathletics Full-timeathleticsfundraisers
UNC $51,000,000 1 $230,000,000 — 20
UVA $45,240,112 2 $188,100,000 — 19
FSU $29,100,000 11 $155,300,000 $110,000,000 6
NCSU $27,254,723 14 $125,625,000 — 16
Duke $25,495,000 17 $150,000,000 — 15
GT $25,000,000 18 — $125,000,000 8
VT $23,680,688 19 $22,300,000 — 6
Clemson $23,160,000 22 $27,000,000 — 6
Miami $19,200,000 29 $63,000,000 $70,000,000 9
BC $19,000,000 31 $64,000,000 — 8
Wake Forest $12,692,782 46 $63,000,000 $87,000,000 9
Maryland - - - -
Why are we tied for the fewest fundraisers in the ACC?
Is it any surprise we have the least money? Hopefully that reflects 2006 and things have changed since…
Because TK and FSU have made some horrible hires..
with the FSU Foundation president (sounds like Bobby and the football team huh) and other VP positions.
Hey, FSU has been run like a 1950s backwoods institution with a bunch of idiot rednecks deciding things. It is amazing FSU is as in good of shape as it is.
The good news is a lot of those old behind the scenes powerbrokers are now gone.
Thanks, Bud
To me there will never be enough ‘changes in scheduling’ posts for the fanbase. Your response was very thorough.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Apr 21, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions
I disagree
You don’t bring it up too much and RnN’s data cannot be shared too much. When everybody understands we need to schedule smarter and not harder, you can ease up. It still amazes me that more people don’t understand the benefits of an extra home game and a game we win 99.9% of the time.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I’m in the process of changing it. I’ve seen how my fellow TNers feel about it. To save my soul, I’ll put the pic up of the half naked woman again.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Need to play in JAX more.....
It seems we never lose when we play here in Jacksonville…..BTW, I can’t remember the last time we lost in Jacksonville?
FEAR THE SPEAR >>--)-)-)-)-)---->
Might've been 1989 vs So. Miss
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Why would the Gators want this?
They already have exposure in Atlanta.
At one point
Didn’t Spurrier want to move the game? He hated playing us and then playing the SEC CG… they might go for it still, esp. once we start giving Meyer some heart problems by beating him or giving him an actual game that may ruin his NC bids.
Meyer will run and hide if we beat them this season.
He literally doesn’t know what it feels like to lose to us. So depressing.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That was my one regret
When I heard he was resigning (well, I initially felt bad for him and his apparently bad health… that lasted less than 24 hours, though). I want to beat him before he leaves… and it would actually be fun to be one of the reasons he does crack and leave.
Absolutely
Another loss to Bama early will have him reeling and we could finish him off. If that doesn’t do it, yet another loss to Bama in the SECCG should do the trick. Yes. This would please me.
by Jamil Dawson on Apr 21, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Or
We could just pay a reporter to quote another player. (Oh, wait, don’t newspapers already do that?)
Showmanship
That’s why he said it and with good reasons:
1. He knows UF will not give up their formula: schedule easy, especially early, proceed into SEC schedule, finish with FSU at home every other year (the formula we want now also but have the history to say we aren’t afraid to play anyone, anywhere). Now it looks like we are not afraid of the change, possibly to recruits or boosters who want something “special”. It puts the fault on UF for this not happening.
2. Brings attention to the fact that we already play a top team in the SEC without having to say, “look, isn’t UF hard enough”. We still look good while not backing down.
We look stronger for not fearing this and for highlighting our already tough schedule and in reality he knows this is not going to happen. That’s a win/win and Fisher is a smart guy.
But
Once we get “good” again, uf might not want to play us so late in the year. Their current formula only works because we suck. Ask Spurrier if playing us in November worked out for him.
We used to have the advantage due to no conf champ game...
UF adjusted by scheduling annual patsy the week before, and now we’re at the disadvantage, because either our admin or the ACC won’t let us do the same.
So long as that limiting factor is in place (whatever is to blame), it would be to OUR advantage to have this game moved, to level the playing field.
True
I mentioned the fact that they play a cupcake in my post above (“Kidding? Perhaps…”). I still think that once we start putting some pressure on urban he might be more amenable to a change in schedule (if we ever approached them with the suggestion, which I kind of doubt).
I don't see this happening.
I actually don’t mind the idea though. It would kind of change things up a little bit, plus being the 1st game for both teams, neither team would have a major advantage as far as scheduling goes. UF always pretty much has a bye the week before they play us giving them a big advantage imo.
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