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Review The Preview: Grading College Football News' Assessment Of Florida State

As College Football News rolls out their various season previews of all 12 ACC programs, each ACC Roundtable blogger has agreed to review and critique these reviews. The hope is that we can get the most accurate picture of ACC teams going into the summer. Here is our critique of their Florida State preview.

Sister SBN site BCInterruption.has its review up of the Boston College preview.

One of College Football News' first preview of an ACC school happens to be ours. There's not much in there that we don't already know about this team, but on the whole, they do a really good job of previewing the Noles for the uninitiated.  The author for FSU's preview is Richard Cirminiello.

CFN's 2010 FSU Preview
2010 FSU Offense Preview
2010 FSU Defense Preview
2010 FSU Depth Chart

As always, I give national writers a lot of leeway because it's impossible to nail every intricate detail about every team.  If I miss anything, let me know.  

Richard does a good job re-capping the past few seasons, the conditions that led to the change to Jimbo Fisher, and outlines just how far FSU has to go:

The season will be a success if ... Florida State wins the Atlantic Division for the first time since 2005. In yet another sign of cracks in the Seminole foundation, the program has been relegated to also-ran status in the league's weaker division. That has to change, beginning this year. Man-for-man, who is better in this half of the ACC? Clemson? [This was published before Parker went pro]. Maybe, but the Tigers must travel to Doak Campbell Stadium on Nov. 13 in a pivotal game for both programs.

You can tell Cirminiello has done his research.  He accurately hits on Christian Ponder, the skill guys, and the offensive line.  He says this could be the best offense FSU has had in years.  I agree that this offense could be as good as the Charlie Wars '93 offense, but it was already as good as the Chris Weinke led attack.

Cirminiello gets points from me for actually paying attention to Christian Ponder in spring.  Many national writers have said there are serious questions about his ability to bounce back from shoulder surgery.  Cirminiello correctly notes that Ponder took every snap in Spring and even had extra zip on his passes.  

One issue I did have with his QB evaluation was this:  

Weakness: Red zone passing. A year ago, Florida State was No. 2 in the ACC in passing attempts, yet ranked No. 7 with just 16 touchdown passes. In order for the offense to make a step in the right direction, it's incumbent upon the quarterbacks to maintain their high accuracy rate deep in opposing territory.

FSU scored the most points per red zone trip in the ACC.  FSU doesn't need to throw the ball more often in the red zone.  The 'Noles rushed for 27 touchdowns last year and their QBs were plenty efficient.  

Overall:  good evaluation.  But why only an 8.5?  FSU has arguably the best QB in the country and no team with a QB the quality of Ponder has a backup approaching E.J. Manuel.

On to the running backs.  Cirminiello gets credit for paying attention to Spring ball (with a new staff, that's the best possible source).  He correctly notes that Chris Thompson has a good shot to start this season.  The rest of the preview looks great except for this one point:

... Jermaine Thomas... A bona fide breakaway back, he has outstanding speed...

Jermaine Thomas isn't slow, but he definitely doesn't have breakaway speed.  He's been caught from behind many times and seems to lack that extra gear.  Perhaps that changes a bit this year with FSU's new strength and speed coaching, along with the tutelage of RB coach Eddie Gran.  Cirminiello nails Thomas' other attributes.

I would, however, like to see Cirminiello mention the excellent receiving talents of Thomas, Thompson, and Pryor- all of whom have tremendous hands and have played some receiver.  And he neglects to mention Debrale Smiley and Tavares Pressley, though I don't think many expect them to be major contributors.  The error is minor.

Keep reading for the rest of the review!

Star-divide

I think Richard is accurate in his individual assessments of the wide receivers.  I like that he notes the position labels (Bert Reed as the "X", Jarmon Fortson at the "Y").  And he's paid enough attention to note that Beau Reliford needs to improve his blocking and route running.  

But while his individual assessments are detailed and accurate, I think he misdiagnoses the "weakness" of the unit.  Though that is not entirely his fault.  

Weakness: The backups. Particularly if Easterling has played his last game at Doak Campbell Stadium, Florida State is going to be dangerously thin at wide receiver beyond the starters. Haulstead and Smith might be good ones down the road, but right now, they're a couple of kids with two career catches between them.

I can't agree with this.  FSU returns the 3rd most catches in the ACC (behind Miami and NC State).  Haulstead and Smith didn't play much last season not because they weren't good enough or weren't ready, but because FSU had players in front of them.  Expecting performance from the pair isn't unrealistic.  Both are extremely talented and reports of their development are quite positive.  Remember that Fortson, Reed, and Easterling were all sophomores last season, just as Smith and Haulstead are this season.  I really don't think FSU, which is not a spread team, has concerns about depth at the receiver position.  

I also don't see how Richard can rate this unit as a 7.5 and rate the RBs as an 8.  FSU's receivers are not worse than its backs.

Moving to the offensive line, this is what separates the pretenders from the quality writers.  And Cirminiello nailed it.  I like how he tracks the timeline and progression of youngest offensive line ('08) to best OLine in the ACC (09) to one of if not the best offensive line in the country.  Further, Cirminiello actually got the blocking gradeout %s.  I hadn't seen anyone publish those yet and it adds incredible depth to this preview.   Just a very good job.

 

Defense

Evaluating this defense is a very tough task for many writers covering FSU and it's even tougher for national writers.  I think Richard does a commendable job.  And I think he nails it with this line:

Progress is a certainty, but a complete turnaround with this group is asking too much.

My first issue with RIchard's defensive review is this:

The Seminoles will be looking to rebuild a defensive line that ... and loses three key players from the rotation.

I'm not quite sure who those three players are.  I do know that none were drafted or even sniffed the NFL (despite the contentions of one's family member that he would be a second round draft choice at first).  FSU lost 4 defensive linemen and none of them played very well throughout the entire year.  None are major losses.  I won't go as far as some and say that FSU gained by their leaving the team, but I'm not entirely sure that is far off.    

Other than that, I think Cirminiello did a nice job with the defensive line.  Most people I trust agree this defense is a year away from recovering from the recruiting mistakes and lack of development under the previous staff.

On to linebackers where I think the preview is perfect, except for the rating.  The Linebackers should not have the same rating as the defensive line.  They are much better as a group.

As for the secondary, I think he is accurate in his individual play assessments, but listing Korey Mangum as a loss is a major error.  He's probably too high on Greg Reid's coverage skills at this point.  Everyone expects him to be a superstar defender, but he hasn't done anything yet on defense.  Also, including Justin Bright (unlikely to see the field) and omitting Xavier Rhodes (who Fisher said will play in the NFL).  I also think there needed to be a substantial mention of the change to zone coverage from man coverage.  

Overall Grade:  A    If Cirminiello was a local writer I'd probably give this a B+, but for the best team preview to date to have come from a national writer is pretty surprising.  This is excellent work and I recommend you read through the full 4-page preview.  He even nailed the depth chart to a reasonable certainty.  

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minor edit

My first issue with RIchard’s defensive review is this:

The Seminoles will be looking to rebuild a defensive line that … and loses three key players from the rotation.
/
you didnt block quote, and Im assuming you wanted to.

Im also really glad to hear :

Progress is a certainty, but a complete turnaround with this group is asking too much.

From everything discussed around here, to being honest with myself when I think of the season we will have, I see the potential of being let down by sky high expectations. I just cant help it though. We finally have coaching( I was going to say good coaching, but the sad truth is that bad coaching at some positions wasnt even happening) at every position. We finally have guys committed to winning, not separate agendas.

Anyway, it is really important in my opinion to continually have the voices of reason that keep us from filling the hope bubble to the point where not going undefeated and winning the national championship is reason to be disappointed when looking back on the season.

Nice job Bud, will you all have any more national reviews you will be posting this summer?

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Jun 15, 2010 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

And to clarify

when I saie “what is being discussed here” I meant what some of us who let the inner homer out, not the editors who have been extremely sober in their analysis.

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Jun 15, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

One other nit:

’While the coaching staff will be a little different…"

A little different? Dude, we changed 50% of the coaching staff, not to mention all the additional support staff we hired!

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I was looking at my sig yesterday

and thought to myself, your name makes me want to party.

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Jun 15, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

:)

nm

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

OT: I'm curious to see the results on the Season Prediction 2.0

Any word on when that info will be posted?

Bring back Jeff Bowden...as a pińata.

by TheNole9Yards on Jun 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I do know that none were drafted or even sniffed the NFL (despite the contentions of one’s family member that he would be a second round draft choice at first).

Was this Yarborough’s family?

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jun 15, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Now that you mentioned it

I can’t remember the other 2. I got Thacker and Yarborough. They must not have done much.

by NoleySmokes on Jun 15, 2010 3:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do you all agree with his baromater for success? (winning the Atlantic division)

I like what has been said here, focusing more on the improvements of the team, winning about 8 games. I would love to win the division, but with our schedule, I just want to see competent defense and a stellar offense (cant help myself on that last one.)

Also, I like that he called the schedule brutal. More of that blunt honesty we/I need.

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Jun 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

As do I

Most of his preview was spot on and I, too, think winning the division = a successful season given where we were a year ago.

Place Your Ad Here.

by FloridaStateJay on Jun 15, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Overall

He did a decent job. I agree that it’s almost impossible to cover every single detail of a football team.

As for CP and EJ, I honestly think we will be a 60/65-40/35 Run versus Pass this year. Our O-Line is too good and we have too many good backs not to be a run heavy team. We will pass the ball though.

At WR, Taiwan will be back after the FSU Baseball season ends, for the Football team, the sooner the better, but for FSU overall, it’s great news for the Baseball team, they deserve it, Good luck to them! After Taiwan at WR, we will be very young, but talented. I expect Haulstead or Smith or AJ or Wade or Commack (which didn’t move to S), if not both to step it up a bit if we need them too, not to mention any of the FR. At TE Beau will be better, but call me crazy, but I really like Will Tye. Will has the versatility to play TE or flex out and be a WR, watch out for him in a year or 2!

I think our D-Line will be playing with a hug chip on their shoulders! I’m not expecting them to be the D-Line of 93 or 98-00, but then will be better!

At LB we are solid, but we will more consistent play from Kendell Smith, Jeff Luc and Vince “WILL” push him. I’m excited to see Nigel Carr, but who will back him up, or beat him out? As for Nigel Bradham, nuff said!

The secondary will be talented, but interesting. Based of Gerg Reid’s style of play, FSU playing a lot more zone will benefit him and Lamarcus Joyner. I’m not saying they’re the next Primetime, but big things are expected from them. Ojenije (did I spell that right), is a question mark. He has the most exprience, but probably the least talented. I like him a lot, but if he doesn’t attempt to fill the void left by P-Rob, the door will be open for Harris, Joyner, Rhodes and Allen. There will be very good competition. At Safety, if we remind healthy, we will be very good. I love Nick Moody’s size, speed and strength and I love T-Parks size and range. I Harley will be backup, if not starter. I can’t wait to see Demps and Bright. I’m not saying they will or wouldn’t be any good, but I would like to see them!

Point blank, we should beat Samford. Our season will be defined (win or lose) based on how well we play agaisnt Okalahoma. If we win at Okalahoma, that could spring board us all the way to Miami. If will beat Miami, that win could carry us all the way to UF, assuming we have no major injuries and we stay focused on the team we’re playing that week. I really like our chances against very opponent we play this season.

We COULD be undefeated when we play UF! I don’t think the expectations are too high. We just have to do what we can do, and did it well.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 10:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Season will NOT be defined by the OU game. Not an important game in guaging the success of this year's team.

We COULD be undefeated when we play UF, but an asteroid also COULD strike the earth tomorrow and end all life as we know it.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not expecting a win,

But I am very interested just to see how we play versus a top-level team.

"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley

by NOLE09JON on Jun 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we'll all be interested

But it just isn’t accurate to say that the OU game determines the success of the team. We’re throwing half of the team into the fire in the first real game they’ll play after being completely re-taught football over the course of about 2 months of practice.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope not alot of people are basing their opinions of this team on the OU game

Just silly I’ve heard that more than once. There were just too many changes made in the off-season to say there will be a defining moment that early in the season.

Also, to say beating UM will spring board us all the way to UF, come on, you’ve got BC, UNC, and Clemson in there, not mention the always dangerous Thursday night game @ NCSt and their very good QB.

by karmanole on Aug 12, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this serious?
As for CP and EJ, I honestly think we will be a 60/65-40/35 Run versus Pass this year. Our O-Line is too good and we have too many good backs not to be a run heavy team. We will pass the ball though.

Huh? No. Reverse it.

I expect Haulstead or Smith or AJ or Wade or Commack (which didn’t move to S), if not both to step it up a bit if we need them too, not to mention any of the FR.

Commack moved to Corner. You’re wrong. Incorrect. He moved to DB. Not sure where you got that he didn’t. Please refer to our roster on the left side of the main page.

I think our D-Line will be playing with a hug chip on their shoulders! I’m not expecting them to be the D-Line of 93 or 98-00, but then will be better!

I hate this logic. It implies they didn’t try their best last year. Do you think they didn’t give 100%? I never expect less than 100%

The secondary will be talented, but interesting. Based of Gerg Reid’s style of play, FSU playing a lot more zone will benefit him and Lamarcus Joyner.

Wanna bet Joyner doesn’t see many snaps at all in meaningful game time?

We COULD be undefeated when we play UF! I don’t think the expectations are too high. We just have to do what we can do, and did it well.

Your chances of winning the lottery are only slightly worse than that.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes I am Serious

You must remember, our defense has not shown the abillity to consistently be as good as we’d like. So if we can run the ball more we can control the clock. The best offense for a struggling defense, is a good running game. In the event Taiwan doesn’t return, which is probably unlikely, but our quality “PROVEN” dept is at RB, not WR. I’m not saying our WR can’t get it done, but our chances are probably better. Also, considering the current state of FSU football (money, recruiting, boosters), Coach Fisher only cares about winning games. It doesn’t matter if it’s pretty or not. I meant which ever didn’t move to S. I get those two (Wade and Commack confused), but he DID move to S, not CB. The fact of the matter is that, other than Markus White, our D-Line is young! McCray, though a JR can’t stay healthy, McDaniels is a SO, along with Jenkins all played on a D-Line last year that got blasted. I’m just being honest! I’m not saying they didn’t give 100%, but their 100% wasn’t good enough! Joyner could see a lot of time. The good thing about him is, he’s not that far behind in the learning curve. I’m not saying he starts from day 1, but he’s going to play and play oftend, maybe on SP at PR or KR, but technically those aren’t snaps.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coach Fisher cares about process, not wins

And with the best QB in the country we will definitely not be running at that ratio.

The fact of the matter is that, other than Markus White, our D-Line is young! McCray, though a JR can’t stay healthy, McDaniels is a SO, along with Jenkins all played on a D-Line last year that got blasted. I’m just being honest! I’m not saying they didn’t give 100%, but their 100% wasn’t good enough!
So… you want them to give more than 100%?

Joyner could see a lot of time. The good thing about him is, he’s not that far behind in the learning curve. I’m not saying he starts from day 1, but he’s going to play and play oftend,

Joyner is WAY behind the learning curve because he hasn’t played defense in 2 years. Brooks is ahead of Joyner’s curve.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

He clearly has a good grasp on the program and what Jimbo's philosphies are

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't go

that far to say that Fisher doesn’t care about wins, but I understand the importance of the process.

by Polk Nole on Jun 15, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, BLOWOUTS!!

that long forgotten concept. After 4th Qtr nail-biters with: Troy, Citadel and Jax St.

I’d almost forgotten about FSU posting a “blowout.”

by Diablo_2 on Jun 15, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

62-10 against The Citadel not good enough for you?

You don’t like waiting until mid-3rd quarter to pull our starters?

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn Bud

A little snappy today, huh? Poor guy was just trying to get excited about the Noles team this year. While I thoroughly enjoy this site, not everybody is a perfectionist when it comes to predicting won/loss records, describing defenses, predicting freshman participation, etc. Sometimes, it feels good to just dream big. I know my expectations are probably a little high too, but if they don’t achieve greatness this year, oh well. We, FSU fans, are starving for some results after suffering through the last 8 or 9 crappy years. Let the man dream!

by NoleySmokes on Jun 15, 2010 3:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

If you click on the guys username

you can see his previous posts.

as jasonole said this has slowly been coming to a head lol

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ack!!!

I’m sorry, Nova, but this kind of thinking really scares me:

We COULD be undefeated when we play UF! I don’t think the expectations are too high. We just have to do what we can do, and did it well.

If people really expect an undefeated or 10-win regular season, then it is highly likely that people will be very disappointed in Jimbo Fisher and company’s first year. Considering just how bad things had gotten around here, that opens Fisher up to enormous pressure and extremely unfair criticism.

It will take another year for us to be highly competitive; possibly even two (but I think we’ll be very good in 2011).

Expect about 8 wins. Anything else is very, very delicious icing. But let’s not have expectations so high that Jimbo would unfairly be viewed as a disappointment in his first year.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not

Saying we will be 10-0. However realistically look at our schedule. We may have some injuries, but so will our opponents.
http://floridastate.rivals.com/schedule.asp

Out of all the teams on our schedule that beat us last year, how many really gave it to us? I only see 1. We still have to show up and play, nothing will be given, but we can be 10-0, that’s all.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

By whom???

They also predicted us to lose by 21 to BYU last year too!

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Common sense, vegas, etc

Please give me the % chance you think we win in each individual game.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps we should greet every poster with enormously over-inflated expectations imediatly with...

“hmm…so give us your odds for each game if we played that team 100 x”

“So that’s an x% chance of victory”

“Lets do the math…tada! 8 win season….with no bad luck.”

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do it the way we do, as authored by Bud

Give us the % chance we win each game on this season’s schedule.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um

How many teams did we blow away? NC State? Maryland? UNC? JAX ST??? Nope x4.

We were a couple plays away from 9-10 wins last year, sure – but we were a couple plays (or seconds) away from about 3 wins, too.

Looking at our schedule, we COULD get beat by: OU, UM, BC UNC, Clem, uf (not including NC St AND Mary whom we beat by 3 last year).

Again, keep the expectations realistic. We were very close to not making a bowl game, remember. We were less than a minute away from losing to Jax St.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good point about our "wins" last year,

The MD game was rough

"FEAR is just the Opening ACT!!!" Coach Coley

by NOLE09JON on Jun 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will contend that the OU game means absolutely nothing

Stupid scheduling decision that won’t be made again when we have a team capable of making a national title run. Compounding the stupidity of the scheduling is the fact that this will be the first real opponent for a brand new defense under a brand new regime. I hate this game with a passion already.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

It seems unfortunate. It COULD end up to be great, if we manage to pull it off. A few early big wins did wonders for UM last year. Even a close loss would raise some eyebrows, in our favor.

A blowout loss would really suck, though, and would not be a good image to project. Anything else, though, can be turned into a positive, I think (well, not that even a close loss is good for the record, but in terms of regaining some respect).

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but UM kind of collapsed, too

Even the early wins didn’t result in a 10-win season. There are too many possible pitfalls on the schedule to think we’ll win more than 8 (with a shot at 9, perhaps; but an unlucky break from 7).

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see us at 6 wins with bad luck

My percentages have netted a 7 win season. I will be very happy with 8 wins next year. I have absolutely no faith in an undefeated 2010 season.

by Caveman Mafia on Jun 15, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably better for your health

to have no faith for an undefeated 2010 season…

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Jun 15, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, if we get urban to cheer for us this year

We might be able to finish him off.

(Okay, okay, I’ll go sit in the corner. That was mean.)

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have it on the highest authority

that Urbie sold his everlastin soul to the devil. To make young men believe him, coach football, and live a terribly long life despite health conditions…and to play the guitar.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Jun 15, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The OU game will be what induces "Sky is falling" rhetoric from TN members

In reality, it will probably just be another loss on the schedule. The Miami game will be a much better baromter to gauge the progress of our new defense. But the contest against the Sooners will bring out the pessimist and Bowden apologists in full force. The reaction to the result will be more frustrating than the expected result itself

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And

The Miami game is the one that actually matters. The division is the only thing that should be held as important by fans this year. What sucks is that the OU game will receive all the national attention, and fans will be completely off-base in their analysis of this team when we’re beaten.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

westcoast

Rec. TN should bookmark this comment and bring it back for the monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday and monday following the OU game.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

My Response

to the Bowden apologists (even if FSU gets thumped) will be, “Imagine how much WORSE it would have been then with the old coaches.”

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Jun 15, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

We

Are very capable of beating OU. However we can’t get into a shootout with them. Thus we control the clock.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you figure

There O-Line is suspect, as they were last year. They lost their starting DT, OT, CB, LB’s and S. Yes they do have good skilled postion player returning, but we are not out matched. This game will come down to turnovers!

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their LBs > Our LBs

They have an excellent secondary and a very good DLine as well.

Basically, you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to OU and a lot of people have shown how underrated this OU team is.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

They're young

Look again. You have problem with anyone who doesn’t 100% endorse what you say or for that matter think. Well I guess you have a problem with me, but I know what I’m talking about.

http://oklahoma.scout.com/a.z?s=146&p=9&c=16&yr=2010

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

with that ridiculous response

I’m now seeing a big correlation between NovaNoleJordan and the NoVaNoles who posts on Scout.

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

No way...

A) This guy hasnt once used any profanity. Stats show that Scouts Nova curses 2.34 times per post

2) Scouts NoVa lives and breathes college football. He knows exactly how difficult it will be to beat OU.

D) Scout NoVa is on the Miami and Va Tech boards right now. He wont shift into FSU mode till 3 Est

Although hes definitely got his enemies, Scout NoVa > TN Nova…no offense to either, of course

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I've been thinking about this though...

I mean, last year BYU beat Oklahoma on a neutral field. And we all know what we did at BYU so…

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

well since Ole miss beat Florida in 2008, and lost to South Carolina in 2009, and South Carolina beat Clemson, and Clemson beat Miami, and Miami lost to UNC, and UNC lost to FSU. So based on all of that, FSU will go undefeated!

by mhauer on Jun 15, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Using this method

I have deduced the following:

Sooners were cheating homesteaders that were “given” land tracts from the U.S. government in Oklahoma. This land came from several Native American tribes, chiefly, the Seminole Nation. Now if I’m following MattD’s train of thought (and I think I am) our Seminole football team will be reclaiming this land for the tribe. Mother of God…..

by Caveman Mafia on Jun 15, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So, uh

Is the OU game now a home game for us? That might increase our % a little…

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with Bud on this one.

Think back to our dynasty years. We lose Marvin Jones, Derrick Brooks steps up. Deion Sanders leaves? Hey, there’s T-Buck to step in. Etc.

OU has far more depth at this point than we do. They’ve been “elite” for a decade – they suffered some injuries (including to their Heisman winning QB) and stuff and stumbled a bit last year, but there’s no reason to think they’ve taken a big step down from where they’ve been for quite some time.

As you said, I could be wrong. I hope I am and that we beat OU. I’ll gladly say, “Hey, look at this! I really didn’t expect that!” (But I’ll also say, “Alright, let’s hanker down again, because UM started hot last year.”)

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Some of those stumbles were attributed to bad luck

and likely won’t be repeated. OU is a top 3-5 team and a legit title contender. If we play them within 7 I’ll be pleased (as long as we score more than 2 this time of course).

Place Your Ad Here.

by FloridaStateJay on Jun 15, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why can't we get in a shootout with them?

That seemed to work well for us last year. I like our chances in a shootout, LOL.

Conversely, I’m not sure the D could save the day in a tight defensive battle. I’d trust the O, at this point, to win the game more than the D. And “controlling the clock” still requires that the D stop the opponent on the next series, otherwise we’re tied up again. So the O would have to score, again. Etc.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heisman candidate at QB, I'm for the shootout...

If our D can at least stop them from scoring TD’s in 10 seconds on big plays and force some damn FG’s, our Offense shouldn’t need to control the clock.

by karmanole on Jun 15, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meaning

Building momentum, that carries from week to week! In coaching, it’s easier to take from the loses and build on, than the wins.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Undoubtedly

But more important to build upon is the way in which we play during the OU game. We could play well and get blasted by Oklahoma, because we are that outmanned. They have great talent that has been in a stable system for years. They should and very likely will beat us.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

They’re young ( I mean like FR, RS FR and SO young) and talented at the skilled postions!

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

They have to senior DL that are better than any of our DL

2 JR LBs and a damn good SR C in Quinton Carter, combine that with “talented at the skilled” positions and they beat us

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

No they don't

They have 1 SR DT. Just because they are JR’s and SR’s does not mean they’e good.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

McFaland

Is actully a RS FR, I think he was hurt a some point last year. Either way he’s you too. I’ll put Nigel Bradham up against any LB in the Nation.

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are out of your mind

Bradham is talented but has no idea how to play in a scheme

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You better mean because he hasn't been taught yet

and not be attempting to point to any type of deficiency on his part. Cause those could be fighting words come Thursday.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bradham?

That ought to do it. Nothing to else see here….

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

They really expect JaMarkus McFarland to break out this year now that McCoy is gone

It’s debatable who’s better between him and Jacobbi but folk refuse to understand how loaded Oklahoma is. I fully expect them to win the Big 12 this year. They bring more back the Texas definitely with them losing Colt, Lamarr Houston, and Kindle

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

and SR DE Jermy Beal, preseason Big 12 1st team

They are stacked with more talent and experence, how you fail to see that is crazy

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention a stable program

of coaching and development that they have played under their entire careers.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Boom DK

You beat me to it I was going to say the same thing about the fact that they have all been with the same coaches and same system for at least one year. All of our D guys are working on 6 months.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

They also have a coachong

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

They also have a coaching staff that is top notch

Good coaches who recruit good talent can beat you with that talent, young or experienced…

Another nugget often overlooked by those who feel Oklahoma is “too inexperienced”

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

is their O better than ours?

Is their D as good as UNC’s last year?

I see what NovanoleJordan is saying.

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their offense could be better than ours. Doubtful but probably not far behind it…especially when going up against our D.

by evenflow58 on Jun 15, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

those are 2 different things.

Either their offense is better than ours or it isn’t. Bradford would have been the equal of Ponder; their back-up isn’t. Our OL is one of the best, if not the best, in the country. We are strong at RB and WR. Our OC braintrust is one of the best. What makes OU equal or better?

Our D is essentially young. So is much of theirs. Again, is it better than UNC’s, because we lit up that D last year. I’m not conveinced it is.

The obvious issue, as always, is whether our offense matches up better against their defense, than their offense does against our defense. I’m certainly not ready to say that’s true.

However, I believe our O will be significantly better than theirs by Game 2. A shootout would serve us well.

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

related but not identical issue--

is the D scheme and alignments that Mark favors than same as or different from Bob’s? Are there significant differences in how each plays a zone? How much will each be able to predict what the other will do?

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is the Stoops advantage:

Little Stoops knows big Stoops better than big Stoops knows Jimbo?

nevermind…

by jasonole59 on Jun 15, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Close

I was thinking that Stoops3 knows Stoops1 better than the other way around.

Also, Stoops3 hungrier than Stoops1 and something to prove against big brother.

And Stoops2 favors Stoops3 over Stoops1 and helps Stoops3? Ok, maybe not…

by FSUjab on Jun 15, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps the knowledge

I don’t buy that one puts more effort than another because I don’t have any reason to believe either gives less than 100%.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

So there is no motivation in sports?

Someone who has already reached a pinnacle in his/her career may no longer be giving 100% (see Bowden, Andrews, Amato, et al.)

by FSUjab on Jun 15, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with those examples

but Stoops was out visiting other programs, recruiting, etc. He’s still young and I don’t have any reason to think he’ll be giving less than 100%.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the only way you'll be able to 'judge' if their O is better than ours...

Will be based upon each team’s defensive performances. From a starting point of: Really good defense + successful program + home game, its going to be very tough if not impossible to witness our offense outperform theirs given each of the defenses they will be facing.

IF we can get SUPER special teams play and a couple bounces go our way, then we’ve got a real chance at victory in Norman. But IMO offense v. offense predictions are going to be in OU’s favor hands down.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Lord

Think of it like this.

 We are playing North Carolina’s Defense (as in top 10 in the country)

But instead of UNC’s horrendous offense (which torched our defense until good ‘ole Butch went uber conservative) we are playing an offense not unlike our own. Better big-time receiver, better big-time running back, with a smart and accurate QB. Their OL isn’t as good as ours but our DL is about equal or slightly less than them.

OU Defense >>>>>>> FSU Defense
OU Offense << FSU Offense

Therefore, we say this:

OU Offense >>>>>>>>> FSU Defense

OU Defense <<< FSU Offense

Oklahoma wins at least 60% of the time

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where's the disagreement?

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

it was there. Apparently an entire comment war escalated and and a lot of ridiculously stupid comments were deleted. They definitely did not add to the discussion and it was just ppl talking BS

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roger

I’d love to see the vault where all of the deleted comments are held. I know Ryno’s got at least one that has a photo comparing someone from our bball team with Chris “Smokey” Tucker.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is their D better than UNC?

I can’t say for sure. It’s up their though. However, their offense is a whole hell of a lot better than UNC’s. The flat out terrible plays that UNC’s O made last year, we would not see from OU. Our stalls in the 1st half would have been magnified as OU would have scored more points in the 1st half. We would not have won that game.

So figure this year, we are going up against a top tier Defense AND a top tier offense.

by Dre Clark on Jun 15, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could of sworn you said that you were a coach correct? If so then come on you should know damn well that miracles cant be worked in one off season. We will be better next year that point is not in question to me, but better doesn’t have to mean better record. Come Sat I am going to want to win them all that is simply the fan in me, the realist in me says we can beat Oklahoma but probably wont.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

slightly off topic, and I respect your opinion here, but

do you by any chance post as as NoVanole on the Scout board— the same NoVanole who, when confronted with an article on this site refuting novanole’s postion, said this site and the statistical analyses by Bud were a bunch of crap (although stronger language was used)- that Novanole?

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly, he has been asked that before and said he said he was not the same person, but I'mma gonna let him answer.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hope not.

As I recall, that NoVaNoles said he reads everything on TN, and the comment i’m thinking of was more that he thinks we’re wrong about Shannon. He likes to pump up the Canes and hate on VT at every opportunity, and gets pretty belligerent and scattological when folks disagree with him. I haven’t seen that from NovaNoleJordan. The fact NovaNoles is allowed to rant on Scout as he does is a flagship example of the difference in quality between these boards.

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

He pays money to Scout to. oi e

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 2:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Use the ignore bi

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Apologies for the mobile reply fail on my part

Sorry Fiesta, not to get too far off topic, but I disagree.

A) Scout has an ignore button feature. Feel free to use it. It’s pretty easy. One click, no more NoVa. I use it quite often.

2) What do you want Scout to do? Ban him? Screw themselves out of $120 a year? That’s good business. Maybe they just expect us all to act like adults and ignore the members we don’t prefer to listen to.

D) He’s obviously not here to defend himself, so please cut the 16 year old girl behind the back smack talk. You’re coming off as an incredible suck up as well.

Taco) Sorry for the rant, but I found that post in incredibly poor taste…

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

16 yo girl?

LOL!

I just don’t want pinheads from other board spewing their stupidity here.

Does that hit a little too close to home for ya’?

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 16, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

And you should know by now, Randy,

that what you “find in incredibly poor taste” doesn’t interest me in the slightest…especially when you’re “sucking up” to a belligerent poster who lurks here, there, and everywhere :)

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 16, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

That said, sorry to offend your sensitivities.

Yeah, my witch hunt was a little lame.

Not as lame as someone trashing this site on another board and them coming here to pretend to have a friendly discussion.

Not as lame as posting under someone else’s name.

But lame, nonetheless, and I apologize for it to anyone else offended.

Apparently, Ann was wrong. :)

by FiestaNole on Jun 16, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'n not

He’s NoVaNole, I’m NovaNoleJordan. I respect his passion though

by NovaNoleJordan on Jun 15, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

1) Greg Reid hasn't done anything on defense?

I agree he is spotting in coverage and doesn’t have Dion like make up speed – but I do recall the BYU game – that was something – so perhaps you say – Outside of one play against BYU, he hasn’t done anything – which still omits a few other good plays.

And 2 – He lost me when he said Magnum was a loss

by 93noleman on Jun 15, 2010 10:25 AM EDT reply actions  

His role was a freelancer as a nickel corner last year

Which he did well. He hasn’t proven himself to be reliable in a base defense, though.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Defensive depth chart

He has Jenije and Kendall starting. Not only that, Vince Williams is listed as Bradham’s backup at WLB. I know the linebackers were cross trained during the spring practice (For good reason), but I would think projecting him to get much playing time on the weakside is a bit off.

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Jenije, IMO is much better than he is given credit for

I personally think he has a breakout year and becomes our most effective DB.

by fsuclipper on Jun 15, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree mostly

It is going to be hard to predict CB play this year given the shift in scheme. A CB in man-to-man is about getting and staying in the receiver’s hip pocket, with almost no emphasis on reading the play (I actually thought Patrick Robinson read plays pretty well for playing in a man scheme, especially as a senior). We’re going to need bigger smarter corners to sit down in a zone and read the play instead of the player.

Still worried about the deep coverages when a safety plays deep and the CB plays underneath (e.g., Cover 2 zone). Fortunately, our base D should be Cover 3, with multiple looks out of our front 7.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Reid and Rhodes outperform Jenije in the spring?

Pre-season camp will obviously be used to solidify starting spots. But sorry, I feel like the secondary as a whole will have better upside with a rotation of Rhodes, Reid, and Harris as our top three corners. Kendall may have been a ‘victim’ of Amato but at this point his previous play doesn’t inspire much confidence for me personally

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Based on what (Jenijie)?

I believe all had their moments.

I’m very sure Kendall will be our starter at mike.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think he'll be more effective this year?

My only concern was his lack of size last year. He seemed to get caught up in the wash a lot.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jun 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think one of the biggest things for a linebacker and anyone else in an athletic venue is not taking false steps. That was one of if not his biggest problem last year and now that he is learning to watch film and READ a play(for the first time and hes a senior WOW) we will see a huge improvement out of him. I am sure we can all remember last year being like WTF is he doing that guy just ran right past him that one little false step was the culprit of him being a half step behind.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Always here just stopped posting felt like I was causing arguments and that wasn’t my goal. Yet some things just have to be commented on haha.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Arguments are good

Especially if you can throw Frank or MattD under the bus.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have learned to avoid commenting since logic and reasoning are not my strong suit.

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jun 15, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes Frank I like it.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

nonesense; that was quite logical

but where are the fart jokes?

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are right (again)

Kendall looks like he can fill out to be a perfect Mike LB.

by pollynole on Jun 16, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't Jenijie projected at weak side CB?

I ask because my feelign is if he and Greg Reid are on the same side I think Reid edges him out to start.

My understanding is Xavier Rhodes, Allen and mike harris will duke it out for Strong CB.

Help me here.

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I very well could be wrong but I think Jenijie is your safest bet to start at corner this year. He is a guy that just gets looked over or killed time and time again by fans. Not speaking of you truecolors you didn’t try and kill him, I am so frustrated by people who rip this guy. We recruited a corner to play a man scheme when anyone who new anything could tell you he was best suited for a zone based scheme. You can look all over the NFL and find really good corners who if put into a man scheme would fing be exposed.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

But don’t him and Greg play the same side? I can’t remember. Maybe it was Jenijie/ Rhodes, Reid/Allen?

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure

The rotations were Reid/Rhodes and Jenije/Allen. But I could be wrong.

by Dre Clark on Jun 17, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

You may be right but...Greg was Spring ractice defensive MVP.

My gut and these indications lead me to believe that by the time its September Greg’s won the job, both will play minutes.

Also, While Reid played very little CB snap I read that he was closed to tied for batted balls and INTs

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya good points truecolors a lot of reasons to believe that Reid indeed will be starting based on what you have read and seen through spring. I think Reid and Allen were together with Jenijie and Rhodes being together in the spring if I remember correctly.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm only worried about StrongCB I feel Rhodes is the current leader and he has no experience.

Harris COULD jump in and steele it sense he’s been in a multiple zone scheme (he could figure things out more quickly than Rhodes in year one.

Rhodes is the most elite strong CB but he turned guys loose too quickly and in man to invisible safteys a few times in the spring game alone. (maybe just a bad day, but if he does that against OU???)

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think when Harris gets here he will turn some heads

if he has been preparing himself before he arrives.

I really liked the film I saw on him and he seems like he will be our most mature/experienced corner on the team given his familiarity with the scheme

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta figure if Stoops likes him

we all will like him.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I didn't know Harris was a JUCO AA at CB

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Spear, he's a good candidate to move to safety

[insert crazy emoticon]

"Dear Angel Hernandez and Joe West. You Suck. Please Resign. Sincerely, Everyone"

by Randall W. Spetman on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't rule that out... we need help there.

but we also need SCB’s that fit the scheme and he certainly does. He and Rhodes will look like body doubles in uniform.

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is perhaps the best news I have heard

There are no character/grade issues? Just wondering with the JUCO thing.

by pollynole on Jun 16, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

We expect him to be in

There could be a week delay because these JUCOs are notorious for taking forever with grades, but we expect him in.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 16, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Search function ;)

Just messing with you. Saban liked him a lot that situation just didnt work out and we are lucky to have him.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bama's depth at CB was such that they wanted a JUCO CB to come in right away, right?

I thought it was. If so, that’s a major coup for us and Stoops.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

About the WR/RB ratings

I don’t mind the RBs getting a slightly higher rating – he says that we have 4 RBs who could carry the starting load. Do we have 8 WRs that could be considered safe bets as starters (this 4-deep positional comparison does not, of course, take the FB position into account; but do we have 6 sure-starter quality WRs?).

As he said, the FR/SO WRs haven’t proven anything on the field yet – most of the RBs have (and, as pointed out, he doesn’t even mention Pressley and Smiley, though he probably accounted for them in his rating). I guess that’s why the slightly higher RB rating didn’t bother me.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Fair enough

Though I don’t think you need the depth at wr that you do at rb because WRs aren’t often hit.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

True in most cases...

But although I would never call us a spread team….we run a lot of 3 WR sets with a slot guy so although there are only 2 “starters” listed, there are really 3 WRs that get significant snaps and catches (last season it was Owens, Reed, and Fortson, I’m leaning towards Reed, Fortson, and Smith this season). Even if you spinkle in a little Easterling and Haulstead if you please and that is 5 WRs I trust for 3 spots: 5/3 = 1.67 = Not that much depth

On the other hand, we have 6 legit options for at most 2 RB/FB spots, and usually just one RB in the game at one time (6/2 = 3.00). But for the sake of argument, really it is 4 RBs (Thompson, JT, Ty, and Pressley) and 2 FB (Lonnie and Debrale): There average of 4/1 and 2/1 = still 3.00 = Plenty of depth

*DISCLAIMER: This is not an attempt at real math or statistics, just numbers to illustrate my point : )

by TheMarchingChief on Jun 15, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad someone else noticed the J.T. breakaway speed thing

Nothing against Jermaine, who I like, but when I read the article last week, I immediately thought Cirminiello must not have been watching the same games I did.

I’m with you on the QB ratings: I don’t see how we aren’t a 9.5 – 10 unless he is grading on the Joe Montana/Steve Young talent, depth, and accomplishment scale. I’d be interested to see how they graded Alabama at RB with Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson because it’s a pretty analogous situation.

by BayNole9 on Jun 15, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Can you name the backups for

Mallet?
Kellen Moore?
Terelle Pryor?

That’s my point. Either grading as a unit or as an individual it is still low IMO

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pryor = Bauserman

Only reason I know that is because Bauserman is from Tallahassee Lincoln and I’m buddies with his brother.

by amcconna on Jun 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think the breakaway speed mentioned is more perceived due to our running style?

I have to admit, JT doesn’t look like a burner but the read, one cut and north south running style makes it look like he is flying at first. While a lot of the offense is moving somewhat east or west…the defense slides to adjust and when JT goes in a straight line against that….he looks to be moving so much faster than everyone else. It is only when the defensive adjustments are made and pursuit begins that you realize that a lot of players catch him relatively easily if they have any speed at all.

by diablonole on Jun 15, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can name AJ Highsmith

And that’s probably only because it’s an in-state rival. I guess Mitch Mustain too, but USC’s qb unit as a whole hasn’t really done much anyways.

Honestly, for as much as I follow football, I couldn’t even tell you who UF’s new backup is.

by BayNole9 on Jun 15, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Trey Burton I think

Just thought I’d take a stab at it. LOL

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't this just about everything? LOL

“Weakness of the defense: Pass defense, run defense, pass rush, interior size, third down defense, red zone defense”

by TheMarchingChief on Jun 15, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

WR
Remember that Fortson, Reed, and Easterling were all sophomores last season

How could I forget that all three were SOPHMORES last year. That’s grown-ass-man impressive.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Saying last year's offense was the same as Weinke's is a reach to say the least.

Our offense was good last year, however it was not that good. Let’s see more consistency before we say our offense is national championship and Heisman caliber.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Our offense would've been perceived much better if we actually had a competent defense

No one pays much attention to the offensive production of an overall mediocre team unfortunately.

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Valid point

And I do like the article linked below.

I am willing to admit, though, that our offense’s early eggs against JaxSt and USF (and even the 21 against BC) would make me hesitate to take it over the 99 offense. Weinke, Warrick, etc. were explosive and only had one down game (a 17-14 win against Clemson). It scored 30 against uf. I know we were missing our QB and best OL, but this year and recent years against uf would also make me want to choose the 1999 one over last year’s.

After all, even the article says that last year’s offense was the best SINCE Rivers’s and Weinke’s.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

21 against BC is not an egg

That’s a top 10 defense on the road when we were backed up all the time.

I won’t take it over 99. Will over 2000.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought we were talking about the 99, not 00

KLex posted the 99 results (though I guess Weinke’s Heisman was 00).

I understand that 21 against BC isn’t exactly an “egg” – I meant to qualify that by the “even” (though it’s not as obvious as it was in my mind). Though 21 is a little disappointing when you average a lot more and the D gives up 28, LOL.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

KLex posted the 99 scores above.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the article that I'm not sure KL has read made a statement regarding the 2000 offense, not the 1999 offense.

And since Weinke played on both teams… well….

KL twisted the discussion and posted the 1999 stats.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

But where does KLex say s/he is talking about the 00?

That makes the article not exactly relevant, since it does not talk about the 99 offense. In fact, a couple of KLex’s posts say 1999 (though any refs to the Heisman would indicated 00).

There’s some confusion, perhaps, at work here. It makes it worse considering the disparity in the team talent, defensive performances, schedule strength, etc. between the years in question.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops, never mind

I got lost in the forest of posts. I see that KLex did indeed first reference the 1999 offense (which is what I saw), but that the articles above and linked on this page mention the Chris Weinke led offense (of 2000).

I see where my mistake was made. I’ve been checking in and out and I got lost in the mass of posts, LOL.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

How dare you!

Houston is a nice lady!

Your language is offensive!

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, for sure.

I bet Weinke’s offense would have been stalemated by the vaunted USF team we played. 19 points against Jax state that took an int by our defense at the end of the game deep in JSU territory to cap a win at home. I am sure Uf would have taken a knee in the third quarter because Weinke’s offense would not have been able to move the ball.

 Here is Weinke’s results for 1999:

 8/28/99 1 Louisiana Tech W 41-7 Tallahassee
9/11/99 1 #10 Georgia Tech W 41-35 Tallahassee
9/18/99 1 #20 NC State W 42-11 Tallahassee
9/25/99 1 North Carolina W 42-10 Chapel Hill
10/2/99 1 Duke W 51-23 Jacksonville
10/9/99 1 #19 Miami (FL) W 31-21 Tallahassee
10/16/99 1 Wake Forest W 33-10 Tallahassee
10/23/99 1 Clemson W 17-14 Clemson
10/30/99 1 Virginia W 35-10 Charlottesville
11/13/99 1 Maryland W 49-10 Tallahassee
11/20/99 1 #3 Florida W 30-23 Gainesville
1/4/00 1 #2 Virginia Tech W 46-29 New Orleans

Here are the results of 2009’s offense:

2009 Football Schedule and Results
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
September 7 Miami (FL) L 38-34 0-1 (0-1)
September 12 Jacksonville State W 19-9 1-1 (0-1)
September 19 at No. 7 Brigham Young W 54-28 2-1 (0-1)
September 26 South Florida L 17-7 2-2 (0-1)
October 3 at Boston College L 28-21 2-3 (0-2)
October 10 No. 22 Georgia Tech L 49-44 2-4 (0-3)
October 22 at North Carolina W 30-27 3-4 (1-3)
October 31 North Carolina State W 45-42 4-4 (2-3)
November 7 at Clemson L 40-24 4-5 (2-4)
November 14 at Wake Forest W 41-28 5-5 (3-4)
November 21 Maryland W 29-26 6-5 (4-4)
November 28 at No. 1 Florida L 37-10 6-6 (4-4)
January 1 vs. No. 16 West Virginia* W 33-21 7-6 (4-4)

You need to learn that statistics only tell a portion of the story. Granted, they are fun for a while, but focusing soley on statistics will not give the whole picture. The 1999 offense had a superior oline, superior QB, superior wr’s, and maybe similar, if not superior, rb’s. Weinke, P-Dub, Minnis, and the Oline were all better than our 2009 group.

Now, does this mean the 2010 squad cannot show the consistency to measure up to the Weinke led squad? Of course not. let’s see how they handle lesser opponents the way they should. Let’s see if they can be competitive against teams like FU. Let’s even see if they can handle a USF type of team. The same USF squad that got obliterated by several teams last year.

I hope that is enough ‘evidence’ for you. Sorry, but that was a ridiculous statement and anyone who thinks the 2009 offense was just as good as Weinke;s squad has been sniffing too much glue.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Superior QB? What did Weinke do better than Ponder? Nothing.

Try reading Kelly. Survey through it.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn’t fly here. We know the 2010 offense performed just as well as the Weinke offense. We know it because we have the records.

Now, does this mean the 2010 squad cannot show the consistency to measure up to the Weinke led squad? Of course not. let’s see how they handle lesser opponents the way they should. Let’s see if they can be competitive against teams like FU. Let’s even see if they can handle a USF type of team. The same USF squad that got obliterated by several teams last year.

Blah blah blah, anecdotal evidence easily refuted with other examples.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

And one faced tougher competition.

Kelly doesn’t understand that posting final scores fails to show offensive or defensive proficiency.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

Lots of people don’t understand that. ESPN included.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again you fail to read, as FCS are excluded from rating calculation.

Are you chewing gum right now or is there something else distracting you?

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, yeah, I guess you glossed over the fact the article said last year's offense was as good as Weinke's.

Also, I guess you glossed over the fact that I listed the impotent offense against USF and FU.

You guys fail to look at every game and consistency. You want to try and piece together a portion of the season. There is not a single game in 1999 that Weinke’s offense did not show up .

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you definitely didn't read the article

And you’re definitely not comprehending the difference in competition level between the two seasons.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you're not willing to consider evidence people provide to you

I’m just going to ban you. All you do is troll. We like to have intelligent discussion here. You don’t add anything to it.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

her?

>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jun 15, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't follow you Kelly...

JaxState > LaTech (both should be excluded anyways)
ACC in 2009 >>> ACC in 1999
UF in 2009 (#1, undefeated, 22game winstreak) >>> UF in 1999

by TheMarchingChief on Jun 15, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, FU taking a knee in the third quarter means our offense in 2009 was better than us beating a very good FU team in 1999?

So, us beating an FCS team like a drum in 1999 and barely squeeking by in 2009 should not matter? What about the impotent performance against USF? Consistently good versus good against a portion of the schedule is most important.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are using entire team results to paint a picture of the offense, and not considering other context.

The USF performance was not miserable, and that defense was playing at a high level. We were unlucky to lose multiple fumbles in that game.

The 1999 team had advantages that the 2009 offense did not have, and the 2009 team played a much more competitive schedule.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it was also a tremendous show

In 2000 did our offense bail us out of games like the ’09 offense did?

Better QB, better Oline, gimme ’09 > ’00

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

MattD

Nice work. I had not seen that reference (is it FEI?) for defense ranking of opponents in 2009. Wow. Wow. Wow. Sick work last year, Jimbo & Co.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weren’t they the top run defense team in FEI? That’s surprising if so.

by evenflow58 on Jun 15, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef2009

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Done

Good stuff, eh?

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

1 word

SCOREBOARD

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scoreboard is pretty strong

I know that always “puts me in my place”.

I do agree with Bud, though.

by pollynole on Jun 16, 2010 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its a joke

Thats all KL seemed to be referring too

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 16, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

What's even more impressive

is that our 2009 offense held the ball for 31:03, utilizing long drives (possibly to eat up more clock and keep the D off the field). In 1999 under Weinke, our offense had the ball for 28:29, indicating much more of a quick strike / big play offense.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha. laughable

I know you probably hate Edmund Burke, Mark Twain, and Disraeli, but there anecdote says it all “There are three kinds of Lies: Lies, Damned Lies, then there are statistics”.

If you need further explanation then just ask. The bottomline: The talent, execution, and overall results for the Weinke led squads are SUPERIOR to the 2009 offense.

Now, AGAIN, this does not mean Ponder’s offense cannot achieve similar excellence in 2010, but thir performances against Jax state, USF, and FU were horrible. Weinke’s offense in 1999 scored 30 or more points in all but one game. Seven of their games were over 40 points. Five of 2009’s games were over 40.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Kelly, they weren't

You don’t understand football. It’s pretty obvious.

Have you taken into account opponent quality? Starting field position? Rule changes with the clock?

No, you have not. Because you’re not willing to learn.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you take into account that our offensive talent in 1999 was far superior?

Our offense was better. Plain and simple. You can skew what you want with stats to make your case. The ’99 offense was much better

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ponder > Weinke

’09 OLine > ’08 Oline

what part was better? Oh right. You have no evidence to back up your claim.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not debating the 09 line versus the 08 line. Please stay focused.

ALso, Weinke is > Ponder as of now. Let’s at least have Ponder invited to the heisman ceremony or sniff a national championship before we annoint him.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both of those criteria are terrible

Completely dependent on team success. Makes no sense.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's a moron. I'm done with Klex.

Doesn’t understand individual v. team, or unit v. team.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typo.

’09 Line > ’08 line.

Ponder > Weinke. Better in every area. What did Weinke do better than Ponder?

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree '09 is better than '08. Still not sure what point you are trying to make.

Weinke was a winner and leader that rallied the troops and won consistently. He was a heisman winner. HE was a national champion.

Now, if you want to say he runs faster then I can definitely say you win that argument. Let’s see him achieve close to what Weinke has achieved before we start to say he is better than him. Again, it does not mean he cannot prove it this year, but let’s wait and see.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ponder’s awards and winning are limited by the team around him. Would you not agree with that?

Ponder has a better arm, is more mobile, and is an excellent decision maker. That is why he is much more highly regarded as a prop prospect.

If I were starting a team and could have Weinke or 2009 Ponder based purely on skill and not team achievement I would choose Ponder every time.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Let me slow things down a little for you...

Weinke did more ‘on the field’ during the games then Ponder has. Period. Weinke was a better college QB to this point of Ponder’s career. Is this a debate on pro potential? No. Is this a debate on who runs faster? No. If so, we can make a new subject on this and I might agree with you on mobility and running ability, etc.

No, again, please stay focused. The article stated the offense last year was as good as weinke’s offense. That was a ridiculous statement.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it wasn't

Ponder has played better on the field in ’09 than Weinke did in 2000.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on record alone and that is it.

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

You fail to be able to identify the differences in individual/unit/team performance and use team record and awards as an argument for all of them.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ponder's doing pretty darn well for himself.

The 99 Weinke’s rating was about 2.5 pts lower; he threw for 20 yards less per game (though more overall, due to CP7’s injury).

With 09’s Ponder at the helm in 99, we still win the NC, I think.

Now, no doubt that Weinke had a more successful career at FSU – but better talent helped him win more, too.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So wins and postseason awards are all that matter to you in judging efficiency?

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is it so hard to look at ALL of the games?

The offense and ‘efficiency’ of the 1999 was very consistent through all games. The ‘09 team was extremely inconsistent. The USF, Jax State, and FU games was truly horribly inefficient. A game like BYU was about as awesome and efficient as you can get. Again, we are talking about each year’s offense and there is no denying that the ’99 offense was better than the ’09 team. It is actually not even real close.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I've recently realized, KLex...

When they said “the Chris Weinke led offense” they were talking about the 2000 one, NOT 1999 one.

And I will agree with you that Weinke had a most distinguished career. He deserves many accolades. But he also played under much more favorable circumstances (surrounding talent, schedule, etc.). Give that to Ponder, and I bet we have records nearly identical to Weinke’s.

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yards Per Play sure sounds like a good measure to use

I.e. What did you do with the ball when you had it? I just looked at the 2009 FEI/S&P article and couldn’t find the table on per game YPP, but I will say that BYU sure looked impressive becasue we were +5 in TO. That was ’99 season type impressive, but not indicative of the performance of the offense when judged alone.

Coincidentally, I’ll say anecdotally we moved the ball b/w the 20s several times on USF but did not translate into points due to three fumbles, miss FG, goal line stand, and Amato’s pregame hissy fit.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm intrigued by the hissy fit

I don’t believe I’ve heard of this event. Any and all details appreciated.

by fsuclipper on Jun 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chuck cutting off Jimbo's attempt at pregame speech

While Bobby shmoozes the Bham boosters on the need for our practice facility up in the coache’s conference room.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone else can fill in the holes

But basically, Bowden was very very late coming into the locker room after warmups to give the pregame speech.

And because the kids were all just sitting there not doing anything and the game was about to start, Jimbo took it on himself to do it since Bowden wasn’t there and noone was taking a lead. From what I heard he got up and started to speak and was confronted by Amato in the middle of it, with Amato saying he was the Executive Assistant Coach, so HE should give the speech.

I imagine Jimbo was dumbfounded that Amato would even say this, let alone in front of the whole team, and it apparently became an argument and Amato refused to let Jimbo finish, so the players just walked out.

Yes, they literally WALKED out of the locker room without a coach and with no pepup. We know the rest

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one where you proved you had not read the link provided by changing the focus?

Or was there some other place where you offered any evidence whatsoever for your claim?

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

You posted final scores, for the wrong season.

You did not in fact post anything that refutes that last year’s offense was worse than the 2000 offense.

Had you done research maybe you could have come up with the fact that 2000’s offense averaged 6.94 yards per play, while 2009’s averaged 6.8. That would have been a much better argument, however still incorrect because 2009’s schedule was much more difficult.

The ACC was miserable back in the day.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wenkie's D gave him many more at bats and much more time of posetion.

You can’t compare Just the offenses by looking at team totals. It doesn’t make sense.

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, less TOP

see my comment on TOP between 2009 and 1999 teams.

But I still agree that having an awesome D on your side palefaces the opposing D to some extent.

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poor wording...how do you say, got the ball back to them more often?

Although with all the big plays given up, that may not be true either.

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another thing people who look at the final score fail to realize is that....

DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAMS score TDs too, and they do not count towards offensive efficiency. I would also venture a guess that we scored way more non-offensive TDs in 1999 than in 2009.

by TheMarchingChief on Jun 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree to a point.

There are always going to be varying factors from one year to the next. Especially from one decade to the next. That being said…when the offense for both eras were on the field…the Weinke led offenses were just better. They dominated the teams they played. The OU MNC game is the only game they failed to show up for in those two years. They were just better.

Now, again (several times I have said this), this is not to say our 2010 offense cannot achieve great heights and put all of our previous offenses to shame…but, let’s wait for the year to unfold.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at the 2009 season and the output against 1/4 of our schedule.

Please look at the kneel down game versus FU. Or, check out the pitiful offensive performance against Jax St. or the non existent offense against USF. Now, go find 1/4 of Weinke’s seasons games to see if there were similar offensive no-shows.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're telling me to go research Weinke's career when you won't even read a linked article we provided you?

Again discounting that we were without our 2 best players against UF. Put up around 400 yards against both Jax St. and USF, and statistically outperformed the 2000 offense CLEARLY.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jun 15, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

SCOREBOARD

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately

MattD just informed me (above? below? who knows…) that the FEI wasn’t around in 99. KLex is arguing for 99, not the referenced 00 squad. I’m not sure the other type of statistical info available for 99 would be the type of evidence generally accepted around here.

Might I suggest a cease fire? ;-)

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we just do a simple yards/play for all games in those seasons?

I do agree that we have to count non-conference games. Completely ignoring them is silly in my opinion.

by reznik1979 on Jun 15, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the problem is non-conference games

it’s FCS teams or the “throw away” teams.

in 99 we played La Tech on a partly cloudy day. They were bad, and we stomped them.

in 2009 we played Jax State with a QB transfer from LSU and Defensive talent transfers from FU, etc. They were a top 10 FCS team in the nation. Add that the weather was awful blah blah blah.

The discrepancy between different opponents is difficult to measure, and it is difficult to find statistical analysis of such teams

by freshcollegeboy on Jun 15, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno

I think the 09 has the ypp avg even over the 99 (I think 6.23 to 5.7?), but the 99 also had 18 different player run the ball vs. 13 last year. How much scrap time did the 99 team get? A lot more than the 09.

Hey, I forgot 99 had a young Anquan Boldin! He didn’t see the field much with Warrick, Dugans, Minnis, etc. out there, but that’s some talent waiting in the wings.

I think it’d be hard to make a provable argument one way or the other regarding 99, 09. There are a lot of variables to try to account for…

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

KL isn't even trying though.

I would take yards per play, game, anything if KL would even attempt to be objective.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Objectivity

Weinke Stats (’99)

232/377 (61.5%) for 3,103 yards, 8.23 ypa with 25 TD vs. 14 INT

Ponder Stats (’09)

227/330 (68.8%) for 2717 yards, 8.2 ypa with 14 TD’s vs. 7 INT

Safe to say Ponder would have lit up 3 of the last 4 opponents if he wasn’t hurt. Yards per attempt almost identical. Percentage much better for Ponder. INT Percentage negligible. Not in the stats was Ponder’s ability to run. 180 yards. in ‘09. Take away the sack numbers and I’m sure it was much higher.

There were some close games in which FSU didn’t “dominate” by the end score.

Beat Clemson 17-14
Beat Florida 30-23
Georgia Tech 41-35
Miami 41-31

So some close games there.
Imagine what would have happened to the ‘99 team with the ’09 defense. Those close games that FSU DID have in 99 would have been probably losses. Not trying to come to any real conclusions here…let you all decide. But I’m guessing 4 regular season losses and some might have been saying, “Man that Weinke just wasn’t as good as Charlie Ward…”

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Jun 15, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry,

I did this for the 99 team…could go back and do 200 if anyone really cares enough about it. Read below and people were talking about 2000.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Jun 15, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

See? It really is pretty easy to find a case for KL's argument if one tries.

That’s all I ask. Try to make your case using objective facts other than overall outcome and your opinion.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Actually, with the 09 D the 99 O might have looked even better in stats – they’d have gotten the ball back even quicker than they normally did.

Weinke: “What? We’re back on the field ALREADY? We just kicked off two plays ago!”

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That GT game was crazy

Hamilton made the Nole D in ’00 look like Nole D ’09

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 15, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Offense was national championship caliber, defense wasn't

Plus the Heisman argument doesn’t fly either. IMO there are 2 ways to win the Heisman:

1. Put up video game numbers for a BCS-conference team (2007 Tebow and 2008 Bradford, never Kellen Moore or Case Keenum)

2. Play for a team with a stifling DEFENSE (2006 Smith and 2009 Ingram)

by TheMarchingChief on Jun 15, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our Offense overcame a 24-6 deficit to one of the best Ds in the country. They were good.

by jasonole59 on Jun 15, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not going in depth here but our O last year made you cover and account for almost every variable on the field. We put together drives that frustrated the heck out of opposing teams 5 runs 3 passes, 8 passes 0 runs you couldn’t predict what Jimbo was going to do series to series most of the time.

Hey I loved our 99 team but lets be honest we just had better players than other people for the most part. We had a few teams who had comparable talent but for the most part we didn’t have to actually do anything scheme wise to beat people.

by 21nole24 on Jun 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh Cherry Picking?

Using total points as your measure of offensive performance? Really?

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bud

It take two people to argue….Your never going to win in his/her eyes and so whats the point of trying. Just keep on keeping on and appeal to the readers who want to read your opinion.

Team GOLD

by fsugrizz on Jun 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we have a breakdown of each game's yards/play?

Maybe that way we can see a trend an standrad deviation for both seasons.

by reznik1979 on Jun 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at the post on strength of schedule.

Please. At least try to have an objective conversation.

If you try, there may still be hope for you. If you refuse, I’m not sure what else can be done.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

SCOREBOARD

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah?

I think the same hysteria came from you guys when I said Moody and Parks were going to be our starters, barring injury, coming our of Spring. Several of you jumped all over me for saying Moody was the man. I still think Moddy and Parks (not Harley or Demps) will start the regular season (again, barring injury).

Listen, if you guys do not have everyone’s noses up your collective rear-ends then all Hell breaks loose. I agree with much of what is written around here. When I have a differing opinion (which has yet to be wrong) you guys have hissy fits and Bud starts slinging names like ‘moron’, ‘stupid’ etc.

I won’t even mention what you guys act like since it is evident and I do not need to get hysterical like wome of you get. If some of you want to think that a team that played USF, JSU, and FU the way they did in ‘09 is just as good as Weinke’s team then so be it. Keep repeating it to yourself that last year’s offense was the second best offense FSU has ever had and it just might become true.

I choose Weinke’s offenses by a good margin. I need to go….so, carry on with the ’09 offense is the 2nd best ever!

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, Jax st and USF is a big plus on SOS? I will say FU is, but FU was also a good team back in '99/'00.

Nice try, but we still laid an egg against those teams. USF got pasted by teams like Pitt…JSU is, well, JSU. They were not high quality teams….even on defense when you look at their other performances. Our ‘09 offense was good. It has improved over recent history. It is no where near Weinke’s offenses. Sorry.

by Kellylexy on Jun 15, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummmm.......

Markus White 4 best player on the whole team??

I’m not sure I list him at the 4th-best player on defense alone…..and to rate him above Datko at this point is borderline insane to me.

I like the guy and I really, REALLY hope he improves to the point of stardom, but come on….

Oderint Dum Metuant

by DRusso97 on Jun 15, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Ten Best Florida State Players
1. LG Rodney Hudson, Sr.
2. QB Christian Ponder, Sr.
3. LB Nigel Bradham, Jr.
4. DE Markus White, Sr.
5. LB Kendall Smith, Sr.
6. LT Andrew Datko, Jr.
7. RB Jermaine Thomas, Jr.
8. WR Bert Reed, Jr.
9. CB Greg Reid, Soph.
10. C Ryan McMahon, Sr.

Tomahawknation.com

by SWFLNole. on Jun 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right off the bat

I think you have to put a top 5 QB above anyone else they touch the ball so much more that its easy to make an impact.

Reid – even if he doesn’t play corner has a HUGE impact on feild position and scoring opportunities throughout the year. thats at least top 5 IMO

Giddy-up!

by truecolors on Jun 15, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMOP

1. Ponder
2.Bradham
3Hudson
4.Datko
5.Reed
6.Mcmahon
7. Reid
8.McDaniel
9.Thomas
10.Smith

by pollynole on Jun 16, 2010 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like that list

The bottom of it shows how unproven we are on defense.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 16, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Richard on Zebrie:
Light on his feet and extremely fit by linemen standards, he slides well in pass protection, yet also possesses the upper body strength to lead last year’s squad with 39 knockdown blocks.

Did not know that about the knockdowns. That’s incredible, considering that Hudson and Spurlock are maulers (albeit, going against bigger DTs than Zebrie against DEs, but still…)

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Wide Receiver X Y Z

I thought Fortson was our flanker, or “Z”. He definitely isn’t our “Y” or slot receiver. That would be Reed/Easterling. Reed could play “X’”, or Split End, But I hope that Smith, Haulstead, Gehres, or a true Frosh is GREAT enough to win the starting job there.

Wade and Commack won’t sniff the field on offense IMHO. I like Alexander as Slot depth/4th WR if Reed gets hurt or Easterling gives up Football (very unlikely). This is just based on HS film, body comp, speed, and character. I personally have never seen him catch a pass.

I agree that if you had to pick a weakness, it would be depth chart experience at this point. However, we have enough talented bodies that I really don’t see it as a major issue. The biggest question mark is the progression/regression of Fortson. He really has all the tools to step up and be our “Alpha” WR. Will he deliver? I would be disappointed if he didn’t catch 70 balls for 1,000 yds. and 10 TDs. Is that asking too much?

by Chad Turner on Jun 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Bert Reed is our best wideout

I’d be shocked if he gets beat out.

Pretty sure we call our slot the Z. Could be wrong. I have it down somewhere.

I would be disappointed if he didn’t catch 70 balls for 1,000 yds. and 10 TDs. Is that asking too much?

Yes, probably, because FSU spreads it around a lot.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 15, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Always lively around here!

I have to agree winning the division would clearly be considered a successful year.

I have to disagree about Fisher not caring about winning games. It is after all his job.

I think most coaches will run the ball as much as they can. ie: How much we run it will be determined by how well we are running it. That being said, when the going gets tough you ride your best horse. In our case that means Christian Ponder.

We know that the offense will be good. The defense is one big question mark. That’s what is so hard to get you head around. Such a big unknown is what’s going to determine our success next year. We could be damn good. We could also be alot like last year.

by SeminoleMike on Jun 15, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Would love to see Bud battling in the courtroom...

if they sold tickets to those kind of things, i would def buy one…..

Not sure why its so difficult for people to use their heads and be realistic about this program. Even after presented with evidence their blind faith is mind boggling. Why set yourself up for disappointment? Before every season i just think of Vince Vaughn’s quote in Dodgeball.

“I found that if you have a goal you might not reach it. But if you don’t have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya… it feels phenomenal. "

by Renegade11 on Jun 15, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Simple Y/P Breakdown

1999 Season

Opponent Plays Yards Y/P
La Tech 79 418 5.291139241
G Tech 72 444 6.166666667
NC State 75 378 5.04
UNC 68 460 6.764705882
Duke 73 509 6.97260274
Miami 76 485 6.381578947
Wake 71 425 5.985915493
Clemson 91 356 3.912087912
Virginia 72 403 5.597222222
Maryland 68 459 6.75
UF 75 346 4.613333333
V Tech 57 359 6.298245614

AVG 5.814458171
STDEV 0.944418333

2000 Season

Opponent Plays Yards Y/P
BYU 87 375 4.310344828
G Tech 74 536 7.243243243
UNC 68 540 7.941176471
Louisville 82 509 6.207317073
Maryland 90 613 6.811111111
Miami 85 565 6.647058824
Duke 74 607 8.202702703
Virginia 68 554 8.147058824
Nc State 76 519 6.828947368
Clemson 83 771 9.289156627
Wake 64 556 8.6875
UF 73 443 6.068493151
Oklahoma 69 301 4.362318841

AVG 6.980494543
STDEV 1.5184238

2009 Season

Opponent Plays Yards Y/P
Miami 54 404 7.481481481
Jax St 61 402 6.590163934
BYU 77 512 6.649350649
USF 64 288 4.5
BC 71 411 5.788732394
G Tech 66 539 8.166666667
UNC 65 438 6.738461538
NC State 73 555 7.602739726
Clemson 71 392 5.521126761
Wake 63 437 6.936507937
Maryland 51 404 7.921568627
UF 56 269 4.803571429
WVU 70 415 5.928571429

AVG 6.509918659
STDEV 1.151919781

by reznik1979 on Jun 15, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Not S&P+.

We can only do yards/play and stuff like that.

FSU teams in 1999 and 2000 played fewer great defenses and more really bad defenses.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

KL would have then tried to say something about the statistics, because 1999 was rated so poorly.

Only KL would use this as evidence that every statistic ever created is bad, which would be ridiculous.

I would have pointed out that’s why you use multiple statistics to make your point. 30 seconds of research would have led to me finding points per play, time of possession, and field position numbers to show that much more was expected out of our 2009 offense.

It really would have been a valuable discussion, both sides would have been presented well, and the readers could make up their own minds given the evidence on hand. The facts are fairly even when the debate is conducted well.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

His original statement was that the offense was not NC caliber

Team OFEI
09- Bama – 6, Texas – 15
08- UF – 1, OU – 2
07 – LSU – 2, OSU – 26

09 FSU – 8

Not a great sample size but to say that FSU offense isnt NC quality isn’t exactly accurate

Wants to live in a world where Batting Average goes the way of the Dodo!

by RaysnNoles on Jun 15, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of those comments are back now, just to serve as an example.

When you are a homer, and you don’t support it with evidence, and you refuse to, you get called an idiot.

by MattDNole on Jun 15, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow...a silence over the blood-stained battlefield

TN: Our speculation is better than most pundits' analysis

by ricobert1 on Jun 15, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

We have met the enemy, and he is...

Us? Wait, there’s gotta be a better quote than that…

We have met the enemy and he is: banned? he? not-us? repetitive?

I’ll need to work on that…

by Invictus13 on Jun 15, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goodness!

I go to the gym, have lunch (antagonize Laker homers a bit), come back and all HELL has broken lose! Picking through all the bodies it’s seems folk to couldn’t come to the realization that we’ll be playing one of THE BEST teams in the nation on the road in the 2nd week of the season. When I left the thread was getting taken over by Ponder vs. Weinke.

Back to Oklahoma for a bit. They return Landry Jones at QB, will have and RB combo of Murray and Jermie Calhoun, return 4 of 5 starters on the OL (How many returning DL starters do we have?), with the best WR in the Big 12, and we are ‘Supposed’ to beat them? They’ll be in the NC game if they don’t gak in the red river rivalry game.

Oh well, some people’s opinions are about as useful as vuvuzalas at church bingo, but I digress

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Only because you asked for it buddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGcvMwSPzA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meEIsMtwk1Q

I’m done now. But thats was what it was like peering over those ill-informed comments.
There are fewer things more annoying than folks who handcuff themselves to their own uninformed thoughts, LAPD STYLE!

by westcoastnolefan on Jun 15, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bud, I notice that you've been down on Justin Bright for a while

I think you’ve been too hard on him. In the past, you’ve even had him listed as a candidate for transferring and freeing up a scholarship because he’s “unlikely to see the field”. Did you notice, however, that Jimbo mentioned him in his 8/11 post practice interview right after being asked about Parks and Moody? Bright was the first safety he mentioned as “doing good things”. He may surprise you in the long run.

by FSU PHD on Aug 11, 2010 9:21 PM EDT reply actions  


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