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Florida State Seminoles Season Preview 2010: Defensive Backs

This is the eighth and final in a multi-part preview series covering the position groups as Florida State starts the 2010 season.  Of the 66 major conference teams, FSU was only better than Louisville, Kansas, Indiana, Duke, Stanford, Kansas State, Iowa State, Illinois, and of course, Washington State.  The last ACC defenses to be this bad in league play were some of the mid-decade Duke teams.  If you want more comparisons and perspective, check out Closing The Book On The 2009 FSU Defense.  Today I'll look at the defensive backs.

Quarterbacks | Running Backs | Wide Receivers | Tight Ends | Offensive Line |Defensive Line | Linebackers | Defensive Backs

Both corners and safeties are coached by the same man and I'll address them together.  Everyone knows about Mickey Andrews' tragic family issues and that his focus was obviously not on the team.  Coach Andrews is an awesome figure in Florida State history and a great 'Nole.  Enter Mark Stoops, the decorated defensive coordinator from Arizona.  He will coach defensive backs and coordinate the defense.  Stoops comes highly recommended from multiple Jimbo Fisher contacts, most notably Bo Pelini of Nebraska and Will Muschamp of Texas.

Defensive Coordinator and Secondary Coach Mark Stoops

Stoops recently met with the media.  He's quite a bit different than Mickey Andrews.  Andrews was very southern.  Stoops is extremely midwestern.  But like Andrews in his prime, Stoops consistently has his defense performing at a very high level.  We recently profiled the defense Stoops will run (much more zone).  That is a needed change as FSU's schemes were stale and were quite vulnerable even if FSU had the most elite of talent, which it arguably did not.  The talent is quite good, though young, and Stoops is excited to again work with elite athletes like he had at Miami in the early part of the last decade.  

The most important changes will be stressing assignment football, technique, and attention to detail.  Teams exploited FSU's lack of attention to detail and lack of discipline.  It is not about making plays.  It is about executing your assignment with championship discipline and technique.  It's good to force turnovers by putting the offense into a negative leverage down, pressuring the quarterback, and forcing him into a bad throw.  It's not good to attempt to force turnovers by gambling and playing recklessly.  While FSU forced a lot of turnovers last year, the turnovers were often a result of poor process.  And that poor process was exposed on a mind-boggling number of big plays given up.  Stoops will not tell his guys to go make plays.  He will tell them to go play their assignment and let the turnovers come to them.  That change, along with the new zone schemes, will present a major adjustment for FSU's defensive backs.  FSU's defensive backs are going to have to leverage the hash, pattern read, squeeze routes, pass off receivers, etc.  Importantly, Stoops will fit this system to the players better than we saw over the past few years.  It will not be easy and the whole process will probably not show until 2011.  Before proficiency comes competency and competency is the goal for the 2010 defense.

FSU loses its best defender in cornerback Patrick Robinson (1st round draft choice of New Orleans).  Robinson played very well last season but was exposed a few times as the scheme put him in an untenable position.  Can FSU's secondary get better despite losing one of the top corners in the country?  Definitely, and part of that is because of other losses.  Florida State thankfully is rid of #22 Korey Mangum, a safety who was arguably the worst scholarship player in Noles history. The 'Noles also lose Jamie Robinson, the free safety who played somewhere between average and below average.  Losing Mangum is a huge gain for the 'Noles.  FSU was effectively playing 10-on-11 with him on the field.  

Cornerback

FSU looks to be in good shape at the corner position.  

Field Corner (wide side of the field)

It all starts with Greg Reid.  I liked the 5'8" 182 lb sophomore a lot-- as a kick and punt returner.  Reid is the best return man in the country.  His vision in the open field is incredible.  But as a corner Greg did not play well last year.  He did make some highlight interceptions, but those interceptions and interception attempts highlighted what I talked about above.  Greg didn't make his interceptions as a result of playing his assignment.  He got them by freelancing.  And as a result of that freelancing, he was burnt a ton.  He either didn't know or refused to play his assignment and hurt the defense.  Additionally, Greg didn't tackle well.  But Reid really transformed this Spring.  He became a leader in the secondary.  The coaches raved about his practice habits.  He put in work in the weight room.  He took to the new scheme.  He won defensive player of the Spring, had a good summer, and has continued to have a good Fall.  He has the starting spot locked down and everyone is really excited to see a player who could perhaps contend for all-conference honors in 2011 or 2012 (or perhaps this year).  And he'll continue to be one of if not the best punt returners in the country.  

JUCO transfer Mike Harris got in late, but he has immediately shown why FSU brought him in.  Harris has been impressive in Fall camp and coach Fisher called him the "silent assassin."  His familiarity with the scheme from his JUCO days was immediately apparent.  Harris could likely start for many ACC teams, he just happens to be behind Greg Reid.  The 6'0" 180-lb Junior helps to provide great depth.

Inside, see analysis of the other 10 DBs

Star-divide

Boundary Corner (short side of the field)

The secret is out.  Back in Spring only those who really followed the program knew about red-shirt freshman Xavier Rhodes.  The 6'1" 210 lb Miami native had insiders buzzing.  He has a great skill set to play in this new zone-heavy scheme.  But with an impressive Spring and a great summer, some will tell you that he is the best player on the entire defense.  I don't buy that yet, but that he'd even be considered for such hyperbole is impressive.  While we haven't seen much of his ball skills, Rhodes is very physical and has competitiveness.  Someone told me that if he could have one DB in a street fight, it would be Rhodes.  Rhodes is tough.  Rhodes has great physical ability, but there was some question of whether he could master the mental part of the game enough to beat out Jenije.  It was no contest, as Rhodes clearly earned the spot in the first week of Fall camp.  Fisher raves about this kid every chance he gets, even if unprompted.  Rhodes is the DB with the most NFL potential and there's a chance that he will soon be talked about even above the more heralded Greg Reid.  Look for Rhodes to light some people up this season with his great size and instincts on the Boundary.

I don't want to make it seem like all of the corners have had a great camp, but we built this site on realism.  Reid, Harris, and Rhodes have had a great camp, but there's another kid who has as well.  LaMarcus Joyner was perhaps the most heralded member of FSU's first class under coach Fisher.  He was the Gatorade defensive player of the year and the consensus top cornerback in the country.  The 5'8" 185 lb freshman has surprised everyone with his maturity and his work ethic.  He doesn't play like a freshman.  Joyner is just different.  He's incredibly quick and fast.  Strong for his size.  He's impressed everyone and seems to be everything he was hyped up to be.  He's just stuck behind a guy in Rhodes who many believe will be an early-round draft choice.  He will play this season and will also return kicks (perhaps punts too). 

The Others

Avis Commack was moved to defensive back after breaking his femur and not cutting it at receiver.  I don't know what to expect from the 6'4" Junior from Jacksonville.  

Freshman Terrance Brooks has really come in and hit the weight room hard, but I don't expect much from him this season except in mop-up duty.  He should be a good player down the road.

 

Safety

The safeties are a concern to me, but Stoops has been a miracle worker with safeties at previous stops and if he can get two guys to play at an average level this season it will be a huge coup.  Nobody knows what to expect from this group.  Whatever safety best demonstrates his grasp of the new scheme will play, regardless of play-making ability.  Under no circumstances can FSU have it's centerfielder playing a guessing game.  Stoops will ask these guys not to get burnt deep and to know their assignment on each play.  Safeties will almost always be asked to play pass first, run second.    

The most known commodity here is Nick Moody.  The 6'2" 226 lb red-shirt sophomore from Pennsylvania has de-bulked in the 4th-quarter program as FSU wants him to gain more flexibility, losing about 4 lbs of muscle.  Moody should have played over Korey Mangum last season at the "free" (Stoops labels these backwards, but just know Moody is the guy who will be in the box) safety position, and Andrews refusal to play him illustrated the problem of having lame-duck coaches.  The proper move would be to play the young kid, provided he was about as good as the older player, particularly when both have a similar amount of experience.  But the interests of a lame duck coach are adverse to the interests of the program.  There is no incentive for that outgoing coach to act in the best interest of the program and develop the younger player!  Moody is a big hitter and a solid tackler.  He could be a nice fit in the cover-3 sky:

Cover3_medium

via smartfootball.com

But Moody had some serious work to do in the football classroom this summer.  I'm told he performed poorly on the coverage tests last season.  That won't fly under Stoops.  The defense needs to be solid, and it can be solid by having lesser athletes execute their assignments.  Nick had a long way to go, but he is a nice fit at safety.  Bothered by a groin injury this Fall, he is questionable for the early part of the season.

Teamwork is very important while playing zone defense.  Zone defense where everyone simply goes to their zone is not good zone defense.  Zone defense where everyone is using their step advantage (positioning off tendencies, motion, etc), leveraging percentages to the hilt, passing off receivers, etc.  That is good zone defense.  And that can't happen until everyone first knows and perfects their individual assignment. 

Due to the tremendous depth at corner, Senior Ochuko Jenije moved to safety.  The 5'11" 205 lb red-shirt senior from Tallahassee (4* recruit) played well at times last year and received some unwarranted criticism that should have rightfully been strewn upon Mangum.  Jenijie can be a decent safety.  His skill-set was not all that well suited for Andrews' man-heavy coverage schemes.  Jenijie is smart, strong, and a decent tackler.  He started most of the games last year and had a few interceptions. Jenijie's experience has helped him quickly take to the safety position as he fills in for the injured Nick Moody.

Next up is Terrance Parks.  The 6'2" 216 lb Junior safety is very talented.  But he was lazy in practice last year.  That's not acceptable and the coaches are loathe to play someone who is willing to work hard in a game and not in practice.  There was some thought that Parks may have faked injuries in the past in order to get out of difficult drills, then acted healthy when it came time to scrimmage.  Everyone got a clean slate under the new staff and Parks seized his opportunity to start off on the right foot. 

Parks has good range and good size.  He will likely patrol the deep third of the field.  Stoops needs to be able to trust Parks if Parks is to be the deep safety.  As of now it appears that he has at least a decent understanding of his assignments, though mastery should come in 2011.  He'll have to fully earn that trust.  But if he does, look out, because he has a ton of ability.  He is the clear cut starter opposite of Moody.

I am impressed with Redshirt Freshman Gerald Demps.  The 5'11" 206 lb Demps was Greg Reid's secondary mate for Lowndes Co. HS (Valdosta, GA).  He is unquestionably the lesser known of the two.  Demps has a fair amount of ability and has really embraced the new strength and conditioning program, bulking up to 206 lbs.  Demps plays smart on his high school film.  I think he needs a dose of confidence, as he really got down on himself last year, but his work in the off-season program is encouraging.  It would not surprise me if he starts.

Jajuan Harley is a bit of an enigma.  He's easily the most athletic safety and checks in at 6'2" 213 lbs.  The former 4* recruit played mostly on special teams last season, and I'm eager to see what he can do as a sophomore.  But there are concerns here.  Harley had a concussion last season and sometimes those injuries are funny.  He never really came back right from the concussion, and on top of that he lost some weight with what I seem to remember being a viral infection.  He also had a head injury in high school.  Every FSU fan hopes that Harley can get right in the head.  Because if he can get right, his athleticism is head and shoulders above all the other DBs.  I still think he's a bit overrated, though, more of the "great athlete not great football player" mold, at least from his high school film.  But he did have an improved Fall camp and does figure into the safety rotation.

Justin Bright was recruited to lure the 2010 Byrnes high school kids to Florida State (which did not happen).  He's not very athletic   He's bulked up to 6'0" 185 from 180 lbs, which is smaller than all of FSU's 2-deep at corner.  If FSU is bringing in some serious stud recruits at safety this year and Bright could (should) be part of the attrition crunch after this season or next unless he makes huge strides.

I don't think much of Redshirt Sophomore Ed Imeokparia .  It's unlikely he would have been recruited by the new staff had they had the chance.  Imeokparia is 6'0" 196 lbs and wasn't profiled in the Spring guide, nor listed in the Secondary section.  He tore his ACL prior to the 2008 season and redshirted while recovering.  He was arrested for some sort of cell-phone theft charge.  I'd bet money that he's not on the 2011 roster. 

True freshman Chad Abram, like Brooks, has come in and been impressive in the weight room.  He'll contribute on Special teams before getting truly in the mix at safety come next Spring.

Outlook

The ACC is absolutely loaded at defensive back.  FSU's corners stack up well against the league.  I would only take the corners from Miami, North Carolina (provided they aren't kicked off the team), Virginia, and perhaps Clemson over this group.  FSU could have the top corner group in the league next season, however, as these young talents have a second year in the scheme and continue to progress.  

Safety is a different story.  I am really hoping that FSU's safeties can be average this season.  It is my guess that FSU will trade some play-making chances for safety, keeping the deep guy deeper in order to avoid the big play.  I am not particularly confident in this group and would trade them for every other ACC safety tandem with the exception of NC State, Wake, Duke, Virginia, and Georgia Tech.  This group is very much wait and see.

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If Parks stays healthy he could be one of the best DBs on this team this year...

Big if, but I’m hoping. The talent is there, I hope the knees are…

Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...

by NaGaNole on Sep 1, 2010 8:45 PM EDT reply actions  

And the head

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about LJ at safety?

I know he’s only 5’8" but that boy can hit hard and he loves it more importantly. Just look at his film! And 5’8" safety’s do exist. How about Pro Bowler Bob Sanders of the Colts?! LJ is smaller right now obviosuly but he has those same instincts and agression

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Sep 1, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too small of frame

And he’s just learning corner. No way will he be learning 2 positions as a true freshman.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

but he already is

Coach Fisher has a package with him in at RB and Slot WR. Thats learning 3 positions..He’ll be ok. Deion 2.0

by genron187 on Sep 1, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he's a corner not a safety right?

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct..a true corner.

He has all of the good attributes you want a CB to have..you’ll waist it at S

by genron187 on Sep 1, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd rather LJ play snaps on offense than Reid

Reid needs to focus on CB and returns. It’s better to have a kid moonlight at other positions and packages while they’re still freshmen. Like Ginn at OSU and Branden Smith last year for UGA. Once they’re sophmores you want them to start producing at the position you recruited them for IMO

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 1, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jenije is larger than I thought he was...

…but is he large enough to back up Moody and play up near the box? Though I guess if you’re playing the run second, it is less of a problem.

And for the record, I still argue Kyler Hall was worse than Mangum haha.

Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.

by mmmCheese on Sep 1, 2010 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Bud said that with Mangum on the field it was 10 on 11, but

I would argue that Yarborough made it 9 on 11. The scheme put others out of position and made it about 5 or 6 in the play.

Bring back Korey Mangum — a true Nole!

by SoCalNole on Sep 1, 2010 11:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

you are right

But let’s give these kids a break now. They were at least trying hard, granted way too hard

by Ponder This on Sep 2, 2010 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

internet minus undeserved personal attacks?

not possible.

"…You can't get enough Lonnie Pryors on your football team." -Eddie Gran

by harper.rb on Sep 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

It was obvious that Mangum hated it when he messed up, you could tell he was upset, and he didn’t do it on purpose. The coaches let him down which is a shame because playing hard for a team you love should be a joy.

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Sep 2, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is in NO WAY an attack on Mangum.

Very few Noles have ever been forced into such a horrible position. My heart goes out to the guy. The above comments are meant only to illustrate the incompetence of the coaching staff.

Bring back Korey Mangum — a true Nole!

by SoCalNole on Sep 2, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people have always believed in Terrence Brooks

I knew he would explode in the weight room. A poster told said that Dunnelon’s weight room was a “joke”.And despite that Brooks was still impressive physically. The report on the safety position is why I don’t worry about Tyler Hunter going anywhere. Man, are we thin there!

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 1, 2010 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Bud

I can’t help but think you are glad to be done with position previews. This series has been great but I bet you are looking forward to doing some actual game analysis. They have been very insightful. They will be great to go back and look at as the season progresses to see how a player is doing compared to his preseason eval.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 1, 2010 9:08 PM EDT reply actions  

preesh

thanks as always for all the position reviews, im always more stalker than talker in this beast (usually not home till after 2a.m from work) but i love the work all of u guys put in. Can’t wait till saturday.

\m/(-_-)\m/

by metalheadnole on Sep 1, 2010 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Top 25 defense by the end of the year.

Your not giving Stoops and Hudson near enough credit. Stoops just had a top 25 defense in the country at Arizona and was #1 in the Pac-10. Stoops had hardly any talent to work with and was still putting guys in the NFL. Hudson had even less talent at ECU and if you don’t recall he made Mallott look average and he is only coaching our backers. Listen to Ira on the Jeff Cameron show and he comments about Jimbo telling Ira that basically the defensive turnaround should be immediate.

by alexnole on Sep 1, 2010 9:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Ira got a little too excited.

What was his pick, 10-2? I’ll be happy to be wrong, but that seems a bit bullish.

"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes

"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher

by Drew J Jones on Sep 1, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Immediate

turn around doesn’t mean top 25 to me. Immediate turnaround means a defense that is at least competent. The defense was broken. Completely and utterly broken last year. I think it will take longer than a year to fix that level of broke. Arizona may have had a great defense, but how long did those guys have to learn the system? How many position coaches did they have the year before that told them to “go out and make a play.” It is hard to tell how large an impact the new coaches will have in the first year, but it is easy to go back and look at how bad it was last year. I guess I would take into consideration the tangible a bit more than the intangible when predicting next years D.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 1, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Competent means

don’t give up 49 to Ga Tech. Give up 35.

Don’t give up 42 to NC State at home. Give up 28 (maybe 31 on the road).

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Competent-

Force a friggan punt against Ga Tech for crying out loud. ONE friggan punt would be an improvement from last year! BROKEN!

Ehh…is it Saturday yet?

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lightning

I was at that game and that was the only thing that stopped their option offense!

by imissrix on Sep 1, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Went out to the tailgate to get more to drink during the delay

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

HAHA.

I didn’t think about that. The only thing that could stop GT’s offense that game was God. Ouch. I scored some awesome tickets to that game. 2nd row 40 yd line right behind the defensive staff. Watching Chuck try and coach up the defense…ech, made me want to puke in his general direction.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 1, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

but i think it would be fair

To expect a little “bending” as our defense gets chipped at. We may need to be more patient now that we don’t play to stop the run at all costs.

by Ponder This on Sep 2, 2010 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

(And yet still fail to stop the run)

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Sep 2, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is surprising his defense ranks as high as you say

They had some games where they gave up lots of points. Not sure about yards though.

by nolestuff on Sep 1, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta look at pace

Some of those games had 80+ plays run! Like a fast break opponent in hoops.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

The general consensus around here, which is one of the many great things about this place, is to not get too high, not get too low.

In addition to being realistic, staying moderate allows for avoidance of total disappointment when things don’t turn out like you are saying (a top-25 D combined with our O puts us in the Orange Bowl, MINIMUM, by the way – after finishing 1 game over .500 in 3 of the last 4 seasons and the 1 season we finished 9 – 4 was padded by 2 games to start the season against D-2 or whatever it is called now teams), but more importantly allows for an even higher level of satisfaction if things turn out better than the consensus around here thinks.

The TN Staff here does not challenge this stance or some of the other crazy (not calling this crazy, referring to stuff like we’ll beat Miami by 2 TD’s, guaranteed to win 10 regular season games, etc.) stances that posters make to be negative toward’s FSU (they get accused of that all the time), they do so because that is what they truly believe, and tempering crazy hopes helps temper the polar opposite reaction when those hopes are not met.

No right-wingers, no left-wingers, only moderates.

by HROB3 on Sep 2, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be disappointed if the defense doesn't break 40

I wouldn’t be totally surprised if it broke 30. Mickey was around there not long ago. The players weren’t under Vic Viloria but they couldn’t have hid from every weight room work out they are bound to have developed some.

I agree with alexnole, there is more potential here for a good year than some think. Of course I say this every year and every year I have failed but it is going to be different this time I have a hunch. I do believe Stoops can take this talent level and make a better than average defense faster than we think. Anyway we shall soon find out.

The thought of injuries at tackle is the only thing that holds my enthusiasm in check.

Bud I am still willing to be you ten bucks Miami will not beat FSU.

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by DocHoliday2 on Sep 1, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Before we lost Moses and Carr? Agreed

Now? Just be top 50 for me.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Top 60 would do it for me

Especially considering the acclimation process. Perhaps the abomination that took the field last year is too fresh in my mind

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 1, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

negative

Im sorry to say but here is the bottom line.

Last year vs this year
Last year
under weight players on the front 7
Losing Mangum is a huge gain for the ’Noles. FSU was effectively playing 10-on-11 with him on the field. (best line ever on TN
The Coaches stopped coaching football in 2000 and told everyone to just out play the other team

This year
size matters
The YOUNG DEF LINE is better than Budd Thacker, Justin Mincey, and Kendrick Stewart, and Craig Yarborough hands down
And the #1 reason why this years Def will be better FSU has coaches that not only can out recruit the coaches from the last 10 year but understand football has changed and have a good idea where its going and what to do.
(Not a smash on MA because he is just as importune to what mad FSU what it is as BB is)

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 2, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those are all good points

Des, but don’t you agree that going from 108 to say 45 is a TON better on defense?

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 2, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im saying that going from 108 to 60 is a ton better

but I dont think that mattes kinda. What would the new Def we have do with last years SoS compared to last years Def to this years SoS.. The Def is going to be a ton better one way or the other and thats my point. Is it going to be great as much as I wish and hope and convince myself it will be no it wont. Next year I will think the same thing. Bud is right about 2011 and 2012 but thats next year not this year. Anyhow we are still going to see blown coverages and missed assignments but I dont care how bad this year is I still think that we took a huge step forward. we can go 1-11 and I still think we are going the right direction with just the change of the coaching staff.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 2, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

1. Lack of depth and experience at key spots
2. Lack of time in the new system.
3. Lots and lots of teams with better defenses than FSU will have.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with 1 and 2

But, a serious question, what does another team’s defense have to do with the production of our defense?

If we’re looking at rankings, then the ‘best’ defense could be a competent one that went against the worst offenses.

So, if we’re facing some average offenses, then our defense can statistically look top 30-ish. The only offensive threats I see are OU, UF, and MIA (any more?)

Unless we’re looking at the (relative) quality of a defense rather than statistical rankings. If that’s the case, then forget what I just said…

by nbj08 on Sep 2, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you're one of the best 25

You can’t have 25 better defenses than you.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like we're definitely not better than these 12

Alabama
Ohio State
Iowa
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Clemson
Florida
Texas
Boise State
TCU
Penn State
Miami

And probably not better than any of these

LSU
South Carolina
Boston College
USC
Mississippi
West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Wisconsin
Oregon
Georgia
Texas Tech
Auburn

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we are getting too caught up in the rank of the defense.

Like Bud is saying, there are some stacked Defenses out there this year. We can still be greatly improved and have a more than competent defense but just not crack the top 25 or 40 because of the other great Defenses out there.

by TimScribble on Sep 2, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ole Miss is gonna be good on D this year?

I thought they lost a bunch?

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Sep 2, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

They still have guys like Jerrell Powe and Lockett on the d-line and return their top two tacklers

They lost Hardy but those other guys probably outproduced him anyway. Powe seems like he wants to play now that there’s NFL $ on the table

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never thought I'd see the day

Texas Tech Defense > Florida State Defense

sigh

by moneyNOLE24 on Sep 2, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

well last year it was

North Texas>FSU

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 2, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

It has been for two years

and now they have Tubberville and should be pretty good again.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

however Ponder this

The best Defence is a good Offence. best offence is a good Def. Last year the def couldnt stop a fly but the offence keep us in games. This year no they will not be the best thing known to mankind but they will be better. Also the Offence will be better. Another thing to look at was Stamina. Crazy I know but the Def played better when they were not on the field for 10+ play drives. Im not saying thats not going to happen but if they can get teams to punt a few more times this year than last that will shoot them up more. Also with the new S&C coach they might be in better shap to last longer for these drives. Just an Idea.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 2, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because bad

coaching usually takes more than one year to fix. Kids get in a system, they spend time learning that system a little while. The more guys you have in a system with quality depth the better your D. FSU has yet to play a one single game snap with the new stuff.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 1, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree Des

It will be worlds better. I just don’t see the top 25 that some might expect or are hoping for. Don’t get me wrong, if it happens, I will be EXTREMELY happy.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

no it wont happen when we have UF and OU

but If we play GT I would bet a paycheck that they punt at least once.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 2, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

and i would

be extremely happy with that. haha.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have an average defensive line and average safeties

And the inexperience and lack of depth at DT has a lot of people praying we don’t suffer any further injuries there

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 1, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

See thats my point right there

Last season we didnt have an average Def. They sucked. I begged to just have an avg. def. If we had an avg. Def. last season we could have won 2 or 3 more games. This year we have a chance to put ourselfs in a good spot to win the ACC and OB. get a good rank at the end of the season and go into next season top notch and looking at a NC. Its all there if someone would have this SoS that just kills.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Think about this

If we had a defense that force a few turnover last year what kind of numbers would Ponder have put up with the ball in his hands more? This may happen this year. Then you have the advantage of Reid and Joyner running back punts.

Miami may be better sure, but FSU has room for much more improvement than they do by virtue of actually having a defense for a change.

Coaching usually takes long but like they say defense is set up for the quickest turn around.

They will have some time in this system before Miami or Florida however. UF has an new defensive DC. This isn’t going to effect them? Only FSU?

Lots of teams with better defenses than FSU, we think, but not many with a better offense!

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by DocHoliday2 on Sep 1, 2010 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Can't play the what if game

I wanted to do that, but I remember in the BC game, after the offense had started to get some momentum, FSU kicked the ball off, BC muffed it, the FSU offense got it back, then did nothing with it. I have also seen teams where you think, if the offense had just been a little better, or if the defense had been a little better, then the next year, that side of the ball does get better then the other side regresses.

by nolestuff on Sep 1, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will have to see those safeties perform in the Stoops system before I call them average

Every safety looks average when he is in a scheme ending up chasing a guy who is going for an 80 yard bomb. Fisher doesn’t seem to be complaining about the defense other too much running up the middle like you say.

Don't miss the new best selling books by the Bowden clan

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Burned In Effigy By Classless WVU Fans...By Ann Bowden
Just Pay The Man.....By Terry Bowden
They Dared To Fire Our Arses....By Burning Ann
Purple Haze, Prozac, Geritol, Senility, Back Stabbing And Losing…By Ann Bowden

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

We have a two first time starters at S

One of which (Parks) didn’t do anything his first two years at FSU and the another (Jenije) who was a mediocre corner (at best) last year. Lets just say my expectations are tempered for the time being

by westcoastnolefan on Sep 1, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ANSWER ME THIS BUD.

Can we compare an experienced Arizona defense with way less talent and an unexperienced FSU defense with alot more talent and say they could offset each other.

by alexnole on Sep 1, 2010 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Gimme 2009 zona over 2010 FSU on defense

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 1, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jenije and Parks aren't going to be All Americans

But Jenije is better than many give him credit for here and Stoops seems to agree. He will hit people so safety might agree with him. Parks, the knees have held him up.

Don't miss the new best selling books by the Bowden clan

Just One Star Player And One Big Play Away Forever…By Bobby Bowden
Burned In Effigy By Classless WVU Fans...By Ann Bowden
Just Pay The Man.....By Terry Bowden
They Dared To Fire Our Arses....By Burning Ann
Purple Haze, Prozac, Geritol, Senility, Back Stabbing And Losing…By Ann Bowden

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 1, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I think our defense will be real good.

We have the talent with Bradham, J-Mac, Greg Reid and Marcus White all being 5 stars. There is usually a noticeable differerence between a 4 star and a 5 star. Defense is certainly a lot easier to pick up than the offense. Very glad to start our season with Samford and not Miami. I am also hoping to see the backups in this game early.

by Jbeau on Sep 1, 2010 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Good point about starting with Samford

This defense will get better as we go – its all about learning the system. Rolando Mclain rings a bell – knew Saban’s system like the back of his hand!

by DesiNole on Sep 1, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

starting with Samford

followed by Oklahoma one week later. They really need to be “competent” by September 11th.

"Lock up your daughter, lock up your wife, lock up your back door, and run for your life" - Bon Scott

by SeminoleMike on Sep 2, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bud, what can i say........

Other than,damn, you’ve got a bright future.

We may not be elite on the field yet,but this site is All-World IMHO.

2011 has me excited yet concerned whether one of our super-recruits will be ready to fill Bradhams shoes. I’m guessing Christian Jones but speculation is almost pointless when you have so much young talent.

......and let the paramedics sort 'em out!

by Scalpemall on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 AM EDT reply actions  

I think the offense can help (to an extent)

Use the depth at running back (and our talented o-line) to counter the lack of depth on the defensive side of the ball. Control the ball, keep the defense off the field. Wear down some of those opposing defenses so Ponder can light them up in the 4th quarter.

by NJNole on Sep 2, 2010 7:06 AM EDT reply actions  

freshman linebackers can run like scalded dogs

and this factor will improve coverage in nickle

by ben rust on Sep 2, 2010 7:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Offense help the defense

Since our strength should be the Offense, can they put together long drives that eat up the clock? There has been a lot of discussion about long drives make mistakes, great offenses strike when they can. IMO, Jimbo likes the long strike, therefore, IMO the great offense will put more pressure on the defense. When you score quickly the defense is right back on the field.

by rspknole1 on Sep 2, 2010 8:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Ochuko Jenije

At first, I didn’t understand why they moved him to safety. IMO it is because the Free Safety is almost always the final guy in the Zone defense. With the pressure type system that the Zone is creating you need someone with good cover skills deep. That brings Jenije as being the perfect fit for this system, someone that has been trained to be a corner and moved to Free safety.

by rspknole1 on Sep 2, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks Bud!

Your hard work is appreciated! I have enjoyed your previews. Now let’s play some ball!

by The Highway's Free on Sep 2, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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