Why A Kid From North Carolina (Christian Lemay) Committing To The Georgia Bulldogs Is Good News For Florida State
As you might have heard tonight, Christian Lemay, the top pro-style quarterback recruit in the 2011 class announced his intentions to play for Georgia. You're probably thinking "So what? Lemay wasn't considering FSU." But this announcement has positive implications for Florida State.
The most important of these is that it affords Mark Richt greater job security. Mark Richt is a good coach, but good is the enemy of great and FSU fans should realize that Richt at Georgia is a very good thing for the 'Noles. Florida State does very well recruiting in South Georgia and routinely beats UGA for players within a 40 mile radius of Valdosta. Richt might talk a big game and could even win a few battles against the 'Noles given his renewed efforts in the region. But consistently beating the state school for highly prized prospects in Georgia is an important part of the 'Noles plan to get back on top. And Richt is much, much better than the alternative. What's the alternative, you ask? Why none other than Kirby Smart of Alabama.
Smart is considered the heir apparent to the UGA job whenever Georgia decides that Richt simply won't do. Granted, the Dawgs seem pretty content winning 8-9 games per season (or to put another way, losing 3+ games a season, which Georgia has averaged more than over the last 4 years), but most consider Richt on the hot seat. Smart is a beloved figure at Georgia after walking on and becoming a team captain. But he's even more beloved in South Georgia where he played high school ball in Bainbridge. Smart is an excellent recruiter and the last thing Florida State needs is for the state school to use Nick Saban's organizational recruiting techniques (that FSU is already using thanks to Jimbo Fisher) in South Georgia. Add to the inherent advantage of being the state school and that Smart is a better recruiter than Richt, that Smart knows the area perhaps better than anyone and would be immediately welcomed into all South Georgia high schools, and it's easy to see why FSU fans want Richt to stay at UGA for as long as possible.
Richt will be starting a promising redshirt-freshman quarterback in Aaron Murray this season. Young, talented quarterbacks buy coaches additional time that they might not otherwise be afforded. Adding Lemay to the mix only buys Richt more time. And who knows, maybe he can take Georgia from good to great (doubtful given his team's complete lack of attention to detail and killer instinct), but if he does so it likely won't be on the back of great recruiting hauls from Valdosta and the surrounding area. In fact, Florida State fans annually root for UGA to beat Florida in the World's Largest Cocktail Party and would be quite happy to see UGA succeed provided the Dawgs aren't doing so by cornering the market on the top talent out of South Georgia. And UGA beating UF helps FSU in recruiting as the Gators tumble in the polls. FSU is just too close to the area (45 minute trip to Tallahassee opposed to a 3hr+ trip to Athens) for someone without serious ties to the area (Smart, Kirby Smart) to dominate the region, and hopefully Smart is smart enough not to wait around for the UGA gig.
Moreover, Smart is ready to be a head coach right now. If Richt stays at Georgia two or three more years, I can't see Smart staying as Alabama's DC waiting for UGA to implode. And even though it is thought that the only job Smart would accept would be UGA, I can't see him turning down the position at LSU when Les Miles finally gets the boot in Baton Rouge. That's important to Florida State fans as well, because assuming Fisher does a decent job with the 'Noles, he would be on LSU's short list. LSU can afford to pay its head coach a lot more than Florida State can, so plugging that job (and it seems inevitable that Miles will be gone with the track his program is currently on) with someone other than Fisher is a good thing for the 'Noles. I am not saying that Fisher would leave or would even consider leaving after the emotional capital he has invested in the Florida State program, just that eliminating options is a good thing.
Additionally, Lemay will not be attending Clemson or North Carolina. FSU will almost certainly not have to face Lemay unless it meets Georgia in a bowl game and this leaves Clemson in a tough spot. There are no elite level quarterback recruits considering the Tigers this season and Clemson did not take a quarterback in the last recruiting cycle. No doubt FSU's biggest division rival will get a quarterback this cycle, but there is little doubt that it will be someone other than an elite kid.
As for Florida State's quarterback recruiting efforts, Lemay to Georgia means that Wilcox Co. Georgia QB Nick Marshall is not Georgia's top quarterback target. He is Florida State's top quarterback target and while there is a chance he could go to the Dawgs as UGA is looking to take two quarterbacks (and his cousin plays for UGA), the greater likelihood is that he becomes a 'Nole.
Funny how a 17-year old kid's college choice can impact programs throughout the Southeast.
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This article has Law School success written all over it
Great analytical response to the event.
Team Gold
Good insight
Lemay to the Dawgs is better than Lemay to hogtown. The one variable is trusting Richt to get it done with a great QB. He proven he can do that one yet. If this buys him three more years in Athens then I’ll take it.
You do a hell of a job Bud.
Hasn't won it all but he did pretty well with Stafford his sophomore year.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I agree, well written.
As for Nick Marshell, is this the guy who is also a standout basketball player? If so how does that effect his recruitment. One would think FSU is not the most attractive of suitors on the basketball front. I digress, is his future on the football field or the basketball court?
Also what are Marshall measurable’s? Thanks.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
Yes, he's a top 50 basketball player
But the kid is 6’2" perhaps 6’2 1/2" and his future is NOT in basketball. I just hope he’s smart enough to realize that.
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Is he really that tall?
I’ve seen a bunch of speculation. And I thought he was a stud hoops player?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
He's a stud high school player but he does not have NBA height so his money will be in pro football if he makes it in a pro sport.
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He could play in the NBA as a 6'2" point guard.
Anyway, here’s a clip of him chucking it 70 yards while rolling to his left (he’s a righty).
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
How many 6'2" point guards are there?
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I think a lot.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
6'2"
is probably average for an NBA pg.
http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draft_kit/pointguards1_15.html
Of course, you gotta be able to play
wow hmmmm, Lets start with....
6’1" New York Knicks guard Toney Doulgas, Toney says you can take that “doesnt have NBA hieght” crap and shove it
6'2 is plenty tall enough for an nba point guard....chris paul is straight nasty and he is only 6'
CP7 FOR HEISMAN 2010
Charlie Ward
6-2
played NBA for a looong time.
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on May 1, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Stood next to him once and would be shocked if he is a hair over 6’1"
by Cigar City Nole on May 1, 2010 9:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not certain Marshall is a true point guard
More like a lead guard or undersized two as he is a scoring machine. That could be an obstacle. He seems to profile as more of Ben Gordon type scorer in b-ball. In which case, would indeed make it a bit harder to carve a niche and excel in the NBA. And I’m certain he’ll want to excel at the pro level in whatever sport as opposed to simply just “Making it”.
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Douglas was a scorer, too.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
He needs to play football then
If Douglas is who he profiles closest to. A starting NFL quarterback position would be much more lucrative.
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
His brother plays in the NFL.
Or was at least drafted. Played at Louisville.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
He plays for the falcons.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
got hurt last year but year before was explosive
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
Whether he could make it in the NBA at 6'2"...
would probably depend on his style of play. If he’s lightning quick, then that’s more than tall enough. He’d even have a height advantage over other successful PGs like Chris Paul and Aaron Brooks.
However, if he just over-powers high school kids and can shoot a little, but doesn’t necessarily have elite-level quickness, he’ll get bottled up in the NBA. With all the touch fouls being called, the whole league favors quickness these days.
by TonySopraNOLE on May 1, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That was actually 80 yards!!!
Holy Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FEARTHESPEAR! on May 1, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it went from the 20 to the 10.
Either way he chucked it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Glad this one played out this way
I’m not celebrating his not going to UF, and nobody else should be either, because Driskell is a better fit for them and a baller. Some are saying he is a top 5 QB for his class. But this is great for keeping Lemay away from the Tigers. Most Clemson fans will tell you that Boyd is behind where the coaches were hoping he would be. Compound that with the lack of an elite QB and the uncertainty about Parker and the Tigers’ QB situation is a pile of crap right now for years to come.
I havent been following 2011 recruiting much, yet. Who is Driskell?
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
Slimmer, right handed Tebow type kid out of Orlando
plays for an awful team.
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So Tebow lite?
Also just saw that Marshall plays in 1a Georgia, that stinks the real comp is in the higher classifications.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
I agree their competition is not good, but he did lead them to states last year I believe and has a lot of talent.
We targeted him very early in the process and at this point I pretty much trust Fisher’s QB evals unless something looks really weird.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Gators will spend the next 10 years
chasing the “next Tebo”, much like I hate to say, FSU fans have been looking for the “next Charlie.”
Marshall is the next Charlie
That’s all could think of when I watched him in playoffs last fall, Elusive like Ward, can throw on the run and probably has a stronger arm, Yeah, he plays for a small school, but if you can throw it 70 yards and land it in a bucket, that works anywhere from 1A to NFL.
Boldin was the next Charlie
and, with his size and ability to run through as well as around tacklers, he could have also been the first Tebow, with proper coaching, and some receivers. In the bowl game against Georgia, they switched him from WR back to play QB and he threw it sixty yards in the air and landed it in Talman Gardner’s hands. Gardner, as usual, got wide open and dropped it.
I work with one of Boldin's cousins in Belle Glade
We talk about that game all the time, he said Q (at the time) was pissed, if that pass would have been caught (pretty close to the end zone i believe), along with some other plays that could have been called (as he says) that game could have been won. There were ‘tebow like’ plays available that weren’t called. Anquan is still my favorite Seminole, mostly because I work down here in the muck
It was indeed close to the end zone
and Gardner had his man beat by three or four yards. It was a sure TD and would have changed the complexion of the game. Thanks for the background.
I dunno
I was quite satisfied with Weinke.
Thought that was fhe kid they got from Venice
At least that is what gator fans told me about Burton … saw him on tv a couple times and was less than impressed
by Cigar City Nole on May 1, 2010 9:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Burton is a similar size and style as Tebow.
Just not nearly as good.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I saw Lake Nona HS QB game:
this kid (big kid 6-3, 6-4) Kevin Sousa play. He is basically the entire offense by himself. I hope FSU gives him some time…he has strong, strong arm.
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on May 1, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Lake Nona--Orlando
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on May 1, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
LSU?
If Fisher is a success here. We will match whatever another school would offer. It would boil down to where Fisher wanted to be, not money.
You think FSU could pay what LSU could pay? Those two programs are on two different levels in terms of finances.
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And the gap is only growing.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I understand the finances point,
But I don’t think anyone really knows FSU’s ceiling right now. We have been down for around 8 years. I think Fisher wants to see what he can actually do with FSU before he leaves for better money. Power and money aren’t the only things that drives a man’s mind, the ability to create a legacy is just as important. I’m not taking away from the money argument cause I know that’s important. Theres always a possibility that FSU’s greatness is behind her, but at this point in time does anyone know FSU’s true potential? Obviously, I’m biased but I’m interest to see how high Jimbo can take FSU.
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
Whatever the cieling is, LSU's is much taller and the gap is widening.
I understand where you are coming from/.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 30, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I respect your views since your football knowledge easily surpasses mine.
My question now then is how do we stop the gap from widening (pertaining to any of the top tier SEC schools)? or can we?
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
We've gone down this road before and I don't want to start another firestorm.
Not sure about the second question though.
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My bad.
I think my question is more directed at is it possible to stop the gap from widening. From the other posts I’ve read, most of the things FSU can do are all “If’s” nothing really concrete.
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
I don't beleive it is, no.
Not if both programs are on the top of their games.
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Let's all go get rich
And donate like crazy.
Seriously, though, I like the “concrete” question. Be a booster, encourage others to become one. That’s a start at the micro-level. I think we need to develop some long-term plans, though. It’s unlikely we’ll ever catch them, but I’d love to try.
I got my booster packet the other day.
Really, really good publication (“Unconquered”) came with it, with some GOOD stories, pictures, etc.
Plus I got my booster license plate, too. Awesome
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm currently out-of-state
But I plan to return to Florida soonish. Can you request lettering on a booster license plate, or do you have take random numbers/letters?
Its a front plate...
Generic, but the design is kewl
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 8:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good Post
Putting the ongoing inferiority complex that festers at TN aside, the head football coach position at FSU is a sweet job. Our conference alignment and recruiting territory puts us at a unique advantage as compared to other teams in terms of winning the national championship. You young bucks need to realize that once you get around $2 mil yearly, you’re pretty much secure and there’s really no need for greed – Geez, there was even a time when BB could have left for more money. If JF is successful, and I believe he will be, he sticks around Tallahassee for the long haul – the exception would be if he can’t resist the NFL a la Davis, Spurrier or even Saban. He simply needs to get thru the ACC to put us in a position to play for the championship.
I do think he would leave for the right NFL gig because competitive people always want to
test their meddle at the highest level of competition. Some would argue that is the SEC in college ball.
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And I edited the article to say
I am not saying that Fisher would leave or would even consider leaving after the emotional capital he has invested in the Florida State program, just that eliminating options is a good thing.
I did not want to imply that I had inside knowledge of his desire to leave or that one even existed. Hope that clears it up.
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Well I heard that Saban
was looking at the possible new coaching possibility at Florida Tech and that Alabama would go after Fisher. They would then offer Smart $1.5M/year to stay on as defensive coordinator.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
This could be bad
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Maybe we go after North Alabama's coach? Perhaps West Georgia?
We are screwed. Then the conference realignments may screw us even more. We are going to be the Paris Hilton of college football.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I guess you guys are too young to remeber
when LSU stunk. We played them in the early 90’s and the only guy who could make our team was their punter. Likewise, Georgia was a train wreck for more than a decade before Richt arrived. Its hard to believe now, but Spurrier’s success was much in part due to the SEC being sorry.
I was making all that up.
I know those programs weren’t super great during our dynasty.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
How much do you think they'd pay?
If we could pay Bobby $2.5M for years without him doing much, we could certainly pay Fisher more than that in a couple years if he is making clear progress, no?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think they would give him 5 if he wins the ACC in 2011
They will pay stupid money to compete with Saban.
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 30, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it may depend on 2 things:
How fast he is turning FSU around, and
How far LSU had fallen.
If they offer 5 and we only offer 3, well, he may leave.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
would you leave "school you worked at" for "school you used to work at" for 2 million more dollars?
Assuming you are not an alumnus of either institution?
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I just said he may leave.
Just looking at those few things, probably. But their are emotional factors that may or may not be in place that could change that. Because as a guy that doesn’t make over 1 million dollars each year, there’s not much difference between 5 million and 3 million to me. Both are great salaries.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I agree.
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Annnnd
depending on conference realignment and the schedule difficulties and team revenues, that may impact my decision also. If it looked like FSU may join the SEC, if need be, I would likely stay. If it looked like the ACC would be stuck adding USF, UL, UC, WVU, and maybe Memphis and UCF because ACC teams left for the 16 team SEC, I would likely leave.
I know what you’re saying/asking. And it just depends (on a lot).
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
You can’t measure emotional capital that he has already invested in the program. He’s gone through the bad times to get where he is now. I don’t think there’s any way he leaves right when he’s on the cusp of reaping the reward.
This is a great point and I am not saying that he would leave, just that LSU could offer him more.
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 30, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
They would have to to get him to move back to Baton Rouge
One of the most polluted cities in the U.S. I don’t know if the 2m bump would be worth it. Quality of life in Tally is better.
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
Fisher would be on LSU's shortlist?
Why, because of his prior history with LSU? For a person to be on a team’s shortlist there has to be interests on the coaches part.
Are you indicating Jimbo would be interested? Regardless of how much money LSU is willing to dole out, I beg to differ. If money were the issue, he would have bolted for WVU when he had the chance. I believe Jimbo truly wants to be here, so the money issue is a moot point.
Yes, because he's as close to Saban as they can get and because of his prior experience there.
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His wanting to be here may be true but...
LSU is likely a far more attractive spot for Fisher than is WVU. You can just tell that Fisher would love to be a HC in the SEC.
The SEC is obviously a more attractive conference to be a HC in right now, but...
with luck JF will be a head coach in the SEC at FSU in a few years.
May be more attractive, but more competitive and harder to achieve success
I do not think Fisher would jump ship this early @ FSU to go into a tougher conference
Agreed
it would be tough for him or any head coach to go straight into that situation with our current situation, but in a few years in could be an okay transition. Hypothetically; which division do you think we would be in? My guess would be whichever one FL is not
2 NC's in the last 8 years...
1 of which he was the OC for, the other from much of the structure and personnel that he helped build vs. what we have been in the same time frame. Add more money and being top dog in LA recruiting as opposed to currently fighting for second place in FL recruiting, and is it really that much of a stretch to see Fisher giving some heavy consideration to an LSU offer?
The SEC is different now than it was when LSU won their first NC. You can't compare the two eras.
And “what we’ve been in” does not mean the situation will be just that for years to come. Sure we will have to compete with Miami and floriduh for recruits, but FSU has proven, especially this past year, they are VERY capable of landing the top talent in the state of FL.
He would be a top dog in LA, but the talent he is pulling in the state of FL is equal, if not better, so that would not necessarily be a big improvement.
As for the money, sure it would help, but I think Fisher can help pull in enough cash for this program to be a national title contender year in year out. Getting more money in the SEC would help his cause of course, but there are a lot more roadblocks in his way of winning a national title which i believe is his goal.
Is it a hard stretch to see him going to LSU? Yes!
First let me say that it was funny how you dissected everything I said only to twist the main point in the end...
Read it again. Nowhere did I say Fisher would leave FSU for LSU. I simply said with all of those things weighing in, how could he not give the opportunity serious consideration? He gave the WV opportunity serious consideration, then decided FSU was the place for him at that point in time.
I certainly am not on the train of “Fisher just got here, let’s see where he is going next.” I want the guy around for a long, long time. He has me sold with his actions, not his mouth, that he is Our Guy.
However, I have begrudginly accepted over the last several years that College Football is a business – pure and simple. I am just trying to look at these situations from a “does this advance my career perspective”, rather than through my loyalty and emotional connection to FSU. I see from your post that you do not feel it would be a career advancing decision for Jimbo to leave FSU for LSU. You might be right on that, but I would think it would warrant serious consideration.
I doubt that we will ever reach the LSU - SEC cultured, rabid raccoon bitten, control the recruiting of an entire state
fandom, but I do believe that our fans have been fueled mainly by nostalgia for the last decade. If Jimbo and company are the goods, then I see us reasserting our elite status, and along with that, the dollars will be there to keep him here. I’m with those that truly believe he wants to be here.
by TEMPORARY LIKE ACHILLES on Apr 30, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah
Unless he’s a great showman, he does seem to want to be at FSU. I loved the part in the recent Dodd article that said Jimbo smashed a radio after FSU lost to UM in 1987 (despite the fact that Jimbo had led Samford to a blowout victory that day).
If he really has been an FSU “fan” (I’m not sure he was as serious as most of us, but he seems to have been a follower of FSU football), I don’t know if he leaves for more money. I know if I was good enough to HC at FSU and lead us to greatness, I wouldn’t care what anyone else offered. Heck, with wise investing practices, he can make himself and his family independently wealthy from what we’ll give him.
I’m not saying he won’t leave at some point (sooner than we’d want), but if he wants to be here he’ll stay.
Angry Georgia Fan
from Steve
to FSUncensored@gmail.com
date Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:09 PM
subject UGA/Richt
hide details 10:09 PM (45 minutes ago)
UGA is content winning 8/9 games per season? You have got to be kidding. FreeShoesU, and that dinosaur Bowden I guess have been content at winning 6/7 games per season. You play in that sissy-ass A-She-She conference. FSU chickened out when the opportunity to join the SEC presented itself. Please.
from Tomahawk Nation <fsuncensored@gmail.com>
to Steve
date Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:54 PM
subject Re: UGA/Richt
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 10:54 PM (0 minutes ago)
Steve,
If UGA cared about winning they would have fired Richt by now. Good is the enemy of great. FSU canned a guy who was a legend after an entire decade of mediocrity. FSU has been playing ball for 40 years and has more tradition than UGA has in 100. I root for a team, not a conference. What has your team done? Not much.
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I get a few of these every day and do not typically respond, but for whatever reason this struck a nerve.
Perhaps he was bashing us for “having Bowden.” First, Bowden is MUCH better than any coach they ever had. Second, we got rid of him so bashing us for being “content” with him doesn’t make sense.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Hell, they stole a Bowden acolyte.
Dont bash the tree that gave you the fruit you are eating.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Can someone explain this FSU not going to the SEC thing?
I have read similar comments about FSU not joining the SEC when we were looking for a conference. My understanding was that in the late 80s/very early 90s FSU and Miami approached the SEC as independents and wanted to join together. However, certain teams complained(I believe they were some of the ones in their now current western division) and the SEC said either no to both or that only one could join. Then FSU and Miami split to the ACC and Big East because they got better agreements with those conferences.
Oh I don't know. I think "Steve" is the ultimate authority on not only Georgia and FSU, but the entire history of college ball east of the Mississippi
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I'm no expert.
Too young to know what “really” happened. But from what I’ve read FSU tried for decades to get into the SEC. SEC always said no. Finally UF started to get on our side in the 80’s but the SEC was overall against it. When the opportunity arose to join the ACC we took it. Easier football schedule (but we still scheduled UF and UM each year along with other top ooc teams). Better basketball. Better academics. And we won 2 titles in our first 7 or so years in the ACC.
The SEC apparently was looking to expand, too. But we decided to go a different direction. They apparently were finally ready to extend an invite but we were over them.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I know that the faculty was strongly against the SEC
for reasons of academics. Sure, they have a great school (Vanderbilt) and UF is stronger overall than us, but top-to-bottom, the ACC is a much, much stronger conference academically and the faculty put their weight (how ever much that carried) behind that.
by scalp n spank on May 1, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not too young, and I followed the process closely.
By 1990, FSU was the national media darling, drawing huge TV audiences. HS bands in Oregon were using our marching music. Radio stations in Ohio were carrying our games. Our coffers were full. After years of rejection the SEC came calling to get a piece of that, and they arrogantly assumed we’d snap up their invitation. Problem was, the SEC was full of has-beens, and we had far surpassed their notoriety at the time. Plus, the ACC came calling. Humbly. And one of the first things they did was check out our campus and our academics to see if we’d be a fit.
As someone noted below, the faculty was clearly in favor of the ACC. One professor was quoted in an article as saying that “The SEC invokes the image of a guy wearing a t-shirt with his gut hanging out, running into a stadium with a slab of ribs in one hand and a bottle of Jack Daniels in the other, yelling soooo-eeeyyy!”
I personally spoke to my former professor Chuck Earhardt, who was chair of the exploratory committee, and told him I preferred the ACC for similar reasons. He said that sentiment was widespread. I worked with one of the most prominent boosters, (who would later become national prez), and we had similar discussions.
At the same time, the ACC was offering us a better financial deal, as it was flush with basketball money. The theory was that the ACC would raise our level of B-ball, and we would raise theirs in football. An added bonus was the opportunity for academic synergies that would enhance our reputation there. The SEC? Naw.
When the SEC Commish (whose name escapes me) found out we were seriously considering the ACC and leaning that way, he “withdrew the discussions” in a huff without a “formal” offer, so as not to suffer the ignomony of a rejection, and instructed the SEC schools not to play us going forward. UF had to, but LSU and Auburn quickly canceled the series they had going with us. To bad, because we had been beating the SEC schools like a rented mule.
The rest is history.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on May 1, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
You have provided more details than what I remember, but your scenario is pretty dead on and how I remember it going down. REC.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
The SEC, rebuffed
Around that time, FSU had played well against Auburn, which then contended strongly in the SEC, as well as UF.
When FSU chose the ACC, the media in SEC cities (e.g., Birmingham) reacted childishly, accusing FSU of cowardice. Which to me showed that the choice of the ACC was a good one.
More. Read it bottom up.
Steve, your team does not play tougher teams. I already gave you the proof of last year (FSU 5th UGA 18th). FSU played a tougher schedule in 2008 as well (though we were damn close. You were 14 while we were #12). In 2007 when you had your big year, you played the 34th toughest schedule while FSU played the 12th.
In the last 10 years Georgia has had its best run ever and has not even played for a national championship. UGA won what, a single conference championship?
Who has more recently won a national championship? FSU. In fact, the ’Noles have won two since Georgia won theirs.
You’re simply incorrect about the scheduling. Perhaps we would win more games if we played UGA’s schedule?
- Hide quoted text -
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Steve <@bellsouth.net> wrote:
We are talking about my team. My team plays tougher teams, which FSU does not, which has allowed it win all those games. 14 consecutive t5 finishes is ancient history. What has FSU done past ten years?
Thanks,
Steve
On May 1, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Tomahawk Nation wrote:
> Our schedule is tougher than yours, Steve. Being in the SEC isn’t tough on its own. You have to actually play the good teams in the SEC.
>
> http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/437129/2w2q45u_medium_medium.jpg Read ‘em and weep.
>
> Also, 2 national championships in the modern era, 14 straight top 5 finishes, etc. FSU is better than UGA in every way. Enough with the conference stuff. Let’s talk about your TEAM.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Steve <@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Winning games in the ACC doesn’t equal tradition. When has ANY team from that weak conference won anything of significance?
> RPI?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
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Furthermore, UGA is the Clemson of the SEC.
(You know, did something 1,000 years ago and simply will not shut up about it;)
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
by Scalpemall on May 2, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno
Richt has as many winning seasons as UGA had in the 20 years before his arrival – and even with playing more games, his winning percentage is as good as or better than the best they’ve done. I’d say they should be pretty satisfied. He’s won two SEC titles (played for a third), something UGA had not done since 1982. UGA probably should have played for the BCS NC instead of LSU a couple years ago, but some silly people thought that if they couldn’t win their division they shouldn’t play for the NC (I say if you can’t beat Arkansas in the LAST GAME of the season, you shouldn’t play for the NC – talk about “devaluing” the regular season, for all the anti-playoff people).
If I’m a UGA fan, I’m not terribly upset with having Richt. How long did it take Bowden to win a NC here at FSU? If we have more history in 40 years than they have in 100, what’s that say about meyer vs. Bowden (and the number of NCs they both have vs. years coaching)? Richt’s personality may not strike us as an “elite” coach, but how many of those are really out there? UGA is in the toughest division (usually, when UT isn’t down) in the toughest conference – and yet he’s done better there than anyone has in a very long time. And though meyer may have his number most years, is there anyone whose number he doesn’t have (he hasn’t played Saban enough to make that call yet)?
If NCs are the only way to keep your job, 99% of coaches would be fired after 5 years. There just aren’t enough NCs to go around.
The west is tougher than the east
East has Kentucky, SOCar, and Vandy. West’s bottom is much better.
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Perhaps right now
But when uf, UGA, UT are where they normally are, SC is rarely a complete pushover… Kentucky has some decent teams; Vandy is the weakest link, usually.
I think the west is starting to look interesting, though.
Let's compare them as programs
Bama/ UF = Push
LSU > UGA
Auburn/ Tennessee= push over the last decade and certainly after the Kiffin fiasco
Arkansas > SoCarolina in pretty much every year
Ole Miss > Kentucky (in the early 2000s no, but now for sure)
Miss St> Vandy (Vandy is Vandy)
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I conceded "now"
But back in the 90s (which is where we FSU fans live, right? LOL) the East was much better, I think. Most of the west has been too inconsistent – Ark, Miss, and Miss St seem to be pretty good for a couple years and then drop off again. Even Auburn has been having spurts of mediocrity. It seems Bama and LSU have been the relatively consistent teams that you have to worry about in any given year. For a while, uf, UT and UGA were all strong, with decent UK and SC teams. Even Vandy used to have some relatively staunch defenses (able to hurt you, if not stop you).
But I think we can compromise on “tough division in the toughest conference,” right?
Agreed the East was much better in the 90s
I think Auburn had a one-year spurt of mediocrity, but they won 9+ games like 8 times in the decade.
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UGA probably should have played for the BCS NC instead of LSU a couple years ago, but some silly people thought that if they couldn’t win their division they shouldn’t play for the NC
That isn’t a BCS rule; it’s a conference rule. There was nothing that kept UGA out of the title game except for the SEC rules on who wins the division. Once LSU won the SEC, who would vote UGA in over them?
I would have
UGA lost both games pretty early (last loss was to Tennessee on 10/6; other loss was a close one to SC in the second game). LSU lost to UK on 10/13 and then Ark on 11/23 (last regular season game).
UGA and LSU didn’t play; Tennessee won the East on a tie-breaker due to the head-to-head match-up with UGA. Conference titles don’t automatically make you the best team in the conference – it often means that the numbers worked in your favor. Sure, LSU beat the UT team that beat UGA – but UGA beat the UK team that beat LSU. Blah blah.
You're forgetting a very important
two triple-overtime games.
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I don't care
LSU lost to Kentucky and then to (a respectable, true) Arkansas team in the LAST GAME of the season.
In CFB, a late loss is almost always the kiss of death for NCs (uf managed to back into one in 96 thanks to a slew of weird upsets; but at least they only had one loss, and technically probably did have the better team that year).
Why should it matter when you lose?
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Why shouldn't it?
Teams that are playing the best at the end of the season tend to win championships – one, because most sports have playoffs; two, because in CFB that’s how it has almost almost worked.
It could also matter when you lose if your star player misses a game (but has since returned). I think most pollsters would be more forgiving of such a loss than another one (i.e., when they lost – when the star was out – would matter).
CFB has never been all about who has the best season – anytime there are not 2+ undefeated teams, it has always been about who lost when.
So should I be penalized more because my tough game was scheduled early and not late?
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Uh...
That actually helps UGA. You mean late not early.
Why did you say both Fisher and meyer are for moving the FSU/uf game to the start of the season? It helps the losing team recover. Embedded in that is the CFB ideology/culture/pick-your-encompassing-term that late season losses are weighted more.
You can argue to change that, but it’s the system in place every bit as much as subjective polls.
Well that the polls are subjective and they didn't weight it much that year obviously tells you something.
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Fine
I actually don’t much care about this issue. But, Richt’s proximity to the BCS NCG that year is worth noting.
It indeed it
But if we were to go back to pre-1993 days w/o overtime,
LSU would have been 10-0-2
UGA 10-1 (blowout loss)-1
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Conference titles don’t automatically make you the best team in the conference – it often means that the numbers worked in your favor
Best is such a subjective term in college football, based upon time and progress, that it isn’t really the most effective way to mark who deserves what. Given what they were handed, UT earned the bid for the SEC Championship game more than UGA. While your point about UGA being better at the end is probably very true, playing well at the beginning of the season is part of the resume.
So is playing well at the end
And in CFB that has always trumped early slips.
In terms of playing your best at the end, yes. In terms of being a championship program, no. You must do well enough in the beginning to earn a championship at the end. UGA didn’t do it.
I think Richt fits what Georgia wants perfectly, and I think he can win a championship eventually. But they have to put the excuses aside and just do it.
But
Everything you say about UGA not earning it in 07 applies to LSU. And with those things being equal, I would revert back to the team that lost less recently. And that was by far UGA that year.
LSU had the more impressive body of work
2 losses were in triple overtime (so extremely close games)
Destroyed VTech
UGA has the bad loss on its resume, by three touchdowns to Tennessee
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LSU still won their division. They earned it relative to the other options. And then they won the SEC Championship, and then won the National Championship. When it comes down to it, LSU did what they had to, and UGA didn’t.
Now, on a completely different point, LSU was such a supremely talented team that it is surprising, and frankly embarrassing, that they did lose two games. They had two top 5 draft picks on the defensive line, and 19 draft picks overall.
Why do UGA fans incessantly brag about the strenght of the SEC but never win a damn thing themselves?
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Because its all they can hang their hat on,
all the SEC teams use it as a defense even though only Bama, UF, and LSU have really won anything of significance.
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
Because if they face the reality that what makes the SEC great is its elite group (Bama, UF, LSU)
they have to realize the remaining 9 aren’t special.
More than 20 teams have won a championship since Georgia last won its championship. 4 from the ACC (Clemson 1981, GT 1990, FSU 93/99, Miami 2002), and 4 from the SEC (UF, Tennessee, LSU, Alabama)
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Guilty
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To be fair, Miami was still in the Big East in 2001
they lost the 2002 BCS game to tOSU.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
yeah, but reading the list that Bud wrote
he was using the “season” as the year → eg. FSU 93/99
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
But the team is in the ACC now, so o don’t see why it matters what conference they were in. Sure the big east can claim the title, but the team carries their resume wherever they go.
by jasonole59 on May 1, 2010 6:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Then why not include all 5 Miami NCs?
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
I'm pointing out that when you're talking about the quality of the teams in the ACC,
you have to include that fact that Miami has 5 MNC, that VT has been to a BCS championship game. These are strong programs, regardless of where they were when they won them.
Sounds like you got Steve's panties all twisted up in a wad and they are chafing him something fierce.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
Sounds like you got Steve's panties all twisted up in a wad and they are chafing him something fierce.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
My only question about the piece...
Is the assumption that Smart is an “excellent” recruiter. He’s mostly been at bigtime programs that allow him to pull elite kids (LSU, UGA, Bama), and he’s always been tied to Nick Saban aside from the year at UGA.
He’s only 34 years old, and though I don’t doubt his ability to develop a defense (schematically and developing talent to fit it), how hard can it be to recruit with Nick Saban in your corner, and when you’re coaching for the top dawg school in your state?
I know that there’s a rivals page where you can search by recruiter, but I cannot find it.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 12:37 AM EDT reply actions
Everything I hear says he is a great recruiter.
But he covers a lot of non-Bama territory.
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More than likely he is "great",
I’m sure that we could send Frank and Matt out on the road and they’d pull in recruits if Nick Saban was at the top of the pyramid and their team was coming off a NC.
I’m just saying. It’s gotta be pretty damn easy.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
How easy was it for Amato, Dickey, Allen, Carter, Sexton, McHale, Fredo, etc?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I really don't see the relevance here.
You mentioned 7 different coaches from completely different times in the FSU timeline, with different circumstances surrounding each.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
They all coached at FSU
within the last 5 years, during a period in which they didn’t have much success, like pre-Saban Alabama and had a “legend”-type head coach with Bobby. What part isn’t similar to you?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Lemme get this straight...
You’re saying it WASN’T easy for them? Right?
Because if you are, I’m prepared to make the point on why it’s probably easier to recruit in Smart’s position in 2008, 2009 than the 5 you mentioned coaching for FSU 2004-2009.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm saying why it was easy to recruit at FSU.
If it’s not working that’s my bad.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
That was a strange way of agreeing with me.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 1:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bunch of rum will do that.
Recruiting at FSU should’ve been fairly easy for those guys. We hadn’t yet hit our three 7-6 seasons in 4 years patch and were still thought of fairly well nationally. However, they weren’t good recruiters.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I was fairly confident that you had tipped a few last night.
Something was definitely off. I wasn’t going to ask you directly, but I had a feeling.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I love this quote
good is the enemy of great
I’ve used it as a sig elsewhere for a few years now.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Loved it too
My first thought, “Jim Collins knowledge, on the rocks, be@tch”
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on May 4, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Georgia Grad
I typically don’t comment on blogs and I normally don’t read other team’s blogs, but this article came up when I searched for news on LeMay and I felt compelled to respond to this ridiculous “article”.
The comment that Dawg fans are content with 8 win seasons is completely off-base, and anyone with any knowledge of college football knows this. Bulldog fans have been extremely dissapointed with the results of 2008 and 2009, years in which we went 10-3 and 8-5 respectively (FSU went 9-4 and 7-6 with an easier schedule). We overhauled our entire defensive staff. The idea that we would be better off with Kirby Smart as our head coach makes no sense either. Mark Richt is a proven winner with 6 top 10 finishes and 2 SEC titles since 2001 and he is an outstanding recruiter by any measure. Kirby may be a good DC and have some ties to S. GA, but he has no head coaching experience. If you asked just about anyone in the country who they would rather have as head coach of their team they would pick Mark Richt over Kirby Smart. I know most FSU fans would love to have him back as head coach.
As for recruiting in S. GA I disagree that “FSU routinely beats out UGA within a 40 mile radius of Tallahassee.” We wanted Greg Reid, I will give you that, but other than that instance I can not think of many others. Over the past few years we have relied too heavily on Atlanta-area and out-of-state recruiting and have not paid enough attention to S. GA which has made it easier for FSU to pluck the kids they want out of Valdosta and the surrounding areas. Richt has publicly stated his mission to regain S. GA and I expect the class of 2011 will be full of S. GA guys such as Nick Marshall, Jay Rome, Ray Drew and Isaiah Crowell. I am not implying that we will get all of those guys, but I anticipate we will get more than one.
Anyways, we are very pleased to add Lemay to our strong 2011 class and I’m impressed that you can somehow spin it to be a positive thing that you did not get an elite recruit that you offered.
FSU's 2008 and 2009 schedules were not easier. I love how SEC fans assume their schedule is easier even despite not playing some of the top SEC teams.
In 2009 FSU played the 5th toughest schedule while UGA played the 19th.
In 2008 it was close with FSU playing the 12th and UGA the 14th.
FSU fans definitely do not want Mark Richt.
UGA is not getting Marshall, Rome, or Drew.
Crowell is not a SoGa kid.
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Kirby may be a good DC and have some ties to S. GA, but he has no head coaching experience
How much head coaching experience did Mark Richt have?
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I should expound upon the recruits
First, you desperately wanted Telvin Smith last year and were beat for him as well. The top prospect from SoGa for two years in a row has been a ’Nole.
Nick Marshall could be a Dawg, but why would he go sit behind Lemay? He could play basketball for y’all since your bball team is awful.
Rome is already committed to Clemson, he loves Clemson, attends every Clemson home game, etc.
Drew is interesting. Grew up a ’Nole fan, wants to stay close to his church (FSU is 45 min away, UGA is 3 hours and 45 min away), wants to play DE not OLB, etc. But GA is trying hard for hi,.
Crowell is All-Bama and plays for Carver, which is as far from South Georgia as you can get.
There’s a good chance UGA will lose out on 6 of the top 10 recruits in the state.
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Proposed edit, (since banker dawgs might actually read),
would be as follows:
“I love how SEC fans assume their schedule is HARDER even despite …” (Change capitalized)
The stats are right on as a foundation to the premise.
Not sure why you need to use "article" in quotes
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because he is a "banker"
And we all know how witty “bankers” are.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Yeah, next time you pay down your credit card and notice you have a higher APR, despite having immaculate credit, thank a banker
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
I also said 8-9 win seasons and that he is on the hot seat
Are you satisfied with 8-9 win seasons? Or is he on the hot seat? You seem to be arguing both sides as well.
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uga_banker is walking away with his Dawg tail between his legs after being smacked with those facts.
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
Or...
he could be hoping that they can recapture the 2007 magic during which they beat an 8-5 UF team with the youngest defense in the country and an injured Tebow.
Or the 2008 year during which they had the #1 pre-season ranking, the #1 pick, and lost 3 games including one of the most embarrassing beatdowns (Bama blacks out the UGA blackout).
Recapture the magic.
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The thought of Richt coaching at FSU terrifies me
UGA supporters are the biggest rah rah SEC “Fans” out there. I find it repulsive that fans can hate UFAG (UF for the unitiated) or any rival for 12 games per year and then root like hell for them to win it all when UGA hasn’t played for a NC since Reagan’s first term and before the guy who runs this site was even born. That cannot be disputed, I have a good friend who’s an Atlanta native and UGA fan who pulls the same shit. I routinely have to hit him over the head ‘Homey the clown style’ with facts whenever he tries to pull that BS.
As far as Lemay is concerned, we were never a serious consideration for him. So please stop inferring that we have sour grapes, we are not Cane fans. You obviously haven’t a clue of being able to recognize when dominos fall and chess is being played because Big boy football is never something to be viewed superfically. Your comments reek of naivete. Nick Marshall is a kid that we’ve wanted all along due to his physical upside. We would have taken Lemay but would be more than happy if we get Marshall. Lemay’s commitment makes that more possible. We’d rather see Christian go to UGA as opposed to UF or Clemson. Two chief rivals that we play every year.
You can keep Richt, him remaining in Athens is a part of FSU’s plan to ascend back to national prominence. In parting: Take this back to hedges with you. Learn to hate your enemies (Not cheer for them to win what you cannot). And please……follow the dominoes!
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
uga_banker was also not alive to see UGA win their championship.
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Meh.
I’m pretty pro-UGA. First, one of their main rivals is my main rival. Please, UGA, beat uf every year. Plus, regardless of what might have happened anyway, I remember Richt fairly fondly as I associate his parting in ’00 with the start of the Lost Decade… I wish him and UGA well. I also think the fact that he took the HC job at UGA before the NCG was a factor in our offense getting blanked – way to go, Jeffy! (Oh, and one of my favorite people is a UGA grad.)
Also, ever since UM joined the ACC I’ve hated them less. I’d much rather FSU play in the NCG, but if UM played USC or Texas or most other teams in it, I’d cheer for them – it makes the ACC look that much better. As long as we take care of business, I don’t mind UM doing well (not that I want them to be great; at least not until we get there again). If they win a big OOC game, again, it makes the ACC look better. So, yeah, I can see how UGA fans would support uf in the BCS NCG (they’re actually supporting the conference, not uf).
While this UGA fan could have been a little more polite, I don’t think we should attack UGA and its other fans. Seriously, if someone would have made similar comments about FSU, wouldn’t we have gone on the warpath? Bud even admitted that he usually doesn’t respond to such emails, but this one rankled him because of a slight to Bowden – someone who has been much maligned around here recently anyway. I understand why a fan would get defensive over derogatory comments. And when angered, people often don’t think through (so, yeah, maybe some of his later comments sounded extra dumb).
Anyway, I’m all for a truce with the Dawgs.
by Invictus13 on May 1, 2010 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I could not cheer for Miami to win the championship
besides hating them, any conference prestige gained is off-set by the recruiting boost they gain.
I agree we should call a truce with the Dawgs and their delusional fans ;)
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by Bud Elliott on May 1, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My hatred for uf
So far surpasses any other hatred, even UM. It makes it easier not to hate UM… plus, my hate for them waned a bit after we beat them 5 times in a row in the 90s; then, in the 00s I realized that they weren’t so much beating us as we were allowing them to beat us; and, they joined the ACC and I’ve taken on a bit of the SEC’s conference-ism – the better the conference looks, the better we look.
Don’t get me wrong – the only way I want them approaching elite again is if we are there first (and stay a step ahead). And as long as we get our share of SoFl players.
by Invictus13 on May 1, 2010 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My hatred for UF and UM is pretty equal, with the edge going to scUM because in most of their 5 NC's, our Bowden led team did not show up or blew the game at the end. Plus I grew up in So. Fla. and have to hear their arrogance on a daily basis.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
Understood!
I spent about six years in the hogtown area; thus my inexpressible hatred of all thing uf.
UF
I actually heard a FSU friend say she was rooting for UF in the National Championship game because she wanted a Florida team to win rather than another state. After a stunned silence, I patiently explained the nature of true hatred; if Hitler was playing UF, I would root for Hitler!
by 85Nole on May 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ooo, close call
I’ve often said that my hatred goes: terrorists, murderers/rapists, uf. Hitler may fall under a broaden “terrorist” category… but it would be fun to see uf lose.
+1
Im also an 80’s baby and when Miami was truly great I was too young to actually follow the game. In the mid to late 90’s UF was who I literally hated. Miami had fallen due to the near death penalty. Spurrier was an A-hole, and the annual battle was truly good vs. evil for me. I remember sitting in my grandma’s barbecue shop watching the Choke at Doak game as an 11 year old and not turning the tv even when we were getting smashed. I just loved watching our Ends tee off on Wuerful (sp) and whatever qb stepped on the field during that era. Keep in mind that I lived in Mississippi and had no ties whatsoever to FSU. I dont know why but UM just had my respect. They always had game changers, they were cocky in a way that we were during their early decade run. I just never really hated them. Maybe because I knew the best athletes in the nation were either at UM or FSU.
You took the words right out of my mouth. REC.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
Oh no doubt
I’m pro UGA myself. Sometimes folks need to get set straight when they get “Out of Pocket”. I just don’t wanna hear anyone spouting off about the “Strength of the SEC” when their respective team hasn’t done a damn thing themselves. I root for the dawgs, and not only when they play UF. As for Miami? Sorry, I’m an 80’s baby born to a Sooner family (I strayed obviously) so I’m kinda predisposed to hate the Canes even independent of my 20 plus years of Nole dedication. Truce with the dawgs, to hell with Canes!!!
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
And once again, I just have to say to any dawgs out there
No glory to your enemies! UF,Bama or LSU would never cheer for you to win a damn smoothie blender, much less BCS crystal!
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
(Okay, this is totally hypothetical – don’t laugh, but…) What if UM played Bama for the BCS NCG in 2010? Would you cheer for Bama and a 5th consecutive NC for the SEC, or for UM and an ACC NC?
(Yes, UM would get a recruiting boost – but I think we’ll get a great class, too. And, it’d keep Shannon there for a while; don’t most people think that’s good for us??)
UM winning hurts us more because "The U is Back"
Bama can’t get much higher.
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In the hypothetical
People would say “The U is back” just by them being in the BCS NCG. They’d make more money with a win via merchandising, but by being #2 they’d be close enough to the top to be “back” as far as recruiting goes.
I actually kinda like Bama. My brother spent some time there. Even tutored Keith McCants. Still, I think I’d prefer to start an ACC run (with us chipping in the next 2-3 NCs, lol).
Besides, can you be objective there?!? Aren’t you up in Alabama?? ;)
Even if I was at Auburn, I'd root for Bama over the Canes if I was a 'Nole fan.
I can’t endorse this conference pride stuff. I root for FSU, not the ACC, unless the ACC team winning doesn’t help me.
Playing in a strong conference doesn’t mean shiattte to me because we get UF every year to silence the doubters.
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Well
One reason the SEC teams have all those big TV bucks is because their conference is perceived as an uber conference.
Some people lately have said they’d like FSU to get into the SEC (Craig said that, didn’t he?)… the main reason? All those dollars, right?
It was also timing. They negotiated their deal before the market completely crashed.
Having a great conference won’t put us in the SEC and there is no SEC-like tv money for a 2nd great conference.
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We won't get that much
But we can get more than we’re likely to get right now. Weren’t you one of the posters arguing why the ACC isn’t a viable football conference? (I tend to agree – overall lack of fan support, indicated by attendance and stadium size.)
I've stayed out of it
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On the ACC/viable thread
You did say, “The ACC is not marketable in football.” That quote was probably what I was thinking of.
As of right now, but I don't think the benefit of an ACC natl champ outweighs that champ being Miami
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Fair enough
A weak UM is definitely a plus for us, especially now. I think once we get “back” there’s room for them to improve some without destroying us. Though I’d be fine if they were a solid 7-5 team every year, heh heh.
I'd like a total collapse. Our schedule is fine without them being dominant as long as we play UF
and we need to cannibalize them.
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haha cannibalize
Yeah, I would love to be able to shut up all the people down here, its extremely aggravating to see them flashing that ridiculous hand sign at me. I have to be honest, I feel 10-15 years from now, FIU will be the strongest team down here. As long as FSU is getting 65% of the recruits down here, FU and UM/FIU can split the remaining 35%
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
I guess it depends on your POV
Do you care if the ACC is great or if FSU is great? Pulling for Miami because we couldn’t get it done is like Georgia pulling Florida because they can’t. Sacrilege, to me at least.
Exactly
We need Miami to suck in order to make it easier to poach dade and broward county talent. An FSU footprint in metro miami would do us wonders
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course
I want FSU to win it. Every year. I love dynasties, and I love pulverizing opponents 70-0. But we won’t win it every year. And when we don’t, it’d be cool if someone in the ACC did. It’s like a playoff – if you don’t win, you might as well cheer for the team that beat you so that you can make an argument for being the second best team (even if you lost in the first round)…
You could make your scenario more interesting with different teams.
Miami VS OSU for the title would see a bigger split. Rationally we’d still want Miami to lose for our benefit. But who wants to pull for a northern school, especially OSU? Southern pride gonna’ kick in. Even I’d have to think long and hard about that one.
Now you're sounding like a Georgia fan
If it is VTech, UNC, or GTech, I am fine with it. If it is a division rival or Miami, I am not OK with it.
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Nah, I'm cool
If Miami is playing for a NC then we DON’T want Shannon there. Shannon’s not an absolute train wreck like Coker, but he’s on track to ruin their talent base in a methodical manner and that we like. Coker just drove the whole damn thing off a cliff in a Ferrari spyder
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
2012
The 2008 master class is gone and their team will be 2009 and 2010 guys. Look at that for a minute.
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#17 enrolled class in 2009, and their 2010 class is awful.
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Latwan Anderson
I shudder to think how thats gonna work out. Dudes a piece of work from what I hear. I know Ted Ginn Sr. wants a do over. LOL
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions
BAMA!!!
I’d have my Derrick Thomas (RIP) jersey ready! My support for FSU goes back to when we were an indepent. I want them to hit rock bottom. It’s enough room for two, but not three
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
He would have maintained the decline,
same as Tommy, Terry, Amato, Scott, or anyone else who learned everything about coaching and running a program from Bobby.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on May 1, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad you feel this way. Convince all other UGA fans the same.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
Georgia_banker is a very typical Georgia fan
His rhetoric is no different than most of what you’ll find on the Georgia boards:
- they love Mark Richt….because he’s a good man to rep their school, he’s a good coach in their minds.
- they are very content with 8-9 win seasons, as long as they finish or begin the season in the top 10 every once in a blue moon.
- they have no serious aspirations to reach Bama or UF’s level
- they don’t miss what they haven’t had…at least in recent memory.
- when any FSU fan points out that Richt is mediocre, they assume that’s sour grapes, and the Nole nation would love to TWOCOAT back. (for you youngsters, its what a large percentage of Noles were calling Captain Predictable by the mid-late 90’s- The Worst Offensive Coordinator of All Time. While many of us were thrilled he went to UGA so we could get a smarter OC, we got Bobby’s idiot son instead, and he quickly assumed the title).
I feel sorry for my son- He’s a leader in the UGA marching band (Redcoats), and all gets to experience is Richt’s underachievement.
I feel good for my alma mater, since fans like Georgia_banker will see to it that Richt stays put. By the time they figure what FSU has done while they’ve been sleeping, it will be too late to do anything about it.
btw, expect more impassioned Mensa candidates form the Dawg fan base to come over and talk about the Lost Decade, the ACC and anything else that deflects attention and allows them to maintain their fantasy about Richt..
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on May 1, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to agree.
The only reason I would have sour grapes over Richt’s departure was that we ended up with Jeff Bowden instead. My dad thought I was crazy for wanting Richt gone at the end of the 90’s. He IS a good guy and I hope UGA fans continue to be content with that and the 8-9 win seasons.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Mark Richt is UGA's version of Leonard Hamilton
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Richt > Hamilton
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
How so?
1.) Both have been coaches roughly the same time.
2.) Both are praised for their high character, as well as producing high character guys.
3.) Both have been accused of reaching a “ceiling”, and their respective fanbases are divided on how they view them.
4.) Both are able to recruit very good talent, but have underwhelming results…
Are you saying Richt is greater because he’s white, Trick?
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
And because he’s actually won his conference – multiple times – and is a fixture in the top 25. Granted, UGA is a better football program than FSU is basketball, but would Hamilton win the ACC if he were at an NC State or Maryland?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I never said anything about their respective "programs"...I was comparing them as men
Sometimes I think you respond without really trying to understand what people are trying to say. Just because Richt has won a conference twice doesn’t make him all that different from Hamilton.
Besides, comparing success in football and basketball relative to rankings is fruitless…The structures of determining who is the “best” couldn’t be more different.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You just enjoy throwing subtle insults my way.
I agree with your 4 points above. I think Richt’s ceiling is higher than Hamilton’s, making him better. Not tough to follow.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
We're not mind readers...
I will tell you that I find it incredibly arrogant when you post a 3 word reply like “Richt > Hamiilton” (which I think everyone will agree is completely devoid of any explanation, regardless of position), and then expect us to understand what you’re trying to say. Saying as little as possible allows you to expand your argument, taking it any which way you see fit.
There was a hundred different ways to reply…you decided to go with “Richt > Hamilton”, which in and of itself, is a very lazy response and without any explanation is indeed “tough to follow”.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 2, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
I wouldn’t call 5 top 10 appearances in 9 years “once in a blue moon.”
Perhaps it does seem like Richt has hit a ceiling – but its a pretty good ceiling to have. I understand why UGA is giving him more time to win the big one.
I understand the thinking that Richt is a mediocre X’s and O’s guy. But when he’s had more success at UGA than anyone has had in a very long time, I’m not sure he hasn’t done some things right. His departure from FSU also proved that he meant more to the program than most of us realized – we clearly weren’t able to live off of just Bobby and Mickey.
Again, Richt may not be an elite coach – but how many elite coaches are there? Would they be able to get Saban, Carroll, meyer, or the guys leading the other big-name programs? Or would they have to go to an unproven guy who everyone THINKS will be elite (and I’m sure there are stats on that). Who should UGA hire in Richt’s place, who is not more of a gamble than keeping Richt and his success?
His Xs and Os are fine; it’s his program building skills that are troublesome. The amount of arrests he consistently has are indicative of a culture of negativity.
Yep, but Meyer has won two titles. Unfair, but it’s part of the game. I can assure you that if Meyer has 5 players arrested this year, and UF goes 8-5, he will catch heat.
If meyer goes 8-5
He won’t have time to “catch heat” – he’ll have already cracked up! ;-)
A meyer crack up is inevitable
In fact it’s already happening, IMO. He’ll be out of his gourd no matter what happens. There is no way he maintains excellence. He’s never stayed at one place and done it before. No reason to think he could.
I dunno
Without his Dec. crack-up, I don’t think there would be a reason to doubt meyer’s ability to maintain. He’s moved around a lot, but that’s because he was able to move up quickly: Bowling Green 2 years, Utah two year, now uf for five.
Each move was a clear step up. Like Kiffin jumping from UT to USC after one year. A bit slimy? Yeah. Understandable? Definitely.
I think it's harder to maintain excellence for the long haul
than it is to bring in a new scheme to a new situation and make a splash. Especially if that system leans a bit gimmicky. Perhaps wishful thinking on my part but, maintaining excellence is something meyer has never had to do. And it’s a challenge, even for the best coaches.
Maybe it would be better to say maintaining dominance. You can be excellent but not dominant. Bob Stoops comes to mind and does SOS.
Good points
Many coaches do come in, make a splash, and then level off. I hope meyer levels off (or cracks up, heh heh).
I don't expect another Meyer meltdown, even though I would pay money to see it. Our best bet is for the NFL to come calling. Otherwise, I think he is in for the long haul.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I don't think NFL teams like his system
There’s not much evidence that he can run a pro-style set. Burton will more than likely play this year and they did choose Driskel over Lemay
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually think his x's and o's were getting stale at FSU
way too much downfield stuff, abandoning the run game, no short passes.
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I kind of feel that they their football fans are similar to my basketball fandom at FSU
They can say they arent happy winning 8-9 games, but bankerman pretty much contradicted himself in a single post. The fact of the matter is they prob have some sort of a complex. Yes, that is another way of saying that I, in fact, have a complex. I love to say Im not happy with Hamilton. I think he is a great recruiter, who does some good things with our team. He also had a few nice seasons, and other times, hey what can you do.
The point of this you ask? They dont feel they can get anyone better. They will bitch and moan about wanting to be better, but when its time to whip it out and slam it on the table, they shrink from the big boy table. I dont like Hamilton, but feel he has taken us to our highest tier unless there are a LOT of changes in the infrastructure. UGA fans, they arent “happy” with 8-9 wins, but they fear the alternative. What happens when you pull the cloth back to see the wizard, and there is just a decrepit old man looking at you.
Its cool UGA fans, I just ask that you dont take it out on us for calling you out on your willingness to be above average.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
But
They are averaging TEN (10) wins with Richt, not 8-9.
Thanks very much
… for inserting a bit of fact into this discussion. I honestly don’t know where this “content with 8-9 wins” stuff is coming from. In Richt’s 9 seasons, he’s won 10+ in six of them.
I agree there’s no need for any Georgia fan to crow about tougher scheduling and the mighty-might SEC when comparing ourselves to FSU. At the same time, I don’t think it makes any sense to go on and on about UGA fans’ being satisfied with 8-9 win seasons when that just doesn’t happen. Richt has had three such seasons: 2001 (his first), 2006, and 2009. He came back from 2006 with 11-2 in 2007 and a final #2 ranking, and in 2009 UGA fans were screaming for the D staff’s heads (which we got).
UGA is 13th all-time in winning percentage (one place behind FSU with 464 more games played and with a 6-4-1 advantage over FSU). UGA is tied for 7th (with Florida) in winning percentage, nationally, since Richt became head coach and has the second-best SEC record during that time with a winning record against every other SEC team except Florida (2-7, ouch) and LSU (3-3).
Clearly I can’t speak for all UGA fans (neither can “Steve”). But I’m old enough to remember The Herschel Years (only one regular-season loss in three consecutive SEC championship seasons) and the Goff era. I was at the only two UGA-FSU games played in my lifetime (1-0-1). And my father was at UGA during the 1950s, likely the nadir of UGA football.
I’ll readily concede that our “glory years” (early 1940s, early 1980s, 2000s) are not nearly as glorious as FSU’s (your Richt era). But most of us UGA fans have a much broader perspective that I believe engenders greater patience when it comes to things like firing a head coach.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
In the past 4 seasons he has lost 4, 2, 3, and 5 ballgames. Are UGA fans content with that?
You seem like a very reasonable UGA fan.
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Not at all.
Now, again, I can’t speak for all UGA fans, but I’ll tell you about what I think is the general consensus among the UGA fans I know. We’re not content with losing 4, 2, 3, and 5 games in a 4-year stretch. we’re not content with going 2-7 against UF over a 9-year stretch (they’re going to catch up with us in the over-all record if we’re not careful). Hell, we’re not content with losing to GT even once in 9 years.
Two SEC championships in 9 years (after 20 with none)? We’d like it to be a little better. 6-3 in the Deep South’s Oldest Rivalry (including the last four, the first such run since the 1940s)? We’ll take it. 5-4 against Tennessee, a program that beat us every year in the 1990s? It’s certainly an improvement.
I get the observations about penalties, turnovers, and off-field troubles. No, we’re not content. And I get the points about our money, recruiting resources, and facilities (even though Bama’s about to pass us for 2nd largest stadium in a conference of giant stadiums) and how one would think that would lead to even better success. I think those are very good points.
But what programs have better records from 2001-2009? Boise State, Texas, USC, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and LSU, and Florida’s tied with UGA for 7th. Yes, all of those programs have played for and/or won national championships in that time frame, except BSU. Almost all of those programs have resources (of all varieties) that are at least as good as UGA’s.
Should UGA be doing better than UF, Texas, Ohio State and USC because our money and recruiting grounds are superior? Really? (and I wouldn’t hesitate to throw out a scheduling argument re Boise State.) I understand we’re positioned to do better than VPI, Oregon, Clemson, and Nebraska. And guess what? We are doing better. We have Bama, AU, FSU, UF, UT, GT, Clemson, South Carolina all focused intently on our state’s rich high school talent. The fact that we’ve done as well as we have on the field shows that something is being done right and well.
Richt’s slow to act, perhaps. He’s loyal to a fault, maybe (re players and staff). Sound familiar? But we UGA fans likewise are a patient bunch. I’m not sure that the last few years is a long enough sample to conclude there’s a downward trend. There are just way too many factors, not the least of which are the deals with the devil going on in Gainesville. We may be able to look back in another ten years and say, “Yep; there was a turning point there.” But the possibility that we might be slipping is not reason enough to fire a guy with Richt’s success to take a gamble on someone who may or may not do better. Saban, Stoops, Brown aren’t leaving their gigs.
I think you’ll see continued attention by us fans on turnovers and penalties. We will pay particular attention to how defensive player personnel and scheme develop this and next seasons. We are convinced that Richt is no more content with the things than we are.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Should UGA be doing better than UF, Texas, Ohio State and USC because our money and recruiting grounds are superior? Really?
Not than Texas, UF, and USC. Those are the three A+ programs regardless of coach. I’d argue UGA has done as well as OSU given OSU’s weak schedule.
Richt’s slow to act, perhaps. He’s loyal to a fault, maybe (re players and staff). Sound familiar? But we UGA fans likewise are a patient bunch. I’m not sure that the last few years is a long enough sample to conclude there’s a downward trend. There are just way too many factors, not the least of which are the deals with the devil going on in Gainesville. We may be able to look back in another ten years and say, "Yep; there was a turning point there." But the possibility that we might be slipping is not reason enough to fire a guy with Richt’s success to take a gamble on someone who may or may not do better. Saban, Stoops, Brown aren’t leaving their gigs.
This is a really good argument for giving him more time and your first part does sound familiar.
In some ways, coaching at FSU hurt Richt. He learned how to coach at FSU when you have an enormous (and unsustainable) talent advantage over everyone. That leads to sloppiness because for the most part, you don’t need great discipline to win under those circumstances.
Richt’s biggest on-field fault (not that his teams don’t play with toughness and discipline) is the lack of a run game. UGA gets into more 2nd and 8+ and 3rd and 5+ situations than any team with comparable talent. The run game did not “turn around” last year as many Dawg fans I know believe. No, instead the schedule got much easier. UGA could not run against OK State, So Carolina, AZST, LSU, UF. But it did kill the crappy defenses of Vandy, Auburn, Arkansas, Kentucky, GTech, Texas A&M, and Tennessee Tech (none of which are top 45 defenses). Richt relies way too much on downfield passing and play-action.
UGA’s 29th ranked offense was 75th in run efficiency and 9th in pass efficiency (this is adjusted for opponent so teams like Boise don’t get unfairly rewarded). That must change. They absolutely need greater balance on offense because the good and great defenses do not fear the play action.
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Run offense
I’ll agree with you there. I grew up watching Dooley offenses. I mean, we were running a veer in the 1970s. Our 1980 national championship victory over Notre Dame had one complete pass. I’m an old-fashioned kinda football fan. I like 13-10 type games where 90% of the action is between the 35 yard lines and a first down is a huge victory. So yeah, I miss emphasis on a running game.
But there is some truth to the running game’s having turned around last season. There were early problems with the O-line, and some injuries among RBs. And it’s hard to blame anyone for downfield passing when you have the best WR in the conference (when he’s not missing games — I still think A.J.’s absence from the GT game may have been the best thing that could have happened, since it forced Bobo to focus on the ground.)
Conventional wisdom says that we’ll rely heavily on the running game in light of having an young, inexperienced QB. I hope Murray’s an incredible passer. To paraphrase a friend, I hope I don’t find out until about halfway through the season.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree the OLine improved.
Much better than the 2008 Blackout game.
Do you think Richt/ Bobo don’t do enough mid and short range passing? It seems to me UGA runs power, sweep, play-action deep pass out of the I, gets int he gun and runs a draw, or gets in the gun and throws deep. Works if you are the 1992 Cowboys.
What shocked me was discovering that the 2008 team had the 26th best run efficiency and the 4th best pass efficiency (5th best offense in the country overall, which is obviously tremendous. Overshadowed by UF’s #1). Really great job of coaching that year with a patchwork OLine.
And in 2007, UGA had the 34th best offense overall with near perfect balance (run efficiency was 30th and pass efficiency was… 30th).
There are some very good teams who rely on the big play. And Richt is very good at doing that. But it seems that against the really good defenses, it is sometimes more about avoiding disaster and avoiding the long situations.
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My limited capacity
I have to assume the coaching staff knows more than I do about what’s going with our personnel and how best to deploy them. But I often have wondered if the fact that our head coach and OC are both quarterbacks doesn’t skew things somewhat. (as an aside, how many former OL players go on to be head coaches (Fulmer’s the only one that immediately comes to mind)? Because along with QBs, they’re the smartest guys on the field.) Anyway, running to set up play-action was the offense that made David Greene (one of those cliché QBs with good-but-not-great talent but exceptional game knowledge and “decision-making”) the winningest QB in Div IA history (until that Texas guy last year).
Mid- and short-range passing was about all we saw at the beginnings of the last two seasons due to OL injuries. We had a momentary lapse at TE in recent years and a QB in 2009 who was very accurate with long balls but not so much with the shorter passes — at least, that was my impression and without looking up the stats.
For 2010 we’re flush with TE talent, pretty stout at FB, set at OL, and at the very least adequate at RB (all barring injuries or scootering under the influence, of course). We’re told good things about what’s left of our QB. I think the offense will be fine, and I will expect more reliance on short-to-medium gain plays. I’m still worried about defense.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for taking the time and for posting your thoughts logically and eloquently .
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
The most common position for a hear coach, by %, is QB. Then tight end
Tight Ends understand the run game and pass protections. Something WRs and RBs do not.
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Not than Texas, UF, and USC. Those are the three A+ programs regardless of coach. I’d argue UGA has done as well as OSU given OSU’s weak schedule.
It’d be a weak argument. The Big Ten’s two weakest seasons in the last ten were 2007 and 2008. Even just using those two seasons averaged, Ohio State’s team FEI is 11 while Georgia’s is 14.5. If you include 2009 and 2006, Ohio State’s jumps to 7.75 while Georgia’s falls to 17.75.
And this isn’t even including the most important category- tangible results. Ohio State’s national title, 4 BCS bowl wins, 6/9 conference titles, domination of their biggest rival, and factoring into the national title picture every year has Georgia beaten in every way. Perhaps the next decade will be kinder to the Bulldogs, but we will just have to wait and see.
Ohio State has also had a lot more opportunity to garner those BCS wins due to their weak conference.
I will give them credit for playing USC and Texas in the non-con.
As a Big10 guy, doesn’t Penn State’s schedule drive you nuts?
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Here is what I wrote about PSU keeping JoePa
The Big 10 went way downhill thanks to the death of middle America and PSU started playing 4 cupcakes per year in the non-con. They aren’t winning because they kept him.
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Dominating their biggest rival?
8-1 doesn’t count? Oh. You mean Florida.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ohio State has by far the best talent base in the midwest
I must say that I wonder how things would play out if the Buckeyes faced conference opponents with with similarly deep talent pools to pull from. That has to account alot for their dominance in an otherwise weak conference. The dirty little secret about Michigan is that they have to nationally recruit to build their teams (Not to much different than Notre Dame. Albeit not as drastic).I’d imagine most talented kids in the Buckeye State tend to favor OSU from an early age
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Michigan must share its lesser talented state w/ a better program (Michigan State) than OSU must do with (Cinci)
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That must be why Michigan offers RB's out here and signed 3 or 4 Pahokee kids in 2009 too
Never thought about MSU and Cinci though. Interesting point
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Tressel has consolidated the talent in Ohio to Columbus. The reason the Big Ten has been “down” is because he shut off the talent that was being siphoned off to Penn State and Michigan. We have had to recruit less nationally because his relationships with high school coaches have payed off.
And the wide-spread talent exodus of the Midwest...
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We are grateful to PA and OH
… for the first Heisman Trophy winner from a southeastern school, Frank Sinkwich (born McKees Rock, PA; grew up in Youngstown).
by NCT on May 2, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I must say that I wonder how things would play out if the Buckeyes faced conference opponents with with similarly deep talent pools to pull from.
Conversely, I wonder how we’d do if our program was situated in the South. It’d be nice not to have to travel out of our region to fill out a class.
You'd probably rather just secure the Brian Rolle's, Anderson Russell's and Jeremy Cashs' to fortify your existing talent pool
and call it a day. Coming South and having to bang heads with UF, UGA, Miami, Bama, (and lord knows who else) is not for the faint of heart. Good luck with Gorman though. Hope you guys can snag em!
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest
It’s better to be like Texas in recruiting and how they have their state locked down and can cherry pick talent.
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, in the extreme case of Texas it is better. But when you are in a region where Ohio and Pennsylvania are the only two major talent providers, it is awfully tough when you have multiple programs vying for the same talent (OSU, PSU, Michigan, ND, and Pittsburgh.) There are also second tier programs that pick off individuals, and this effect is more pronounced within a smaller talent pool.
I believe there are just as many kids who participate in HS football in Ohio as there is Florida
Even though the population is bigger in FL. Just like there are more kids playing ball in Texas than it is California despite us having more people. Population is a good point of referencel when assesing the talent pool of a specific area. But there are some flaws
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m more referencing BCS talent output. The state of Texas puts out so much BCS talent that it’s better to have first pick of that state than it is to battle with other schools in a more talented region.
But Ohio does not produce anywhere near as much BCS talent as Texas.
The way I figure it
Florida splits its talent 4-ways. UF, FSU, Miami, everyone else including OOS.
But Texas, IMO, gets a larger share of its state.
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Texas absolutely has the best position in recruiting. It makes their struggles before Mack Brown even more mind-boggling. USC has a prime position too. Their alumni base is the wealthiest this side of the Ivy League. I’ve heard numerous stories of boosters providing a little “bump” in recruiting throughout the Pete Carroll years.
I was thinking Texas still got hit hard by OU, TAMU, the rest of the Big XII and maybe LSU.
But looking at last year’s Rival’s Texas 100 rankings, UT took 60% of their top 10, 55% of their top 20 and 19 of their top 43, or 44%. All 19 were 4*.
I looked at the Florida top 100 and of the top 43, FSU, UF and UM only landed 22. So Texas definitely has it made.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Then get into the question of
“because they get them so early, does Texas disproportionately influence the rankings in that state”
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I would imagine so.
Not sure I’d have a problem with it either.
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---------------------------------------------------------
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"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Texas has a reputation for having kids that don't develop
I think it is a problem and believe that the state rankings are too loaded up with kids who are older at that age and that the rankings are ignorant of kids who have late birthdays and are not 19 1/2 year-old seniors
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You're referring to the 'State' of Texas right?
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm referring to UT not developing kids into freaks,
but the rankings refer to the state.
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An asst. coach was quoted as saying
“Texas kids have access to better weight facilities at their high schools and develop quickly. But after 4 years in college sometimes they’re still the same player. And people have noticed that While a kid in Pahokee who’s eating two meals a day finally gets into a college weight program and turns into a monster”
Kinda reminds me of the situation with Kelvin Benjamin. He turned 19 in his junior year while Kyle Prater is still 17 and making plays at USC spring practice. I saw in a documentary in Ohio sometimes they’ll have a kid “redshirt” (Repeat 8th grade) for football purposes (The school was the famous Massilon Tigers if you’re wondering). Interesting indeed
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you'd be surprised to see how many kids are held back in 7th for that reason
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Then I'll assume that it happens in Florida as well
That doesn’t happen out here at all in football. We’re behind Texas and Florida and probably Ohio in terms of the ‘organization’ of the state’s football culture so to speak.
The LA/Orange county area produces talent due to sheer size. They are way more organized from a basketball standpoint. San Diego has a very strong football culture in the inner city and beyond(Our four heisman winners all grew up within a 15 mile radius of each other). It’s rather intense. However, it’s more organized at the youth level than it is in high school. So a lot of talent gets lost in the cracks
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Jimmy Claussen was held back wasn't he?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Then I don't think that's a problem due to the kids committing to Texas.
I think it’s a problem with the very way kids are evaluated. If they’re overvaluing the now and not trying to look 3-4 years down the line once these kids mature and get into a college program, that’s a flaw in evaluations, not necessarily a bias towards Texas commitments.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Isn't that the little brother to the question
of whether McDonald’s All American guys in hoops become that way because the sign with Duke?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on May 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes it is
but does Duke sign all its guys in such an early fashion as Texas does?
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I think so
I grew up by John Scheyer and I remember he comitted to Duke pretty early in his Junior year. It was funny cause his high school coach is Bruce Weber’s (Illinois) brother and he couldn’t get him to go to Illinois…I remember the Illini fans I know were not happy about that.
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by Curtain Jerker on May 3, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
They also recruited guys like Corey Maggette, Brand,Boozer, and Jay Williams too
I have heard guys get bumps in their ratings because of who’s offered though. Most scouts wouldn’t have classfied the Wear twins as McDonalds all american caliber. But, obviously, they got recruited to UNC
by westcoastnolefan on May 3, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ochuko Jenije was a 3* until VERY late when he was offered by (a mediocre) Alabama and (mediocre) FSU.
He immediately jumped up to a 4*, and not even the lowest 4*, a middle of the pack 4*. The Rivals scout said it was largely based in part on those 2 schools offering him.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Texas has had to fend off Oklahoma since the 80's
But really, as someone said: Texas only has to “recruit” (In other words: compete) 5-6 kids per year, the first 20 fall into their lap. UT just has to evaluate kids carefully to see who they’ll take.Because the rest of the Big 12 will get theirs from the state since UT can only take so many. Big 12 standouts like Reesing, Talib,Briscoe (All went to Kansas), and Chase Daniel are from the Dallas area (except Reesing). And Sean Weatherspoon is from Texas as well. So there are plenty to go around. UT can just pick off the top end kids first
by westcoastnolefan on May 2, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Recruiting is local. If we were able to have a state with the talent of Georgia, and the proximity to Florida, Alabama, and the Carolina’s, it would be easy pickings with our resources.
Because you have Texas-type money?
Or the closest to it?
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We have the second largest athletic department in the country. And we trade off with Texas in the largest number of alumni per year, depending on that year’s graduation numbers. Our coffers are full.
If we were blessed with the proximity that Southern schools have to multiple talent bases, it would be a huge improvement over the current talent base. Right now, our recruiting efforts are subject to the yearly output in Ohio talent. There was a big dip in high school talent in Ohio in the mid-2000s (roughly 04-7 ish.) It hurt those recruiting classes deeply.
But you wouldn't dominate southern recruiting like Texas does in Texas because the other schools are closer to you in resources than those are to Texas, IMO
Also, Texas is the clear Flagship, a designation that helps.
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Definitely. But having more tertiary options helps. It’s easier convincing a kid to go one state over from Florida to Georgia than it is from Florida to Ohio. It’s eye opening for kids when they have to take a plane to visit their school of choice.
True, provided that they are not from Alabama.
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On a side note
What OSU blogs do you frequent? What do you like about each? Do you wish SBN had a good OSU blog?
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Do you wish SBN had a good OSU blog?
My God, yes. I’ve had a brief presence on each of the 3 failed OSU blogs on SBN.
SBN needs to absorb an existing, popular blog rather than force a new one upon the public. There are so many OSU sites out there already that further dividing the readership won’t work. If I could choose one that SBN would absorb, it would easily be Eleven Warriors.
They’ve been at the game a long time, have amassed a large community, and have even been given press credentials for certain functions at Ohio State. I don’t actively participate in their community, but they do an excellent job providing content. They have two interviews with recruits on their site right now, even.
Looks like they only do 15K unique traffic per month
That number has to be off.
I didn’t know of the two previous failed OSU sites, only the last moron.
Do you have interest in running one? I know in the past we’ve combined two smaller sites into one SBN site.
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I’d have interest in helping, but I’m not sure I’d want the responsibility of running one from the ground up.
The biggest issue will be an install base that is active. OSU already has 3 pay sites (Scout, Rivals, and Bucknuts) that hold a substantial user base. I’m not a big fan of pay-site discussion, and blogs hold a different role so the real competition will be Buckeye Planet.
If there was a site with a moderate install base that wanted to transfer over to SBN, I’d be more than willing to help out.
You know, the more I think about it, the more interest I have in being involved in a Buckeye SBN site. I think there’s a void in analytical Buckeye blogs, and the SBN has quite a few Buckeye fans spread across several blogs.
I might know a few people with experience who would be interested as well.
Keep me up to date on the SBN plans.
Will do
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Now Im all curious to know what was with the last one
did a little digging, couldnt find anything by him. When I went to his site, there was no discussion about it. Gossipy, I know, but I would think a team with a fanbase like the buckeye (terrible as it is) would have a more successful blog ala UT(either of them) or us.
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This post pretty much sums up your line of thinking
Weirdly biased (in fact the whole thing just seems like an ‘oh they got a good QB? Good, maybe that’ll help us land Marshall’ line of wishful thinking, which will possibly/likely come true, but still…) and almost completely ignorant of our situations.
What have we been seeing again and again and again in this post and comments’ section… “They’re happy with this or that, they only win this or that, they only did this or that because of this or that, blah blah blah.”
Well first of all, as I’m sure others have pointed out by now, Richt’s averaged 10 wins per year. In the SEC. How has FSU done in that regard (in a weak conference) since he left? Sure, the last few years haven’t been great, but they’ve been at the very least comparable at worst, if not mostly superior to ANYTHING FSU has done in the last decade.
And hey, I’m sure you know A HANDFUL of Georgia fans. Good for you. They certainly don’t represent me, nor the rest of us. Do you have a subscription to the DawgVent and the rest of our message boards? Then how in the hell could you ever even attempt to definitively state what “we’re happy with?” You have no clue bud. There’s been more discord and infighting between Dawgfans than ever before in the Richt-era over the last year. They seem to be divided into 3 groups, FWIW: “Disney Dawgs” who think Richt can do NO wrong nor should ever be questioned, the Level Headed Realists who realize that while he’s no Meyer or Saban, he’s still better than most out there and has done a lot to turn around our program from the Goff and even Donnan days… and finally the Angry Fed Up guy, who even still appreciates what CMR has accomplished, but is done with him and ready to move on. And even then there are areas in between, so to paint us all with an even broader brush than I just did is absolutely absurd, especially as a completely ignorant outsider who apparently, literally has no clue “What Georgia Fans Think.”
And finally, the part that made me post… Georgia not running enough. Well plenty of us will agree with that. Bobo will have 2nd and 2 and pass two straight times behind the line of scrimmage. Hey, you see that name?! BOBO. There’s another one I’ve rarely seen mentioned, do you even know who that is? It’s who is at the very worst partly, if not equally or more to blame for the running game’s shortcomings. But those perceived short comings last year? You’re simply wrong, as per usual on UGA matters apparently, on the reasoning. First of all, schedule wise, throw out Tennessee Tech and WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT it got easier? Are you saying the ACC Champs we straight ran over and rolled through (rushing wise) were easy? Then why didn’t you beat em, why weren’t you ACC Champs?? Florida certainly isn’t easy by any means, yet we rushed for more yards vs them (and sometimes A LOT MORE) than we did vs the likes of LSU, OK St, AZ St, Tennessee & S. Carolina. And finally, the REAL reason why: BOTH CALEB KING & WASHAUN EALEY WERE OUT INJURED THE FIRST HALF OF THE SEASON!!!! But again, I wouldn’t expect an FSU fan to really know these matters, just gotta wonder why that doesn’t stop them from speaking as if they know all, and then some regarding Georgia football. The first part of last season, Carlton Thomas & Richard Samuel were our RB’s. Samuel was THE guy vs the likes of SC & Arkansas… you know where he’s at now, once we finally got healthy? Linebacker.
TL;DR, and in conclusion, what I’d say are the majority of your main points and reasoning for this post are at best ignorant and at worst FLAT OUT WRONG. I mean honestly, I’d get it if a post like this was coming from an all of a sudden “Back IN YOUR FACE!” out of the woods Bama fan over the last year or two, but FSU? Really?! A team who hasn’t done nearly as much lately, albeit in a much weaker conference, talking all this junk??? That’s just swell.
Wow dumb
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Plus
In 12 years of the BCS only 12 teams have played for the title. That’s a pretty exclusive club. As I’ve said, I would have put UGA there instead of LSU in 07, and UGA only missed out in 02 because there were two undefeated majors (13-1 in the SEC will get you in most years, as we’ve seen).
And while UGA may have only had the #15 recruiting class this year, they’ve had top 10 recruiting classes every other year dating back to at least 02 (all that Rivals lists).
God help Jimbo if he doesn’t win a NC in his first few years… that seems to be the primary knock against Richt as HC. (Yes, he has had some bad losses, few “signature” wins, and has had trouble beating uf – but Carroll, Tressell, Mack Brown, Stoops, Bowden, Spurrier, Beamer, and just about every other major coach has had the same things said about them – until they won the big one. And in several cases, that big one was a long time coming.)
Your point is valid, but I think the counterpoint is that UGA is trending the wrong way. Weaker recruiting classes (on paper), and increased SEC competition doesn’t bode well for the future.
True
And that’s why the new D coaches this year. I just think Richt has done enough that they are just in giving him time to shore up the weak areas. If Richt hires a “Mickey Andrews” type of DC, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape.
Team will still play very undisciplined ball though
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Not to mention increased competition in the recruiting game from Fisher/FSU...
Just another direction from which the heat is coming.
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by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong
Nobody that understands football would trade Fisher for Richt as a head coach. Georgia also did not play a tougher schedule than FSU. This propaganda is drilled into SEC fans that they play a tougher schedule than anybody else but it does nto stand up to any rating of schedule anywhere.
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Damn...that was fast.
maybe next time let this stew till morning….for a bigger audience.
New TN poll…who would want Mark Richt back as head coach at FSU?
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by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 2:00 AM EDT reply actions
I want Mark Richt!
What has Jimbo won as a HC???!?!?!?!
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
The same number of national titles as Richt as HC
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by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jimbo has never lost a game as a head coach.
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Ann say hello to the grand kids
neither had Richt when he took over.
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Yet they've won the same amount of national titles.
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by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Jimbo hasn't lost as many times to UF though...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Jimbo's squad would manage to come up with 17 points against OK in the Orange Bowl
even if he was leaving to take the LSU HC job, so we would now have the additional MHC that Richt denied us. So I take Jimbo. (Try blaming that one on the defense. Please.)
New TN poll…who would want Mark Richt back as head coach at FSU?
Three years ago, I would have said, “Yes, please!” Once Bobby made it clear that he wouldn’t fire Jeff and more or less said, “You’ll have to go through me” to get rid of him, I thought, “Okay, Bobby – if that’s your choice. Thanks for your service!” (Yeah, I was ahead of the curve on forcing Bobby out… very few people agreed with me back then.)
But now that I’ve gotten to “know” Jimbo (via articles, interviews), I wouldn’t trade him for Richt – or just about anyone else. I think he can do it, and I want to let him have his shot.
There are a few guys for who I would trade him
and nice guy Mark Richt is not on that list.
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Mark Richt just said a prayer for your soul to be saved.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I agreed with you
The first day I head he had hired Fredo my first thought was it is time to get rid of Bowden, he has lost it.
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Ann say hello to the grand kids
LOL
You had me beat by a couple years. I didn’t know enough about Jeff to hate the move. I wasn’t convinced it was a good one, but I shrugged and said, “Well, I guess he’s coached some really good WRs for us… if he’s anything like his dad, we should be okay.”
I gave up on Jeffy once I realized that I could predict a fair number of our play calls. If I could do that, the people who got paid certainly could!
Jeffy took his dad’s interest in Sun Tzu a little too far. Sure, you should do the unexpected when you attack – but if you do that all the time, it’s no longer unexpected!
You could predict a fair number?
Hell, my little brother (who was just starting his interest in FSU football) was surprisingly adept at calling every single play.
By the end, it was just rigoddamndiculous.
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by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So Bud is getting blasted by these Georgia guys
Who are rah rah SEC because UGA doesn’t really matter nationally and are trying to discredit FSU’s schedule. Now I’m reading the AJC article talking about Tony Barnhart’s idea that when the pieces fall the SEC (specifically the SEC east) could add 4 ACC teams (FSU, GT, Clemson, Miami). Likelihoods aside, the comments follow a trend of “wow UGA would have hell in that division.” and then even the neutral guys chiming in are saying “no wai dood the SEC east would be 100x tougher than the west.”
Just enjoying the irony.
I want UGA to be good, I just don't want them to do it by taking back SoGa
Perhaps they should take Bama out from between their legs in Atlanta.
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Just kills me.
One guy over there said “the SEC east in that scenario would eat each other alive.” Welcome to our world guys — every year. At least Florida wouldn’t go unchallenged in the east so much? Even they’re admitting it.
The Bama fans all spell Atlanta with the Alabama "A"
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I think we all want the SEC east teams to be good in order to give UF the business while we improve
I’ve always thought fans from other programs read TN quite often, they just rarely comment. I had no clue that UGA was one of the fanbases. That banker dude was lying, he probably reads everyday. TN does not come up in the initial seaches when you look up Christian Lemay’s commitment
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Give em the business - Ron Cherry Style!
:)
Giving Him the Business youtube clip
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
LOL
That never gets old.
"Remember, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. Except for Herpes. That s#!t will come back with you."
by Jamil Dawson on May 3, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Realistically, how much longer does everyone give Richt as of this moment?
Even with LeMay committing, unless he and his new DC (name escapes me) get their defense turned around quickly, I can’t see him getting more than two more seasons after the debacle that was their 2009 campaign. He’s been there for ten years now and has, to me anyway, very little to show for it. Granted, UGA football was in a bad place when he got there and they’ve been solid. But when UGA fans look around and see NC’s going to ‘Bama, Florida, and LSU (though a few years removed), they’re eventually going to want a taste of that badly enough to take a risk and cast off a mildly successful coach for someone that may be able to take them to the promised land. If our fanbase can wake up after ten years, so can theirs.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
the east should be pretty poor this year
Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vandy are unlikely to make bowl games. UGA avoids LSU and Bama. They get Arkansas at home. UGA is primed for a “turnaround” year which hopefully keeps Richt there for a few more seasons.
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Hmm
I agree that UGA fans might get hungry, seeing SEC rivals win the NCs. But I fail to see how Richt is “mildly successful” given the context.
01: 8-4
02: 13-1
03: 11-3
04: 10-2
05: 10-3
06: 9-4
07: 11-2
08: 10-3
09: 8-5
Two SEC titles (first since 1982); six 10-win seasons (as many as UGA has had in the previous 20 years). He has trouble beating uf, and has had some other “high profile” losses – just like most other coaches (Bowden, Spurrier, Stoops, Tressell, etc.). Bowden won two NCs in 34 years. Spurrier won one (and until meyer, he was a god at one of the “elite” programs in the nation).
This run has been great by UGA standards of the last 30 years. Richt has won 6-7 (of 8) conference games 6 of his 9 years. He’s finished in the Top 10 five times. He’s 7-2 in bowl games. If the SEC weren’t winning titles left and right, would he really be on the hot seat for a 76.9 winning percentage?
Again, if coaches with good results (let’s not nitpick about process; even Jimbo acknowledges that “at the end of the process, the results got to be there”) are fired because they haven’t won a NC… well, FSU’s dynasty never happens under Bowden, who would have been ousted long before 1993.
It's losing at home to Kentucky and getting blown out by Tennessee and Florida that get him in trouble
and his recruiting in the state last year was awful. This year looks mildly better.
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Close wins and blowout losses signal a very overrated team.
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It's the way they lose that has some fans complaining-
not even competitive at times despite the talent, poor technique, lack of discipline, stupid penalties… Yep: He’s a Bowden protege’.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on May 1, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And how do you lose Rogers to Tennesee's new coach
After he had been commited for over a year?
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven't been a close follower
Of recruiting until the last couple years, but I know we’ve lost big recruits at the last minute.
Richt’s had some bad losses, yeah. So has Pete Carroll (Carroll was 97-19 in nine years at USC; Richt is 90-27 in nine years at UGA – less than 1 win difference per year).
I agree that UGA is vulnerable in some areas; uf is a particular Achilles heel (and was so long before Richt arrived). But overall, outside of a NC, what is he really lacking? (I remember a few bad Bowden losses; sure the So. Miss one looks better in retrospect – thanks, Brett Favre – but, really, So. Miss?
Everyone loses recruits at the last minute. But their class got stripped at the last minute this past cycle
Richt’s record is fine. Carroll won shares of two NC’s and played for another in those nine years. But really, Richt’s record is fine and better than his predecessors. However, the SEC has won 4 NC’s in row and that hasn’t included UGA. LSU has won two NC’s in the BCS era as has UF. Bama won one 2 years after barely breaking .500.They have to be burning at that fact. They have NC potential considering talent base and money. I want Richt to stay, he just hasn’t fully capitalized on the situation he has before him.
by westcoastnolefan on May 1, 2010 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
(I cheated and checked back after saying “G’night!”)
I do agree that the SEC’s titles must grate UGA fans, but another point about Richt’s results: if Bobby and Jeff had Richt’s records over the past nine years, they’d BOTH still be here.
And, although uf has “owned” Richt (2-7), he has actually 2 out of the 3 UGA wins since 1989.
Pretty much where I'm coming from.
And I can’t really think of any signature wins either…the previously mentioned UF game? ‘06 Peach Bowl over VT? The only two Sugar Bowl appearances I can recall are a blowout of an over-matched Hawaii team (no fault of UGA’s that Hawaii was put in front of them) and a loss to West Virginia when the Sugar was in Atlanta. There’s a lot of wins yes, but few when the lights were brightest. If my eyes weren’t hurting from the hour, I’d double-check their wins over the last ten to see if I’m forgetting any.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Me too
I’m EST. WAY past time for bed. G’night!
"signature wins"
Not sure what qualifies.
2004: 45-16 over LSU (who ended up 9-3)
2005: 34-14 over #3 LSU for the SEC championship. LSU finished 11-2, including a 40-3 bowl win over Miami – should get some applause here.
2006: 37-15 over #5 Auburn (who ended the year 11-2)
Just a few off the top of my head.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are very good wins
But with the idea of trends, what about the more recent years?
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Trends
Well, in 2007, there was enough success to finish the year #2. 2008 was a disappointment, for sure. 2009 was the worst. But as I wrote elsewhere, I’m not sure a few years is enough to define a trend.
Maybe it’s just that I’m old. Plus, I think most FSU fans have skewed views when it comes to what defines sustained success. Maybe your view is skewed, to. I don’t know. But it’s certainly understandable given what FSU did in the 1990s. You know who else did that? Nobody. Ever. It throws the entire standard out of whack. I don’t expect UGA to do that. I don’t expect FSU to do that again. If anyone does, I’ll be very surprised. Those kinds of runs are extraordinarily rare.
And even if I thought the last few years showed a trend that would continue, Richt has sufficient goodwill built up to protect him for another few years.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of the regulars here don't set their benchmark for success at "90's dynasty"
We realize that was enabled in large part because Alabama, Auburn, Miami, and UF all went on major probation while LSU and UGA screwed around. Nobody will ever have (or waste) a talent advantage of that magnitude again because the NCAA won’t ever dock 40 or 26 scholarships from teams again.
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"The only two Sugar Bowl appearances I can recall are [Hawaii and WVU]"
The third was a win, but I can understand its not being considered a signature win, even here.
by NCT on May 2, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Bud
With all the talk about finances before, (and this is a bit off base) do you think the main reason Bowden was told to leave was because Fisher was owed such a large chunk of cash or more so because people at FSU were actually unhappy with the mediocrity? This has probably been addressed already but I was just curious.
I think even with the losses we would've kept Bowden, if
all those “rumors” of coaches fighting with each other didn’t make national news.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Missed this question
No, it was not an issue of what we owed Fisher. It was an issue with big boosters finally being embarrassed enough in front of their friends by the team’s play and Bowden’s ridiculous behavior. “Troy” “Central Florida” “that’s like a woman”, etc.
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He quipped it at a female reporter. Very defensive and just looked like a guy on the way out.
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Here's the video link to the remark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoSLgltvqPM
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Hey, TN.com was able to get on AJC.com courtesy the junkyard Blog...
He didn’t exactly agree with the Nole’s position. lol
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Love getting linked there
Honestly, I haven’t seen a Dawg fan respond with something quality yet. They just take shots.
This is from Brad:
Dude you need to do some research before you start writing articles about UGA. Nothing in that article you wrote seems to have an ounce of truth in it, or you were misinformed badly. First off, Kirby Smart will never be back at UGA. I guess you missed the whole ordeal we had with him in the off-season, he is no longer welcome at UGA, and i am from South Georgia and know for fact that everyone here despises Kirby, so i don’t know where you got that information from. Second, you talk about what a great recruiter Smart is in S. GA yet he has not gotten one player from S GA since he has been at Bama, so apparently you haven’t researched that either. Also, the only kid we really wanted from Valdosta was Greg Reid, you guys got him, so congrats, but if you think getting a couple of recruits from Valdosta, who are at the bottom of our board, is goona bring FSU back then you are in for a disappointment. You’re also not going to get Nick Marshall who is going to play basketball at UGA, he is not playing football. You guys haven’t had a QB in 10 years, so i don’t think QBs are lining up to play for a team who wish they could win 8-9 games. Your article is filled with bad information that is absurd. Next time you try to take a shot at the Dawgs know what you are talking about. And if you think that Jimbo Fischer is about to bring FSU out of the lowly dumps of the ACC, you my friend, have lost the little knowledge you have about football. Stick to writing about the weak ACC and leave big boy football, the SEC, to the writers who actually know what they are talking about.
Deflect, deflect, deflect, poor spelling, cling to SEC for which Georgia provided no value. Repeat.
This one is unsigned
No offense, but your article spokes volumes – that you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, Kirby Smart is not the heir apparent to Richt – especially after spurning is alma mater when he’d already agreed to take the job. He’ll be lucky if he is ever allowed to work in Athens again. Secondly, how do you figure Kirby Smart is ready to be a head coach right now? Qualify that statment if you would because it’s not even a certainty that he runs the defense at Bama. I just find it funny that you’re trying pass off fiction to an audience that knows no better. Just goes to show that anyone can write an article in the day of the internet. Get it right next time.
Though I don’t remember Mark Richt having HC experience. And he was much better before he had a lot of HC experience.
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Awesome
Seriously, do you have a folder in your computer just for the hilarious hate mail? I would save it to look at years from now. It is incredible that they refuse to acknowledge their lack of success where it counts.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
No
I have 1100 unanswered e-mails and I delete probably 35 other e-mails per day.
Perhaps I will start saving these.
The main thing they all do is attack me instead of the argument.
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I wouldn't equate all Georgia fans with this guy
Many of them are coherent.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis
Ann say hello to the grand kids
I'm done with that guy
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You should invite these guys to discuss their opinions in an open forum.
Let them try to partake in a thoughtful discussion
by Caveman Mafia on May 1, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
We like facts here
In 1980, UGA went 12-0, won the NC; 1981, they were 10-2; 1982, 11-1; 83, 10-1-1.
From 1984-2000 (17 seasons): UGA was 126-70 (64.3%). No conference titles. Two 10-win seasons. Eight seasons of 7 or fewer wins. Three losing seasons, one at .500. They were 8-3-2 in bowl games (but they didn’t make a bowl 4 years).
In nine years, just over half that time, Richt is 90-27 (76.9%). Two conference titles. Six 10-win seasons (which are easier to get now, but the winning percentage still gives the edge to Richt). His two worst seasons were 8-4 (his first year) and 8-5 (this last year). Five Top 10 finishes. Bowl record: 7-2. Oh, and at least seven top 10 recruiting classes.
Outside of not winning a NC, his resume looks pretty dang good. Everything else is speculation – it’s no guarantee that anyone else would do better, given that the bar is set pretty high.
(I know, this post focuses on results not process. But whatever process he’s using seems to be working pretty well; he could, I’m sure, improve his process some, but so could everyone else; even Saban isn’t satisfied with the status quo and is always looking to improve. Again, who would they hire who would guarantee a step up?)
just to tag
in 1982 their 1 loss was in the NC game to PSU.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Outside of not winning a NC, his resume looks pretty dang good. Everything else is speculation – it’s no guarantee that anyone else would do better, given that the bar is set pretty high.
But that’s not taking trends into account. And UGA was trending down for the last two years. Pre-season #1 in 2008 loses 3 games. A very bad year last year with bad losses.
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Trigger happy?
In 1979 and 1980, FSU went 11-1 and 10-2. Then we dropped to 6-5 (1981); hit 9-3 again (1982), but then slid the next two years: 8-4 in 1983 (edging out East Caro 47-46, losing to Tulane, getting crushed by uf 53-14) and then 7-3-2 in 1984 (tying Memphis State, of all things). And our schedules were loaded with East Caros, Tulanes, Cincys, Temples, UT-Chats, etc.
Richt may not be the long-term guy who gets them over the top, but I just don’t think that he’s fallen enough that he merits getting fired right now. In fact, Richt has done better in his first 9 years at UGA than Bobby did in his first 9 here (BB won 71.8% of the games).
When you’ve mentioned elite programs (or those with elite potential), have I missed you listing UGA as an elite? Should they be a USC in the east? If not, how much better should they be?
I have UGA in the 2nd tier (1st tier is USC/ Texas/ UF)
UGA should be finishing 2nd in the East more than 80% of the time. And not a tie for second.
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Why should UGA beat UT 80% of the time?
I think that is a lot closer to 50/50. I’ve lived in Knoxville, and they support the Vols big time.
Because UGA has a much, much, much better talent base.
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And they are
Probably closer to GT and Clemson (even SC) than UT is to… anybody that matters. Doesn’t LSU have a better base because it it not shared than FSU does in a shared Florida?
Tennessee shares with Vanderbilt, does not really have Memphis, etc
UGA is more than 2x as good as Tennessee. Louisiana is considerably better than UGA as well.
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Err than Tennessee*
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Gotta disagree there. UT rarely shares with Vandy
Vandy’s kids are either from a 30 mile radius from Metro Nashville, or out of state. UT can also pull kids from Memphis in a heartbeat if they wanted.
"Bring back Fred Rouse--a true Nole"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 1, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
UT has been getting beat badly in Memphis over the last two years.
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UT is a lot closer to Atlanta than Memphis
Geographically speaking. Sure it’s the “state” school, but distance-wise it’s a hike over there.

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