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TN Members Self Report Card for FSU's 2009 Defensive Line's Progression, Stagnation, or Regression?

Since we are now in a relatively quiet dead football period, and not wanting to detract from any of the meaningful stories on this site, I thought it might be a good time to revisit and analyze our Tomahawk Nation members projections for the 2009 football team, just for fun.

Last summer I wrote a series of stories wondering if our 2009 football teams 7 individual units (defensive line, linebackers, secondary, backfield, offensive line, receivers and tight ends, and special teams) were going to be better, the same, or worse, as compared to the same unit from 2008, and I polled our members on their expectations for the 2009 season.

Since our membership here at TN has exploded over the past year, many of you will be seeing this for the first time. I ask that our newer members who did not have the opportunity to participate and vote last summer be patient, but to please feel free to comment, or ridicule those of us (myself included) who had some unrealistic projections. However, I would like to warn that I plan on doing a similar series later this summer, again using the 7 units, and your projections for 2010 may come back to haunt you sometime next spring, so you may want to consider treading lightly.  

My hope in revisiting this series is not to turn this into a coaches hate-fest, although that topic can not be off-limits due to the nature of the series.  I do think most of us are ready to move forward and stop rehashing our previous coaching regime's shortcomings, but I would like to focus on the individual units themselves and decided how far off, or in some situations, how well these units performed compared to the same unit from 2008.

I intend to keep my comparisons very basic, but I do welcome those of you with more statistical experience, with greater understanding of the advanced metrics often used on this site, and with more time, to please share your opinions with those of us not as knowledgeable in those area's.

Today we will look back and share a good laugh at what a bunch of optimistic, Kool-Aid guzzling, Garnet and Gold glasses wearing group of Seminoles we had gathered here at TN last summer, by looking back at Progression, Stagnation, or Regression? Noles Defensive Line.

You may first want to look back at Closing The Book On The 2009 Florida State Defense where Bud breaks down the performance of the entire defensive unit as a whole. However for these posts, we will review each unit individually, and not nearly in as much detail as you have grown accustomed to expect from TN.  As I previously stated, this post is just for fun and to give us something to discuss during this slow news period, that is if you are interested in doing so.

2008 DE=Benjamin Lampkin (really a LB) started the first 3 games, then was replaced by Neffy Moffett who started the rest of the season. In 10 games played, Moffett had 19 Total Tackles of which 11 were for loss, 5.5 sacks, 1 int, 2 QBH, and forced two fumbles and recovered one. Both players are now gone.

2009 PROJECTED DE=Kevin McNeil and Jamar Jackson


2008 NG=Moses McCray started the first 2 games then was replaced by Budd Thacker who started every remaining game until the Champs Bowl when Paul Griffin started his last game as a Nole.  Griffin is the only one gone and only had 11 Total Tackles, 1 for loss, 1 QBH, and 1 FR.

2009 PROJECTED NG=Moses McCray and Budd Thacker


2008 DT=Kendrick Stewart started 8 games and Justin Mincey started 4 games, 3 of which were the last 3 games.

2009 PROJECTED DT=Justin Mincey and Kendrick Stewart


2008 DE=Everette Brownhas left and taken his 36 total tackles of which 21.5 were for losses, 13.5 sacks, 2 pass BU, 3 QBH, 4 FF, and 1 FR.

2009 PROJECTED DE=Markus White and Toshmon Stevens.

 

OTHERS EXPECTED TO CONTRIBUTE: Everett Dawkins (SDE), Brandon Jenkins(WDE), Jacobbi McDaniel (DT), Demonte McAllister (DT/SDE)


What really wound up happening at;

2009 LDECraig Yarborough started the first 3 games and the bowl game versus WVU, and Kevin McNeil  started the 9 games in between.

2009 RDE:  One of the few positions with any stability as Markus White started every game except the Georgia Tech game where our coaches tried stopping the GT option with 2 DT's (McCray and Thacker) and Dawkins at NT.

2009 Interior Line: I decided to group our NT's and DT's together because of the constant shuffling of players due to injuries at times, and at other times due to what seemed like no clear rhyme or reason. 

Excluding the GT game referenced above, the DT tackle position saw McCray starting 6 games, Dawkins starting 6 games, and Thacker starting one game against BC. 

The NT position saw Kendrick Stewart start the first 5 games, followed by Dawkins starting the next 2, then McCray, then Dawkins, and finally McCray started the final 4 games.

  |---------Tackles---------| |---Sacks---| |---Pass Def---| |-Fumbles-| Blkd
DEFENSIVE LEADERS GP UT AT Total ForLoss No - Yards Int-Yds BrUp QBH Rcv-Yds FF Kick Saf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Markus White 13 21 17 38 10.5- 27.0 2.0- 10.0 1- 31 . 2 . 1 . .
Jacobbi McDaniel 13 13 12 25 4.0- 16.0 1.0- 10.0 . . . . 2 . .
Kevin McNeil 12 14 5 19 5.5- 26.0 2.0- 18.0 . 1 3 3- 33 . 2 .
Budd Thacker 10 12 4 16 . . . . . . 1 . .
Everette Dawkins 13 9 5 14 3.5- 15.0 1.0- 9.0 . . . . . . .
Kendrick Stewart 12 6 6 12 . . . . 1 . . . .
Moses McCray 12 5 7 12 1.0- 1.0 . . . . 1- 0 . . .
Craig Yarborough 13 3 1 4 . . . . 1 . . . .

Here is how you, the Tomahawk Nation members, voted?

2009 FSU DEFENSIVE LINE-PROGRESSION, STAGNATION, OR REGRESSION? PLEASE VOTE

50% OF YOU VOTED FOR PROGRESSION

32% OF YOU VOTED FOR STAGNATION

16% OF YOU VOTED FOR REGRESSION

I have to give myself a D for thinking White could adequately replace Everette Brown, for not realizing how very thin we were across the line and how unforeseen injuries could and did devastate our defensive line, and for thinking that Jacobbi would be able to play a bigger role as a freshman,  even though Jacobbi's playing improved as the season progressed and gives me hope for the interior of the line.

How would you rate your projections and expectations for the 2009 Defensive Line from last preseason?

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who is Benjamin Lampkin?

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on May 2, 2010 7:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Lampkin was a 6'0" 225 player from Rutherford HS in Panama City

He started the first 3 games at DE in place of Moffet (not sure if suspended for academic fraud) and finished with 8 TT and 1 FF

2008

· The back-up to Myron Rolle at the rover position in 2008.
· Played in 49 career games.
· Earned a single-season career-high 12 tackles.
· Tied his career-high with three total tackles against both Western Carolina and Florida.
· Earned his undergraduate degree in finance in December of 2008.
Junior Year (2007): One of the Seminoles’ top special teams’ players who played in 12 of Florida State’s 13 games…recorded a single-season career-high seven tackles…has now played in 23 games during his career with playing time coming in 23 of the last 26 games in the last two seasons…a top gunner on the Seminoles’ kickoff team and a top blocker on the Seminoles’ punt teams…recorded a career-high two tackles against Virginia Tech and single tackles against Colorado, NC State, Wake Forest, Miami and Maryland…moved to the defensive line to add depth versus Kentucky in the Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl.

Sophomore Year (2006): Played in 11 of Florida State’s 13 games including the Seminoles’ Emerald Bowl victory over UCLA… earned playing time at the linebacker position and on special teams… recorded three tackles on the season with stops coming against Duke, Virginia and Florida…played in the Seminoles’ season-opening victory over Miami and earned playing time in the final 10 games of the season.

Freshman Year (2005): A member of the team but did not play in any games.

2004: A redshirt season.

High School: Graduated from Rutherford High School in 2004…earned four varsity letters as a member of the football

team…named to the all-county first team as a junior and a senior…led the team in tackles in both his junior and senior seasons…also earned four varsity letters as a member of the track and field team as a sprinter (200 and 400 meters), four letters as a member of the weightlifting team and two as a member of the basketball team.

Personal: Born Sept. 27, 1985… major is international affairs…named to the 2005 ACC Academic Honor Roll.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

In all fairness, on the roster he was listed as a LB, albeit a LB with rover/safety size.

I am starting to think that the size of football players might matter and could have a bearing on how a team performs. Someone should look into this deeper.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously guys...

When a guy is lighter, it means that he is faster, and that’s exactly what you want.

For example, a guy who is 225 is probably pretty fast. When the ball is snapped, that guy can run really really fast upfield. In turn, FSU will have the “fastest defense ever” in 2009.

How in the world could this be confusing.

"I'm just a big, hairy, American winning machine"

by Randall W. Spetman on May 3, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

With all the reported weight gain recently, I expect we will go from fastest to slowest in 2010.

Big fat guys run slow, just ask the HS cheerleaders that keep running away from and I can never catch.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 4, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

More than you could have possibly wanted to know.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I was curious what his major is, so thanks.

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on May 3, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Had to research

I said this:

I’m really torn on this one
Ended up going with stagnation.
A) Same coaching, mostly the same players, same scheme = stagnation
2) Added beef in the middle, young talent behind them to compete, and hopefully a ball control offense to keep them fresher = progression
D) Pounding schedule from game 1, inexperience and lack of true depth, and probable lack of favoring field position due to special teams deficiencies = regression

Well, nobody could see the Yarborough thing coming. I probably placed too much faith in White to step in for Brown. I’ll go with a grade of 73. Right between a C and a C- for not drinking the Kool-aid too much.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on May 2, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha.
Well, nobody could see the Yarborough thing coming.

No one except the wise TN member Yarborough4Heisman who must have had inside info. BTW, he seems to be MIA.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha! I miss that guy

he was awesome. Maybe I’ll create a “GehresforHeisman” alter ego

"I'm just a big, hairy, American winning machine"

by Randall W. Spetman on May 3, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

alter ego to an alter ego???

my head hurts

>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on May 4, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

CRUD, I didn't say anything for that post.

Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham

by FSUvaFan on May 2, 2010 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

You coulda been a viewed as a genius. Oh well.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know I said it somewhere that the defense was going to stink.

Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham

by FSUvaFan on May 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here are mine...

“The middle is much better than last year…. so I think it is much better at DT and much worse at DE.

So I will say the same or slightly better because like Tomahawk Nation, I think DT is most important.

Side note: My reason for thinking DT is better is simple. We have 4 vets returning at DT (McCray, Thacker, Stewart, and Mincey). Two of those are MUCH bigger (Stewart and Mincey). Thacker should be healthier. Then ON TOP of that, you have a solid player in Everetter Dawkins AND two very good true freshman (McAllister and McDaniel). I think some move over occasionally to help out at DE (where we are WAYYYYYYY too small….thanks Allen), but that puts FSU 3 deep at DT. That alone is HUGE for improvement."

“I get it…..I didn’t say the DT would be great….or even good…. I said they would be much better than last year. HUGE difference.”

My grade for myself….D. Close to right at DE, but DT got almost nothing for a few of the guys I thought would be better.

by noles55 on May 3, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

To quote the Who,"We won't get fooled again."

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 3, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel good about my predicition
I just don’t see our D line being as good or better than last season. EB gave us a massive lift last year and made the O-line game plan around him. Just don’t see a lineman doing the same this year. I’m counting on our LBs to make up the difference in talent.

I just didn’t have a lot of faith in the D-line going into the year. What I didn’t see coming at all was the horrible tackling by the back 7. If we were just a decent tackling team last year the defense would have been much better.

by osceolafan850 on May 3, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Woah Woah Woah

We weren’t good at tackling?

"I'm just a big, hairy, American winning machine"

by Randall W. Spetman on May 3, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does koolaid count as a grade?

Because thats mine

CP7: Sliding is teh weak sauce

by stevegrizzle on May 4, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Mine...
How much meaningful action do you expect he will get this year? Do you think he will be 2 deep by the end of the year?

DT is a pretty tough transition from HS, but I think he does have tremendous upside.

>——-:——:———>Spear ’em then Scalp ’em

by FrankDNole on Jul 30, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t expect much. — Bud

I don’t remember what I voted. I expected them to play better, but I also expected better health from KStew, Thacker, McCray, and McDaniel. And I expected Minecy to get an off-season which didn’t happen.

by Bud Elliott on May 4, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

In retrospect, I believe Jacobbi performed better than he should have as a freshman right out of HS, as the season wore on.

Barring injury, I expect his improvement this year to be exponentially better due to all the positive changes.

I agree the injuries to Stewart, McCray, and Thacker hurt our depth, but I am not so sure it would have made much difference in our performance.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999

by FrankDNole on May 5, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wouldn't have made a massive impact, IMO

But the cumulative health of high-effort, low mass guys makes a big difference, IMO

We didn’t have two wharthogs who were gonna combine for 100 snaps per

by Bud Elliott on May 6, 2010 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

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