State Of The Programs: FSU v. Miami

I think they will have a good class this year.

As far as why they took such a huge class of mediocre, I’m not exactly sure outside of Randy Shannon’s inability to construct and keep a coherent roster. Shannon is making a concerted effort to offer kids that he believes will stay in school, with some odd exceptions.

Unless UMs coaches are really just better evaluators and are smarter than, well everyone, I just don’t really get what they did last year.

there really isn’t a good reason from the outside looking in. Their staff had to be convinced that some of those kids, in the long run would be better than or easier to pull than the Fla kids they passed. The problem is that nobody else agrees with them. Some people also think RS is hung up on the tape measure.

I’m not trying to beat the process horse, but FSU goes about recruiting now in a manner that can lead to constant success. The staff constantly has recruiting meetings and is intent on evaluating and offering kids as fast as possible. UM on the other hand is often late to the table and quotes from coaches paint a picture of a lack of communication.

Also by legacies and huge Noles fans. I don’t know if we get Joyner, Jones and Green if they weren’t huge Noles to begin with. However, the hype will be this year. Shannon took over at the end of the 2007 recruiting class. Best class came in 2008. Fisher took over at the end of the 2010 class. Best class came in 2011. Recruiting usually sees its biggest bump the year after championships and head coaching changes.

Not so much that Bud was saying the ship is sinking, moreso my own thoughts. All it takes is one monster class to be “back” for a few years. I think the best thing for us is Miami to be run by guys that as Bud said, are unable to look at a roster and plan for the future.

Especially since the state of Florida will be loaded this year. I’ll keep a close eye on where SoFla kids like Gorman,Benjamin,Holliman, Ricardo Williams, Marcus Roberson, and Perryman decide to attend college(Grooms is all SEC it looks like). Miami already got beat by OSU for Jeremy Cash and Shazier will be a FSU/UF battle to the end.

I don’t put that down as a money woe or problem sign. They played each other 18 times in a 19 year span and have more than one classic game in their history. That is just a major highlight of the year kind of OOC matchup that they had a chance to make. Completely different than their home and home with Memphis.

Shannon shows a propensity for not cutting poor performers

I don’t think there is anything wrong with his defensive Xs and Os, and he doesn’t really handle the offense.

I too question his ability as a manager of a program.

Yeah I lol’d

I was not aware of this. Too bad his new deal is only for 4 years, should be 10 + years.

With only Orlando Franklin set to graduate after this season

Wrong. Figeroa is also graduating. I agree Miami did a good job recruiting the OLine and I credited them for it.

With Miami’s DL being as deep as it is, we only offered a few DTs and DEs… Even though people think that freshmen hop on the field and make an impact, NONE of these kids will see the field this year…

No, I said the frosh do not make an impact. This article is about the future of the program.

By the way, David Perry was a HIGHLY sought after prospect (a 4 star on Rivals and 3 star on Scout)…

Not pursued by UF or FSU. Offers were not commitable.

I’m impressed that someone has done research and mentioned Jeff Brown vs. Kinchens… You can’t knock Jeff Brown because all you have seen from him were his highlights just like with every other kid… The supposed best DT in the country was Shariff Floyd from Philly and that Dominique Easley kid was from NY… Just because Kinchens is from So. Fla doesn’t make him better than Jeff Brown…

We signed 5 LBs and most of these kids had offers to go anywhere in the country also, with Kelvin Cain being the exeption… However, you compare Kelvin with no film to Jeff Luc… We didn’t want Jeff Luc, he was evaluated and deemed to be stiff and non-coachable… Kelvin Cain on the other hand returned kickoffs and played basketball in highschool… I actually think he’ll be a DE because hes 6’5 and over 200 pounds but whatever…

The idea that you didn’t want Luc is laughable. Your coaches got bitched. They backed off because they realized they couldn’t recruit against the big boys. FSU took 5 backers and Miami took 5. The gap between the quality is enormous. I agree everyone likes Williams, but the rest of the 4 you took are lower quality than what your competition is pulling.

Every DB we signed was a playmaker in highschool with offers from Big 12 and SEC schools… One name that I’ll mention is Jeremy Davis… He is listed as a WR on Rivals but he is going to play DB… This kid could have EASILY been a 5 star… He is almost 6 feet and ran a 10.41 in the 100 as highschool junior… As a senior, he was the best player on the Cape Coral team that included two D1 signees, one to Florida and the other to Notre Dame… Latwan is listed as not signed because he didn’t sign a LOI to play football for UM but he’ll be at Miami, don’t you worry, lol!! There was never any question about this, he always signed as a track athlete and even came on a visit through the track team… As I mention Latwan Anderson, I still say JEREMY DAVIS!!

Latwan is a thug who can’t read and will be booted or in prison before you know it.

Davis is nowhere close to a 5-star. I am from that area and have many contacts with coaches in the area. Your argument was alright until you suggested that. He’s a properly rated 3-star.

beyond that though, two highly rated RBs, a FB, 4 TEs including 15th best TE in the nation per Scout and a Juco kid, Miami Carol City WR, a good backup QB (that might wind up starting when Jacory leaves even if Bridgewater signs)…nothing major, lol!! We will never again have to FOCUS a recruiting class on anything but skills positions…

Translation: the majority of our class is trash. We have limited ships this year and can’t get anyone to commit.

If anything, that should worry Seminole fans… A three star recruit with two years to develop is better than a five star that comes in under developed and plays right away… Take Marcus Forston for example, he was a freshman All American but played two games as a sophmore…
5-stars are always better to take than 3-stars. 1 12 5-stars is an all-america. One in 250 3-stars is. Your Fortson example is stupid because he was injured and further, your sample set is 1. Look at all the 5-stars then conclude.

Now you don’t hear Randy talking about building depth and guys maturing… You hear Randy saying, we’ll have 15 OL in camp, 15 DL, 12 LBs, 12 DBs, 12 RBs, 6 TEs, 4QBs, 8 WRs… Our numbers are over but the coaches will handle it accordingly!!

You’re going to be quite good in 2011 and 2012, but if you recruit this year like you did in the most recent class, your team turns into vanderbilt.

So much misinformation and bad analysis.

I do respect that you are trying to defend the class and doing it in a coherent way, however many Miami fans that I know understand that this class was a mistake. Offering lower rated players from other states over in state kids and taking too many players is a mistake. Your coaches have to fix that this year with a great class.

Your LBs had offers from everywhere? Try again. FSU took the two best LBs in the state of FL, and the fact that your coaches didn’t want a stud like Luc because of his coachability makes me laugh.

Jeremy Davis is not a 5 star and nobody thinks he is.

I tried to be somewhat nice and mention Brown as opposed to freaking Delmar Taylor! That would have been too easy. How many games did he manage to play in HS? Eight? nine? Allen Hurns probably only commited due to the fact he’s a Carol City alum. And a lot of Canes regretted the Kelvin Cain signing from NSD on. In fact, before NSD a few of them were hoping his offer got pulled like Buxton’s.DL depth the reason you didn’t recruit any many? UF has mucho DL depth but KEEPS recruiting them. Injuries, academic attrition, GARY BROWN! Ish happens patna.

And you mean to tell me Storm Johnson and Eduardo Clements’ star ratings did not have an effect on UM’s thoughts of them as recruits. Latwan Anderson’s certainly did. I will not criticize RS for taking him because #1 He was low hanging fruit (Like Jeffrey Brown or Gaines.The kid you won the recruiting war with Buffalo over) and #2 We ourselves recruited Demar Dorsey. But the talent base at UM is being restocked with mucho scrubs.

Jeff Luc was rated the #1 ILB by ESPN and Rivals if I remember correctly. To say that UM did not want him is ridiculous.

Chandler was not offered by UF or FSU either.

The point is that your evaluations this time, if you seriously think that’s what happened (that you didn’t like them as opposed to just getting beat for the kids), are a joke.

da norm.

Most of us have grad degrees. I got a full ride to UM.

First, Miami’s relationship with Miami NW HS is in no trouble. NW Head Coach Billy Rolle said so publicly, in the Miami Herald. It’s in the archives, look it up. Also, Todd Chandler did not fulfill his obligations to secure his offer.

Fair enough. Though I doubt he’d say something different in the papers. Still, we agree that Chandler had some issues and that’s why FSU decided not to give a committable offer.

Secondly, Miami brought in the nations #16 recruiting class, according to rivals. Hardly on the level of Vanderbilt, except that our athletes can read and write, add and subtract, unlike some Seminoles I know.

That #16 ranking includes 29 players. Your average player was much, much lower (outside the top 30, and that includes Anderson who is running track for now). Randy took a bunch of kids to pump up the rating in order to secure his contract. That was a move contrary to the interests of the program.

Thirdly, Miami recruited the #3 ILB Kevin Nelson, Under Armour All-American center Shane McDermott, Army All-Americans Latwan Anderson (#1 player in Ohio), and tackle Brandon Linder, from St. Thomas Aquinas

I see you’re switching from Rivals to ESPN there. Sneaky.

McDermott did play in the UA game, but he was not in the 150 and ESPN didn’t even rate him as a 4-star. Why? He was local and could get to the game and they needed bodies. Don’t pretend that McDermott is a stud or that he was heavily recruited. The 98th rated player in the state.

Nelson is a decent linebacker. Wonder why he wasn’t in the ESPNU 150? #3 ILB, you say? According to Rivals he is the 14th best and not a top-75 player in Florida.

I gave credit in the article for Miami bringing in some quality offensive linemen, of which Linder is the best. FSU recruited Linder. McDermott and Nelson are not FSU quality players.

UM brought in six 4* recruits, and 18 3* star recruits, according to rivals. To call this class a bunch of scrubs shows lack of football knowledge and pure disrespect to what it takes to be recruited by major schools. Have any of you bozos ever played football? And if you have, did you play? Just because you lead FSU to undefeated seasons in NCAA doesn’t make you qualified to evaluate UM’s recruiting class.

I don’t give a damn if the players think I am disrespecting them. I’m evaluating the rosters of both programs. This irrelevant attack doesn’t deserve any more of my attention.

Does the FACT that FSU brought in 14 3* star prospects mean that YOUR recruiting class was crap? Think about this: (I know that’s hard for ‘Noles). Ed Reed was a 2 *star. So, with this reasoning, means that he would ride the bench his whole career and be a scrub. It didn’t turn out that way.

I already addressed this tired argument that Ed Reed was a 2-star. It’s in the story, which you apparently neglected to read. But Alonzo Highsmith was recruited by Notre Dame, Michigan, and every other program in the country. Kellen Winslow, Antrelle Rolle, Sean Taylor, and Vince Wilfork were all five-star recruits.

Recruiting Rankings are very accurate. Please read these three pieces, in order.

http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/1/21/1614/43228
http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/2/5/182213/3837
http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/3/17/71811/4082

Miami recruited athletes. Many run track, a couple throw discus, one wrestles (and won the state championship at the highest level) , and a few played basketball. We got a TE who weighs 250 LBS. who runs HURDLES. 100 M at less than 12.00. That’s remarkable. Anderson ran a 10.5 100 M. That’s fantastic speed. It wasn’t a sexy class, because UM recruited needs. That’s how you build your program and replenish talent.

Did Miami need players who are a lot less talented than the players recruited by its rivals?

I guess all you guys know better than a football guy from Dade County who’s played or coached for the last 30 YEARS!

The armchair quarterbacks here entertain me. You can’t even talk intelligently about your own team, and you want your readers to believe this drivel about UM? It’s comical.

We talk quite intelligently about FSU and routinely say that this is an 8-4 team.

Take off the garnet and gold glasses and take a hard look at your team. 108th ranked defense? Returning six starters and learning a new scheme? Zone, at that. It’s gonna take awhile to nail that scheme down, especially since FSU can’t cover their own shadow.

Did this piece have anything to do with that? I assume you don’t read regularly. Otherwise you would know that we have routinely cautioned FSU fans to temper expectations this year and PREDICTED Miami to beat FSU this season.

This so-called-journalism is a joke. I had respect for this blog until this was written. if you’re gonna write something like this, back it up with informed opinions and analysis.

I did back it up. You’re just trying to play spin doctor.

I run one of the most successful sports sites on the internet. I think my success speaks for itself. We don’t pull punches here.

Did I not give Miami credit for out-recruiting FSU in 2007, 2008, and 2009? How is that wearing the G&G Glasses?

The dumb noles stuff is really not needed, however I understand that you feel attacked, probably because you didn’t read the storyyou just ran over to the comments to defend Randy. Many of us hold multiple degrees, and most UM fans never spent a dollar at UM.

I know what the NW coach said to the media. However I don’t choose to believe everything said to a reporter. There are still rumors about it out there. I know what happened to Chandler, I happened to be at the Under Armour game and practices when he was opening everything up.

You choose to point out that FSU took double digit 3*, but don’t address the fact we took 2 5* and had a much higher per recruit average. Also, you attack the stories validity for having garnet and gold glasses when it blatantly says UM out recruited FSU for 3 straight years. You took 29 players and the average of those players was 35th. That is not how you build a roster. There were some nice players in there, but you have to maximize all 85 spots.

Latwan Anderson (#1 player in Ohio)

No.

What a crop of @#$!*ds.

See how fun generalizations are. Seriously, you wish you could do half the analysis that is done here. Keep the “punches” above the belt champ.

it matters what is. Right now, Miami has the better roster of field-ready talent. FSU has more overall talent and will need a year to develop that talent. Miami is in trouble if all these kids qualify. Miami did not land a top-25 player from SoFla and its average recruit this time was on par with those signed by Minnesota, Oregon State, and Baylor.

Just the facts.

Also,

They both need to prove that they can again win their conferences and be relevant again nationally on the field

I don’t wan to be a dick, but isn’t this obvious?

you fail to see what was written in this article. Maybe you can read, that doesnt mean you have any reading comprehension skills. I know plenty of morons that go to UM, and many more that wish they did. Wearing that color scheme doesnt mean anything except the ability to overpay for an education.

Ridiculous, simply ridiculous comebacks littered with insults, and I say that with all due respect.

I did not have to research what you said. I do my own research and have just as many Miami-area contacts as you.

I tore your response apart point-by-point.

UM has tons of RBs.

And which seniors are unlikely to start. The obvious candidate would be Cooper unless you think he can be 100%, but that’s not likely and there is a ton of talent behind him.

Colloquialism?

You have to actually be on the team to do that. While he is running track he is not allowed to practice or take part of any football team specific activities. He is Persona Non Grata as far as football goes for the entire year, right down to football team workouts.

How does players transferring help if they are replaced by less skilled players with lower ceilings? And since CRS has come out and said the Canes are only going to sign around 15 kids it doesn’t sound like many kids will be leaving the team.

having a senior doesnt mean anything if he cant get on the field.

McCartney

Kitchens

Lemonier (Since his recruitment was SOOO “dirty” and gives Canes Patrick Peterson flashbacks)

Joyner (Low hanging fruit, I know)

The Central trio and the MNW kids that went to Louisville

And would you like to share any opinions where UM stands (Or stood) recruitment wise on

Randall Cash,Shazier, Holiman, Grooms (ewww), Roberson, Perryman, Ricardo Williams and Sumler. I know thats a lot of kids. But schools are poaching SoFla and are getting kids I know damn well wouldn’t have escaped Coral Gables 5-10 years ago. But since you are here, I would like to hear UM supporters vantage point. Since so many people have been critical of Shannon’s recruiting practices (Rightfully so IMO because he doesn’t want to put in big boy work. It seem he’d rather be Mack Brown without the power. And try to be honest. Minimal spin please, seriously!

You get 4 to play 5. He just can’t redshirt and the staff has to hope he is self motivated enough to get into football shape on his own and not track shape.

I write for Phil as well, though have not in a while because he doesn’t pay much.

UM did bring in the #1 class in 2008. So, to come down on RS’s recruiting practices is premature. He’s increased the win total every year, and has flipped the talent in three years. How can you criticize that? And his #1 class is now mostly JR’s. I just don’t see where the criticism fits.

We’re saying he improved the program because of his recruiting and that the group he just brought in is awful. It’s completely dissimilar from the 07-09 classes that brought Miami to where it is today.

I’m certainly not implying birthright to any MNW kids Randy. I just got sick and tired of folks making excuses and claiming Lamb,Harris,Chandler, and the Central kids were not of UM caliber. Yet you mean to tell me Gaines and Asante Cleveland are? (I’ve always found that to be curious at the least, disingenious or outright lying at the worst). But Miami doesn’t have a birthright to them huh, but yet they aren’t UM caliber, which is it? Cleveland? Cal, Stanford, or Fresno State didn’t bother to even extend offers to him and he’s a NorCal kid. And what would Miami’s 2008 class have looked like without MNW and BTW being loaded?

Not going to camps can make you somewhat underrated. Doesn’t excuse Miami’s bomb of a class.

Tomahawk Nation, where our writers will piss off ANY fanbase! Rivals or otherwise.

The best part was when Randy kept throwing out insults, and then would say that we should be done with insults and get down to football.

-

This class for Miam (2011) is obviously extremely important. I do think that if they put together a good one they will be fine in terms of talent though. Their 08 and 09 classes were too good.

OMFG……Way too funny

about the drive by posters from other fan bases. They show up when an article is posted they don’t agree with, post their complaints but have nothing to back it up with. The only thing dumber than thinking Richt leaving was the reason FSU fell off is thinking every 3 star you sign is going to turn into Ed Reed. It starts off fun going back and forth, but after you see that they aren’t listening, trying to learn or presenting any evidence to support their claims it just becomes tedious.

I’ve got another few hrs to kill watching Cane fans self destruct lol.

Maybe I am not understanding your point.

that this years Miami class is very important. If it is like last years than they are in trouble.

But they need a strong 2011 class.

They can’t go 2 years of poor classes in a row, like we did a few years back.

In 2010, Miami’s average recruit in 2010 was rated a 3.07. That’s on par with schools like Minnesota, Oregon State, and Baylor. Florida State’s recruits were comparable to those of Oklahoma, Penn State, Auburn, and Georgia.

I’ve already said Miami out-recruited FSU from 2007-2009. Nobody will dispute that (I hope), and they developed their players better (because they developed O & D).

Once the players have taken the field, these recruiting lists and rankings are meaningless. For now, the ‘10 list is legit, but it’s all subject to change. Ours may end up better (I doubt it), or yours may end being light years better.

About 17 stars over a 3-year period.

I covered this in part 2, but some of this is also based on Shannon laying a massive egg in SoFla (landing only 1 out of every 8 4-star players in SoFla).