Grading the 'Noles: FSU 34 - N.C. State 0
by Bud Elliott on Oct 30, 2011 1:12 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintMany of you really enjoyed this column last week, so it will become a regular feature. We take the goals from the game preview and evaluate how FSU fared. This week we take a look at FSU's dominance over the N.C. State Wolfpack.
I hope this will help people keep perspective on the 'Noles.
The defense was tremendous, so we'll start there.
N.C. State was beginning to turn the corner as an offense. Instead, FSU knocked the 'Pack off the road. FSU got the shutout, but even the "0" doesn't do this performance justice.
-Limit N.C. State to less than 5.25 yards/play before garbage time
2.88? Are you kidding me? That is 57% better than the next-closest defensive performance against this offense.
-Allow no more than four plays of 25+ yards
Less than four? Try ZERO. Not only did FSU not allow any plays over 25 yards, FSU allowed none over 20. This, to an offense that loves to go downfield. The coverage was excellent and the defensive line provided constant pressure.
-Hold N.C. State to no more than 50% TDs in the red zone
Incomplete (but not through any fault of the defense). N.C. State never entered the red zone.
-Force two turnovers
| Pre-Garbage Time | ||
| NCSU | FSU | |
| Score | 0 | 24 |
| Plays | 56 | 62 |
| Yards/Play | 2.88 | 5.77 |
| Field Position | Own 21 | Own 38 |
FSU forced three turnovers. And while one wasn't exactly "forced," we know that fumble recoveries are a random endeavor. Goal still met.
This was FSU's best defensive performance in a long, long time. When will people appreciate this defense for the elite unit that it is? Probably never, because idiots [editor's note: some took offense to my use of the word "idiot."] the misinformed still want to blame the defense for the Wake loss when in fact the offense was the culprit with five turnovers, a safety, and a shanked punt.
Let's talk offense
It was a disappointing effort.
Jimbo Fisher cost his team at least ten points by choosing to not take the safe play (going on 4th and short from midfield). Three times FSU had a great opportunity to keep the drive alive and keep the football. Three times Jimbo quit on the drive. This is potentially very concerning because it could mean that Fisher doesn't understand the value of field position. It's something we'll need to monitor.
FSU should have scored a lot more, given the great field position produced by the defense and the special teams.
Anyway, to the goals.
-At least 6.3 yards/play before garbage time
5.77 won't get it done. Not at home against N.C. State. I thought I was pretty conservative with this goal, and the offense still missed it.
Don't let the full-game numbers fool you. The late-game bomb drive looks great, but it was in garbage time and N.C. State was not at all expecting FSU to throw.
-66%+ touchdowns in the red-zone
Perfect. Three trips and three scores.
-No more than 1 turnover
1, which was solely as a result of Rodney Smith not being tough.
-No more than 1 operational penalty (false start, lining up wrong, illegal motion)
FSU had two false starts (Jacob Fahrenkrug and Bobby Hart).
As for the special teams, FSU had a great return, but probably should have had a turnover. I'll review that again in film review, which this week will run Tuesday.
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It’s playing with four first-time starters and playing pretty well. Not great, but given all the shuffling, missing starters, etc. Pretty good.
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Hate to jump ahead, but how do you see this unit...
for next year. Will it allow this program to jump to the next level (BCS Bowl, winning ACC titles)?
I definitely expect an ACC title with this talent.
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Talent
Bud with this talent isn’t it realistic to be winning an ACC championship every third year at minimum and at least winning the division and making the Championship game every other year? That’s at least what I expect with this talent
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
We're going to start losing assistants soon
and we’re going to replace them with great talented people, but there’s risk for continuity problems along the way
'This' talent referring to OL?
I see the talent at other units on the team, but FSU seems to lack overall depth and talent on the OL IMHO.
It's close
the TE’s are pretty bad. Speaking of which, O’leary looks pretty slow and small out there.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Bud, what play would you have called on the 4th and shorts from mid-field?
in other words, what would have given us the best chance of success in those situations?
Championship!
Run, pass, whatever. The odds are strongly in your favor.
I had no problems with the actual plays called, just the quitting on the drives.
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Given how dominant the defense was, and how mediocre the O-line has
been, I think Jimbo made the right call in those situations.
Couldn’t be more wrong. Plenty do.
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I think JF understands 4th and short with regard to field position.
Last year we definitely went for 4th and short at midfield. I think we did it several times against wake or samford at home. I wonder if he does not trust the o-line to execute on those plays; as a result does not want to risk it with a suboptimal o-line?
4th & Short
Generally speaking I agree with you here, but if I had to put myself in Jimbo’s shoes he is thinking that his defense is playing lights out and he can pin them deep and make them drive the length of the field to score (very unlikely against this defense) and that is why he chose to punt on those 4th downs at midfield so I didn’t necessarily have a problem with it, especially considering the Oline wasn’t getting the 3rd and shorts converted. I think if the defense wasn’t playing so dominant on any given day or if it is a close game against a more quality opponent like Clemson I think he would go for it, especailly to keep the ball away from a potent offense like Clemson. That’s the logic I believe Jimbo used there.
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think no matter how good a defense is it doesn't trump keeping opp offense off the field.
Do you think it was to help preserve a shut out? Conversation starter with MEjr?
No & No
I think the defense and Jimbo wants shutouts of course but it was more of playing field position and making NC State go 80 or 90 yards to score a TD rather than give them a short field and with our Dline being so disruptive and taking away the run game it really made NC State one dimensional and our safeties and corners were always in positions to make a play on the deep ball when it was trhown (see Rhode’s INT). MEJ had nothing to do with the gameplan I’m sure. It was more about field position and having extreme confidence in the way the defense was playing IMO
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
the defense was obviously the superior unit on saturday. i have no problem w/CJF playing to the team’s strength. now if on thursday night the defense is on skates and the offense is playing lights out? go for it—and i think he will/would.
by nole country for old men on Oct 30, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
I would expect Jimbo to go for it in many other situations that would call for it
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot support sub-optimal decisions, particularly when those repeated errors caused FSU to leave its starters in much longer than necessary with a game on Thursday.
And the third-&-shorts were not on the offensive line for the most part. Jabaris whiffed and Jermaine missed a hole.
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Agree there
I remember Thomas missing that read for the hole and let’s not get started on our Senior TE’s. Usually I agree with you and I’m not necessarily disagreeing but I will say that I don’t have the same issues with it due to the overall game we were playing, particularly on defense. I could go either way for this specific 4th down situations…otherwise go for it. But I forgot about the short week. You make an excellent point in getting the starters out by the end of the 3rd by converting those 4th downs. Good call
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He still could have pulled the starters at the end of the 3rd.
We were up 4 scores and the D was playing lights out.
Regardless of the reasons for not hitting 3rd & short, we weren’t hitting them. There wasn’t a real need to press for more points. There wasn’t a need to risk giving NCST any momentum and allow them an opportunity to stop us on 4th & short and get good field position. If we were down or the game was closer and we needed the points, I think Jimbo would’ve gone for it. I’m fine with the decisions he made.
Jimbo called a decent game
I’m sure he will go for it on fourth and short against our rivals. My only issue is that he kept the starters in too long.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
by Matt Champion on Oct 30, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
In those circumstances I expected CJF to go for it on fourth down too.
Has the media asked him why he didn’t? Do you have access to ask the question? I’d be curious regarding his answer.
Disagree 100%
Bud I love your work and believe overall your knowledge is good…but to say CJF quit on those drives is just flat out wrong. What’s the benefit to beat them 50-0 instead of 34-0? Punt, play defense and make sure you don’t let them into the game with an unnessecary risk. Weather or not we would have picked up the first downs is completely irrelevant.
by FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME! on Oct 30, 2011 6:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s basing his comments on studies that have been done on expected point value called “fourth down math.” Have a read. (only one part of a series)
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html
>>---l>
that is true ONLY if CJF had decided to pullthe starters once a certain Poijnt differential had been scored
instead of deciding ot keep the starters in for a predetermined time allotment.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Oct 30, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Point
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Oct 30, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
And the answer to the latter question is one he gave below. The earlier FSU puts the game away the faster it can remove its starters and rest them/reduce injury risk before playing in Boston on 4 days rest.
>>---l>
And if EJ goes down on a 4th and 1 sneak when were up by 4td's
Im sure we’d all agree that it was ok since the math backs it up…..right?
This is the dumbest argument I have even seen on TN, and lately that is saying something.
Jimbo is the Tomas Crown of NCAAFB
by stevegrizzle on Oct 30, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is nonsensical Grizz
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by Bud Elliott on Oct 30, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They stuffed us on 3rd and 1
It is the absolute right call with a punter who can pin them inside the 20. And our o-line is garbage
by Noles3 on Oct 30, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Our short yardage running was not good
I think that may have influenced Jimbo’s decisions.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that probably had some influence.
I also think Jimbo calls the game differently based on the level of talent of the team we are facing. Against a more talented team with an explosive offense (OU, CU) he probably would of gone for it. Against NC State their offense wasn’t going to score enough points against our defense to win unless the FSU offense helped them. Another factor is while Jimbo preaches taking each game at time he is smart enough to realize that the calls he makes in this game will effect how future more talented teams prepare for him. Basically if FSU was known for going for it on 4th and short when field position dictated that it was the high percentage choice then other teams might spend more time practicing and developing strategies to stop it when we need it to actually win a game.
O-line is definitely not garbage.
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They are the worse in the acc
We can’t run the ball and give up twice as many sacks as we did last year. SoI I don’t know what o- line you are watching but the o-line that has been on the field on Saturdays is not very good but they are young and can turn into a strong group in the next few years
by Noles3 on Oct 30, 2011 6:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
89th in rushing per game
but the more meaningful number of avg per carry FSU is #76. Not stellar, but we were 100+ in both categories three games ago.
I’d be willing to bet that of the 24 sacks given up, five to eight are on EJ not throwing the ball away, and another three to six are on the backs not picking up the their pass pro correctly. The film review guys could comment on this, but I’d be surprised if my “gut feeling” was way off. I say about half the sacks are on the O line.
Prior to this game, on running downs (standard downs), we were averaging
4.75 ypc on “true” running plays, 5.14 last year.
50.5% success rate, 52.5% last year.
On 3rd and short we average 5.77 ypc and converting 11/13. IMO, what your running game does on 3rd and short is the most telling.
We were horrible in the first few games and have been very good the last few. I think you have to consider the running game is actually quite good now, as after the Wake game we were averaging under 4 ypc and less than 35% SR.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren't you ignoring competition level?
I’m still waiting for a decent opponent before I call it even close to “quite good.”
Nope. Competition level has been pretty constant.
S&P rushing defense:
ULM-61
CSU-121
OU-6
CU-75
Wake-90
Duke-84
Maryland-82
NCSt-89
The big jump in our running game occurred between Wake and Duke, coinciding with a pretty constant competition level AND changing the blocking scheme AND getting EJ’s legs back.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe "quite good" wasn't the best descriptor.
How about “good” and “quite improved”?
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll almost buy that.
There are still too many variables in there to just give them a pass.
EJ playing/not playing/allowed to run/etc.
BC just completely steamrolled UMd on the ground (372 yards); has something changed to cause them to be more atrocious than earlier in the season?
I refuse to believe Duke defends the run better than Clemson. You can S&P me to death on that one, but I won’t relent.
Wake game.. not sure if the turnovers prevented us from TRYING to run. As I recall, we were having success until we dug ourselves in a hole.
So.. just want to see what we can do against a statistically decent defense — that I don’t need statistics to tell me it is a good defense. Ya dig?
So.. just want to see what we can do against a statistically decent defense — that I don’t need statistics to tell me it is a good defense. Ya dig?
They are most definitely NOT the worst in the ACC.
And they are getting progressively better each week. They played well this weekend. Not exceptionally, but well.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
You'd be an idiot
if you rate the quality of our O-line now based on O-line from the first 2-4 games.
Exactly.
all of the stats we keep and film review certainly indicate this is a totally different group now.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool that your carat is pointing at me.
haha.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
We averaged more than one yard per rush in the game.
We have a 240+ pound QB. Odds would seem to be in the offenses’ favor on 4th down.
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Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
I’m not really sure you guys want his job…
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Ya, I know. I’m just making my own point, too.
Bud appears a little stressed right now.
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In terms of importance for the NCST game
the punting on 4th down thing ranks like a 1.5 on a scale of 1-10. It’s a fair criticism, though, but he’s defending it a little bit too much for something that meant so little.
In another situation and context, I’d be criticizing Jimbo’s calling, too.
I do think Jimbo was experimenting with some new wrinkles for the BC game. If the conditions suck and its snowing, I think we’ll see more FB runs. That’s why there was no hurry to pull starters.
Thoughts on EJ being in up 27-0 with 7 minutes left?
Thoughts on Greg returning a punt with 2:50 left?
Thought those were serious errors in game management. Game is over by any measure and you’re risking injury to them going into a week of short rest.
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Game is over by any measure and you’re risking injury to them going into a week of short rest.
Jimbo has done this in a number of games. Short week or not, I don’t like it.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I was worried to be honest
I was really shocked to see G5 fielding that punt with the game all but over. Remember when Ej took that shot to the shoulder? I was holding my breath there
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i found it odd that our 1st string qb was playing w/the 2nd string ol on the last drive of the duke game.
by nole country for old men on Oct 30, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its important that we put this argument into context for folks, though.
ANY OTHER TEAM would be in a different situation than us. For example, Oklahoma hung up 58 on KState last night. Landry and Co were in the game with 51 points on the board in the 4th quarter while the game was pretty much out of reach. Is this a bad thing?
For us its different. If EJ took another bad hit, we’d be screwed on Thursday while trying to prep Clint for starting duty in a short week. Other teams always have a certain measure of injury risk, but its MUCH easier to re-injure than to injure initially.
I could be off, Bud, but I am pretty sure this is what you are trying to express.
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Plus
our type of offense(Option, Designed Run, Scrambles, Roll Outs, etc.) puts the QB at far more risk for injury than Oklahoma’s style of offense. EJ at QB is literally the center piece of our whole offensive scheme moreso than most other BCS teams.
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It all depends on what the BC game is like
If they run a bunch of FB draws (or runs, generally) against BC, then the starters remained in so long because they started practicing for BC. If they pass against BC a lot, then I am wrong. Of course, I’m starting with the assumption that there was a point to leaving the starters in and attempting to reverse engineer a theory, which is also sketchy at best. But I’m willing to wait and see.
I don’t know who is the back-up PR. I’d like to have let the back-up get a rep or two, so I won’t defend leaving Reid in. Unless, the back-up has a case of the dropsies.
100% agree with the punt returner thing. #1 Greg could get hurt. #2, how about some live reps for the backup.
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The only thing that popped into my head was..
Who else has experience fielding punts? Reed was Reid’s backup, and the only player I remembering getting any other reps in practice was Greene. Still stupid, but I wonder if that was the reason.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Or at least just send him out to fair catch.
Definitely not try to run it back in traffic. Like he did of course.
I have to agree with you Bud
Could have been trying to preserve a shut out for the defense though. They are highly prized for assistants.
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
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I think this might be it.
But individual accomplishments for a coach over the preservation of starters at key positions lacking depth? I cannot endorse that.
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Definitely agree that Jimbo leaves starters in too long.
Just look at the Bert Reed injury. Kept him in way too long in a decided game. This should have never happened. Definitely added to our stretch of losing games.
To take it even further, I think Jimbo puts his star players in too much risk in general. LJ returing kicks, g5 returning kicks late and in meaningless games. Some important defensive starters on special teams etc..
Could this be young coach type stuff?
I think Greg returning is fine, because he is really special there. Agree on LaMarcus.
Not sure if it is a youth coaching issue.
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I think it's clear he's concerned about the PR problem since the OU/Clem/Wake back to back losses
He really wanted to keep scoring AND maintain that goose egg
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
FSU has a good point when she said
maybe Jimbo left him in bc he could use the reps, especially against an offense that wasnt really hitting him other than on option runs.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
referring to EJ
not G5. I think G5 shouldve stuck to a few plays on D, but thats it.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
Maybe EJ needs more reps?
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Oct 31, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Feel free to disagree and go with the anecdotal conventional wisdom. Keeping the ball and going for it is the right call. The difference in field position is negligible when compared to the reward of keeping the football.
Smart coaches get this. Not sure why Jimbo screwed it up three times.
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We at least know its not an ongoing issue right now, right? We haven’t seen too much of it. Right?
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Right. I did a longer response below to SteveIB
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Agree again
In fact there are discussions going on some nut case sites about this very subject. Still some out there also that think FSU has a porous defense.
FSU #8 in total defense
- rushing defense
- in sacks
- pass defense (which has been a part of 3 losses)
- in total offense, averaging 35 points per game.
- passing offense but running game beginning to show up.
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
Is Jimbo a smart coach?
I think he is solid, but honestly don’t think he seperates himself as a smart coach. I think there are many coaches in the ACC, let alone the SEC that are equal or superior to him in this category. Solid, but not special.
No.
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MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
I think you're being a little harsh and shortsighted
Provability and statistics are not the only thing to take in account when making these type of calls. If we don’t make it on forth, it takes all the wind out of the offense and gives huge momentum to the opposing team that can change games. I think this is what separates elite coaches, they know the value of momentum and make the right choices to either gain it or at the least never lose it. In this case when they’re being dominated you have very little to gain by comparison of what you will be losing.
Exactly right.
All risk and NO reward
by FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME! on Oct 30, 2011 6:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just when I thought I wasn't going to get anything to read today....
Hands down the best FSU news/ analysis website. Anywhere. Ever.
Your work is appreciated
"Kill a fly with an axe"
Does Saban punt on 4th down inside the opponents territory? Where did Jimbo develop his penchant for punting?
"Kill a fly with an axe"
Not sure, and this isn’t something he always does. Just to do it three times was really dumb.
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I wish we could get in his head sometimes. It would be interesting to know what exactly leads him to his decisions.
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Oct 30, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's even worse
Because of the wind, makes a lot less sense to punt with the wind swirling
do you think he was trying to avoid the appearance of "running it up"?
by garnetandgold on Oct 30, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope that is not it.
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Saban doesn't go for it on 4th very often.
He’s only attempted 7 4th down conversions.
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Oct 30, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Belichek does a bunch
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The question wasn't about Belicheck though, it was about Saban
Saban’s offense has had 107 third downs and converted 54 of them. So of a possible 53 fourth down conversions, Saban has gone for it on fourth just 7 (13.2%). That is a very small amount.
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Oct 30, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact,
http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category26/sort02.html
look at the teams that have a ton of 4th down attempts. Going for it often on 4th is a David strategy (in reference to your previous David and Goliath pieces).
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Oct 30, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It that the case? Or is it that they have no choice but to go for it when losing late?
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LSU and Florida State have only attempted 3, probably where it comes from
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
Agreed, but we don’t know how often they are faced with the situations in which going is the right decision.
And while Saban is probably the best coach in our lifetime, he is not perfect.
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We don't have TB and WW
by FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME! on Oct 30, 2011 7:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can't say it enough, the content/analysis on this site is terrific. I LOVE this new feature you guys are doing, and now with video clips in film review...outstanding.
by NoleSir on Oct 30, 2011 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks NoleSir!
Keep spreading it to your friends via the “like” and “retweet” buttons!
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I have several friends who went to Florida State with me back in the stone age who now read this site and are very grateful for it instead of all the pablum out there. Some of them said hey I didn’t even know about this place. One of them distinctly despises WC and said he never bothers reading it, they hate FSU in his opinion.
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
This was a great complete game.
And while I understand the concerns regarding not going for it on 4th and short several times, I do understand that the team executed the plays called on a consistent basis on both sides of the ball.
As for the offense not being aggressive, Jimbo likes to give as little as possible to the opponent’s film room. This can backfire, but I also think it is a worthy risk to gain the tactical edge in big games.
Which also makes me wonder, was Stoops throwing the kitchen sink @ NC State, or was it just a defense being that solid in out matching an opponent?
Even without the going or not going blunders, 5.77 is not getting it done at all.
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I understand this.
But from what I got to watch of the game.
The offense was not opening it up.
R
There are not twenty years better, but certainly ten better
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Years?
is “teams” a fix? I think I read “teams” there.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
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My Opinion
With a healthy EJ, I see us about 35ish
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe even top 25
this young & inexeperienced oline and Devonta seems to get better each week
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
31st rank but that is ncaa.org not FEI
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
yeah Doc but that ranking
Includes almost 2 full games w Trickett, a completey different starting OL, etc.
Championship!
by TLHWG on Oct 30, 2011 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn't see the postgame presser...
Did Jimbo get grilled on the punt calls as leaving in the starters? If not, what the heck was he asked?
Like the review minus
“This is potentially very concerning because it could mean that Fisher doesn’t understand the value of field position”
I’m sure he does Bud, I’m sure he does. Usually don’t get that head coach job without it.
"Doesn't understand the value of field position" is overstating it
That’s a hell of a strong statement. In this review, I think that’s the one comment that is rather off-base. Seriously.
Did I read the twitter update right?
We’re ranked #32 now. But 5th in the nation in defense, and 13th in offense. One of those three things doesn’t belong
"Kill a fly with an axe"
Enjoy the site and articles, but don't really understand the need for name calling
Seems like the WF game was a total team loss.
Ah...
It was the offense that let Harris keep breaking off long runs.
Back on 10/8, you talked about the defense being less than stellar with a couple of big defensive breakdown and poor linebacker play. With 13 penalties. And poor preparation by the coaches. Sure sounds like a team loss.
We turned the ball over 5 times against Wake
This will cause dysfunction in a defense as the D becomes more tired and frustrated. It would be great if Stoops had some sort of magical ability to prevent negative emotions in the defense, but that’s not realistic. Yes, the D gave up the yards, but I think only “idiots” think that its reasonable to expect the D to hold up through 5 TOs
Literally, less than stellar. I stand by that. But the offense was atrocious and was the overwhelming cause for the loss. What the defense did against Wake was not horrible.
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It was.
And that was my point. No one said the offense played well, but to act as if the defense couldn’t/shouldn’t have done more leads me to believe it was a team loss.
Football Study Hall agrees:
While I think the FSU offense was more to blame for this loss, it’s easy to see why FSU fans may be frustrated with the defense: they were brilliant at leveraging Wake into passing downs, but time after time, they let Tanner Price and company make plays on passing downs and extend drives. The full-game numbers were not that strong for Wake, but they shouldn’t have been as strong as they were considering their awful leverage rate.
But whatever, that was 3 weeks ago now. Just still stings because of the Clemson loss, think they will drop another just because and it won’t help us now.
The depressing part is
we need Clemson to drop their two remaining games to Wake and to NC State, AND we need Wake to lose to Maryland after they defeat Clemson.
I kind of wish that Wake had beaten UNC yesterday just so that the ACC Atlantic would be out of our reach and we could stop talking about it entirely.
The fact that its still mathematically possible pisses me off.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
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All VT keeps saying is how they could've beaten Clemson
To which I say, “yeah us too.”
by CCDFSU07 on Oct 30, 2011 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Consider the opponent
What played into the disappointment with the D was that happened against Wake. Despite 3 or 4 losses against them in recent years many of us still perceive that we should manhandle them every time out, and despite putting our D in tough field positions we should have stuffed them regardless.
A thorough pounding of Wake is moving high on my lists of wants for 2012!
I agree with the name calling criticism, particularly regarding the players.
Analyzing someone’s performance can be done without the insulting language.
I have no problem with the term idiot
he used it properly. What do you call individuals who act senseless and foolish?
That statement would be fare if the individuals in question realized their foolishness and backed off
This, for the most part, was not the case after the Wake loss.
When you call someone an idiot on an internet forum, they did their heels in and keep pushing
If you refer to the idiots as intelligent people who have made a mistake, you’re more likely to get them to listen.
Yes, you are right however this is three weeks out from that lose.
They have had 3 weeks to think about it and hear both sides. And they still think this way. What are we to think of them?
I'm not saying that they aren't idiots.
I’m just saying you need to sugar-coat things to idiots.
It isn't just this post, chb03c
The moderators here, Bud included, have talked about players in the past in terms of “they suck” or “they’re dumb”. It seems inappropriate and unnecessary to use that sort of language when evaluating our players.
Well I don't see where he made a comment about a certain player in this post
but to other posts I think you need to realize that budd is a commentator he does this blog site in order to give his opinion. He isn’t reporting facts 100% of the time, part of it is his analysis under his opinion. Given that if you don’t like his analysis then you can read about FSu football in the orlando sentinel of somewhere else. He presents this in an edgy way and that is how he has been successul at it all these years.
I think Bud would be just as successful without the pejorative adjectives.
In fact, using language like that makes him sound like the many name-calling posters you see on the internet message boards.
Who are you?
Aaron Lynch’s mother? Chill bro.
by CCDFSU07 on Oct 30, 2011 10:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who are you, Bud's mother?
I don’t approve of insulting our players, even those that aren’t very good. You, apparently, have no problem with it.
Hey! You're not supposed to be critical of somebody when they are being critical of somebody!
Just remember…
Before you criticize people, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you’re a mile away. And you have their shoes. (J. K. Lambert)
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
Who are you, D. Russo's mother?
Wait…………..that didn’t come out right.
#WheresTheEditButton
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
Have turned them down several times now.
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You call them idiots!
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
Absolutely Not
The offense lost that game for us with 5 turnovers, several short fields for Wake, and a safety. Name me a team that has an offense that does that and still wins the game??? Ummmm rhetorica, answer is NOBODY. The truth hurts and the truth is the offense lost the Wake game.
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Among 4-3 defenses, I think FSU is in a group with LSU, Penn State, and perhaps uf, South Carolina and ohio state. Probably missing one more
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Would that team be
Michigan State, Oklahoma, or OK State?
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
by Matt Champion on Oct 30, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't need to wait until "Outsiders" does their thing
Rush D (avg. per play)
1……….. Ala
2………. FSU
4………. LSU
Total D
1……….. Ala
4……….. LSU
6……….. S Car
7……….. UGA
8……….. FSU
I was talking about
teams that i know run 4-3 fronts.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
by Matt Champion on Oct 30, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta defend Rodney
Rewatched that hit a few times…I think it was a perfectly timed hit as he’s bringing the ball to his body. Not much he could have done differently other than make a spin move to the right as he’s moving to his left.
I loved his block on the Reed reception. Certainly a tough display there.
"You make the helmet, the helmet doesn't make you." << Jimbo FN' Fisher
Twitter @RobbedbyJT
He also dropped another ball. Not mentally tough yesterday. Has to focus.
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What if Jimbo didn’t go for it because he doesn’t want to reveal what he does on 4th and short? You gotta think Miami and UF are games that are must win, why tip your hat in making them think you will always go for it? I don’t know I think I would be more upset that he didn’t go for it if it were a game against a major rival.
I know last year he went for 4th and short a number of times I think one of them was against miami, maybe even UF.
Certainly, if he messed up in this fashion against a major rival, we’d all be angrier. But that’s because of the importance of the game.
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By S&P standards, the entire 2nd half was garbage time.
We typically go by the FEI method, though.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but in the second half really the 3rd Quarter was the only bad one.
4th wasn’t great but also wasn’t bad either.
That's probably true.
Just pointing out garbage time has several definitions.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I know
I think we are being a little harsh on the offense. When you play Duke,Maryland and NCST back to back there has to be some point where the team is feeling like they are going through the motions.
Like Jimbo always says
you have to play 60 minutes
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Right...
But the anaylsis is the pre-garbage time…IE the first half and the 3rd q. Not 60 mins. If you include the full 60 its better..and if you S+P garbage time its much better. The 3rd q was just really bad.
Agreed
That 3rd quarter was just awful on offense. I ahve seen this defense put together a few complete games. Still waiting for the offense to do the same. “IF” that happens this team could be extremely dangerous. Our one glaring weakness is the inexperience, youth, and lack of depth on the Oline. We have very capable RB’s. I’m really pleased to see the way the Oline is playing better each week. Next year should be an even better more complete team. Just hoping Jenkins stays for his Senior year.
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We won 34-0. And won the last two weeks by 25
And I don’t think we’ve broken a sweat since Wake. I think we’re fine. We don’t need to score 40 in order to be dominant.
I'm not complaining
I just think there is room for improvement on offense
by SarasotaSeminole on Oct 30, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm big on process
but it helps that I don’t feel entitled that FSU should win every game 65-0, I understand that the better team will lose every once in awhile, and we’re still feeling the aftereffects of Bowden’s lack of recruiting at certain positions (safety, OL, RB).
You seem angry today, Bud.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 2:22 PM EDT reply actions
Poor decisions forced us to keep the starters in too long?
Will this hurt us on a short week and a loooooooooooong trip to the NE?
Probably.
Probably not.
Are they hiking to NE?
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, ya build some mental toughness.
But I think it takes a good 6 hrs to get up there, even if it’s charter. That’s basically half a day less to prepare.
6 hours on a single prop plane.
Charter flight should take between 2-3 hours max.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
I meant from tallhassee to where they are staying in Mass.
But yes you’re right Boston’s 1300 miles, I thought it was farther. So going 550mph charter would only be 2-3 hrs.
Flying in style
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
Bud, do you commonly refer to the advancednflstats chart for the sense on when to go?
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html
Or is there some other data out there that you’ve discussed on the site before? I’d love to see it, but I don’t recall you ever having a specific post about it.
That said, I’ll have to put in my two cents for the naysayers on this one. I don’t see anything wrong with Jimbo punting yesterday, would never say it was a “gamble” or a “terrible decision.” The page linked above (unless you have something more specific) clearly states
This analysis only applies to ‘typical’ game situations when the score is relatively close, time is not expiring, and weather is not a large factor. With time expiring or if one team has a large lead, a different type of analysis is required.
Why you would insist CJF going for it when up by 3 or 4 scores late in the game, I do not understand. I can see the counter-argument that if JImbo was trying to be non-aggressive he should have taken his starters out, but that’s not the argument you make. Help me understand. What it sounds like you’re doing is taking a very rigid chart that reads something like “34 yard line, less than 5 to go, PLAY. More than 5, PUNT/KICK” and trying to apply it to a complicated game without discretion.
by stevib on Oct 30, 2011 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Completely Agree
It’s situational. The NC State offense’s strength is throwing the deep ball. Their weakness is their running game. When FSU punts and puts NC State in bad field position, FSU takes away/limits their strength. If FSU goes for it on 4th down and doesn’t get it, it opens up NC State’s playbook and plays to their strength. A big score on one play can change momentum. That is a lesser possibility after punting. In addition, FSU’s defense was dominant and it was a fair assumption that the FSU offense would receive the ball in good field position once again.
This is why I didn't have a big problem with punting.
The FG try is quite baffling, though.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
FG was really bad
i think Jimbo let his frustration influence him there
the fg was stupid
That was the only time that not going for it bothered me. 52 yards into a very strong wind. Stupid. I’m an idiot and I knew he couldn’t make that.
by skifsu on Oct 30, 2011 9:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
After watching the ESPNU broadcast, I’m thinking Jimbo got word that Jack Nicklas was in the booth criticizing his offense and decided to attempt a FG to get to a commercial break faster and get Jack off the air.
Now that....
I can believe.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I should have c/p’d the argument I made yesterday to give this one more context.
FSU needed to get its starters out with a game only four off-days away. Jimbo’s decisions did not give FSU the best chance to get to a point where they could pull the starters. I understand the idea that punting/kicking in these situations is sub-optimal is new to many, but that doesn’t make it incorrect. I know you understand the rationale and I don’t think these situations are questionable at all. We’re not dealing with 4th-5 from our own 40.
I’ve staunchly defended Jimbo to many here before, but these situations were well within his control and he did not make the correct decision. He didn’t make the decisions to put the game away.
Normally, I’d be angry about this. But with the need to get the starters off the field magnified given the short week, I think it was a series of egregious errors. Really do.
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Agree about the starters
He could have pulled most of them at any time in the 4th quarter.
I don’t believe the decision to punt vs. “go for it” had a bearing on this. For some reason he left them in and wanted to score again as evidenced by EJ throwing. The “error”, if there was one, was in trying to the score mid way through the 4th with a 27 point lead. As I expressed on another thread, I think he wanted to have the “first teamers” leave with a “positive result” in their mind as a result of 3rd quarter offensive miscues. I cannot entirely accept this because of the risk factor of injury and the very few days rest, but I don’t believe he had a final score in mind when he made the decision to punt. Therefore, in my mind, the two are unrelated.
agree on "leave with a positive result"
Jimbo has clearly stated that he wants to throw for the lead, then run once you have the lead. But, we kind of stalled in the 2nd half and he felt the need to open it up again just to get some energy back in the O and get to a point spread where he felt comfortable pulling the starters. In other words, at that point he wanted a dominant win on paper, not some ho-hum looking 24-14 win.
Why he didn’t feel the same on those 4th down situations I can’t say, but I don’t disagree with the “give them a long field and they won’t score on us” theories.
Agreed....
Jimbo had Bert Reed in the game against a cupcake before the Oklahoma game and he got injured.
There was NO point in having your only WR with experience (at that time) risk injury.
Jimbo is a solid coach, but I don’t think he is a superstar. Too many things he does I just think are less than brilliant (my favorite this year was running 130 pound Clint Trickett on a QB sneak against Clemson. I will never get over how insanely stupid that was).
On another note,
What do you think the difference between the 1st half (7.1 YPP) and 2nd half pre-garbage time (3.6 YPP) play was? Too conservative play-calling, break down in the RBs making proper reads?
Will definitely be examining this. We had some errors by receivers, offensive line, qb and RB. Basically, nobody escapes blame.
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Overly-simple but they didn't seem nearly as focused in the 2nd half
There were quite a few plays were it looked like teammates weren’t on the same page.
I know I'm extremely excited about the future of our young receivers!
Great hands on all of them.
"Forever and always... GO NOLES!"
Might the fieldgoal and punting on 4th and short
have been meant to get the special teams units some work? Or, to let up on NCST, since Jimbo doesn’t seem to run up the score gratuitously on anyone.
Randy Edsall disagrees.
And his players are crying because of it.
Speaking of those guys
Anyone think Edsall has lost that team? Rumors of upper-classmen not buying in, quarterback carousel, and now they drop one to BC. Disclaimer, I didn’t see the game or read anything about it
Some reporters said the attendance was 5,000
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5,000 at the start of the game
500 mid way through the4th.
You had to be one die-hard fan to sit through that crap.
Sooo, I'm NOT imagining the offense underwhelming?
By no fault of EJ (he was money), the offense didn’t wow me, like it should’ve against a team that banged up/mediocre in the first place.
Is Coley calling the plays or is Jimbo? (curious)
"But they understand expectations don’t win games. And just because you’re picked to win, they don’t give you the trophy when the season starts. And we tell our kids that we have to form great habits and have great work ethic and form our identity as a team. We just have to reinforce that everyday because as we tell them, the pressure of expectations is only there if we aren’t prepared for them. If we prepared for them and we’re prepared mentally and physically, the pressure of the expectation won’t bother us." - Jimbo Fisher
I think people realy underestimate how much we rely on the run to be an elite offense.
Also people forget how young we are on offense. Other than Zebree, EJ, and Smith its not like these guys are terribly experienced/mautre like OU’s offense.
re the run & being elite
Jimbo says this all the time: elite teams are able to run when the other team knows they’re running, eg, 3rd/4th & short, goalline/RZ, w a comfortable lead. ATM we’re not elite.
Championship!
by TLHWG on Oct 30, 2011 8:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jimbo all the way.
He might have let Coley get the last drive with instructions to just run the ball.
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
by Legal_Seminole on Oct 30, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I do want to add I think Christian Greene may be our best receiver.
For a guy who hasn’t played the position (he was a QB in HS) he sure is improving rapidly and has a huge ceiling.
He still needs to change that awful number though.
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
He is going to be a stud if he keeps developing.
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No doubt.
I think he has the most potential out of our current crop and we have an outstanding corp of WRs.
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
by Legal_Seminole on Oct 30, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the number matches him either
A low number like 6 would suit him well IMO
I was thinking either 1,8,9 or 83
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
by Legal_Seminole on Oct 30, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
TomahawkNation TomahawkNation.com
FSU’s defense is allowing only 4.4 yards/play in conference. That’s more than a full yard better than the second-best defense.
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If that's elite, then what's the word for Alabama's yards/play defense?
3.6 in conference.
Alabama's "Epic" defense...
is helped by the fact that they play in a conference with the worst quarterback play in the nation… I really can’t think of one team in the conference with a decent quarterback besides Arkansas… And he’s not anybody special… Jordan Rodgers, out of Vanderbilt may actually be the best…
I think
Aaron Murray is actually really good.
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
I agree
but to be fair, his receivers made great catches for the two touchdowns Georgia scored on fourth down.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
by Matt Champion on Oct 30, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
see LSU vs OREGON
For how good the best SEC Ds are.
Championship!
by TLHWG on Oct 30, 2011 8:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or FSU vs OU
for an example of how FSU D stacks up vs. an elite O, also having crowd noise advantage.
Has Alabama played just one offense as good as OU or Clemson?
I’m asking… can’t think of one.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Wouldn't it be
scheme, talent, and how well the talent fits into the scheme? Either way, Bama hasn’t played an offense as good as Clemson and OU. Maybe Arkansas?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Yeah that's what I'm thinking Arkansas...
I’m VERY interested to see how they play Auburn after having to deal with Georgia Southern (curious scheduling).
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
No.
Also playing games against teams like Wake, Duke and NC State, all of whom havehigh-quality throwing QBs who can do damage to your YPPA if they get time to throw once in a while.
You've watched them more than I
What would you say the big differences are:
Longer time in their system?
LB play?
Those are the only two that jump out at me. FTR, I think our LB’s have gotten much better..just not at Bama’s level.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Think they have some smarter coaches. Think Saban is better than everyone as a defensive coach and it’s not close. And they play with more power than we do, less speed. Never get behind the QB/RB. The d-line keeps everything in front of it. They really two-gap very well, which is really rare in CFB
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I have noticed the DL getting a little
undisciplined with pass rush lanes the last few games. I think it has more to do with facing immobile QB’s, vice coaching. They were much more cautious against Boyd, Brown and the ULM guy.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
But I do understand what you're saying about the rest.
Looks like the smartest defense in CFB.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
From everything I've read, it seems like Bama under Saban:
A. Can do a lot of stuff
2. Have the personnel to do a lot of stuff
D. Have coaches who know how to use both the stuff & personnel at the right time & situation
So pretty much… they’re solid.
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
I mean against the run too
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Yeah, I gotcha.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 31, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope that our run defense next year can be as good as the current bama run D.
But I don’t think we or anybody for that matter will have a pass D as good as the one they have this year.
NC State 51-yd FG in the 2nd quarter...
Knowing Sade doesn’t have that big of a leg, should Gran have thrown G5 in the end-zone in case the kick falls short….which it did??? Looked like there would have been quite a lot of running room down the sideline….
Bud... I would like to make a request.
I watched a healthy chunk of Fla/Ga yesterday (while a work, missed a few spots) and watched UGa’s DLine pretty much manhandle UF’s OLine.
I watched and found myself wondering how UGa’s DLine stacks up to ours. Does anyone know if they have the same depth? Better/worse mechanics? And more importantly, how will our line stack up to UFs in comparison?
I am pissing my pants right now for November 26th. I’m thinking about taking the day off of work to attend the game, in fact. I imagine tickets will be fairly easy to find by then after UF loses to USCe…
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
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Very short list of better defensive lines than FSU. I don’t put UGA on there, but they are pretty good. They are a very different style than FSU’s
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you tease!
Give us the list Bud! :)
by ChiefOceola on Oct 30, 2011 4:30 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Very Short List...
I got FSU being number 1. Even the best ranked schools in the nation don’t have the depth or talent we boast in the trenches… LSU has a good d-line but their strength is in the secondary. Alabama (although 3-4) has a stout D-line but they don’t get after the ball like we do.. Michigan St. has a solid D-line but I don’t think they have the depth… Stanford and Georgia both play 3-4 so they play a different style. Florida has talent on the D-line but something is wrong with their set-up. And Miami had a good d-line until everyone got injured…
There are teams with talent but I can’t find a team with the amount of talent that can compare to us…
Don’t like lists. I like groupings.
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Hmm. LSU? maybe Penn State? UF? Ohio State?
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UF?
If UF’s d line is on the list they have really under achieved. Penn State seems so suspect to me this year. Feels like they are just getting by every game!
by ChiefOceola on Oct 30, 2011 10:45 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm not a big believer in UF's defense either,
but PSU is getting by because of their defense, which is top-5. Their offense is awful, bottom-40.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
UF has a very questionable secondary, but the defensive line is pretty good. That’s why I said “maybe”
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Is it their depth on the line that keeps failing them when they get run on up the middle?
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Oct 31, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And inexperience in the scheme
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A little off topic
But CP7 just got his first win as a starter over sCam Newton and Carolina!
A Pessimist Complains About The Weather
An Optimist Waits For It To Change
A Realist Adjusts The Sails
CP7 for Heisman lives again!!!!
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
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by DutchFSU2 on Oct 30, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Christian Ponder is the real deal...
Minnesota is playing with the same players and yet you can see a big difference in on-field performance when Ponder started playing as opposed to Donovan….
do we break into top 25 any time soon?
by ChiefOceola on Oct 30, 2011 4:27 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Maybe in another week or two...
Oklahoma and Clemson losing is going to make it harder for us to crack the 25, plus those two pathetic cup cakes in the beginning is killing our strength of schedule….
Most teams play two cupcakes during the season, so at worse we're on equal footing with almost every other team
But right now only Auburn is ranked with 3 losses, and they beat two teams that might be better than anyone we’ve beaten so far
UF and who else?
and they were not at all impressive against UF. They can’t play QB or play defense. But they are in the almighty SEC. WOW! They are soooooo #1derful.
Rant aside, I hope we do not get ranked until after we win our bowl game.
I like the chip on our shoulder instead of a target on our back.
UF, South Carolina, and probably Miss State are presumably better than NCST, Duke, and Maryland, right?
So your sarcasm makes you look dumb. We haven’t beat a team with a winning record.
Even Auburn’s losses are better than ours: LSU > Oklahoma, CU = CU, and Arkansas > Wake
Please enlighten the dumb about how AU
showed out against LSU and Arky? That’s right – not even close, and bordering on dumpster fire material. Or how about the way they played CU after getting spotted a 21 point lead?
Yes, they beat USCe in a game which led to the end of the Garcia era, but hey, we tapped that last December more convincingly (26-17 and took a knee at the five with a minute left). UF is nothing but an empty uniform and Miss St.? They had their once in a lifetime season last year, not this.
NC State was 4-3 when the entered Doak last weekend. Nothing to write home about, but they were just getting healthy for the first time all season, too.
I’m just a little tired about hearing how great the SEC is when their players are 17-22 years old, bleed, get hurt, fil classes, drink beer, do dumb things etc. just like the kids of the same age in every other conference. However, since America is all about branding and marketing, and the SEC does that better than all the rest, then its teams must be the best.
That would mean we have another loss or two.
I’d much rather be ranked than not ranked. I’ve never understood this.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Fify.
superstitiousnonsense.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Question about our ACCCG chances???
I know the only way for us to get to the Championship game is for us to miraculously back door our way in. But if Clemson loses another game (which is highly probable, since their offense doesn’t travel and their defense sucks) and Wake Forest loses again, then does that mean we get there???
I’m looking at the Clemson @ NC State game as their potential next loss and Wake potentially losing to Clemson and Maryland…
they both need to get to 3 losses
So CU needs to lose both remaining ACC games and Wake needs to beat CU and then lose to Maryland. That’s the only way.
Yea that would be a miracle ending...
But Clemson is very fragile minded and that Ga Tech loss could carry on to the Wake game and the NC State game… Plus we already know about the locker room turmoil that Clemson is facing with some of it’s un-happy players.. It was funny to see how quick Dabo & Co rushed over to console Bellamy as soon as he fumbled the ball…
I think he was saying “Ey it doesn’t matter how many times you fumble, just don’t leave”…
Just regarding the rumors..
about Bellamy being jealous of Sammy’s stardom and wanting to get more playing time… But I’m not banking on that, just thought it was a funny issue for a team that was undefeated to be dealing with…
Bellamy wants Mo Money
and Dabo says, “Bellamy, you better earn like Sammy or you’ll git slapped!!!”
The wake loss finished it
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
Bud you make me laugh
“Rodney smith not being tough.” And “fisher does not understand the value of field position”
D-Hop has tiger blood
Don't forget to tip your waitress.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
LOL... Bud's drive for perfection...
can lead to some harsh criticism….I think Jimbo already knew that NC State was going to be in for a long day so he wanted to kind of take it easy on them…
I'm going to disagree
FSU’s offense was not “disappointing”.
The only fourth down call that I wish Fisher went for was 4th and 3 which resulted in a (missed) FG attempt from 52 yards. There would have been a better chance of making the 4th down than that attempt kicking into the wind. Every other 4th down I was fine with the safe punt calls. FSU’s defense was playing well and the Noles would get the ball back soon enough.
I’ll give you 2 other reasons FSU’s offense was not disappointing:
Just 1 turnover and it was the result of a great hit that got a favorable wolfpack bounce, ball protection on offense was outstanding.
NCSU defense would have been a really solid defense for them this year if not for all the injuries, they were close to full strength for this game.
At worst it was on par with every other game.
Don’t even know where to start, so I won’t.
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No need.....
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Great breakdown as usual...
Though I’m not as excited about it as some folks. NCSU just isn’t really all that great of a squad.
Sound win? Yes. Impressive? Meh, it’s a game we should win.
The defensive outing was certainly impressive.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Not dissapointed with the offense at all.
I realize the performance in the 2nd half was nowhere near the numbers put up in the first but, we were up 24-0 at the half and it might be safe to say the offense lost it’s focus and probably just stopped caring. i feel confident that this offense could have had a much better 2nd hald if they wanted to.
As for Jimbo’s decisions, I’m not looking as far into it as some. I agree its something to keep an eye on, but I’m pretty sure the head coach at FSU knows plenty about field position, and I don’t think he punts in a more tightly contested game.
The defense was just insane and they actually forced some turnovers! Can’t wait to see what they do against Miami and UF.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Enough of the "expected knock" on the coaches or players
Last week I said no one had given any love to theO line or coach Trick. This week where is the love for the special teams? Completely shut down one of the more dangerous return guys in the country…come on guys…someone say something nice. Didn’t hear one word about one of the very best option qb’s in the country. EJ is a dual purpose qb but his option skills are incredible. Man just has a knack for holding the ball and making the defense commit and then at the last split second he tosses it ACCURATELY to a trailing back.
I had to go back and check the score to make sure we won based on some of the comments here. Seems to be a bias on criticism because a fear of being too much of a “homer” I guess.
34-0. That’s a good thing.
Special teams kicked ass and not one word of praise.
EJ is not a dual threat…he’s a triple threat.
Give it up to the good things.
Expected knock? Last week I had an incredible amount of praise for the line. In the film review, the podcast, etc.
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But i would like someone to say something
about special teams or EJ’s option abilities. One was very good and the other was special.
You just granted your own wish.
Power to the people.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I try to say so many times that he is so naturaal at it.
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by Bud Elliott on Oct 30, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The option pitches scare the hell out of me right now. It seemed like we ran it more smoothly with EJ the last two years than we do this year. So far everything has worked out ok, but I just know Miami will be the game where we get an errant pitch taken back for a TD.
Yeah, gotta agree with this
It is incredible he keeps pulling it off, but I really don’t like him doing it while getting pummeled by 3 guys.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You almost can hear him laughing like a maniac
when he pitches it while being tackled by 3 defenders.
O.K.
E.J. is a very good option quarterback. I don’t like to see him get too carried away with that unless it is a crucial game however.
By most counts FSU has entered the top ten defensively and was hurt with three miscues that gave the ball back to Clemson and five against Wake. I thought this game gave a glimpse of how effective it can be when silly mistakes are not made.
FSU is still yet to lose a game E. J. has played in for 4 quarters.
A casual stroll through the mental asylum shows that faith does not prove anything...Nietzsche
How good bad music and bad reason sound when one marches against an enemy...Nietzsche
This is true,
FSU is still yet to lose a game E. J. has played in for 4 quarters.
but this has only occurred in games that were in no way…losable.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I seem to recall similar comments
about Wake.
Not from me.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not here to hear myself talk Doc KN
but I’d really like to get this discussion going about special teams and “J C Watts on steriods”.
I guess no one appreciates (oops the other Doc just jumped in) the good work from both Gran’s boys or that split second pitch ability of EJ. I don’t care who we’re playing…that’s a unique skill.
No, but it is a message board. You got something to say...say it. Don't ask others to do it for you.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait...what?
What happened here?
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Oct 30, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
^ - #Ninja'd
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Just watched the first half of the game
Hart is giving it his all but man he’s playing in a fog.
Jimbo’s going to have plenty to write to the ACC between the refs moving the chain closer to the ball for a first down and they BLATANTLY (the caps is for emphasis, seriously it’s that bad) allowed a play when the 12th and 13th man for NCSU were right in front of the line judge at the snap of the ball. I laughed when I went back and counted.
To make matters even worse
They were offsides by 3 yards!! It’s one thing to have a counting ineptitude, but when you’ve got defensive lineman standing behind wide receivers I’d start to think something is wrong!!
They're freaking Al-Jibrah terrorists
With weapons of math destruction
disagree with your offensive assessment
the offense was efficient and often took what the defense gave. i think jimbo playing the field position game is a smart move. although as a fan i would like to see our offense on the field, i think he played it like he would against a much tougher opponent. if we were playing a top ten team, we would def punt in those fourth and shorts from midfield. i know ncst is NOT a top ten team, but i think you should think that way against any team to prepare for the time you DO play one. ej was efficinet, the running game was solid, the receivers blocked well downfield. i think it was a great team effort on BOTH ends of the ball.
Did anyone notice how many times ej targeted the middle of the field
seems like everything is an Out route, swing pass or deep ball?
D-Hop has tiger blood
Did a better job keeping them honest with screens to the middle.
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by Bud Elliott on Oct 31, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that post route for the TD to Shaw was...
other than that just some middle screens and a dump off or 2 to the RBs.
"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty f*^@ing cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"
- Bill Hicks (another dead hero)
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