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Attrition and FSU football, what might have been in 2010?

First, would just like to say that I'm a big fan of the site.  I wasn't able to watch most of this college football season because of work, but being able to catch up with TN articles and discussion kept me informed and made missing FSU games a little more tolerable.  

Now, to the point.  It is the off-season and like many FSU football fans who have acquired a somewhat fatalist attitude after a decade of disasters, the hope for the upcoming season also comes with the inevitable worry of a "who is gonna transfer/get kicked off the team/quit?"  Is it a player we need, and at a position lacking depth?  Murphy's Law seems to ensure that it always is...

It was a chance article I came across about the dismissal of Chris Weinke's heir apparent, Jerod Jones, that got me thinking about attrition in FSU football.  Every school goes through it's fair share of "what could have been" with a star player that didn't work out and left school.  But as an FSU fan, and with no real evidence at all for saying this, it always seems like FSU has had it so much worse than any other team the past decade.  It's like a perfect storm of who the program can't afford to lose.  The list of QB's is particularly disturbing:

Jerod "Hot Dog" Jones dismissal in 2001

Joe Mauer playing baseball in 2001

Adrian McPherson's paper cha$e

Fabian Walker not, uh, working out

Wyatt Sexton's "Lyme Disease."  

And I'm gonna throw Xavier Lee on here too. I don't think there was anyone associated with the football program who didn't think Lee was FSU's QB of the future when he was recruited.  Weatherford was a complete afterthought.

Who knows how some of these guys would have panned out had they stuck around (or in Lee's case, end up as a HUGE disappointment), but we do know that the QB succession plan was thrown in to upheaval.  Guys like Rix and Weatherford ended up playing well ahead of schedule.  The results on the field showed.  What if Rix and Weatherford (or even Lee) had gotten a few years to develop before starting?  Maybe we win a few more games, who knows, but major attrition at the QB position is tough to overcome.  Coupled with Jeff Bowden and it gets real tough.  We got shut out at home by Wake Forest in 2006.  That pretty much sums it up.

Thankfully, Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel have stabilized the QB position for FSU the past few years. Nevertheless, attrition still occurs, and prior to the 2010 football season FSU had a string of personnel losses that left me wondering what if they played?  These are three guys who didn't play that I think could have made an impact this past season in helping the team.  

LB Nigel Carr broke some laws, dismissed from team

WR Jarmon Fortson broke team rules, dismissed from team

DT Moses McCray tore his ACL

Before we go any further, I'm going to make it clear that I know there is no way Coach Fisher could keep Carr or Fortson on the team.  They needed to go elsewhere, but I do think it's interesting to wonder what might have been had they stayed out of trouble and been on the team this past season.  Jarmon Fortson would have started.  He was infuriatingly inconsistent, but that seems to sum up the entire receiving corps this season.  Nigel Carr also was set to be a starter before he was kicked off the team.  Is he better than Mister Alexander who seems to have done an admirable job? I don't know, but he was a talent and the bottom line is it hurts to lose talent for stupid reasons.

Then there's Moses McCray.  I absolutely think FSU could have used him this season.  It's no secret how thin our D-line depth was and Moses is a big dude that I think could have contributed.  It's too bad he hasn't been able to stay healthy.  At the very least, if Moses McCray is able to play, does Darius Cummings end up burning his redshirt to play against Maryland?  

Do these three guys help us win a game or two more in 2010?  I don't know, but I think it's interesting to think about.

There are other players out there as well who potentially could have made an impact this season.  For the sake of wondering what might have been;

What if Justin Mincey redshirted last year as planned to recover from his knee injury and was available for the 2010 season?  

What if D'Vontrey Richardson didn't play baseball and followed through with his position switch to safety?  He would have been a senior for 2010, and despite moving to defense, the guy had serious football talent.   

The list of misses and "what might have beens" can go on and on.  Whatever the impact of some of these guys might have been, I'm just left wondering if there were TD catches, sacks, and big defensive stops that never made it on the field in 2010?

Lastly, I just want to finish with a thought.  A little off topic, but it kind of figures in to attrition.  It's my recruiting pet peeve.  I hate recruiting two QB's the same year.  If we take Brissett and Coker this year, one of them won't stick around.

I understand there may be depth issues and all that jazz, but we're potentially looking at 5 scholarship QB's.  I've seen this before at FSU and other programs, it doesn't bode well.  Weatherford and Xavier Lee came in the same recruiting class.  So did Ponder and D'Vontrey Richardson.  D'Vontrey left to play baseball and from an outsiders perspective, seemed to handle being Ponder's backup okay, but he was also willing to switch positions.  Is Brissett and Coker gonna work?  Big programs with highly recruited QB's in the same recruiting class spells transfer in my mind.  

That being said, thanks for reading.  I miss college football...

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IIRC Scout had D'Vo as a 5* Safety prospect

At least at one point during the evaluation he was ranked that highly. Yes, Scout has too many 5*s, but it still means he was a high level recruit at the position.

by MassNole on Jan 17, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Lastly, I just want to finish with a thought. A little off topic, but it kind of figures in to attrition. It’s my recruiting pet peeve. I hate recruiting two QB’s the same year. If we take Brissett and Coker this year, one of them won’t stick around.

I understand there may be depth issues and all that jazz, but we’re potentially looking at 5 scholarship QB’s. I’ve seen this before at FSU and other programs, it doesn’t bode well. Weatherford and Xavier Lee came in the same recruiting class. So did Ponder and D’Vontrey Richardson. D’Vontrey left to play baseball and from an outsiders perspective, seemed to handle being Ponder’s backup okay, but he was also willing to switch positions. Is Brissett and Coker gonna work? Big programs with highly recruited QB’s in the same recruiting class spells transfer in my mind.

FSU will not carry five scholarship QBs. The upperclassman 3rd-stringer will transfer somewhere else. There’s a chance that FSU could carry 5 in 2012, but that’s a small chance and would only be for one year. It’s how major CFB works. If you aren’t going to be a contributor as an upperclassmen then the gig is up and you go play D1-AA ball

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

QB is the most important position on the field and you should sign the heck out of the position and figure it out on the practice field.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent post, by the way.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll add Aubrey Phillips (what if he didn’t have the heart issues)

What if Willie Downs qualified or Demar Dorsey didn’t flip to Michigan or Matt Elam flip back to UF?

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

Willie Downs hurts the most

Would have been the first true playmaker at safety we’ve had in a while. Come on down Karlos Williams and Keelin Smith…

by moneyNOLE24 on Jan 17, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Given that DD did pretty much nothing in '10, I'll go with that one.

He probably ends the season as the unquestioned starter. Now he’s a year removed from being humbled and possibly attempting to walk on and compete with talented safeties one year younger than him.

SMH.

by FSUActuary on Jan 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It was a tough decade, full of a lot of ifs and a lot of Ls

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 17, 2011 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

McPherson pissed me off

Talk about wasted potential…

I know kids do dumb stuff (I certainly did), but damn!

Florida State 45 Miami 17
Florida State 31 Florida 7
State Champions
ACC Atlantic Division Champions

by SeminoleMike on Jan 17, 2011 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

Fabian Walker

was part of the 2000 class that came in with Rix. I really thought he carry the torch, but he pissed me off.

by I275Nole on Jan 20, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

technically correct

but he was initially part of the 1999 class – just didn’t qualify. Don’t remember if he went to prep school for the fall semester or not, but he was a Jan. 2000 enrollee.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 21, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Losing Downs was huge

CJ Mizzell is another one I wonder about, but I’m not sure the liability would have been worth it.
I understand taking as many good QB’s as you can. The Xavier Lee and Drew Weatherford situation was a nightmare though, really seemed to overshadow everything else for a couple of years. And what if Clint Trickett is the odd man out ? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a staff member’s son transferring. That could be an interesting conversation between Coach Trickett and Coach Fisher

by Radio on Jan 17, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

And what if Clint Trickett is the odd man out

This bothers me too. If Clint gets the nod over Secord and comes in as a backup, what if he doesn’t perform well? I wonder if some people will complain about forcing a potentially better Secord out due to favoritism much the same way that we condemned Bowden for hiring Jeff. Of course, hopefully none of this happens

by MWM Nole on Jan 17, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

This bothers me too. If Clint gets the nod over Secord and comes in as a backup, what if he doesn’t perform well? I wonder if some people will complain about forcing a potentially better Secord out due to favoritism much the same way that we condemned Bowden for hiring Jeff. Of course, hopefully none of this happens

Secord is already 3rd-string. He is already beat out by Trickett, so there is no if there.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea I wasn't clear, thanks for pointing that out

Even though a lot of fans don’t know the current pecking order, I probably still shouldn’t have used “if” – although I guess it’s technically possible that Trickett could get hurt or Secord could look great in spring practice and we could end up with Secord as #2 instead, right? Obviously, this is very unlikely (and even an injury may not be enough to change things), but Secord is at least around until the spring game, correct?

by MWM Nole on Jan 17, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes he will be here for Spring, imo

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Our season is likely over

if either Clint or Secord are starting, anyway, so why bother discussing this?

by Meehl on Jan 17, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup, that's exactly what I said.

Of course back then the season was considered over if we were out of the NC picture. Richt called a fabulous game against UF to compensate for Outzen and we got quite a bit of help from other games the last week of the season to get us in the big game. Rooster was atrocious in the title game and we still kept it close.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Marcus Outzen

 The Red Rooster won the game against the gaturds. The last game of the season, he never was a starter for FSU. And i could be wrong, but i thought it was when Busby got hurt.

by Danotheanimal on Jan 18, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

it was when weinke went down with a neck injury

"I saw coverage to the left, coverage to the right, and coverage up the middle and I said to myself, This is gunna be fun!" Peter Warrick on Punt Return

by kmp9494 on Jan 18, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks kmp

Getting a little old. Love the old school Noles!

by Danotheanimal on Jan 18, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, don't think Busby ever had injury problems

I do remember the crowd at Doak screaming for Kendra when Busby only put 56 points on Southern Miss. rolls eyes

by tuckwell on Jan 21, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think so. Trickett and the talent on the offensive side is better then you realize.

We have a lot more playmakers on offense then we have had in the past. Trickett is alot better then most folks realize. His understanding of the playbook is way ahead of schedule. The toughest thing about guys playing early is the lack of understanding of the playbook.

FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon

by CJNole on Jan 19, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Then he is the odd man out. He’s already beat out Secord so he has at least another year here, where Secord does not. If Trickett is 3rd string in 2013 I think he will leave the team and remain at FSU OR will transfer.

The Xavier Lee and Drew Weatherford situation was a nightmare though, really seemed to overshadow everything else for a couple of years.

That was due to coaching and no leadership.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 17, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

how good trickett really is?

i know fisher wouldnt offer him if he didnt he was good enough to play for us, but is he capable of starting for us some day?

"We’re going to shoot for perfection every day, knowing full well we’ll never achieve it. But in the meantime we’ll find excellence" James "Jimbo" Fisher FSU Head Coach

by ColombianNole on Jan 18, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Fisher really wanted to offer him due to the situation

Fisher said, that they kept on bringing guys in that summer that were rated higher then Trickett but when the throwing started Trickett was better.

I would like to point out, Fisher knows QBs. Every QB, he’s coached since his time at LSU has made an NFL roster with the exception of Weatherford. If you go back to Auburn, every guy but four. Out of that four one played pro baseball and another one is the QB coach at GT.

FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon

by CJNole on Jan 19, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

What about Secord?

was there ever any thought that he was an eventual starter or was he brought in as a placeholder becauese D’Vontrey left? Doesn’t seem like there’s any optimism about him taking over down the road

by Radio on Jan 19, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I was talking about starters

Think about it. If you can start for Fisher, you’ll end up on a NFL roster. I don’t penalize him for Weatherford. Ponder didn’t look like a NFL QB when he got here. A lot of us saw the film on Ponder as a high school recruit (in shorts) on Warchant. It wasn’t pretty.

FSU football is the new case study for the outliers phenomon

by CJNole on Jan 19, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, but ponder was the guy Fisher thought was legit when he first got here

so he saw something that many people did not

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 19, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Secord was being recruited by Jimbo Fisher and Bobby Petrino.

I shouldn’t have to say anymore. The guy has some talent if he was being looked at by 2 of the best quarterback coaches in the nation. FSU just brought in better talent and will continue to do so.

by fsucj2431 on Jan 23, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

lets hope he nd up like sam bradford =D

or at least McCoy, if im not wrong they were both three star kids…

while i write this i can see one of buds articles trough my mind saying how lazy recuits analist are and ow they only focus on stats…

"We’re going to shoot for perfection every day, knowing full well we’ll never achieve it. But in the meantime we’ll find excellence" James "Jimbo" Fisher FSU Head Coach

by ColombianNole on Jan 21, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Wyatt Sexton

Sexton “left” the program after his bout with “lyme disease” his father was on the staff at the time.

Yes! Be Afraid because HERE WE GO AGAIN! Go NOLES!!

by HereWeGoAgain! on Jan 17, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

lyme disease......haha

neurological manifestations from lyme dz take quite some time. not gonna get bit by a tick in tennessee, then a wk later scream you’re the son of God b/c of lyme disease. wyatt had a bad drug problem.

by 81FSUnole on Jan 18, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know bout his drug problem, but can't lyme disease make you crazy?

I knocked him when that happen and called him a druggie, but then was corrected about the effects of lyme disease……again I don’t know how he was on campus, so he could of been a big partier

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 18, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I can confirm what 81 said

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Would he have actually been any good

Would he have competed for a starting job and what was he rated. Or was he just a roster fill and coaches son?

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 22, 2011 3:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Naples,

yes, lyme dz can make you “crazy”, but it takes quite some time. if wyatt has/had lyme dz, his psychotic episode years back was not caused from that. one of the things that pissed me off about him was seeing him @ a UF game wearing a UF sweater. Seemed like a nice enough guy, but c’mon……i dont care how cold it is, you do NOT wear your rivals’ colors. lol!

by 81FSUnole on Jan 18, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot bout the sweater, yea that pissed me off too

thanks didn’t know it took a long time to make you crazy, maybe being named wyatt had a lot to do with it

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 18, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe he had been at the Bonnaroo Music Festival

And was picked up just after returning.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 19, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

yup. just got back from bonnaroo. i hear they have "ticks" that feed you a steady diet of ACID/LSD there. YEE HAW.

lyme dz is easily treated w/ an antibiotic. wyatt did NOT have lyme dz. that was nothing but a way for the school, the hospital, and a young man w/ a problem to save face. PR 101. Imagine the public backlash if the media knew we had a QB on the roster w/ a significant drug problem.

by 81FSUnole on Jan 19, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Im guessing it....

was a brown “tick” that he applied directly to his tongue. Im guessing that tick is also causing flashbacks to this day.

by Dcubbienole on Jan 20, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Either way

it’s a damn shame. Kid had potential, and Weatherford/Lee wouldn’t have been thrown into the fire right away.

by tuckwell on Jan 21, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Lee was a 5 star I think

I have no idea what Sexton had for potential but I know before Lee went thug he was supposed to be the future for a bit

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 22, 2011 3:42 AM EST up reply actions  

yeeeeah

but a 5* high school senior is at best a 2* Div 1-FBS quarterback, with very few exceptions. Given a year (at least) to learn the system without learning bad habits and losing their minds in game-time situations, Lee and/or Weatherford might very well have lived up to their billings.

by tuckwell on Jan 22, 2011 4:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Have a hard time believing that D'vo would have been an improvement at Safety

played against the kid in multiple Intramurals in Softball and he didn’t have the body to safety, he was definitely quick, one time he hit a soft single into the outfield, and ran it out to a triple with ease but lack the size of moody and parks…but just my opinion.

Get money fudge Biatches

by phi*tau-nole on Jan 17, 2011 6:02 PM EST reply actions  

"Soft Single"

A future pro baseball player hit a soft single in intramural softball. Wow… good luck in pro ball D’vo!

by imissrix on Jan 18, 2011 5:55 AM EST up reply actions  

BUD IS ON A WARPATH TODAY

First i need to apologize for some of the comment’s i made last night. Sorry to all. Think we can put Dan Kendra in this topic. A very highly recruited QB from Pennsylvania. Leg press was 1300lbs, 40 was in the area of 4.43. A QB that can do that is special. Got injured, and the rest is history

by Danotheanimal on Jan 17, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

You can't really put him in the convo b/c we had a lot of success when he was at FSU

and he wasn’t the best qb we had. He wasn’t that good at all, just was an incredible freak of an athlete with some impressive weight room abilities. Someone you can put in there is Greg Jones, who knows what he would of done without the 3 or 4 major knee surgeries

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 17, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

and without Jeffy

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 17, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember when we were recruiting Kendra.

How many times have you seen somebody land a QB commit that Penn State wanted as a linebacker? Imagine Bradham playing QB…that’s a pretty good comparison of what DK was like.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 17, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

if you are gonna talk about Greg Jones,

go ahead and throw leon and lorenzo in there. I mean, we had 2 NFL caliber backs on the same team for what, 3 years, and we were 100+ in the nation in rushing?? COME ON, MAN!!

by DoubleNickel on Jan 18, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

i agree, that whole rb tandom was sick, and include nick maddux

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 18, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

In his defense, I think that's what they reported coming out of high school

and I think FSU called him a 4.5 40 after he got here. IIRC.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 17, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

wasn't kendra the guy who tried to make his own home "steroid" and it literally

blew up in his face

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 17, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, IDK. wouldn't surprise me though.

I remember seeing him around town. There were those in denial about his PED use…sure, there are lots of bald 18 year olds with bulging foreheads that break weight lifting records. Uh huh.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 17, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I Rememeber

when the dude broke the squat record he busted all the blood vessels in his eyes, and he was walking around campus with sunglasses on.

He ate emu like it was tuna. I had never heard of emu before that.

by LincolnHighNole on Jan 18, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Saw the guy a few times

around town when he was on the team. First, he looked ‘roided out like crazy. He was enormous. Also… wasn’t he driving a Porsche? I could’ve sworn. It was hilarious.

"Yes, we won a national championship." — Fisher on if he had ever had a top ranked class before.

by GregJones on Jan 19, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

It really makes me laugh hearing some of these names

I graduated in 2001 so hearing names like Kendra cracks me up. As great as we were when I was lucky enough to be their for some of the golden years their are definitely some players that came along over that time that still make me laugh hearing their names

by caine115 on Jan 18, 2011 3:29 AM EST reply actions  

I hate that

I wasn’t really a huge FSU fan in the 90’s (I know I’m a moron). But Thad Busby was the quarterback at my high school. I guess he wasn’t any good?

by NolenRyan on Jan 18, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

He was good

He just hit his ceiling early. You and I share an alma mater in Pace, and I watched him play in high school. Running a power I formation, running-game centric offense, he still threw all over people. Great size, good arm strength, and very intelligent. Gatorade Florida Football Player of the Year in 1992. He was a fantastic prospect out of high school, but he was just one of those that hit a plateau and never got past it.

But in the end, he was more than serviceable. Busby could make plays with his arm most other QBs couldn’t, and when you combine that with the absolute best talent in the country catching the ball and blocking for you, well … you end up one game outside the national championship and a top four finish.

by tuckwell on Jan 21, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

He was good. But he didn't beat Miami

In one of those years that a win over Miami has us play for a NC, FSU was so goof for that 14 year period of never finishing lower then 5 or with more then 2 losses that QB’s from that time frame are almost exclusively based on what they did against UM and UF back then. UM the majority of years/ The winner was gonna play for a NC.

And a quick thnx to BC. Will never forget your last second FG to beat ND to avenge our 1 loss and send us to the Orange owl for that first ring.

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 22, 2011 3:47 AM EST up reply actions  

recruiting two quarterbacks

I think Weldon and Johnson were in the same class, as well as Ferguson and Willis. You could argue competition makes everyone better (see Miami)

by thejourney on Jan 18, 2011 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

Weldon started the year

Brad won a superbowl. Competition will weed out the weak. Both great NOLES!

by Danotheanimal on Jan 18, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if we're going to play this...

what IF Bobby had hired Norm Chow as OC when Richt left?

Most of these others I just write off due to the JB fiasco.

by wnc_nole on Jan 18, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions  

Oh, man. What if...

Or, I would still love to have seen what we would have done against OU if Richt hadn’t had Georgia on his mind.

by SolidNole on Jan 18, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Jared Jones

was never going to start. My buddy was roommates with weinke and my other buddy was SID at the time and they both told me he didn’t have the mental capacity to start. It just wasn’t being talked about outside the program.

"I saw coverage to the left, coverage to the right, and coverage up the middle and I said to myself, This is gunna be fun!" Peter Warrick on Punt Return

by kmp9494 on Jan 18, 2011 4:36 PM EST reply actions  

You talk about taking quarterbacks in the same year, but why not

if you want to avoid not having depth problems?

I remember many FSU fans made jokes about Aubrey Phillips when it turned out he showed up elsewhere out of shape. I do not remember the heart issues. I just thought people said he was lazy. Sorry to hear it if he really had health issues.

Wyatt Sexton was a coach’s son, but he was a four star recruit, had good grades so, like Trickett’s son, do not think he was brought on just for being a son. Whether the Lyme Disease thing was a front or not, it was sad his career ended early, as he surely would have been better than a freshman DW or XL (even though FSU did manage to do okay that year with the defense).

by nolestuff on Jan 19, 2011 12:10 AM EST reply actions  

Found this clip that shows what Sexton could do DW could not

Notice the first play. That is something I do not think DW could do. Even with poor play calling the Rix led teams could still get some points off bombs, but DW teams really could not from what I remember. The rest of the reel just makes the special teams for that year look bad though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC72-idX0ik

by nolestuff on Jan 19, 2011 12:21 AM EST reply actions  

Was there that day. And Sexton absolutely had more talent than Drew but to my knowledge Drew didn’t stay high as a kite.

This team will improve in '10... on its 16-16 conference record over the last 4 years.... after losing 20 games in the last 4 years... after having the 7th worst major-conference defense... after not even winning its own division in the ACC in the last 4.

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 19, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

What if

corey surrency got that extra year.
FSU had one RB and didnt run everyone.
MH took G5 starting spot.

What if BB and Co got to stay one more year.?

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jan 19, 2011 7:10 AM EST reply actions  

I think in this situation Desman is looking at

Leon Washington-Lo Booker.

Leon was by far the better back in my opinion. Could get tough yards. I would’ve played him till he pulled himself out of the game, not swapped them out each series.

by gob_bluth on Jan 21, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The Devaughn Darling tragedy

And the subsequent transfer of his brother, Devard. He was drafted by Baltimore after leaving here and playing at Washington State.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 19, 2011 9:58 AM EST reply actions  

It definitely cast a pall over the program

I think it took something out of Bowden as well.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 19, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going through 6am drills @ FAMU when it happened......and thinking ours weren't sh!t by comparison.

The S&C and “all out” coaching never recovered, IMO

http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
Oderint Dum Metuant
#GotJokes

by DRusso97 on Jan 19, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless you are a heartless bastard like O'leary, how do you recover as a coach from knowing you

had a part in the death of your player. And I am not putting any blame on any FSU coach, but I am sure those guys are still living with grief and guilt

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 20, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Regardless of fault....

i know if i were the coach I would blame myself. People tend to blame themselves for things even after its proven that they couldnt have prevented it.

by Dcubbienole on Jan 20, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

agree, just very tough for a coach to live with that

I'm sorry I ruined your lives and crammed 11 cookies into the VCR

by NaplesNole on Jan 20, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

survivors guilt

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 22, 2011 3:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Kinda thought

preston parker was ready to break out right before he got kicked out. I also liked the potential of that freshman TE who transfered to TN because he recognized that our coaching staff was incompetent.

by Kevinole on Jan 19, 2011 9:22 PM EST reply actions  

Xavier Lee

This might have disappointed me the most…We basically had our Vince Young, and couldn’t develop him

by az5950 on Jan 20, 2011 2:40 AM EST reply actions  

i dont recall Lee dancing shirtless with a bunch of men

just sayin, he was lazy as hell and apparently disinterested in improving himself as a QB, but at least he wasnt a headcase

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Jan 20, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Xavier loved the ladies

He just didn’t want to put the work in.

My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-1)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late lost will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and when the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011

by Legal_Seminole on Jan 22, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Fred Rouse

Though his problems were in his own head. He’s the one that got me thinking about recruiting rankings needing to include character and academics into their evaluations. Or at least a % on the likelihood that a player will be able to enroll and stay enrolled.

Great post Radio! I’ve often thought the same thing about our attrition rate. I know part of it was self inflicted because we were having to recruit players with character issues. You should post these in a list. It will be The Wall of the Dammed from the Lost Decade.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 20, 2011 9:45 AM EST reply actions  

they already do

thats why amp and jenkins were 3 stars – talented, but not expected to qualify, so their rating falls.

think about it like buying a car. you know a BMW 7 series was really nice inside and out, with a quality motor. but if that series has a high chance of lemons, you probably wont take the chance on it, so its value is significantly decreased, both in dollar and in reputation.

the same thing applies with grade or character issues, to an extent. grade issues would be the car not starting in the lot or breaking early, so it would take a low price (low risk) to convince most people to buy it. character issues would be like the car would have to go in for recalls all the time, making it potentially not worth your while. if you dont mind taking the car in and driving rentals all the time, it may be worth it to buy one. either of those issues is potentially non-existent, or could potentially be fixed after a time, but they could be a serious problem. its all about evaluating the particular car and making an educated guess, and the potential issues will lead most people to devalue that model.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Jan 20, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Good analogy

And you have a point. I do know that Rouse was a five star. Perhaps he was more of a mystery or didn’t show signs of trouble.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 21, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

people still pay full price for ferraris despite the constant repairs they require...

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Jan 21, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget

Kenny O’Neal at the WR spot

by nolestuff on Jan 22, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Goal Line BBQ

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Jan 21, 2011 9:28 AM EST reply actions  

Part of the problem, at least as far as QB's are concerned, is that the prior regime did not think taking a quality QB every year was a necessity.

Bowden preferred not starting a QB until he was a senior, or at the earliest a junior. Due to this line of thinking, he felt he could take a QB every other or every 2 years and have them ready to play when the next group was graduating.

Unfortunately, this thought process did not account for injuries, legal issues, grade issues, and all the other “issues” you stated in your post that contributed to players never reaching their potential.

I believe that Jimbo understands that you need to have 2 quality QB ready to play at any given time during the season, and I am happy he has put us in this comfortable position since he became our offensive coordinator. With the stronger, faster, more developed athletes on the college rosters today, especially on the defensive side, to think your starting QB will go completely unscathed during the full season is unrealistic. You need to take the best available QB that you can sign every year to groom for the future, and at the same time have at least one other that can contend for playing time and get as many game time snaps as possible, and another that can be somewhat prepared for an emergency situation.

Radio, you did a nice job here with your first fanpost.

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jan 21, 2011 1:00 PM EST reply actions  

*QUALITY
Due to this line of thinking, he felt he could take a *QUALITY * QB every other or every 2 years

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jan 21, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If by this point in your life you don't understand the difference, I'm certainly not going to waste my time explaining it to you.

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jan 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I probably wouldn't pay attention anyway.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 22, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I like that model.

You’re not going to get a 5* QB every single year, Bobby knew that. He usually had a guy in between who was never supposed to play, a guy like Outzen. If the worst happened, he could come in and finish out the game, but he’s never the hope for the future of the team.

by tuckwell on Jan 21, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

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