Florida State Film Review: Cavs 14 - 'Noles 13
by Bud Elliott on Nov 23, 2011 3:18 PM EST
in FSU Football
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PrintA bit different version of the film review this week, as I had some technical issues while reviewing the film. Instead of getting the play-by-play, you're getting my notes. I'll have the play-by-play stuff in the gap between the UF contest and the bowl game. Trust me, the loss will still sting.
Offense
No player played perfectly on offense. Coach Fisher said that the overriding concern was lack of attention to detail, and that it was on him. He's right on both counts.
As far as how the game was called, I actually thought it was a much better called game than Miami. And I sympathize with the difficulty in having great plays taken away for phantom garbage (the 50+ yarder to Green, anyone?). But I do want to see more rollouts for EJ. He's still quick, even if he is scared to take a hit with the shoulder.
FSU had two opening drives which worked, but which yielded no points, mostly because of the awful calls by the officials. Yes, Bobby Hart got beat and EJ cannot fumble there, but are they even in that situation if a horse collar and late hit are called on Rashad? No.
Anyhow, if a defensive coordinator gets worked on his first two drives, yet gives up no points, he'll consider himself lucky. And he'll adjust to what he knew was working, even if the scoreboard didn't say so.
EJ had a mental meltdown on simple, simple stuff. It wasn't quite as bad as I initially thought, but I don't think I've ever seen him produce the combination of missed checks, mental errors, lack of intensity and inaccuracy. It was as if he was throwing the game (I know better, as EJ is a great kid). But something was up there. Playing against his hometown team? Letting the shoulder injury go to his head? He missed a ton of checks. He repeatedly did the opposite of what he was supposed to do on the read plays. He was wildly inaccurate, even on completed passes. It was just some really dumb football. And yet, FSU lost the game by one point. If he's just a bit better, FSU wins. Let's hope we never see that EJ again. Fisher needs to get him ready and perhaps he needs to be shot up and told that UF is the last game of the year for him. Cut him before the bowl game, rehab him and get him ready for Spring. If they determine he needs it, that is.
The offensive line was below average in this game, and that was a disappointment as they has been soldiering through all the injuries and mixing and matching personnel. Bryan Stork played very well and there is a noticeable difference with him at center. Zebrie Sanders was ok, but not great. The holding on him was complete BS. Jacob Fahrenkrug was terrible, and that was so awful to see as he had been improving. His pass work was horrendous. Spurlock didn't do much in terms of movement in the run game, but he did have a few nice blocks on backers. Garrett Faircloth played decently, and sprung some of the long runs. Bobby Hart is going to be a great right tackle for FSU, but he is making a lot of rookie mistakes. That should be expected. Five false starts, however, won't cut it. It's what happens when the coaches whiff in recruiting the previous two years, then have a bunch of injuries mount. The offensive line isn't quite as bad as some are making it out to be, but it certainly didn't play well. And yet, FSU lost the game by one point. If they're just a bit better, FSU wins. And EJ doesn't trust them right now, nor should he.
FSU is paying for next year's offensive line success via growing pains this season. Also, if the opposing offensive line got called for holding like FSU's offensive line does, we'd be watching a six-hour game.
The receivers were disappointing in this one. The routes were not run precisely like they'd been for most of the year. Fisher stated that FSU had to waste a timeout in the final drive because a receiver ran an 8-yard route at five yards. Rodney Smith needs to catch the touchdown pass at the end. Bert Reed does need to knock down the ball if he knows he won't get OOB. And he cannot get caught at the one. Just not going to cut it. But that's Bert's career. Flashes of promise quickly stomped out by a lack of dependability and focus. This group should have been better. And yet, FSU lost the game by one point. If they're just a bit better, FSU wins.
The tight ends were a disappointment. They do not block worth a damn. Christo Kourtzidis could get a lot of playing time if he bulks up over the summer.
And finally, the backs. Fisher said he thought they left about 100 yards on the field with a few missed cuts. I thought he was joking. He wasn't. In the preview I said UVA allows a lot of big plays and makes a lot of tackles for loss. FSU had opportunities on well-blocked runs to bust two for at least 35 yards a piece, and likely more. I said FSU would have to make UVA pay for doing certain things. The backs did not. And Wilder easily has the first down if he follows Lonnie. Yes, the backs ran for 100+ yards, but leaving that much out on the field is not a good night. FSU lost by one point. If they play just a bit better, the 'Noles win.
Short Yardage plays were on everyone, from the offensive line (one missed block), to the backs (missed block and missed hold), to the tight ends (missed block and dropped pass). And I am really, really tired of Jimbo using the tight ends in short yardage. Ja'Baris Little sucks. Beau Reliford is wildly inconsistent. Nick O'Leary doesn't block well. Why, why, why are you insistent on going with heavy personnel? Please stop doing this. Spread them out on short yardage. The above has been our most consistent gripe with the staff on the year.
But they have tried pretty much everything when it comes to playcalls on short yardage. Points for creativity?
Short yardage shows me EJ is hurt more than they let on. He used to be a short yardage animal.
I also think that if a coach knows his offensive line is struggling, he needs to call more plays that have little chance of losing yards. Make the RIGHT call. Don't kick from the 3. Run it up the gut 4 times in that one series. Your chance of getting in is great.
Fisher continues to put FSU in bad spots by denying them the expected points relative to field position derived from going for 4th and short opportunities.
Defense
Virginia had the ball 10 times (not including the give ups before half and the kneeldown). Stoops got the better of UVA's OC 8 of 10 times. FSU forced UVA to execute high degree of difficulty plays and did not give up many cheapies. The defensive line played quite well, particularly Carradine, Werner, Jenkins and Dawkins.
The linebackers were decent, as were the corners. The safeties turned in an average game, and I wonder how much of that was Joyner's injury.
Give credit to the UVA QB for making some very difficult plays. The defense was not unsound. if you're going to surrender points, you want them to be tough points. UVA got them on 2 of 10 drives.
Special Teams
Not the best night. Obviously, the block in the back negates a return. This time it looked legit (last game it was not). And then Dustik Hopkins misses an easy field goal. He's 0-2 in his career on do-or-die field goals. Both easy ones. Both at home.
Coaching
Did coach Fisher try to play the seniors more on senior night? If they earned it in practice, fine. If not, then it was a mistake. He said "Jabaris got his touchdown catch." in such a way that I believe he was trying to force the ball to the seniors. Some of these seniors should not be on the field. Just win the game, coach. Your offense is way too banged up to try to do anything but be effective on each position. Forcing the ball to undeserving players should not be an option.
Attention to detail failure on a massive scale falls on the coaching staff. It's on Fisher, Coley, Dawsey, Trickett, Gran, everyone. Not one unit played with even average attention to detail. People say Fisher's plate is too full during the game. I'm not sure about that. If it's too full anywhere, it's during the week. The problem isn't playcalling. It's attention to detail during the week. Or at least it was this week. If this continues, he'll need to get an offensive assistant he trusts. Not to call plays, because he's fine calling plays from where I sit, but to help crisp things up.
I hope you're getting the point of this. If the refs don't rob FSU of 80 yards in the first two 'Noles drives, FSU wins. If any offensive position played slightly better, FSU wins. But it was the perfect storm of poor mental play. And that can't be happening.
Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving.
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Sooo.....You're saying "if they're just a bit better, FSU wins?"
>: )
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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except the one play
that wouldve won the game for us.
@andywittman
by andyprocombat on Nov 23, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
What is Joyner's injury exactly?
It looks like he keeps retweaking a hamstring maybe?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Im glad he came back in and played.
He looked like he was hurt badly at first but he seemed ok for the rest of the game.
its been like that 2 weeks in a row
Same thing happened vs Miami. He didnt play for a good portion of the 1st half and then appeared again in the 2nd half.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 23, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Someone told me he was covered in ice in a way in which that person had never seen
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Nice job as always.
You’ve been very fair, objective and insightful all year. Can’t thank you enough. No problems here with yourmild and accurate criticism of Fisher and staff or your take on EJ.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
by fmnole on Nov 23, 2011 3:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Ready for the Wilder @ RB project to end, and the Wilder @ LB phase to begin
by az5950 on Nov 23, 2011 3:40 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Just heard a rumor today that that phase is already beginning
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Can you add anything to this?
by TimScribble on Nov 23, 2011 5:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not much really
It was third hand from a player who might have been just spouting off, but I was told he’s taking reps at LB.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I'll add
That no one else I know who talks to people has corroborated it, so take it for what it is worth, which isn’t much.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I think its Plausible
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
by Legal_Seminole on Nov 23, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
If it happens this spring, I'll give plenty of praise to Gran and Fisher
for giving him a shot and ultimately doing what’s best for FSU and him. If they drag this out another year….screw them.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 24, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
BUT HIS TUTOR WON'T LET HIM OUT AND HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY WORK SMH
His twitter is the polar opposite of the former Lonnie tweets, world….
Not Going For It On Fourth Downs
Do you think the struggles on third-and-short all year are causing Fisher to not risk going for it on fourth-and-short? I think if we were more successful in short yardage situations he’d be more willing to go for it on fourth. Seems like we went for it more on fourth last year, but maybe I’m imagining that.
I gotta agree with Bud though...
Spread them out and pick up the yardage. Not to compare NFL teams to FSU, but the Eagles and Packers do this ALL of the time. If we dont pick up these short yards situation by just road grading teams, then get a guy in space or roll out EJ.
If EJ won't run the option at the goaline, can't we sacrifice Secord to do it?
by Meehl on Nov 23, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree that we should spread it out and do something different on third-and-shorts
That wasn’t really my question. Bud said that Fisher should be going for it more on fourth-and-shorts. I was asking if he thinks the reason that we don’t go for it on fourth downs is because of our failings on third-and-shorts. We went for it 10 times on fourth down last year (according to seminoles.com’s stats) but have only gone for it 4 times this year. It seems like Fisher is willing to go for it on fourth, but this year doesn’t trust the team to get the job done.
by DenverNole98 on Nov 23, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think its the failings per se
I think its the personnel (significantly better OL last year) and sometimes I think he gets frustrated and it shows in his playcalling (FG on the 2 yard line, punting on 4th and short). If its frustrating for us as fan with limited knowledge to see this, it has to be even worse with Jimbo watching the issues on short yardage.
He played TE in HS
Dude can probably catch as well and is more physical than either Beau or Ja’Baris.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
done it twice now
Lined up like an hback
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 23, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Watch & learn Tebow.....watch & learn. #ThisIsYourFuture
Lined up like an hback
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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by DRusso97 on Nov 24, 2011 5:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
DenverNole I understood and agree where you were going the first time
Although we have struggled in 3rd and short and on the goal line, Bud made the following comment in his post about what we should do:
Don’t kick from the 3. Run it up the gut 4 times in that one series. Your chance of getting in is great.
However, Jimbo must not have that same confidence that we can pound the rock this year in these short or goal line situations. Many times we end up getting stuffed for no gain or, worse yet, frequently get trapped in the backfield and go backwards.
Four straight attempts after 1st and Goal from the three may have us looking a 4th and Goal from the eight. Stuff, stuff, loss, go for it?
C. Fisher was quoted in the paper
saying E J only made four mistakes all game. I am an old man but I have seen a lot of football, mostly FSU, over the years and I lost count of E J’s mistakes in the first half.
Depends on what kind of mistakes we're talking about here
Physical mistakes? Sure, he probably only overthrew four wide open receivers.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Coachspeak.
He’s protecting EJ.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'm confused on the attention to detail thing.
Are we saying that he doesn’t have enough time in practice to pay attention to the detail because he’s too caught up in figuring out the general suck that is our offense right now?
So if we could hand over practice to a competent OC he could take the time to nitpick all the little things. But he can’t do both at the same.
Fisher has his finger prints all over this program
I don’t think that Fisher’s just trying to figure out what’s going on with the offense but there are more duties a HC has to fulfill than an assistant coach. Fisher is involved with the defense plus has to take all the pressers. Keep in mind other coaches are not allowed to talk to the media. Fisher now has to field those questions that would go towards those other coaches so he needs more in depth knowledge of their parts.
Successful HCs know when to delegate and when to grab hold of a sitaution. This is Fisher’s second year as a HC and he hasn’t figured it out. I can’t think of a HC that called their own offensive plays while taking more than a passing interest in what the defense is doing during practice. Fisher is trying to do both and, therefore, spreading himself thin.
Great Review...
I felt pretty much the same way about everything. I think the coaches and players got caught up w/ the pageantry of it being Senior Day a little too much. The overall mental let downs were just mind numbing.
I could not believe Bert Reed got caught on the 1 yard line. Reed should’ve took a wider angle to the endzone to make sure he would get there. And if Wilder is going to be serious about being a running back, he has to have the patience and trust to run behind his blockers and not believe that he can just get every yard on his own. Lonnie Pryor is one of the best blocking backs in college period so if he can’t trust him to clearout a 1-yard gain then that’s totally on Wilder and he needs to get that checked. And for EJ to just give the ball away on that option instead of keeping it really shows that he is injured and doesn’t want any contact of any sort around his shoulder. He was very protective the whole game and that clearly affected his play. And yes I believe the injury to Joyner really cost the defense on that big play. (START KARLOS #just saying)
One thing that really bothers me however, is the lack of intensity our offense continues to show. Our defense is always fired up and ready to put on a show of force but the offense always needs to have a jolt (big play) to get into it. And if the play doesn’t workout (50 + yarder to Green denied) then the offense goes to sleep.
You lost me at "START KARLOS".....
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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lol...
Maybe not start but he should definitely be 2nd string so he could see more of the field. We can’t just depend on Joyner to cover everything on earth. If he gets injured (which he did) then what??? Parks and Moody aren’t going to catch anything behind them…
What 31 loses to Karlos in pure athleticism (not much--kid is pretty phenominal), he MORE then makes up for in knowledge.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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Now if we're talking about Brooks starting
I can get on board with that.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I don't know.
If he DOES start at safety I’d like to see him move down to corner in nickel and dime packages, that way Karlos can step on the field too.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Karlos isn't ready
yet…let him get a spring under his belt and make strides there and win the job in the Fall (hopefully)
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 23, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I say start him in the bowl game
The game experience for Los (and some other young guys) is more valuable than the outcome of a 3rd tier bowl imo
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 23, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that Los has continued to see playing time on special teams and not defense
Must suggest that he’s severely lacking something in order to play the position at this time. What that is I have no idea, but to continue to not give him even mop-up duty suggests the coaches are not confident in him. I’m really surprised he hasn’t played a good deal at this point in the season. Playing him in the bowl game at this point isn’t gonna give him much experience IMO. If he hasn’t been ready yet, I doubt that changes for the bowl.
by jenolesone on Nov 23, 2011 11:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
IMO it's normal
I can’t remember a S seeing much PT as a true freshmen… I’m sure there are exceptions, but these players are the exception.
Championship!
That's almost definitely true
But there’s no way to really tell how far behind he is at this point without playing him. If he’s awful in the bowl game it doesn’t really cost us anything. I mean I’d obviously like to win whatever bowl we end up playing, but would rather know if he’s a viable option at safety going into the spring
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 25, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Starting Karlos over Joyner isn't an option
I hope he starts over Parks/Moody in the bowl however.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Maybe if the team/coach ever went for the kill and put teams that suck down Los could get some reps.
I doubt it
Jimbo has a real problem playing backups. Even in games we have crushed the opposition in we haven’t seen backups, neither last season or this. They get like a series at the end.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
It's depressing but true.
Los, Luc, and several others should be getting a lot more playing time but then again most games are in doubt till the late 3rd or 4th. This is due to the sissy play calling IMO. Both throws deep last week had td written all over them….glad we only attempted two, huh? It was there all game! Bench Bert, he brings nothing to the table. Sit Little and never play two tightends….ever! Run the zone stretch since it is the only thing that gets yards and dear God from the 1 yard line run run run run.
Thanks as always for the great work, Bud.
Also, thank you for not going into the game on a play-by-play basis. I do not think I could make it through the first half without bleeding.
You hit the nail on the head
In both the wake and UVA games (and to some degree the Clemson game) if we make just 1 of about 20 plays (not counting bad officiating) – on both sides of the ball – we win those games. Contrary to some who are criticizing the play calling, I think Jimbo has done a good job there. Are there some plays I would like to see called differently, yes. But I’m sure, in hindsight, Jimbo would to. Where I do think he needs to be smarter is playing guys (like little, relief ore and reed) who, if they have shown one thing over the course of their careers, it is that they non-dependable. Play the best guys, period. If they are freshman, so be it. I would rather watch freshmen makes these mistakes for the first time, than watch these guys continue to make them 4 years into their careers.
I hated the playcalling at the goalline when it was 1st and Goal
And even then we have a touchdown if Beau catches the damn ball.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
And even then we have a touchdown if Beau catches the damn ball EJ doesn’t throw a half-ass ball.
It goes both ways.
Football is my favorite show.
reminded me a lot of the incomplete pass to Forston v Miami
which lost us the game (again).
Championship!
He made a great effort to even be in a position to catch it. EJ’s pass was a wounded duck off the mark.
He could have caught it, but EJ didn’t do him any favors.
Football is my favorite show.
He should have caught its on Beau
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 23, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
They both should have performed better
The real question should be “Would O’Leary have caught it and, if so, why wasn;t he on the field?”
Yep. You’re right. EJ’s pass was perfect. Aaron Rogers should watch and take notes.
Football is my favorite show.
No one is saying it was perfect
But not every pass thrown on the run is going to be perfect. However, he’s going to school for free to be able to catch that pass when it is thrown and hits him in the chest. I don’t care what he did to get in a position for it to hit him in the chest. That’d be like saying that a receiver who drops a deep ball has no responsibility for the drop because if he wasn’t so fast the thrown would have been overthrown anyway.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Not every catch on the run while diving is going to be perfect. EJ is going to school for free to be able to run and pass the ball. I don’t care what he did to elude the DE chasing him, he still should make a better pass. That’d be like saying that a quarterback who has an incompletion has no responsibility for the throw because Kenny Shaw should have a 45" vertical to catch that wide open pass in the end zone.
Football is my favorite show.
EJ should've thrown a better ball
But once Beau gets in position to catch it he has to catch it. Bail your QB out.
Ultimately both of them needed to be better.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Playcalling was awful there.
Call a 4 play sequence to get 1 yard.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 24, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
I've said that all week
So we’re in agreement. I’m just saying, even with how bad it was, still should have gotten 6.
Things aren’t as bad as they first appeared.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Things rarely are as bad as they seem
but they’re a lot worse than they should be 11 games into the season.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 25, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you, Bud
I think I finally have some closure…
I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game
Was Werner in on offense for some of those goal line plays? Specifically, on Little’s TD. We haven’t seen that before, have we?
by Nolesferatu on Nov 23, 2011 4:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes. He was in on the goal line offense after Bert's long reception to the one
As we have seen, Werner has good hands and is a bull. I think he played TE in HS as well as DE. I like it. Want to see them line Karlos up int eh backfield as well every once in a while.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
We use him as the third TE in the big package
Did it for the first time last week against Miami. We haven’t gone his way once yet though. Hopefully that changes this week.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Need to use him like Stanford uses it's extra lineman.
Run from the eye or pistol but forget this TE b.s. and go big o line.
Run from the eye?
Are you suggesting Frodo formation?
by NeuroNole on Nov 23, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
TDs are
Precious.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i followed Werner on that play
He ran a route inti te endzone and I think ej took a look at him, but the LB wasn’t fooled and had tight coverage.
by DCNole on Nov 24, 2011 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
And Brandon Jenkins...
is back to being our best defensive lineman/player…. He’s really unblockable on passing downs and is getting a lot better standing up. He makes a lot of plays for the other players as well…
Especially when he guesses the snap count right
Unstoppable there unless the QB steps up and scrambles for 20 yards.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Quick questions:
1. Do we have a video of the Rashard Greene holding penalty from the Virginia game? Do we know who the officials called it on?
2. Do we know who is in charge of ACC officials? Do we know his alma mater, any history of paying or accepting bribes, and the exact extent of his influence?
3. Who was the guy who said the Bradham hit was illegal, before changing his mind the very same day and saying the hit was actually legal?
Sorry, but I want to learn more about and investigate this ACC OFFICIATING, because I am seeing some very disturbing things. Honestly, this does not look random to me. I want to learn more.
Doug Rhoads is a UF Alum
and also is the head of officiating for the ACC
http://www.footballofficialscamp.com/staffbios/rhoads_doug.htm
by GoNoles2011 on Nov 23, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
UF Alum??!!
Wow. It’s worse than I thought.
That could explain it.
How much power does this guy have in choosing and directing the officials on the field for each game?
by florida dodger on Nov 24, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
More than a UF alum should have.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
When did Greene get called for holding?
You talking about the long pass early on? That was on Sanders.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I think he meant the Christian Green TD called back on holding
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 23, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't a TD.
just a long pass that was called back on a Sanders hold.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Right.
I guess I’ve just gotten so used to TDs being called back that they all started running together.
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 23, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Clemson counts as do-or-die, though
We were tied at the end of the Clemson game. UNC and UVA we had to make it or we lost.
by DenverNole98 on Nov 23, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Was just about to explain. Was still an all-time FSU moment though. Awesome.
My reasonable expectation: A competent head coach in 2013.
Agreed
Changed the whole feel of the season on that one kick
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 23, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Basically, my thought is
if you’re a Seminole, you never want the game to rest on us making a last second kick… We don’t come out on top in many of those.
Love that we're gonna do this again
After I sparked this exact same debate a couple days ago.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I COMPLETELY AGREE. WE NEED TO IMMEDIATELY FIRE…wait? what? no indigent outrage? no torches? no assigning blame beyond Jimbo needing to steer the ship better?
Bud, I’m glad you’ve returned. Someone kidnapped you and was posting on your twitter and TN account for the last two days.
It's possible Bud is emphasizing the fact that not one player stepped up to win the game.
And you can blame an entire ladder full of people for that. Maybe Bud’s leaving that up to you to decide. Regardless, let me assure you this will not be our last “Virginia” under Jimbo Fisher. And firings, retirements, other opportunities, whatever are coming. These perfect storms do not occur at big-time universities.
Happy Thanksgiving all! Go Noles!
My reasonable expectation: A competent head coach in 2013.
I agree with the major sentiment of your post,
But saying these “perfect storm” type games don’t happen at big time universities is just false. Just look at Oklahoma this year, USC against stanford a couple years back, and many others I don’t really feel like researching off the top of my head.
by seminoles44 on Nov 23, 2011 4:53 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Perfect Storm games happen every year. They happened to us during dynasty
seminoles44 referenced the USC/Standford LOL game. Pete Carroll has said that his players were sleeping on the busride to the game. FIRE PETE CARROLL
This was a "trap" game just no one talked about it.
UVA is a winner and way to solid (not good, but solid) to overlook for UF.
it was but there's no excuse for
not scoring a TD on the 1st & goal…among other things.
Championship!
There were some that we're concerned about it once the sched came out.
Alas, kool-aid is strongest after 5 straight wins.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Tell yourselves what you want.
I watch a lot of ball too.
My reasonable expectation: A competent head coach in 2013.
So, are you saying that perfect storm games don't happen to other programs?
by seminoles44 on Nov 23, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Feel free to steer the damn ship around the storm, Capt. Jimbo.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 24, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
Does he know how?
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Two Questions:
1) Does anyone believe that we should start Jermaine Thomas and have Freeman backing him??? Thomas looked very impressive and natural running the ball the last few games and it seems like when he’s in the game w/ the ball in his hands, the offense starts to move with some ease. Plus it looks like Freeman runs better backing up Jermaine than starting in front of him.
2) Did the practice interruption w/ the weather during the week throw anything off in the game??? I’ve seen reports that the weather caused big problems w/ the practice schedule but I’ve also heard Fisher say that the players had a good week of preparation anyway. We know the offense needs all of the practice it can get w/ the Oline so maybe that had something to do w/ the Bobby Hart issues and Fahrenkrug issues in the game.
I think Freeman has looked good
In both scenarios. They both tend to miss some pass protections, but all things being equal, I’d rather watch a freshman mess something up than a senior. The freshman has a chance to earn from it and make the same mistakes by the time he is a senior.
Also the senior goes down on much easier than Freeman.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 23, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm
The bad grammar actually makes this post NSFW
by Meehl on Nov 23, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
86 the "on"
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 24, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I'm still trying to figure out
how the hell Freeman was able to gets any yards against Miami with the shi**y run blocking that was displayed. No way Thomas picks up those same yards. Don’t trust Thomas in pass pro either
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 23, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Jermaine actually looked like hot garbage
He actually seems physically averse to just planting and hitting a hole. He also possibly could have scored on the 1st and Goal play if he just puts his foot in the ground and runs right at the DB. Instead he runs into Beau’s ass and falls down for a two yards loss.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Yep, it didn't look right live
Then when I rewatched it, I saw he had a seam.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Freeman had 7.3 YPC vs JT's 4.9 YPC against UVA.
by TimScribble on Nov 23, 2011 8:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
problem was
situation-dumb: 4 trips to the RZ with
1. TD
2. TO
3. FG
4. FG
plus DHop’s missed FG outside the RZ. 31 points total, we came away with 13. #FAIL
Championship!
"I had some technical issues while reviewing the film"
Is this true, or are you just making fun of ACC refs? :)
by Meehl on Nov 23, 2011 4:38 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Going to have to say he definitely gave the seniors more time.
Aside from the general pool of offensive suck, that stuck out to me in particular while watching in real time and I said the same thing that was written here. Think Fisher got ahead of himself here and I’m going to damn near have an aneurysm on Saturday if I see any of those fools be given significant playing time.
by AmplifiedJ on Nov 23, 2011 4:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I was really looking forward to comments on
that weird play where the UVA player fielded the punt in the end zone… guess I’ll have to wait.
It was one of those moments where suddenly I realized there was a possibility I’d never even thought of. I didn’t know what the rule is for fielding a punt in the EZ, because there really is no reason why anyone would do it.
Strangely we should have let him run out of the end zone, as he was trying to do… Oh it just doesn’t make any sense….
That was a good call.
If the ball carries the return man into the end zone it is not a safety. If, like JT did in the Wake game, the ball is fielded in the field of play and the return man then runs backward…that would be a safety. Same for kick offs as for punts and int’s.
SENIORS
Never ever in my whole life have I ever been sooo ready for set of Seniors to graduate and move on. Don;t get me wrong I love them all because they play for FSU, but just imagine how much better this team is without the majoirty of Seniors? (no need to name names since we know who they are). Usually you dread losing Seniors (see ponder, McMahon, Hudson), but the talent and capabilities both physically and mentally from the young guys Fisher recruited are going to be infinitely better. That still doesn;t excuse Fisher playing some of these players in crucial situations but at least we wo’;t have these same dilemma’s in 2012. I’m holding out judgement on Fisher and this staff until the completion of 2012. Anything lless than 10-2 and winning the Atlantic is inexcusable in my book. And I might even say he must win the ACCCG too, not just get there.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 23, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions
Does anyone else
prefer these thoughts to the play by play reviews? I might be the only one, but I like the game notes/thoughts a lot more.
I like the play by play
just putting my .02 in
Did you happen to glance over...
the whole “technical issues” part?
by NoleadgeIsPower on Nov 23, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
WE usually get the thoughts
He just made them more in depth this time, likely because of Technical difficulties
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 23, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I see where you're coming from.
The play by play can be a little difficult to fully absorb due to its length. There have been a couple of occasions when I couldn’t find time to read it all and a longer summary would have been preferred. That said, the depth of analysis found in the complete play by play review is AMAZING to me and can be found nowhere else. This kind of reporting is exactly what makes this site special. To be honest, you can find game summaries based on opinion anywhere.
The Bert Reed criticism
just reminds me how bad our WRs have been prior to the Shaw/Green/Haggins/Dent recruiting year.
Bert catches a lot of flak here, some of it legitimate. It seems though that he gets ripped on much more than guys like Smith, who to my eye doesn’t seem to produce nearly as much.
It was disappointing to see BR get caught at the 1, after the longest gain of his career.
The play at the end of the game— I put that on Fisher. IMO that was a stupid call.
Rodney Smith has somewhat disappointed me this year.
Shows flashes of being a legit #1 WR at times, and some times he just completely disappears. It seems like he started the year pretty strong, but he’s pretty much disappeared in the 2nd half of the season. Very frustrating. I have no idea what he was doing on that 4th quarter end zone pass. If he attacks the ball like a 6’6" 215 WR should, it’s a TD. Instead, he waits for the ball to fall into his hands. Even if he had stronger hands, it’s a TD. He has improved some elements of his game, but he still has a long way to go with only one year left.
Through the first few games
Smith was on track for a great season, 1k yards, etc
Then, Green had a couple great games and looked on track for a great season, 1k yards, etc.
Now, no one is on track for a great season or 1k receiving.
No way did Rodney
make a play on the ball like a 6-6 WR should. Running through the endzone waiting to catch the ball in stride instead high pointing the rock like he did in the Clemson game last year (While being covered by a corner who’s currently playing in the NFL) just isn’t going to get it just like you said. Was impressed with him early on after reports of one of his patented lazy streaks during fall camp. I’m just waiting for the day that Greene, Green, and (Prayerfully) KB are our top three WR’s
by westcoastnolefan on Nov 23, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, Rodney should have caught that last pass from EJ.
That was a pretty good ball from EJ. He at least needs to make a better effort. He’s got to go up and get that ball at the highest point.
R Smith's first half of season
While he did have some big plays the first half of the season, let’s not forget his inability to line up correctly against Oklahoma cost us in some crucial situations. I agree he could have made a play on the last pass against UVa, but give him credit for the big catch against Miami.
Like most positions.
We don’t get them the ball enough. Even with leads we sit on it. Look at plays per game against just about any team.
Thanks Bud for another great write up!
I really look forward to this piece every week, in fact I enjoy the notes even more than the play-by-play. I understand, and agree with, your point that we lost by one point and if ANYTHING went right we would have won. However, I can’t help but feel off put by this notion as well. We were 18(?) point favorites at home? I feel like we should be able to weather our off day against an 18 point dog. On the flip side, if Hopkins makes that kick or Bert doesn’t get tackled, etc etc, we do survive and the point stands.
Just watched the replay
Jimbo is full of it about wasting a timeout because a receiver ran an eight yard out instead of five. We used the timeout on a play where EJ was looking at inside receivers running all slants from what I could tell (not to mention hurrying because on the previous play we ran quick game and threw a hook). More of the quick game garbage that got us in huge trouble on that last drive.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Nov 23, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe the backs left 100+ out on the field because he benched our best running back for a large portion of the 4th Q
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Nov 23, 2011 5:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Short Yardage plays were on everyone, from the offensive line (one missed block), to the backs (missed block and missed hold), to the tight ends (missed block and dropped pass). And I am really, really tired of Jimbo using the tight ends in short yardage. Ja’Baris Little sucks. Beau Reliford is wildly inconsistent. Nick O’Leary doesn’t block well. Why, why, why are you insistent on going with heavy personnel? Please stop doing this. Spread them out on short yardage. The above has been our most consistent gripe with the staff on the year.
Had the SAME problem in 09 and he had no problem spreading teams out in the redzone. Ridiculous that we keep running out stuff we know doesn’t work.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Not sure if DK or Bud noticed
But on a passing down late in the game we used Carradine at DT along with Werner, Jenkins and Jernigan. Rocco ended up getting a long scramble out of it (I felt Carradine was held, but it was not even close to egregious and those are the only ones we get these days). Interesting wrinkle.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Haha I remember that play.
Looked like Tank got dominated, but it may have been a hold as I wasn’t looking too closely and I haven’t seen a replay of the game.
He's a nice guy, I've met him
But Terrance Parks has no business being on the football field. I’d rather have Moody’s terrible angles or at least let Los have growing pains. The guy is terrible. Dropped interception, late on the TD and late on the long throw on the last drive for UVA.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Stoops basically got undressed personnel-wise on the last drive
We left in our worse pass defending LB when they went 5 wide and they burnt us. So then we pull him for smaller personnel and they go base and run right at Mike Harris who was pressed into lining up like a LB. He had an otherwise great game, but the final series was disgusting to watch.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I didnt think the long pass on UVAs final drive was Parks' fault
I though Vince was more at fault for that, never got back on his drop and Rocco threw it over him.
Vince failed to get his drop
But it’s not cover three we’re running there, even if it’s Tampa-2 the safeties have to close that kind of lob throw down. Parks (and Joyner too somewhat) were late. Now, was it a good throw? Yes. But do I expect FSU to occasionally make a better play than someone who simply makes a good one? Absolutely.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
I'm inclined to agree with this
I thought we should have called a timeout on that last defensive drive. We needed one more defensive stop more than we needed to save our timeouts. Besides, as bad as our offense looked did anyone really think there was a real chance the offense would score on the last drive to win the game?
Keep UVA out of the end zone and we win the game.
Bud, they called TWO blocks in the back
One was borderline, the other, I don’t know. It’s not the type of call I’d make, the returner made a cut that drew the defender back into a Los who was trailing it appeared when I slowed it down.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Upon rewatching
I will say, I don’t worry about UF the way I did in the aftermath Saturday night.
They are better on defense, but Saturday was our worst offensive performance of the season. Yes, we could match it, but I think the smart money is on us not being as bad again. We have laid an egg in five consecutive halves offensively. That’s not good. But once again, to assume we will continue to stink up the joint is a lot. We don’t do on O what a team must do to throttle UF. Luckily, we don’t need to throttle them, just win. Our defense, as Bud pointed out, allowed points on 2 of 10 possessions. We’ve got a good chance to stifle them as long as we can hide our LBs in pass coverage and not allow Bradham or Williams to get isolated on Rainey and Demps. Florida’s D is very good. Better than UVA’s. But our problems were largely to do with us and what appeared to be just plain stupidity on Saturday (or something worse). If we play our game and play it well, UF will still stop us. But we won’t get completely held out.
All in all, I feel okay going into Saturday as long as the O or D don’t have complete meltdowns.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
You're absolutely right about us not throttling them.
We cannot run the ball with power and that’s what you must do to blow them away. You’re also right on regarding our LBs getting iso’d against 1 and 28.
The two things we absolutely have to do on D is tackle and tackle. I’m not worried about our DBs against their WRs and I think we’ll get to the QB. If we let 1, 4, and 28 slip tackles and run free, it won’t be pretty.
My biggest concern for our O is Ronald Powell. His versatility is frightening and our tackles aren’t the greatest. The UF D is as multiple as ours because of him.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Nov 25, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
thans for the review
IF we do hire an OC, we just need a taskmaster to assure that the players are doing what they’re supposed to. Too bad Coley isnt a taskmaster or he couod to this. Something to think about though.
Championship!
by TLHWG on Nov 23, 2011 5:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
By the way
We’ve been running this set where we line up in I with the WR to the boundary side tight to the line then we motion the Tailback out for some time now. Well, we did it this time and it was first time we actually threw out of the formation and Freeman was open and EJ missed him by about 6 feet over his head. That hurt.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Wanted to point something out.
On UVA’s scoring drives they ran 16 plays for 157 yards, a 9.8 average. The first was 11 plays for 82 yards, the second was just 5 plays for 75 yards (15 yards a play smh). On UVA’s 8 non-scoring drives they ran 41 plays for 149 yards 3.5 yards a play. Other then those 2 drives the D absolutely shut UVA down.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
It is disturbing though that the defense has struggled at the worst possible times
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 23, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
UVA made an adjustment for that drive.
Rewatch that drive, Rocco played out of his mind
by jmnpb996 on Nov 24, 2011 4:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'll give him that
But why not burn a timeout and change up the defense? With the game on the line, letting UVA go 70+ yards in 5 plays (37 seconds) is inexcusable. I’m not blaming the D for the loss by any means, but if is going to be considered one of the top defenses in the nation, they cannot let that happen.
But I’m not even just talking about UVA. Oklahoma marched down the field virtually unopposed as soon as we tied the game. The offense gave us numerous chances to get back into the Wake and Clemson games, and the D consistently gave it right back.
This unit is very good and has the ability to dominate, but I’m just not all that confident in them when the game is on the line. When is the last time a Florida State protected a narrow lead?
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 25, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome breakdown, though...
I’m not sure I’d define Hopkins’ kick as an “easy one.” Looking at the flags before the kick, the wind seemed to be against him, which shouldn’t present an issue for his range but maybe complicated the kick. I also thought the periodic rain may have left the field and the ball slick, which makes kick execution tougher start to finish. Finally, the penalty that shortened the kick by five yards theoretically should have been a benefit. However, I saw Hopkins taking several minutes during the review delay lining up and thinking about that initial kick. I wonder if having the situation change on him suddenly was a bit rattling, even with the penalty moving the kick up. I thought there were several unlucky factors playing against Dustin and making it a challenging kick.
Yea that ball just hooked a bit at the end ...
Happens to me all the time on the range… but I digress, it was a heart breaker
by Tallinasty_Nole on Nov 23, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Haven't seen it (still in Africa with slow internet), but
as a former college kicker, kicking into the wind can cause those kinds of things. If the ball has a slight tendency to hook, the head wind will make it worse, so without the wind it goes through, with it the ball hooks wide left.
It looked bad off his foot to me
Not a typical Dustin kick. He’ll tell you he missed it.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Terrence Brooks
Why is Christian Jones always covering a slot reciever when teams go 4 wide. I think t. brooks should get a lot more playing time in that roll. I know he is a safty now but the times that he has played the slot he has made some realy good plays, he’s aggressive, hard hitting and brings intensity. Would just like to see him play more.
I think CJones is just playing zone in those situations
I remember that packages vs. OU… and CJones was able to fight through a block and make a tackle.
Championship!
Ty Jones
what happened to ty would like to see him get in on short yard situations. Don’t get me wrong i have faith in jimbo 100 % but how do you tell a running back to take the football to the outside on a play that you only need 1 yard. To many backs try hitting the outside on every play. During the gams you see fisher yelling at players to get upfield and get the first down, now you want a 220 lbs back to hit the outside on a 3rd and 1?
by seminole4 on Nov 23, 2011 6:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Good chance he is Marcus Sims Jr.
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Nov 23, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I thought one of Ty's qualitys was that he never got negative yardage.
Why not Ty?
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Nov 24, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
Then get him out.
This is getting old.
Short yardage shows me EJ is hurt more than they let on. He used to be a short yardage animal.
And then Dustik Hopkins misses an easy field goal. He’s 0-2 in his career on do-or-die field goals. Both easy ones. Both at home.
He’s just not clutch. (:
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I FLIPPED A COIN TWICE. TAILS BOTH TIMES. IT MUST BE BROKEN
FIRE THE SMITHY.
Meehl, just so you know, the only reason no one is replying...
…is because it’s not worth getting permabanned. I have to know though, because it may determine whether or not I sleep with the lights on tonight: Are you serious bro?
My reasonable expectation: A competent head coach in 2013.
Serious in what way?
I am serious in that you can’t judge a kicker’s “choke” factor based on a sample size of 2, especially how accurate he has been since he got to FSU. I am serious in that people who think a kicker can be judged based on sample size of two should be subtly mocked through all caps posts.
I would suggest that neither subtlety nor mocking are your strong suits.
And you’d serve yourself well not to add to your sample set.
My reasonable expectation: A competent head coach in 2013.
a field goal better not be a coin flip.
this isn’t bama
A hatch opened up and the aliens said, "We're sorry to learn that you soon will be dead, but though you may find this slightly macabre, we prefer your extinction to the loss of our job."
by Klimt on Nov 23, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
what is ironic is our offensive philosophy.
While on defense we bank on the fact that most teams cannot put together solid drives to score touchdowns. On offense we try to put together drives with 4 yard pass plays and 2 yard runs…..Irony.
We are so lucky that we didn’t throw that weak ass 5 yard out again. Should have been picked by pretty slow UVA db’s.
That's really not what we do now
That’s what we did a lot with Christian, but we do call plays to gain chunks. Our offense is just designed not to LOSE yards so as to stay ahead of the sticks.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
HARD GAME TO WATCH
Bud, you were right on! It was a perfect storm of bs that costs of a game. I know a lot of Noles are frustrated with these “storms” hitting us twice a year. Hopefully we can beat them turds and salvage a disappointing season.
"There's always opportunity in everything. I saw him, I laid the wood on him and he went to the sidelines looking for his mouthpiece. That's how that goes."
"You win the game. You find a way to win. That's part of athletics. Everyone wants you to be pretty. Everyone wants you to be perfect. Competing doesn't work that way. That's in the movies. I keep saying this isn't entertainment. It's competition, and there is a difference. In entertainment, you script it, you set it up and a guy makes the big play, the heroic play. He throws a TD or makes the big run. This is real life.
anyone else think this article should have ended with
“God bless”
Timmay style
by vickers8 on Nov 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
1st Post
Hey all. Just a quick comment re my enjoyment of this site for the past year or so. No adolescent trash talk, good info, well thought out and well written analyses => I’ve learned a lot about football! As a 26 year Seminole I appreciate Tomahawk Nation and Bud- YOU ARE THE MAN!
Fried gator on the menu for Saturday night
TIminoles
by Timinoles on Nov 25, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Welcome to TN!
Please note the rules & regulations HERE.
And remember……..all your female relatives 18-50 now belong to me.
Go ’Noles!!
>: )
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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