Florida State's 6 Defensive Tackles Are 110 Pounds Bigger Than Last Season
by Bud Elliott on Aug 9, 2010 1:00 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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| Defensive Tackle |
2009 | 2010 |
| Mincey | 275 | "Graduated" |
| Stewart | 267 | Graduated |
| Thacker | 270 | Graduated |
| Dawkins | 258 | 283 |
| McDaniel | 287 | 297 |
| McCray | 300 | Injury |
| McCloud | JUCO | 303 |
| McAllister | 258 (redshirt) | 282 |
| Cummings | Recruit | 289 |
| Erving | Recruit | 297 |
| AVG | 276 | 291 |
Back in July when we did our "Size Matters" series, we speculated how big FSU's defensive linemen and linebackers would end up at the conclusion of the off-season program. And considering our guesses factored in projected losses that typically occur during Fall camp, we were really close. Jimbo Fisher talked after practice the other day about the strength gains FSU made this off-season and in particular he discussed the defensive tackles. The chart at right shows the updated weights of the defensive tackles, per Fisher, compared to the numbers for last year.
For purposes of the chart, I did not include players who redshirted last season or who project to redshirt this season in the averages. That means McAllister was not included in the 2009 average and Cam Erving, who I project to redshirt this year, is not in the 2010 average. If I included Erving the number would actually increase, so not having him in helps to eliminate the idea that the numbers are inflated by including players who will not play much this season.
More than 18 lbs per man, or 110 lbs total. That is an extremely impressive change in defensive tackle bulk.
FSU fans are certainly happy to see Demonte McAllister gain 22 lbs since Spring ball ended. Whatever motivational or health issues he was battling are obviously not winning out anymore. And Dawkins' impressive 15 lb gain since Spring has been well documented.
One thing to watch here is Moses McCray's knee. McCray is not projected to be a starter, but he is being counted on to provide quality depth. We'll be monitoring his knee tweak closely to make sure it doesn't turn into something else.
We also know per sources that Brandon Jenkins is over 250 lbs and Dan Hicks is around 260. Fisher also said Vince Williams was 243 and is moving better. Looks as is Williams has trimmed some of that weight off that he added after the back injury.
Other Scrimmage Notes: Redshirt Freshman sensation Xavier Rhodes was working as the first team cornerback opposite Greg Reid. The other major competitor for the job worked some at Safety. I wouldn't read too much into this just yet, as coach Stoops is likely trying to make sure he has guys who can play multiple situations in case of injury or depth concerns. Mike Harris also worked at Boundary corner with Rhodes. Everyone raved about Christian Jones and had a few nice comments about Vince Williams. Mister Alexander was noticeably larger and came on some blitzes, even beating Lonnie Pryor, and Pryor is pretty dependable. The overall message, however, was much bigger the defensive front looked.
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I can hear it now
CJF: “When’s that next damn TN article comin’ out!”
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
This is the biggest we'll be all year
From here till the Florida game it will be a slow attrition in mass. Some of that is improved conditioning and lean mass to fat mass ratio. But mostly, you just do so much work that there aren’t enough hours in the day to keep pounding food = calorie deficit and thus weight loss.
The upside to that is that happens to every team. I noticed that we do not look as “cut” as we have in previous years, but again, I don’t think that’s a problem as the lean:fat mass ratios will improve this month.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
Conditioning versus increased playing weight
Having a playable two-deep for our front 4 is paramount from here forward in light of the increased weight mandate era. The cardiovascular conditioning it takes to perform at a high level increases as body weight increases (perhaps exponentially…DRusso?).
I think from my own experience of how dropping 20 lbs. feels like I’ve got another lung out there (perhaps this is how normal people function?). More weight requires greater exertion and thus requires higher cardiovascular conditioning to perform at the lighter weight. You can achieve a high cardio level at a high weight, but it is (at least) initially at the expense of cardio performance.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
look at a feather weight in boxing
they throw 100 punches a round. A heavy weight would pass out if he tried that – and that is before he gets hit by the other guy – as a skinny guy – I can tell you – the free added endurance is a beautiful thing
If you have 5 or 6 guys who can throw 25 plays per game who are big...
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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That is a great point Bud. Goes right back to the point that we're not looking for "The Man" but a lot of "Grown A$$ Men"
Bring back Korey Mangum — a true Nole!
Thanks for the shout out, lol
There is a reason you do not see huge men competing in endurance events, and why you rarely (if ever) see massively muscular heavyweight fighters, regardless of sport. Carrying around an ENOURMOUS amount of muscle means that your oxygen requirements are insanely high, and the likelihood that you will run out of gas after a few minutes of all out effort (cough Shane Carwin coughcough) is enormously HIGH.
Extra muscle requires extra oxygen, period. Since your lungs to not increase in size/capacity as your muscles do, you have to increase the overall efficiency of your cardiovascular system (“paging Don Viloria”).
As Rico alluded to, playable depth is paramount. Football is not an endurance event. It is a series of short, explosive movement vs resistance….either in the form of opposing players, or the force required to move your own body. This is ESPECIALLY true for DLinmen and, to a lesser extent, LB’s. As such, having large, talented men who can play 2-5/6 ALL OUT consecutive snaps is what you need. I believe FSU is well on it’s way to having that.
I do not believe there is a blanket “increased weight mandate” for the defense, because not all weight is created the same. “Some” fat gain is acceptable (particularly in skinny DT’s), and “some” fat gain provides the benefit of cushioning for the body. MOST of it, however, is bad. More then 5 lbs of pure fat is simply carrying around a bag of shit, slowing you down & hurting your cardio.
(every lb of fat contains nearly a mile of blood vessels)
I would venture to say that, due to the nutrional and S&C upgrades, the VAST majority of weight gain this year has been LBM.
I also take issue with the concept of “cutting during camp” (paraphrasing). Saying that fails to account for a survival technique that is built into our DNA over the last several million years:
When encountering a caloric defecit, the human body will hold onto fat stores for dear life….at the expense of lean muscle mass.
A gram of muscle (protein) contains 4 calories of heat energy.
A gram of fat contains 9 calories of heat energy.
Because fat is a much more effecient means of energy storage, our bodies have evolved to store it at an INCREDIBLY efficient rate.
Oderint Dum Metuant
by DRusso97 on Aug 10, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
People have compared Mister to Kenny Ingram, the converted safety who played linebacker in 2008.
It’s my opinion that Alexander is in superior shape, a top notch athlete.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/410590/mister_and_jermaine.JPG
I thought he had good size in that summer workout video that was making the rounds recently.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
I got sigs from the LB at fan day
And maybe its just that he was sitting between a group of VW, NB, JL, and KS but he was clearly the runt of the litter
Team Gold!
Dekoda always called him mini-me
and the other guys called him Dekoda Jr. or something like that
by Caveman Mafia on Aug 9, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does JT look like he dropped 15 lbs since last year? Is something wrong with him?
Bring back Korey Mangum — a true Nole!
No doubt
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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Thanks S & C program and the nutrition part too.....
I saw on AC’s Choppin Block, and Fisher said Kenny Shaw is up to about 170 now, came in around 150…….I look forward to him seeing the field……….Josh Gehres can be our possession receiver, I guess his build and type receiver(Sticky hands) he will be like, Ed McCaffery
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
McCaffery was the Sh!t
I hope he Gehres steps it up and gets some PT.
If he is catching everything that comes his way
I don’t see how you can’t put him in and let him shine…..I think he will see the field…
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
Vic & Co
This is their big picture plan…They are professionals when it comes to nutrition coupled with strength and conditioning.
We will have the look of a larger team while the players bodies begin to adjust and balance the physical work required with correct nutrition. We will be pleasently surprised come later in the year and many years to come.
Be very proud of our S&C team…they are doing a great job!
So happy!
I like seeing these weight gains so we don’t get manhandled up front as easily. I think we’ll see a big difference in our run defense this season.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
Now that's some good McMuscle in there.
I remember when I ate at the old powder training table I always felt like taking a nap afterwrd. Those were some good steak nuggets though.
Re: Moses...
Sorry if this has been covered here or elsewhere, may have missed it — but did he participate at all in Sunday’s practice? Or is he being held out altogether?
He didn't play one snap
He walked by me in the tunnel to the field with his knee wrapped using a cane as support.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Argh.
A shame that he gets cleared from his heart concerns and now develops a knee issue. Have there been any reports about whether an MRI was scheduled (or anything along those lines)?
I thought McCallister was heart
And McCray was his elbow, no?
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Aug 9, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
McAllister was "heart," as in, desire.
Moses actually had a heart condition diagnosed (Athlete’s heart) that limited how far he could push as a precautionary measure for like 18 mos.
Gotcha
Thought D-Mac had athlete’s heart and that’s why there were concerns about his ability to add weight. Thanks
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Aug 9, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Rhodes
Been so excited about Xavier for months now, really want to see him produce. Can’t wait to do the arms crossed X when he Fortson’s the bajeezus outta some innocent WR.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Aug 9, 2010 2:11 PM EDT reply actions
Rhodes is going to make
an innocent WR fail a drug test?
The verb form of Fortson will never be the same…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Fortson as a verb
I think was intended to reference the times when Jarmon leveled defenders with his blocks or after the ball had been turned over.
Or the way he treated his girlfriend......
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
by goatnole76 on Aug 9, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh I'm aware...
But for me, his name holds a different meaning now. It was a joke. Bad joke, but a joke.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 10, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Size Matters update?
So how do our front 7 match up now with the previous analysis for teams inside/outside the top 20?
by H2OFSU on Aug 9, 2010 2:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Look good in uniforms
Glad to hear they look good in their uniforms, however until they make stops in Norman, I can’t help but remember last year’s defense which was TERRIBLE! Worst I’ve ever seen. We were an F- defense last year, a major improvement would be a C+ performance in 2010. Am I in the minority here?
by CoconutGroveNole on Aug 9, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
if this is a C+ defense that's been going toe to toe with our experienced offense so far,
then we’re in a heap of trouble.
more mayonnaise... lotsa' mayonnaise!
by PeachTreeNole on Aug 9, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That brings up a good general question.
Despite clear improvement that’s been noted on the D, is the offense generally coming out on top? How wide is the margin?
Can any of the folks that attended chime in?
We could
but I think there’s an inherent flaw with extrapolating about the state of the O or D based on one practice, and that being the 4th of the pre-season.
Everything reported here is anecdotal. That is, what is more important is the state and progression of each unit as we progress through pre-season practice.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
My guess is that our offense is being extremely basic right now in attacking our defense. I am certain we are making improvement but Jimbo is smart enough to know people need to see success to really start believing in something. To have out O go out there and use our entire playbook to confuse and frustrate a defense we are trying to build up does nothing productive.
Agreed
it reminds me last year of the # of picks that Jamie Robinson had in practice…. and then the season started
by StM on Aug 9, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But Jamie Robinson played his part in FSU folklore (credit to K-man) along with Ponder and Owens.
It was his INT that setup the 98yd TD pass vs UNC that sparked the offense and may have kept our bowl streak alive.
From what I understand, it was clearly evident that the defense was getting MOWED by the offense last year in practice.
I’m simply asking whether this was the case or not, as one point of observation among many that we will use to temper expectations (positive or negative) for the season.
Hard to tell from one practice.
Jimbo said that they were going run basic plays, so the offense wasn’t close to throwing the playbook at the D. The D was getting mowed last year.
Redshirt Freshman sensation Xavier Rhodes???
you are the man Bud – but where is that coming from?
huh?
What is the question?
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
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I dont understand the comment – how is he a sensation. He was a three star guy- he hasn’t played a down and while he llokod solid in the spring game – I don’t understand the comment – and I think I have read most of your stuff
The coaches raved about him all last year and throughout his whole time here.
Fisher called him a first round pick and said by the time he declares for the draft he would rather be his agent than his coach.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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What was D Docketts playing weight at FSU?
He may be the exception that proves the rule
sub-300 for sure. 285-290 as I recall.
I think he beefed up for the NFL combine and got up to around 300, though.
think that's right.
nm
more mayonnaise... lotsa' mayonnaise!
by PeachTreeNole on Aug 9, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is Bunk's, though I thought he was closer to 300 his final year..and I thought
the bios usually inflated numbers, but maybe that is just height haha
http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bunkley_brodrick00.html
by nolestuff on Aug 9, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bunkley weighed in at or close to 300 at combine, but hadn't played at that weight.
I remember everyone freaking out about his 40 time as a 300 lber.
I'm thinking 306 pounds.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
Asfar as size goes
according to one of those pay sites with some free articles, a free article cites:
Offensive tackle Zebrie Sanders is up to an all-time high of 307, up from 288
Offensive guard David Spurlock (300) and defensive end Dan Hicks (260) gained 14 pounds apiece.
Safety Ed Imeokparia is up 14 pounds to 208.
Linebacker Mister Alexander put on 10 pounds and stands 237.
Receiver Taiwan Easterling added eight pounds and now weighs 200.
Among freshmen:
Defensive tackle Darious Cummings (289) “looks much bigger than during his senior year of high school”.
Offensive lineman Dan Foose 273 - looks like lost weight.
Tank Sessions (252) and Will Tye (254) “look every bit of Division-I tight ends already”.
Chad Abram (215) is " bigger than some of the veteran safeties".
And this observation “The best part of it is none of these guys look overweight.”
Think Trickett wants to build him up and make sure he is flexible.
That’s my only guess.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I thought I even remembered Trickett saying something about him
needing to lose weight prior to coming here. something like “you can pay me now, or pay me later.”
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
Little Footman is 260!1!!1
Wow, that’s some kind of beef for a third string DE
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Aug 10, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't give a flying crap about any of this right now compared to...
Moses McCray’s knee!!!??!!!! it’s been 2 or 3 days now!!!! What is the status on him? Why can;t they just confirm whether or not it’s a torn ACL?!?! That is worrying the crap out of me!!!
Sorry to be so panicky but we need him in the rotation for depth and he is a big run stuffer. Bud, Nolethruandthru, somebody give me som friggin news!
I think they need to
let swelling to go down.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Aug 9, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember when I tore my ACL
I had the MRI results within two days. I waited a month before surgery to have the swelling go donw and get some pre-therapy before the surgery
by FEARTHESPEAR! on Aug 9, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Praying it's not a tear or anything serious....
Just the thought of having to have an MRI got me preparing for the worse…
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
I saw that too......
They said later this week, but it really was done on Monday…….I guess they was talking about the results, later this week..
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
My MRI machine is in the shop
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Aug 9, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Adding weight
The type of weight gained is important, not the weight itself.
adding 12 pounds of fat means very little
according to the blog post I cited above
The best part of it is none of these guys look overweight.
And given that pre-season these guys will work off a little weight, having fat to work off is better than losing muscle. You want a little give for two a days.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Aug 9, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well well well I feel like I can smile again
This is good. Its going to be nice to see our Def this year. Also If they can do this in just an off season Im sure this will be the norm from here on out. I know players are not going to gain 22lb every year but at least the coaches have people that can get much needed improvemnet. I would like to know if that is something that goes into recruting. I know we want the better players but if you can get a top 5 guy that plays D-line but is smaller and dont have the fram do you get him or go after a 50+ guy thats ok but can add more weight. Is there a line here or something else that goes into it.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Des that is an excellent question
I know the coaches struggle over what guys to take. It’s not easy deciding.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Maybe I missed this somewhere
but has Cummings officially grown into a DT? Is that where he’s been working?
Yes, he exploded and is now just a hair shy of 290.
I don’t think anyone expected him to get that strong that quick.
This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Aug 10, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW, The athletic dept's official website
is listing Cummings as a “DL”. Dawkins and McAllister also lists as "DL"s. All other defensive front four players are listed as DE or DT.
Just speculating, but maybe it is a tipoff that Stoops and company have some different formations that see those three sometimes on the interior and sometimes at DE. Maybe some situational defenses have them out there – a 3-4 or goal line defense have them at DE to add bulk there.
Or it could be someone involved with creating that roster is “hedging”, knowing that a run of injuries at DE could see any of those three shift outside to help.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Aug 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
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