Quarterbacks and does EJ have "it"?

by law74 on Oct 29, 2011 9:24 AM EDT

I've often heard that there are numerous factors to consider when evaluating a quarterback. Most people will tell you there are from 3 to 6 characteristics to consider. I have added a seventh (strength/durability) to the "conventional wisdom 6". My list in order of importance would be:

1. mental (learning the playbook, pre-snap decisions, post-snap decisions, quick thinking under pressure)

2. leadership (instilling confidence in team mates, making the other players better)

3. accuracy (long and short throws, touch, hitting the correct postion on the receiver)

4. mobility (movement within the pocket and ability to run or buy time)

5. arm strength (distance and velocity)

6. release (position and quickness)

7. size/durability (height, weight and ever ready bunny clone)

Tim Tebow would score well on #1, #2, #4 and #7. He'd not fare so well on the others.

C. Ponder would score well on #1, #2, #3 and #4. He'd be ok on the others.

Where does EJ rank? It's still a little early in his starting career (although he's had the equivalent of about a regular season of starting games) but IMHO, he'd score well on #2, #4, #5, and #7. I think he'd suffer on #1 (pre- snap reading defenses,etc., and post-snap taking what's given, progressions, and throwing the ball away as opposed to taking the sack) on #3, at least on the shorter routes, and #6 (he doesn't seem to have the D Marino ability to get rid of the ball in a 1/4 second motion...but who does?).

What are your thoughts?

Who's the best you've seen at this position (NFL studs like Brees, Brady and Rogers don't count)?

How does J Winston (or our other qb's on the roster or, hopefully, soon to be on the roster) score on this rating system?

What would you add to the criteria?

What would you change in the order (the first three are almost interchangeable, but I assumed anyone playing the position would be reasonably good at throwing the ball and went from there)?

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Comments

I'm not sure if I'd add a #8

but maybe “being predictable” would fall under #1.
EJ seems to favor the sidelines and the long ball and disdains the center of the field.
If this is so, then he becomes more predictable. This is just an impression and I could be dead wrong. Maybe one of the film review guys could comment on this?

by law74 on Oct 29, 2011 9:43 AM EDT reply actions

I like this...

something that accounts for the ability to look off defensive backs. although it might still get classified under #1. EJ could definitely work on this aspect of his game as he has a tendency to lock onto receivers.

by iNole on Oct 30, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Excellent point

I’m not positive where this would go in my 7 point criteria but if we had to fit it in, then #1 would be the place. I’ve always considered the ability to look off receivers as a product of experience and a total grasp of the playbook. Knowing where all of your recievers are, without actaully looking at them, requires an almost instinctive ability to become Jedi-like.
Also requires some faith in the receivers running correct routes.

by law74 on Oct 30, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Would Tebow really be good at #1

Isn’t that why he had been the number 3 guy? Might be wrong but that’s what I thought the deal was there. And whatever that was that he learned at UF, apparently he had to unlearn when he got to the NFL.

"I spent 90 percent of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted!"

by JaviLouis on Oct 29, 2011 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

Good question

I debated what I was going to put for him at #1. I’ve often thought that most of his problems were with his mechanics. Seems to pick the right guy but then throws some kind of wounded duck pass. Sometimes he looks like a guy that is left handed and is trying to throw with his right. Seemed like his pre-snap decisions were pretty solid and he made quick decisions.
Probably just haven’t observed him enough to really make an informed judgement.

by law74 on Oct 29, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Energizer bunny

by samnite on Oct 29, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions

you're not really discussing "It" IMO.

I think “it” refers to some intangible quality the QB possesses. For example, the “that guy’s just a winner” type comments after Tebow’s ridiculously bad performance last Sunday.

by jasonole59 on Oct 30, 2011 9:05 AM EDT reply actions

If you can't measure "it", then "it" doesn't exist.*

See TN’s stance on “clutch”.

I put the "FUNK" in Functional Alcoholic.

by Nole Resurrected on Oct 31, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

He has it

he just misplaces it sometimes, or leaves it on he dresser at home. Leaves it on the practice field and forgets to bring it to the game. Left it in his car, left it on the bus. Its there sometimes, sometimes it’s not….

by Ocalanole on Oct 30, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions

I think "it"

is a combination of the factors. If I had to highlight which ones are more important in describing someone as having “it”, I would focus on #1 and #2.
When we hear all the physical attributes of a player..his 40 time, his shuttle time, his arm strength, his accuracy tests (C Ponder had the highest of any draft eligible qb last year), his bench press numbers, his size, etc., we have a tendancy to dwell on these things because they are quantifiable.
Mental and leadership are the intangibles. Mental isn’t just some IQ test or the “Wonderlic” but they are helpful. The truly great qbs’ have the mental qualities of making correct decisions under great stress and in a limited amount of time. The true leaders are the ones that have “heart” and can instill in those around him the strong desire to “step” up their game. In my mind, you combine these two factors and you are talking about “it”.

by law74 on Oct 30, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions

IIRC, EJ can only truly have "it" after someone catches him and tags him

Then he’ll stay “it” until he tags someone else.

#ReclaimingLostYouth

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Nov 1, 2011 2:44 AM EDT reply actions

IIRC

that would mean he didn’t have “it”…he was “it”.
For that brief moment, that would mean someone like his girlfried or mother would have “it”. Sooner of later, we’re going to figure this thing out.

by law74 on Nov 1, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions

Tim Tebow would score well on #1?

pre-snap decisions, post-snap decisions?

Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."

by FSU on Nov 1, 2011 3:20 PM EDT reply actions

My impression is based on his UF days

He seemed to have a good grasp of the offense and made good decisions.
This was based on the few games I saw him (FSU and a couple of bowls). Just didn’t watch the Gators that much. All I really remember was waiting for him to graduate. My impression was he had serious flaws in his mechanics and I never saw him as a top flight NFL qb. Still don’t.

by law74 on Nov 1, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

That offense is tailor made for a retarded QB.

He seemed to have a good grasp of the offense and made good decisions.

He only had to make ONE read. Cam Newton admitted that he never had to read a defense and call an audible at Auburn.

Got bit
Fever hit
World's gone to shit
Might as well quit

by Nole Resurrected on Nov 3, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Adding to that

only one post-snap read and ZERO pre-snap. OC does that for the QB.

Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.

by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 3, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Then I think we can strike #1 for Mr. Tebow

That makes him a large guy with leadership skills.

by law74 on Nov 3, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

That increases my respect for Cam

He’s doing very well in the NFL and somehow picked up the mental aspects very quickly.

by law74 on Nov 3, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Good points but you have got it all wrong with the players attributes. Tebow def isnt #1 Ponder is pretty much all of them as well as Manuel

by FSU Seminoles on Nov 2, 2011 11:35 AM EDT reply actions

Tebow def isnt #1

Why?

by law74 on Nov 2, 2011 1:28 PM EDT reply actions

Im not convinced at post snap decisions at all…

Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."

by FSU on Nov 2, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks FSU

I’m not an experienced observer of Tebow but can you elaborate? Not having really observed him that much, I’m just curious what he fails to do in this respect. Is it his receiver progressions? Or is it holding on to the ball and taking a sack? Too quick on taking off on a run and not keeping his pass options open?
All I know is he seemed to kick our ass with alarming regularity.

by law74 on Nov 2, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions

Hubby & I discuss QBs a lot...

Main thing for me is Post snap – Holding the ball too long when they aren’t in the 2 min.

But he has to/tends to hold it because there are throws he can’t make that take to long to get there (because of the motion).
Which in turns causes him to have to the ball longer and the Broncos can’t block for him long enough (they’re not great & speed of defenders) and forces him to have to just take off to try to make something happen or make ill-advised throws.

If I’m a WR for the Broncos I would be frustrated. There are throws I just don’t think he can make consistently sitting in the pocket. Tebow not a pro style QB + Broncos aren’t very good + NFL Defenses = Not good results. Especially as teams begin to tendency him and prepare for him as a starter.

He’s most effective in a spread 2 min in the NFL IMO, but you can’t do that for 4 quarters in the NFL for 16 games. Either that or you have to be extremely TE based & run heavy handing off and using play action a ton.

He beat us because he’s a talented athlete who was surrounded by better weapons.

Pre-snap is always debatable because you don’t always know what the OC is asking a QB to do. How much he’s checking, etc. Post snap you can see the routes develop and if you watch a team for 3 games or so you can see combinations in routes so you get feel for it.

We talk a lot of football in our household. Hubby’s taught me a lot about QBs and DBs. I get to turn the tables in a few weeks. I’m much smarter in hoops (though we debate about that too).

Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."

by FSU on Nov 2, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions

damnit you are awesome.

"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum

by Miaminole on Nov 6, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions

Additional Tebow comment:

I would definitely reiterate FSU’s comment about Tebow being a " talented athlete who was surrounded by better weapons." Just look at his last season. Losing Percy Harvin and co. dramatically reduced Tebow’s production. Again, I don’t want to take too much away from TT. An extremely effective QB is an extremely effective QB (translated: I would not have minded him playing for us had we not had Ponder); BUT he was definitely a system-based player whose outrageous production was heavily dependent on the remarkable skill players he had around him. That last year Heismann invite was laughable given his stats at the time.

by EngineerNole on Nov 4, 2011 4:22 PM EDT reply actions