Recruiting Rankings Do Matter
Every year we hear pundits proclaim that recruiting rankings do not matter. And every year Matt Hinton proves them wrong. Very, very wrong. I have lamented Hinton's move to his new Yahoo! platform because I find his articles less in-depth than before as he is asked to crank out content more frequently. But he does this series very, very well. This year he did a five-part series, and it is the best he has ever done. I encourage you to read them all, I have profiled them here.
The ratio always looks identical on a per-capita basis, and it is not a crapshoot. Four and five-star players are roughly seven times as likely as two and three-star players to land on an All-America team, and the numbers in the NFL Draft tend to be even even more lopsided toward the hyped recruits. All the more reason to want as many of them as you can get your hands on.
Since 2006, only 25 different schools have finished in the top 10 of the final Associated Press poll at least once; 15 have finished that high at least twice, accounting for 40 of the 50 top-10 slots in that span. And fully half of those slots – 26 of 50 – have been occupied by one of 10 schools: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas and USC.
Those 10 also happen to be among the 13 schools – along with Florida State, Miami and Tennessee (three programs with terrible coaching for much of the last decade) – that have consistently finished at the top of the recruiting rankings.
Those 13 schools alone have consistently produced a majority of the top five in the final polls, half of the top 10, at least half of the teams in the BCS and all of the national champions in the BCS era. (With Auburn's triumph – thanks mainly to über recruit Cam Newton, the five-star headliner of a top five class last year – only two of the top dozen recruiting powers have failed to win a BCS championship: Georgia and Michigan. Last year, Oregon was only the third team form outside of the group to even play for a BCS title, joining Virginia Tech in 1999 and Nebraska in 2001, and we might find the '01 Cornhuskers were a pretty highly regarded bunch themselves if those numbers were available.)
You know this already, but in black and white: In any given season, you can count on at least 50 percent of the nation's elite teams on the field coming from the 10 percent that routinely dominate the recruiting rankings. Every year. If n elite class doesn't guarantee a team vaulting to the top of the polls, it still dramatically increases the odds. Doc then explains that the other teams typically have once-in-a-generation luck and a super easy schedule if they accomplish such a finish.
Star Power: Judging the recruiting rankings, game by game - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF - Yahoo! Sports
...on the final count, the higher-ranked team (by recruiting stars) won about two-thirds of the time (just a hair over 66 percent, to be exact), and every "class" as a whole had a winning record against every class ranked below it. The gap on the field also widened with the gap in the recruiting scores: At the extremes, "one-star" recruiting teams collectively managed one win over a five-star team (Iowa State over Texas) and one win over a four-star (Vanderbilt over Ole Miss) in 24 tries.
Star Power: The nation's most overachieving teams - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF - Yahoo! Sports
... even most of the low-on-the-totem-pole schools that consistently turn in the kind of winning percentages that put the initial assessments their lineup to shame – see Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah and other would-be BCS party crashers over the last five years – pile up those wins over other low-on-the-totem-pole outfits whose recruiting rankings didn't fare much better. Those five schools have combined for four regular season wins in five years over teams whose overall recruiting numbers (according to Rivals) put them in the top 25 nationally since 2006. The vast majority of upstarts feed on other would-be upstarts.
3. Virginia Tech. The Hokies haven't fared particularly well against the upper echelon – they were blown out by eventual BCS champ LSU in 2007, and again by eventual BCS champ Alabama in 2009 – but their middle-of-the-pack prowess on the trail hasn't stopped them from dominating the ACC: Tech is 9-3 since '07 against conference peers Florida State, Miami, Clemson and North Carolina, all of which have ostensibly out-recruited the Hokies, with three ACC championships in the same span.
All told, Tech ranks at the fringes of the top 25 in terms of recruiting, but with back-to-back wins over Nebraska and a Chick-Fil-A Bowl rout of Tennessee in 2009, it's won twice as often as its lost over the last four years against teams that brought in more talent according to the gurus.
Then again, Tech is 0-27 all-time against top-ten teams. The records against FSU, Miami, and Clemson are hardly surprising considering how poorly coached those teams have been for the better part of the last decade. The evidence shows the Hokies can beat talented teams that are poorly coached, but cannot beat talented teams who are well coached.
Star Power: The nation's most underachieving teams - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF - Yahoo! Sports
5b. Florida State. The Seminoles' recent penchant for disappointment may not be as extreme as you think: Florida State is the only team on this list with a winning record each of the last four years (its streak of winning seasons stands at 34, the longest in the nation), and has finished in the top 25 in two of the last three. In relative terms, though, no collection of "underachievers" is complete without the 'Noles, now five years removed from their last ACC championship in a league they once ruled with an iron fist, and more than a decade out from their last foray among the national elite.
FSU has continued to dominate the rest of the Atlantic Division on the recruiting trail, but also has multiple losses against four of its five Atlantic rivals since 2006, with losing records against Boston College, Clemson and perennial recruiting doormat Wake Forest, owner a stunning three-game winning streak over the 'Noles from 2006-08. Last month's Chick-Fil-A Bowl win over South Carolina capped a 10-win campaign in Jimbo Fisher's first season as head coach, which seemed like a significant step forward. That in itself pretty much sums up the lost decade.
Together with last week's group of overachievers, we've now seen almost a dozen teams over the last four years that have consistently defied the scouts' projections in one direction or another … and four times as many that have performed, over time, pretty much exactly as the rankings projected them to perform. The outliers are notable because they're just that: Outliers.
And there you have it. What can we learn from this?
Elite recruiting is necessary but not sufficient to have an elite team. That is, it won't guarantee you an elite team, but if you don't recruit at an elite level, you will be guaranteed not to have a consistently elite team.
What does this mean for FSU?
If you accept the premise that FSU now has good coaching, then you should expect FSU to begin consistently (not always) beating teams with lesser talent. The facts say FSU should begin beating ACC teams at a better than 66% clip, as FSU will soon (give it a year) have more talent than all of them. The facts say FSU should be able to at least split with teams like UF, Miami, Clemson; all teams with similar talent levels. It also means Virginia Tech could be in trouble if they don't improve their recruiting.
Please do take the time to peruse each of Matt's articles. It is an excellent series and is worthy of a traffic bump. You will learn much more than I have excerpted here.
170 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
the world is flat
Was the mainstream position. Funny these days it is used to dismiss controversial positions.
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
The world being flat or not was also a controversial position. And “recruiting stars don’t matter” is a mainstream position as well, hence the people trying to debunk the common misconception.
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->
this is exciting
From not only a national perspective, but really from an acc perspective, considering how poorly they have recruited (in comparrison to the ’Noles)
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 31, 2011 1:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
and by they
I mean the entire conference, unfortunately hahah
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 31, 2011 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
All considerations about stars mattering aside,
Then again, Tech is 0-27 all-time against top-ten teams. The records against FSU, Miami, and Clemson are hardly surprising considering how poorly coaches those teams have been for the better part of the last decade. The evidence shows the Hokies can beat talented teams that are poorly coached, but cannot beat talented teams who are well coached.
Ouch.
I'm a little confused by that "0-27" against top ten.
Is that recruiting class top 10 or actual ranking top 10?
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think they have 1 win. Granted it still sucks.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
that stat really is shocking for how much VT is thought to be the crown of the ACC in football...
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Jan 31, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
they are consistently a B team
and dont’ beat Miami or FSU consistently when the latter are A teams – but can beat them fine when they are B or C teams.
They're a perfect also ran for the FSU Dynasty v2.0.
Meet a quality, but not elite, opponent and smash them in the ACCCG to get that last kick into the title game.
Their 1 win was over UM in '02 or '03.
Which, in hindsight, was an overrated team and the beginning of the end for da U.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
they actually have five wins vs. Top 10 teams ....
just since 2003:
2003 vs. No. 2 Miami
2004 vs. No. 6 WVU
2004 at No. 9 Miami
2006 vs. No. 10 Clemson
2009 vs. No. 9 Miami
I don’t have time to look more into it but wiki says 1-26 vs. top 5 opponents under Beamer, maybe that was the intention.
Oh yeah, vs. top-5 is what I was thinking of.
Is it possible none of those teams “finished” the season in the top 10 and that’s where the 0-27 came from?
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Miami finished No. 5 in 2003
not sure about others, maybe they beat teams that weren’t top 10 that later finished in top 10, who knows. And I wasn’t talking about your intention, but Bud’s in original post
I knew what you were saying. I'm confused by the "0-27" statement.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
VT fans know this all too well
It would be nice to see how Beamer and co. could do with an “elite” recruiting class, but for whatever reason, he has never pulled one in. One 5-star recruit every 4 years just won’t cut it against the teams with talent and coaching. Most frustrating parts of VT football are recruiting season and the top-10 matchup… It just doesn’t end well.
by Chazz Micheal Michealzz on Jan 31, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
So even if UF has a down recruiting year this year, does this mean
we should be very afraid of the talent the new Gator coaches will have to work with? I heard someone on ESPN last year claim that UF’s class was possibly the best he had seen all time.
They have as much talent as anyone. People are very very excited about the talent FSU is bringing in, but they will be freshman and expectations will be wildly inflated.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Have to like that it was talent mostly recruited for a different system though
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Sadly, DL was the strength of that class, and system won't matter much.
They had like 3 top 10 players on the DL, I believe.
I meant the talent from 2009 and 2008
I know the 2010 DL guys will be fine regardless, I’m mostly referencing offensive skill position players for those two years.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
To an extent, but I don’t see many guys who won’t be able to excel in a pro-style system. They kicked the recruiting crap out of FSU for almost a decade.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
While true the classes from 2001 to 2007 don't matter
Agreed they will have more experienced talent, just think the transition period will slow them down.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
the talent UF is biringing in this year is not what we should worry about next
From ESPN
2008 ranked #4
2009 ranked #5
2010 ranked #1
UF had a bad season last year. They still have more talent there than other schools we will play. I hate saying this but they get one bad year its not going to take them out of the pic. Same goes with Miami.
2008 ranked #1
2009 ranked #7
2010 ranked #13
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Good point
But isn’t there an article somewhere on TN where it talks about how Miami’s 2010 recruiting class was propped up by getting more skill players than necessary (specifically runningbacks) Also, you have to consider that Miami might really be spiraling… they might not struggle this year due to talent, but they will probably struggle due to a new coaching staff. By the time the coaching change isn’t an issue, they’ll be too far behind FSU talent wise.
Next year won't be the year they'll have their biggest impact
2012 and 2013 will be when I am most afraid of that class. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be afraid because the Gata recruited well in 2009 and 2008 as well, just saying the majority of the damage done to us next year won’t be the 2010 or 2011 kids.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
At least that gives us time
to hope by then some of those big recruits doing like many FSU recruits the last decade and not being there for long.
it means rankings for UF's recruiting matter...
only when their class is highly ranked. When they aren’t, they are recruiting for needs only, and their ranking doesn’t matter!
by Dangerous Dave! on Jan 31, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
While I agree with the premise...
…of the argument. I wonder how much the recruiting ratings become self fulfilling prophecies as far as recruits becoming All-Americans. When kids come out of HS hyped, how much more publicity do they get by college analysts. The reason I ask, is because when I look at the roster of my Packers, for instance, I see a lot of guys on offense and defense who were unheralded out of high school.
While big schools are represented (Woodson at Michigan, Clifton and Wells at Tenn, Hawk at OSU), there are more players that either went to big schools rated low (Raji at BC as a 2*, Rodgers having to go JUCO, and Matthews having to walk-on at USC), or small school guys (Jennings at Western Mich, Driver at Alcorn State, Williams at Louisianna Tech, Collins at Bethune Cookman, James Starks at Buffalo).
When All-American teams are voted, it seems to me the name recognition gives the hyped kids out of high school an advantage. Similar stats by less prominent players can be overlooked and until NFL scouts really evaluate guys physically and intellectually at the combine it’s all just a beauty pageant.
Of course I want all the highly rated guys we can get. Just a thought.
Not an issue
Kids don’t make AA teams based on HS hype or the kind of recruit they were. On the whole, most people don’t follow recruiting and more than a few of the reporters are still skeptical. The buzz from being a 4* or 5* doesn’t trump production on the field.
by osceolafan2.0 on Jan 31, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
The reason I ask, is because when I look at the roster of my Packers, for instance, I see a lot of guys on offense and defense who were unheralded out of high school.
But how many players are out there who are not highly rated? It’s a matter of likely outcomes.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
This is your intuition based on anecdote.
They guy’s articles have the numbers actually worked out. Higher rated players definitively ARE more likely to have a lot of success.
I don't dispute the math...
I just think there tends to be some groupthink or other cognitive bias involved in player ratings. We’ve joked here before about how a 5* guy ends up a 4* after committing to us or a 3* becomes a 5* after committing to UF. I think the bias can carry over into college.
This doesn’t mean I’m not extremely excited about this class or that I think anyone is over or underrated. I was just thinking out loud…
Gotcha. I think that kind of thing exists, so, yeah, it's not a perfect system by any means,
but, all things considered, the correlations bear out what the correlations bear out. (If it was a perfect ratings system without any flaws or biases or such, then you could predict the first few rounds of the NFL draft using the ESPN 150.)
In an individual case, it’s really hard to say a 5-star is HS recruit will be a guaranteed NFL success. But if you’ve got a team full of 5-star and 4-star players, you’re more likely to have MORE studs than a team without. That’s all this is saying. So if you multiply this over 4-5 years and 85 scholly’s (or more, if you factor in roster-churning), it becomes a fairly reliable predictor of a team’s success.
I don't think that is what he was talking about, though
The way I read it was not considering the success of the team due to overall recruiting, but something like:
Julio Jones is an All-American because he has gotten a ton of publicity since he was in high school even though there are 15 WR in BCS conferences that have better stats. (BTW, my example is not backed up by research and has a good chance of being wildly inaccurate, just a hypothetical off the top of my head).
Like you said, a team full of highly rated recruits is a definite positive and I want it, but I think there may be something to the original question in terms of the individualized PR machine.
Also condider that recruiting rankings might get more accurate in the future.
Evaluations are much more comprehensive now than they were just 10 years ago. There are 4 or 5 well known recruiting services and everybody in the world has a video camera now which gets more film on these players. With more footage, more people watching and following these kids starting at earlier age, the rankings should get more accurate. The amount of 5-star busts and 2-star “diamonds in the rough” should decrease, JMO.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
That is a fair analysis
I think to say it any differently opens up questions about how each player got his rating. For some, traits like experience and coachability enter in but for other its purely based on physical attributes. Some of that is team specific. If Jimbo has a team full of 4 stars, it means a lot more to me than a Bowden team of 4 stars. If I say, I don’t care about stars, I mean on an individual level. I have no doubt Jacob Coker will out perform Xavier Lee. Rivals got that one wrong, along with a lot of others. Their rankings are getting more accurate, and have improved greatly with ol, but they still don’t rank them as high as skill guys. They also are clearly guilty of improving ranks based on the suiter. So which came first, the program or its recruiting class? Seems like a combination to me.
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
And this is the kind of thing that gets "washed" across the broader sample.
Control for that variable, and you expect the same result: that is, a Bowden-coached team of 4 and 5 star players will out-perform a Bowden-coached team of 2 and 3 star players. We’re about to find out what a Fisher coached FSU team will do with 4 and 5 star players, relative to what he has accomplished with 3 and 4 star players, predominantly, to date.
“All things being equal” is the key here.
good point
But Bowden was wildly consistent regardless of recruiting class. Tommy Bowden was consistent too, getting fired after his classes improved and his team didn’t. I’m confused now.
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
This just in per
Jamie Newberg. Jermauria Rasco will announce his decision today at 3 est time at his high school Choices are FSU, LSU, UF, and I forgot the other ones. LOL!! Sorry.
Aw ok. My fault.
Thats what I was trying to figure out on his Twitter feed. He really didnt make it very clear. Thanks for the correction.
FSU is an outlier with an explanation--bad coaching
Boise State and TCU are outliers too – the other way-
and they are not one year wonders – they are consistently beating (the few times they play them) AQ schools – what do we think the explanation is for that?
really really poor scheduling.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
or, good scheduling, based on desired outcomes.
by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Weak
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
So not "good coaching" not "good talent"
but poor scheduling by the AQ schools who lost to them?
what about the bowl victories that are not scheduling related?
Very, very weak scheduling by those schools like Boise & TCU
I put almost no credence to bowl games. Teams have very different motivations in prepping and playing those games.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Even worse, but yes
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
TCU doesn't even have 3 games they have to get up for legitamately.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
FALLACY!!!!
We had as tough a schedule as any team in the country. I defy anyone to come up with scheduling figures that show a team during the same era that makes our dynasty scheduling look weak.
I don't know about comparatively, as I'm sure other conferences were top heavy as well
But the ACC during the 90’s was a complete and total joke.
>>---l>
The ACC had a lot of bad teams, but so did the SEC.
And we played a murderer’s row of OOC teams. Teams like LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, were jokes for much of that era.
Look up some of the historic SOS ratings. I believe our 1993 championship had the #1 schedule. We played 3 top 5(?) teams in UF, UM, and ND that season, all OOC. And I don’t recall the ACC teams off-hand, but I am sure there were a couple ranked squads of the Clemson/GT variety. Saying Boise is following a similar path just doesn’t add up.
I look at those days more of an era of the Titans and the little guys, honestly.
The top 5-10 programs had no problem mowing through their schedules. Nebraska ended up as our annual sacrificial lamb in the bowls due to a completely laughable Big 8 conference.
Think about the SEC… LSU hadn’t risen to relevancy, UGA was in its post-Herschel/pre-Richt 20 year malaise.. Alabama anD Auburn were good on-and-off, maybe correlating with whether or not they were on probation…. but then all of the currently tough SEC teams like Arky, the MS teams I mentioned, etc. were complete garbage. It was pretty much UF, and then Tennessee and one of the Bama teams contending. And I believe those SEC squads were already avoiding all of the tough noncon games (see UF vs. UM as exhibit A).
About Nebraska
We beat them, but I wouldn’t call them our sacrificial lamb. We stomped them once 41-17, beat them 27-14 once, but the other half were very tight: 18-16 (they missed a last second FG, we won our first NC) and 31-28 (they fumbled on the 1, and we drove 99 yards, scoring on 4th and goal from the 15 near the end of the game).
Well, somone usually creamed them, anyway.
I count the 1992 game as lop-sided, as well, since they were never really in contention for that game.
I did a bit of a write up on this a long time ago. Once I get back to my house I'll see if I can do a quick post about our scheduling back in the dynasty years. The early 90's were a lot more difficult than the mid and late.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
I would appreciate seeing that, don't know if I recall it.
Nonetheless, I would guess that you could cherry pick any year you wanted from the 1987-2000 span and it would slate about 30 places higher in SOS terms than any group Boise has EVER faced.
Yeah, the only thing I compared the dynasty years to is Meyer's at his time at UF. It didn't factor and FEI or F/+ rankings; however, it used the ending AP ranking for the opponent. Not perfect, but all I had.
It was back in 2008 I think. “Bowden v Meyer”, but if you look for it, beware, the formatting was horrendous of my part.
Yeah, you could basically take all of Boises regular season difficult games for the last 5 years and it didn’t even come close to the ’93 squad or several others.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
(meyers time at UF except for last year)
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Heres the link. I love how things turned out after reviewing those UF fan's posts.
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/5/12/872955/bowden-vs-meyer-at-the-top-of
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
2006:
Aug. 31, 2006 CS Sacramento (NBC) W 45-0 1-0
Sept. 7, 2006 Oregon State (ESPN) W 42-14 2-0
Sept. 16, 2006 at Wyoming (MTN) W 17-10 3-0
Sept. 23, 2006 Hawaii (NBC) W 41-34 4-0 (1-0)
Sept. 30, 2006 at Utah (Versus) W 36-3 5-0
Oct. 7, 2006 Louisiana Tech (ESPN+) W 55-14 6-0 (2-0)
Oct. 15, 2006 at New Mexico St. (ESPN) W 40-28 7-0 (3-0)
Oct. 21, 2006 at Idaho (NBC) W 42-26 8-0 (4-0)
Nov. 1, 2006 Fresno State (ESPN2) W 45-21 9-0 (5-0)
Nov. 11, 2006 at San Jose St. (NBC) W 23-20 10-0 (6-0)
Nov. 18, 2006 Utah State (NBC) W 49-10 11-0 (7-0)
Nov. 25, 2006 at Nevada (ESPN2) W 38-7 12-0 (8-0)
Jan. 1, 2007 at Oklahoma1 W 43-42 13-0
2007:
Aug. 30, 2007 Weber State W 56-7 1-0
Sept. 8, 2007 at Washington L 24-10 1-1
Sept. 15, 2007 Wyoming W 24-14 2-1
Sept. 27, 2007 Southern Miss. W 38-16 3-1
Oct. 7, 2007 New Mexico St. W 58-0 4-1 (1-0)
Oct. 14, 2007 Nevada W 69-67 5-1 (2-0)
Oct. 20, 2007 at Louisiana Tech W 45-31 6-1 (3-0)
Oct. 26, 2007 at Fresno State W 34-21 7-1 (4-0)
Nov. 3, 2007 San Jose St. W 42-7 8-1 (5-0)
Nov. 10, 2007 at Utah State W 52-0 9-1 (6-0)
Nov. 17, 2007 Idaho W 58-14 10-1 (7-0)
Nov. 23, 2007 at Hawaii L 39-27 10-2 (7-1)
Dec. 23, 2007 at East Carolina L 41-38 10-3
2008:
Aug. 30, 2008 Idaho St. W 49-7 1-0
Sept. 13, 2008 Bowling Green W 20-7 2-0
Sept. 20, 2008 at Oregon W 37-32 3-0Oct. 1, 2008 Louisiana Tech W 38-3 4-0 (1-0)
Oct. 11, 2008 at Southern Miss. W 24-7 5-0
Oct. 17, 2008 Hawaii W 27-7 6-0 (2-0)
Oct. 24, 2008 at San Jose St. W 33-16 7-0 (3-0)
Nov. 1, 2008 at New Mexico St. W 49-0 8-0 (4-0)
Nov. 8, 2008 Utah State W 49-14 9-0 (5-0)
Nov. 15, 2008 at Idaho W 45-10 10-0 (6-0)
Nov. 22, 2008 at Nevada W 41-34 11-0 (7-0)
Nov. 28, 2008 Fresno State W 61-10 12-0 (8-0)
Dec. 23, 2008 at TCU L 17-16 12-1
2009:
Sept. 3, 2009 Oregon W 19-8 1-0
Sept. 12, 2009 Miami-OH W 48-0 2-0
Sept. 18, 2009 at Fresno State W 51-34 3-0 (1-0)
Sept. 26, 2009 at Bowling Green W 49-14 4-0
Oct. 3, 2009 UC Davis W 34-16 5-0
Oct. 14, 2009 at Tulsa W 28-21 6-0
Oct. 24, 2009 at Hawaii W 54-9 7-0 (2-0)
Oct. 31, 2009 San Jose St. W 45-7 8-0 (3-0)
Nov. 6, 2009 at Louisiana Tech W 45-35 9-0 (4-0)
Nov. 14, 2009 Idaho W 63-25 10-0 (5-0)
Nov. 20, 2009 at Utah State W 52-21 11-0 (6-0)
Nov. 27, 2009 Nevada W 44-33 12-0 (7-0)
Dec. 5, 2009 New Mexico St. W 42-7 13-0 (8-0)
Jan. 4, 2010 at TCU W 17-10 14-0
2010:
Sept. 6, 2010 at Virginia Tech W 33-30 1-0
Sept. 18, 2010 at Wyoming W 50-6 2-0
Sept. 25, 2010 Oregon State W 37-24 3-0
Oct. 2, 2010 at New Mexico St. W 59-0 4-0 (1-0)
Oct. 9, 2010 Toledo W 57-14 5-0
Oct. 16, 2010 at San Jose St. W 48-0 6-0 (2-0)
Oct. 26, 2010 Louisiana Tech W 49-20 7-0 (3-0)
Nov. 6, 2010 Hawaii W 42-7 8-0 (4-0)
Nov. 12, 2010 at Idaho W 52-14 9-0 (5-0)
Nov. 19, 2010 Fresno State W 51-0 10-0 (6-0)
Nov. 26, 2010 at Nevada L 34-31 10-1 (6-1)
Dec. 4, 2010 Utah State W 50-14 11-1 (7-1)
Dec. 22, 2010 Utah W 26-3 12-1
5 legit teams in 5 years and one of those was in a bowl game; additionally, the legit teams weren’t even “elite”, as Oregon didn’t have all that difficult a schedule either, Hawii is an oddity (not sure what to think of them that year) and we know VT is a tough team but not elite. Boise is really a Sham Wow team. “Sham” of a schedule, with a “Wow” at the end as they muster up trick plays to beat Oklahoma (who underperforms in BCS games quite often) to validate themselves. Definitely easier than the FSU dyansty years.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Now I know what it feels like to play left field in Fenway.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Spackler.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
seriously, I want to know what you mean but I don't get it. I'm bad at internet conversations.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Green monster?
More importantly what did you do to the font?
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I thought it was just me. Well, all I did differently that I can tell is I tried to put a line between the record and what I wrote by "shift" + "-". Forgot to preview that part.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
I know about fenway, didn't understand what message you were trying to get across.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Just like the green monster, his message was really, really tall.
and can I get an on this sucker or what???
Seriously, fix this already.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
AHHH, thanks arrdub!
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
My post took position at the base of.....
Sorry, thought you got it after the green monster reference.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
s'all good - very witty.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
hope nobody turns it green.
That means I’ve been benched in favor of you.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
It is now a true green monster.
I did not do it, but the outcome was inevitable.
Now, you might be able to string together a really long post in the midst of this italicized nightmare and make your own personal Leaning Tower of TN?
that really doesn't hold up well
When you see them beat a team we couldn’t handle and then watch their players dominate at the senior bowl practices. Don’t forget one of the last few teams to beat Oregon as well.
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
we'll know soon enough though
If tcu and Utah fall on their face the first two years in their new conferences. We’ll have to watch the rankings of their recruits too, and see if the stars inflate or if they are in the mix for more popular guys. I’m betting Utah is .500 in conference and tcu challenges for the Big East title.
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
This
TCU will challenge for the Big East title but they will not go seasons at a time where they lose only 1 conference game. They will forever be the 4th or 5th school that texas recurits look to go to behind U Texas, AM, Oklahoma, and probably TT and even OkSt
Recruits like the idea of an annual BCS stage.
I wouldn’t underestimate the value of being one of only 3 teams that will contend for a BCS spot annually. TCU will have a bigger stage than A&M, TT and OkSt every year.
Rock solid (imo):
Elite recruiting is necessary but not sufficient to have an elite team. That is, it won’t guarantee you an elite team, but if you don’t recruit at an elite level, you will be guaranteed not to have a consistently elite team.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
i guess the imo weakend that, so i retract the imo.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
yeah, you don’t see non-elite recruiting teams being consistently elite
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
And no more obvious than my second, but beloved, Hokies.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Its going to get me left out of the will, family tailgates, etc. Oh well, let the truth be known.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
There is a correlation, but is there causality?
yeah, you don’t see non-elite recruiting teams being consistently elite
If a team is consistently elite they won’t have any trouble recruiting. Do consistently successful teams recruit elite classes or do elite classes lead to consistently successful teams?
Obviously both, to some extent, but it is unclear what plays a larger role. This article established a correlation, not causality. FSU recruited pretty well in the lost decade, perhaps due to the consistent success in the ’90’s, and they didn’t win. This example presents the counter-argument that the correlation exists because big-time recruits flock to successful programs.
It’s a necessary factor, no?
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
I don't see the problem
Teams with moderate talent can contend for a season or two but if they do not bring up their level of talent I can’t think of a single program that has had long term success. The only real program like this is Boise State and lets be real they do this only because of conference and politics. As teams get good they will increase their talent levels which will make them good longer which will help them get better talent.
And sure talent rich programs can waste the talent and not produce but there is almost always because of coaching problems be it coaches that do not have the faith of the boosters and fans, have a mismatch of talent to scheme, or coaches that no longer care but still have such large reps and/or personilities that they can still bring in blue chippers.
When I watch Boise and TCU this year
and Utah when they beat Alabama – I did not see teams that looked out manned or out coached. They looked well coached and just as big and fast as thh AQ team they were playing
lets see them go consistently against Bama, or consistently against legit schedules.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Good coaching and fresher players than the beaten up teams they face. Plus, to a lesser extent, there's probably some dissapointment on the part of the team that was left out of the national title hunt to play a Boise or TCU.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Lack of motivation from the teams. Bama was crushed it didn’t go to the National Championship. They didn’t give a damn about that game and it showed.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
even most of the low-on-the-totem-pole schools that consistently turn in the kind of winning percentages that put the initial assessments their lineup to shame – see Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah and other would-be BCS party crashers over the last five years – pile up those wins over other low-on-the-totem-pole outfits whose recruiting rankings didn’t fare much better. Those five schools have combined for four regular season wins in five years over teams whose overall recruiting numbers (according to Rivals) put them in the top 25 nationally since 2006. The vast majority of upstarts feed on other would-be upstarts.
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah
I think Cincinnati and UConn don’t belong in the conversation -they are clearly pretenders
Boise and TCU are at a different level winning against “good” teams – as with Utah to a lesser extent – Utah could be classified as pretenders and I wouldn’t argue it.
Then that is a failure on the part of the coaching staff
If Saban is so god like he should not have had trouble motivating his team as winning ranked as high as possible, title or not, winning for your conference and adding another bowl victory for your school should be enough motivation.
There is also no way you can statistically back the argument “they did not try” up basically.
Difference in mindset
There are many coaches that treat bowl games as nice end of the year reward for the players or use the bowl game as a second spring practice. No coach cares about winning one for the conference they only care about giving themselves the best chance of holding on to the job long term or moving to a better job.
yea but when they start to need to get up for games every single week
instead of once a year it really takes a toll. If I was playing against garbage all year and one team technically better then me. While the supposed better team takes me lightly possibly then I have a good chance of giving that 1 team I eyed into a run for their money or beat them. If I have to play that better team after week after week of actually needing to get up for every game then that wear and tear on a team really comes into play
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
Georgia Tech's Paul Johnson disagrees.
I’m a Paul Johnson fan, but I suspect he may want to rethink his recruiting philosophies.
Nope. Please keep that philosopy.
I don’t want GT anywhere near the ACCCG. Ever. Again.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
To be fair to Paul Johnson
If you are running a different sort of gimmicky offense, I think you can make a solid case for that. GT is not going to get the kind of quarterbacks that are 5-star kids, or very many 5-star receivers that want to go an get one or two balls a game.
However, that doesn’t excuse GT’s poor recruiting. After all, defensively they want the same atheletes as everyone else.
If they could get the kids they wanted, they’d be much higher than 40th and there’s no way to spin that.
It's simply a niche marketing strategy.
They can go after guys that the big programs are after, so they get the cream of the crop.
Even this wouldn't convince my buddy stars matter.
Hopefully it will have a better impact here:
1st round of the NFL draft 2010:
Unranked (Which I guess would include 1 star): 0
2 star: 5
3 star: 7
4 star: 15
5 star: 5
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
Any chance you could post a breakdown with players' names
Just to entertain my curiosity.
Here goes
Bradford – QB 3*
Sud – DL 4*
McCoy – DL 5*
Williams – OT unknown
Berry – SS 5*
Okung – OT 3*
Haden – CB 4*
McClain – LB 4*
Spiller – RB 5*
Alualu – DL 3*
Davis – OT 4*
Matthews – RB unknown
Graham – DE 5*
Thomas – SS 4*
Pierre-Paul – DE 4*
Morgan – DE 4*
Iupati – OG 3*
Pouncey – C 4*
Weatherspoon – LB 2*
Jackson – CB 4*
Gresham – TE 4*
Thomas – WR 3*
Baluga – OL 4*
Bryant – WR 4*
Tebow – QB 5*
Williams – DT 3*
McCourty – CB 2*
Odrick – DT 4*
Wilson – CB 2*
Best – RB 4*
Hughes – DE 2*
Robinson – CB 4*
by BenDNole on Jan 31, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And those numbers hold up historically too
About half of 5 stars are drafted in the first half of the draft while not even 1 percent of 3 stars are drafted. Than again there is only 15ish 5 stars a year while there are hundreds of 3 stars a year.
That is a good list of who got drafted and got the big money up front
but as the Packer fan previously pointed out, who ends up making the rosters in the long run does not always match, ie the big draft picks do not pan out always, just like big college recruits do not.
1st rounders pan out more than any other round
1st rounders last longer and have more success than 2nd rounders and they more than 3rd etc. Sure there is a bit of teams staying with players drafted higher than lower but it still holds that the higher round a player is drafted the more likely they are to produce. You also remember the first round busts more than the later round busts because well no one really cares about the 5th round CB pick but every fan remembers the big names that failed that where drafted early.
2000 NFL Draft Eternal Catastrophes: Rams draft Matt Bowen ahead of Tom Brady!
I don’t care what you might think about this comment, because somewhere out there, Sam Bowie is laughing his ass off at this.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
It'd also be interesting to know how many draft eligible 5-stars there are.
In any given year it’s probably only around 30.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
What you are missing is the percentages
if there are 10 “5 stars” and five are drafted in the first round – that is 50%
if there are 1000 “2 stars” and 5 are drafted in the first round that is 0.5%
Stars would still matter – you would just need a statisitics class to understand it
The underdog mentality make us all want to say "stars don't matter" or "no, it shouldn't matter what people say about them"
The fact of the matter is though, by late high school, experts are able to tell if these players have the tools to succeed at the next level (and maybe beyond).
Does everything pan out for the 5 star kid? Not necessarily. But they have more room for error than the 3-star kid.
Never understood the rankings are overrated guys
Sure there are legit problems of the rating sites but the simple fact is it is easy to find the top guys in a field like football while its hard to tell the difference between even the very good from the good. Teams that consistenly get the guys that are the best they will play better as a whole than teams that hit on 3 of those 3 stars while missing on 6 others. These are teams that are always reloading talent and have competation for playing time instead of looking for players to plug holes.
2 issues
An elite program gets the first choice in recruits, and will take the 5 stars, or the recruits will get upgraded stars by the end.
I constantly hear guys who want a player, especially at quarterback, to play because the player was higher rated recruit, regardless of the coaches opinion or the guy’s readiness. The response to such idiocy is to say “stars don’t matter”
So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.
Valiant effort.
Look on the bright side, if this infects all the other threads, you’ll be able to “out” any TN posters you run into, because their heads will be slightly tilted to the right.
Haha, but it worked - try refresh
I think each post after the problem one was being thrown into another em tag for some reason, which is why it ended up taking so many end tags (hopefully replies won’t break this fix)
Though for fun I bet someone could throw some malicious tags in their sig line and post over at AA – then we’d be able to spot gators by the tilted heads before we noticed their obnoxiousness
WTF did you do?
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Feb 1, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
test
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jan 31, 2011 5:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Recruiting Rankings vs NFL Draft
I think the “Recruiting Rankings are overrated” mentality comes from the same idea regarding the NFL draft. I think giving out “Grades” right after the draft is stupid (See all the people eating crow over the Alualu pick by Jacksonville). In the draft, in a great year you’ll maybe have 12 picks, and usually between 8-10 in most years. Plus, you’ll usually only have 2-3 picks in the 1st/2nd round. If your 1st and 2nd round picks don’t develop, your team’s draft is a bust unless you hit some home runs in other rounds.
With recruiting, you have such a much higher incoming volume it doesn’t really matter. When you can bring in 25 guys a year. every year, you can absorb a kid not having good grades or just not matching the hype. Their should be plenty of other talent around him that someone should step up.
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 31, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions
That makes sense
and would explain why a team like the Patriot does not always go after some big named first or second round guy, and trade a big early round pick to get multiple later round picks. They might believe in the power of numbers also, knowing with more guys, they have more room for failure. They still do not end up with top ranked guys though, so obviously some of the later round guys work out well for them.
It also helps to have Tom Brady, as that masks alot of deficiencies on offense
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 31, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting Read
Posts like this is why I read this site sometimes even as a BC fan – TN generally has very intelligent/interesting discussions. The one thing I’d say (and this is the defending BC part of me shining through) is that recruiting rankings are at their most useful for a players first two-three years in the program, as they are a good indication of depth for players who haven’t seen the field. When a player is a junior or senior, I think it’s less relevant.
This may seem intuitive but I post it because when BC plays teams like FSU/Miami/Clemson that outrecruit us, they will generally point to our recruiting rankings so as to say BC has no chance against them. I don’t mean to claim BC has the same talent as a school like FSU (we clearly won’t) but merely that some of the teams the consistently overachieve compared to their recruiting rankings (of which BC is one) might just be better at identifying/developing their talent. I say that because someone like Montel Harris as a two-star guy woudl clearly be reevaluated at this point in his career. BC never gets 5-star players but I think it’s clear Luke Kuechly is a 5-star player. I guess this is a longwinded way of saying recruiting rankings are very important when players enter a school but they should not blind people to reevaluating a teams talent after seeing what the players can do.
I agree BC gets more bang for their starbucks
but the 3 teams you mentioned (FSU/CU/UM) have all been very poorly coached for most of the past 10 years. Which is one of the main talking points in this write-up.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
That's fair
I don’t disagree that those coaches left something to be desired but I just wanted to bring up the idea that people tend to stick preconceived notions about players due to their status as a recruit for longer than they should.
BC always has a place in my heart for allowing us the 93 NC
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
Kinda crazy that the kids signing with FSU now and from now on
Probably have no idea how that season went down and exactly what happened for us to win that title. And what an amazing season it was. Yet I was 14 and remember it like yesterday.
Charlie Ward the best Nole ever and the undefeated Noles ranked #1 go to ranked #2 ND. After FSU had already beat Miami who was top 3 at the time we beat them I believe We were favored and in a great game ND beats us as they knock down a Ward pass to end the game and our dreams of a perfect season and title were taken by ND. Then on a miraculous day I believe 2 weeks later the now Heavily favored ND team plays their annual game against BC.
At some point I see that late in the game BC is close. I get nervous. And BC pulls off the shocker with a FG to beat ND putting the Noles back ahead in the polls and on to their first title.
Ahhh started to remissness a bit as I was typing. And maybe a little more in depth history of hoe we came to win the NC that year for the younger Noles who may just know that we won it that year. Dam I feel old
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
You forgot the best part, Charlie hitting Warrick Dunn to take the Swamp from 11 to 0 in a matter of seconds
by Jonathan Loesche on Feb 1, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
I think that happens more in the reverse than what you're saying.
5 star players tend to wind up on a lot of pre-season all-whatever lists even if they haven’t done much of anything to deserve it. A couple of UM guys from the ’08 class come to mind (names escaping me right now). Guys like Keuchly become household names pretty quickly and are no longer thought of as a 2* recruit. But, in the bigger picture, guys like him are rare.
FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
It gets skewed out of higschool cause its mainly pure talent as well at that point
If a kid goes to St.Thomas by me in Ft.lauderdale. They are almost running a D1 program as high schoolers. So a kid with a skill level 7 out of 10 is putting out like a 9 of 10 on the field cause of the amazing coaching they are getting. And he may be a 4 star recruit. Even though he has a 3 star natural skill level
While a kid that has a natural skill level of an 8 that goes to a Public school that doesn’t care much about football. May look like a 6 when hes on the field cause he has had hardly a quarter of the coaching the kid from STA got and is relying purely on talent. So when hes given stars hes a 3* recruit cause of what he has seen.
Once they go to college assuming that both go to well coached colleges then by that 3rd year the kid that was only a 3* in HS may be the better player then the 4^ out of HS cause that natural talent edge comes into play now that the coaching edge has leveled.
I have no idea how it works. But I would think that a kid that is a 5* recruit from PS1038 that has a football program but isnt a football school prob has more talent in just god given tools then the kid that got a 5* playing for St.Thomas Aquinas cause of how well that school is coached.
I occasionally go to check out a STA game to see some of the prospects and they look better then many D2 college kids. Every year they have a 5* it seems and at least 40% of their team gets offers. Last game I went to was to see Joyner play and I was more shocked that their were as many players that were almost as good as him on the team then how good he was. That school just produces amazing kids with their program.
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
BC overachievement
Obviously, talent counts, and the more the better. The national ratings are a useful – not perfect – assessment of talent. BC has success in developing LBs, DL, and OL, beyond what recruiting ratings would suggest. Some of that is coaching. BC also might illustrate a certain inefficiency in the assignment of ratings.
My suspicion (meaning I have been too lazy to analyze data rigorously) is that the accuracy of ratings varies by position and geography. Maybe assessments are more accurate at positions that produce more statistical information that can be compared (catches for receivers, yards for RBs, passes for QBs, interceptions for DBs; sacks/TFLs for Clowney) than at OL, most DL and LBs. Also, in a high talent area like the Southeast, there is more scrutiny, so rating errors are exposed quicker and there are fewer gems overlooked; maybe less so in the Northeast.
This
This is a legit problem with recuriting ratings as NE might as well be the wilderness when it comes to high school football. There is a higher confidence level with recurits from SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 10 states than there is in the other areas. The wilderness areas also are going to generally have less experienced scouts looking at the prep players, less scouts, and the services are less likely to give the highest mark because of competation.
MWN Nole saved the day!
>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by 




























