ACC reverses field after intense criticism: Bradham hit was legal
After intense scrutiny over the preposterous explanation of an egregious missed call, the ACC has pulled an about face and has ruled that Nigel Bradham's hit on Laron Byrd was completely legal.
Hear Michael Kelly (ACC associate commissioner) on Jeff Cameron.
Here is the video of the completely legal hit by Bradham that saw Bradham flagged and ejected from the best game of his career:
Here's the statement from the confernece:
By Brandon Mellor on November 14, 2011 5:58 PM | No Comments | No TrackBacks
Statement from the Atlantic Coast Conference:
The Atlantic Coast Conference Office has completed its NCAA mandated review of the play that occurred at 1:58 of the 4th quarter of the Miami @ Florida State game in which Florida State's Nigel Bradham was flagged for "Unsportsmanlike Conduct- Targeting an Opponent."
Plays involving unsportsmanlike conduct and player safety have been an increasing point of emphasis within NCAA rules based upon the American Football Coaches Association and NCAA initiatives implemented to reduce the number of concussions.
Rule 9, Section 1, Article 4 of the NCAA Football Rules states: "No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul." A defenseless opponent includes a receiver whose attention is focused on receiving the ball. If the officials deem a foul flagrant, the offending player must be ejected.
Officials are required to make instantaneous decisions during high-speed game action. The officials ruled that there was question as to whether contact occurred to the head or neck area of Miami's #2 and that the action was against a defenseless player. When there is question as to the specific area of contact, in accordance with NCAA rules which requires officials to err on the side of player safety, Unsportsmanlike Conduct must be called.
Following the required video review by the Conference Office, it has been determined that the contact made by Florida State's Bradham was not to the head or neck of the receiving player nor was it flagrant. The play was a legal hit and no further action will be taken by the Conference Office.
Many have been calling for the firing of ACC Head Official Doug Rhoads. This might be a step by Rhoads to save face.
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When I do a crappy job at work I get FIRED and REPLACED.
Isn’t that how it works?
by PJB10c on Nov 14, 2011 6:11 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Depends on how many times it happens, and if there is a papertrail.
by jasonole59 on Nov 14, 2011 6:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No paper trail for this douchers
just lots of video evidence.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Nov 14, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
After further, further, further, review?
by Littoral on Nov 14, 2011 6:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You must be talking about the 4:00 review of the first offensive play of the game.
If it takes that long to find indisputable evidence, the play should stand. Thus, the phrase “indisputable evidence”. If you can’t find it after the sixth time watchin the replay, it’s usually not there. But, of course, they did. No wonder Joyner spiked the ball after the pick in the endzone. Not saying it was right, but I understand.
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2011 9:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did you listen to the radio interview?
Mike Kelley clarified that the computer used for reviews wasn’t working properly during that review (they mentioned this a couple segments after that drive during the game too) and that the replay official “was convinced” to overturn it after only 30 seconds of watching film. He wouldn’t offer a direct opinion or even his interpretation of the rules on that one, so I still label it BS.
replay isn't working, wouldn't they check that extensively pregame, who would check that
Until someone corrects me more ACC incompetence.
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 14, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
right.
I think they came back in the 2nd half and said for like the whole 3rd quarter that the computer was completely off even if they wanted to replay (I’m not sure how they called for a replay on the 1st play if the thing wasn’t working…). The machine probably got sick of the incompetence it was subjected to and shut itself down.
I'll buy them a DVR box
Anyone at home saw that was a catch, fumble and TD.
by jmnpb996 on Nov 15, 2011 3:22 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If they couldn't watch a replay,
shouldn’t the play in question stand as it was called, since there is no way to overturn it via review showing indisputable evidence?
The officiating was terrible in that game – I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned that yet.
My first bit of Noles gear was a Zubaz hat... man, I wish I still had that hideous hat...
by NorCarNole on Nov 15, 2011 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ya it got pretty ugly our there
BUD ELLIOTT HAS AN EGO PROBLEM.
by Old Buc on Nov 15, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Success!
I was over the missed call and was actually hoping our incessant pissing would get us kicked out of the conference known as acc
Saw Peter Warrick play once. The rest is history...
I'll defend the ACC a little here. Or at least us staying in the ACC.
To me, if anything, the reversal here would seem to indicate its better to stay in the conference and try to fix things, rather than switch conferences (assuming we had the choice).
For some reason, people seem to think that if we, say, switch to the SEC, we would all of a sudden be getting all the breaks from the refs. We could go there and come to find out we get hosed WORSE by their refs. No reason to think we’d be welcome with open arms over there. Grass is always greener and all.
I’d rather be one of the big dogs in the ACC and push for changes rather than get to the SEC and be told “Welcome to the conference, now watch us screw you.”
I love HEATHER COX!!!
Bear in mind, I was responding to polk's comment about hoping to get "kicked out
of the ACC." The oft-used phrase about the grass always being greener applies with regard to our school’s conference affiliation. Anyway, my position is not to defend the ACC, its to defend FSU’s current conference “situation.” Those are two different things.
I love HEATHER COX!!!
Good point but have to concede the grass may very well be greener
by stevegrizzle on Nov 14, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
And stems....
Just sayin.
2011........ The ACC will begin to once again witness the power that is FSU football!
It's not that the officials will make bad calls FOR us.
It’s that ACC officials are THE WORST year after year. And the calls will be more even.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
The acc has made it clear
Thay they want to be a basketball conference
BUD ELLIOTT HAS AN EGO PROBLEM.
by Old Buc on Nov 15, 2011 10:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wow, I've never been so dissapointed with college football
Between Jo Pa, ACC officiating in general and now this.
What a corrupt bunch of people, it makes it hard to watch football
Disappointed.
I agree NolePatrol. It gets worse. Some punk felon who kicked a defenseless US Marine in the head repeatedly….will win a National Championship this year. Sickening.
GO NOLES!
FEAR THE SPEAR!
>>>--------,,,-----/>
by fsutampaguy on Nov 14, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Who are you referring to?
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 15, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
The LSU QuarterBack.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
Not to mention last year's GIANT whitewashing of Cam Newton's
Pay to Play. the NCAA shat it self on that one. Not only that but he won the Heisman.
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
Hard to issue penalties against a program when you can't find any evidence to support the allegations.
Especially not after looking for 13 months.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Pffft.
NCAA has very weak investigative power. And both the NCAA and the SEC completely thumbed their noses at possible penalties against them to preserve marketability.
The NCAA created an INSANE and indefinsible loophole about parent/player awareness of being shopped (which WAS proven as it relates to Miss St), while the SEC completely ignored its own rules that explicitly mandate that a parent/guardian seeking benefits makes the player ineligible.
That reminds me of a joke
One night, a policeman sees a guy on a sidewalk, on his hands and knees, obviously looking for something. The policeman says, “Hey buddy, what did you lose?”
“My wallet!” says the guy.
“You sure you dropped it here?” asks the policeman.
“No, I dropped it over there in that dark alley,” said the man.
“Then what the hell are you lookin’ here for?!?” says the policeman.
The guy says, “Because the lights better here.”
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
The call on the field stands...
(2 minutes later) The rule was misinterpreted.
These guys need to learn the rules of football and really step their game up.
Thanks a lot ACC.
How about an apology
To Nigel Bradham? They wrongfully ejected him, a senior, from one of his last games he’ll ever play at Doak Campbell. At the very least an apology is warranted.
They need to apologize to my wife, while they're at it...
I need vindication in this matter, too.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 14, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
There are some jokes that really should be off-limits.
But what do I know. I’m clueless, right?
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 15, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
How was that not a clip on B.Werner by #66 at :03 in on that play?
If there was anything that could qualify as a “flagrant foul” on that play, it was that clip. Not only that, but if the hit by NB13 was legal, then the pass was pick off by ED93 (trivial, I Know). The Refs had not so completely, and badly screwed a play up since, the 2011 Miami @ FSU game; when they called a “Safety” on E.J. Then spent forever confirming the call on the field with instant replay, only to come back and say “Oops,We misinterpreted the rule”, and “It’s 4th down at the 1 yard line”. At least they admitted their ignorance in time, so as not to affect the game. That play was bad, but not as bad as the 1st play from scrimmage in the 2011 Miami @ FSU game. The catch that was then fumbled and picked up by LJ20 and returned for an FSU Touch Down, that they reviewed and somehow found indisputable proof to overturn.
At least when they are making mistakes, it is not at, or on; pivotal points, or plays in the game.
This game against Miami was perhaps the most poorly officiated game I have ever seen.
I lost track of how many times I saw the Miami OL move before the snap, or how many times I saw someone get held. On top of this being the most poorly officiated game I have ever seem, this year has been the most poorly officiated string of games that I have ever seen.
Am I just getting old and crotchety, maybe a bit of senility setting in. I am only 38, I think, that’s to young for that. Right?
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 15, 2011 4:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for:
The Refs had not so completely, and badly screwed a play up since, the 2011 Miami @ FSU game
and
but not as bad as the 1st play from scrimmage in the 2011 Miami @ FSU game
Have to agree on the clip to Werner.
That wasn’t legal, was it?
No. OLs are able to block in the back (or wherever) within a yard or so of the LOS,
but that was about 5 yards into the backfield. Should have been a foul.
Eventually they'll get sick having to admit they screwed up
And just call the game straight the first time
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Nov 14, 2011 6:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can't call the game straight if its a matter of incompetance
But public apologies after every atrocious performance should at least draw more attention to the situation and hopefully get the bad ones fired or retrained.
I find it ironic that you would spell incompetence wrong.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
My grandfather suffers from that.
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
Lol
This action I approve.
"alot of people dont realize that FSU is about to TAKE OFF" - Telvin Smith
by numberonenole on Nov 14, 2011 7:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've got to say something about Nigel. He's taken some knocks around here at times, and I must say that...
…he has stepped up his game this year, gotten better as the season has gone along, and has really played some of the best ball of his career. And Jesus, he’s offered a couple of the nastiest hits I’ve ever seen in my entire life this season :)
by lawdy15 on Nov 15, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, this^ is very true.
At the beginning of the year, I was yelling at the T.V. “Sit him down, he is hurting the team.”
Now it is the other team he is hurting, and all I am yelling is “Ooooooooo, Damn that must have hurt!”
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 15, 2011 4:26 AM EST up reply actions
It didn't look like Nigel was going to leave the game.
He had a “Na, I aint goin go no where!” kind of look to him, as he just stood there. I don’t ever remember a player taking so long to get off the field, and not being belligerent about it.
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 15, 2011 4:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think Jimbo and others were telling him to stay on the field
Hudson finally yelled at him to run off and let Jimbo sort it out.
by CCDFSU07 on Nov 15, 2011 7:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have no idea how he didn't throw a punch
That one ref was in his face and getting nasty. I can’t say I would have left as quietly as he did.
Well that explains the call, what about the ejection?
I get the ruling that if there is any question about the hit placement then it must be called a personal foul. This is what the ACC is using to protect the refs in this case. Saying that it happened so fast that there was question causing them to have to call the foul. Well, what about the second part of the foul where they ejected Bradham? If your defense is that the refs were unsure if the hit was legal or not and therefore had to call it, then how the hell do they then say it was flagrant and eject him for something they are not sure of? If your not sure something is a foul then it isnt flagrant, period. I love how the ejection was completely left out of that statement.
by BhamSeminole on Nov 14, 2011 6:23 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Thank You! Rec
I have never seen anyone get tossed out of a game for that. It would have to be completely beyond flagrant to throw someone out of the game. If that was the rule, why didn’t they toss out the two Oklahoma players who hammered Kenny Shaw? Or on Greg Reid when he clocked that Maryland player? That pissed me off more than the stupid call!
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
I sent emails, and I made phone calls to the ACC office....I'm still pissed.
How about some admission of guilt? How about an apology to the player? What is going to be done to ensure this doesn’t happen again? Any discipline to be handed out to the officiating crew?
Seriously.
They not only DIDN’T apologize, they make the excuse of “officials are required to make instantaneous decisions during high-speed game action”. This is a sad excuse for an apology to a kid that’s trying to play his senior season and get a job at the next level.
Selgy
I buy the excuse for the call. The ejection was required if they were strong in their convictions, but I still view it as very wrong.
The main issue is whether Doug Rhoads actually told Corey Clark and others that the ACC stands by the call and that it was a head/neck issue. There’s some disputing that.We shall see.
Follow @TomahawkNation
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
I'm sick of apologies
Get it right the first time.
by BostonNole on Nov 14, 2011 6:23 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Wasn't even an apology lol
They just told us what we already knew (the hit was legal) and that they mercifully will not pursue any more action against #13.
What was so great about this is....
I have sooooo come to expect this crappy officiating that is so key SOMEWHERE in our games…my wife was in Vegas, and I had her put a grand on Miami to cover cuz line was too big, and if nothin else, officials woud F#CK something up/backdoor coveer!…sure enough, like clockwork, will take my $950 profit…and run to the bank….at least these predicable shi##y refs paid for my drinks for one nite! AND we won…so suck it ACC!!! MORAL of the story, bank on these HORRIBLE calls against FSU and at least make some money off of them!
"In today's football...you just aren't going to be able to do that anymore"...that's all that needs to be said...give them pillows and tickle feathers out there
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
Those sumo wrestling balloon suits would work
All players would be nicely padded.
Drops, fumbles, and stuff might drastically increase, but hey, you can’t have everything.
not if we put velcro on the ball and their hands
maybe a spot on their chests, for the big fellas
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
This is good not because it clears Nigel, but because it increases the awareness of TV announcers and outsiders that the ACC referees are incompetent and may lead to more people questioning questionable calls.
While this may not be unprecedented, it is not the norm and could result in more pressure being placed on the ref’s to get the call right and call a fair game.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
completely agree...
wish Jimbo would take a small fine and complain about the refs..I would be willing to donate to a ref complaint fund.
Never work Retail!!!!!!
by phi*tau-nole on Nov 14, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
On the other hand
There is a very real possibility that FSU forced this statement from behind closed doors
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Nov 14, 2011 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jimbo's salary
should more than afford him the ability to pay a fine. This US Senate type collegial BS just doesn’t hack it. It won’t get any better if you just turn the other cheek. How would you feel had we lost that game?
Turn the other cheek, You don't think he discusses this with ACC officials?
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 14, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know of there is a correlation but it seems like it has gotten worse for FSU since D Hart left.
I know Tobaccy Road has total disdain for FSU, but at least Dave Hart would give them a fight. I think they look at Spetman and just laugh.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Nov 15, 2011 7:12 AM EST up reply actions
Think it's more due to us having an old HC who didn't want to fight those fights anymore.
Since Jimbo’s from the SEC, where fights like this about officiating are routine, so he’s more than willing to take it on.
It’s SOP to him.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Does Jimbo have direct contact with ACC league officials re officiating or does he have to channel it up thru the AD's office??
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Nov 15, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Think it's officially channeled thru the AD's office.
But the football coach still drives the situation. If he doesn’t want to fight it, we don’t pursue it.
Have to remember, we went from a HC in his upper 70s to a HC in his 40s only 2 years ago. Bobby wasn’t fighting those fights anymore toward the end. Jimbo is now, and getting as many apologies as we have from the ACC regarding quality of officiating is a HUGE sign of progress. If this keeps up, the ACC’s going to fire its head of officials. Jimbo is clearly making an impact.
It makes me wonder just how grating it was for Jimbo to watch Bobby neglect the program and the kids in it. This kind of stuff should be routine for a big program, and it wasn’t there for a long while.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
I'd love to have heard that phone call with Coach Fisher
“You either issue a public retraction on that call or I’m putting Coach Trickett on the phone!”
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
by GonzoNole on Nov 15, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jimbo does make a lot of money, but shouldn't he be allowed to keep it?
After all, he’s got a sick kid with a rare disease. Treatment for that gets expensive real quick.
Besides, there are official ways of dealing with bad officiating. Namely, you let THE SCHOOL send out formal complaints to the ACC backed with video evidence. This kind of thing is everywhere in the SEC-Florida sends a video with calls they question up to SEC HQ every single week-and now that Jimbo has established an SEC program at FSU, we’re going to be seeing a lot of it here, too.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
True dat
I want the ACC refs to become the symbol of incompetence and blowing calls. Kind of like “pulling a Munson.” It’s already begun. Ole Dinich dedicated a lot of her horrible content today to the puke inducing officiating.
Gimme some sugar, baby.
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Nov 14, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna be honest here, Pac12 is still worse.
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Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
how is that even humanly possible?
Seriously, I would think the ACC officials maybe get 30% right.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
My bad, now that I think about it this was, what...MAC officials or something like that?
Guess we haven’t completely set the bar in the ACC, but Saturday was damn close.
Does the PAC-10 have some specific screw ups that are noteworthy, or just the body of work stuff?
Are they not even aloud to tackle out there Bud? That is the only step left.
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
They are still allowed to tackle, for now.
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2011 9:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pac Twelve defenders don't know how to tackle
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 14, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
lol all this reviewing....
reminds me of the game when it took 5 mins to rule it an incomplete pass, not a fumble…
I dont know about you guys, but I smell blood in the water on tobacco rd. I hope Rhoads gets fired and officials learn the lesson to call a good game against fsu, or risk losing your job.
Never work Retail!!!!!!
by phi*tau-nole on Nov 14, 2011 6:23 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
If we get anything out of this
maybe it will mean we get some calls to go our way this weekend.
consistently is what we are looking for.
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 14, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ironically, I blindly thought this earlier in the season...
Frustrating this is it get worse cuz’ now I watch more closely, and the missed holds on our dline, blocks in the backs by opps. defending punts, and other obvious penalties are laughable….I sit here w/ my 12 year old and replay the plays on TIVO….and let him call the 3 to 4 penalties not called on virtually EVERY play….its like a drinking game, I just give him a quarter for every blown call he sees and I am about to pay for four yrs. at FSU JUST based on that alone!
great idea!
“its like a drinking game, I just give him a quarter for every blown call he sees…”
My 10 year old was doing that in the stands. And, explaining the game to the ginger headed “wasted” (in my son’s words) fella that couldn’t seem to understand what was going on.
Vindicates Fisher taking the high road.
by Littoral on Nov 14, 2011 6:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Fisher (and Hudson) are much better men than myself. I'd have been Gene Hackman in the "throw me out of the game" scene of Hoosiers.
When they tossed Nigel, they’d have had to take me with him, because I’d have thrown crap everywhere on the field and motioned for them to keep replaying it while I showed my a$$ to the world.
Jimbo is a better man than me, without a doubt.
THIS. Exactly this.
I know he should take the high road, but if I were SURE it was a legal hit, and he was after he saw the review, I’d have been ape sh
Reminds Me of the Saftey Reveral
Never know when the final answer will come. I think we need another review of his reversal.
Im more interested in what they say about the ScoopnScore.
Think this is a deflection so they do not have to answer further to any of the other calls
Can we get miami's TD off the board?
That ball was intercepted when bradham knocked it loose. The drive should have ended there and gone down in FSU history as one of the greatest defensive plays – huge hit against Miami and a heads-up dive by a DT to kill the drive and momentum. This is the game of the big plays that never were.
by Sabon on Nov 14, 2011 6:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
Hah
I took Miami to cover just based on ACC refs and laughed all the way to the bank…if theyre gonna suck that predictably, I am going to at least make some money off it! Love my Noles, but their bias is so preditctable at least they can pay for my drinks!….AND of course I won!
by gotbbux on Nov 15, 2011 5:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought the SAME THING. I thought...you know, of all the big hits you see over and over, this one is now tainted, and not rightfully so. How ridiculous.
IMO, this was right there with the Roscoe Parrish hit and Barrow/Vanover meeting for biggest hits of all time in this series.
I don't think I've ever read a more left handed, mealy mouthed admission of guilt in all my life!
They spend almost the entire news release making the case about vicious hits to the head and neck upon vulnerable players, then say “but oh, by the way, this really doesn’t meant the standard.” Is EVERYONE in that bush league an incompetent?
hurts their integrity if they str8 up admit it...
instead what they did is say they are trying to protect the players.
Never work Retail!!!!!!
by phi*tau-nole on Nov 14, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Weasel wording a statement is what hurts their integrity and credibility.
They need to DEMONSTRATE to their stakeholders, which includes the fans, that they take the matter of incompetent officiating seriously. Unless they can send that message their credibility is but a fond memory. (Some resignations, firings or at least suspensions would help send that strong message.)
by Dauntless12 on Nov 14, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds more like defense of the call to me.
The ACC is saying that in reviewing it after the fact the hit is not illegal, but in defense of the refs and their duty to make split second decisions on the spot quote the rule that essentially states when in question the call goes to the offense.
As I said before, if NB uses proper technique their probaly isn’t a flag even thrown.
by hideout on Nov 14, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Ejection
was still ridiculous. I can understand the flag, given speed and impact, Hell I heard the hit in Pensacola.
by RANOLE on Nov 14, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right on.
The ejection was a result of the perception of the hit being illegal and Byrd being in process of catching the ball. Reffing any sport isn’t as easy as it looks. There’s alot going on and alot to keep track of simultaneously. It looks really easy but if you’ve ever tried your hand at it you know it isn’t.
by hideout on Nov 14, 2011 6:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Completely agree
I don’t see how you can throw him out, especially since I can’t remember another player who has been thrown out for a hit
Have you really been trolling everywhere?
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
by Miaminole on Nov 14, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Actually,
the third flag you saw on that hit had just arrived from the crew officiating the Wake-Clemson game. So, no matter what….there was going to be a flag.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 14, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Proper technique?
He did what he was taught to do.
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Nov 15, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Stop trying to save face
We told you that you were wrong yesterday, yet you still grasp for straws.
Reading my posts is a privilege and I will ban anyone who disagrees with me from the Internet for life.
Thanks, ACC
for ruining our chances at numerical symmetry. 23-13. That would’ve left 62-10 and 38-7 for the Cavs and Gates.
#A-holes
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 14, 2011 6:39 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Has anything like our scoring 'consistency'
ever happened? Out side of the early days when 7-0, 7-6, 10-7 scores were the norm.
Thanks Bud
but I think everybody here knew it was a legal hit…just kidding with that. Officiating in this conference is just pathetic. I could buy the flag b/c the game moves so fast and that was a BAMMMM hit, but the ejection was total bs.
Just as an aside did the Big East borrow ACC officials for that Syracuse- Toledo game with the made missed extra point. Maybe it was a preview for them as to what to expect in the ACC.
What I don't get
is that Byrd was down long enough for the refs to see what exactly Bradham did. Instead of just guessing, why not go to the replay booth (they had no problem doing this earlier) and deciding if they should throw the flag or not.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
You can't review penalties.
Reviewable Plays in NCAA College Football:
Reviewable plays governed by a side line, goal line or an end line include:
a. Scoring plays, including a runner in possession of a live ball breaking the plane of a goal line.
A pass ruled complete, incomplete or intercepted at a side line, goal line or an end line.c. A runner or pass receiver ruled in or out of bounds. If a runner is ruled out of bounds, the play is not reviewable.
d. Recovery of a loose ball in or out of bounds in the field of play or an end zone.
e. A loose ball touching a side line, goal line or an end line.
Reviewable plays involving passes include:
a. A pass ruled complete, incomplete or intercepted anywhere in the field of play or an end zone.
A legal forward pass touched by an ineligible receiver.c. A legal forward pass touched by a defensive player.
d. A fumble ruled on the part of a potential passer. (Note: If the on-field ruling is forward pass and the pass is incomplete, the play is not reviewable).
e. A forward pass or forward handing ruled when a runner is beyond the line of scrimmage.
f. A forward pass or forward handing ruled after a change of possession.
g. A pass ruled forward or backward when thrown from behind the line of scrimmage. (Exception: If the pass is ruled forward and is incomplete, the play is not reviewable).
Other reviewable plays include:
a. A runner judged to have been not down by rule. (Note: If a runner is ruled down, the play is not reviewable).
A runner’s forward progress with respect to a first down.c. Touching of any type kick by any player.
d. The number of players participating by either team during a live ball.
e. A scrimmage kicker beyond the line of scrimmage when the ball is kicked.
f. Clock adjustment when a ruling on the field is reversed.
g. A fumble recovery by a Team A player during fourth down or a try and before any change of possession. No other plays or officiating decisions are reviewable. ncaa.org
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Figured this was coming.
Can they throw a flag and then get together and decide? They did that on the Reid PI call that they flagged but then said uncatchable. Seems very baseball-ish to me to have a questionable call happen and leave it up to the refs guessing when they have the technology at their disposable to get a better view, and a better call.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
And it's not like they're disrupting the flow of the game.
99 times out of 100 the players that got hit are down long enough for the refs to get something that’s better then a guess.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I agree, but that's the rule.
Imagine if penalties were reviewable Saturday’s game would have taken 5 hours. Not that I have a problem with the concept, but you really have to draw the line somewhere and hope your ref’s are competent.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Which in our case they are def. not.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Agreed
but I think when it involves a player getting ejected and penalized over a GUESS then it should be reviewable.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
To clear up my point
usually flags aren’t thrown based off guesses or what the refs thought they saw. So rarely would a penalty go under review.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Officials are taught to not call it a penalty if they didn't see the whole act
When in doubt, wipe it out.
These guys have too much ego and have lost their fundamentals. The best of the best get to the nfl. Unfortunately, the small officiating associations that result from conference only officials lends itself to a good-old-boy network made up of guys know guys and not guys who consistently maintain the highest levels of performance.
by dale gribble on Nov 14, 2011 10:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like you have a little experience in the reffing world.
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 14, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently that's not the case here.
I think it says above, even if the play is in doubt throw a flag. Thats in the gotdayum rulebook! smh
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Here
When there is question as to the specific area of contact, in accordance with NCAA rules which requires officials to err on the side of player safety, Unsportsmanlike Conduct must be called.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I think that is the most tremendously dumb-assed wording I can imagine.
I hope the coaches who supposedly “demanded this rule be enacted” get together during the off-season and re-visit the issue.
This needs to be removed from the rulebook
or they need to be able to review these calls. Otherwise you end up with situations like this.
Review the calls.
You have to have that in there as a disincentive to cheap shots/genuinely malicious hits. But if you’re going to write a novel explaining how hard it is to make those calls on the field, rely on the technology to assess these fouls appropriately.
College coaches need to be able to call X number of reviews per game, and, in addition to that, the booth should be responsible for reviewing any play that leads to a score or turnover, as well as all plays in the final 2-3 minutes of each half.
then where the EFF was this rule or the refs applying it...
when Kenny Shaw was hit, carted off and removed from the field in an ambulance after an extremely violent hit? Not only no flags for “player safety” but no review of whether it was a catch. No review of anything. Jacka$$es!
In doubt, yes
As in "I saw the whole hit, contact was very close to the neck so I’m dropping my flag. " or "I saw a huge hit out of the corner of my eye and I saw the receiver get destroyed. Looked like it might have been above the shoulders. But I can’t drop my flag because I didn’t see the full hit. "
Unfortunately it appears the Backjudge was closer to the second scenario but threw his flag anyway, as evidenced by him reporting to Flanagan that bradham “launched” when he clearly didn’t.
by dale gribble on Nov 15, 2011 8:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's all on Flanagan
When the side judges and everyone comes together and one guy goes “Jeff, #13 launched himself at that guy,” then Flanagan’s gotta have a long and hard discussion with that official something like, “You understand that you are subjecting this senior linebacker to ejection from the game and possibly giving him cause to be suspended from his last home game as a collegiate player?” And when the official replies to Flanagan, “Well duh, I mean, Nigel was still on his feet after he made the hit, obviously he put all of his energy into jumping off the ground and spearing the poor kid,” the last word should have been “You idiot, I hope you get fired tomorrow.”
Actually
The fact that Nigel stood over him should have been a solid clue that he DIDN’T “launch” himself. Seems like when you launch yourself, you’re not likely to end up on your own feet…
Football makes replay more of a hassle than it needs to be
Here is how to make it simple. 2 or 3 officals in a booth watch the replay before the next snap if there is something that needs to be addressed they call down and call for a full review. Do this right and it might add 4 or 5 mins to a game.
The other thing that needs to be done is add freaking sensors to the ball and field.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
by TheJim on Nov 14, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
MAKE EVERY PENALTY THAT CHANGES THE SCORE REVIEWABLE
It will never happen though.
by stevegrizzle on Nov 14, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a good idea.
Ergo, as you note, it’s not likely to happen.
Where's the apology, ACC?
When FSU does something you don’t agree with (the FSU women’s soccer team in the ACC tourney last year), you force us to issue an apology.
When your incompetent officials don’t know the rules and thereby potentially alter the outcome of a game, you give us nothing.
Wonder what the ACC office would say about the penalty had Miami recovered the kick, scored, and won the game.
by NolesFan8 on Nov 14, 2011 6:51 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Hey, do you guys remember when hitting someone was legal?
That’ll be what we’re all saying in about three years.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
Truth.
They’re doing their best to turn football into a game of pussies.
by seminoleballer on Nov 14, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
But we hit those hard
I fail to see the correlation
"I spent 90 percent of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted!"
by JaviLouis on Nov 14, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If the 2003 Stanford Samuels hit on Roscoe Parish were to occur today....
The refs would call a personal foul, eject Samuels, cuff him and then lead him away to prison without benefit of a trial. He’d be doing hard time in Raiford to this day.
by Dauntless12 on Nov 14, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I completely understand the crackdown on viscious hits to the head.
Have you seed the recent data on cronic concussions? It is scary and affects everyone.
This however, should not have been called.
Just when we thought it couldn't get worse
apparently the ACC is now saying we have to spot UVA a touchdown because of the Stanford Samuels hit.
It’s taken this long because of the reviews and subsequent overturns.
by Nole2005 on Nov 14, 2011 7:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
No worries.
They’ll declare that they misinterpreted the rule right before kickoff. Of course, the game will then be delayed as they try to figure out how to remove points from the opposition’s slot on the scoreboard as opposed to adding them.
Replay on Personal Fouls
They need to change what is a reviewable call in the offseason. And not just the ACC, but everybody. Everybody saw Fisher pointing and screaming for the official to look at the “JIMBO-TRON” to see the replay that would clearly show the hit was legal, it was made with a shoulder, well below the head a neck area, and he in no way launched himself. The cowards wouldn’t even look at the JIMBO-TRON. If the NCAA would allow these plays to be reviewed it would go a long way in helping determine whethere there was an actual foul or not. Given the speed of the game and severity and ferocious nature of that hit it’s real easy to throw the flag now that football is a sissy sport with all this protect the player crap. An offical review of plays such as this can at least be a step in the right direction to getting the call right on the field. This was a big swing. Instead of an INT, it was 15 yards which led to a TD for Miami bringing them close enough to try an onsides kick. This is the complaint and suggestion I will be bringing to the ACC and the NCAA…to make personal fouls reviewable if deemed necessary. Bradham’s legal hit definitely fits the bill in that department.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 14, 2011 7:13 PM EST reply actions
You need to have a standard for review of fouls or you will have the same problem
Every foul that changes the score or possession should be reviewable. It would only add at maximum 1 or 2 reviews a game and fix a large part of the problem. The second part of the problem obviously is relying on the reviewer
by stevegrizzle on Nov 14, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Give the coach the ability to have 1 or 2 reviews a game
A coach should be allowed to use it for these very purposes! This was a game changer. If we are goign to use replay then use it appropriately.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 14, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
At least the yo-yos in the booth (McDonough and Millen) stated the call was bogus.
Maybe ACC executives get together and watch the controversial calls and laugh. Maybe it’s funny to them and they put a reel together to enjoy over cigars and scotch. I’m not sure. But in my line of work a similar critique would be the source of intense embarrassment and shame. Of course, you need to have a sense of personal pride in your work before emotions like shame or embarrassment are possible. I’m not sure that element exists at ACC HQ.
Even if it's not reviewable, I've seen them confer
after a flag was thrown and pick it up and have the ref announce that there is no penalty. Couldn’t they have conferred with the refs in the replay booth. Not an official review, but a “hey what do you see”?
A few comparable hits have been mentioned, but I haven't seen this one. Greg Reid against UF last year, backing up XR27
http://youtu.be/acAtugxuEtY?t=4m14s (start at 4:14)
This hit occurs at a nearly identical point, Greg hits the guy at basically the same point with nearly the same form. The only differences are: XR’s arm got in the way, it’s more Greg’s upper arm than Nigel’s shoulder, and Greg was going the same direction as the receiver instead of colliding in opposite directions (which caused Byrd’s head to be rocked back by Nigel’s hit). Otherwise these hits are nearly identical in form (to user “hideout” who thought these are poor form tackles) and intent (to jar the ball loose while another back already is tackling/defending), but because of the violent appearance of one, we had a flag called and a player ejected.
Here's an idea
When a defender is approaching a WR from the backside and the WR is looking for the ball, and is therefore “defenseless,” the defender only needs to two-hand tag the WR in order to “tackle” him.
That way, defenders don’t have to worry about hitting hard enough to take the WR down AND whether or not they’re hitting too hard. That should stop many of these vicious hits on players who aren’t looking and can’t brace for the hit.
It can be called the “touch, down” rule.
This was a 30-13 blow-out if we were Miami homers and took off the kickoff return for a TD.
Then add in the momentum FSU would gain from that TD off the fumble, or if you’re an FSU homer, the TD on the kick return and you have a score very much like last year’s game. TN takes homerism out of most of its articles so we will be conservative and say this ABSOLUTELY was a 30-13 blow-out.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
how to clean up ACC officiating
The only way to clean it up,is for the power brokers, in this case ESPN/ABC to tell the ACC they will not continue to pay top dollar for poorly officiated games. This will get the ACC’s attention and they will take action. Until the ACC is told it will hit their pockets, they could care less.
Just wondering...
does ESPN/ABC really care about the quality of officiating. I mean, as frustrating as it is to watch, are we really going to stop? I won’t. I’ll piss and moan and scream and yell but I’m still going to tune in and at the end of the day, does ESPN/ABC really care about anything else?
even they require "officials to err on the side of player safety"
It still does not excuse the fact that they ejected Bradham. A flag is one thing but ejecting a player is a whole other story.. Screw them!
1 - 2 Jimbo's coming for you, 3 - 4 Gator’s better lock their door, 5 - 6 grap your crucifix, 7 – 8 Muschamp better stay up late, 9 - 10 never sleep again!!!
The def sucked...
I’m not going to beat a dead Byrd anymore but they def suck. Especially when it takes then 4 minutes to review a play, like the first play. If it’s truly “indisputable video evidence” why did it take so long? There should be a time limit for each review. If they can’t come to a conclusion in 60 seconds or less they should not be able to over turn.
Never scare a magician, he might poop your pants.
by NoleFear on Nov 14, 2011 8:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Title should be "the Ref def sucked"*
Never scare a magician, he might poop your pants.
by NoleFear on Nov 14, 2011 8:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is my exact problem w/ today's game....
Everyone wants to “Err” on the side of caution and just throw flags just because someone gets hit hard… IT’S FOOTBALL!!! If you throw a dumb A@% pass in the middle of the field, w/ defenders in the area, then the ref’s and everyone else should expect a car collision at that moment….. Also even if you just throw a flag for a personal foul penalty; if you think it is an ejectable offense, then the play should be automatically reviewed to determine if the play was indeed an ejectable offense or not… Don’t make the situation worst by turning a bad call into an even more controversial situation….
by zone3nole on Nov 14, 2011 8:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
AMEN 'NOLE BROTHER
I saw this coming, three years ago when everyone kept complaining about the concussions happening in football. While we all agree that it’s a shame when players get hurt, did those in charge have to water down the sport? Really, no clotheslines, head slaps, stickum, horsecollars and now hard hits. Someone please tell me how a team is suppose to “defend” the opposing team?
And where’s our apology?
"There's always opportunity in everything. I saw him, I laid the wood on him and he went to the sidelines looking for his mouthpiece. That's how that goes."
"You win the game. You find a way to win. That's part of athletics. Everyone wants you to be pretty. Everyone wants you to be perfect. Competing doesn't work that way. That's in the movies. I keep saying this isn't entertainment. It's competition, and there is a difference. In entertainment, you script it, you set it up and a guy makes the big play, the heroic play. He throws a TD or makes the big run. This is real life.
Very true
but kids can swim, run track, play tennis, golf, baseball, basketball etc. Football hurts.
I’m glad that I only have a daughter because I would be very conflicted about having a son play football. On the oher hand, about having a daughter…
If the issue is so serious as to warrant this kind of officiating, ban the game.
Don’t dumb it down to the point where it resembles a ladies quilting circle at the local Methodist Church.
Agreed
hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
by lawj on Nov 15, 2011 3:33 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
You know what I don't see anywhere
Besides an apology, I don’t see the ACC or NCAA offering any kind of solution to the situation they’re presenting this as. As far as I can tell, they’re saying any violent hit (legal or otherwise) is going to get inconsistently flagged and players ejected and short of tackling people from the knees down, there’s not a thing anyone can do to prevent this from happening again.
Screw you, ACC.
Dan Patrick: "Is Ponder a good name for a quarterback?"
Christian Ponder: "Why? Because you say I overthink things? is that what you’re trying to imply? As crazy as it sounds, my mom’s maiden name is actually SuperBowlWinner. Isn’t that crazy?"
DP: "Now is that hyphenated?"
CP7: "No, it’s all one word."
No matter what the ACC says, that hit is going into FSU highlight reels until the end of time.
Everybody relax, I'm here.
by NOLEmercy3 on Nov 14, 2011 8:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes!
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 15, 2011 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
In last year's peach bowl (chicken bowl)
Greg Reid definitley launched himself at Marcus Lattimore and knocked his ass right out of the game.
I think the difference is that Bradham is much bigger and Reid is small. Therefore, Bradham gets hosed and Reid (thankfully) is a hero.
Dear ACC,
We’ll continue to call out your dishonesty. You won’t win. Ever. So, next time you want to send your lap dog Doug Rhoads out to defend a bad call and lie about it, realize that we live in an era of DVRs, youtube, ebays, and interwebs. We’ve already reviewed the video thousands of times, from every angle, and read every bit of the rule book. Your expertise in Monday is no longer required. We just expect honesty.
Oh, and don’t make us order the ACC office pizza and Chinese food. We can do that, too.
Warmest Regards,
All of Us
Football is my favorite show.
by coonhound on Nov 14, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
The "%%%% you" has already happened
This is the “strong letter to follow.”
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Way to jar that ball loose, Nigel.
F the refs!
by NoleySmokes on Nov 14, 2011 9:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
the irate fans in section 37
was that you Dauntless, in the front row, yelling the very thing that I was thinking but didn’t want to yell b/c of the young girl to my right?
simple solution:
penalize the offense for running crossing routes. Since the governing body is hell-bent on regulating fb to death, they may as well penalize the side of the ball that sets these types of collisions up.
Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.
You know, most of the force was created by Byrd
Bradham was just the immovable object in the equation.
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Nov 15, 2011 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
That, I believe is very true.
It was like Byrd ran full speed into a cast iron statue of Mr.Bradham; that was strategically placed just outside the right hash mark, at about the 9 yard line by Coach M.Stoops right before the play in question.
What are the odds of that?
When ahead never let up.When behind never give up.
by Chief Pit Bull on Nov 16, 2011 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
So let me get this straight
The officials do a shitty job throughout the game, the head of officials for the ACC (a BCS conference) clearly lies in his initial statement, and then the conference backtracks on that statement and all is supposed to be right with the world? I wish I had a job where I could consistently do a shitty job, make up reasons to justify my shitty performance, then come clean and get to keep my job. Must be nice.
What about:
1) The clear fumble for touchdown on first play of game that was called back?\
2) The fact that none of the officials (either on the field or in the booth knew the rules on the safety call? The coach had to educate them.
3) The “roughing” the kicker call that “running into the kicker” at worst?
4) The bogus hold on Wilder on the kickoff return?
5) At least one of the “roughing the passer” penalties was ridiculous?
6) Numerous holdings/tacklings on Werner/Bradham throughout the game?
7) A helmet-to-helmet contact against Miami earlier in the game that wasn’t called?
8) Other stuff I am sure were f’d up that I didn’t see because I was at the game and didn’t have benefit of replay on tv?
Any word on any of these?
by Noles32 on Nov 14, 2011 11:04 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
3 is wrong apparently by the rule.
Follow @TomahawkNation
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
You've discovered the modern rule for success:
1. Set the bar low by consistently underperforming.
2. Jump over the bar once in a while by perfroming at a level of average competence.
3. Everyone will pat you on the back for an outstanding performance.
4. Get contract extension while emtions are high.
5. Rinse and repeat.
Different decade, same results.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 15, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
I can buy the "call being made in real-time" argument.
But, the call, as made by the referee, was that Nigel “launched himself” and “lead with the helmet”…and he did neither of those things – as the replay showed and as is now admitted. It’s like they pulled some validation of a poor call right out of their Caracas on the fly. It’s as if the hit became an urban legend right there on the field between the actual hit/flag being thrown and the official call being made a few seconds later.
by manicmusician on Nov 14, 2011 11:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
anyone notice
in the first three seconds of video jenkins throws miller to the ground like a rag doll
Am I the only one that noticed
That the score was 23-13 (another duplicate score) when the blown call was made? The game would have ended at 23-13 had the correct call been made.
by Widespread Seminole on Nov 15, 2011 1:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The Rule is Flawed in General
Now don’t go postal and blow up about all the other bad calls, etc. I watched the same game and all the rest of the FSU games this year. I watch 5-6 games every Saturday for conferences all over the country. Believe me there is plenty of missed/bad calls to go around in all conferences. I am not addressing all those or even the ejection call as bad as it was. The root here is the first part of the call that led to the ejection call. If you fix that, then the ejection call never happens, INT and game changes all the way around.
Now that being said, I have a friend who is an ACC official and a great guy. We had a good discussion about this call yesterday and he made some good points from their perspective-
The major part of this problem is that the rule takes almost all of the choice out of the officials hands. The rule is worded so that it makes it a “if the defensive player might be even slightly possibly be guilty, then the official must throw the flag and the player is automatically guilty and must be punished to the full extent with no possibility of review or over turn of the call!” The wording in the rule forces the officials into the position of having to call the foul even if they are not sure it actually happened and they cannot stop it or undo it once called and it is all based on a play that took place in less than one second real time.
I have seen this foul used correctly several times this year on truly defenseless players – anyone see the hits on the Stanford WR that is now out for probably the rest of the year? I have also seen this very call go this same way it did Saturday in Tallahassee (minus the ejection) at least 4 times I can immediately cite this year. In the ACC, PAC12, Big12 and SEC. So this is not an ACC issue! This is an NCAA issue! In all 4 of the instances I recall, the hit resulted in a turnover that was given back to the offense and thus surely impacted the outcome of the game. In one instance the WR caught the ball on a crossing route and was running toward a LB that dropped to hit the WR below the waist. The WR tried to stop and his feet slipped out from under him forward and he was falling backwards. The LB did hit the WR helmet to helmet in a very hard hit. resulting in a fumble recovered by the defense. But that hit took place about 2-3 feet off the ground, not 5-6 feet. Looked very bad in real time and at the time I just I knew it was an illegal flagrant hit and should have been flagged and I think every official on the field threw a flag. But slow motion replay revealed it was as I described and the PAC12 office also confirmed such on the following Monday. Sound familiar?
As a lover of the game and acoach, I do like the rule and we should protect the players! I personally do not like to see defensive players make big hits like this without wrapping up the offensive player. I do not teach my players to make a tackle in such a way that can leave the defensive player standing and the offensive player on the ground. If Nigel makes the hit just as hard and wraps the guy up and tackles him, I really doubt you see the flag. In fact I have not ever seen this flag on a hit where the defensive player wrapped up the offensive player. I have only seen it on a big hit without the wrap up.
The real root problem here is with the implementation of this rule and the lack of choice the wording of the rule gives to officials. Then it compounds the issue with the complete inability to stop and review the call and get it right at the time it happens. This is an NCAA rule, not ACC/SEC/BIG12/PAC12. The NCAA has screwed this up and it needs to be corrected in the off-season by making it a reviewable call with the same requirements as any reviewable call. I am not saying every flag should be reviewable, just this one. This call is never a minor issue and is always a bang-bang play that can change a game. The NCAA and every fan should want the players protected, but it should never have been implemented in a way that does not provide a process to ensure it is the right call!
by SCNoles on Nov 15, 2011 1:49 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Good post
Basically this call must be subject to review. Otherwise the rule puts the officials and the defensive players in an untenable position.
Before reading all of this, I felt that the officials compounded their mistake by ejecting Bradham, reflecting a level of certainty about the call that surely didn’t exist. However, if the rule requires the ejection, that argument is moot.
Of course none of this excuses the ridiculous reversal of the fumble on the first play of the game. That was atrocious.
And I don’t understand why we don’t get more calls for holding (and “blocks” in the back) on our DEs and DTs, though it does seem that in general officials tend to miss this or let it go more often than they should.
You tell your friend I think his buddies deserve to be thrown off a building
I apologize for this tactless post, but i am so sick of the nonsense. He may be a great guy, but as a whole, they are woefully under prepared.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
Justified
I think as an official you have to throw a flag here. It happened so fast. Before seeing the replay, it could easily be mistaken as a foul, I did. I was already yelling then I saw the replay and started yelling the other direction. All calls should be reviewable! If they were the Reed would have the pick.
I think we're overlooking the bigger issue here:
Miami v. FSU is still the ACC’s marquee game. It gives the ACC it largest national share of TV and is an important PR event for ACC football— especially at a time when so many other conferences are working to expand and sweeten their TV deals as the ACC would like to do.
Given that, you’d think the ACC would be careful to put its absolute best crew in front of the nation for this game.
Maybe it did…. which would further prove what a pathetic, basketball-oriented football league this is.
Different decade, same results.
Eh, don’t agree with that this year
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't this be objectively determined?
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was the highest rated game of the weekend, and top 3 on the season. Should have put any other crew besides this one on it, at the very least.
Believe I saw somewhere that the same group was involved in basically all of our ACC losses over the past 2 years… is that right?
it's going to be hard to determine because the stats won't show how many viewers started the game
and then left when the officating sucked the life and rythm right out of it.
Different decade, same results.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 15, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
With a nationally-televised epic fail and retractions issued by the ACC for the officiating, I don't think this crew's gonna last too long.
Just saying.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
I think you are assuming that
the ACC cares that their officials are corrupt and useless.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
We know they all care about money.
It is in EVERYBODY’S best financial interest to get these problem soved and quickly.
Let’s start with the refs. ACC crews are hired by bowl games, and get paid a nice little sum for doing them. If the officials in the conference get a rep for being incompetent and making bad calls, they don’t get hired, so they don’t get paid.
No bowl games=no extra Christmas money=Junior doesn’t get his GI Joe with the Kung-fu grip=frowns all around
Plus there’s also the aspect of the quality of the product. Bad ACC officiating perpetuates the perception that ACC football is not worth watching.
Bad football=bad TV deals=Member schools fall behind in funding=frowns all around.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

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