FSU Fact Check: Is Florida State The Youngest Team In The ACC?
One of the interesting things in the Phil Steele annual magazine is the "experience chart", a tool with which Steele measures the experiences of the starters and key backups for each team. Steele unveiled the "by class" chart June 3rd. The measure looks only at starters and key backups, collectively known as the two-deep. SR starters get 3 points, SR backups 2.5, JR starters 2, JR backups 1.5, SO starters 1, SO backups .5, FR starters -1, and FR backups -0.5. We can argue about the values assigned to each, but as long as it is consistent throughout then it's worth a look. In particular, I question whether a senior backup is worth more than a JR starter, and I also have an issue with the measure being unable to differentiate Redshirt Freshmen from true freshmen. Certainly, however, Steele's list is better than most because it actually accounts for the starters and their immediate backups. Since football is a collision sport with many injuries, experienced backups are very important.
I'm sure you're thinking "Bud, we've heard this every year for the last 10 years. They always say FSU is a young team." They might say it, but anyone who took the time to look came to the conclusion that FSU was not a young team last season. Not at all. In fact, I pointed out many times that the 2009 squad was very veteran (particularly on defense). That Bobby Bowden repeatedly used the excuse to justify his continued employment shouldn't matter. Remember he also said that there was nothing wrong with Jeff Bowden. FSU fans might be tired of hearing they have a young team, but just because they have heard it before when it wasn't true, doesn't mean it is not true this time. Just look.
And that's really the only way to mess up when compiling a list like this. You have to look at the players and not guess. So that's what I'll do here.
FSU checks in at 98th in the country (120 teams) in experience, with a score of 56. In the ACC, Only Maryland is less experienced, with a score of 51. In reverse order, Wake Forest and VTech have 56 points, Maryland checks in with 57 points, Duke and NC State are tied with 58 experience points, Clemson and Georgia Tech have 60 experience points a piece, Then there's a huge jump to Miami with 67 experience points, Boston College and Carolina are tied for the conference lead with 70.
But I wondered if that total of 56 experience points was correct. Steele lists FSU as having 6 SR Starters, 1 SR Backup, 10 Junior Starters, 7 JR Backups, 5 SO Starters, 8 SO Backups, 1 FR starter, and 6 Freshmen Backups. Sadly, I have the depth chart committed to memory and I quickly realized those numbers were not correct. The problem was that Steele didn't have the depth chart quite right. That's an easy enough fix.
The discrepancies amongst the starters come in three main areas. First, Steele lists Taiwan Easterling as a starter at wide receiver. If Easterling plays football, and many expect him to leave for professional baseball, he would be a starter. But if he doesn't FSU will likely be start Lonnie Pryor, a second tailback, at fullback (though he won't play like a traditional fullback). He's a sophomore where Easterling is a Junior. Second, Steele lists Everett Dawkins as a starter at defensive end, but Dawkins is playing (and likely starting) at defensive tackle, moving the of-injured Moses McCray to a reserve role. Brandon Jenkins is the starter at defensive end, not Dawkins. Third, Steele lists true freshman Jeff Luc as the starter at strongside linebacker. Luc, while very highly touted, is a backup at middle linebacker. Nigel Carr, the Junior from Jacksonville who has absolutely blown up this off-season (adding 9 lbs in the last 50 days!) is the starter at the strong side. Finally, FSU's cornerback situation is very much undetermined, but that's because FSU has four capable cornerbacks in the mix and will add a fifth come July via JUCO player.
So in re-calculating the formula, I fixed the depth chart with the players whom I know are penciled in to start, and then calculated a range using the oldest possible options at WR (no fullback) and cornerback, as well as the youngest possible combo (fullback, not WR), with the youngest corners. I also fixed some of the backups (Steele assumes highly touted freshmen will jump similarly talented freshmen- now sophomores, from a year ago).
What I found is that FSU is not the youngest team in the ACC. They are the second youngest, with a range of 52.5 to 54.5. In all scenarios, FSU is younger than what Steele projected. FSU has a projected 7 SRs (5 starters), 13 JRs (10 starters), 18 SOs (6 starters), and 6 freshmen (1 starter) in the two-deep.
Conclusion: FSU is one of the 20 youngest teams in the country.
I also decided to break down the offense and defense. The offense, which was fairly young but very good last year, checks in with 3 seniors, 9 juniors, 8 sophomores, and 2 freshmen, for a total of 30 experience points. The defense, which was extremely experienced (and awful) last season, is much younger this season with only 24 experience points (median, could be as few as 22.5 or as many as 25), with 4 seniors, 4 juniors, 10 sophomores, and 4 freshmen.
Certainly how old a team is won't perfectly reflect how well it will play. But it sure doesn't hurt for a team to have some age on it. But a team cannot be young forever; in 2011 FSU projects to have one of the most experienced teams in the ACC.
Update: it appears that Steele also flubbed his evaluation of Michigan's experience.
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Agreed
Wrong article though :)
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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edit and other stuff.
Collision sport? Not report? End of first paragraph.
I remember the experience chart going into last years season. FSU had only 5 returning starters on defense and the backups were very inexperienced. Not young necessarily but inexperienced. The actual numbers of tackles made by players that were returning was miserable. This was probably compounded by the fact that the old regime played so many guys based on seniority (maybe). I think that is what pushed FSU so far down the list on returning experience. I remember seeing that chart and then the discussions on this site about how bad the FSU defense could be and well…the rest is history (forever I hope).
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
We were tops in the nation in missed tackle experience coming into last year!
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Hey Bud
I’m not sure I’m following the correlation between Easterling and Pryor? Since they are different position, isn’t it possible that both would have started? It kind of reads like " but if Easterling doesn’t start, Lonnie will"…
If Easterling plays football, and many expect him to leave for professional baseball, he would be a starter. But if he doesn’t FSU will likely be start Lonnie Pryor, a second tailback, at fullback (though he won’t play like a traditional fullback).
think what he is saying there
We would get the talent on the field. We would play more sets with one less receiver and put Lonnie in the backfield…somewhere. Either two backs or at times lined up like a traditional fullback. So if Easterling is gone, Lonnie would be listed as a starter.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
You have maryland listed twice
as both the youngest at 51 and then a point more then us at 57. But in all seriousness, FSU will only be young on defense in my eyes, and youth equals mistakes. New system equals mistakes, so youth + new system equals more mistakes. I get the feeling like this defense will start out as a top 70 defense and end up by the end of the season playing as a top 25 defense with a true ranking in the 50s or so.
Team GOLD
If Steele screwed up our depth chart, etc....
Then its probable that he’s screwed up many/most other team’s starters as well I think. Not saying that we’re not young – just that we need to be careful in discounting what he has for us in isolation for what he has for other teams.
If every team’s fans applied the same scrutiny to Steele’s lists – there would probably be many that were compiled in error (like the Michigan one also reported). And so comparatively, FSU might not look as young.
I think a better method that Steele should have looked at – would be to assign 1 point for every year in the program (including RS) and 2 additional points for every year that the player started.
So CP would have 4 points for being with FSU for 4 years and 2 points for starting in 2009 and 2 points for starting in 2008 for a total of 8 points. I think that would produce a more reliable measure of what experience means. Using that method a RS-JR who’s never been a starter would have the same experience points as a true SO who started his freshman year – 3: which sounds about right to me.
by GraniteStateNoles on Jun 8, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with that
And I do not think backups should be awarded more points than a younger starter.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Bobby called it as he saw it.
All teams are young teams when you’re eighty.
Abiaka Windclan
>>>----------------------->
by Abiaka Windclan on Jun 8, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wonder how "young" we are in terms of games started by returning players
Our O-line alone has a lot of starts under their belts.
Getting harder to take Steele seriously
Some of his stuff is good. Noticed that in Miami’s review he attributed part of the loss to Wiconsin to “cold weather”
Miami had to travel north all the way to Orlando.
I think that’s just south of the US/Canadian border. It gets pretty cold that close to the arctic circle.
by PadraicTheSeminole on Jun 8, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed but its also hard to cover the whole nation in depth and be 100% factually correct.
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Wasn't game unusually cold for Orlando?
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I was IN Orlando that night
….And it wasn’t anything bad temperature-wise. Even ran into some Wisconsan fans in Denny’s that night.
That loss was more a product of Starvin Marvin’s INT’s then the temperature.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Well it's settled. Steele (or more likely one of his writers)
messed up
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 11, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.....I went out with that girl that night in short sleeves.
Rain/field conditions were a factor, but it wasn’t that cold……even for Fla.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Taiwan Easterling
While I really like Taiwan’s toughnest and clutch catching ability (on the football field), I really don’t think we have a lot to worry about him leaving to go play baseball, based on his season stats. I’m not a huge baseball fan, I have checked out his stats and I wasn’t blown away. While I wish Taiwan all the luck in the world either way he decides to go, I think his real future is in football. Good luck Tai!
He didn't play much, but baseball drafts a lot on potential, much like D'Vo last year.
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
Season stats have nothing to do with it at all. It's all about potential.
He has ZERO future in professional football. Not big or fast enough.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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