Driving For Improvement: The 19 ACC Scoring Drives FSU Cannot Allow Again: #'s 19-14
by Bud Elliott on Jul 8, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintOver the next few days we will be looking for areas in which Florida State can improve in the 2011 season. Specifically, we are going to review 19 of the 43 scoring drives Florida State allowed in ACC play in order to highlight areas of potential improvement. Later in the Summer we will offer our estimations of how much Florida State's defense can improve. And the 88th-ranked defense has a lot of room for improvement. Today we'll look back at drives 19-14
#19: Greg Cooper's 3 yard run caps a 6-play, 59-yard drive to put Miami on top for good.
Um
1-10
at Um41
Harris, J. middle pass complete to James, J. for 7 yards to the UM48 (Carr, N), clock 03:50.
Um
2-3
at Um48
James, J. rush right for 2 yards to the 50 yardline (Carr, N;Robinson, P;Watson, D), clock 03:25.
Um
3-1
at Um50
Cooper, G. rush over right guard for 2 yards to the FS48, 1ST DOWN UM (Carr, N;Bradham, N), clock 03:03.
Um
1-10
at Fs48
Harris, J. middle pass complete to Hankerson, L. for 5 yards to the FS43, out-of-bounds (Reid, G), clock 02:32.
Um
2-5
at Fs43
Harris, J. flag pass complete to Benjamin, T. for 40 yards to the FS3, 1ST DOWN UM, out-of-bounds, clock 01:56.
Um
1-G
at Fs03
Cooper, G. rush over right tackle for 3 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 01:53.
One common theme in the worst 19 scoring drives FSU allowed in conference play is the inability to force 2nd and 8+ and 3rd and 5+ situations, also known as "passing downs." That's important because the 'Noles were 100th in non-passing down defense, and 55th in passing-down and distance defense. Here, FSU didn't force a single one and Miami went 59 yards in only 6 plays. We covered Miami's 1st-down success in a few thousand words and pictures here. And of course, FSU allowed a big play (40-yard pass).
Inside, see more trends develop as we examine drives 18-14
#18: NC State ties FSU at 28 with a 7-play, 74-yard drive.
Ncs
1-10
at Ncs26
Wilson,R. sideline pass complete to Spencer,O. for 12 yards to the NCS38, 1ST DOWN NCS (Jenije, O), clock 10:18.
Ncs
1-10
at Ncs38
Baker,T. rush over left tackle for 5 yards to the NCS43 (McCray, M;Smith, K), clock 09:47.
Ncs
2-5
at Ncs43
Baker,T. rush left for 20 yards to the FS37, 1ST DOWN NCS (McCray, M), clock 09:24.
Ncs
1-10
at Fs37
Baker,T. rush over right tackle for loss of 1 yard to the FS38 (Jenkins, B), clock 08:49.
Ncs
2-11
at Fs38
Wilson,R. deep out pass incomplete to Bowens,D., clock 08:18.
Ncs
3-11
at Fs38
Wilson,R. post pass complete to Davis,D. for 32 yards to the FS6, 1ST DOWN NCS, out-of-bounds (Jenije, O), clock 08:06.
Ncs
1-G
at Fs06
Wilson,R. flag pass complete to Williams,Ja. for 6 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN,
Here FSU, which was considerably better in passing downs than non-passing downs, actually manages to force two passing downs. That's the good news. The bad news was that the 'Noles surrendered a 32-yard completion on 3rd-and-11. But FSU also allowed plays of 12, 5, 20, and 6 on the drive.
#17 Javarris James 6-yard TD run caps a 7-play, 75 yard drive to put Miami ahead 14-10
Um
1-10
at Um25
Harris, J. crossing pass complete to Epps, D. for 19 yards to the UM44, 1ST DOWN UM (Robinson, J), clock 02:32.
Um
1-10
at Um44
Harris, J. deep in pass complete to Collier, T. for 18 yards to the FS38, 1ST DOWN UM (Reid, G), clock 02:10.
Um
1-10
at Fs38
James, J. rush over right tackle for 9 yards to the FS29 (Bradham, N), clock 01:47.
Um
2-1
at Fs29
Timeout Florida State, clock 01:46.
Um
2-1
at Fs29
James, J. rush right for 6 yards to the FS23, 1ST DOWN UM (Smith, K), clock 01:39.
Um
1-10
at Fs23
Harris, J. middle pass complete to Johnson, A. for 6 yards to the FS17 (Jenije, O), clock 01:11.
Um
2-4
at Fs17
Harris, J. sideline pass complete to Johnson, A. for 11 yards to the FS6, 1ST DOWN UM, out-of-bounds (Jenije, O), clock 00:55.
Um
1-G
at Fs06
James, J. rush over right tackle for 6 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN
Miami having success on 1st down? Shocking. The Cane didn't even face a 3rd down on the drive, and faced only a two 2nd downs (none of the 2nd and 8+ variety, of course)! FSU did not force Miami into any passing downs on this drive. This drive did not feature a 30+ yard play, but with plays of 6, 6, 9, 11, 11 18, and 19, Miami didn't need the big one.
#16: Boston College drives 65 yards in 6 plays to go up 21-3 before half.
Bc
1-10
at Bc35
Shinskie, D pass complete to Gunnell, R for 11 yards to the BC46, 1ST DOWN BC, out-of-bounds (Robinson, J).
Bc
1-10
at Bc46
Harris, M rush for 3 yards to the BC49 (Carr, N).
Bc
2-7
at Bc49
Harris, M rush for 4 yards to the FS47 (Watson, D).
Bc
3-3
at Fs47
Shinskie, D pass complete to Larmond, Jr., C for 5 yards to the FS42, 1ST DOWN BC, out-of-bounds (Jenije, O).
Bc
1-10
at Fs42
Shinskie, D pass complete to Larmond, Jr., C for 4 yards to the FS38 (Reid, G).
Bc
2-6
at Fs38
Shinskie, D pass complete to Smith, J for 38 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 00:59.
Florida State faced 6 plays on the drive and couldn't force a single passing down. Every play gained at least 3 yards as the Eagles offense, anemic against most everyone, had no trouble marching on FSU.
#15: Clemson scores on its 7-play, 76-yard opening drive
Cu
1-10
at Cu24
Ford, J rush for 8 yards to the CU32 (Robinson, P;Bradham, N).
Cu
2-2
at Cu32
Spiller, C rush for 14 yards to the CU46, 1ST DOWN CU (Robinson, P).
Cu
1-10
at Cu46
Parker, K pass complete to Dye, X for 11 yards to the FS43, 1ST DOWN CU (Robinson, P).
Cu
1-10
at Fs43
Parker, K pass complete to Palmer, M for 5 yards to the FS38 (Robinson, P).
Cu
2-5
at Fs38
Spiller, C rush for loss of 2 yards to the FS40 (Watson, D;Smith, K).
Cu
3-7
at Fs40
Parker, K pass complete to Ford, J for 23 yards to the FS17, 1ST DOWN CU (Jenije, O).
Cu
1-10
at Fs17
Parker, K pass complete to Allen, D for 17 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN
Florida State forced a single passing down on this drive, but Clemson converted it. The 'Noles allowed plays of 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 23 yards.
#14: Miami opens the scoring on a 6-play, 66 yard drive.
Um
1-10
at Um34
PENALTY UM false start (Fox, J.) 5 yards to the UM29.
Um
1-15
at Um29
Harris, J. screen pass complete to James, J. for 20 yards to the UM49, 1ST DOWN UM (Mangum, K), clock 14:46.
Um
1-10
at Um49
Harris, J. sideline pass incomplete to Hankerson, L., clock 14:18.
Um
2-10
at Um49
James, J. rush over right tackle for 7 yards to the FS44 (Robinson, J;Smith, K), clock 14:00.
Um
3-3
at Fs44
James, J. rush up middle for 2 yards to the FS42 (White, M), clock 13:18.
Um
4-1
at Fs42
Timeout Miami, clock 12:45.
Um
4-1
at Fs42
James, J. rush over right guard for 3 yards to the FS39, 1ST DOWN UM (Bradham, N), clock 12:38.
Um
1-10
at Fs39
Harris, J. post pass complete to Benjamin, T. for 39 yards to the FS0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 12:02.
Here again, we covered this last September, but FSU got rocked on 1st down from the opening drive of the year until the final drive. Miami faced only one passing down, and Mark Whipple ran to get into a more manageable 3rd down situation.
Analysis of the TD:
If you follow FSU football, you know that Mickey Andrews loved to play cover-1 on 1st down. That means P-Rob (bottom of screen, #21), is on a wideout. Our deep safety (off-screen) plays deep, Korey Mangum (#22) takes the slot receiver, Dekoda Watson takes one of the tight ends, and Jenijie takes another. Bradham takes the running back), and Kendal Smith looks to be mirroring the QB. I wish I could offer better analysis, but Mangum plays this so poorly that there just isn't much time to see the play. In any case, here's the look at the snap:
Mangum has the slot receiver, Travis Benjamin.
Mangum is still not in the picture, which is disappointing. Benjamin is extremely fast. Where is Mangum?
I had to rewind the tape ablout 10 times, but this is the first step Mangum took. Literally, he stood there flat-footed until Benjamin's 6th step. Benjamin has all the momentum, and he is faster than Mangum. Mangum might think he can just turn Benjamin too the deep safety, but at this point, his technique is so bad that the safety will be of little help. And that is exactly what happened:
Yeah, that's Benjamin looking up for the ball, 4 yards past Manum even after slowing up. Mangum showed possibly the worse technique ever displayed by a DB. There is a chance that Mangum thought he was playing another coverage, but to be honest, I can't figure out what that would be. And neither could his teammates. Bradham and the other defenders ripped into Mangum, he tried to explain himself, they told him he was wrong, and I captured this image as Mangum says "my bad", while slapping his head.
TD Miami and it was way too easy. But there is also a Mickey Andrews problem here. FSU simply cannot let a rover man-up on a receiver, much less an awful player like Mangum. That's a mismatch.
Observations:
FSU did not take care of business on 1st and 2nd down: The 'Noles faced 39 plays during these 6 drives. Only three were of the 2nd & 8+ or 3rd & 5+ variety. Because FSU did not force these teams into predictable down and distances, the 'Noles were kept off balance because the opposing offenses had the option to run or pass, which they did.
Big Plays: This ties in with the point above, but when a defense puts itself in bad situations, it will surrender big plays. Of the 39 plays FSU faced on these 6 drives, many resulted in big gains, including: 40, 39, 38, 32, 23, 20, 20, 19, 18, 17, 14, 12, 11, 11, and 11 yards. An amazing 15 of 39 plays went for 10+ yards!
What are your thoughts? Do you notice any trends? Think you know where we are going with this analysis?
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Yards on 1st down appear to be horrible
I recall last year begging for mercy on each drive… just let them score quickly. It was painful to watch 8 yards on 1st down and then two or more runs between the tackles. This killed the clock and gave them huge clock advantages. It also opened their playbook up completely. Get >6 yards on 1st down and now you can take shots down the field.
The big plays and inconsistencies were such a big deal last season. I can remember several drives where we would allow short, managable yardages only to completely breakdown on the very next play and allow 20+. I can only imagine how much it killed morale on the defense to know that even if you did your job correctly(IF you did it correctly), someone else was going screw up on the next play and get the whole defense burned.
This ain't gonna be pretty. Bud is setting the bar higher once again with his unique perspective.
>-----:----:------>Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
My kool-aid doesn't taste right.
Kudos once again to TN – where else do you get analysis like this? Looking back at the Lost Decade, it’s no wonder desperate Nole fans paid money to be told that FSU was just a play or two away from salvaging a season and turning around the program.
Thanks for the memories
Seeing the frame by frame recap of the Benjamin TD was doubly painful as it remined me that I separated my shoulder as I jumped up screaming at anyone to cover Benjamin. He was wide-the frick-open.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jul 8, 2010 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
In all seriousness though great analysis.
This is why you are the best.
>>>-----------;;;-->CP7 for Heisman>>>-----------;;;-->
You Playstation all-Americans...
Think you understand football. But you don’t get it. These ain’t just pictures on a screen, they good people. That there Mangum kid had such a good heart and loved Jesus. I saw him loving on Jesus myself…
But seriously, I enjoyed the analysis. It was informative, and also helped verbalize many of the thoughts I had during these drives. The images corresponding to the commentary were a bonus. Thanks for the specifics and basic statistical breakdown.
by FLpanhandler on Jul 8, 2010 9:47 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
This breakdown explains
why in every projection of what our new defense might do I say I am just hoping the added size allows us to control the point of attack. Allowing favorable down and distances killed us the entire season and was a much bigger problem than lack of sacks or turnovers.
Exactly
FSU produced a ton of turnovers.
FSU forced more turnovers than UNC, VTech, and Miami!
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I beg to differ.....
I dont think FSU “forced” more turnovers. I think teams just happen to give us the ball more times then they did for other teams.
Team GOLD
Agreed
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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No doubt
sacks and turn overs will come with unvarable downs and distances for opposing offenses. We were so bad up front that we would have been better off running that crazy one DT blitz scheme every other first down just to have a chance to start off on better footing at least some of the time.
Giddy-up!
Great breakdown
This is exactly what I was refering to in my “How Did You Find TN?” post. Bud, I thoroughly appreciate the work you and other editors put in to producing material that educates our fanbase.
I can only hope that when you become an associate next year, you’ll never put the firm first before our needs. You won’t, right?
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jul 8, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions
great article
i think a lot of fans need to be brought back down to earth and realize exactly how bad we were last year and that it’s not an overnight fix..
A lot of people’s expectations are running wild right now and analysis like this certainly adds some perspective.
Rovers on slots
Wasn’t Mangum brought in as a corner out of high school? I know he really has taken a lot of heat for last season. (Not saying it’s not deserved). I just would have thought/hoped that he would be better in coverage than a “true rover” which I think of as being more linebacker than defensive back.
My suspicision is, so much of the problems in the secondary was that there were few, if any, alternatives. So, he kept getting thrown out there.
I suppose the answer to that is, “look, if you can’t play man, you have to play zone.” Which it would appear that FSU will be doing a lot more of in 2010.
The question becomes though, if you can’t put a rover on a slot, who do you put on them? Does that mean, you simply must play zone against 4 wide sets? Personally, I hope not. I think that defensively, you have to be able to change it up and not sit in zone exclusively against a team that actually watches film and has an eye in the pressbox any more than you can exclusively play man against said sets.
Regardless of what we do in the secondary, a better pass rush, both off the edge and in the interior will do wonders for the coverage as I believe that “everything effects everything.”
Depends on the slot and the rover
Certainly you don’t want Mangum, knowing what we know about him, on Travis Benjamin.
There’s more than one zone, as you know, and you can mix those up as well.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I think that's it rare that an offense attacks one zone much differently from another
At least, philosophically. Against zone, you find holes and sit in them. Against man, you try and run away from it.
Agreed that Mangum could not run with Bennie and shouldn’t have been asked to.
It’s always intrigued me how so many def coordinators will insist on corners playing the outside receiver, regardless of who it is and then work their way inside.
I’d have to go back and look to see who the split end was to Bennie’s side but I would wager that whoever it was, I would have preferred to see Mangum covering him in man and that corner being on the slot, i.e., Bennie, than the way we did it.
It was a horrible matchup, no doubt. When Whipple asked Harris to read the defense, what he meant was, “find 22 and throw at him.”
Hopefully, that’s about to change. I think that it is. We’ll find out in two months!
Yeah or even Kendall trying to cover James outside that one time.
They should be able to switch off with more freedom.
Giddy-up!
RE: attacking all zones the same
I don’t necessarily agree. Yes, you find the holes, but you need to know where to find them. As opposed to what we were running last year that gave opposing offenses a very easy pre-snap look.
And absolutely agree that some teams should go safeties outside of corners! Don’t be afraid to be different.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Just talking basic philosophy here
QB/Receivers need to know cover 2 versus 3 and the holes are in different places. And I think you need to attack 2 by splitting the safeties deep, which tends to open up the spaces in the middle more versus 3, square in/ curl. But when it comes time to teach that, I think that’s not too difficult.
I just don’t want to see us get in a situation where we can only play one way because if it doesn’t work, where do you turn?
Pre-snan reads against us are easy, no doubt. But I also think that’s one of the benefits of playing the 4 wide stuff we see so much now. Makes the presnap reads easier PLUS it gives offenses the ability to use motion to force coverages to reveal themselves.
As to “matching up” on defense, DCs are terrified of confusion in the secondary. Confusion causes people to think, which causes them to stand around while receivers take six steps to their zero, (not that I think that 22 was confused necessarily but it would be easy to reach that conclusion, I think).
DCs also love to keep the field balanced. My preference is, keep the field balanced in relation to the offense rather than, keeping it balanced in relation to the width of the field.
This will Change
Jimbo wants to be multiple. Therefore he wants to get to the point where the pre-snap reads aren’t easy.
Team GOLD
Disagree about the zone
Some will attempt to find a hole and sit there. Others will attempt to overload a deep half or 3rd of the field. Others will run a route to pull a defender away and clear space for a trailing receiver. If also attack Cover 2, 3 and 4 differently based on how many and what kind of defenders are in a specific area.
Also CBs usually stick to the outside man for simplicity. You are adding more checks and potential headaches if the kids in your secondary have to completely switch responsibilities based not only on formation but where certain players line up in those formations.
by osceolafan2.0 on Jul 8, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm slow to criticize specific players
But I do wonder what on earth the reasoning was behind Mangum not moving until T. Benjamin was right up next to him. I hadn’t noticed that before. Perhaps he was THAT worried about TB getting a short underneath ball, but you can’t expect to go step-for-step with that kind of speed when you’re getting a late start. Ridiculous.
He was making sure
Yarborough was in the right position….
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Revisionist history, right? Now, Mangum looks like he was simply trying to do too much: check on Yar, cover his own man, what else?
Check on Yar, Cover his own man
Decide which coach was yelling which play to run…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not using Moody or Demps was ridiculous. MAJOR conflict of interest
A lame duck DC has no interest in developing kids for the future. He plays the guy he thinks will be the best in the moment (even if the evaluation was awful).b
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Myron
I know Myron didn’t pile up a ton of stats – but he had very good ability and was obviously very very smart and clearly we missed him in 2009. Not saying we wouldn’t have still had a train wreck of a defense – but I think many of the plays that Mangum got burned on would not have happened with Myron in there.
Sad to say that Mickey apparently required his rover to be a freakin Oxford candidate in order to make his defense work.
by GraniteStateNoles on Jul 8, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
System wasnt the issue
Mickey’s system is not over complex. If anything it was too simple. Majority of the time, find a guy who no one else is covering and run around the field with him until the whistle blows. No oxford scholarship require. Mangum was just a terrible player: average athletic ability, bad instincts, no concept of pursuit angles or tackling form, and inability to read plays. He prob. couldn’t walk on for the Gaytors. In a recruiting state like Florida, why play a guy who doesn’t get it, when there are so many kids who can run and hit?
The guys told the media off the record that they were confused and frustrated
It seems the system was fragmented and the coaches did a very poor job communicating both the goal and the finer points of how to accomplish that goal.
And yes, Mangum was awful and should have been benched or non-renewed.
But the system was a major issue. Nobody is doing what FSU did anymore. Way too many capable athletes running around.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I don't think ANYONE can play man most of the time given the advent of modern offenses and growing numbers of serviceable athletes.
It’s a little true that we don’t have the talent we once did when we played man with high success, but it’s also true that our opponents on average seem to have a bit more, and schemes have gotten so much better offensively. It’s way too easy to find and pick on the weakest link in man coverage now days.
Giddy-up!
I am surprised to hear our passing down defense was better.
As your discussion suggests, it seems like even when we forced passing downs, we could not get stop the opposition, especially if they had anything resembling a real passing offense (and even more expecially if they had a tight end that could get on the backside of the coverage).
What you don't see is the stops we did get
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Or in the case of Georgia tech
None of them?
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
FSU did break serve. And I knew it was over…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
We got a stop
Or rather, a fumble recovery. And the recoverer of the fumble then fumbled.
That doesn’t happen often….
Great analysis..
Bud, This is why I am cancelling my subscription to Warchant. This site is slowly gaining readers, and the timing of info is becoming better and better. Thanks for putting that 10.00 a month back into my pocket. Its like you instituted your own stimulus program..
#22 was a Nole so I respect him for putting on the Garnet and Gold
However I wish he would have told Mickey that he didn’t want to play anything other then special teams. Dwayne Allen’s TD brought back terrible memories and looking at the play of our line… we are so small.
were so small
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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He might be the worst Fla St. Player i can remember
I’m 25, graduated in 03 and have been watching for as long as i can remember. I have never seen a starter be so bad. He consistently was out of position and taking bad angles. The Clemson TD video features him running himself right out of position to make a play. I honestly believe we win 2 more games(def. the BC game) last year if Mickey would have shut him down and put younger, more talented players on the field. We could have Nick Moody or Terrance Parks with a half year of more of starts under their belts. With all respect to Mickey, the decision to play a guy just because he has a “Sr.” next to his name really hurt us then and is going to have effects now.
by DoubleNickel on Jul 8, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, even Gerald Demps
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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The poor judgment B Bowden showed with his coaching personel decsions over the last ten years
is staggering – compared to the prior successes he had – however, he is due credit for Trickett and Jimbo during that time is he not?
I give TK and Terry credit for Jimbo and Jimbo/ Terry credit for Rick
I can’t honestly believe that Bobby was keeping up with the hot assistants across the country. Terry knew Jimbo from the Auburn ties and Rick as well.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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The pattern being that
when Bobby hired guys on his own or without someone else doing it for him, they were pretty bad. When he had a lot of help, they were not bad.
It’s not that hard to get good people. Hiring someone with no experience to coach at FSU should not happen (Dex, Jody).
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jul 8, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Remember that BS line that some apologists were using when it was clear Bowden no longer had a role as a coach?
Something like, “the assistant coaches coach the players; it’s Bobby’s job to coach the coaches.” Yeah…. not sure how much Jody and Dexter learned about coaching.
Terry Bowden
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Great breakdown!
I think size up front will help tremendously. Also there are a lot of zone schemes that can take away short and middle passes, while leaning on the run at the same time.
I assume we will see a lot more 2nd and 8+
That being the case it semes from the info above we may be better deffensively than we thought if we can get in those situations more often….e.g. we forced turnovers with offenses ahead of the chains, how many more could we force with them behind the chains? Perhaps we already had plamakers and they just weren’t being put in position to succeed.
PS we weren’t even running man covearage right. Even as bad as man is to run we could have game planned MUCH better and gotten in better situations at least 1/3 of the time more ofter
Giddy-up!
Yep. if you play man you better play it really well and that did not happen.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Kevin Steele
that was a good hire too – but I think that was it. (although he didn’t seem to be good on special teams – comared to J Allen he was a genious – but I recall not being impressed with Steele). Kines was a big name but was not productive in my opinion.
You're right. Kevin was a very good hire
I’m not sure what to think of Steele’s special teams. Kines was a terrible recruiter.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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I don't know if he had any ties to FSU, but he was a HC prior to coming to FSU...
so that’s probably part of the reason why he got the job. Ask fans from Waco, TX about Kevin Steele, and they might spit on you. They hate that guy out there.
It is shocking in retrospect - (I was younger and dumber at the time)
that the lack of production we got in coaching after a change of QB coach in 2001 and at DE when Gladden left – did not result in a change of coaches at those positions
Just how bad were we on 1st down defense in 2009?
Based on conference games (ranking based on conference-only numbers compared nationally)
Passing Defense on 1st Downs:
16 TDs (120th WORST IN THE COUNTRY)
43 1st downs given up (77th)
32 15+ yard gains (104th)
18 25+ yard gains (T-120th WORST IN THE COUNTRY)
Rushing Defense on 1st Downs:
6.40 YPC (117th)
12 TDs (99th)
43 1st downs given up (113th)
46 10+ yard gains (114th)
20 20+ yard gains (120th — WORST IN THE COUNTRY)
Source: www.cfbstats.com
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
by ricobert1 on Jul 8, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Good Lord
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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by Bud Elliott on Jul 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is NO WAY we will repeat anything close to these numbers, even in 2010
If this isn’t an outright indictment of getting out-schemed and out-coached (1st downs, people!), I don’t know what is.
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
forget the rah rah
speeches in the locker room. Just post this on every defensive players locker before each game. Was it all their fault last year? No. But do they want to repeat those god awful stats? I’m guessing no to that too.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet these fools on TheTerritory continually thought it was the players and not the coaches
Their contention is essentially that we had worse players than:
Eastern Michigan
Rice
New Mex State
Wash St
W. Kentucky
Can you even name any players from these teams? None of them had a draft choice. I can’t even name the cities of 3 of them.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Bud
Where are you on Mark Stoops – Whether or not you think he is the guy – do you think he has the track record as a coach for us to be confident he can produce a top 20 defense? He may be the guy- but I am unable to look at his history and determine that he got the job done. Being DC for his brother’s UA team is kind of like being OC for Jimbo or Spurrier – it is difficult to say the units success (or failure) is his as opposed to the HC who is hands on with that unit.
This contrasts with Hudson – who in my opinion has the history of success – in that he was the DC on a team where the HC was offensive minded and therefore it is clearer to me Hudson is a part of the Defense’s success.
I like the hire
He did a very nice job at Miami
Well respected within the coaching community and came recommended by both Will Muschamp and Bo Pelini
If you want to give him the credit for turning around an Arizona program that was just awful before they got there, that’s up to you, but it is not as if he hadn’t worked elsewhere with excellent success before. I’m particularly impressed with the play of his defensive backs, at USF, Wyoming, Miami, and Arizona, with multiple all-conference players and NFl guys at every stop. He’s been schooled by a LOT of really good defensive minds.
Hudson is more rah rah and did have good defenses at ECU. I think stoops is a better fit here, however, because he has a lot more experience and understands coverages better.
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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Do you think that is the key to being a good DC
scheming secondary coverages? If so, how does that jive with a linebackers coach being a good DC?
I think it's much better to be a LB or a DB coach than a DL coach
Don’t see many DL coaches as great DCs. Largely because DL coaching is very Micro and LB/ DB coaching is more Macro.
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in other words
LB/DB coaching has much more to do with the over all scheme of the defense yeah?
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Do you think
Hudson came to be groomed for DC when Stoops leaves (assuming if he has decent/great success?) for a “step up?”
by StM on Jul 9, 2010 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions
That is my impression of why he'd take a lateral move here; that he's our DCIW
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
Perhaps there's at least some hope. Here are Arizona's 1st-down defensive numbers for 2007-2009:
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
Efficiency numbers
ZOna was 35th last year, we were 88th.
Zona 30th on standard downs, FSU 100th
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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here is how it went
1) Can’t stop run, even with 8 in the box.
2) Can’t stop pass when selling out to play the run.
3) Can’t even force a third down when giving up almost 6.5 yds per carry on first down.
FSU was tied for 19th in fewest 3rd down conversion attempts, and 101st in stopping opponents on third down.
Correction: Those are for all games, not just conference
(couldn’t get them to double sort by conference games AND 1st down statistics)
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
I went to post something simliar earlier
but apparently I hit preview instead of post and I lost what I was writing.
Excellent post.
FSU's 2009 Defense gave up a 20+ yard rushing gain once every 10 first downs against
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
The only reason we crack 100th on 1st downs given up for Passing Defense is because we gave up so many (at least 52) 15+ yard gains on 1st downs. There are fewer first downs available on a 100 yard field when you allow >15 yards per 1st down. Who knows how many big plays we gave up on 2nd and 3rd. We didn’t force many 4th downs.
Anyone know how many 4th downs we forced?
in conference, 41. (28 punts and 13 go-for-its)
Ponder lacks arm strength? Think again.
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The good news
Less than 58 days before we see the unveiling of the 2010 new and improved defense (and the CP7 Heisman run, of course).
No doubt
And I’m really glad they get to be unleashed on a cream puff team first. No trial by fire. Solid warm up game.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Jul 8, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This Series makes for some nasty tasting kool aid
Much needed as we move closer to the season. The more we see how bad it was, the more we should hedge our expectations for the defense’s production (and the team rankings we’ll be checking on every week) in 2010.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jul 8, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No
In fact I think this series provides great tasting kool-aid. And reminds us of what the kool-aid we were drinking tasted like. Seriously its like upgrading from an rusted out buick to a 2 year old ford focus. The Focus will have its problems cause its a Ford but its light years ahead of the buick.
Team GOLD
by fsugrizz on Jul 8, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And it doesn't look like the new owner will let his son drive it straight off a cliff.
FSU Football 2010: "Everyone gets a playbook."
by ricobert1 on Jul 8, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I saw that response coming
And I think its both. Gives a lot of hope bc coaching had to have been such a huge factor, but also should inform us that it took time to get that bad and it will take time to get that good again.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jul 8, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
BUD,(and the rest of you guys), forgive me
for asking, ( consider the 60 year old fart source), but do you get paid for all this? Are you still in school? I’m sitting here in shock. I’ve bought the preseason glossy mags for over 20 years now and offhand I can’t remember a more detailed, thorough article.( and hell i had to PAY for those). KUDOS, KUDOS to all of you writers. once again…….GREAT SITE.!
by OLDNOLE60 on Jul 8, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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