2010 Seminoles to feature one of the heaviest safety groups in CFB
by ricobert1 on Aug 21, 2010 1:32 PM EDT
Email
PrintThe need to get bigger has been well chronicled (and first heralded by Bud Elliot) here at TN. Do yourself a favor and read the "Size Matters" articles pinnned along the side of the website and make liberal use of the "Search" function. Then take a look at the following:
FSU’s projected starting safeties:
Nick Moody – 6’2" – 228 lbs.
Terrance Parks – 6’2" – 218 lbs.
vs. 2009 starting backfield:
Mangum – 6’0" 200 lbs.
J. Robinson – 6’2" 188 lbs.
vs. projected starting backfields from around the league:
LSU
Brandon Taylor | 6-0, 191, So., 1V
Jai Eugene | 5-11, 182, Jr., 2V
Bama:
Mark Barron | 6-2, 210, Jr., 2V
Robert Lester | 6-2, 206, So., 1V
BC:
Marty Bowman | 6-2, 217, Jr., 3V
Wes Davis | 6-1, 221, GS1., 2V
UF:
Ahmad Black | 5-9, 190, Sr., 2V
Will Hill | 6-1, 207, Jr., 2V
UM:
Joseph Nicolas | 6-1, 205, Jr., 3V
Vaughn Telemaque | 6-2, 207, So., 2V
OSU:
Orhian Johnson | 6-2, 203, So., 1V
Jermale Hines | 6-1, 216, Sr., 3V
TCU:
Alex Ibiloye | 6-0, 190, Sr., 3V
Tejay Johnson | 6-1, 212, Sr., 3V
Clemson:
Rashard Hall | 6-1, 190, So., 1V
DeAndre McDaniel | 6-1, 200, Sr., 3V
(Source: Rivals)
That's an astounding 60 lbs. difference in safety size from 2009 to 2010 for FSU, and anecdotally heavier than many other major CFB safety groups. This reflects a fundamental difference in personnel philosophy at the safety position. Moody did see action last year, but not enough, especially when considering who was above him on the depth chart ^shudder^.
Look for Stoops to demonstrate the same base coverages he employed against heavy-spread offenses such as Oregon: Cover 3, and Cover 4.
Arizona is in a 4-3 alignment here, but both safeties are within 10-12 yards of the LOS scrimmage. This is classic quarters coverage: 2 CBs and 2 S have deep zone coverages, with each player responsible for "1/4" of the deep field. With so many bodies guarding deep, the safeties can creep up to potentially help in run support.
Later in the game, same alignment, same philosophy regarding safety depth: They are available to help underneath. And to hit.
UA commits more guys to the box here to give a 4-4 look; most likely the SS has walked up into the box. This is what a 4-3 Cover 3 eventually looks like as a play develops. UA has just chosen to give this look pre-snap.
All of this is just to say that the safeties will be active in the run game, and they'll be bringing 60 more pounds with them this year.
84 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I'm waiting for someone to claim that FSU will actually increase their safety position's weight by 200 lbs. from last year
seeing that Mangum was virtually nowhere to be found on the field during play.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
by ricobert1 on Aug 21, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Funny
Although, not entirely Mangum’s fault. Dawkin’s recent quote of “Last year the coaches depended on us using our athleticism to make plays” completely eliminated Mangum’s chances of being a good player for FSU.
by BenDNole on Aug 21, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
ZING!
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 21, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll tell you what, guys,
I just can’t ridicule any kid who played under that coaching staff, regardless how much talent he had or didn’t have. Every one of those kids was betrayed, while the coaches made a lot of money off those kids.
proud graduate of the Uncle Rico Quarterback Camp
by PeachTreeNole on Aug 21, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There is, unfortunately, something to this
If Mangum wasn’t properly coached, he can’t be held totally accountable. The staff failed him and the other players.
Can I still blame Kyler Hall for sucking? I'm not sure I can let that one go just yet.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Rec'd Fiesta
As much as Mangum made my blood pressure go up, I can’t totally blame him after learning how inept our coaches were. Our coaches have a responsibility, develop the players and put them in position to win. Neither of which our coaches did.
by TCHOP561 on Aug 21, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Our coaches were so inept...
that they actually put Mangum on the field. They didn’t bother evaluating our talent- but just went with seniority (or so it seems).
Thanks for posting.
Would have been better without cheap shots at an ex player, but it’s nice to think that our DB cupboard had players who are decent fits for Stoops schemes.
by norcal_nole on Aug 21, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree. Just trying to take the air out of the bash balloon
that is sure to commence anytime the 2009 defense is mentioned.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
I have no problem with a joke here and there
for a kid that just couldn’t figure it out. As vanilla and simple as FSU’s schemes were (not saying they were good ones) the player in question was always in the wrong spot, and his teammates let him know it more than once…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 21, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But you can't have a "wrong spot"...
…if a “right spot” doesn’t exist. One can argue, no play book and no zone, no “right spots”. After the ball is snapped, “go get ’em” is the antithesis of “be in the right place.” There is no right place when there are effectively no zone principles in your scheme. Am I right (and, more importantly, are you wrong? :-) ).
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
who cares about “cheap shots”…..when does words hurt REAL men? Norca_Nole, I think Football players can handle it. We dont need a polite police on TN.
Then I assume you don't mind me pointing out that your grammar is worse than Nigel Carr's judgement.
It has nothing to do with being polite. It has everything to do with blaming the right person. All Mangum did is what the coaches asked him to do. He didn’t have D1 talent, nor did he have D1 coaching. He was put into positions where he was destined to fail and told to go make plays and be tough. And the coaches didn’t do shit about it. Rip them.
by norcal_nole on Aug 21, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Just wondering
I was just thinking about our current roster and it seems as if our safeties are almost as big as our LBs and close to our DE’s size. This uniformity(or close to it) in size must have Hudson and Stoops drooling at the variety of blitzes/zones that they can come up with. But, they maybe too busy installing the base D this year. Just a thought.
by NoleySmokes on Aug 21, 2010 1:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
20+ pounds isn't close
Our safeties will be around 210-220 but our LBs will be around 250 and our DEs will be around 270 with many around 280. There will be zone blitzing as a way to confuse QBs but the players will not be interchangeable in space. Just will be a tactic to confuse the OL and hope the QB doesn’t figure it out so skill players are abusing DEs in space.
by osceolafan2.0 on Aug 21, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Will be
Our LBs and DEs aren’t there yet…
by NoleySmokes on Aug 22, 2010 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's also good to know that Vic won't let them get slow as they get bigger
I really like his emphasis on explosiveness. Good stuff. Seems like we will have better vision on the play instead of individuals and with the athleticism of what we already have and are developing, they are going to close very quickly on the play. My projection is pain.
I'll play devil's advocate here and mention that
I’m worried we’ve gained a lot of mass (most of which is good, lean mass) and this could hurt overall team agility / change of direction ability.
Also, I’m a little worried at the increased risk of major joint (see: knees) injuries in response to the added size and need to be agile.
Finally, from my own experience, increased muscle mass has made me more prone to muscular dehydration/cramping and pulls/tears. This might be more that I’m a moron and that I haven’t increased flexibility along with increasing lean mass. But still, something I think about for some of them.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
there are some great articles about Vic that talk about his philosophies and techniques on this site
i don’t know where they are exactly, but they talk about how he accounts for these things
Proper strength and conditioning
teaches proper lifting technique and also focuses on utilizing the stabilizer muscles to help strengthen them to help prevent injury. I feel confident that this new S&C program will result in fewer injuries than in previous years despite the added mass.
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Aug 21, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
moreover, increasing flexibility improves lifting. I started adding some flexibility to my routines, and now can do a much deeper range of motion in my deadlifts and squats. Better range of motion – added strength and mass.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Aug 21, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That is a reasonable concern
The added mass shows he plans to use them in the run game, but can be a detriment in coverage.
However I will say that if youre going to sit back in zone coverage the added mass is not nearly as bad to carry as it would be in Cover 10.
True dat
The mass should at least make them better hitters. And I’m sure they’ll be used a lot in run support considering the lack of depth at DT.
The problem there is that we’ll probably be very susceptible to the deep ball again.
BTW, love the site, especially the strategy stuff. It’s a shame that more Clemson fans don’t know about you guys.
Very few home runs
With the zone coverages and the changes in position and personnel in our 2-deep, opposing teams should expect very few home runs.
Added pressure from the front seven should also help eliminate the big play.
And this year, we’ll actually be playing 11-on-11, meaning that I believe Stoops has eliminated the Mangum position.
Not all mass is created the same.
Trust in Vic. These boys are not just getting bigger & stronger……………..they are getting bigger/stronger/more explosive/more athletic/healthier.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Coach Vic seems to know his stuff
I’d assume that with the increased muscle mass, Coach Vic knows how important maintaining great flexability is. I believe he touches on that topic in a video that was posted recently about the new S&C program.
That's if Moody plays
Insert Jenije in the lineup as a safety and we drop off a bit.
Fair enough
But Harley (212) and Demps (206) may be in the mix, too, so it shouldn’t be too much of a drop-off.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
yeah isn't jumbo elam..........
Er nick moody injured? Do you have the straight scoop on that or what?
......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!
Depends how bad it is.
3 different degrees. Could be a week, could be 8.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 22, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My impression
was that Jenije was playing safety in certain packages – seems I read Rhodes will play some safety as well in some nickel packages.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Aug 21, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I could be wrong, but we really aren't trading size for speed are we?
If we are, then we might as well have Bradham move for safety because there’s no question he has speed.
I am curious to know whether Viloria has helped any of the guys improve their speed as well as size. Rolle was saying that his speed increased the year he sepnt at Oxford as he worked with T-Buck to stay in shape.
I'll argue that the issue is not trading off speed for size
but rather agility for size.
It’s harder to stop and start the bigger you are, in my mind.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
If we were trading some size for agility
I would think the added eyes on the ball that the zone will bring would allow us to be more of a gang tackling team. So even if the first player is not agile enough to make the tackle the rest of the team will box the player in and stop him. Under Mickey’s scheme the agility had to be there because if you miss the man nobody else may be there for 5-8 yards. Personally I also think our players underdevelopment under the previous regime left them a lot of space to be able to put on good weight without losing mobility. It is almost like the weight a freshman puts on under his first year at a program.
by osceolafan2.0 on Aug 21, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting point
Makes me think of some of the bigger defenders in the ACC. BC/Maryland has had linebackers for years that just aren’t that agile. But their play diagnosis ability is so honed that they more than made up for being less agile than opposing ball carriers.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
BC/Maryland had big LB's who weren't the caliber of athlete that FSU currently has/will have.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Adding the proper training makes you MORE explosive at a higher weight, not less.
They are getting that now.
Oderint Dum Metuant
I recall in HS, the best sprinters were guys with huge thighs.
Speaking of which, how has Luc come along in developing his other half / lower body and in flexing his hips / pass coverage?
How about trading off...
low momentum for high momentum in the form of greater speed and more mass with no loss in agility ? More fat almost certainly makes us slower and less flexible, but more lean muscle doesn’t necessarily imply loss of flexibility and it certainly doesn’t imply a loss of speed, though it can. To Jimbo’s credit, he hired one of the best in the business and he’s talking flexibility/agility so I’m betting he’s walking it too. All the players seemed thrilled with their new bodies and Jimbo is fighting the urge (according to reports from the luncheon) to really get in Urban’s face. I would guess our coach’s confidence is coming from what he sees in size + performance on the practice field. Cool.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
Walk softly, Jimbo....
AND CARRY A BIG FREAKIN’ STICK! Preferably a Gator whoopin stick!
by BornToChop on Aug 21, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Does anyone remember
Back in 2008 when we played Wisconsin, how much talk there was about Wisconsin’s size vs FSU’s speed. Well, now we’ve got Wisconsin’s size and FSU’s speed. Hehehe. Awesome ain’t it?
moody is a big dude
saw him at fan day and he was jackedd
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
by jfree on Aug 21, 2010 3:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bradham is equally frightening
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Aug 21, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
no doubt
imagine being a wr crossing the middle and getting stuck by nigel and cleaned by moody, he’s gonna tell the qb no more of thatt haha
"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley
by jfree on Aug 21, 2010 11:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there's NO way Mangum weighed 200 lbs.
Unless a bruised ego weighs 14 pounds.
by The K-Man on Aug 21, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 5 recs
haha rec fiesta
Kman always brings the guacamole
noles, marlins, phins
by NorthernHaze on Aug 21, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Process
Thats what it is all about.
Thank God for the men and women who stand tall in the night to protect this great country we love so much
Last year was not typical though
Just a year before Myron rolle was one of the leading tacklers. The younger safeties obviously did not look ready last year and it hurt.
by nolestuff on Aug 21, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
LOL 228 and 212
Nobody can stand against us, the process continues. Give me another Guiness black. Have I predicted 10 wins yet again?
Will somebody please kick the football off!
Bring back Peter Tom Willis
Ann say hello to the grand kids
Ugh sometimes typying on mobile devices
Stinks.
Anyways, mangum did have d1 talent to be an ok cb. He was moved to safety out of neccessity. We should be glad the old coaches did not put the younger safeties in to start if not ready bc the on field results may still have been bad and it may have ruined their pysche.
by nolestuff on Aug 21, 2010 10:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Apparently Jenije started the scrimmage at safety
I know nothing!
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
rec'd for being at the right place at the right time!
Where I come from we take your SOD and bury it too!
I think Jenije will do better at Safety
He played CB in a system that was built for man-to-man coverage. Notice how Jenjie led the team in interceptions whenever zone coverages were called, but when man-to-man coverage was called he got burnt worse than toast at Waffle House.
He’s a great guy too, and very athletic. I think he’ll shine in 3-5-3 formations and deep Dime or Nickel packages.
That
and we just have better guys available at corner. But I agree, he is good enough to be on the field somewhere and I think he will make his share of plays this year.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 22, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
wish they would've been there last year
to give Tebow some good licks
urban and Riley Cooper
gave tebow all the licking he could take
by DownByTheRiverWalkinOnWater on Aug 23, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
DB's
anyone know what’s up with Willie Downs?
I keep looking for CJ Mizell in the practice reports.
I figured he’d have made the depth chart go up in smoke by now.
by norcal_nole on Aug 23, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Tomahawk Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SHOP THE TOMAHAWK NATION STORE
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
