FSU Football 2010: Expectations Versus Goals
by FrankDNole on Jul 23, 2010 11:22 PM EDT
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On Expectations
Last week I wrote that part of the problem with USC and Ohio State's recent losses is that expectations for their programs are way too high, and overall, I think expectations are way too high for most programs out there. There's so much disappointment, from both fans and the media, when teams lose that it's getting ridiculous. Cal was supposed to be able to get over the hump this year. Ole Miss was supposed to be able to compete for the SEC and maybe a national title this year. We get so bent out of shape when things don't go the way we expect them to that it sours all of the great things that our teams do accomplish.
It's worth pointing out the very important distinctions between expectations and goals. There's absolutely nothing wrong with setting the goal of winning the national championship, for any team (yes, including Duke). It's good to aim high, if only to give your program some direction, and I have no problem with any team setting the highest goals. But expectations must be grounded in reality. If they're not, not only does it cause unnecessary heartache but it also puts the focus on what hasn't happened as opposed to what has. Dreams are nice, but accepting reality can be oh-so comforting.
So in order to help you see where the bar should be set for your team, I present to you Gunther's Levels of Realistic Expectations. The basic premise is extremely simple:
1) Look at what your team has achieved in the last three seasons. That's as far back as you get to go, mainly because teams change, having up and down seasons all the time. No more living in the past, all you teams who won championships when your parents and grandparents were young - you've got to let that go if you're going to be happy and accept the present. You can give preference to the previous year, but beware - one good season does not a juggernaut the next year make.
2) Compare your teams record to the general list of achievements below. Your team's bar is set one level higher than their achievement of the past three years - that's it. Any higher and you're setting yourself up for massive disappointment.
It's as easy as that. Let's take a look at the levels, starting from the ground up. Each team's last three seasons are listed, including records, conference championships ("CC"), and bowl (result), separated by "/" marks.
A Losing Season (Level 0): You know the teams, the ones who are perennially bad every year. They're the cupcakes everyone wants on their schedule, willing to travel large distances for large sums of money so that their opponents can score large amounts of points. This is the ground level.
A .500 season (Level 1) - No matter what you've done in the past, or no matter how awful you've been, every team has the right to expect a decent season and can be justifiably upset if they don't reach the first level. For the 2009 season, teams that should set this as their goal are:
ACC- Duke, Maryland?
Going to a bowl game (Level 2) - Usually reserved for the decent and better BCS teams and the good to great non-BCS teams, bowls are still a special achievement that give a team more time to practice, prepare, and prove themselves on the field. Teams that should set this as their goal are:
ACC-Wake Forest, NCST, UVA?
Winning a bowl game (Level 3) - Getting to the game is nice, but winning it gives you a boost that can last a whole off-season.
ACC - UNC
HERE IS THE WHERE I DISAGREE WITH ED ON THE LEVELS, BUT ONLY AS FAR AS THE ACC IS CONCERNED. THEREFORE I SWITCHED LEVEL 5 AND LEVEL 4's POSITION, SINCE IN THE ACC IT IS PROBABLE/POSSIBLE THAT A TEAM CAN WIN THE CONFERENCE AND STILL NOT HAVE A 10-WIN SEASON.
Conference Championship (Level 5) - In an age where conferences are gaining more and more importance and standing, winning your conferences is a major feat.
ACC - Florida State: 7-6, Music City (L) / 9-4, Champs (W) / 7-6, Gator (W)
10-Win Season (Level 4) - Double-digit victory seasons are a great accomplishment and show a consistent level of good play throughout the season.
ACC - Florida State: 7-6, Music City (L) / 9-4, Champs (W) / 7-6, Gator (W)
There are some teams who should shoot for either Level 3 or 4, a bowl win or a 10-win season - either one works since they've had neither the last two years.
ACC - Miami, GT?
BCS Bowl Game (Level 6) - This goes along with a conference championship for the BCS teams, but there's still non-BCS teams and at-large spots to consider. Getting picked for one of these not only means that you're good but you've got pizzaz (television and fan appeal) too.
ACC - Florida State: 7-6, Music City (L) / 9-4, Champs (W) / 7-6, Gator (W) if we win the ACCCG.
There's also a few teams who haven't been able to get over the hump in the big BCS bowls. These are the teams that should shoot for a BCS bowl win:
ACC -Clemson, Boston College
National Championship Game (Level 7) - the second highest level, if you can make it to the top 2 in the BCS rankings, you've had one hell of a season.
ACC - Virginia Tech:
National Title (Level 8) - the top of the ladder, the pinnacle, the mountain that everyone's team can climb in their dreams. But this is reality. Only one team this year is allowed to be disappointed if they don't win it.
Now that we've gotten all that settled, let me make some things clear.
These placements of teams aren't set in stone, and they're not meant to be. The levels are simply a guide to where your team stands based on what they've accomplished recently. Should Ohio State expect to win the national championship based on their recent history? No - a much more suitable expectation would be a BCS win. Should Miami be upset if they don't make it to the title game? No - a suitable expectation would be a conference championship or 10-win season.
I'm not saying that you can't have really high goals for your team. I'm saying that you're not allowed to whine and be upset when they don't reach them or meet your too-high expectataions. That's just annoying and nobody wants to listen to you moan and groan when there's probably lots of teams who didn't fare as well as yours this year. Just try to be happy at what your team does accomplish this year, especially if they reach a higher level than they have in the last few years.
And remember - there's always next year.
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Well put!!!
And just what the site needed. Surely you guys get tired of folks coming on here and heralding the return of the glory days. I do. I am so tired of guys proposing that the defense is somehow going to leap 100 spots into a top ten defense simply because we are Florida State and we want it to. I found this site quite by accident last summer, I was shocked and disheartened to read that the defense (2009) was garbage. Once I calmed down and accepted the facts for what they were, I was able to enjoy FSU football even more because I was not blinded by BS projections put forth by other sites based on nothing but their wishes and I guess to sell subscriptions. Keep it real, baby
Frank, great work
You know I’ll comment more August 1st!
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I'm surprised
you can spend so much time here as is. Good luck on Tuesday+!
For my birthday?
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
'Preciate it, truenole.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
All I hear is
Blah blah blah, excuses, excuses. 14-0 or I quit being a Nole.
/endoutburstfromguylivingin1999
For me it goes:
Goal: Where you want to be at the end of the year.
Expectation: Reasonable result based on current factors and conditions (this includes the past 3 years. I like that part of his equation).
I am a little confused. FSU got to a bowl game and won. So our expectations should be level 4 or 5? You switched 4 and 5. Which one should FSU fans expect to achieve? If I’m reading it right 5 is the new 4. So the expectations for FSU should be a conference title win, or at least shot at it, in lieu of a 10 win season, which is what Ed would have called for. Am I allowed to piss and moan if that doesn’t happen? Because after this article, I damn well expect it.
HAHA. This is great stuff Frank. Should be a must read for everyone listening to a snippet here and there about FSU on ESPN or major sports stories thinking that FSU should be in it to win it all. And if they don’t FSU isn’t “back,” Fisher is on the hot seat, and other sorts of ridiculousness.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Thanks OBR. I think realistically, that the conference title should be our next level of expectation, before, and not necessarily in lieu of a 10-win season.
If we win the ACCCG first our expectations for a 10-win season should follow, but there is no reason they can’t happen in the same year.
I switched Ed’s #4 and #5 order only for FSU and the ACC because of, and judging from, recent history.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Very insightful
Also in business, the best strategy is to under promise and over deliver. That’s might be a good idea and something we should consider when setting our expectations for the 2010 football season as well.
Very true and it would be a great boost for FSU and Jimbo and would likely help recruiting.
It’s been a few years since the last time I felt satisfied after a season. It would be nice to exceed expectations for once. I think this is a good sign that my expectations have been too high.
Sorry,I vehemently disagree. ( settling) or setting lower production goals......
is exactly what the old Soviet Union did in its five year plans. The workers then produced that months quota in X number of days and then sat back the rest of the month and set the world standard for vodka consumption.
I feel our team goals should always be set high. Strive to be the best i HOPE is not a generational thingy. Like Kelleys post below this one,I believe Jimbo shares my feelings. Only the “FOOLFANS” will be after Jimbo’s head if we don’t reach all his goals, but one has to respect the man for having them.Surrendering a game or a commercial product to china is just NOT the traditional American way. I hope to heck that hasn,t changed. Two sons(also nole fans) two years in Iraq would surely be frustrated by ( settling) mindset. They too have been frustrated lately, but are hopeful about J.F and crew.
Wait, what?
Maybe your point was lost due to your weak attempt to equate having realistic (settling) expectations to your antiquated (old) political idealogy. And it’s beyond me why this article is a disservice to soldiers serving in Iraq. 14-0 and a national championship should not be our goal because it contradicts our past success, reality. I agree that it’s an ultimate goal, but not something we should feel is within our grasp now. Achieving these lower levels will eventually allow that to be our immediate goal. Jimbo’s goal relates to how well we follow the process required to eventually attain loftier goals. Perhaps I misunderstood your FOOTBALL (American kind, not the commie sort they play in the rest of the “world”) perspective due to the rhetoric.
by FLpanhandler on Jul 25, 2010 6:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What part of (settling) for 2,nd, 3 rd, or 20th did you
not grasp? I and my 2 sons both agree with Jimbo that we should always STRIVE to be the best. As M.L.K. said in Memphis so many years back"i may not get there with you", but he didn’t throw in the towel w/o TRYING to be the best. I’m sorry if you reguard FACTUAL history as old fashioned, or somehow not revelent to today’s world, both in sports and in life.
Lastly, i have no idea what “commie type” football is, but i’ve watched AMERICAN football for over 3 decades and coached it for 4 years. Have you?
again, GO NOLES………….(always strive to be the best!)
Um, duh.
We all agree that Jimbo and co. should and will strive to do their best, every year/every game. That’s not an issue. The only question is, what can we realistically expect the team to accomplish this year?
Note: we are not on the team, we don’t have to have the can-do attitude installed by coaches and/or drill sergeants; we’re outside observers who happen to strongly cheer for one side. This is also why the Soviet Union comparison doesn’t work. We don’t want the players to have the mindset, “Hey, let’s just win eight games this year.” What we want is for fans not to be disappointed if the team wins eight (because with this schedule, that would actually represent a significant improvement over the past few years). And, yes, there will be a large number who will complain about “underachieving” if everyone starts ridiculously touting FSU as a national championship contender.
By the way, God bless our troops, and your sons… but we’re not “surrendering” a game (to OU, UM, uf) just because we non-participants have evaluated the two sides and determined that the other side is more likely to win that game. Trust me, we’ll still cheer as hard as we can for FSU. I hesitate to use military comparisons (hot-button topic), but perhaps if I switched perspectives… would a third-world country’s military be expected to defeat an invading UK force? Think about the technological advantages the UK forces would have. The third-worlders would certainly try their best, and they might even win a few battles, but in the long run the better organized, better armed soldiers would be victorious, right? For a decade now, teams like OU have had better commanders, have been better armed, etc. We’re not “third world,” but we have only recently acquired the most modern technology – and we haven’t been fully trained in modern methods. We are at a disadvantage. Will we surrender? NO. But Switzerland would probably look on and think, “The Sooner Republic will probably defeat the Tomahawk Nation.”
iNVICTUS,
The Soviet 5- year plan bit was in reference to a post above Kelly’s that called for businesses to ( aim low and finish better).
What i’m trying to get across( w/o much success obviously) is while we as fans should reasonably be happy with 8-9 games, we should always as a team and coaches instill in our players hearts the drive to win it all.
The bit about the BB fans whineing is a given. Heck we’d have to win a N.C. to appease some diehards. But on the flip side of that, I’ve read some scathing remarks that simply are not true. So, as always, there is room for improvement in both camps.
A s far as military history, theory, etc( my other 4 decade long book/ computer love), e- mail me or visit our aol LIFE WW2 VETS AND FRIENDS site any day at 1 pm or 7 pm eastern. Many times, good ground, and more desire have indeed defeated larger, better equipped adversaries. lol, Did Boise state have the “star power” to whip Alabama a few years back? Did they even have many/ any players that would have started in the S.E.C.?
Thats what i meant about “surrendering” before the game even begins. upsets happen EVERY season. Hopefully, Jimbo teaches our younguns to play their butts off every game.
GO NOLES
OLDNOLE:
I’m not sure what you are (or seem to be) upset about. NO ONE is arguing that the coaches and players should not try their best to win every game. Seriously. Everyone is talking about FAN expectations except for you. NO ONE would be satisfied if Jimbo Fisher preached to his players that they need to go out and win 8 games this year. We want a championship attitude, and JF is installing that.
So, great, JF is doing what all great coaches, military leaders, etc. do. We’re all joyous.
But, now, what do YOU think FSU’s record will be at the end of the season? Do you really, honestly think we will go 14-0? If so, would you feel confident enough to bet on it? Let’s say, oh, how about $10,000? (And I would jump on that bet, so lemme know.) Or are you not THAT confident that we will go 14-0? How about $8k? $5k? Tell me where you feel comfortable… and, let’s say that the loser pays half the amount to the winner, and half to the FSU Boosters.
I’m thinking you aren’t willing to bet $10k on an undefeated season (and please, don’t say you don’t gamble; consider it a hypothetical if you are against gambling. But, if you aren’t opposed to it, I would love to make this bet with you, and I’m not even a gambler myself). Let me ask, “Why not?” Have you suddenly ran the odds through your head and thought, “You know what, I just don’t think we’ll go undefeated. I mean, if we even lose just one game, I’m out A LOT of money.” (But, hey, with that “can-do” attitude, how can we lose ANY games? C’mon man, take the bet…).
Again, let me stress: no one is saying that the team should not have a can-do attitude; we’re talking about fan expectations, and what the record might actually be. This article is titled “Expectations vs. Goals” – the goal for FSU should always be to go undefeated; given our current situation, a reasonable expectation is that the team will win 7-9 regular season games.
Invictus, I'm not mad at anyone. a bit frustrated that a few people....
don’t READ what i type maybe.Here, i’ll put a small piece out there again, sigh………..
What i’m trying to get across( w/o much success obviously) is while we as fans should reasonably be happy with 8-9 games, we should always as a team and coaches instill in our players hearts the drive to win it all.
does that LOOK like i think or would bet on going undefeated? Did i not again explain where the “surrendering” word came from? both in sports and in the real world? I think i covered it very plainly. i would ask that you go back and reread it.
Thanks
Apologies
I do think there’s been some confusion. I took issue with your original statement, where you “vehemently” disagreed with a comment. You later say that was referring to the “aim low and finish better” comment.
The thing is, that’s not really what that comment says. What is meant by “the best strategy is to under promise and over deliver” (at least, in my interpretation), is that if you tell a customer that you’ll get a job done in three days, try to finish in two days. If you say a job will cost $2500, try to get it done for $2200. That way, the customer is very happy. But, if you tell him you can do it for $2000 and it ends up costing $2200, he’ll be ticked.
I don’t think that relates to the Soviet quota/poor production analogy at all. Jimbo is not telling the players, “Let’s win 8 games this year.” Once they win 8, they won’t sit on those victories and be content.
As far as your main point:
What i’m trying to get across( w/o much success obviously) is while we as fans should reasonably be happy with 8-9 games, we should always as a team and coaches instill in our players hearts the drive to win it all.
I 100% agree with this. I may have misinterpreted what you meant by your comment to FLpanhandler:
What part of (settling) for 2,nd, 3 rd, or 20th did you
not grasp?
This combined with all the comments about MLK, not surrendering, etc. gave me the impression that you thought we could will ourselves to victory – the implication was, every time (=undefeated; after all, if you can do it once, why not do it again… and again?). That’s how/why I thought you were arguing that (I see from you last post that I misunderstood that).
Anyway, I do think our main problem has been different interpretations of the comment that “the best strategy is to under promise and over deliver” – again, that really doesn’t imply a defeatist attitude by the coaches or the players, nor does it indicate that Jimbo does/should have low goals for this year.
Thank you. This is exactly what I meant and why I prefaced it with "Also in business."
What is meant by "the best strategy is to under promise and over deliver" (at least, in my interpretation), is that if you tell a customer that you’ll get a job done in three days, try to finish in two days. If you say a job will cost $2500, try to get it done for $2200. That way, the customer is very happy. But, if you tell him you can do it for $2000 and it ends up costing $2200, he’ll be ticked.
And then I ended it with
That’s might be a good idea and something we should consider when setting our expectations for the 2010 football season as well.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Right, that's one of my points. If you set your expectations at a 8 win and Atlantic division title,
and we wind up with 9 or 10 win season including the bowl and a ACC Championship everyone should be thrilled to death because the Noles exceeded your REALISTIC expectations.
However, if you expect 10-11 wins and a BCS bowl appearance, you are more than likely to be disappointed and might want to say something stupid like “What would it have hurt to have given Bobby one more year.”
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
They'll be coming out of the woodwork
September 12, 2010.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 25, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great wright up....
I think that for FSU, beating the Gators should be a level in its own. Just saying. So i think our goals are too beat Florida and PLAY in the ACC championship game and possibly make it to the National Championship Game. And our expectations are to at least play or win the ACC championship game…?!
by TrueSeminole2010 on Jul 24, 2010 5:32 AM EDT reply actions
Thank You, really good write up.
In my best case scenario—a 3 loss season (UM UF and OU) would be a hugely successful season
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Jul 24, 2010 7:37 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed and in your scenario that could equal a level 5 ACC title and a level 4 10-win season.
But it would still sting losing to our in-state enemies.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Excellent Article
I’d say my goals don’t change year to year. in order…
1. Beat Florida
2. Beat Miami
3. Conference Championship
4. 10 win season
5. NC Game
This year, my expectations..
Get to a bowl…
Be competitive for the Atlantic title…
With our recent history and the unknown nature of our situation, we can’t expect any more…
Team Gold!
I think going to a bowl (level 2) is a given and and we should compete for the Atlantic unless we are decimated by injuries.
Winning the bowl (level 3) should also be attainable. Even though BC and Clemson are formidable, I am more optimistic than Bud and I expect to win the Atlantic (I will call this my new Level 3.5) and play in the ACCCG (winning the ACC would be my new level 4, since I flipped 4 and 5 {10 win season}).
IMO, winning the ACCCG and having a 10 win season are my short term goals for this year, and the scenario I played out in my first paragraph is always my long term goal, again from my perspective. The team’s goal should always be to go undefeated. Most coaches and players do not start a season hoping they win most games. Well coached teams start the season thinking they will win them all.
But my personal realistic goal for the team this year is to achieve level 3 (win a bowl) and achieve level 3.5 (win the Atlantic), which might give us the opportunity to achieve level 4 (win the ACC).
Will I be disappointed if we don’t win the Atlantic division, absolutely, but I will not walk out on the ledge nor will I buy the www.fireJimbo.com domain. I want to see the “process” working and I can live with baby steps, as long as there is progression.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I'll go with that
I like the divide into short term and long term goals…
Since I expect to be competitive for the Atlantic Title, Winning the Atlantic is a good short term goal.
I think a ten win season is a nice goal for this year too. It’s certainly no expectation, but it is possible.
Team Gold!
by garnetandgold on Jul 25, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
competing in our division
Since 2005 (the year we backed into the Conference Title), have we entered the last Saturday of conference play with a shot at the division title? (If everything went our way).
I’m pretty sure we haven’t the past 3 years, and certainly not in 2006.
Competing for the Atlantic Division requires team-wide PROGRESSION. (See what I did there? Seamless)
by The K-Man on Jul 26, 2010 2:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great stuff, FrankD!
I think y’all on staff should make this read a requirement to those that want to participate in the season W/L prediction exercise!
On a side note, Frank, I truly feel the expectations we can have for our Fins are not too far away from the goal. FSU has quite a bit of distance between the two, but I do not think our Fins do.
Brandon Marshall and Karlos Dansby will really help, and mark my words, Cameron Wake will make a name for himself this year.
And they also signed DE Marques Douglas which should help the DL with the loss of Merling.
As far as FSU/Fin comparisons, I consider the NY Jest the equivalent of our UF Gaturds and the NE Patsies are our scUM’s, or vice versa, doesn’t really matter.
GO NOLES, GO PHINS.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Could not agree more
Well said Go ’Noles Go ’Phins
nice work Frank
by NoleforLife on Jul 24, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Big on Wake, myself. Picking up Nolan as the D-Coor cannot be over-stated.
I hate anything Boston more than anything else, and most FSU fans (myself included) with more than a decade of tenure hates scUM far more than the Gates, so I am right with you on that analogy!
Also big on Wake.
I disagree about scUM and the Crocs, though. UM is far less hateable to me than Hogtown. Everything about the Gators screams “obnoxious trailer trash” to me, whereas scUM is at least a somewhat respected long-standing rival.
The ‘Canes also don’t have the holier-than-thou schtick like the Yokels. Especially post-Jesusback.
by Drew J Jones on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, now you're talking about the fan base. I was referring to the teams, not the fan base.
I grew up, as did many, many FSU fans, with the Noles doing just fine agains UF for the most part and having Miami figure out different ways to beat us in heart-wrenching fashion on an annual basis. Remember, Bobby was going to have “But he had to play Miami” engraved on his tombstone. It was not until his last lost decade that he would have needed to have “and UF” added.
I think the debate of who you hate more, the Turds or the scUM's, is relevant to your age and geographical background.
You might hate the scum’s:
A) If you are older.
2) You don’t necessarily believe they were better than we were, but because you think that some of their 5 NC’s should be ours if we had not performed self -colonoscopies on ourselves so many times during the 80’s and 90’s.
D) If you are from So. Fla or if you have friends who attended the old Thug U and had to put up with their arrogance and bullsh!t over the years thinking they were so great when in reality they won close games because we could not kick FG’s or convert on 2 point conversions.
You might hate the Turds:
A) If you are from anywhere in Florida er, the Southeast any other part of the USA.
2) You think mullets look ridiculous and jorts should only be worn by women, and only in the form of “Daisy Dukes.”
D) You dislike pompous, unwarranted self-aggrandizing, holier-than-thou, hypocritical a$$holes.
VIII) You don’t live in a trailer park, even if it is a double-wide.
Actually, it is also OK to hate them equally, I do.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jul 25, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Or you can hate whoever is more annoying at the time...
and right now that is definitely UF
No question, but come October 9th at Joe Robbie Stadium, I can tell you my mind will not be on the filthy Turds.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I agree about the Jets fans.
When they show up as Fifth Columnists wearing green at “Joe Robbie” when the Jets are doing well, they remind me of the bandwagon Canes fans in the 1990’s who never went to UM and probably can’t even spell it, but they were Canes fans. Three of my best friends in the world are Cane grads and they have always been great. But those bandwagon Canes really bust my boxers.
You don't remember the "Never, Never FSU" tee shirts they wore under their Pads for years..
Not to mention the way they dissed us in all ways. I was at the game where we first tied them 3-3. Fights broke out and I thought there were going to be coronaries at Florida Field. Hundreds were arrested.
Wow! That would have been incredible to be there!
I guess I should have realized that there are other demographics besides the FSU fans that have come up seeing the Gates dominate this past decade and the fans that grew up getting their hearts ripped from their chest on an annual basis by UM (that’s where I’m from). Thanks for the education!
Actually, UM was happy to play us and the Gates tried to keep getting out of it.
UM and FSU players still respect each other and since the Gates have dumped on both of us we both hate them (along with most folks in the SEC, even before the Gates started winning). BTW, one of my best friends was the only guy to knock Spurrier out cold in a game, one of his fondest moments, that is how it went then….LOL.
HAHA....that's awesome
Fear the mind of the FSU fan
by Will_The_Nole on Jul 24, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO there's not just goals vs. expectations
There’s also a 3rd category: predictions
Goals are obvious: Win every game
Expectations speak more to where your program could/should be: How good you’d be, and where you’d end up, if you have the right staff and people are doing their jobs and maximizing your resources
Predictions are where I take into account things that change from year to year: Depth charts, matchups, coaching, and specific scheduling, and the staff/administration’s failures to maximize resources in the past. If you lose to a program w/ lower expectations, then somebody screwed up—didn’t recruit well enough, didn’t evaluate well enough, didn’t play the right people, didn’t employ the right scheme, etc.
Aren't expectations specific to that year, while goals are typically unchanged?
Expect seems to imply that you honestly believe it will happen.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Great write-up, Frank.
I’m expecting us to compete for the division and perhaps conference titles.
My goal would be to be competing with a decent shot for the national title in three or four years. I think we can do better than that, but that strikes me as achievable.
by Drew J Jones on Jul 25, 2010 7:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Nice stuff Frank. However, I don't like the idea of setting the MNC as a goal every year.
IMO, I think goals and expectations are “inextricably intertwined” (to steal a phrase from the law). In other words, by setting goals, you are also establishing expectations. However, you have to set goals to be successful. Typically, you set goals that are high (and usually unattainable). Therefore, because goals and expectations are so closely aligned, you are always going to have high expectations. Unfortunately, this creates a problem for setting “realistic” expectations. This is also why, as Frank stated, people consistently confuse goals and expectations.
As such, I think there is a fundamental problem with setting the MNC as a goal (even a secondary goal) every year. I think this holds true even if you are a MNC contender. One, there are two many variables for a team to control. 99% of teams don’t even get the chance to even play for the MNC. Even some of those that are undefeated. Two, losing one game effectively eliminates the goal of the MNC. As a coach, fan, player, how do you justify your season, or all the hard work you’ve put in, only to be eliminated from the MNC conversation by mid-season?
IF I have the time, I want to explore this area more in a FanPost…
Good points, however, as a fan, and as players and coaches, at the start of the season your goal is to win them all, which would obviously mean a MNC.
I don’t think you should set a goal of winning 10 games. I believe all parties concerned should set a goal of winning them all. There all sorts of opinions of course, and this does not take into account short and long term goals, which are incorporated into the plan once the season starts and maybe you lose a game and realize that 14-0 is not possible. But IMO, the goal at the beginning of a season, or at the start of a business plan, is to set the highest attainable goal, then set realistic minimum expectations that will help you achieve those goals.
But I respect your opinion on the matter, and there is no right or wrong train of thought.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
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