Monday Morning Tomahawks 06.14.10
- I gotta lead this one off with a congratulations for the baseball team, as the Noles defeated Vanderbilt in the Super Regional. And a tip o' the cap to manager Mike Martin, who shocked all of us by not meddling. Martin made very few crippling decisions and generally allowed his hitters to hit the baseball using metal bats. FSU scored 9 and 7 runs in its two wins. The crowd was disappointing in number (less than 13,000 for 3 games) due to the ridiculous heat, but the fans who showed were quite spirited.
- At this point it looks like FSU will play TCU, who bested Texas, starting early on Saturday. Nole fans can only hope they can beat down a MWC team like they did BYU (save the e-mails, I know there is no correlation).
Football
- The freshmen report to campus in a week. One item of discussion that came up over the weekend was how much playing time the freshmen will get. Specifically, how much run will the freshmen get in non-special teams situations? In talking to people, I think they seriously overestimate the playing time the young receivers will receive. Remember that going into last season, FSU had major questions at receiver after losing Greg Carr to graduation and Preston Parker to the law. Yet young studs Rodney Smith and Willie Haulstead only combined to catch three balls. This year FSU has very few questions at the receiver position. Will there really be many more balls to go around? I don't think so, but if it does happen, it will likely happen because those kids get run in blowouts.
- Some positive information has come out about the off-season program. Specifically, Nigel Carr is rumored to be up to 240 lbs. That represents a gain of 9 lbs since the end of Spring ball. That's great news for the junior, who is slated to start at outside linebacker. Looks like he finally has his mind right. Also, it now appears that Demonte McAllister is buying into the idea of playing defensive tackle (the position at which he was recruited). He battled injury issues and redshirted last year, but I'm told he definitely looks bigger now and could probably get to 280 lbs as a RsFrosh. That's not where FSU fans would have wanted him if asked last August, but that's promising progress under the new regime.
- Starting tomorrow, the ACC writers will do a review of CFN's preview articles. We hope that by critiquing the work of the national writers (which was surprisingly detailed and accurate), we'll present you with a great guide to all the teams in conference.
- I also have a buddy who will be launching an injury-tracking website for college ball. Anyone else find it odd that injury info is almost impossible to obtain for college football, yet is plastered all over the place for the NFL? More info soon.
- In recruiting news, FSU TE Target Nick O'Leary destroyed the 7-on-7 tournament this weekend. That even had multiple national recruits. Someone said O'Leary is the best TE recruit to come out of Florida this century. He was the best TE on Dwyer last season when Dwyer had 4* Gerald Christian (UF Commit). Also, OL target Mike Matulis (Park Vista HS) had a nice showing at UF's camp. FSU will have its camps in the next two weeks. More info on all this in the Recruiting Discussion Thread.
- Nothing new as of Sunday on the potential Jarvis Jones transfer.
- On expansion, I'm not sure there's much new to report that you didn't know Friday. Nebraska is a Big10 team now. Colorado is a Pac10 team. Boise to the MWC (was in the WAC). Perhaps the biggest news is that Texas A&M is reportedly leaning to the SEC rather than the PAC16. We'll have more on the factors the SEC will look at if it wants to expand soon. There are about 600 comments on the issue here
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I agree about the freshman WRs...
The only one physically ready is Green, and he’s gotta learn to run routes with more polish, and other nuances of being a WR…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
I thought Haggins had good size for his frame.
But he has the same learning curve as Green.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Body wise?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
How big do you think Reed is?
5’10" 165?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
So that's how big you think Haggins is, right?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
currently, yes
for the record I haven’t actually seen him. But from his vids he looks thin limbed a la Bert.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
Ok.
I only asked because I show him at Showtime last year and he was much bigger than I thought.
This is him at Showtime.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
He looks bigger with a t-shirt on
When he was throwing the ball around at Showtime in that wifebeater he looked skinny as a rail
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, definitely
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far.
He is skinny. He’s just bigger than I expected and looks like he could put some good weight on.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Haggins is taller and thicker as a high schooler and actually has growth potential
not close imo
Tomahawknation.com
I think Scooter Haggins
Will be a safety not a WR. But he will still have a learning curve.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
With 5 "safeties" currently committed?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
With 5 Safeties?
Yes, because he has the talent to contribute their right away. Nobody is stepping up. We desperately need someone to step in and play safety. It would not shock me to see Harris and Haggins at the two safety spots at some point this year.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Harris???
He is pure CB man. That’s what he was recruited for.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Harris???
Yes, butt he situation is fluid. He was recruited to be corner, but he is big enough to be a safety in Stoops system. I think that he will come in and be offered immediate playing time at Safety.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
You are aware he's a JUCO CB right?
I mean, I don’t want to step on any toes, but the guy is a true CB, and with the uncertainty we have at that position, you want to move him to safety?
"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"
by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 14, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Juco
Yes, I am aware that he is a Juco CB. I am also aware that we have had nobody step up at safety.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Not going to be Harris
Moody and Parks got that on lock.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry man, can't agree with you there
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Parks and Moody?
Demps and Harley?
All with time in the program but Haggins should be our safety?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Parks, Moody, Demps, Harley
Parks-On again off again. Can’t keep his head right. Can’t stay healthy.
Moody-Great in run support, a serious liability in pass pro.
Demps?
Harley-Never has recovered mentally from the concussion. May not be able to handle the mental parts of the assignments. Great straight line speed and athleticism. Has not put any of it together.
Haggins will be 6’1" and 190~195lbs when he suits up. He wants to play Safety, we have no proven safeties.
That is how I think he winds up at safety.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Haggins wants to play WR
And Jimbo has said that is where he will start out.
I'll Come Back and Apologize If
Neither Harris nor Haggins winds up at safety in 2010.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Just apologize now because neither are happening.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Moody was asked to do something most safeties cant do and that’s to cover receivers man to man he will not be asked to that in our new scheme so please hold of judgment until then.
From everyones accounts of Parks this spring he is a different player mentally and he is ready to contribute. He is only going to be a junior this year man, I would of liked for him to step up sooner but I am not going to kill a 19 year old for not being ready.
I think a big point most fans have to focus on and remember is that once we are back to being great we will not be expecting freshman and sophomores to step on the field and start. It may happen but they will have guys with 3 or 4 years in the program ahead of them and those guys will be studs. Normally the best teams have experience and upper class-men leading the team with some younger guys cracking the two deep.
I don't diagree with your main points
But our secondary is in bad shape. Safety is the weakest point on our defense. There will be an opportunity to come in and see the field immediately.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
We will agree to disagree on this point, I respect your passion and your stance never the less. I think our two deep leaving the spring will be the same during the entire season a lot of talent from those guys.
No Problem
I’m wrong all the time. If I’m wrong about this, I will gladly say so, because it will mean that our secondary has improved dramatically.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
I'm just not sure what Haggins has proven to line up at safety for us in a game in 2010.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
But you think that's where he winds up in the next few months despite already having 6 safeties on campus that have gone through at least one full season already.
We’re also taking quite a few in the 2011 recruiting cycle and are looking to take, at most, 1 receiver. I just don’t think it makes sense. Maybe in 2012 or 2013, but not this soon.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
We are loaded at WR.
In the class he comse in with, he might not be able to beat any of them out at WR. We have had nobody step up at Safety, the kids has said that he wants to play safety. I think he gets a shot. It doesn’t matter if there are 6 guys if front of you, if none of them are making plays.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Why do you think Haggins could beat any of them out?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
This is flawed
You say he is coming into a loaded WR unit and might not be able to beat out any of the guys he came in with (none of whom have proven anything yet), but it doesn’t matter if there are 6 guys ahead of him at S?
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 15, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I got it.
You guys don’t agree. No problem. We will all know in a couple of months and I am sure you guys won’t let me forget if I am wrong. I don’t have any issue with saying I was wrong. I’ll be happy to.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Why don't you just explain why he makes more sense at safety when safety is just as loaded as receiver?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Hmm
Okay:
1) We are returning Reed, Fortson, Haulstead, Smith, plus it looks like Easterling might play.
2) We have Zero starts at safety. Moody and Parks had there moments, but there is NOBODY behind them and you can’t go into the season with two guys who might be alright and nothing behind them. Parks is on again off again and fragile, Moody is a great hitter but a liability in coverage.
3) Haggins has stated that he will play where he is asked to, but would like to play safety because he sees a better future for himself at that position.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
A: Moody played in 13 games, starting two. IMO he played way better than Korey Mangum and should have started more. Parks was behind J-Rob and didn’t start IIRC.
2. In this system, Safeties won’t be required to cover WRs on a regular basis but rather play their zone and make a tackle when needed. Honestly almost every safety could be a liability in coverage.
3- He said that, yes but some believe Greg Dent at S > Gret Dent at WR and Scooter at WR > Scooter at S. Why not keep Scooter as a WR and move Dent to the defensive backfield.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Jun 15, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No Argument except on #3
To each his own on the others, but:
Dent signed specifically to be a WR and has expressed his desire to be a WR.
Haggins signed as an athlete and has expressed his desire to play Safety.
As I have said twice before, we all just disagree. Somebody will be wrong-if that is me I will come back and say so.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
And I apologize for earlier.
Haggins could swap to safety. I just don’t think he has a legit chance to get PT there this year.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Demps is behind them and is a promising safety prospect...
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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2124 already covered this Moody in coverage stuff
He won’t be liability in coverage anymore because we’re not asking him to do what they asked him to do.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I think in the Jimbo System
you don’t have to be the fastest Wr in the world.
Seems to me Jimbo asks his players to be good route runners, good decision makers, throw some blocks and catch the ball.
If Haggins can do those things I think he can be a fine FSU WR.
Look at FSU’s better recievers right now and recent past.
Easterling, Owens, Reed, Parker.
Mostly under sized. Reed being the only burner and Parker having some moves. Other than that, they can make the reliable short catches and move the chains.
by harper.rb on Jun 14, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly correct about the requirements of WRs under CJF
Very “Belichek”-esque in that regard.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
Belichesque?
"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"
by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm telling you, you're going to see Kenny Shaw on the field this season
even if it is in the final moments of Samford
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm really proud of nigel
I always loved his intensity, but now he’s filling out that frame also, im excited to see what he’ll bring this year
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
by jfree on Jun 14, 2010 9:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Just hope he can play with some control and discipline.
Love his fire.
Only freshmen I expect to see the field in non-special teams situations are Jones, Joyner, Luc, and Jacobs. Werner and Cummings might get on the field too due to lack of depth at DE, but in the future I hope those types of freshmen aren’t immediately in the rotation.
Team Gold
Yea nigel was real reckless at times
But I felt all the linebackers looked lost and reckless at times, hopefully with this new weight, determination, and new staff turns nigel into a player some might not thought he coulda been, maybe one of the best on the team come season end imo
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
by jfree on Jun 14, 2010 9:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I LOVE his fire......reminds me of the glory days and I wondered why more of it didn't rub off on his teammates.
Then again…..it’s pretty hard to be fired up & swaggerific when you are routinely getting torched for 70-yards TD plays.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Was it Nigel whose family packed up and moved to Tallahassee to be closer to him?
Or was it Thomas’s parents. I know it was one of the First Coast trio. If it was Nigel, that may explain the change in focus and intensity.
Brand new to the community...
Excited to get on board finally. Just became a FSU alum as of May 1st! I’ve been following TN for about a year now, very close, almost every day. Its real nice to have a site that goes into this much information without charging an annoying subscription fee!! You guys do a great job, especially Bud. Big ups to you my man for all the work i can see you put in. I’m going to try and contribute myself so look for some posts in the near future. I know its early but I’m dying right now waiting for the season to start so I can get out there in big booster fashion for all games, especially the Oklahoma game which I plan on making the trip for…. btw JFREE your quote by Coley is nasty. Well chosen sir
welcome to the best nole site out
and thanks haha that quote always gets me pumped
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
by jfree on Jun 14, 2010 9:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Congrats and welcome (to the site and the alumni crew).
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
TCU website for those that are interested
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Mike Martin did not "shock all of us".
Some of us who frequent your board do respect and believe in Mike Martin. You want to bash him, go ahead it is your board but please do not include all of us in your attacks.
by glommer on Jun 14, 2010 10:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You think I included you? I meant people who know baseball. Don't flatter yourself.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Martin has always made tons of managerial mistakes that don't allow his teams the best chance to win.
Yesterday he made few. You disagree with any of that?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to say
I love to visit this site for all the information and content you provide. But I have found recently that your tone has become more derogatory and less professional towards others. You also use profanity in your posts and/or comments which should not be done by a person running a major blog. I’m not arguing that what you say is wrong, but there is a better way to respond to people. I think you first response to glommer was not appropriate.
by reznik1979 on Jun 14, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Glommer doesn't write for us
He has no expectation of being included in forming an editorial opinion.
I never curse in articles and rarely do it in the comments. During gamethreads I occasionally allow it because they move so fast we can’t possibly delete them all.
I guess I am just tired of some of the people who are unwilling to learn.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You wrote this just this morning:
“Gotta remember none of the kids we are recruiting will do a damn thing for us on the DL in 2011 and most won’t do shit in 2012. UF just took the most impressive DL haul in memory and nobody projects those kids to do shit until 2012.”
I don’t think it’s necessary to do this. It actually undermines your credibility and class when you do this.
Like I said, I understand all the editorial pieces are done by a select group of individuals, but you do need to show some respect when you are in charge of running this show.
That was copy pasted from another forum
You’re right. I should have edited that. And I didn’t put that this morning.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I do think TN has shifted slightly in the direction of impatience with "those not in the know".
Where we used to bring them along as mch as possible. I think, reznik1979 is on the right trail. There is nothing wrong its just a tone adjustment.
However:
a. I’m just a poster
2. I have been guilty of being too combative lately (group hug tricknole)
d. I’ll try to do better myself!
Giddy-up!
You're alright.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think you're expectly this to be as vapid as the other boards.
Since its inception, with the Weatherford Report, this board has been the only voice of reason in the Seminole Blogesphere- real analysis, real facts, real statistics, as opposed to the tepid Bowden worship and blind Groupthink enforced on other boards. Time and again Bud and the other editors were proven right when those who control the other boards were just wrong.
To post on this board, one must have facts, not smack, not emotional outbursts, not baseless opinions. Readers here can learn more about football and the good and bad of the program than they can over months spent on other Nole boards. There are no holds barred in the analyses here— both the ups and the downs, the strengths and weaknesses, will be discussed. That’s why people are migrating here from other boards— they are tired of shallow discussion or outright suppression of the issues elsewhere.
But not every fan who finds their way this board can tolerate voices contrary to undying support for whatever the coaches do. We invite such fans to do something new— read the posted articles, stay abreast of the discussions, and join in. But they must do something more than emote, as Glommer did. When Bud aludes to Mike Martin’s interference, you can rest assured that problem has been statistically analyzed and thoroughly discussed.
Grommer added nothing to the discussion but empty support for Mike Martin while criticizing the editor. There are plenty of other boards for pledging one’s unthinking fandom. This isn’t one of them.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Link?
Can you provide a link to any article on TN outlining Mike Martin’s decision-making and how it hurts the team? I don’t remember any particular posts with this information. Maybe I just missed them…
by TonySopraNOLE on Jun 14, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You did miss them. There was one very interesting one last baseball season
about Mike Martin’s use of the bunt. Statistics was able to prove that bunting in most cases was extremely detrimental to the team.
85 days till Samford. 09.04.10.
what I was thinking of.
nm
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
There were a few showing how he wastes production just with the lineup. We could average 1-3 more runs a game just with lineup changes
Team GOLD
Not quite a full run but yes his lineups were mind boggling at times
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2010/3/30/1396732/4-seminoles-sweep-terrapins-and
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
After reading that ask yourself why Cardullo was in the 2 spot for 75% of the season
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
There will be more on the continued regression of this baseball program when the season is over but for now here are a few
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/5/12/872780/mike-martin-micromanager-why-fsus
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2010/4/5/1405815/seminoles-baseball-narrowly-avoids
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2010/6/5/1502638/florida-state-seminoles-vs-oregon
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
The Mike Martin Micromanager article
was exactly what I was looking for. Pretty eye-opening. I don’t know how I missed it the first time. Thanks…
by TonySopraNOLE on Jun 14, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Going to link this on the left sidebar so everyone can see.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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My God.
I never really paid too much attention to the Baseball articles. (Not much of a Baseball fan) But Damn that article makes me sick to my stomach. Thanks for the information.
The Funk Phenomenon.
Search feature... Mike martin
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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No, just a little wound up.
I get that way when refugees from other boards try their tactics here to make this board fall in line with the others.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is perfect.
See Texas. The same Texas team that as of yesterday was a team, according to some on this site, we did not match up against and could not beat. Yet we are going to Omaha and Texas is staying home in Austin.
You don’t like Martin. I get it and respect your opinion. All I’m saying is not everyone agrees with your opinion. As your site continues to grow, I just think you should accept a big tent philosophy and not include everyone in your opinion.
by glommer on Jun 14, 2010 10:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's all about the draw
I don’t think we’d beat Texas 2 of 3. (note: we don’t like Garrido here, either)
>>---l>
or Arkansas or Miami or CSF
They fact that we got 2 teams with below average offenses is extremely lucky
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
They can startight up mash, .633 SLG as a team
They do a good job taking advantage of poor pitching
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
If you have issues with the discussion taking place on this site, why not contribute to it some time rather than complaining about it in other places and using your first three comments here to preach about it?
Seriously, I think I can speak for others in that we would welcome the diversity as long as you back up your opinions with solid evidence.
I don't dislike Mike Martin
I dislike people like you who stick their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the harmful moves he makes.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
A couple points
1) I enjoy this site for the abundance of Seminole information and have recommended it to several of my friends.
2) I have no problem with criticism and in fact I want to see it discussed. But I think the criticism can be done more tactfully. I don’t doubt your knowledge. But I think you can make your point without throwing fellow Noles under the bus.
3) My original post centered around your choice to use the word “all”. Your site is growing like crazy and there are differing opinions on various topics. To assume everyone visiting your site has the same opinion as you is short-sided. I did not attack you or your opinion just the paint brush you used to make your point.
5) This is your board and you have every right to run it the way you want. Like I stated earlier, I do enjoy this for the info provided. It truly is top notch. But, i do believe, as the head moderator, you should recognize that not everyone agrees with 100% of your opinions and as a result, should not be lumped into all of them. A lot of people, including myself, were not surprised by Martin’s performance this weekend.
by glommer on Jun 14, 2010 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Some thoughts:
I have been following TN for a while and while I may see your point that some of the editors recent post have had a frustrated tone. They have spent a lot of time/effort explaining why they were frustrated and annoyed. They back up all of their points with great info. I don’t think you can take a very small sample set and then make the claim that Bud was not diplomatic enough as a head moderator.
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
In other words,
how many times do the editors have to explain all the background discussion and all the articles to the newbies, so as to avoid being accused of “biased opinions”? I think they can reasonably expect folks like Glommer to read, then weigh in, and I can see their frustration with the increasing number of new posters who don’t..
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was not centered around the negative tone.
It was centered around the attempt to lump “all of us” into agreeing with the negative tone towards Mike Martin.
You're not one of the writers.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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All of us refers to the guys on staff here at TN
Not every member of the site or every Nole fan in general.
Place Your Ad Here.
by Jamil Dawson on Jun 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I play Devil's advocate, with good intentions?
A) I can see how a reader may feel included in the following statement:
And a tip o’ the cap to manager Mike Martin, who shocked all of us by not meddling.
Not everyone would automatically/mentally edit to: “all of us [here at TN]”
2) I understand that it can be frustrating to be forced to address the same issues again and again.
D) I can also understand, however, how it can be off-putting to some readers to have editors respond to a post with:
You think I included you? I meant people who know baseball. Don’t flatter yourself.
After all, a different poster (Riznik) reacted thusly:
But I have found recently that your tone has become more derogatory and less professional towards others… I’m not arguing that what you say is wrong, but there is a better way to respond to people. I think you first response to glommer was not appropriate.
I know there are trolls and willfully ignorant posters who can be incredibly frustrating to deal with (and I know how easy it can be to shift into attack mode), but I also think that it would be in the site’s best interest for the editors to refrain (for as long as possible) from belittling/attacking such posters. It may work to drive off the unwelcome troll, but it may also unintentionally drive off visitors (who might otherwise stick around) before they get to “know” the editors better.
by Invictus13 on Jun 14, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Mike Martin is a public figure
When a guy repeatedly makes the same mistakes and fails to learn from them, while banking, he’s open to criticism.
Again, my opinion and the opinion of our writers doesn’t reflect the opinion of our readers. Our readers can and do think whatever that want. I don’t know how anyone can think that.
If you weren’t surprised by Martin’s actions, you don’t watch FSU baseball. His decisions were a stark departure from years of damaging decisions. You are contending that you expected him to pull a 180 and not put FSU in bad positions?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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That is my point
You just wrote:
“Again, my opinion and the opinion of our writers doesn’t reflect the opinion of our readers. Our readers can and do think whatever that want. I don’t know how anyone can think that.”
Yet earlier you wrote:
“And a tip o’ the cap to manager Mike Martin, who shocked all of us by not meddling”
Your original post, and what I was originally commenting on, did intend to reflect the opinion of your readers when you wrote “all of us”. This site is too big for you to possibly think that all of us agree with that statement.
Bud, your site is growing daily because of the quality content provided. All I’m suggesting is that you recognize that, as this community grows, not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time. There are plenty of people who are very knowledgeable about FSU baseball and, even though they may get frustrated by Martin from time to time, still support and stand behind him. To ridicule these FSU fans and claim they do not “watch FSU baseball” is absurd.
I have stated what is on my mind and there is no need for me to comment further on this subject. You can have the last word if you want.
"All of us" editors, perhaps?
It’s fairly well documented on here how he bunts at inopportune times and many on here do expect multiple bunts that potentially cost us some runs throughout the game.
Not everyone on here is a Martin “hater”. But it doesn’t mean they don’t wish he’d improve areas where we are clearly lacking.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I can accept that.
I graduated from FSU in the early 90s and trust me I have been more than frustrated with Martin many times and I don’t think he is perfect by any stretch. I welcome the criticism and think much of it is deserved. But in the end, he is still a Nole and he will get my support.
I root for him heavily. Live and die with every pitch. Trust me.
Most here are Nole fans (I ban the disruptive trolls, though there are a few rival fans).
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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We all want him to win because if he doesn't, FSU doesn't.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Glommer
you’re not a part of the editorial staff. I’m not dumb enough to think I could capture the feelings of a 3500 member site with one statement. The statement was clearly (and I think you realize this and are trying to be difficult) representative of our editorial staff.
So NO, it did not intend to reflect the opinion of readers. I have no idea what readers are thinking. I do have a really good idea of what our writers are thinking because we converse via e-mail. The idea that “all of us” is a reflection of readers’ thoughts is absurd.
You’ve again dodged my question. Perhaps you missed it? Here it is again:
His decisions were a stark departure from years of damaging decisions. You are contending that you expected him to pull a 180 and not put FSU in bad positions?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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At the risk of prolonging this further than need be
I get where glommer was coming from in regards to the “all” reference. I took it as an overall generalization of the common thinking towards MM (as those who enjoy his managerial style are clearly in the minority)
I think maybe the caveat of writing, “all of us here at TN,” or even, “all of us here at the office” (obviously used in idiom form and not in reference to a centralized building) would suffice to clear this up.
Overall, it sounds like glommer is being oversensitive about being lumped into a group he feels he doesn’t belong, and Bud is being oversensitive about glommer intentionally trying to make this a bigger deal than it is. Whether or not it is accurate, that’s how it is being relayed IMO.
Bring back Jeff Bowden...as a pińata.
by TheNole9Yards on Jun 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Good post.
You are probably correct. I think we have beaten this horse pretty good. I’m fine with moving on.
Ditto
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On the contrary
If the horse hasn’t been dead for at least a full day, it hasn’t been beaten enough.
Flog away, gentlemen.
I think this was a quite useful conversation for readers and staff
to chew on, alike.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
WRONG! A dead horse can never be beaten too much.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I would like to be consulted via email from now on.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
by ricobert1 on Jun 14, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
REC'D
haha
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
What expectation do you have of being included in an editorial opinion?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Dear Sir,
I read your postings at least once weekly- usually on Saturday Evenings after Martha serves me a nice warm glass of milk. I find your commentary thought provoking and logically arranged, as an aspiring attorney, such as yourself, would write. Because of my devout readership, I petition you for full membership into the “blog we” so that future postings consider my positions, biases, and experience.
Warmest Regards,
Winston E. Glommer
by coonhound on Jun 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
A former player
who I play softball with agrees with you Bud….
Current Player
I know agrees and says the same about Shouppe. FSU lost a potential 2011 commit for baseball to UF cuz of the coaching staff.
Scouts have openly told prospects "even if you don't go pro, don't go pitch for Shoupe"
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I know a freshman that chose to pitch for UF,
After both his brothers went to FSU. I don’t know all the details, but I know he grew up an FSU fan.
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
We dropped the ball on a very good pitching prospect this year
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Kid I know grew up FSU fan also
But sees what is going on at UF and easily made the right choice. He should also be a pretty high round draft pick..
I had a friend once.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I know a guy
who once say he wasn’t a retard…anymore.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Also known as "ritards"
as noted in the smash documentary, “The Hangover”.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
In 5 years everyone will understand what we're saying. Making the best decisions is easy.
Managers just want to “make things happen” because they want to feel involved. More managerial action is usually worse.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Damnit...this is why I need to start scrolling down before I post.
Sonofa…
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
What do you believe he will do?
I believe in him. I believe he will give away our best chances to win a title. He’s done it his whole career.
Team Gold
Or at least for the last decade...
I don’t have the lifespan to remember things he did early on when he was establishing his legend.
Team Gold
His entire tenure.
It’s hard to make 15 or so CWS and not win any. Very hard.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Ya, I mean
Assuming a simple 1/8 odds of winning (never considering whether we were a favorite) we have an expected value of >1 NC at this moment, yet an empty trophy case.
Team Gold
Good thing you inserted that disclaimer in parenthesis
MattD was about to go all statistical on your ass
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Not all that unlikely
Martin’s teams have been to the CWS 13 times.
If you assume a 1/8 probability of winning the CWS on any given trip and independence of the outcomes (neither is completely accurate, but are ok for getting a “ballpark” figure), then you’re right that the “expected” number of championships is 13/8 = 1.625, but the modal (most likely) number of championships is 1 (with a probability of 32.7%) and the probability of 0 or 1 championships is 50.35%. More to the point, the probability of no championships is
(7/8)^13 = 0.176 = 17.6%
which is not a small probability. I don’t mean to defend Martin, but if you didn’t know anything else about the situation, you could pretty easily attribute the lack of CWS championships to chance.
Probably this has something to say about the rational expectations thread as well.
Martin has the same problem the Dick Howser had,
I root for Noles baseball. Therefore, they never had a chance. I also root for the Indians. FSU 0-19. Indians, (in my lifetime), 0-3 in World Series. In 1954 the Indians won more games in the regular season than any team ever at the time. They were swept by the Giants. Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, (sp?), that pitching staff. I was thinking of offering my services to the CIA. If they could somehow find a way for me to root for the Taliban, maybe we could make some progress. I love statistics, but sometimes I just don’t know.
I respect Martin.
I’m also glad he didn’t try to win with small ball.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Once Martin finds out who were are facing against TCU expect all that to change
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
So the more potent the offense, the more small ball he plays?
Serious question, because if that is what you mean, he is worse then I allowed myself to believe.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
I think the correlation arises when we face great pitching
that he starts to pucker up, managerially speaking.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
Thats a great idea when you have the lockdown pitching we have.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
by ricobert1 on Jun 14, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well played again.
I am glad I made it clear that I was kidding.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Now I just want to see how many more of those you have.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Ok, I'm just taking up server space for SBNation now
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
That exchange was funny.
It was like a literal scene from The Simpsons.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I agree
I worried several times that we would go small when we needed to hit away, but that mistake didn’t happen.
Little tidbit on O'Leary
I know most people know that O’Leary is some how related to Jack Nicklaus. Another thing to add, is that Jack Nicklaus’s grand son goes to FSU. Hopefully we can get some family recruiting to get this STUD recruit to Tallahassee. It is FSU or UM and the family connection must help in some way.
by DeanerNoleProphet on Jun 14, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions
So O'Leary's brother/cousin goes to FSU?
His parents are apparently UGA grads and his grandfather is one of the most famous OSU alumns around.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
His Dad (Bill) played at UGA in the early '80s
His mom is the former, Nan Nicklaus, also a UGA grad. Uncle Steve played (sort of) for FSU though!
Right, someone mentioned that last week but I forgot.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Yea, might be.
No clue.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Yeah bbnoles has it right
Nancy his mom is Jack Nicklaus’s daughter. Steve her brother played at FSU in the early 80’s. Both Nancy and her husband, Bill O’Leary went to Georgia.
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
OK
It has to be comforting to O’Leary that his close relative will be at the same school as him. It would for me…
by DeanerNoleProphet on Jun 14, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
It's all about the draw, and we got a tremendous one
Congrats to the boys, as they’ve surpassed all reasonable expectations. Hopefully we can keep swinging in Omaha.
>>---l>
Especially after looking at how much we have regressed over the years
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Yep. Arguably the worst or second worst team we've fielded in 10 years.
Baseball, especially college baseball, is a funny game.
>>---l>
On expansion ...
I continue to have a very queasy feeling in my stomach on this — I think this is very, very dangerous to our program.
We need to be rooting very, very hard that A&M blinks and follows Texas to the Pac 10. I don’t see how the SEC can get to 14 or 16 without us if Texas A&M is not included. But with the Aggies, they could add someone else and leave the true southern ACC schools in a marginally viable football conference — this would be a HUGE recruiting hill for us to climb.
What I’m hearing is that UF will do everything in its power to keep us out of the ACC — they know what it’s like to be the No. 2 football program in the state and will lay down on the RR tracks to keep that from happening again.
Now, don’t believe for a second this bit about UNC/Duke going to ACC. The alumni bases for those schools would flat-out revolt if that happened. Zero chance. But the SEC could easily look toward Big 12 castoffs or Big East schools to get to 14 or 16 and add some new TV markets.
Can’t stress enough that a college football world with a 16-team PAC 10 that includes Texas, OU, USC; a 16-team Big 10 that includes Mich/Ohio St/ND and Nebraska and a 16-team SEC that includes all the usual suspects plus A&M/somebody like Missouri/Kansas somebody like Louisville, etc. would be a TERRIBLE thing for us if we’re left in a predominantly basketball conference with FSU as the strongest football program.
Would make recruiting incredibly difficult and would put tremendous pressure on Jimbo to achieve shor-term results.
I hope our athletic dept. and administration are up to the challenge — this will require some major politicking and maneuvering.
Btw, ESPN resporting
The “save the Big 12” campaign is dead and that A&M leaning toward SEC.
Orangebloods reporting All but A&M will stay.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
GREAT NEWS!
If true ….
Status quo is our friend, imo.
Agree with that!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
A&M to SEC still takes an expansion spot in the SEC that would possibly otherwise be ours in a future move
I’m still nervous here. SEC would also not have an odd number of school. So they are going to need another.
LouC makes a good point in the Discussion thread...
If SEC takes back its offer to A&M then they are still the top dogs over the Big 10 (now twelve), the Big 12 (now 10), the PAC11, and the ACC.
If they take A&M, they set off an explosion to the Pac 16, Big 16, etc and their competition increases.
I think it would be prudent for the SEC to say “nah, we’re good now.”
That makes sense
Although opening up Texas will be hard temptation to resist.
Would adding A&M and VT/Mizzou be a detriment?
It would seemingly make the strongest conference stronger while expanding markets and without going to 16 which would be harder to manage than 12/14.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Correct me if I'm wrong
But hasn’t A&M been pretty bad a f’ball for quite a few years now? Seems to me that the SEC would just be adding another lower tier team. Agree that the crazy fanbase and TX market might be good, but I wouldn’t say that the would make the SEC any stronger in terms of the product on the field.
I don't think it would make the product better, per se.
But I think the brand name A&M provides many more watchable matchups than without A&M, and adding them would not hurt the product, either. The huge population is the big factor. There are a ton of A&M fans and they will definitely watch their and other SEC games. I would venture to say even some nonA&M fans in Texas would watch A&M play some SEC games vs schools like LSU, Bama, Auburn and any good matchups with SEC east schools. Even half of Texas is like the size of AL, MS, LA and AR combined.
But, no, you’re not wrong. A&M hasn’t been all that good at football lately.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Lost 8 of the last 9 bowl games (1998-2009),
Including getting beat last year by UGA 44-20.
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
Where are you trying to go with those numbers?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Just an idea of where they are,
I forgot to add their recent records: 09 6-7, 08 4-8, 07 7-6
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
Yea, they haven't been all that god at football lately.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I know money overrules all, but..
Recruiting wise, you gotta think Texas is really against A&M opening the door to the SEC for recruiting, and the SEC would be frothing at the mouth for it. They already have a little, but A&M would tap the keg figuratively speaking. The mentality for recruits in texas that their state is represented in the SEC is something Mack Brown does not want to deal with.
Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas already recruit Texas, as does Bama.
I am not fully understanding this recruiting argument
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I am saying much more.
The same way UF uses the SEC rep against us when recruiting in florida. Texas recruits that would never leave Texas to goto UGA or UF can now be in the all-mighty SEC and represent at a Texas school at the same time.
Do you not think it could aid in landing a kid or two they otherwise wouldn't have gotten each year?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
You're probably right
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it would be beneficial.
I’m not sure it would be anything too major though.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
And yet, ESPN tweets 20 minutes ago that Texas to the Pac-whatever is imminent
Can it just be over, please?
>>---l>
ESPN has done a poor job covering this IMO
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, this tells me ....
That Texas saw less value in the Pac 10 than it did risk in A&M going to the SEC. This is really a shocking testament to the power of the SEC, in my opinion and it also shows that A&M played this brilliantly — again, if this is all true. Texas fel so threatened by having A&M in the SEC that they basically trashed the whole plan — that would be my take, at least. Wow.
Disagree. This was about being able to have own TV network.
Short term Pac10 is a money grab Long term the Texas network could earn them 5-7 per year within the decade. on top of the projected 15 they’ll get from the Big12 (now big 10)
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I see your point, but ..
Why would the other Big 12 schools now agree to the Texas Network deal when they wouldn’t before when they didn’t have attractive offers from other conferences?
They don't have to agree. Those schools know they don't have an offer to the Pac16 w/o Texas
They are going to get money somewhere between SEC and ACC, and that’s the best they can do because they do not have a choice.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmm
Colorado sure figured a way around that. I wonder if it’s true that Oklahoma/OSU/TT don’t have an offer without Texas? If those schools accepted a Pac 10 offer, wouldn’t they be forcing Texas’ hand just like Texas was forcing theirs? If I were Pac-10 commish, it doesn’t matter what order they come in — if one or 2 commit, the others have to follow.
What A&M did — whether strategically or not - put tremendous pressure on Texas. If the other Pac 10 defectors learned from that, I don’t see why they would have to accept a new Big 12 deal that would favor Texas - hell, that was the complaint from everybody in the conferenc BEFORE Texas got it’s own deal.
I don’t know, you may be right, but it doens’t add up to me.
Pac10 going to 12 is different than going to 16
Colorado was always a different animal and they had an offer before any of the texas schools.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, whether planned or not, if the orangbloods report is true
Texas A&M has emerged with mucho leverage.
“Oh, you want to save the Big 12? Well, I guess that’s all up to us Aggies now, isn’t it? Either we go to the SEC and wreck your Longhorn-obsessed conference or we ‘save the day.’”
They sure are in a strong bargaining position when it comes to negotiating a new conference revenue sharing package, if that’s what happens.
If the Big 12 survives, I wonder if they will try to get back to 12 teams?
Might actually go prospecting in SEC country — not for SEC teams, but team in their markets — Southern Miss? One of the La. alphabet soup schools? Memphis?
No they want to be 10, play 9 conf games, and scrap the champ game
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
The want to go to 10 teams and scrap the Champ Game. They want A&M gone.
Nobody is begging A&M to stay.
Also, huge showdown here.
Check this out: http://sbnation.com/e/1281274
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Get rid of A&M and no title game?
Why????
Makes no sense to me.
Less money, open up Texas to SEC — I don’t get it.
Not less money (playing more conference games because they now play 9 each instead of 8)
And better chance they play for title w/o having to play conf game.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I think they want A&M but want to stay at 10.
Not sure why Bud said they didn’t. Perhaps he misspoke.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think they are fine adding another.
A&M more important to SEC than it is Big12
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Who would be as valuable as A&M for the BXII?
I think A&M is more important to the future of the BXII than the SEC simply because I’m not sure how much ESPN/Fox money would be there with another relatively big dog out of the conference. The SEC would kill for A&M but would survive without them. They’re big for either conference imo.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Remember the Big12 is not in the SEC's shadow like the ACC is
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand that.
But is a BXII without A&M and replacing them with TCU, BYU, Air Force, Houston, or so on, really just as good as the BXII with A&M? I don’t see any way they’d be able to get $17M/school/year without A&M. The SEC already has their money. The BXII does not. If those schools want the BXII to remain viable, they may need A&M more than the SEC does.
That’s my thinking, that the BXII needs A&M and the SEC very badly wants A&M.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
i was just wondering the same thing
A&M leaves, do they pull in someone? can that achieve the $$ Beebe is promising? or A&M leaving 100% create Pac16?
Who would the SEC take with TAnM without the B12 breaking?
I don’t know of any options out there. And a 14 team SEC is not enough to tear up the ACC, IMO.
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
They have access to compiled numbers and reports we don't.
$$ reports that might say ‘Yes, we take them if we can’
The expansion may be halting at 12 for now, but 16 can surely happen in the near future.
Additionally, we don’t know FSU’s true thoughts and knowledge on the numbers as well. If the SEC wanted FSU to be the 14th after they got A&M tomorrow, would they ditch ACC?
If this site can put such great reports and numbers together, you can be your balls, FSU and Jimbo have as well and know the answer to any SEC invite.
I could only see 4 real options.
VT in the east to even out the divisions.
Mizzou in the west but it splits up Bama/Auburn?
FSU/Miami in the east to even out the divisions.
The first option would make the most sense. New market, good program but no real threat. Most don’t think VT would leave though.
So would Bama/Auburn block a Mizzou invite if they would get split up? Would the MS schools block a Mizzou invite because they’d lose games with one of Bama/Auburn and add Mizzou, and they wouldn’t like that? Mizzou adds a decent sized marketplace and is a decent program.
We all know the story with FSU and Miami. Great programs. Would add good viewership but in a market the SEC alway has its fingers in. Wouldn’t mess up the east/west divisions. Might not get the go vote from UF and a possible veto voting bloc.
UL and WVU make no sense to me at all. WVU is probably a better program than Mizzou, UL worse, but neither adds much market. WV is tiny and UK already has KY, and unlike FSU/Miami and the state of FL, KY is much smaller.
If A&M leaves, I think the BXII breaks. Who could repalce A&M? TCU, BYU, Houston, Air Force?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
TCU would seem to be a logical replacement.
However comma would TCU bother to jump onto a potentially sinking ship?
TCU has nowhere near the following of A&M
Even though they are located in Fort Worth, the DFW market is dominated by Longhorns and Aggies, and then Red Raiders. TCU is a commuter school with very little fan support. That may have changed a little in the last decade, but they don’t bring nearly as much to the table as A&M.
Back in the days of the SWC, the ONLY times their stadium was near full was when they had UT, A&M, or Tech at home. (I grew up a couple miles from the campus).
Logical in geographic terms.
Not logical in economic, imo.
TCU would love to be in the BXII if there were some kind of pact that schools couldn’t leave in the next x number of years.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Yeah I think SI.com has done a better job
Maybe ESPN is ticked that other networks are the ones who are really going to reap the benefits, for once
Expansion
I’m happy to see that someone else doesn’t get it!
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/6/14/1517010/ncaa-conference-expansion-made-simple-nothing-makes-sense
by SeminoleMike on Jun 14, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's ask Randy.
He posts here frequently:
Randy- are you up to being proactive?
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Injury Reports
Although the NFL officially is against gambling, the extensive rules about reporting injuries show that they know how important gambling is to their business. They don’t want coaches hiding injuries. They don’t want the appearance of any impropriety. Gamblers can become conspiracy theorists when they lose. The same information would certainly be useful to anyone betting on college football as well. The NCAA may not want to implicitly aknowledge the extent of gambling that goes on in their sports.
Bingo Mike
That’s why he is doing it. Twitter is helping.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN is on 'skates' with this story
Either Joe Schad or Chip Brown are getting bogus information. A few people believe Brown gets fed questionable info. And IMO Texas is trying desperately to NOT look bad in all this. They got the ball rolling in all this, and they’d probably rather have Nebraska look like they are the ones who broke up the Big 12
by westcoastnolefan on Jun 14, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
Incoming Freshmen
Are players allowed to receive instruction from S&C Coach during this time period?
Yes
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Sooo... Lets string a few assumptions together.
1. Tejas et al DON’T join the Pac-?. They stay in a 10 team big 12(10?) for the TV money promised to them. At least for now.
2. TAnM stays as well since the SEC probably won’t be able to get a second high-value team to make 14 without the breakup of the Big 12(10).
3. Pac-10(12) takes a Utah or some such thing to make 12 for a CCG. Eventually. But they don’t make 16 just yet, and don’t get into the Texas TV market.
With these assumptions in effect… What are the odds of a P12/ACC TV network NOW? I still feel that this is how we will bridge the SEC money gap AND maintain our soon-to-be winning ways.
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
Do you think we'd make money off it considering what we'd have to pay ESPN to get the rights bacj?
I don’t. Everyone in the know agrees ESPN overpaid. I doubt this would be profitable.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I do. Here is why:
First of all, I would still like to see how the SEC expansion situaion would pan out if the Pac-11ish doesn’t expand to 16 and demolish the Big 12. Personally I don’t see any options for them to take with TAnM to match at 14 since Missou has expressed their desire to remain and Kansas won’t leave the Big 12 unless Texas does. And I really don’t believe the ACC will be dismantled in an effort by the SEC to expand to 14. 16, maybe. But not 14. And that logic is simply based off of everything I have read here.
1. Fun ESPN fact: The ESPN contract with the SEC (and ESPN alone) is worth 2.25 bil over 15 years, right? The ACC deal, as has been reported, is worth 1.86 bil over TWELVE years. Now for you non-math majors, that means the ACC is earning 155 mil a year from ESPN versus the SECs 150 mil. Thats 5 million more. Not a huge sum, but I look at it as a token of investment all the same. ESPN will now be invested in the ACC as a whole, and I think that represented image will improve with gameplay.
2. Reference those contracts: ESPNs deal with the SEC was clearly for ALL athletic events. It was hammered out quite clearly in detail. Vanderbilt table tennis will be in ESPN2 for crying out loud. (/sarcasm) The ACC didn’t get such a deal. Not in anything I’ve read, anyway. Which means that the rights to baseball, golf, or whatever are still up in the air. The stuff most folks wouldn’t pay for. And we don’t have to, per our contract, while the SEC still does.
Also per our contract, there is a very specific clause (apparently) that allows for third party venues to purchase broadcast rights. This has to be specifically done because both the ACC and ESPN know that there are only 24 hours in a day and only five or so ESPN channels to broadcast the Vanderbilt table tennis on. So simply put, ESPN won’t be able to use even all the football and basketball rights they own. If they sell them to Raycom or whover, at least they’ll earn SOMETHING from the event. And the contract (apparently) clearly states that ESPNs broadcast of ACC events won’t change much from what they’re at right now. So for whatever reason, ESPN has little interest in increasing the amount of ACC material they will use. Owning it outright or not.
http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/05/17/daily2.html
Which brings me to the ACC Network idea. It shouldn’t be difficult at all (in theory) to purchase the rights to ACC football and basketball events. There would be a price involved, for sure, but if we’re talking about something Raycom or SunSports can afford, it can’t be too hefty. But the key here is a combo Pac-whatever/ACC network buying those rights for additional broadcast material. Some could be live, and some could be post-game rebroadcast for an even cheaper rate. (Duke and such.) These are not hugely cost prohibitive ideas, people. Add to that the fact that all remaining ACC athletics could be used at NO cost and you’ve got a ton of ACC and Pac-whatever material available.
Next is the available market share analysis…
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
I don't think it would sell
and if it did, we wouldn’t make money like we do off the ESPN deal, IMO
ACC is just not an attractive conference and has little fan support.
The ESPN deal includes the other sports like basketball.
I’m sure ESPN would sell some content back to us, for the reasons you state, but it would want the inflated rate it paid, no?, and would it sell us the good stuff?
There might be a clause in there preventing the ACC network idea. I have not seen the deal.
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I said it includes basketball. But ONLY basketball.
It doesn’t include baseball, track, golf, tennis, soccer… These sports ARE included in the SEC deal. Not ours. So the SECs hands are tied more so than ours, IMO.
And we WANT the primo games on ESPN networks simply for the high production value. So does the SEC, Big Ten, etc. But the second-tier stuff the BTN shows is stuff we, under a no-network format, would end up not having shown at all.
And if its not shown AT ALL, ESPN makes no money off of it. So if someone offers to buy it from ESPN for a hundred thou or so, maybe more, at least ESPN gets something. Its simple economics, man.
And the fact that BTN doesn’t show the prime time material that makes ESPNs cut doesn’t stop THEM from earning an additional 20 mil a year per school. Its really something we should look at.
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
Why do you think we could do what the Big10 did? Our fans do not show that kind of interest IMO.
I get the economics, I doubt the demand.
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I'm with the Dutch man.
If the survival of the Big XII (for now, at least) puts a hold on the current expansion craze (well, except Utah or someone to the P12), why not use this lull to plan ahead and strengthen the ACC as much as possible?
I still support approaching ND in a friendly, let’s-just-talk-about-things way. I think they’re an important player to have a foot in the door with – make sure they know we’d like to be an option for them, give them some of the reasons why we’d be a good fit so that they can be mulling it over and (hopefully) start warming up to the idea (even if we’re just seen as the least-distasteful of some unappealing options for them).
We could also do some more exploring regarding an ACC Network (ACCN?) – I love the fact that our ESPN deal doesn’t include those other sports (and that purchasing some FB/BB games would be possible; we could start with the leftover games at first). Since the main concern is demand, why not use some of the league office’s revenue share to study the potential markets? Study the current 12, but add in possible candidates as well (e.g., ND, Pitt, UConn, Syr, Rutg, etc.). If we have some data like this, we could use it to persuade any teams we might want to approach in the (near-ish) future.
We might not bring in 70 cents per subscriber, but what about 50, 35, even 10? With at least 20 million potential subscribers (states of NC, MA, MD, VA, parts of FL, GA, SC) with the current membership (more if we did expand), even a small amount will add up. But, even if the costs of running the network eat up most of the profits, we could still use the network to pump the ACC – show some of our old, great games; talk about the conf’s great history; emphasize the academics; etc. The effects would be small at first, but small drops accumulate. It could be a 24/7 advertisement of the conference.
A network could generate SOME revenue; it could fire a FEW shots back at the SEC publicity train; it could generate SOME extra interest in the conf. – after all, according to the Director’s Cup standings, we have one kick-butt conf overall. Let’s put our baseball, soccer, softball, track, golf, etc. teams on television for a few extra viewers to get interested in the ACC. Long-term, if interest in the conf increases, the number of subscribers and the per-subscriber charge both go up.
And, personally, I’d love to see more ACC stuff. I’d like to see if a network could help us overtake the SEC in revenue (again – we used to pay out more per school, right?). I don’t see it happening any other way.
So, is there any reason we shouldn’t at least study the overall feasibility and potential demand? We might be pleasantly surprised. If we find out there is absolutely NO chance of making money, we don’t pursue it further. If, however, the study shows some solid potential… well, that would be nice.
Also, with the P16 dead, is it time to reconsider a P12/ACC joint network venture?
(I think someone else asked this previously, but here are some thoughts…)
Even the ACC made a lot more money than the Pac 10 did last year. And without the Texas schools, would a P12 network be as profitable as they were hoping?
I like the idea of pursuing the all-day live sports angle. From Noon EST to midnight PST. In non-FB sports, the confs could stage some inter-conf extravaganzas for extra interest (and other sports have tourneys, so a couple tough OOC matches won’t destroy NC hopes).
I think the network should be called the PACC – choose a couple colors (blue is prominent in both confs websites, and since ocean waters look blue let’s use light blue and dark blue): have the P and the top halves of the A and first C be light blue (=PAC); have the bottom halves of the A and first C and the second C be dark blue (=ACC). Maybe even have a map of the USA integrated in the background or as a border.
Anyway, this name and logo recognizes both conferences, and the joint nature of the network – the first three letters (united by the light blue) make one think of the Pac 12; the last three letters (united by the dark blue) make one think of the ACC.
The partially-(more)silly section: possible marketing schemes include “coast-to-coast”; the ACC site has a section called inside ACCess, so the network could tout “Instant PACCess to the Nation’s Proudest Conferences” or some such silliness. We could “PACC-Attack” national tournaments together (with X number of Y teams represented by our two confs: “CWS PACC-Attack! 4 of 8 Teams Hail from the Pac 12 and ACC”). All kinds of fun things we could play with.
this may be worth study, but I'd say there's extremely little chance anyone, anywhere supports this
At FSU, only 3.5 sports charge ticket admission (the half is for women’s bball, where you can get a season ticket for what, $20? haha). What makes you think anyone is going to pay to watch the other 20 sports on TV if they won’t pay to watch it live? Heck, for our mediocre football games, FSU has trouble giving away the south endzone seats.
Because it's not PPV or HBO
If there is enough community interest, the cable companies will package the network. The more interest, the more basic the package (I think the BTN eventually made it onto the basic package – that or the first upgrade). I’m helping to pay for the BTN right now, even if I never watch anything on it, simply because of where I live. Now, how they decided that there was enough community interest (how many people called for it, etc.), I don’t know, but no one ever asked me, “Hey, would you like the BTN?” It just appeared in my lineup one day.
I guarantee an ACCN (or PACC) would be on in Tally (~280k TVs; possibly Jax, Tampa), Raleigh/Durham (for basketball, at least, but that still gets it on the cable bill for 12 months for those 1.1 million TVs; probably other areas of NC), Charlottesville and Blacksburg, VA (~500k; probably other areas of VA, too), and northwest SC (~800k); probably Atlanta (~2.3 million); probably Miami (~1.5 million); maybe Boston (particularly in an expanded ACC; ~2.4 million); maybe DC (~2.3 million); etc.
Would everyone in those areas (and others) watch the network? No. But, if enough people DO want the station, almost everyone in the area will have part of their cable bill go toward the network. Obviously, the less per subscriber we would take, the more areas we’d get picked up in; the balancing act is charging as much as possible while getting in the maximum areas, of course.
Would cable stations in Boston increase their rates 70/50/35 cents a month for us, or would they bump another station to put us on? I dunno. Let’s find out. But 50 cents a month would mean $14.5 million a year in Boston-area subscriptions (70 cents = $20 million; 35 cents = $10 million). Just in Boston subscriptions. Practically equal numbers for Atlanta and the DC areas. Just those three cities alone could generate over $3 million per ACC team per year (at 50 cents) – not factoring in Raleigh/Durham, Miami, etc. (or costs of running the network; I’m not sure if ad sales would cover that or what).
I know Boston is a pro sports town, but would there be enough interest in ACC sports (including BC hockey?) to get on the cable packages? Again, let’s find out. Oh, and when the BTN and my provider agreed to terms, I don’t remember my bill really going up – I think the provider may have bumped another channel that didn’t get watched very much (but I’m not sure; it was a while ago, so the bill might have increased a little about that time).
I would watch that shit hardcore.
So would a lot of people in FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, MD and MA. Think of hockey in Boston, lacrosse throughout the mid Atlantic and baseball from Miami to Virginia. There’s also some great women’s soccer in the ACC, not to mention the ACC is pretty good in track, tennis, swimming and golf.
I would be surprised by any alum who considered themselves a fan of their alma mater’s athletics that would not want the ability to watch ALL of their school’s sports. You would think it’d even be able to help a little in recruiting. A kid who runs track or volleyball won’t get much television exposure in the SEC (it seems to only be football, men’s basketball and softball(wtf?!)). But that student, if from the eastern seaboard, where most ACC students are from, would be able to have their friends and family back home watch them much more frequently.
Anyways.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
ok, perhaps. I just graduated FSU and am a mild sports fan (hey, I'm on here!)
but I’m also a cheapo and don’t like paying for regular cable as it is (that’s what sports bars and your rich friends who love to have couch tailgates are for), and I also don’t live in a region where this has been tried before (ie, I don’t live in NY with the YES network or the mid-east with BTN)….
so now that you have my demographic in mind, I would say, no, I would not want my $30 cable bill raised to $32 so that I can watch Jill’s 200M dash at home.
Well
The BTN only gets 70 cents, so at most your bill would be $30.70 – if the cable company didn’t drop the XYZ channel that no one remembers in order to balance out the ACCN fee.
Plus, if you calculate how much you spend when you eat/drink at a sports bar once a week, you might find it much, much cheaper to pay a $32 cable bill and invite a couple friends over to watch the games. Seriously, you probably spend $10-25 each week (= approx. $40-100 a month). :-)
Watching SC at 6pm EST they put up a graphic that had ACC as the second highest revenue in 08-09
Big Ten was first with over 200million, ACC was 2nd with about 162 and SEC had 161. I don’t assume they have some reliable information. How does this reconcile with SEC’s huge football deal. I wish I had recorded it but I didn’t. I’m sure it will repeat.
If it is true, why are we so far behind financially.
Can I be on Team Gold??
That was in a USA Today article the other day.
I think it was the year before the SEC started its current deals. The USA Today article said that for 10-11 the SEC would jump the ACC but it wouldn’t be by a huge amount. The link is on the site somewhere. I’ll see if I can find it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Thank Ponder This.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2010-06-10-pac-10-revenue_N.htm
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Ok so if they only jump us by a bit, is it the booster donations that put us way behind
Can I be on Team Gold??
Because the key is making up the CBS income gap.
Here is a link to the top 210 viewership television markets in the US:
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp
A previous comment was made that a Texas merger into the Pac-10 would give a PTN six or seven of the top 25 viewer markets. Well, looking at this linked chart, you can see that the ACC also represents well in the top 25 with seven of the top 25 television markets. (Nine if you go so far as top 27.) This should appeal to the potential advertisers on a PTN since, under the current allignment without Texas et al, the PTN would hold seven of the top 25 spots (most of that being California markets).
To double said network into viewership in sixteen of the top 27 television markets in the US would be a rediculous thing to pass on.
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
by DutchFSU on Jun 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's worth looking into if there's no major conference realignment.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I have no idea how successful that would be.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think it would lose money
We would have to repurchase the rights that ESPN paid for at that inflated price.
Then we’d have to sell the rights at an equally inflated price (hoping to get lucky for 2nd time).
JUST TO BREAK EVEN
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just looking at is as if the contract is not signed with ESPN and we can still back out of it.
If we are unable to, then yes, there is no way that makes financial sense.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I think it would be an easier sell to do a deal with ESPN or even TBS to cover a couple neutral site matches between
the conferences- similar to the Chic Fil-A Kickoff Classic. Speaking of Chic Fil-A, that new Spicy Chicken Sandwich is tasty.
FSU the 3rd most desirable team to add to the new SEC if A&M goes
3. Florida State
The Seminoles would be the top pick if adding the best available football program was the goal. Plus, they allow the SEC to remain in an East/West conference division without moving any teams from one division to another. (Moving teams is something we’ll discuss later this week).
But adding the best football team isn’t the sole determining factor because of the territorial issues discussed above. Slive wants to maintain a collegial environment in his league. As if that conflict wasn’t enough, there is a real debate about what strength the Seminoles bring in the television market.
Are Florida State fans really avoiding watching the SEC games as is? Many believe their fans are already watching. Would the Seminoles really bring many more eyeballs to the conference? That’s debatable.
On the flip side, Florida is the SEC’s territorial jewel and taking the two top programs in the state goes a long way toward shutting off the state for the SEC.
As if that weren’t enough, some SEC schools may push for the addition of the Seminoles in an effort to undercut Florida coach Urban Meyer’s ownership of the most talent-rich state in the SEC. Rival schools need the Gators recruiting strength to decline and there’s a school of thought that making Meyer compete for recruits with another Florida SEC power, either Florida State or Miami, would weaken the Gators enough to make a hard push for the Seminoles worthwhile.
Florida State fits the SEC formula: large, powerful state schools with a passionate following. But the Seminoles have to overcome the opposition of the Gators to make their way into the SEC.
That seems unlikely.
(Note, UF cannot block by itself).
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/06/13/if-texas-aandm-is-secs-lucky-13-who-is-14/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:ClayTravisFanHouse(Clay+Travis+FanHouse+Columns)&utm_content=Twitter
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Well, a little vindication on Missouri!
Wish the Big 10 would gobble up Mizzou in the end game.
Bad, bad, feeling about all this.
Here's Missou
1. Missouri
You talk about suing for peace? If A&M bolts for the SEC and Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and likely A&M replacement Kansas all leave for the Pac-16, Missouri is screwed.
Big time.
Maybe the most screwed team in the annals of major college athletics.
With the remaining “Big 12” schools of Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor and Missouri, you tell me what conference in America is salivating for any of those as a package.
Even Conference USA is turning up its nose at some of them.
Would Iowa State even get an offer to the Mountain West?
Doubtful.
My point: Missouri is the best of an otherwise putrid lot.
What’s more, the Tigers bring several major, if unconventional, assets.
a. A solid television presence in a new market
St. Louis is the 21st largest television market in the country. That would be the fifth largest current media market for the SEC. But that’s just part of it. The state of Missouri, which the Tigers dominate unlike any other available state university — that is, there is no fungible alternative at the collegiate level within the state borders — would also be the fifth largest state in the SEC behind Texas, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee.
It’s nearly six million residents are an entirely untapped market.
With Missouri you’d also get a significant reach into the Kansas City media market.
The Tigers aren’t very good at football, at least traditionally, and don’t infringe on anyone’s territoryThis means the addition of Missouri wouldn’t anger anyone in the conference. Can the same be said of Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson or Miami?
That’s a big deal given that Slive has said time and time again that one of the things he most loves about the SEC, a conference with $50 annual membership dues and no buyout should a team depart, is the collegiality among the members.
Many fans focus on the strength of the teams as a determinative factor. Actually, in a league as competitive as the SEC, adding teams is likely to make some teams uneasy because many feel the league is already tough enough. But adding Missouri, especially in football, doesn’t really alter the balance of power in the conference because none of the traditional powers will see the Tigers as a threat.
Add up these factors and Missouri offers the best profile for number 14.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
When would all this happen?
I apologize if that’s been asked/answered a lot… but I haven’t really heard when all this would go down if we were brought into the SEC. If it were 2011/2012 do you think that’s enough time for Fisher and the new staff to make us competitive enough for the SEC?
Also just wanted to say I saw some criticisms of this site earlier in this thread… as a Nole stranded in South Jersey I have to say I love this site and its the best way for me to get good solid info on all our sports programs… so thanks!
Think we need to focus on long term health and not getting 1 or 2 more wins in year 1 of potential SEC play.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad you enjoy!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 14, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Invites would likely be handed out very soon and acceptances asked for prior to July 1st.
And I would think schools would join in 2012. If FSU had 2 full seasons under its belts and 2 full cycles of recruiting, and being able to tell prospective recruits, “You will play for us in the SEC now”, I think we’d definitely be “ready” to join the SEC. And if the SEC expands it’s in our best interest to join.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Are Florida State fans really avoiding watching the SEC games as is? Many believe their fans are already watching. Would the Seminoles really bring many more eyeballs to the conference? That’s debatable.
Does this work both ways? Are SEC fans currently watching FSU? How many more TV sets would now turn to watch the marquee matchups that FSU vs the SEC would present?
I don't avoid watching SEC games, but I do find myself watching more ACC just because of how
it impacts us.
agreed, I'm not "locked in" on SEC games, just the interesting ones.
While I am locked in on aCC games…not including Duke v wake games.
Giddy-up!
That is a very good point.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I guess so.
I really wasn’t following yesterday.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
According to the FSU boxscores attendance this weekend was 12,917.
I can’t blame people for not going. It was well over 100 degrees sitting in the bleacher seats.
Ah, thanks. Will correct.
I thought I put 13K
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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It was rediculous....
I went on friday and lost 2 pounds sitting in the stands….And I drank a powerade bottle 7 times (powerade the first then 6 refills of water) during the game. Awesome to win but pretty unbearable to sit in the stands the entire game.
Team GOLD
I guess you didn't go in 2008 vs Wichita State?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
If heard it was very comparable to 08
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
No I was there for those as well
But back then I was in the grandstand cause I had a friend who bought season tickets so he could get grandstand seats. This time I was out in the sun the whole time. I really feel that when the heat index is above 100 that stadiums should be required to have water coolers and provide free cold water to patrons.
Team GOLD
And yes in terms of heat
It was just as hot then too. The series were pretty close in terms of heat. Only back then we had buster posey so it made life slightly more fun…
Team GOLD
I had grandstand in 08.
But got stuck in like the 5th row up on the 1b side and we didn’t get sun until the middle/late innings. I wanted to cry. I had 2nd row grandstand seats on the 3b side for the regional (shade most the game)and got hosed for the supers.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Neighbors
Sat right near you that series with all the players cramping…“give them the blue water, Gatorade sucks” chants coming from grand stands. I think you mean, we did not get ANY SHADE until @ 4-5th inning depending on game time (brutal heat)…What a great series and great crowd. Does anyone know attendance for that series compared to this past super?
by NoleforLife on Jun 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, no shade.
The sun/heat is still affecting me.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Nothing wrong with 100 degrees...
when the humidity is 15%.
Otherwise, YIKES! I don’t miss it.
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
According to a reputable poster on tharinger...
FSU will not get an SEC invite. He has been maintaining this stance since late saturday night, and just recently added that though FSU passed with 9 votes, this poster alleged that Bama and UF had veto power in the situation and UF excercised its veto.
Can’t say that this is any more credible than any other info that comes out, but this poster claims to have been getting this info from outside the SEC office in Tuscaloosa (its a Bama fan) and has been spot on thus far. Wait and see I guess
Just to add
The fishy about this info is the claim of veto power, as I’m not sure the rest of the SEC would necessarily yield to Florida and Alabama’s will
phaz?
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That claim regarding veto power sounds very dubious.
I can see a scenario where UGA, UF and USC team up to freeze out FSU, GT and Clemson.
They would need a 4th member.
Nine votes is all you need.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I don't consider UL an actual possibility.
UK would have to either be stupid or worried that in 50 years UL might be good enough to join the SEC and try to use their UF/UGA/USC raincheck then.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
What else have they been spot on with?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
UF and Bama weild super secret Veto power other SEC members don't?
What is this, Dungeons and Dragons? Jokers Wild? That is funny as hell.
No kidding.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Eh?

Bring back Jeff Bowden...as a pińata.
by TheNole9Yards on Jun 14, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 18 recs
Rec the hell outta that
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
FUNNYRIGHTTHEREDON'TCAREWHOYA'ARE.
NM
Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)
by PeachTreeNole on Jun 14, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I thought it was brilliant until I got to "-25 Heart/esophegeal strength"...
And then I definitely lol’ed.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Ineffective without Tebow card"
Nice. Although maybe more like “without mobile QB card.” Awesome, nonetheless.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
Pretty low casting cost
Needs more penalty. I’d give it “Only available for 2 turns, then control moves to another player”.
What SEC office in Tuscaloosa?
The only one I know of is SEC HQ in Birmingham.
Place Your Ad Here.
by Jamil Dawson on Jun 14, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
While many of us are sleeping the SEC has been expanding its offices throughout the nation.
I have knowledge from a good source that the SEC is planning a full on invasion of all the other conferences. The source says that once the SEC has full control over college football it will implement its main objective of taking over the United States. As I type, the SEC is building offices next to every state capital building in the US and soon every Governor will be a mere puppet of the SEC. Once this is done, Saban will overthrow Obama and will be the dictator of the UGSECSA (United Greater South-Eastern Conference States of America). Meyer will be appointed as a delegate to the Philippines.
Disclaimer: This might not be true but it was a from a good source (This is not to be taken as mocking TN members with viable sources, just a joke)
"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley
by NOLE09JON on Jun 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have good information that FSU met with the SEC recently.
The SEC offices are not in tuscaloosa, they are in Bham.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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SEC
I tell you what, there will be some bigtime horsetrading if the SEC tries to get to 16. Can’t you just see UF promising UGA to vote against GT if UGA will vote against FSU — same with USC and perhaps KY if Louisville is in the mix.
I think it’s going to be very, very difficult to get to 9 votes on any school that currently resides in the SEC footprint.
I don't even know why UL gets mentioned with those ACC 4.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Mentioning Preston Parker
made me think of how good he would have been in a wildcat formation. Oh well. We’ll never know
He was tremendous at RB against Maryland a few years ago
Incredible athlete, and possibly the most ferocious blocker at WR for us ever. Coaches had to tell him to “ease up” in practice as he was injuring too many kids on the scout team’s D.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
As of now, I don't think anything happens. I do think FSU will be the SEC's top choice when it comes time, and I know the SEC and FSU have had conversations about this.
Think of this latest round of expansion as a test run. The next time the SEC will fire the first bullet.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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So you imagine this next bullet 1 months from now or 1 year from now?
Also, are you lumping the Pac-16 moves yet to come in the test run category?
Giddy-up!
I don't have a timetable. And I don't think the Pac16 comes to be.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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If we are invited and accept we likely wouldn't join until 2012.
Is that enough time?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
We would also be able to use the "SEC" as a recruiting tool those 2 years.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I saw westcoastnole say it first.
I’m just using it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
It probably upsets them to.
Place Your Ad Here.
by Jamil Dawson on Jun 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It does to a point
but then I think we are on equal ground.
Imgine playing through the SEC and then play against the ACC’s 4th best team at the end of the year.
SEC is the best because the have the best coaches because they pay the best because they have the dedication (make those most money) in football.
Man, that sounds like an SEC homer, but I;m not.
hate to rob the thread but this ALA-CLEM game is gettin good on ESPN2
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
Not robbing at all
Clemson on the verge of a massive choke job
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Brad Miller is a stud at the plate but a disaster in the field
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
My fav was Parkers mom crying in the stands...
All us noles fans are jumping up and down for the kid to never step foot on the FB field again! side note how is he a senior BB player but a Junior FB player?
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Jun 14, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He redshirted in football but not baseball
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
makes sense
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Jun 14, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't he enroll for the spring his freshman year and played a baseball season before he played one in football?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
That would make sense to, I was just guessing
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
man that was interesting...
the announcers again were just prasing how well clemson was doing and how they were the best team out there…….i think the best team out there is TCU……
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
and of course we have them first round
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Jun 14, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
ASU is the best team left IMO
Sucks that Arkansas got matched up with them, they were very good this year too
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
ASU just seemed to play 2 innings of BB
right when it counted. TCU only had one bad game and they OWNED ol AUGIE and his boys. I would hate to have been in the TX locker room after that last beat down…
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Jun 14, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ASU actually played 24 innings of baseball and beat a very very good team
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
yeah they played 24 innings but it seemed like
they only showed up for the 10-12.. so that would be 6 innings not 2 but you are correct in saying ARK was a dang good team.
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
by NOLEcasterWX on Jun 14, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Bianci is such a dick.
I am not saying there is no merit to what he is saying, but what is the point of this article outside of being a dig at FSU.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/2010/06/usc-southern-cal-fsu-owes-ncaa-apology.html
Don't link his articles, please.
:)
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
I just find it funny that people hate him, but always link his articles. lol
You’re doing exactly what he wants. I don’t bother reading his stuff.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
That's just lazy journalism.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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…what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis
If I had the energy, I would go back and check the accuracy of the following comment:
I’m pretty sure that, every time a Gator has been arrested (within the last 3 years), Bianchi has subsequently come out with an article that is disparaging towards FSU. He will not report on the blunders of his beloved team until it is convenient to him, or at least not until the buzz has died down.
But I don’t have the energy to research that claim, so I’ll just Bianchize it and say it is 100%, without error or omission, truthful and accurate.
Bring back Jeff Bowden...as a pińata.
by TheNole9Yards on Jun 14, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Bianchi pulled the same junk at Jacksonville (Florida Times-Union) 15 years ago...
I don’t know how he keeps getting hired outside of Gainesville, except that he keeps getting angry people to read his journalism crap.
He's resorted to posting his stories on Rivals message boards during the last year
That’s low
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jun 14, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Qualify?
Have all incoming recruits qualified?
O’Leary is an NFL type prospect at TE; hands, tenacity, and smarts. I am in south Florida and all I hear is “he is crazy not to play at UM”??? Feels he can make it to NFL (ie Shockey, Winslow). This kid wants the ball. Jimbo will have to ensure touches for us to land him…
I am VERY PROUD of OUR 2010 ACC Champion ’Noles! Elite 8 and a trip to Omaha is awesome and MM should be commended for allowing his kids to swing the stick! We proved we can win the 1 run games when it counts and that says alot about a team headed to Omaha (and we know how to small ball if needed). I would not wanna play us right now!
Moxie >——> Swagger!
All are expected to qualify, from what I've read on here.
And just fyi it’s the College World Series. Same thing just has its own name.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
We've been told it would be a surprise if any failed to qualify.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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O'Leary is amazing
Dude made James Wilder (and everyone else) look like a little kid.
He has everything you want in a TE prospect
The recruiting experts are going nuts over him after the camp.
Said that the DB’s almost looked scared to cover him
"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"
by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 14, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I can not stand those things.
BTW Argentina’s starting goalie is former FSU basketball player Diego Romero’s younger brother.
Thanks
I was just trying to emphasize the fact that we are one of the 8 best teams in the country—>Elite 8.
TN is first webpage I open after work e-mail…Keep up the great work guys…twitter has all the rumors floating about the ‘NEW Big 10’ (formerly the big 12)…
ESPN now citing to Orangeblood
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5285680
I always try to avoid just buying into what people here say, and then the monolith proves the editors right by showing how inadequate their college coverage is.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
Horrible presence and articulation by Schad there.
Possibly because his sources were all so “wrong”. And he should just cut that tuft of hair off.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
Here is a good article. I hope we can put all of this expansion talk to bed for at least a few months now.
UT, TAMU and OU have all committed to staying.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/ncaa/06/14/texas.big.12/index.html?xid=si_topstories
At this point I would think we have to feel better. We have the time to build the program up for a few years in the event we do receive an invite to the SEC in the future and don’t have to worry getting left in the dust by an superconferences. Obviously the ball is in the old Big Ten’s court. Now that they have 12 schools maybe they will look to stand pat for a bit and let all of the expansion pandemonium subside a bit.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
This will all last until
the Big ten grabs Missourri. Then there are only 9 teams in the Big 12.
I know everyone is happy the balance of power is still intact, but it makes me ill to see how unevenly teams in the same conference get paid. So did they also guarantee Texas will always get an extra second on the clock when they need it?
Why grab Missouri right now?
They have 12 schools and can have a conference championship. What is the financial incetive for grabbing Missouri? Would their addition not result in the watering down of Big 10 Network payments to all of the other schools? Don’t get me wrong, if they want to go to 16 teams then I think Mizzou is as good of a choice as any. For the time being I don’t know why they just don’t hold pat at 12 schools. Of course with the way this whole conference expansion madness has been going lately I am hoping my words don’t come back to haunt me within the next couple of days.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - John C. Maxwell
Alot of people think they won't
For the very reasons you just stated. Mizzou is getting scuh rood
"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"
by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 14, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
in other CWS news Oklahoma destroyed Virginia tonight
I don’t know much about OU or South Carolina, but if the national seeds mean anything, then ASU has an effective cake-walk to the finals compared to our bracket.
ASU has to be a huge favorite moving forward
Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!
Agreed.
They gotta be pumped that Texas is done.
"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"
by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 14, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched ASU play this weekend.
I think they are clearly the best team left in the tourney. It is going to take a lot to beat those guys.

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