Breaking Down The 2010 Phil Steele All-ACC Team: Defense
Yesterday I discussed the offense and today I'll discuss the defensive players on the 2010 The Phil Steele All-ACC Team.
It's difficult for any national writer to come up with 4-deep conference teams. I give writers a lot of leeway if they are willing to go beyond the customary first team that most national magazines do. I only ask that their methods remain consistent throughout. If they want to pick the guys who will have the most production, that's fine. It's also fine to pick the best players, regardless of numerical production. I don't, however, like when they mix the two. Stay consistent throughout, please. Let's get to it...
Now onto the defensive side. I have a bone to pick here as well. Steele ranks 2 DE, 2 DT, 4 LB, 2 CB, and 2 safeties. That doesn't seem like the best way to do it. A typical defense plays 2 ends, 2 tackles, 3 linebackers, and 4 DBs. A 3-4 defense plays 3 linemen and 4 backers, but there's only one 3-4 defense in the ACC (Georgia Tech). So why rank 4 linebackers? If anything, with teams playing more receivers than ever before, it would make sense to rank 5 defensive backs. Or since teams rotate defensive linemen to keep them fresh, perhaps ranking 5 defensive linemen would be more appropriate. Either would be better than 4 backers. Ranking 4 linebackers per All-ACC team (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th team) means that 16 of the conference's 37 starting linebackers receive some sort of recognition. That hardly seems appropriate. Steele recognizes 34% of the conference's starting defensive linemen, and 34% of the starting defensive backs, but 43% of the linebackers. Steele has put over 3/4 of returning starters at the linebacker position on one of the 4 all-conference teams. With that said, let's get to the breakdown.
Defensive End
This one is difficult to mess up. Bailey and Quinn are the conference's top defensive players and are considered top-10 NFL choices. Then, however, he messes up. Matt Conrath is a defensive tackle and Steele notes that. He was a defensive end last year, but he's a tackle now. Why then, is he taking up a spot at end? This just seems like common sense. I don't have any issue with the rest of the selections at end. Any of them could reasonably be projected to out-perform any of the others.
Defensive Tackle
I can't disagree with this list too much. Austin is by far the best in the conference and is the top rated DT in the coming draft. But if (according to Steele), Conrath is good enough to be the 3rd DE behind two likely All-Americans (above), and he's moving inside, shouldn't he be listed at the appropriate position? Seems to me Conrath should be 1st team with Austin, instead of Clemson's Jarvis Jenkins. I do think Steele goes overboard with Florida State's McDaniel and especially Miami's Marcus Forston. Both are former 5-star players who as of yet have done nothing to warrant all-conference consideration. Forston in particular didn't play but a few snaps last year (injury/ effort) and isn't even projected to start this year, as Micanor Regis and Curtis Porter are listed over him. McDaniel had a promising first year, but Forston has had two years in the system and isn't starting. Perhaps it is time to look past his recruiting ranking. 4th teamer Brandon Thompson is a good player who I would have on the 2nd team.
Linebacker
There's a group of three backers in the ACC who are above the rest in my mind. Kuechly, Carter, and Wujciak are excellent. Sturdivant, to me, is not in that group. The second team is a mess. It would take a tremendous leap of faith to think that FSU's Kendal Smith will be one of the best 8 backers in the conference. Mark Herzlich is coming off missing a year due to cancer. He's going to be one of the best? Maybe Phil knows something that I do not. McCarthy and Greer are good choices. I don't have any issued with his third or fourth team selections. Again, it's tough to do a 4-deep.
Cornerback & Safety
I think Steele nailed this one. Not only did he probably get the best cornerbacks, but I think they are in the correct order. There are a few quibbles with the 3rd or 4th team safeties, but not many. I'm impressed.
After seeing all the teams, what are your thoughts? FSU has fewer players on the lists than BC or Clemson. Does that make you think about choosing FSU for the division? Why?
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4 LB's,
not DL’s. You put the wrong position in the opening paragraph of the breakdown.
Thanks, fixed.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job, no disrespect intended.
Nice to see the second half of Steele’s list tackled. Here’s my take.
DE/DT – First off it is common knowledge that UNC’s line will be outstanding this year. Quinn probably will be the first player from the ACC drafted. Miami also is well represented on the defensive line along with Clemson. Most of these picks are right on except I might have included Jamie Cumbie from Clemson instead of Marcus Fortson. Fortson is terrible and Cumbie is under rated. I agree with you Bud that Brandon Thompson should also be moved up. Kid is a future star. Kind of scary that we will face all 3 of those lines this year.
LB – Most of his linebacker picks are pretty good, but putting Mark Herzlich on the second team makes no sense. Listen you can’t question his courage, but he hasn’t played football in a year. He is a wait and see type player in my mind. I also would switch Kendall Smith for Nigel Bradham. No way Smith is better than Bradham.
CB – Excellent selections here and Ras-I Dowling is the cream of the crop and could be the first cb taken in the draft. Kind of scary to see all more UNC names after their dominant picks on the defensive line. Man that defense is going to be sick. I also would put a darkhorse candidate on this list. He might not have made it to FSU’s campus yet, but Mike Harris is my darkhorse pick at CB.
K/P – I think Dustin Hopkins got the shaft. He should be included on Steele’s list and is one of the best kicker in the ACC in my opinion.
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
Fast fact on Hopkins
He had 24 touchbacks last year, good for 4th place. 7 of those came up in BYU. So takeaway, say, 6 of those, and he’s sitting on 18. 18 touchbacks is good for 9th place, still. The kid has some kind of leg.
You mentioned this yesterday and again today, that it is time to look past recruiting rankings.
All of these national prognosticators are giving too much weight to HS stars and not enough to what they have done on the field since enrolled. But what can we expect from these national guys since they don’t have the time to scout every team in every conference. Let see what our so-called ACC “experts” come up with later in the summer. Kudos at least to Steele for attempting to go 4 deep.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job, no disrespect intended.
It's because writers take the mentality of
most informed college football fans….stars do matter. What you do with those stars when in college is another matter. I also wrote this yesterday “not a fan of pre-season polls and team selections because as we all know a lot can change between now and then. Also as the season progresses players stock go up and down and a lot of the questions we have in the pre-season are answered once kickoffs begin.” Don’t give me All-ACC lists until game 3 of the season.
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
Bingo. It's tremendous to look at for guys who have not yet played,
but Franklin has actually seen time for 2 years!
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 25, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Franklin
How does he go from a mediocre guard to a dominant left tackle? Trickett’s not coaching that Cane OL…..
I also think he also did an injustice to FSU's kicker and punter.
Shawn Powell finished 4th last season in punting in the ACC. Checking the ACC stats, Maryland’s Baltz did not make the top 10 (possibly injured?). Regardless based on last years stats, Powell is the 3rd leading punter returning this year, so he should be ranked 3rd or 4th at worst behind Quigley (due to Quigley’s 77 vs 43 punt advantage over Powell, although Powell did average almost 1 yard more per punt in his 43 attempts).
Same with Dustin Hopkins who finished last season as the ACC’s 5th best FG kicker and ahead of both UM’s Bosher and CU’s Jackson. He should be 3rd or 4th team.
We wuz robbed!
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job, no disrespect intended.
After seeing all the teams, what are your thoughts? FSU has fewer players on the lists than BC or Clemson. Does that make you think about choosing FSU for the division? Why?
I still like the fact that FSU gets BC and Clemson at home. When you are talking about two teams that are relatively even in FSU and Clemson and one team that is really close, but not quite as good as the other two in BC, I think you have to go with the home team in those two games. If FSU was @ Clemson and @ BC, I’d honestly pick them to definitely lose @ Clemson and probably lose @ BC (need to look at matchups more with BC).
I’m not convinced when it comes to facing a competant (average and prepared) Nole defense that BC can put a lot of points on the Noles in Doak this year. Same with the Clemson offense who loses Spiller and Austin. And what if Parker leaves?
by NoleOrNever on May 25, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point about how few FSU players PS has on his All-ACC team...
especially because (based on interviews I’ve heard with PS) I think he’s going to pick FSU to win the Atlantic.
Accountabilty is back in Tallahassee....
Link?
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by Bud Elliott on May 26, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Link?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 26, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopkins' missed XPs kept him out for sure.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 25, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, almost forgot about those.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
Through the first 2 games, he was an abysmal 3 of 6. But after a 2nd quarter miss up in Provo, he’d finish the year on a 33-33 made PAT streak. And Hopkins’ 70.4 FG% puts him in the bottom half of the CFB landscape (69th).
Though I believe a disproportionate share of his misses were from a long way out.
He’s probably extremely competitive from inside 40.
I remembered seeing that during the season and being impressed.
Unbelievable to have Gano and Powell back to back. Too bad that didn’t happen circa 1990.
But still had a high % of red zone TDs, right?
Did we happen to stall out at the 30+ yard line frequently???
FSU scored 67 times (TD+FG), 46 of those initiated from the Red Zone (69%).
Also, FSU only converted 80.7% of Red Zone opportunities into points (66th nationally), interestingly enough just ahead of Georgia Tech (67th).
Of the times we did score, turned 63.16% of those opportunities into TDs (35th). Only 17.54% of those turned into FGs (90th).
Very interesting. I thought I recalled we were fairly proficient in the Red Zone.
.. but it looks like we were somewhat pedestrian. Some of that may, of course, be related to strength of schedule.
That 80.7% RZ conversion rate seems pretty low for an elite offense
Could be SOS. Also potentially a reflection of teams not having to account for as much green behind them, meaning they could play more underneath, committing men to stop the run and short passes.
We were tops in the red zone, AND we didn't get to play FSU's defense.
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We led the ACC in points per RZ trip in conference.
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Probably.
I mean, we were tops in the acc, but 63rd nationally? Seems to me if we get 3 cupcakes instead of uf/ byu/ usf, we’re in
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Seminoles.com
In total, the Seminoles lost four fumbles and only scored once in the four times they reached the redzone.
One of the worst games ever.
And I fortunately only had to watch it on TV. I attended the 1987, 1991 FSU-UM games, the Mulligan v. UF in the Sugar, the more recent UF beat-downs in Doak, the ’01 loss to Oklahoma in the Orange…. many other heartbreakers…. so I thought I had experienced lows from a comprehensive variety of angles….but the futility of that game vs. USF, in the particular context, was a new type of pain. Giving that program a jumpstart like that (at our utter expense) was a nightmare.
There do not seem to be very many spots where it is clear that FSU players were underranked.
It makes it pretty clear that we are not any more talented than our key conference opponets.
wait I'm confused...
He ranked 2 DE 2 DT 4 LB 2 CB 2 Saf. doesn’t that add up to 12 players or am I retarded?
The Funk Phenomenon.
Your math is sound.
"I think therefore I am not a Gator"
by FloridaStateJay on May 25, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Do they just put 12 players on these teams?
I mean why twelve how does this work? If you’re going above the number of people on the field why not 15?
The Funk Phenomenon.
FSU has fewer players on the lists than BC or Clemson. Does that make you think about choosing FSU for the division? Why?
I like FSU because the most important position for FSU is QB, and we are very strong there – with a good chance at quality depth. Also, OL plays as a unit, and our unit includes reasonable talent, with vast experience and superb coaching – big plus for FSU.
Our defense is learning a new system, and has a few possible breakout players – but even moderate improvement defensively together with strong returning offense should give us a chance to take the division.
Good logic.
By unit, I’d rank position groups by importance as follows:
1a. OL
1b. DL
2. QB
3. DB
4. LB
5. WR
6. RB
The relatively low rankings of RB/WR simply reflect that it’s a lot easier to find a few 6’ 180-200 lb guys that can run… in any given year, most teams, especially those located in the southeast, are going to have plenty of those. However, this doesn’t negate the impact of the truly special player/superstar at those positions that defies the general assumption (e.g., either of FSU’s Warrick’s).
But back to the original point, it is very nice that we are QUITE solid at the top of those groups, aside from youth/depth at DL.
Really quick, little thought put into it...
OL- FSU & BC
DL-UNC
QB- FSU
DB- Clem & UNC ?
LB- UNC, BC
WR – Miami
RB – VT, Miami, GT
by PadraicTheSeminole on May 25, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Did this a while ago but forgot what thread.
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QB
Top Tier FSU, NCST, GT, VT
Next Tier Clemson, Miami
Next Tier: UNC, Wake, MD, BC, UVA, Duke
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RB
Top Tier: VT, Miami
Next Tier: GT, BC (Harris isn’t special, their line is), Maryland, FSU, Clemson, Wake
Next tier: NC State, UNC, Duke, Virginia
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Functional depth, or total roster?
I might swap Clemson/Miami if we’re talking about guys that will get PT (and only marginal consideration for injury potential — though that might be naive at RB).
Functional depth
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WR
Top Tier: NC State, Miami, FSU, VT, UNC, Duke
Next: Wake, Maryland,
Next: GT, Virginia, Clemson, BC
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You've got more faith than I do
I’d put our WRs in the middle of the pack Bud until they do something. Greg Little is purely a possession guy, Jones, Adams, Highsmith and Boyd are supposed to be outstanding but they’ve been incredibly inconsistent.
http://inthebleachers.net
by InTheBleachers on May 27, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
OL
Top: FSU, BC
Next: UVA, VTech, Clemson, GT
Next: Miami, Wake, Maryland, UNC, Duke, NCST
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DL
Top: UNC, Clem, Miami
Next: UVA, VT, BC, FSU,
Next: GT
Next: Maryland, NC State
Next: Wake, Duke
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LB
Top: UNC
Next: BC, Maryland
Next: VTech, Miami, FSU, Wake, NC STate, Virginia, GTech
Next: Clemson, Duke
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DB
Top: UNC, Clem
Next: Miami, VT, BC
Next: FSU, GT
Next: Wake, Maryland, UVA
Next: NC State, Duke
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So the moral of the story is
that North Carolina is going to have an incredible defense?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on May 25, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Shocking revelation!
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 26, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I figured as such
People weren’t exactly going out on a limb there. Are they they opposite of last years FSU team: All D, no O?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on May 26, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
My assessment would be that they have serious flaws on "O,"
…but they’re not the complete train wreck that we were.
All of this discussion reinforces my own optimism about the ACC slate, though. We appear to stack up pretty favorably, all strengths/weaknesses considered.
Phil Steele 2010 NCAA
Just FYI
Magazine goes on sale June 8th if anyone was wondering….
Makes a great Father's Day gift
and is the gambler’s bible.
I agree, but with the internet it is becoming less and less relevant.
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Does it make me think? In a word, yes, but mostly about Clemson.
Boston College doesn’t seem to be all that intimidating to me as far as All-ACC stars for defense. We know that their coaching is solid, so it will be a tough game none-the-less, particularly since we play them 7 days after Miami.
Clemson is the team that gives me more pause after looking at how their talent on D stacks up against ours. Our offense will be better than theirs, but we have to play Clemson right after UNC. Our offense will be either discouraged after the UNC game, beat up after the UNC game, or both.
If you’d ask me my thoughts about which game we would more likely lose, BC or Clemson, I give it clemson.
Grace I call Your name, Oh won’t Your smile fall over me, I’m cracked and dry on hands and knees, Oh sweet grace rain down on me I need You grace
-Phil Wickham
BC always seems to over achieve
every year I feel like we should be able to handle them fairly easily, but they always play impressively. Especially considering their lack of recruiting prowess.
Speaking of BC, I would love to see Herzlich have an amazing season (outside of our game of course) and get a 1st round draft pick. What a story.
Amen
Discipline pays off in the trenches, as BC shows consistently.
BC has a tradition of beefy OL guys who want to learn and succeed in their OL system. I don’t know how many “recruiting stars” those kids get, but their size, attitude and coachability seem to be consistent. Trickett seems to insist on leaner kids with a bit more athleticism but the same attitude, and we saw the results last year.
BC does get some studs on the DL, but also seems to get kids for their system, and the system seems to produce good DL play.
Trickett absolutely demands discipline in line play – pity the fool who tells Trickett “I want to make plays” instead of “I understand and will complete my assignment.”
Remains to be seen if we can get that discipline on the defensive front.
I can't believe they've maintained their OL coaching staff through all of the turnover...
Which confounds me a bit in terms of how consistent they are in that aspect of their program.
They haven't maintained the same OL coaches
Their current OL coach is Sean Devine (who got there in 2009), prior to him, their OL coach was Jack Bicknell from 2007 until 2009, and before that it was Jim Turner for a couple seasons. So I guess it’s more remarkable how consistent their OLs are considering the turnover in their staff there.
"It is defeat that turns bone to flint; it is defeat that turns gristle to muscle; it is defeat that makes men invincible." FSU's Return in 2010
by SeminoleSkins87 on May 25, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry if confusing -- I was recognizing that fact in my statement.
Realize nowm after re-reading my comment, that most times when you say, “I can’t believe,” you’re actually stating that something is true. Interpret my statement literally in this case — in light of overall coaching turnover, I was presuming they couldn’t have maintained the same OL coaching staff.
But the guys who are now starting are Bicknell's guys.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 26, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefuly we see a serious dropoff in a couple years, then.
I still contend that BC should eventually decline as a program. A lot working against them.
We don't even need them to. We'll blow by them in 2011.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on May 26, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I've defended Smith on this site
But that one I don’t get.
Might need “The Price is Right” wah-waaah on that one.
Yea that one confused the hell of out me
Smith is going to be one of the top 8 LB’s in the ACC and Better then bradham…..according to Steele. But heck if its true sweetness!
Team GOLD
Rico, I know this is a long shot
but did you get the Price is Right dant dant dant daaaaahhh, beeeooowwwwwww
from a Jim Rome show last week? He must’ve played it 100 times…it was overkill, but hilarious.
"I'm just a big, hairy, American winning machine"
by Randall W. Spetman on May 25, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
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