FSU Embarrassed at Auburn
by norcal_nole on Jan 3, 2011 10:33 PM EST
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PrintFlorida State travelled to Auburn for their final out-of-conference game and lost to a terrible Tigers team 65-60. Don’t be fooled by the name Auburn – they have no reason to be horrible in basketball, yet they are – this loss is every bit as bad as a loss to Mercer or Hawaii would have been. This is a loss that could haunt us on Selection Sunday in March. Had we scheduled like a Big East or Big Ten team this would simply be a bad loss, but thanks to completely inexcusable scheduling the stupid system known as RPI is now working against us. If you schedule a large slate of patsies and you accidentally lose to one, then you’re screwed in the eyes of the NCAA selection committee. Schedule like Florida and your RPI is 15 despite the exact same number of bad losses, and you’re projecting as a 4 or 5 seed. You can thank our clueless athletic director.
The Seminoles started ice cold against Auburn, hitting 1 of 15 3-pointers which led to a five point half time deficit. In the 2nd half we pounded the ball inside, but failed to finish, shooting 35% on the night, and 50% from the line (on 26 attempts). If we a) hit a couple 3’s, or b) make free throws, then we win this game handily. But we didn’t. Hat’s off to Tony Barbee’s club for doing enough to win.
Leonard Hamilton has been harping that no players beside Chris Singleton and Derwin Kitchen have been stepping up their game and demanding minutes, despite his insistence that he wants to shorten the rotation. If you doubted his sincerity before, you didn’t after this game. Singleton finished with 20 points, 10 boards and 3 steals. Unfortunately he went 4-12 from the line – but don’t let that persuade you, if even half the team showed up with as much intensity as Chris then we would have won this game going away. Kitchen, the other player who decided to make the trip, finished with 12 points, 7 assists and 6 rebounds.
It’s too early to say exactly what we need in ACC play to make the tourney, but we will need a very good conference/conference tourney season. At 1-0 in league play, we next travel to Virginia Tech and host Duke. Tech will likely be a coin a flip or we'll be a 1-2 point dog, and Duke will be an overwhelming favorite.
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Two things:
I’ve corrected you before, but Hamilton makes the schedule, not Spetman.
And Auburn’s RPI was 336 heading into this game. That’s out of 345 teams. This loss KILLS our already weak resume.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Worst loss since the days when we were losing to TAMU-CC and other crap schools
Time to give Ham an ultimatum on this offense. Either hire someone who will run the offense or GTFO
No.....
Ham should be fired period. He knows the problem and hasn’t addressed the issue. Case closed send him and his entire staff packing.
WOW...Our THREE big guys took SIX shots tonight
Bernard James………….23 min and shot 2-3 with 7 Reb and 4 Blocks
Terrance Shannon………12 min and shot 0-1 with 3 Reb
Jon Kreft……………………8 min and shot 1-2 with a Reb, Block, and Asst
What happened to Shannon? Kreft used to feed him for open layups all day.
Also I didn’t watch the game, but Kreft doesn’t seem to be getting into shape nearly as fast as I hoped, or just isn’t being very effective (though watching live tells me otherwise).
James seems to be the most polished right now (at least defensively), but will our big guys start using their size to their advantage on the offensive end anytime soon?
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
No one can get them the ball inside
Our guards are TERRIBLE at entry passes. That was clear last year when we could never feed Alabi when he had post position.
I watched Kreft in JC ball. He didn’t start a game that I can remember. He would go into a game, play 5 minutes and get 4 fouls and sit the rest of the game.
watched him for 2 years as I attended Chipola
Chipola plays extremely uptempo because they almost always have better talent than anyone they play. He probably averaged 10-15 minutes a game…but so did every player on the team because they have a history of playing everyone every game win or lose.
If you know anything about Chipola’s program you know they are traditionally a stepping stone to bigger colleges (sending guys to Kansas, WVU, FSU, ect.). They play to showcase talent, not to win games, but that is a byproduct.
Remember when Kreft was there Chipola also had the Junior College National Player of the Year on their team, Casey Mitchell. You probably recall him raining three’s from 35’ out. Dude was unbelievable.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Jan 4, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I am going to watch the game replay on ESPN3.
Then I will come here and post angry words.
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
Now ESPN3 isn't working on my comp.
I think that is an omen.
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
means u have to wait 2-3 days for it to be available
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Jan 4, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
Probably for the best
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
That was indeed a little frustrating
but it is up in all of its glory on ESPN3. SEC network commentators from the looks of it (not the brightest bunch) but they didn’t even harp on how bad our offense was too much. An obvious bias towards Auburn and a lack of examination on a couple of calls was a bit annoying. I had very little problems with the officiating crew as a whole. I heard it was a final four crew? This was honestly the first time I was flat out embarassed for this team. You could tell the airball chants (by all of like 500 people) got to them. It was the first time we didn’t have a sustained stretch where they proved they were the better team by a mile.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
We lost to a team of midgets
They started 4 guards and one pudgy(ish) white center. Watching our offense is offensive. Dulkys threw several passes directly to Auburn players, then didn’t seem too disappointed…or surprised. Snare is playing scared and is probably the biggest disappointment-just an average improvement over last year and we could be winning every game this year so far (except Ohio St.). Shannon does a good job getting to the line but would seriously be better off taking granny shots from the line. He really couldn’t miss more than he is. And how is it that we don’t have a clue how to operate a break with numbers? We consistently throw it way back, tonight to Kreft, while the lone defender draws an easy charge. So pathetic and painful. Is the administrative work Jeff Bowden was doing connected with basketball. *shameful
Your call on Snaer..
is dead on. This kid has so many opportunities game in and game out to drive and create, but if the opening isn’t totally wide open he bails! Grow a pair! and that pass to Kreft was stupid and late. Singleton has got to be pissed at his teammates this morning…he turned in a great effort.
So this spicy little Theta sat down in front of me as I watched Greg Allen run all over cincinatti in 1982 game in the erector set. She was screamin' and yellin' every bit as hard as I was. She still does. Turns out she was a keeper.
all good points
but when he misses 8 free throws he can only say so much
particularly when ft shooting was a weakness of his last year, and he had all year to ‘work on it’
Even though this game sucked
You have to love the intensity Singleton brings. It seems like he always makes one “dumb” mistake at the beginning of a game, then brings it for the rest of the night.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how, when he gets angry, he just decides to get a steal. He will then jump the next pass and get a steal 90% of the time (for example tonight on his steal and finish about halfway through the second quarter after his corner three)
Singleton has all the talent in the world, but he often makes multiple dumb mistakes per night.
I don’t fault him or any of our players, though. It’s our coaching. If we had better coaches, we’d be a real good team. We have NINE 4* and 5* recruits.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Again I disagree, wasn't our night
IMO SIngleton did not play a good game, we’ve had some bad TO’s but the one late which went outta bounds he didn’t even touch, was the nail in the coffin. He scored that many points b/c he was the only one who was making ANY baskets. What really killed us was a lack of dribble penetration but we couldn’t score from anywhere while ALLbarn was jacking up 3s over our guys and going in. We coulda been playing a JV high school team and it wouldn’t have mattered, our WIDE open shots were just not falling. Snaer 2-12 when 10 were wide open? not defending this loss but it was pretty putrid
It goes to coaching still
Hamilton has to go. Been saying it since Gonzaga.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Questioning the caliber of coaching in the FSU Men's BB program
FSU keeps getting decent quality players but only marginally improves each year if at all. Last night was just another example of the quality of coaching the Noles get….it isn’t bad enough that the Noles are a consistently sloppy ball handling team…last night they had a major size advantage and what do they do?…..take many of their shots from the perimeter….huh?…. and then without people in good position to make the rebounds if a miss occurs….I am no basketball coach but I know enough to be embarrased by the basketball program that my alma mater is currently running…it is a joke.
I could not watch the whole thing
They have no confidence on offense and I do not understand how gifted athletes could be so careless and stupid with the ball. I had no respect for Pat Kennedy and SR was simply not ready to be a head coach, but most of the time, no matter how poorly coached (PK) or untalented (SR), most of their players were running around trying to compete. I have never seen a team shoot as poorly as consistently as we do. Singleton deserves lots of praise, but what the hell does 4-12 from the line say about his concentration? Even our vaunted defense was so-so, especially from the effort and intensity side. I agree with the comment on Dulkys—how do you just toss it to the other team and remain expressionless? I am not a fair weather fan (I don’t think) but all I get from watching the Noles men’s team is frown lines. Too old, too busy to watch that crap. I am very disappointed in Ham and staff.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
If we get rid of Hamilton...
Who are the options to bring in? Do we shell out big dollars and try and lure Pitino (hoping he has something left in the tank)? Who are the hot young coaches (Wojo? C. Collins?)?
What are the options?
I’m asking because I’m interested in improving our program…
Anybody...
Seriously… anybody with the desire to be great who has even WORKED for someone who has been a good coach before. I don’t care if it’s Rick Pitino’s manservant or Chris Collins. We do not need to find someone like Pitino (personally I’d never want him anyways) but someone who understands basketball and can teach it, or at least has an employment history which leads me to believe he is likely to be able to teach it to the kids.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
We already shell out big dollars for Hamilton
1.5MIL make him about the 20th highest paid coach in NCAA
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Jan 4, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Just to be sure,
“bottom 20” in terms of results is not accurate. We’re #1 defense, and 100-ish offense of 350ish teams.
You can phrase it as “gets less out of the elite players he recruits than all but 20 coaches” or something along those lines, but “bottom 20” by itself is just hyperbole.
I know. I am being melo-dramatic b/c I'm pissed.
My assesment wasn’t fair.
I know. (See above).
He did, however, just lose to a bottom 20 team though………..
Just saying
we need to get someone young out of the Pitino coaching tree
or the jim boheim coaching tree.
Dave Rose, BYU.
Frank Martin, Kansas State
And there are likely dozens of other coaches at smaller schools worth a look-see.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Trying to figure out how to get Hamilton canned is beyond my level of technical
competence, and I’ve run out of adjectives to describe how poorly coached his teams are.
Focusing on the matter at hand, and how to right a quickly listing ship, the brute fact is that this is one very, very bad shooting team. This has been a consistent theme from the beginning this year, as much a theme as their propensity to turn the ball over. Dulkys’ slump simply reveals in an undeniable way how bad this team is at the very basic task of making fg’s. And I don’t see that being fixable by a coach, even if we had a coach. We can’t hit shots and that’s the way it is. Maybe this is beacause, as some allege, that Hamilton recruits athletes and not basketball players. Makes sense.
What this means to me is that, as Dulkys goes, so goes this team. If he doesn’t hit outside shots, our opponents can stay in a zone, and we won’t even make the NIT. Hamilton might as well pull Dulkys aside, and tell him he is never coming out of a game, and he is to continue shooting and I don’t care if he is 0 for 15 from the three-point line.
He is either breaking out of his slump or he is the captain of this Titanic. There should be some horrible penalty for Dulkys for every time he gets the ball and doesn’t shoot.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
by GoNolzOhio on Jan 4, 2011 8:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Kitchen could hit some dadgum shots if he would take them.
I think this is one of trick’s mantras (which happens to be pretty accurate in this case).
In terms of realistic, broader solutions, Stan needs to take a job as a HC for a small program, or else, at the least, Cor(e)y Clark has got to go to open up a spot for an offensive guy.
I hate to say it, but honestly Enfield is the 2nd offensive coach on staff to Jones, and despite everything he’s done with FT shooting and recruiting, I am beginning to wonder whether that value is sufficient in light of the historically bad overall FG shooting this season.
yea, I am wondering about Enfield myself.
2 years ago, when we were shooting FT’s better than anyone, I called him the best coach in any sport that FSU had. Now, it appears that was only a schoolboy’s crush.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
I still think he does well in some respects...
SOMEHOW looking past last night, Singleton has made huge strides at the charity stripe, and our players have consistently made 5-10% improvements on a yearly basis there. And then you’ve got Al’s and Toney’s development of their outside shot as proof of other contributions. So I’m not saying we should throw out any consideration for positive things he brings.
I am, however, questioning whether the value added is greater than what an assistant could bring that was more well-schooled in schematics and in-game strategy, where we’re all cognizant of the deficiencies.
you're right. my comment was a little over the top due to my extreme disappointment
at this point. Your points here are solid.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
It seems we recruit some guys who just can't hit free throws.
But that first year or two of Enfield really had me thinking he was a miracle worker. Once that crop of players graduated we’ve seen what happened to our ft%. I’m with you that I’m definitely not as impressed with him as I once was.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Agreed, our FT% the past few years has been average at best.
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
I agree we aren't a good shooting team but we don't gameplan to get better shots and to quit relying so heavily on the outside jumper.
With the amount of talent on this team there is no excuse for having to rely on any single player to be a good club that meets expectations and plays up to its ability.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Stan Jones needs to be relieved of his duties after the season.
If Ham refuses to bring in someone that can run a competent offense that utilizes the strengths of the players you are recruiting, then he needs to be shown the door. A loss like this is unacceptable and showed how clueless Ham and his staff are when it comes to offense. I’m all in favor of bringing in a young, top mid major coach to replace Ham. This was one of the most embarrassing losses that I can recall ins ome time.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
you won't separate Hamilton and Jones.
Nor would there be any sense in that. The only sensible move is the Clean Slate.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
I don't think this is necessarily true.
I believe Stan has been courted by some small schools for the head gig, and he has aspirations in that regard. The question is whether he believes he is opting for a gig like that RATHER than waiting and replacing Ham at FSU. If sentiment about the overall staff sours to a certain point, I think he will be able to see the writing on the wall with regard to taking over at FSU, and a departure might be a possibility. Directly tied to overall success though, so that’s where we have to wait and see whether 11-5 is pie in the sky or not, this season.
I guess I am looking at it from the point of view of whether or not Hamilton would
stick around if he was told to fire one of his coaches.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
I am hoping that they can come to the mutual conclusion of what is best for both of them.
My scan of the interwebz tells me that Ham’s unconditional support in the fanbase officially dried up last night… both to the uninformed wishy washy crowd as well as to those that realize the true implications of this loss in terms of our RPI/what’s necessary in the ACC to get an NCAA bid with this blemish on our resume.
We’ll genuinely have to pull off an amazing ACC season and make the NCAAs to relieve the cloud that will be cast over the program. Per Bud’s tweets, it is clear the official TN position has already gone full-bore thumbs down on the regime, and I doubt any of the other major FSU media outlets (Jeff Cameron, WC, the Democrat) will buck that trend (short of the unthinkable ACC scenario noted above). So, in sum, Ham/Stan won’t be able to ignore the pressure unless we make the NCAAs, and contrary to popular belief, I don’t think either of them are brick-stupid.
I hope to heaven you are right, both about the tide turning, and about
the possiblity of change at the end of the year.
I am not ashamed to admit that I took this loss almost as hard as the Wisconsin loss 2 years ago in the Dance. What this loss lacked because of the fact that it wasn’t a tourney game was made up for with the reality of how bad a team we lost to last night.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
That is exactly what it is
I have never been more disappointed in an FSU team. I mean, while they played some okay zone defense, we really weren’t that great on defense tonight. We were merely above average. That is the difference between most of our wins this year and this loss.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
At least we didn't dominate Auburn for 3/4 of regulation and then blow it.
That was more heartbreaking in that regard. Last night was just meh. I’m so used to it now. It’s just like the last 7-8 years of Bowden.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Here, here.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Can't say i didnt expect something like this but...
i’m still speechless that it happened.
i’m done clamoring for Hamilton to be fired. I wasted way too much of my breath last season doing so. I’m more sad for the players who aren’t being developed the way they should be. Pretty pathetic when my gf who never watches basketball says while watching with me “wow they are really bad at offense huh?”.
Seriously!
My girlfriend does the same exact thing and she doesn’t even enjoy basketball. She’s even asked me point blank, “how come no one goes to the basket?” Its ridiculous. The girl hasn’t ever watched basketball before she started dating me – and she’s picked up more offense than the entire FSU staff/players seem to know how to run. How is that possible?
would going to the hoop matter? We miss shots around the rim, we miss bunny shots
on 3-on-1 breaks, we miss FT’s, and we miss 3-pointers.
Although I would still prefer your girlfriend to the current head coach.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
Oh I know
Just saying that she notices something so simple that the staff isn’t preaching.
And yes, her basketball 101 level knowledge is better than what’s currently being taught (nothing – “go make a play”).
We need to fall apart the rest of the year
for there to be any real movement toward firing Hamilton.
FSU Defense 2010: Taking back 1st down.
Would not making the NCAAT and losing 1st or 2nd round in the NIT be good enough?
I think that’s a very likely outcome.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Can someone tell me what happens during practice?
They certainly aren’t practicing sets, because we don’t run any. This pick up basketball crap that we play on offense is downright embarrassing. Plenty of people outside the program (us) have seen these problems years ago – no change has been made – and the problem is the same and always will be.
Ham needs to go. Now. There are no two ways about it. The sooner it happens, the better off the program will be. It will happen at some point; I know this because I know the offense isn’t going to fix itself. So whether it takes 3 years of missing the NCAAT in a row or Spetman to show some foresight and fire him now – its inevitable. Someone tell me why it shouldn’t happen today.
[End Rant]
I've heard that
In practice, theu actially execute, and shots fall.
The guy who I go to about Bball stuff has been an FSU basketball fan for a million years, and is “a friend of the program” (I’m pretty sure he played, but I don’t know his last name to fact check). Thats what he says…in practice, shots go down.
He also says that practices are very slow paces, and lifeless…very little enthusiasm.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Jan 4, 2011 12:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well the way you practice translates to the way you play.
You can’t just turn on a switch once tip-off occurs. Practice needs to simulate game speed and scenerios – hence practice. Thats just downright unacceptable to me.
Agree...
I really wish Jimbo would visit practice…
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Jan 4, 2011 12:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if they're making a lot of shots in practice
then the defense isn’t playing hard. Is our coaching staff not pushing them?
Practices are actually very well structured and fundamental (on D at least)
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
Well until it becomes that way on O
our offense will continue to struggle, even against crap teams like Auburn/Hawaii
What game does Spetman watch? Or is he just a figure head AD?
I don’t think he has made a move to fire or replace anyone on the entire staff. It may be time to replace Spet and Ham at the same time.
At least Maryland had the guts to fire the Coach of the Year because their program was stagnant and not moving forward. You gotta do what you gotta do—-replace Ham with some new blood.
All Spetman cares about is that Ham graduates his players, he runs a clean program,
we’re not terrible. At least that’s what I’ve gleaned from his actions and his interviews.
I actually think Maryland WAS movin forward, honestly.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Jan 4, 2011 12:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Compared to 2009, I agree. Compared to 2004-2009, I don't.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
And compared to pre-Friedgen they're also obviously improved.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
Yeah...I'm looking at big picture.
Just a weird time to fire the guy, IMO
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
I understand why they did it.
Had no intentions of bringing him back after his one final season. So why even wait?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
I just can't watch anymore
It is so painful to watch this team. Reading the articles one would think we are loaded with talent but we play like this? There is a failure somewhere whether it is coaching or players. Either way I do not see much good coming from this season since we are just starting conference play.
HAM HAS TO GO!!!!
Underachieving, ill prepared and undisciplined. Jezuss! Can’t and won’t watch until he is gone.
Hey Ham...here's step one...
You keep whining about too many guys in the rotation…SIT DULKYS’ ASS DOWN !!!
can't sit Dulkys. This team is dead in the water without an outside shooter, and he
is our best option. You may be right that he is not that good, but I don’t see another option. If Dulkys stays in his slump during the ACC schedule, this team will be lucky to get to 40 points. We don’t know how to get the ball inside against Auburn, I shudder to think what ACC defenses will do with our offense.
Dulkys needs to play as much as possible, and shoot as much as possible,. hopefully shooting his way out of this slump.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
Obviously, he's having some trouble with some Eastern bloc mafia group + gambling debts.
20+ point shaving.. we haz it.
by arrdub on Jan 4, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He came out on those first
few possessions agressive which was a nice improvement. Posting up a smaller player, moving without the ball, actually hitting a three ball, but he really is struggling to just simply hit shots. I feel like he played pretty solid defense last night for the most part.
The player I’m most confused about is Snaer. While it is becoming very clear that Snaer was very overrated coming out of high school, I still think he was a top 100 player, which makes me wonder why his confidence is suddenly so low. His shooting form was kind of different and I’m wondering if it was just the first time I’m noticing it or if it was kinda off.
I feel like a lot of shots were missed because these guys do not look like they have easily repeatable mechanics. Chris Singleton gets away with it sometimes because he is trying to draw a foul and or is really talented. I wish Kitchen would shoot a little more, he has a shot with a comparatively high release point and he is relatively consistent with his mid-range jumper.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like his shooting form was always a little funky
the rotation of the ball never seemed to be smooth coming off his hand, IMO
Unlike many on here,
I was/am a Dulkys fan. But his shooting [insert word 3 steps down from “slump”] is simply confounding, and the entry passes in this game and vs. Ohio State, in particular, made me raise an eyebrow… he’s not that stupid. (I was only half-way joking about that Russian mafia stuff.)
Compared to most
I would be considered a dulkys fan. He is not shooting bad shots, hes getting decent rotation on the ball, the balls simply are not falling and he is playing good defense. When he gets hot, he is a fantastic 2 guard. If noone remembers, I believe there was a period last year where Dulkys was our best offensive player, so I’m not yet willing to sell on him considering how poorly the rest of the team is playing. Ian Miller… groin injury still? I’m tired of seeing Pierre Jordan’s high ass on the court.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sit Dulkys...put Loucks @ point...
Tell Kitchen if he doesn’t start shooting Snaer will play SG.
Tell Loucks to pass into Singleton, James, Shannon, White and Kreft.
We couldn’t do any worse then we did last night.
Cant sit Dulkys...
He’s a solid defender, and is instant offense when “on”. Gotta live with “Slumpy” on the floor in the event he does figure it out.
I’ve heard that Dulkys has concentration issues b/w the ears…He “thinks” too much about every little part of his mechanics.
Trying to read b/w the lines…we have a shooting coach, and a kid who has clearly regressed as a shooter. Gotta wonder if he’s beinh overcoached.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Jan 4, 2011 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're right of course he has to play but
I’d certainly sit him for 2 or 3 games to “think” about his passing and how piss poor it has been.
That just make it worse
cuz then he’ll be thinking “ok, if I miss too many shots – I’m not going to be able to do what I love for a few days”. Which, if he is an over-thinker by trade, will make him go batshItcrazy.
Not to mention we can’t afford to sit him now that ACC play is in full swing.
..
we have a shooting coach, and a kid who has clearly regressed as a shooter. Gotta wonder if he’s beinh overcoached.
Hasn’t someone, somewhere pointed out that he never shot above 33% in HS? And his 1st season, he was a 28.6% 3-pt shooter… last year he was up to 39.7%… and in parts of this season, he looked like he was going to be GREAT for us this year up until the Hawaii game….. so the coaching seemed to be helping for the most substantial stretch of his career here… but still don’t know why 2-20 over the last 4 games???
The high school stat is true.
His shot has clearly improved in his time here, not only in accuracy but he’s also learned a much quicker release. Of all of our problems, his 3 pt shooting is the one I’m least concerned about.
and yet it's so pivotal to our outcomes.
thus, the tangent to this is where we rightfully direct our criticism, in that we have to be able to scheme ourselves into inside opportunities when outside shots are not falling.
Unfortunately our schemes involve a lot of bad, off hand entry passes to the opposing team.
I’d rather they chuck up airballs, at least our turnover numbers would improve.
Yeah, was it MattD, or FrankD, that suggested the chuck up the 3 offense?
Conspiracy theory: maybe Ham & Co. actually read and listened…. to their own demise????
I agree with norcal's Chuck-Up-Airballs offense.
Attempting to run whatever it is we call an offense results mostly in turnovers. We can get rebounds and we can defend. Maybe the outside shooting gets marginally better, and we sneak into the Dance.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
i think march madness is virtually impossible now
i think we’d need to be #2 in the ACC to make up for our bad OOC resume.
Woah...
Did not know that his HS numbers were 33%, and had NO idea that he was at nearly 40% last year (Id be interested to see the game log…see if he dropped off in league play).
I just keep waiting for the “light to come on”…
There obviously is a huge disconnect somewhere…not sure how much is coaching and how much is players inability to perform come gametime.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Jan 4, 2011 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Loucks turns it over too much, trying to make impossible passes.
So this spicy little Theta sat down in front of me as I watched Greg Allen run all over cincinatti in 1982 game in the erector set. She was screamin' and yellin' every bit as hard as I was. She still does. Turns out she was a keeper.
Hey Ham...her's step deux...
Retire, resign or just get the f outta here.
Hamilton won't go until Spetman goes
Spetman won’t be told to leave until FSU gets more important university matters in order. Sad, but true.
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 4, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
Academics, staff, fundraising
Gripper Nation - Against Miami: Bobby Bowden .400 Winning %: All other FSU coaches combined .500 Winning %
And that's what the newish President Barron has to get in order.
Just to clarify, as it seems like Rivernole might have thought Spetman needed to get things in order before firing Hamilton.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
So lets talk about this....
anyone have Spetman’s number? Is it time to call our congressman? Is there anything the average fan can do other than just be apathetic about it? I originally meant this as a joke, but if anyone has any serious responses to it, I’d like to hear it.
1. Call Jim Smith...
he can get things done.
2. Stay home
D. Turn the tv off.
4. Don’t donate to the program.
by Rivernole on Jan 4, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This wasn't bad scheduling
it’s only bad because the ACC is extremely worse than it usually is. games against UF, OSU, Baylor, and the usual ACC schedule should result in around 8 games against ranked top 25 opponents with additional opportunities in the ACC tournament. This season is a down year for the ACC and it’s possible with every team already having 3+ losses (except for Duke) that only one ACC team will be ranked throughout the season.
Knowing what we do know I’d think that we’d schedule more top 50 opponents.
7 out of conference games against opponents projected to have an RPI at 250 or higher is completely inexcusible.
Florida scheduled 1. Smart teams figure out who will have a good RPI, but aren’t necessarily good teams, and schedule them.
Agree with this.
Even if in a normal year 9-7 ACC gets us in, it would be possible to drop the 250+’ers and replace with 150-ers and go from a bubble-in to a high seed courtesy a MUCH stronger RPI…. we are systematically ham-stringing (excuse the pun) our March chances by ignoring a fallacy within the RPI system.
On that last point, I believe the RPI system should be re-worked to diminish the differences between lower tier teams. It should be a curved (parabolic) weighting system that treats #200 very similarly to #300, but increases value more sharply towards the top of the spectrum. (e.g., playing #200 vs. #300 is purely semantic in terms of what happens on the court, but its impact on RPI is profound.)
If anyone thinks the RPI is meaningful statistically, just start betting the money line base on RPIs.
When you have to start pawning your electronics to pay your bills then we can talk.
Terrible scheduling on Hamilton's part.
God awful, really.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
I stopped paying attention to the basket ball team since Kennedy left...
…call it apathy but they play like this every year…eventually…don’t they?
No, not exactly. We've had some very strong runs late in the season.
The offensive system has indeed been lacking, but having individual players that could create their own shots covered up much of this… it was just the inevitable Gonzaga/Wisconsin super-disciplined team that would serve as an impenetrable obstacle.
We've had one good late season run: Douglas' senior year.
And it ended in another brilliant loss.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
So in the last 3 or 4 years
we have de-volved to the point where a team like Auburn with a 300+ RPI now is our impenetrable obstacle ?
God help us.
assume this is in response to my post,
and my reply is that our “devolution” has occurred in the form that we lack a player that can consistently create their own shot this year, whereas we have consistently had that player in years past. So we’re vulnerable to just about any team that is committed to clogging the interior.
I definitely agree with this.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
Bobby Knight has always said...
“No question, I’d much rather coach a team with some offensive talent and teach them to play defense than taking a skilled defensive team and teaching them to play offense”.
by Jersey Nole on Jan 4, 2011 1:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
yeah
a lot about defense is effort/scheme. offense requires more talent.
offense is a state of mind
much like putting in golf – if you think you are good that is 90% of the battle. Our kids look lost and tentative on offense, no aggressiveness ( other than Shannon and sometimes Singleton) they will never be good on offense until they think they are.
i think a large amount of it has to do with confidence
but against top level opponents you need guys with offensive talent. Singleton gets a lot of his offense from confidence but the inconsistency game to game has to do with a lack of offensive talent.
of course bobby knight is a narcissistic johnson
who has lost touch of both basketball and reality…
did you see him toward the end of his time at t tech?
in recruiting, team performance and just overall mannerisms – he’s lost it…
He also didn't have the players.
Teaches the exact offensive system as Ham (with more screens and less isolation). And if he wants to punch our players, that’s cool, they probably deserve it.
exactly -
and if he cant recruit players w/ his track record, his history of putting guys in the association
it seems to me that ‘knight’ lost it his edge
plus did you see the press conference where he talked w his grandson the entire time – he seemed so bizarre, bitter and unstable you started fearing for the safety of the kid
Look at the way the kids move on offense and compare to defensive end
look like two different teams IMO.
I don't think we are all that great on the defensive end to be honest.
A lot of our shortcomings are covered by our superior length. Length doesn’t translate nearly as well to efficiency on offense as it does on defense.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."
"Correct, Sir Trick."
"Thanks tricknole!"
This is true
but at least it feels like they know what they’re doing on defense. They are there on most of the rotations they need to be, but that could just be the superior athlete factor we have on most schools. We get away with a lot of on defense that we shouldn’t be able to because we’re a frustrating team to play with our length and peskiness. I wish we could get a redo on this year with another coach. This year’s team definitely has more potential than most teams have and plenty of previous teams. There are some skilled guys on this team. But still no true PG, which would be pretty helpful.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
If you watch them it's completely obvious how well schooled they are on defense.
Duke is the only ACC school that can match it.
Yeah definitely did not mean to say they got away with a lot
but sometimes their defensive strategies (or maybe individual player’s mental mistakes) make you scratch your head. I feel like it was brought up earlier in the year about the pick and roll defense?
Another note, did anyone notice on the closeouts on 3 pointers that our players would frequently run into/hit the player after the shot (particularly some of the made ones I can remember)? Is that something that would regularly called a foul or is it too far afterward or is it up to the disgression of the official.
by zeitgeistnole on Jan 4, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Everytime we give up an open shot their are posters who talk about lack of fundamentals,
or mental mistakes, but the vast majority is the system they’re executing. When a poor handler – for example – attacks in the elbow area we’ll always trap him. Always have under Ham, always will. Then we overplay the passing lanes and end up getting a lot of our steals that way. But if the other team plays it correctly they end up with an open three and someone in the game threads immediately knee jerks about “lack of fundamentals” when in fact the kids are doing exactly as they’re coached.
As to your closeout point from this last game – not sure, though I did notice our guys seeming to forget that their long freshman who got hot from 3 was left handed, and they collided with him a couple times.
by norcal_nole on Jan 4, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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