Layman's Guide to the FSU Basketball Off-Season
If you're the kind of basketball fan who last thought about FSU basketball roughly 8 minutes after they lost to Virginia Commonwealth in the Sweet-16 last March, then this is for you. Here's a guide to everything you've missed.
For starters, the season begins tomorrow. FSU is playing Jacksonville which sounds like a team that should suck, but they actually beat UF in Gainesville last season so you may want to tune in. If you haven't enjoyed a Tomahawk Nation live thread for basketball then definitely come by. Inside you'll typically find plenty of f-bombs, at least three fans giving up on the season each game, and the occasional philosophical post dissecting the anatomy of a Luke Loucks turnover.
Chris Singleton went pro. He was selected in the 1st round by the Washington Wizards, though, unfortunately (for him), the NBA may no longer exist. Instead he's passing his time running a clothing business, continuing his education, flying around the country attending parties we wish we could go to, and most likely honing his impressive defensive skills which turned the poor Notre Dame kids against one another.
Derwin Kitchen is also gone. Although he seemed to specialize in hitting buzzer beaters just moments following the buzzer, he was actually FSU's best offensive player, and 2nd place wasn't very close. The good news is that we all like streaks, and the Noles will be looking to push their streak of consecutive season with an offense ranked worse than 100 to five straight years.
That little guy at the end of the bench who wore a headband? He's gone too, though I'll get to him in a minute.
Ian Miller is still here, but just barely. Our most gifted offensive player will begin the season in street clothes hoping to become eligible for our December 22nd game against Florida. It seems that last season he was investigating a hypothesis of his, which speculated that attending class was actually bad for you. Turns out he was wrong.
Assistant coach Andy Enfield is gone. He taught shooting mechanics, and believe it or not he was actually really good at it. He also used his NBA connections in recruiting. In his place is Dennis Gates who has a reputation as a good recruiter.
Several of the ACC head coaches are gone. Sidney Lowe and Paul Hewitt got canned. Frank Haith somehow called for a miracle and got it. Not only did he interview for the Missouri job, but they actually hired him. Considering many Missouri fans thought they'd be getting Purdue's Matt Painter – who may be the most desired coach in college hoops – you can imagine what their fans there are thinking. At least the ones who pay attention. Meanwhile, Hurricane fans – also 17 of them – were dancing in the streets. Last but not least, Gary Williams retired from Maryland. Leonard Hamilton replaces Williams as the 2nd longest tenured ACC coaches. However coach Hamilton will not be replacing Williams on the list of a) angriest coaches, or b) sweatiest coaches.
All the coaching changes also leaves Leonard Hamilton as the only black head coach in the ACC. It's like the 1970s all over again, only with longer shorts. Roy Williams remains the only orange coach in the conference.
The Seminoles landed an excellent recruiting class which included two consensus top-100 players. The most highly regarded recruit of 2011 was Aaron Thomas, who oddly enough is also our most highly regarded recruit of 2012. It seems Thomas didn't qualify and instead has enrolled at a boarding school in New Hampshire that a has a scholarship more valuable than one to FSU. Brewster Academy in New Hampshire costs $45,550 per year, and its basketball team has a travel schedule roughly equal to an ACC school. After a year at Brewster he'll come slum it in Tallahassee.
Our next most highly regarded recruit – Antwan Space – broke his foot earlier this week. So that's fun. He'll be out anywhere from a month to the entire season.
We do have two recruits who will be in uniform. The first is Terry Whisnant, a prodigious scorer from North Carolina. Since this Is FSU he has unorthodox mechanics and played against suspect competition. The 2nd is 6'11 Kiel Turpin, a JuCo transfer who may redshirt. As a senior in high school he was 6'4 so he now probably has stretch marks and sore hips. If his name sounds familiar its because he's the son of Kentucky great Mel Turpin. This means that if any Duke fans begin a chant about his dad (who committed suicide) you're morally obliged to punch them in the neck.
In current recruiting news we've landed a 6'7 point guard who's raw but next-level athletic, a 6'3 point guard who no one has heard of because he's from Alaska (and is also taking the prep school route), and a 6'9 JuCo transfer from England, who, oddly enough, has really nice teeth.
Now, back to Pierre Jordan, that little guy with the headband I mentioned earlier from the end of the bench. Taking advantage of a newish rule that allows college graduates to transfer without sitting out a year, Jordan transferred to Georgia Tech (and was replaced at FSU by a graduate of Arkansas who also played for Iowa though he was once committed to Princeton and is coming to FSU because he likes the MBA program). Around the time Jordan transferred, our biggest recruiting target and longtime Seminole lean – 6'9 C Robert Carter – moved from a place very near FSU (Thomasville, GA) to a place very near Georgia Tech (right down the road). Pierre Jordan's father, who happens to be an AAU big-wig, coincidentally coaches Robert Carter during the summer leagues. Now it seems Robert Carter will be attending Georgia Tech, thereby ensuring that Pierre Jordan gets to send plenty of passes his way which he will summarily place into the basket, oftentimes with force.
Well, that about sums it up. Happy basketball.
PS – If you give more than three shits about basketball outside of FSU, you can find the national Layman's Guide right here. If not, more power to you. Go Noles.
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This was an awesome post, great job. Thanks for all the insight. Any chance someone here on TN could put something like this together for baseball? I hate that it is nearly impossible to follow college baseball until tourney time.
One question not answered :
Are we supposed to be good this year? Sounds like a no.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
I wouldn't be surprised if we matched last year's regular season
We have a lot of upperclassmen.
by CelticPride on Nov 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
ESPN
…has us at #3 in the Conference. Not terrible.
GO NOLES!
FEAR THE SPEAR!
>>>--------,,,-----/>
by fsutampaguy on Nov 10, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Me too
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
FSU 3rd in the ACC
Not the ACC as third best. Will definately be another down year for the ACC.
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Shocking
I cant remember the last great, well played ACC game that didnt involve Dook/UNC
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by Mannieblunts on Nov 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
my mistake - (misread above post)
3rd in the acc seems to be the consensus -
but do you think the acc is the 2nd, or 3rd best conference overall?
(I’ll conceded the big east is the strongest…)
Top to bottom?
4th
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 2:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
my guess?
Big East, B10, Big 12. not buying the SEC hype.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
actually, id put the sec above the big 12ish this year
only on the strength of uk & uf also vandy and bama will be solid..
tennessee will be down and uga could be decent -
I think I stand corrected. I was thinking about UK & UF only
I forgot about vandy and bama.
Maybe we are 4th. Not that it really mattes. Hey, a down year means an easier path to the Dance for the Noles.
Free Market Anarchists do it voluntarily.
1. B10, 2. BE, 3. B12, 4. ACC
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
surely youre joking
(and yes, im calling you shirley)
the b 10 1? um, msu and wisky will be solid (and osu replaces some key guys but figures to be legity) but at the end of the day, it seems youre really counting on a lot from a young indiana, a twice acl’ed hummel and a, well, whatever it means to be a northwestern team – it could happen, just seems youre counting on a lot
but the b 12 ahead of the acc is impressive:
it seems to me that they have no one above our top 2 teams and well, almost as many questions as our middle tier…
Bottom half of the ACC is awful.
ACC will be much improved next year, but this year is not going to be good. We probably have three teams at least that would finish last in the Big 10.
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 11, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
wow
thats tough -
i would argue we’re competitive w/ the big 10ish (we do have two of the top 6 teams in the nation, including the unanimous preseason #1), but while our top-tier appears better, they likely win the depth argument – but we’ll get an answer to this q in the acc/big 10ish challenge…
but i would argue that we are a better conference than the big 12ish right now-
after ku and texas they also have a substantial dropoff…
our situation seems to be somewhat similar to the SEC football
setup right now: 2 great teams then a big dropoff.
Free Market Anarchists do it voluntarily.
seems applicable
right now we have a number of solid programs that are in flux w/ new coaches etc
im a bit of an acc homer, but i just dont believe programs like wake, ncsu, clempson g tech and maryland will be down for much longer…
now bc, uva, miami – they could be down for some time…
Athlon Sports has us ranked 3rd in the ACC.
Behind Carolina & Dook and has the wine & cheese crowd going all the way.
We are 26th in both preseason polls.
We SHOULD finish top 4 in the ACC. We SHOULD make the NCAAT again. We are supposed to be good. Just not great.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Igh...a lotta bad news it seems
Gimme some sugar, baby.
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Nov 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions
any more info on the 6'9 british kid?
where is he coming from?
can he play?
how big (weight) is he?
how athletic is he?
what is his game like?
can he shoot?
how did he get nice teeth – and do other brits hate him as a result?
very athletic, slightly smaller version of Bernard James.
Is raw, but possesses good footwork and a nice understanding of the game. Lots of options on how to use him on the defensive end.
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
so...not much of an offensive player?
awesome, another raw defender
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Ugh! You've got to be kidding me about Robert Carter.
I was wondering about him yesterday and just figured he was going to sign later. smh. Welcome to the wonderful world of AAU basketball. Thanks Sonny Vaccaro and Boo Williams. Appreciate it.
by GradSchoolNole on Nov 10, 2011 12:10 PM EST reply actions
He announces today
People will be shocked if he picks FSU
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
haha I really like your writing style, less serious than Bud (jk)
Anyways I saw another Kreft partying citing…wish the guy would spend more time practicing or doing something productive than being at Aj’s or Pots
Never work Retail!!!!!!
Kreft is ALWAYS
out at the bars. He has so much potential, but hes a foul machine. Played 12 minutes (I think) in the 2nd exhibition and fouled out with 18 minutes left in the 2nd half. although he did display some nice offensive touch until he left the game.
by FearTheSpear_1 on Nov 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I guess as long as he doesn't have coke shoved up his...
Oh, never mind. To hell with silver linings.
Excellent job again
Follow @TomahawkNation
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
bq. Hurricane fans – also 17 of them – were dancing in the streets
Actually, per sports information that hey 40,000 fans inside their arena for midnight madness.
by jvnoledawg on Nov 10, 2011 12:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I remember some talk last year about how unfavorably our schedule was set.
Can’t remember the details… short rest after away games?
Anyways, how does that look this year? Is it still bad, or is it on par with the rest of the ACC?
Formerly known as 'stilts'
hopefully no auburn lol
Never work Retail!!!!!!
by phi*tau-nole on Nov 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
nope, we got Auburn on January 4.
But this time we get ’em at home!!!
Free Market Anarchists do it voluntarily.
So it's even worse for our RPI than last year.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Think Auburn can manage to be that bad, two years in a row?
Honestly have no idea about their prospects.
In any event. Mr. Rogner has pointed out that the schedule, overall, is decent this year.
Auburn will be better this year.
Though that’s not saying much.
Editor of Run the Floor
by Michael Rogner on Nov 10, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
They're bound to be better.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Well, we have Misty, Florida and a shot at UConn (early tournament) OOC
I think our schedule will be plenty tough, if we pull out the w’s
Princeton, UMass, Auburn and Loyola Marymount form a second tier…
by CelticPride on Nov 11, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
fantastic article
the right amount of solid info and humorous (albeit true) asides
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Great article, MRogner, quite hilarious.
If you haven’t enjoyed a Tomahawk Nation live thread for basketball then definitely come by. Inside you’ll typically find…at least three fans giving up on the season…
LOL
Free Market Anarchists do it voluntarily.
Nice write-up
But I don’t get the part about Pierre Jordan dishing passes to R Carter. Jordan is a senior which means he’ll be gone if and when Carter plays for GTech, right?
He redshirted when he and CS were freshman, so he should be a RS-JR
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by Mannieblunts on Nov 10, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Ahh..
ESPN fail, they list him as SR on the roster page.. plus I figured if he had graduated and didn’t have to sit out a year, he was a RS-SR. Forgot he came in with Chris
GTech is perfect for him
Undersized guard who doesn’t do anything well. He’ll fit right in. (Still can’t believe IMAN got drafted BEFORE Singleton)
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by Mannieblunts on Nov 10, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
as a knicks fan
i can only say , neither can i…
D’Antonio has no use for players who hit corner 3’s and bees the only 2x ACC defensive POY
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by Mannieblunts on Nov 10, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
actually - cs would be a great fit for dantoni (sorry if my sarcasm detector is off)
he’s a versatile defender who can guard bigger men on defense -
& he’s a respectable distance shooter – so he can force their big man away from the rim on our end opening up driving lanes and reduce help from their big man (read shot blocker)
he’d be like a taller s. marion
iman is actually a horrendous fit for us –
he’s a superior athlete, but he can’t shoot from distance –
and he’s not a good decision maker w/ the ball, so you can’t run the pick-n-roll w/ him – so i don’ think he’ll ever get any run for us
i really think this pick signals the end of dontoni’s era in nyc –
melo is a poor fit for dantoni, and w/ only one year left on his contract, i think its a clear sign that management wants to move in a different direction..
^^^Reason #45784 why the NBA is in a lockout
and may never come back
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by Mannieblunts on Nov 10, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Nice work Norcal.
I especially like the game day thread talk.
May want to throw in a comment about the few people who post “Is it time to consider getting rid of Coach Hamilton” after every loss.
Very funny article.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
HAM says 2012 is his best class ever at FSU. Truth? It seems he says this every year in HAM speak.
Seriously Turtle, Smoke More Weed
by my recollection
that is a direct insult to everyone but Chris Singleton and Derwin Kitchen in the 2008 class. that class? Dulkys (streaky as hell), Loucks (TO machine), Gibson (soft and unmotivated), and Pierre (package deal to get Singleton, so it was worth it). while all but Jordan lasted until their senior years, none have been great. and to think, he is saying that a better class than that means signing 2 relative unknowns, a 6’7" kid who wants to play PG, and a kid with talent that we hope will qualify this year? yeah, either coach-speak or a straight shot at the other kids, because there is no way this class is better than any other class we typically sign.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Can't tell, but it looks like you described the 2011 class
I have little to no info on the 2012 class, but it does seem to have created some buzz.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
the class we just signed today is 2012
and they are a PG from Alaska, a F from England, Montay Brandon (6’7" PG) and Aaron Thomas, who signed with us last year. interestingly enough, if you considered Whisnant a relative unknown and you think Space wants to play PG, it does work out to be the same (Turpin being the other unknown and Thomas being the same kid that didnt qualify)
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Okay, fair enough
Like I said, with my limited knowledge, I couldn’t really tell who you were describing.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
I believe DK was a transfer from Auburn...
by CelticPride on Nov 11, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Toney Douglas was the transfer from Auburn after his freshman season.
Kitchen’s path went UF => St. John’s => Iowa Western (only school he actually played at prior to FSU) => FSU
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Hopefully we can play a little bit of offense
I’m gonna go ahead and say it. I’m expecting a big year from Snaer. When Miller is eligible I’m hoping him and Snaer can be a nice 1-2to punch. With Bernard manhandling the paint!
Go Noles!
by flash_kiley on Nov 10, 2011 1:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Snaer actually looked
pretty good on offense Monday, albeit against GSW. As did Bernard James. If Snaer can get it going he could really be a legit threat from deep as well as a decent penatrator & would really open up the offense. Ian Miller being out really does not help us AT ALL. He needs to step it up. Dulkys and Loucks looked about the same as last year. Inconsistent with flashes of good offensive play. The defense was stellar as usual. Im really looking forward to tomorrow night against Jacksonville and Monday vs UCF. I hope we beat the &%^$ out of UCF.
by FearTheSpear_1 on Nov 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
i think James is, just by virtue of a lack of consistent 3 point shooters
that means feeding low more often, and a lot of opportunities for rebounds when we do shoot
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Snaer is a very underrated shooter
He had good form last year, but it was a little mechanical. We can expect a lot of improvement this year.
by wcnole on Nov 11, 2011 6:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we need a new FSU bball drinking game
1) Everytime the D makes a big play and forces a turnover… drink!
2) Everytime the O turns it back over and you wonder wtf did the players do all that work in 1) for…. drink!
Or really I should call this the excuse to drink all the time game
by StM on Nov 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Very nice write up. Well written and fun to read.
And I couldn’t agree more with the sentiment that we are a decent PG away from being solid, and an elite PG away from being superb. Unfortunately I’ve felt that way for the last 10 years, but I still love to watch some FSU roundball. If we can get Miller to work on the upper anal cranial withdrawal that apparently needs to occur, we still might be damned good this year.
Excellent writing, Michael.
You targeted the audience. Let’s face it, it’s football season, and for many of us, as casual fans of FSU basketball, we are hardcore FSU basketball fans.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
Grantland.com
did a pretty good piece on the ACC today…they actually wrote a bunch about FSU basketball and Bernard James in particular.
I was gonna reply something about why does Simmons have all this time to write random tongue-in-cheek statements about EVERYTHING
And keep track of all his random memes for the past 20 years. Then I noticed that somebody else wrote it, and my thoughts changed to, “So why does this grantland thing exist and why does it get ad space on ESPN”
Great article
and yes, Bernard James is a complete beast. I loved watching him do work last year, and we are going to need him to deliver again.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Didnt know about Turpin's dad...that is awful
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Nov 10, 2011 4:20 PM EST reply actions
Little guy with the headband?
Thought you meant the walkon, AJ Yawn.
Hamilton also won’t be replacing Williams as super-drunk-at-a-frat-party-est.

And you’re wrong about 3 fans giving up on the season each game. It’s just me giving up on the season at 3 different points each game. If I wasn’t an FSU fan I’d NEVER watch an FSU game.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
lol. I took my brother and a friend to last year's game at Ohio State in ACC/Big Ten Challenge.
We had great seats about 6 rows from the floor, center court.
My brother’s friend said he wanted to assassinate me for taking him to the most boring athletic contest he has ever been to.
Free Market Anarchists do it voluntarily.
he graduated
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
This has so much win and I barely follow basketball. Wait, are you making fun of me?
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
Did the article that Bud tweeted from SI ever get posted as a fanshot?
I don’t think I’ve seen it elsewhere — very high praise for what we DO like about the program. A sadistic analysis of the elite defenses in the nation from last year… of course, with FSU coming out on top.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1191988/index.htm
That article was written in the future?
Did I read that right?
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 10, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently so.
Quick… check to see if there are any hyperlinks to scores… we might get Biff-style rich.
by arrdub on Nov 10, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

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