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Around SBN: The Week In Worst: When Baseball Goes Wrong

Recruiting Rankings Do Matter

Every year we hear pundits proclaim that recruiting rankings do not matter.  And every year Matt Hinton proves them wrong.  Very, very wrong.  I have lamented Hinton's move to his new Yahoo! platform because I find his articles less in-depth than before as he is asked to crank out content more frequently.  But he does this series very, very well.  This year he did a five-part series, and it is the best he has ever done.  I encourage you to read them all, I have profiled them here.

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' All-American track record, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF  - Yahoo! Sports

The ratio always looks identical on a per-capita basis, and it is not a crapshoot. Four and five-star players are roughly seven times as likely as two and three-star players to land on an All-America team, and the numbers in the NFL Draft tend to be even even more lopsided toward the hyped recruits. All the more reason to want as many of them as you can get your hands on.

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' track record at the top of the polls, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF  - Yahoo! Sports

Since 2006, only 25 different schools have finished in the top 10 of the final Associated Press poll at least once; 15 have finished that high at least twice, accounting for 40 of the 50 top-10 slots in that span. And fully half of those slots – 26 of 50 – have been occupied by one of 10 schools: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas and USC.

Those 10 also happen to be among the 13 schools – along with Florida State, Miami and Tennessee (three programs with terrible coaching for much of the last decade) – that have consistently finished at the top of the recruiting rankings.

Those 13 schools alone have consistently produced a majority of the top five in the final polls, half of the top 10, at least half of the teams in the BCS and all of the national champions in the BCS era. (With Auburn's triumph – thanks mainly to über recruit Cam Newton, the five-star headliner of a top five class last year – only two of the top dozen recruiting powers have failed to win a BCS championship: Georgia and Michigan. Last year, Oregon was only the third team form outside of the group to even play for a BCS title, joining Virginia Tech in 1999 and Nebraska in 2001, and we might find the '01 Cornhuskers were a pretty highly regarded bunch themselves if those numbers were available.)

You know this already, but in black and white: In any given season, you can count on at least 50 percent of the nation's elite teams on the field coming from the 10 percent that routinely dominate the recruiting rankings. Every year. If n elite class doesn't guarantee a team vaulting to the top of the polls, it still dramatically increases the odds. Doc then explains that the other teams typically have once-in-a-generation luck and a super easy schedule if they accomplish such a finish.

Star Power: Judging the recruiting rankings, game by game - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF  - Yahoo! Sports

...on the final count, the higher-ranked team (by recruiting stars) won about two-thirds of the time (just a hair over 66 percent, to be exact), and every "class" as a whole had a winning record against every class ranked below it. The gap on the field also widened with the gap in the recruiting scores: At the extremes, "one-star" recruiting teams collectively managed one win over a five-star team (Iowa State over Texas) and one win over a four-star (Vanderbilt over Ole Miss) in 24 tries.

Star Power: The nation's most overachieving teams - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF  - Yahoo! Sports

... even most of the low-on-the-totem-pole schools that consistently turn in the kind of winning percentages that put the initial assessments their lineup to shame – see Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah and other would-be BCS party crashers over the last five years – pile up those wins over other low-on-the-totem-pole outfits whose recruiting rankings didn't fare much better. Those five schools have combined for four regular season wins in five years over teams whose overall recruiting numbers (according to Rivals) put them in the top 25 nationally since 2006. The vast majority of upstarts feed on other would-be upstarts.

3. Virginia Tech. The Hokies haven't fared particularly well against the upper echelon – they were blown out by eventual BCS champ LSU in 2007, and again by eventual BCS champ Alabama in 2009 – but their middle-of-the-pack prowess on the trail hasn't stopped them from dominating the ACC: Tech is 9-3 since '07 against conference peers Florida State, Miami, Clemson and North Carolina, all of which have ostensibly out-recruited the Hokies, with three ACC championships in the same span.

All told, Tech ranks at the fringes of the top 25 in terms of recruiting, but with back-to-back wins over Nebraska and a Chick-Fil-A Bowl rout of Tennessee in 2009, it's won twice as often as its lost over the last four years against teams that brought in more talent according to the gurus.

Then again, Tech is 0-27 all-time against top-ten teams. The records against FSU, Miami, and Clemson are hardly surprising considering how poorly coached those teams have been for the better part of the last decade. The evidence shows the Hokies can beat talented teams that are poorly coached, but cannot beat talented teams who are well coached.

Star Power: The nation's most underachieving teams - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF  - Yahoo! Sports

5b. Florida State. The Seminoles' recent penchant for disappointment may not be as extreme as you think: Florida State is the only team on this list with a winning record each of the last four years (its streak of winning seasons stands at 34, the longest in the nation), and has finished in the top 25 in two of the last three. In relative terms, though, no collection of "underachievers" is complete without the 'Noles, now five years removed from their last ACC championship in a league they once ruled with an iron fist, and more than a decade out from their last foray among the national elite.

FSU has continued to dominate the rest of the Atlantic Division on the recruiting trail, but also has multiple losses against four of its five Atlantic rivals since 2006, with losing records against Boston College, Clemson and perennial recruiting doormat Wake Forest, owner a stunning three-game winning streak over the 'Noles from 2006-08. Last month's Chick-Fil-A Bowl win over South Carolina capped a 10-win campaign in Jimbo Fisher's first season as head coach, which seemed like a significant step forward. That in itself pretty much sums up the lost decade.

Together with last week's group of overachievers, we've now seen almost a dozen teams over the last four years that have consistently defied the scouts' projections in one direction or another … and four times as many that have performed, over time, pretty much exactly as the rankings projected them to perform. The outliers are notable because they're just that: Outliers.

And there you have it.  What can we learn from this?

Elite recruiting is necessary but not sufficient to have an elite team. That is, it won't guarantee you an elite team, but if you don't recruit at an elite level, you will be guaranteed not to have a consistently elite team.

What does this mean for FSU?

If you accept the premise that FSU now has good coaching, then you should expect FSU to begin consistently (not always) beating teams with lesser talent.  The facts say FSU should begin beating ACC teams at a better than 66% clip, as FSU will soon (give it a year) have more talent than all of them.  The facts say FSU should be able to at least split with teams like UF, Miami, Clemson; all teams with similar talent levels.  It also means Virginia Tech could be in trouble if they don't improve their recruiting.

Please do take the time to peruse each of Matt's articles.  It is an excellent series and is worthy of a traffic bump.  You will learn much more than I have excerpted here.

Comment 170 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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the world is flat

Was the mainstream position. Funny these days it is used to dismiss controversial positions.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The world being flat or not was also a controversial position. And “recruiting stars don’t matter” is a mainstream position as well, hence the people trying to debunk the common misconception.

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Jan 31, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

this is exciting

From not only a national perspective, but really from an acc perspective, considering how poorly they have recruited (in comparrison to the ’Noles)

by LetsGoNoles on Jan 31, 2011 1:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

and by they

I mean the entire conference, unfortunately hahah

by LetsGoNoles on Jan 31, 2011 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

All considerations about stars mattering aside,

Then again, Tech is 0-27 all-time against top-ten teams. The records against FSU, Miami, and Clemson are hardly surprising considering how poorly coaches those teams have been for the better part of the last decade. The evidence shows the Hokies can beat talented teams that are poorly coached, but cannot beat talented teams who are well coached.

Ouch.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

I'm a little confused by that "0-27" against top ten.

Is that recruiting class top 10 or actual ranking top 10?

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

acutal ranking

The best is yet to come. Go Noles!

by Garnet&Gold on Jan 31, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

that stat really is shocking for how much VT is thought to be the crown of the ACC in football...

"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."

by SmoothCrimiNole on Jan 31, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

they are consistently a B team

and dont’ beat Miami or FSU consistently when the latter are A teams – but can beat them fine when they are B or C teams.

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

They're a perfect also ran for the FSU Dynasty v2.0.

Meet a quality, but not elite, opponent and smash them in the ACCCG to get that last kick into the title game.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Their 1 win was over UM in '02 or '03.

Which, in hindsight, was an overrated team and the beginning of the end for da U.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

they actually have five wins vs. Top 10 teams ....

just since 2003:

2003 vs. No. 2 Miami
2004 vs. No. 6 WVU
2004 at No. 9 Miami
2006 vs. No. 10 Clemson
2009 vs. No. 9 Miami

I don’t have time to look more into it but wiki says 1-26 vs. top 5 opponents under Beamer, maybe that was the intention.

by CCnole on Jan 31, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, vs. top-5 is what I was thinking of.

Is it possible none of those teams “finished” the season in the top 10 and that’s where the 0-27 came from?

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Miami finished No. 5 in 2003

not sure about others, maybe they beat teams that weren’t top 10 that later finished in top 10, who knows. And I wasn’t talking about your intention, but Bud’s in original post

by CCnole on Jan 31, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

VT fans know this all too well

It would be nice to see how Beamer and co. could do with an “elite” recruiting class, but for whatever reason, he has never pulled one in. One 5-star recruit every 4 years just won’t cut it against the teams with talent and coaching. Most frustrating parts of VT football are recruiting season and the top-10 matchup… It just doesn’t end well.

by Chazz Micheal Michealzz on Jan 31, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

So even if UF has a down recruiting year this year, does this mean

we should be very afraid of the talent the new Gator coaches will have to work with? I heard someone on ESPN last year claim that UF’s class was possibly the best he had seen all time.

by nolestuff on Jan 31, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

They have as much talent as anyone. People are very very excited about the talent FSU is bringing in, but they will be freshman and expectations will be wildly inflated.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I meant the talent from 2009 and 2008

I know the 2010 DL guys will be fine regardless, I’m mostly referencing offensive skill position players for those two years.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jan 31, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

To an extent, but I don’t see many guys who won’t be able to excel in a pro-style system. They kicked the recruiting crap out of FSU for almost a decade.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

While true the classes from 2001 to 2007 don't matter

Agreed they will have more experienced talent, just think the transition period will slow them down.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jan 31, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

the talent UF is biringing in this year is not what we should worry about next

From ESPN
2008 ranked #4
2009 ranked #5
2010 ranked #1

UF had a bad season last year. They still have more talent there than other schools we will play. I hate saying this but they get one bad year its not going to take them out of the pic. Same goes with Miami.

2008 ranked #1
2009 ranked #7
2010 ranked #13

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Feb 1, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Good point

But isn’t there an article somewhere on TN where it talks about how Miami’s 2010 recruiting class was propped up by getting more skill players than necessary (specifically runningbacks) Also, you have to consider that Miami might really be spiraling… they might not struggle this year due to talent, but they will probably struggle due to a new coaching staff. By the time the coaching change isn’t an issue, they’ll be too far behind FSU talent wise.

by BenDNole on Feb 1, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Next year won't be the year they'll have their biggest impact

2012 and 2013 will be when I am most afraid of that class. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be afraid because the Gata recruited well in 2009 and 2008 as well, just saying the majority of the damage done to us next year won’t be the 2010 or 2011 kids.

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jan 31, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

hahaha by that time

our ’10 and ’11 class will be ready to roll

by LetsGoNoles on Jan 31, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

At least that gives us time

to hope by then some of those big recruits doing like many FSU recruits the last decade and not being there for long.

by nolestuff on Jan 31, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

it means rankings for UF's recruiting matter...

only when their class is highly ranked. When they aren’t, they are recruiting for needs only, and their ranking doesn’t matter!

by Dangerous Dave! on Jan 31, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

While I agree with the premise...

…of the argument. I wonder how much the recruiting ratings become self fulfilling prophecies as far as recruits becoming All-Americans. When kids come out of HS hyped, how much more publicity do they get by college analysts. The reason I ask, is because when I look at the roster of my Packers, for instance, I see a lot of guys on offense and defense who were unheralded out of high school.

While big schools are represented (Woodson at Michigan, Clifton and Wells at Tenn, Hawk at OSU), there are more players that either went to big schools rated low (Raji at BC as a 2*, Rodgers having to go JUCO, and Matthews having to walk-on at USC), or small school guys (Jennings at Western Mich, Driver at Alcorn State, Williams at Louisianna Tech, Collins at Bethune Cookman, James Starks at Buffalo).

When All-American teams are voted, it seems to me the name recognition gives the hyped kids out of high school an advantage. Similar stats by less prominent players can be overlooked and until NFL scouts really evaluate guys physically and intellectually at the combine it’s all just a beauty pageant.

Of course I want all the highly rated guys we can get. Just a thought.

by soliman on Jan 31, 2011 2:05 PM EST reply actions  

It is even more pronounced in the NFL draft

Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.

by AMFKNole on Jan 31, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Not an issue

Kids don’t make AA teams based on HS hype or the kind of recruit they were. On the whole, most people don’t follow recruiting and more than a few of the reporters are still skeptical. The buzz from being a 4* or 5* doesn’t trump production on the field.

by osceolafan2.0 on Jan 31, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The reason I ask, is because when I look at the roster of my Packers, for instance, I see a lot of guys on offense and defense who were unheralded out of high school.

But how many players are out there who are not highly rated? It’s a matter of likely outcomes.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

like our o-line the last 2 years

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Feb 1, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

This is your intuition based on anecdote.

They guy’s articles have the numbers actually worked out. Higher rated players definitively ARE more likely to have a lot of success.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't dispute the math...

I just think there tends to be some groupthink or other cognitive bias involved in player ratings. We’ve joked here before about how a 5* guy ends up a 4* after committing to us or a 3* becomes a 5* after committing to UF. I think the bias can carry over into college.

This doesn’t mean I’m not extremely excited about this class or that I think anyone is over or underrated. I was just thinking out loud…

by soliman on Jan 31, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha. I think that kind of thing exists, so, yeah, it's not a perfect system by any means,

but, all things considered, the correlations bear out what the correlations bear out. (If it was a perfect ratings system without any flaws or biases or such, then you could predict the first few rounds of the NFL draft using the ESPN 150.)

In an individual case, it’s really hard to say a 5-star is HS recruit will be a guaranteed NFL success. But if you’ve got a team full of 5-star and 4-star players, you’re more likely to have MORE studs than a team without. That’s all this is saying. So if you multiply this over 4-5 years and 85 scholly’s (or more, if you factor in roster-churning), it becomes a fairly reliable predictor of a team’s success.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that is what he was talking about, though

The way I read it was not considering the success of the team due to overall recruiting, but something like:

Julio Jones is an All-American because he has gotten a ton of publicity since he was in high school even though there are 15 WR in BCS conferences that have better stats. (BTW, my example is not backed up by research and has a good chance of being wildly inaccurate, just a hypothetical off the top of my head).

Like you said, a team full of highly rated recruits is a definite positive and I want it, but I think there may be something to the original question in terms of the individualized PR machine.

by WaimeaNole on Jan 31, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Also condider that recruiting rankings might get more accurate in the future.

Evaluations are much more comprehensive now than they were just 10 years ago. There are 4 or 5 well known recruiting services and everybody in the world has a video camera now which gets more film on these players. With more footage, more people watching and following these kids starting at earlier age, the rankings should get more accurate. The amount of 5-star busts and 2-star “diamonds in the rough” should decrease, JMO.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

That is a fair analysis

I think to say it any differently opens up questions about how each player got his rating. For some, traits like experience and coachability enter in but for other its purely based on physical attributes. Some of that is team specific. If Jimbo has a team full of 4 stars, it means a lot more to me than a Bowden team of 4 stars. If I say, I don’t care about stars, I mean on an individual level. I have no doubt Jacob Coker will out perform Xavier Lee. Rivals got that one wrong, along with a lot of others. Their rankings are getting more accurate, and have improved greatly with ol, but they still don’t rank them as high as skill guys. They also are clearly guilty of improving ranks based on the suiter. So which came first, the program or its recruiting class? Seems like a combination to me.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

And this is the kind of thing that gets "washed" across the broader sample.

Control for that variable, and you expect the same result: that is, a Bowden-coached team of 4 and 5 star players will out-perform a Bowden-coached team of 2 and 3 star players. We’re about to find out what a Fisher coached FSU team will do with 4 and 5 star players, relative to what he has accomplished with 3 and 4 star players, predominantly, to date.

“All things being equal” is the key here.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

good point

But Bowden was wildly consistent regardless of recruiting class. Tommy Bowden was consistent too, getting fired after his classes improved and his team didn’t. I’m confused now.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

This just in per

Jamie Newberg. Jermauria Rasco will announce his decision today at 3 est time at his high school Choices are FSU, LSU, UF, and I forgot the other ones. LOL!! Sorry.

by feardaspear on Jan 31, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Aw ok. My fault.

Thats what I was trying to figure out on his Twitter feed. He really didnt make it very clear. Thanks for the correction.

by feardaspear on Jan 31, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

FSU is an outlier with an explanation--bad coaching

Boise State and TCU are outliers too – the other way-

and they are not one year wonders – they are consistently beating (the few times they play them) AQ schools – what do we think the explanation is for that?

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 2:43 PM EST reply actions  

really really poor scheduling.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Weak

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

don't hate the playa..

(Though I agree Boise should chew dog biscuits.)

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So not "good coaching" not "good talent"

but poor scheduling by the AQ schools who lost to them?

what about the bowl victories that are not scheduling related?

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

Very, very weak scheduling by those schools like Boise & TCU

I put almost no credence to bowl games. Teams have very different motivations in prepping and playing those games.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Even worse, but yes

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

TCU doesn't even have 3 games they have to get up for legitamately.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

FALLACY!!!!

We had as tough a schedule as any team in the country. I defy anyone to come up with scheduling figures that show a team during the same era that makes our dynasty scheduling look weak.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The ACC had a lot of bad teams, but so did the SEC.

And we played a murderer’s row of OOC teams. Teams like LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, were jokes for much of that era.

Look up some of the historic SOS ratings. I believe our 1993 championship had the #1 schedule. We played 3 top 5(?) teams in UF, UM, and ND that season, all OOC. And I don’t recall the ACC teams off-hand, but I am sure there were a couple ranked squads of the Clemson/GT variety. Saying Boise is following a similar path just doesn’t add up.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I'm not going anywhere near the Boise claim

I’m just saying the conference was weak.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 31, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I look at those days more of an era of the Titans and the little guys, honestly.

The top 5-10 programs had no problem mowing through their schedules. Nebraska ended up as our annual sacrificial lamb in the bowls due to a completely laughable Big 8 conference.

Think about the SEC… LSU hadn’t risen to relevancy, UGA was in its post-Herschel/pre-Richt 20 year malaise.. Alabama anD Auburn were good on-and-off, maybe correlating with whether or not they were on probation…. but then all of the currently tough SEC teams like Arky, the MS teams I mentioned, etc. were complete garbage. It was pretty much UF, and then Tennessee and one of the Bama teams contending. And I believe those SEC squads were already avoiding all of the tough noncon games (see UF vs. UM as exhibit A).

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

About Nebraska

We beat them, but I wouldn’t call them our sacrificial lamb. We stomped them once 41-17, beat them 27-14 once, but the other half were very tight: 18-16 (they missed a last second FG, we won our first NC) and 31-28 (they fumbled on the 1, and we drove 99 yards, scoring on 4th and goal from the 15 near the end of the game).

by Invictus13 on Jan 31, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, somone usually creamed them, anyway.

I count the 1992 game as lop-sided, as well, since they were never really in contention for that game.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I would appreciate seeing that, don't know if I recall it.

Nonetheless, I would guess that you could cherry pick any year you wanted from the 1987-2000 span and it would slate about 30 places higher in SOS terms than any group Boise has EVER faced.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the only thing I compared the dynasty years to is Meyer's at his time at UF. It didn't factor and FEI or F/+ rankings; however, it used the ending AP ranking for the opponent. Not perfect, but all I had.

It was back in 2008 I think. “Bowden v Meyer”, but if you look for it, beware, the formatting was horrendous of my part.

Yeah, you could basically take all of Boises regular season difficult games for the last 5 years and it didn’t even come close to the ’93 squad or several others.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

(meyers time at UF except for last year)

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Carl is that you?

Yaz or Crawford – your choice..

by CelticPride on Jan 31, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Spackler.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

seriously, I want to know what you mean but I don't get it. I'm bad at internet conversations.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Green monster?

More importantly what did you do to the font?

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I know about fenway, didn't understand what message you were trying to get across.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess not.

I tried to do a “slash i” html tag to kill the italics, but failed.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously, fix this already.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

AHHH, thanks arrdub!

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

My post took position at the base of.....

Sorry, thought you got it after the green monster reference.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

s'all good - very witty.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

hope nobody turns it green.

That means I’ve been benched in favor of you.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It is now a true green monster.

I did not do it, but the outcome was inevitable.

Now, you might be able to string together a really long post in the midst of this italicized nightmare and make your own personal Leaning Tower of TN?

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

that really doesn't hold up well

When you see them beat a team we couldn’t handle and then watch their players dominate at the senior bowl practices. Don’t forget one of the last few teams to beat Oregon as well.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

we'll know soon enough though

If tcu and Utah fall on their face the first two years in their new conferences. We’ll have to watch the rankings of their recruits too, and see if the stars inflate or if they are in the mix for more popular guys. I’m betting Utah is .500 in conference and tcu challenges for the Big East title.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

This

TCU will challenge for the Big East title but they will not go seasons at a time where they lose only 1 conference game. They will forever be the 4th or 5th school that texas recurits look to go to behind U Texas, AM, Oklahoma, and probably TT and even OkSt

by TheJim on Feb 1, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Recruits like the idea of an annual BCS stage.

I wouldn’t underestimate the value of being one of only 3 teams that will contend for a BCS spot annually. TCU will have a bigger stage than A&M, TT and OkSt every year.

by SDnole on Feb 2, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Rock solid (imo):
Elite recruiting is necessary but not sufficient to have an elite team. That is, it won’t guarantee you an elite team, but if you don’t recruit at an elite level, you will be guaranteed not to have a consistently elite team.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

i guess the imo weakend that, so i retract the imo.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, you don’t see non-elite recruiting teams being consistently elite

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

And no more obvious than my second, but beloved, Hokies.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Its going to get me left out of the will, family tailgates, etc. Oh well, let the truth be known.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

There is a correlation, but is there causality?
yeah, you don’t see non-elite recruiting teams being consistently elite

If a team is consistently elite they won’t have any trouble recruiting. Do consistently successful teams recruit elite classes or do elite classes lead to consistently successful teams?

Obviously both, to some extent, but it is unclear what plays a larger role. This article established a correlation, not causality. FSU recruited pretty well in the lost decade, perhaps due to the consistent success in the ’90’s, and they didn’t win. This example presents the counter-argument that the correlation exists because big-time recruits flock to successful programs.

by SDnole on Feb 1, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s a necessary factor, no?

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Feb 1, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see the problem

Teams with moderate talent can contend for a season or two but if they do not bring up their level of talent I can’t think of a single program that has had long term success. The only real program like this is Boise State and lets be real they do this only because of conference and politics. As teams get good they will increase their talent levels which will make them good longer which will help them get better talent.

And sure talent rich programs can waste the talent and not produce but there is almost always because of coaching problems be it coaches that do not have the faith of the boosters and fans, have a mismatch of talent to scheme, or coaches that no longer care but still have such large reps and/or personilities that they can still bring in blue chippers.

by TheJim on Feb 1, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

When I watch Boise and TCU this year

and Utah when they beat Alabama – I did not see teams that looked out manned or out coached. They looked well coached and just as big and fast as thh AQ team they were playing

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

lets see them go consistently against Bama, or consistently against legit schedules.

"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot

by FSUvaFan on Jan 31, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Lack of motivation from the teams. Bama was crushed it didn’t go to the National Championship. They didn’t give a damn about that game and it showed.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

even most of the low-on-the-totem-pole schools that consistently turn in the kind of winning percentages that put the initial assessments their lineup to shame – see Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah and other would-be BCS party crashers over the last five years – pile up those wins over other low-on-the-totem-pole outfits whose recruiting rankings didn’t fare much better. Those five schools have combined for four regular season wins in five years over teams whose overall recruiting numbers (according to Rivals) put them in the top 25 nationally since 2006. The vast majority of upstarts feed on other would-be upstarts.

'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'11: Conference Champions?

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jan 31, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, TCU, Utah

I think Cincinnati and UConn don’t belong in the conversation -they are clearly pretenders
  Boise and TCU are at a different level winning against “good” teams – as with Utah to a lesser extent – Utah could be classified as pretenders and I wouldn’t argue it.

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Then that is a failure on the part of the coaching staff

If Saban is so god like he should not have had trouble motivating his team as winning ranked as high as possible, title or not, winning for your conference and adding another bowl victory for your school should be enough motivation.

There is also no way you can statistically back the argument “they did not try” up basically.

by nolestuff on Jan 31, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Difference in mindset

There are many coaches that treat bowl games as nice end of the year reward for the players or use the bowl game as a second spring practice. No coach cares about winning one for the conference they only care about giving themselves the best chance of holding on to the job long term or moving to a better job.

by TheJim on Jan 31, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

yea but when they start to need to get up for games every single week

instead of once a year it really takes a toll. If I was playing against garbage all year and one team technically better then me. While the supposed better team takes me lightly possibly then I have a good chance of giving that 1 team I eyed into a run for their money or beat them. If I have to play that better team after week after week of actually needing to get up for every game then that wear and tear on a team really comes into play

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 31, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair to Paul Johnson

If you are running a different sort of gimmicky offense, I think you can make a solid case for that. GT is not going to get the kind of quarterbacks that are 5-star kids, or very many 5-star receivers that want to go an get one or two balls a game.

However, that doesn’t excuse GT’s poor recruiting. After all, defensively they want the same atheletes as everyone else.

If they could get the kids they wanted, they’d be much higher than 40th and there’s no way to spin that.

by LouC on Jan 31, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It's simply a niche marketing strategy.

They can go after guys that the big programs are after, so they get the cream of the crop.

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Even this wouldn't convince my buddy stars matter.

Hopefully it will have a better impact here:

1st round of the NFL draft 2010:

Unranked (Which I guess would include 1 star): 0
2 star: 5
3 star: 7
4 star: 15
5 star: 5

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.

by onebarrelrum on Jan 31, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

So out of the 32

62.5% of the picks came from the 15% of 4 and 5 star players

by paperjames on Jan 31, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

These are Rivals rankings

I think the two stars means they were not evaluated

by BenDNole on Jan 31, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

And those numbers hold up historically too

About half of 5 stars are drafted in the first half of the draft while not even 1 percent of 3 stars are drafted. Than again there is only 15ish 5 stars a year while there are hundreds of 3 stars a year.

by TheJim on Jan 31, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

That is a good list of who got drafted and got the big money up front

but as the Packer fan previously pointed out, who ends up making the rosters in the long run does not always match, ie the big draft picks do not pan out always, just like big college recruits do not.

by nolestuff on Jan 31, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

1st rounders pan out more than any other round

1st rounders last longer and have more success than 2nd rounders and they more than 3rd etc. Sure there is a bit of teams staying with players drafted higher than lower but it still holds that the higher round a player is drafted the more likely they are to produce. You also remember the first round busts more than the later round busts because well no one really cares about the 5th round CB pick but every fan remembers the big names that failed that where drafted early.

by TheJim on Jan 31, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

2000 NFL Draft Eternal Catastrophes: Rams draft Matt Bowen ahead of Tom Brady!

I don’t care what you might think about this comment, because somewhere out there, Sam Bowie is laughing his ass off at this.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Jan 31, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

It'd also be interesting to know how many draft eligible 5-stars there are.

In any given year it’s probably only around 30.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

What you are missing is the percentages

if there are 10 “5 stars” and five are drafted in the first round – that is 50%

if there are 1000 “2 stars” and 5 are drafted in the first round that is 0.5%

Stars would still matter – you would just need a statisitics class to understand it

by 93noleman on Jan 31, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The underdog mentality make us all want to say "stars don't matter" or "no, it shouldn't matter what people say about them"

The fact of the matter is though, by late high school, experts are able to tell if these players have the tools to succeed at the next level (and maybe beyond).

Does everything pan out for the 5 star kid? Not necessarily. But they have more room for error than the 3-star kid.

by FSUjab on Jan 31, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions  

Never understood the rankings are overrated guys

Sure there are legit problems of the rating sites but the simple fact is it is easy to find the top guys in a field like football while its hard to tell the difference between even the very good from the good. Teams that consistenly get the guys that are the best they will play better as a whole than teams that hit on 3 of those 3 stars while missing on 6 others. These are teams that are always reloading talent and have competation for playing time instead of looking for players to plug holes.

by TheJim on Jan 31, 2011 4:20 PM EST reply actions  

2 issues

An elite program gets the first choice in recruits, and will take the 5 stars, or the recruits will get upgraded stars by the end.
I constantly hear guys who want a player, especially at quarterback, to play because the player was higher rated recruit, regardless of the coaches opinion or the guy’s readiness. The response to such idiocy is to say “stars don’t matter”

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Jan 31, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

can someone end the italics

by arrdub on Jan 31, 2011 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Valiant effort.

Look on the bright side, if this infects all the other threads, you’ll be able to “out” any TN posters you run into, because their heads will be slightly tilted to the right.

by arrdub on Feb 1, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha, but it worked - try refresh

I think each post after the problem one was being thrown into another em tag for some reason, which is why it ended up taking so many end tags (hopefully replies won’t break this fix)

Though for fun I bet someone could throw some malicious tags in their sig line and post over at AA – then we’d be able to spot gators by the tilted heads before we noticed their obnoxiousness

by MWM Nole on Feb 1, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

WTF did you do?

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Feb 1, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

magic

(aka: I posted a ton of close em tags in the body)

by MWM Nole on Feb 1, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

but then

what would they speak in Italy?

by StM on Jan 31, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.

by FrankDNole on Jan 31, 2011 5:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Recruiting Rankings vs NFL Draft

I think the “Recruiting Rankings are overrated” mentality comes from the same idea regarding the NFL draft. I think giving out “Grades” right after the draft is stupid (See all the people eating crow over the Alualu pick by Jacksonville). In the draft, in a great year you’ll maybe have 12 picks, and usually between 8-10 in most years. Plus, you’ll usually only have 2-3 picks in the 1st/2nd round. If your 1st and 2nd round picks don’t develop, your team’s draft is a bust unless you hit some home runs in other rounds.

With recruiting, you have such a much higher incoming volume it doesn’t really matter. When you can bring in 25 guys a year. every year, you can absorb a kid not having good grades or just not matching the hype. Their should be plenty of other talent around him that someone should step up.

by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 31, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

True

But when you hit it big time in the draft, you get to keep the player for longer than 4 years, so at least it evens out a little bit.

by BenDNole on Jan 31, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense

and would explain why a team like the Patriot does not always go after some big named first or second round guy, and trade a big early round pick to get multiple later round picks. They might believe in the power of numbers also, knowing with more guys, they have more room for failure. They still do not end up with top ranked guys though, so obviously some of the later round guys work out well for them.

by nolestuff on Jan 31, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It also helps to have Tom Brady, as that masks alot of deficiencies on offense

by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 31, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting Read

Posts like this is why I read this site sometimes even as a BC fan – TN generally has very intelligent/interesting discussions. The one thing I’d say (and this is the defending BC part of me shining through) is that recruiting rankings are at their most useful for a players first two-three years in the program, as they are a good indication of depth for players who haven’t seen the field. When a player is a junior or senior, I think it’s less relevant.

This may seem intuitive but I post it because when BC plays teams like FSU/Miami/Clemson that outrecruit us, they will generally point to our recruiting rankings so as to say BC has no chance against them. I don’t mean to claim BC has the same talent as a school like FSU (we clearly won’t) but merely that some of the teams the consistently overachieve compared to their recruiting rankings (of which BC is one) might just be better at identifying/developing their talent. I say that because someone like Montel Harris as a two-star guy woudl clearly be reevaluated at this point in his career. BC never gets 5-star players but I think it’s clear Luke Kuechly is a 5-star player. I guess this is a longwinded way of saying recruiting rankings are very important when players enter a school but they should not blind people to reevaluating a teams talent after seeing what the players can do.

by 31southst on Jan 31, 2011 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

I agree BC gets more bang for their starbucks

but the 3 teams you mentioned (FSU/CU/UM) have all been very poorly coached for most of the past 10 years. Which is one of the main talking points in this write-up.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That's fair

I don’t disagree that those coaches left something to be desired but I just wanted to bring up the idea that people tend to stick preconceived notions about players due to their status as a recruit for longer than they should.

by 31southst on Jan 31, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

BC always has a place in my heart for allowing us the 93 NC

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 31, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Kinda crazy that the kids signing with FSU now and from now on

Probably have no idea how that season went down and exactly what happened for us to win that title. And what an amazing season it was. Yet I was 14 and remember it like yesterday.

Charlie Ward the best Nole ever and the undefeated Noles ranked #1 go to ranked #2 ND. After FSU had already beat Miami who was top 3 at the time we beat them I believe We were favored and in a great game ND beats us as they knock down a Ward pass to end the game and our dreams of a perfect season and title were taken by ND. Then on a miraculous day I believe 2 weeks later the now Heavily favored ND team plays their annual game against BC.

At some point I see that late in the game BC is close. I get nervous. And BC pulls off the shocker with a FG to beat ND putting the Noles back ahead in the polls and on to their first title.

Ahhh started to remissness a bit as I was typing. And maybe a little more in depth history of hoe we came to win the NC that year for the younger Noles who may just know that we won it that year. Dam I feel old

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 31, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot the best part, Charlie hitting Warrick Dunn to take the Swamp from 11 to 0 in a matter of seconds

by Jonathan Loesche on Feb 1, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that happens more in the reverse than what you're saying.

5 star players tend to wind up on a lot of pre-season all-whatever lists even if they haven’t done much of anything to deserve it. A couple of UM guys from the ’08 class come to mind (names escaping me right now). Guys like Keuchly become household names pretty quickly and are no longer thought of as a 2* recruit. But, in the bigger picture, guys like him are rare.

FSU, the 2010 Florida and South Carolina state champs.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 31, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It gets skewed out of higschool cause its mainly pure talent as well at that point

If a kid goes to St.Thomas by me in Ft.lauderdale. They are almost running a D1 program as high schoolers. So a kid with a skill level 7 out of 10 is putting out like a 9 of 10 on the field cause of the amazing coaching they are getting. And he may be a 4 star recruit. Even though he has a 3 star natural skill level

While a kid that has a natural skill level of an 8 that goes to a Public school that doesn’t care much about football. May look like a 6 when hes on the field cause he has had hardly a quarter of the coaching the kid from STA got and is relying purely on talent. So when hes given stars hes a 3* recruit cause of what he has seen.

Once they go to college assuming that both go to well coached colleges then by that 3rd year the kid that was only a 3* in HS may be the better player then the 4^ out of HS cause that natural talent edge comes into play now that the coaching edge has leveled.

I have no idea how it works. But I would think that a kid that is a 5* recruit from PS1038 that has a football program but isnt a football school prob has more talent in just god given tools then the kid that got a 5* playing for St.Thomas Aquinas cause of how well that school is coached.

I occasionally go to check out a STA game to see some of the prospects and they look better then many D2 college kids. Every year they have a 5* it seems and at least 40% of their team gets offers. Last game I went to was to see Joyner play and I was more shocked that their were as many players that were almost as good as him on the team then how good he was. That school just produces amazing kids with their program.

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Jan 31, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

BC overachievement

Obviously, talent counts, and the more the better. The national ratings are a useful – not perfect – assessment of talent. BC has success in developing LBs, DL, and OL, beyond what recruiting ratings would suggest. Some of that is coaching. BC also might illustrate a certain inefficiency in the assignment of ratings.

My suspicion (meaning I have been too lazy to analyze data rigorously) is that the accuracy of ratings varies by position and geography. Maybe assessments are more accurate at positions that produce more statistical information that can be compared (catches for receivers, yards for RBs, passes for QBs, interceptions for DBs; sacks/TFLs for Clowney) than at OL, most DL and LBs. Also, in a high talent area like the Southeast, there is more scrutiny, so rating errors are exposed quicker and there are fewer gems overlooked; maybe less so in the Northeast.

by madridbend on Feb 1, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

This

This is a legit problem with recuriting ratings as NE might as well be the wilderness when it comes to high school football. There is a higher confidence level with recurits from SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 10 states than there is in the other areas. The wilderness areas also are going to generally have less experienced scouts looking at the prep players, less scouts, and the services are less likely to give the highest mark because of competation.

by TheJim on Feb 1, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we get any more italics in here?

Who or what are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Jan 31, 2011 11:29 PM EST reply actions  

MWN Nole saved the day!

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Feb 1, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Always!!

RUSSO

(I see what I did there)

http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
#TellJokesGetMoney

by DRusso97 on Feb 1, 2011 5:21 AM EST up reply actions  

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