Grading the 'Noles: FSU 38 - BC 7
by Bud Elliott on Nov 4, 2011 3:44 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintMany of you really enjoyed this column last week, so it will become a regular feature. We take the goals from the game preview and evaluate how FSU fared. This week we take a look at FSU's dominance over the Boston College Eagles. I hope this will help people keep perspective on the 'Noles.
The defense was tremendous, so we'll start there. How dominant was this performance? Really, really dominant. I thought I set some lofty goals for this defense against BC, but they obliterated all of them. FSU has an elite defense. Whether you choose to realize this fact is up to you.
| FSU | BC | |
| Score | 31 | 7 |
| Plays | 47 | 45 |
| Yards/Play | 5.79 | 3.76 |
| FSU outgained BC by 54% per play | ||
| Field Position | Own 45 | Own 26 |
| Stats are pre-garbage time | ||
Hold BC to fewer than 4.3 yards/play before garbage time. This is a lofty goal for a road game, but BC's offense is not very good. FSU fans should not be satisfied with simply a decent defensive performance.
3.76 is well within the goal. Another dominant defensive performance.
Allow no more than 3 plays of 20+ yards. BC is not an explosive offense. More than likely BC will not be able to hit big plays against FSU unless the 'Noles are sloppy in tackling (uncharacteristic) or undisciplined and not assignment sound.
Win. FSU allowed two.
Hold BC to less than 50% touchdowns in the red zone.
50% exactly. (1/2). Well done.
Force 2 or more Turnovers. You cannot blow out Boston College without generating turnovers and giving your offense good field position. It simply does not happen due to the conservative defense BC runs.
Not two, but four!
Offense
At least 6.25 yards/play before garbage time. This is not a great defense. I don't expect perfection from the group on short rest, but 6.25 is a good goal.
5.79 yards/play is simply not reaching that goal.
I have to question if my goal was too lofty. Perhaps. But if I had set it at 6.0, FSU would have still missed it. Four days rest does not help an offense.
Then I get to thinking about all the guys that this offense has lost since the Spring, and I am actually impressed. FSU played last night without starters RB Chris Thompson, LT Andrew Datko, C Bryan Stork, RG David Spurlock, WR Willie Haulstead, and reserves Rashad Greene, OL Blake Snider and OL Rhonne Sanderson.
When you look at it like that, maybe we should be happy that the offense has scored 30 points in 6 straight games for the first time in a decade.
66%+ TDs in the red zone.
4/5 before garbage time gets it done. FSU's offense wasn't great by any means, but it did take advantage of its opportunities down close.
No more than 1 turnover. I said above that it's very tough to blowout BC without the defense generating a lot of turnovers to give the offense good field position. The flip side to that is that FSU won't lose this game unless BC's own defense generates a lot of turnovers.
I should give this a fail, because Manuel threw at least one ball that should have been intercepted, and Nick O'Leary appeared to fumble. But FSU did only turn it over one time.
No more than 2 operational penalties (false start, illegal motion, illegal formation).
Fail. The 'Noles had three called operational penalties and should have been flagged for several more.
While the 'Noles earned most everything on defense, FSU caught a ton of breaks last night on offense. An offensive effort like this might cut it against Miami, but it won't work in the Swamp.
Then again, I'm not used to analyzing a team with a defense this good. If FSU's offense played like this (simply good, but not great) in a previous year, BC would have smoked the 'Noles. Certainly not in the last decade. Film review to come Monday or Tuesday.
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Debbie Downer here
Still haven’t beat a team with a winning record. Must get EJ to play a little smarter. Defense will keep us in every game.
Don't get to choose your opponents record
You only get to choose if you blow out who you should blow out
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 4, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree.
You can only play your schedule.
by GradSchoolNole on Nov 4, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
And, like what was mentioned above, at least we have been winning by 20 plus
We'll have to wait
until Virginia comes to town to do that, I suppose! (beat a team with winning record)
Didn't Duke and NCSt have winning records?
I know they don’t now, though.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
OBR to the rescue.
I guess we could accurately say…FSU has beaten two teams with winning records. Much like the stats they keep on records against ranked/top-10/top-5 teams.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah never really understood why they do that.
Also, Alabama only has one win over a conference team that currently has a winning record. But I still think they are pretty good….
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
Yeah, but just as its good to keep your chin up when facing a tough sched, one must temper excitement when beating the dregs we’ve played. I’m just happy we’re finally taking care of business against crap ACC teams (looking at you Lost Decade).
by Nolesos Locos on Nov 4, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this is reasonable
No one cares what record the team was when we played them. It matters what record they have now. We haven’t beaten a single team that has a winning record.
That's how it works when you beat a top 25 team.
Why not the same for this?
It's just as dumb as counting a win against a "top 25" team that ended up unranked by the end of the season
Because the only top 25 rankings that actually matter are the ones at the end of the season. Plus, most teams schedule 2 weak teams in the first month of the season, inflating their record.
As an extreme example, let’s say that Louisiana-Monroe beat Grambling in week 1 instead of week 2. They would been 1-0 when they played us. Would we have counted our win against LM as having beat a “winning team” because they were 1-0 when they played us? They are currently 2-6. Of course, it would be extremely stupid to count 1-0 LM as a “winning team.” As it stands, we have not beat a winning team yet.
It’s not our fault that the ACC is so poor and we faced the only winning teams with significant injury problems. However, this situation doesn’t change the fact that we haven’t beaten a team with a winning record at this point in the season.
Disagree a bit
A team can be a legit top 25 team when you beat them, but drop out of the rankings after losing its star player to injury or something (or, simply, from losing… to you). Sure, there are examples of teams that were over-ranked and get exposed, but as we’ve seen this year a single loss can sometimes cause a slide (due to injury, damaged psyche, etc.). The end of the year is just that – the end of the year. But is FSU the same without EJ, or is SC the same without Lattimore? Plus, the end of the year doesn’t account for SOS – a legitimate #20 team with the #1 SOS likely won’t end up ranked. Etc.
Keeping track of both “records” (vs. top 25 or winning teams at the time of the games, and vs. top 25 or winning teams at the end of the season) would seem valuable for different discussions.
by Invictus13 on Nov 5, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Summed up my thoughts very well. Rec'd.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 5, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
This is irrelevant to my point about FSU
My point is that we have only beaten weak or bad teams that proved to be no better than .500
Your response that teams can sometimes have injuries that make them seem worse than they are is irrelevant because it doesn’t apply to any of the teams FSU faced.
Great stuff as usual
I missed the whole game (smh) because I was on my way back from a conference. Do you guys think that EJ being a little off a byproduct of the short week, or is it something of a concern going forward?
It looked early that they wanted to go deep a bunch like the Duke game
and as was said in the Preview, BC keeps everything in front of them. It might have been poor planning or just EJ not seeing underneath guys. Hard to say without seeing the coaches film. I’m willing to bet EJ missed the underneath guys on more than one occasion.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
Pretty good 1st half
I thought it was a pretty good first half, even though I thought EJ ran it too often (shouldn’t take that many hits). But when they came out for the 2nd half, it’s as if they didn’t even care or was motivated to play anymore. Just my opinion.
Were you surprised by that, though?
Playing on 4 days rest in Boston and the game was over halfway through the second quarter. I’ve heard some say that teams like Bama and OU don’t have this happen, but I think that’s patently false.
>>---l>
Discipline? Youth?
Not really surprised because exactly like you said- 4 days of rest. I thought we absolutely dominated BC (mostly on defense but the running game is night and day vs. beginning of season). I would just like to see us complete an entire game with the same focus and intensity regardless of the opponent. Maybe it is because we have so many freshman and sophomores…who knows.
Maybe it is because we have so many freshman and sophomores
One could argue that. I’d say it’s just a product of a bunch of 18-22 year old kids playing under the aforementioned circumstances. I wouldn’t expect any college team to come out and dominate the second half and win 56-0 under the conditions FSU played last night.
>>---l>
Running game a concern
A whole lot of the successful runs were either by EJ or by the backs to the outside. The outside runs took a LONG TIME to develop. I don’t think that’ll cut it against either Miami or the Gators. Given the injuries on the offensive line, I think it’s doing an admirable job. However, our offensive line is our achilles heel and will likely get EJ banged up again.
Can someone please explain why EJ is left in the game through the first half of the 4th quarter (and is even featured in a designed running )?
by Rose of Aberlone on Nov 5, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess they think his shoulder is fine
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Defensively
Numbers are what they are.
What my eyes tell me is, we really are changing the line of scrimmage.
That’s what I like to see, push inside.
It's what we learn after we know it all that counts. John Wooden
Makes those ends even more effective.
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I think you could really see how good the interior is
after Amp and Timmy were pulled from the game. Big difference in the middle.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'm not knocking #90. I was very happy to see him get back on the field.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, yup I think that was the consensus last night in the thread.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
that swim move
that TJ pulled on the center to get to the RB was awesome
by StM on Nov 4, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Despite his faults (Wake), you have to give Jimbo a lot of credit this year.
As an offensive coach, continuity is important and we have started 5 (5!) true freshman this year on offense. The fact that he has managed to put 30 up in 6 straight games shows a monumental coaching job by this offensive staff. Not a great offense on an absolute basis, but given the circumstances, you have to be impressed.
In light of the injury situation
I think the O has done a solid job. As Bud mentions in his write-up, they haven’t been perfect, but with the injuries they have sustained up front, I have been pleasantly surprised with their production. It helps to have a dominant defense to help the O out too.
To be fair
The offense hasn’t put up 30 points in 6 straight games. The Clemson game Werner had a defensive TD. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"the offense has scored 30 points in 6 straight games for the first time in a decade"
Any one else STUNNED by this?
I've looked at 30 pts a game as a standard for a while
ever since 2006 when we scored 30+ points a whopping three times (Rice, Duke, UVA). So I really like to see this.
I might put a little asterisk next to that "2 plays over 20"
They occurred with a 28 point lead and coincided with a complete change in offensive game plan by BC. Not an excuse, just some mitigating circumstances.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:08 PM EDT reply actions
I'll buy that
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
by FSU on Nov 4, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya Miami won't be able to pull this off
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Nov 4, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Welcome back to your normal self Dr.
Your game day threads transformations to Mr. Hyde can be quite frightening.
C'mon! I'm not that bad
compared to your average basket case.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as we're throwing out qualifiers...
I’d say BC was 1/1 (with 1 incomplete) for their red zone attempts, no?
Crediting us for a stop is like crediting NC State for that debacle last year.
I see what you're getting at
but you can’t be sure they punch it in.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Unlike the NCSt debacle
where FSU had TWO wide open targets for Ponder.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Last night? 2nd, and even with a clean exchange...it wasn't going anywhere.
So, now it’s 3rd and goal at the two/three.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Barron looked good last night?
I know it wasnt the best defensive line, but overall I didnt see anything glaring.
Palmer incorrectly pointed out that Manuel got hit early because of Barron. The CB sack was definitely on EJ and I thought early in the game, the OL did a great job on pass blocking.
Bud,
Did you ever play center?
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
by FSU on Nov 4, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem like you played
guard to me I don’t know why.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Nov 4, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow that means you and him were a good lineman
cause I believe the best lineman should be protecting the QB’s blindside. I played center, but I was really good at longsnapping.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Nov 4, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
good linemen
geez I can’t type.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Nov 4, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Only question is....
Can we depend on a QB sneak for short yardage with him in there? I really hate to lose that option if he’s just not strong enough to get any push.
This is just crazy.
You’re QB is 6’5 245 lbs with excellent running ability. You want a 6’2 220 lb safety with little to no QB experience?
Not to mention, Los has enough on his plate in learning Stoops’ defense.
CB blitz is a tough one to see
Especially from the blind side.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - GEN George S. Patton
by JaxNole on Nov 4, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
Felt like EJ looked a little lost in the first few series. Holding the ball way too long, indecisive on when to stay in the pocket or when to run. I thought he ran himself into a couple of sacks or short gains.
Another sack was when the TE (think it was Reliford) didnt chip block the end before going out. It was pretty awful.
Keep in mind, though, we can't rule out the circumstance of this being on the young receivers.
We saw at least one occasion where Goldie-Bear ran into Bert on a wrong route…. so 8 DBs covering, what, 1 or 2 remaining receivers? Understandable that you would be in a tough spot as a QB there.
As often as we’ve seen the wrong routes, in general, over the last two seasons, I’m not willing to put all of this on EJ yet.
happens a lot with EJ
looking, looking, run….er….pass….er…….check blind side……run…..er…..yeah, run.
If he would just go through his progression and plant that first foot to take off without second and third guessing he would have had 2-3 more 10-15 yard runs last night IMO. Instead we got minimal gains or sacks on those occasions. Broken plays/long pattern times dont seem to work in our favor too often
totally agree...
I counted 4 seconds on one play in the pocket and 5 on another. Decision needs to be made sooner.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - GEN George S. Patton
by JaxNole on Nov 4, 2011 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He doesn't check all the way down fast enough.
He doesn’t lock on per say, but goes through his progressions on the deep recievers too long and by the time he gets to the valve it’s too late “time to run”.
Part of this is game planning to throw deep too often, so IMO he wan’t to go there… but when they are droping that many guys that far of the LOS he shouldn’t have to go through his reads one at a time… just dump it off.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Definitely does run through his progressions quickly
It’s one of EJ’s weaknesses. Hopefully it improves as the game slows down for him. He has improved his pre-snap reads teh past few weeks so that’s encouraging
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well disguised blitz
BC really schmed the CB blitz to perfection after reviewing that play about 4 times.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
*Schemed
dammit with my spelling tonight
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Barron needs to look at the entire field to see where the blitz is coming.
As well as EJ, but Barron needs to change protection if he has too.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
no way they could tell that corner was coming till after the snap. They hid it well.
The issue is EJ never progresses to his short blind side till WAY late. Teams have noticed this and are bringing the corner on pass downs when we are on that hash.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
Need to show screen to that side to keep opposing defenses honest.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, EJ is a red shirt junior
that holds the ball to long and you want to blame Barron?
'see da broad ta get tha booty yackum, layem down smackum yackum...ho got ta be.... shiiiiiit!' 'early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise'
Kick-off Coverage
has improved dramatically this season. Has anybody had a good return against the Noles this year??? Seems like the worst I’ve seen is the other team getting to the 30-35 yard line.
You know who I see down field making plays on kick coverage is Toshmon Stevens
Football is my favorite show.
last week.
This week parks did a decent job.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
However when we receive the kickoff
it seems like the opponent is all over G5 before he can do anything; barely catch the ball ? What’s the shortcoming there?
Any nervous as hell when EJ runs the option?
He is really sacrificing his body by waiting to pitch at the last minute. You have to imagine Jimbo is seeing this and will either stop doing it or tell him to pitch it a lot sooner.
That’s the way to run it. He’s not special without his legs.
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by Bud Elliott on Nov 4, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just didn't want them running it in the second half. At all. And they did.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
But to sell the pitch he can't protect himself.
If it’s a designed QB run he can slide, protect himself, etc.
He can if he wants to. But he doesn't.
It’s up to EJ how and when he pitches it.
not true... you gotta pitch just before contact or teams will quit buying and NEVER come off the pitch back.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
He’s just not much of a QB without his legs.
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Is this an issue of evaluation? We refer to Jimbo as a quarterback specialist, but I find it troublesome that Manuel has difficulty with accuracy, reading the field, and pre-play awareness. I honestly expected Manuel to be a better passer at this point in his career but I grant that my views are slanted from watching a first round quarterback the last few years. Can Manuel grow into the complete passer that his five star status projected, or will his success at quarterback forever be dependent on the ability to run?
He’s just not much of a QB without his legs.
He’s not special without his legs.
Is this what we should expect from our future quarterback prospects?
Did you ever even play the game? I guarantee I can coach my Little League team to beat yours 10 times out of 10.
Did you ever play the game, or we’re you a soccer mom’s dream!
by Caveman Mafia on Nov 4, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t recruit EJ if he isn’t a serious threat with his legs. That’s all I’m saying.
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Where do you think EJ stands now
In terms of QBs in the nation? Obviously looking at everything he bring to the table, ie running and throwing?
If healthy there are very few I’d take over him
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Griffin
Luck
Weeden
Barkley
Jones
Wilson, R
Debatables:
WIlson, T
Boyd
No offense to EJ, but I’d take all 6 in the top column over him all parties 100% healthy. I cannot decide if Tajh Boyd would be as effective in FSU’s scheme, or if his weapons make him look that good. I think Tyler Wilson is a tremendous QB who is overshadowed like the rest of his team by the powers in the SECW
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
I dunno. QB is always one of those system specific thing. I think its hard to evaluate that without saying who you’d prefer in who’s offense.
Seminole Game Day -- "All the trash talkin' stops, when the spear drops."
by FSU on Nov 4, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I took that into consideration...
Obviously guys like RG3, Russell Wilson, and Boyd bring to the table many of the things that EJ does, but I think Luck, Weeden, Barkley, and Landry Jones are just all around better quarterbacks than EJ. IMO they wouldn’t need to use their legs as much because they could probably check down and possibly make decisions a bit quicker (which is huge due to our deficiency on the OL)
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Theres only so much that checking down to the RB every play can do for you
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 4, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ponder did just fine using the checkdown
Did you ever even play the game? I guarantee I can coach my Little League team to beat yours 10 times out of 10.
Did you ever play the game, or we’re you a soccer mom’s dream!
by Caveman Mafia on Nov 4, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I adjust what I do dependant upon who I have
I hate putting lipstick on a pig.
It's what we learn after we know it all that counts. John Wooden
Agree with 5 of the first 6
Barkley is a better pro prospect, but have a hard time seeing him succeeding if put into EJ’s situation (different WRs starting every week, makeshift offensive line, and a subpar running game). Maybe it’s just that I very rarely like Pac-12 QBs.
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 5, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone hates to hear that but
It’s the truth! EJ is valuable as of now because of his running ability and the tremondous athlete he is for his size. Could he become more a true pick you apart p[ocket passer by the time he graduates? Sure, anything is possible but even then you’re not playing to his strengths. Fact is half of EJ’s game is below his waist (NO HOMO)
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
you all are way to critical of EJ as a passer - he is inaccurate sometimes
but he is no Xavier Lee or Weatherford
I like him just fine and think he will be better next year too
I think he is reading the Ds just fine
This is EJs first year as a starter
And he has been hurt for 1/3 of the games. I think each game is a learning experience for him, and he will only get better. Also, we are playing with a beat up O Line, so people need to lay off of EJ.
No pain No gain.
He's no Christian Ponder from the pocket
I think that is what everybody is saying. I think EJ is great and like BUD says there are few I would take over him (when he’s healthy and can use his legs). But you can’t say is the kind of passer that Ponder was cause if he was he would be Cam Newton and going #1 overall in the draft.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Christian Ponder wasn't Christian Ponder his first year under center.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 4, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
How Good
was Charlie Ward at this point in his career.
This is the point in his career where FSU changed their offense..
to the then called “fast-break” the parent to today’s spread offenses. It was in his RS Jr year during the Ga Tech game that Charlie’s career took off.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Charlie
Charlie still had people holding their breath in that Junior Year, the GT comeback was my wedding day, we were all almost late…haha…I think EJ is ahead of where Charlie was at this point, Charlie REALLY exploded at this point through his senior year….if EJ does that, we are in really good shape. Charlie was a turnover machine the 1st couple of games in his junior year.
Year
Comp
Att
Comp %
Passing
TD
INT
1992
204
365
55.9
2647
22
17
1993
264
380
69.5
3032
27
4
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
Sorry, didn't think the copy/paste would be that bad
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
yup charlie was still averaging 2 pics a game at this point.
"Don't bite your friends" - DJ Lancerock
He kinda not special with them IMO.
He’s a decent player though.
Team work make the dream work
Wait, disagree. Misread that
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I think your comment above makes that pretty clear.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Special is
V.Young, Eric Crouch, Denard Robinson, Pat White Michael Bishop, Michael Vick, Xaiver Lee lol j/k on Lee. Them guys special running it.
Team work make the dream work
Different types of runners
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 4, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
As a runner those guys might've been better
but EJ is a much better passer than everyone on that list was in college. It’s the combination.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
EJ a better passer than Vince Young?
I disagree
Team work make the dream work
EJ a better passer than Vince Young?
I disagree
Team work make the dream work
I'd say it's about even
remember the awesome OL and veteran skill guys Young had. They both are about the same throwing the ball right now.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. I do.
It’s obvious you don’t think much of EJ and I really do. So, that’s that.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
E.J.‘s completion percentage at 66.7 is better than VY’s last YEAR as a collegiate QB with 65%. If E.J. can cut down on the INT’s and get the completion percentage to at least 70%, the college football world had better watch out.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Nov 4, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Take away the bubble screens and whats EJ pass%?
Team work make the dream work
You serious?
Greg “bubble screen” davis ring a bell to you? Vince Young threw his fair share of bubble screens. We get it, you don’t like EJ, but don’t make it so obvious.
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 4, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a lot of "horizontal offense" in college.
by jimmygnole on Nov 5, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or, as Desmond Howard describes it
the stretch the field horizontically.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 5, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, and I came along to ruin it for you....
sheesh. Delayed rec’d.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 5, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Since I happen to keep those stats
75% on bubbles.
64% on all other passes.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
All offenses
run some sort of screen passes, heck we were calling bubble screens like it was going out of style in 2008, Ponder’s first year as the starter. See the good Dr.’s stats.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Nov 4, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's judge when it's over next year....Vince was a great QB, but, EJ is just now getting into his own
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
EJ is the same exact player from last year
he’s not progressing. He’s good. Not very good, great, excellent, elite.
Team work make the dream work
Level of competition??? B1G>ACC if thats what you mean.
Yes he’s “good” not special.
Team work make the dream work
ACC defenses > B1G defenses.
And Russell Wilson is about the clearest confirmation of that, as far as I could imagine. Just look at the jump between any of his previous years and 2011.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/238093/russell-wilson
You don’t just magically increase accuracy by 14% and double your yards per attempt and rushing average without some change in competition level.
EJ won't get drafter higher than any of those three will/did.
EJ don’t run FSU O better than Crouch ran NEB, Denard did/do michigan, White WVU
Team work make the dream work
Great point.
Miami, Clemson, BC all had top 15 DFEI in 2010 IIRC…
VT, Maryland, NCST, FSU not far behind I think.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
If we're talking strictly about athletes than I agree
Otherwise, hard to make that case. Something about ACC membership causes teams to completely self-destruct, especially in ooc games.
by BobLoblaw113 on Nov 5, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Big10 doesn’t play non-conference games, and ACC fared quite well this year IIRC
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Not special even with his running?
Completely disagree.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you not see him break multiple tackles in the backfield...
Last game and then pick up something like 15 yards?
Or, shred a fantastic Clemson defense with his legs last year?
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
So your telling me EJ is elite running QB?
Team work make the dream work
Maybe not. But the difference between EJ with his legs and without
is about like Rocky fighting southpaw vice when Mickey made him fight righty. He’s a champ one way and average Joe the other.
Give me a Wild and Free World, by committee.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Nov 4, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But like Rocky
EJ is one tough kid either way. Some of the shots he took last night I thought would be the end of his (and our) season.
His option running is on a different level
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Nov 4, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know where EJ will rank in history with great Seminole QBs?
I do know this. Right now EJ is to the noles as P. Manning is to the Colts!
One important point that has been lost in time
is that during the dynasty years, our teams were really good during any given QB’s first year starting, but our teams were absolutely LETHAL once our QBs had a year of experience as a starter. I can only recall PT Willis being excellent in his first year as a starter and he only started his senior year.
That's because it was his last year of eligibility.
PT had to sit and watch Chip Ferguson.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of which
How many hear think Coker wins the backup job next year? I am on that list that thinks he does.
by SarasotaSeminole on Nov 4, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not next year.
I think it’ll take until Spring/Fall 2013 for him to overtake Trickett. Jimbo seems to place a LOT of value on comfortability with the scheme.
Agree
I like Coker, but I think Trickett showed alot of fans that they probably vastly underrated him.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
I agree that a lot of people underrated him
But I still think that he’s a very high floor, pretty low ceiling kind of guy. He’s Ken Dorsey. Maybe Greg McElroy. I think he’s a game manager and not a playmaker. Coker has a lower floor (meaning he has a higher possibility of being a bust than Trickett) but a much higher ceiling, especially when you consider the scheme Jimbo runs. The quarterback needs to at least be a threat to run. Clearly, Trickett is not……….. Having said all that, I think we could win a championship with him.
by GradSchoolNole on Nov 4, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ACC Championship? Yes. National Championship? No..
Having said all that, I think we could win a championship with him.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
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Some would consider him special if he had no legs.
In any case, you’re right. He’s an average drop back passer.
Football is my favorite show.
Exactly
Holding it to the last second is what makes it nearly impossible to defend.
EJ really seems to have a great feel for it. It’s a big, big weapon.
Florida State
NOW
6-3
4-2 ACC
by SeminoleMike on Nov 5, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Its another case of the 2nd half malaise.
In the first half of the game, including the kneel to end the half, FSU had a total of 32 plays and an average of 6.40625 yards per play. The shortest TD scoring drive of the half (not including the BC fumble) was 56 yards.
In the second half, excluding garbage time (all drives except the final drive by Clint), FSU ran 23 plays for 89 yards and an average of 3.8695 yards per play. The longest drive of any kind was 36 yards (TD) and the longest drive that started on FSU’s side of the field was 31 yards (FG).
More in a sec…
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
Follow me on Twitter! @DutchFSU
Vs NC State
First half, 36 plays, 267 yards, 7.41666 ypp.
Second half (excluding final drive at 2:30-ish remaining), 35 plays, 176 yards, 5.0285 ypp.
For the last two games, these guys came out of the locker room PROBABLY with the mindset that the game is put away. I just hope to whatever you consider holy that they DON’T do it vs Miami or Florida. Heck, even UVA the way they’ve been playing.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
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Very interesting numbers.
I would, however, like to see some consideration of playcalling in there, because it certainly seems like we bottle things up when we’ve got the game in hand. Case(s) in point, Jimbo skirting all those 4th and shorts last week.
Case(s) in point, Jimbo skirting all those 4th and shorts last week.
Is that playcalling though or decision making?
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
In regards to EJ almost throwing an int...
I think that was the play in which I was yelling at the T.V. (hoping he could hear me *shrugs) telling him to look to his left because Nick O’Leary was wide open w/ nobody around him and yet he forced it in the middle and almost threw a pick…. He definitely needs to concentrate on working on Pocket Presence and Progression because their were a couple of throws were all he had to do was check down to the left and he would’ve seen an open man… It’s like his neck doesnt go left at all. It’s just right and middle and run…
Plus on that Corner back blitz play.. Yea that’s a hard play to pick up but a QB w/ great pocket presence knows how to manipulate the offense (pre-snap) inorder to find out where the blitz is coming from or what type of coverage they’ll be dropping into… I don’t see him doing a lot of checks and reads during pre-snaps so maybe he’s not ready for that… But just from my point of view, he needs to work on that…..
Could it be that the left shoulder is inhibiting his tendencies to look to his left?
When I simulate the motion of throwing across my body or turning my torso to the left, it seems like I put enough torque on my left shoulder where doing so could be painful, given EJ’s injury.
I think I would just like too see our offense/coach would have more focus or killer instinct coming out of the half.
What’s the point to defer the kickoff to the second half if you can’t punch it in?
Acutally, last night they got a first down on the opening drive of the 2nd half.
That was the drive that EJ fumbled the ball away.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Let your defense set the tone first?
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I always defer in NCAA
Gives the extra possession in the second half where you can rush to make a comeback or run clock.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
EJ's vision
may be better than most think. You can not play the option game as well as he does and not have great vision. He’s got his eyes on both the defender and the trailing back and he makes incredibly accurate pitches.
It may be wishful thinking, but I have a feeling we’ll see a much improved post snap qb next year.
If he stays healthy, you might see him some “H” watch lists. (I will not jinx him by using that word).
I think people question his ability to read coverages quickly...
as opposed to run defenses or defenses in general.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that with game reps it can be improved.
I don’t think he’s going to be as good as Ponder was with progressions and pre-snap checks, but I think he can be pretty good, certainly better than what he has been (not that he’s been horrible to this point). Frankly, I just think we got spoiled watching Christian read and dissect defenses like it was nothing. When EJ’s gone, we’ll be grumbling about how Coker/Trickett can’t run the option or scramble like EJ. There will always be SOMETHING missing, but the key is to appreciate what you have when you have it. At least I do.
by GradSchoolNole on Nov 4, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
pasadena,
not sure if you were responding to my post or not. Disregard my next comment if you were just making a statement. I wasn’t talking about reading run defenses…I was talking about vision.
Again, please disregard if you weren’t responding to my comment.
Do you live in California now?
Yes, I was replying to you.
I agree that he will get better, but he is not making significant improvement in the pocker, and I think that is everyone’s frustration. He is great on the run and is one of the best I have seen at running the option that I can remember. But I believe he will get better.
And yes, I still live in Pasadena, CA. Rainy and cold today.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
by pasadenanole22 on Nov 4, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that his post snap decisions need to improve
I’ve said that numerous times on many post threads and even on my fan post about EJ. I even mentioned it in my post above.
All I was pointing out was that he appears to have great vision based on his option pitches.
C Ward had great vision (any good bb point guard has to) and that vision at least allows you to see the field better than Joe Six Pack. But vision needs to be complmented with the ability to make correct decisions quickly.I think everyone agrees that EJ seems to come up short in this area but at least we can feel fairly certain it’s not a “vision” problem.
I feel more confident that, since he appears to have step one down (vision), he’ll get better at using what he sees as he gains experience playing against different defenses. Some people are faster than others at this but, at least, we need not worry about his “vision”.
Let’s see how he does in finishing out the regular season…but my money says we see improvement and a different EJ next year.
EJs supposed issues reading middle of the field
Seem to be progressively improving. Bert reed td in Q1 at BC, Shaw td q2 last week… Couple of tough balls to throw into spots, spots where poorly thrown or timed balls are sure picks.
It’s not that he doesn’t have the arm, I think he’s lacked confidence throwing across the middle precisely because he’s had so many picks come as a result of poor throws over the middle. It’d be interesting to do an analysis on where he’s thrown picks, and how many we’re 5-15 yards upfield picked by a defender he didn’t account for.
If he can gain confidence in these throws, watch out.
Three things about the offense that bug me so far this season
A) I don’t have the actual numbers, but it seems that for most games the first possession of the 2nd half is a bust. Granted the big lead for Thursday’s game, but what is lacking? Jimbo has said it many times that they need to be sharp and aggressive to start the 2nd half, so it is not for lack of emphasis.
2) Points off turnovers. Again I don’t have the numbers, but I have been frequently frustrated that the offense seems to have had exceedingly poor showings when the defense has given them the few turnovers this season. Thursday night, forget the one just before the half. The one touchdown in the 2nd half was off a turnover. But one series after a turnover was what, 3 and out or 5 and out?
D) 3rd Down and short. Okay, we know the young offensive line problems, but really. How many times are they going to try it straight up the middle with either the QB or a back? Are they telegraphing the play somehow? How about a quick snap or double count instead of the standard count that allows the defense to time it just right? How about something wider, just for a change so the defense doesn’t know what’s coming. In one of the two tries in the red zone Thursday, it seemed like 9 of the 11 BC defenders were piled up on the center before EJ even got the snap. Has the O been practicing 3rd/short against the starting D? Is the staff holding back different plays to spring on Miami or UF?
Trust those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide
by Tastanagi Tutka Thlako on Nov 4, 2011 10:19 PM EDT reply actions
On #2, I’m not sure that’s the case.
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It's Weird
EJ has one of the quickest releases I have ever seen. But he seems to have a lot of difficulty seeing the field and making the decisions most other QBs have no problems with. You would expect his vision to become better with time, but it simply doesn’t seem to be happening.
Also his accuracy is highly variable. He will throw a perfect deep ball one play (see R. Greene TD pass in Wake game), a perfectly threaded precision pass a few plays later (see the TD pass to Reed last night), but will miss easy screens, crosses, etc. in between. And he almost always throws a gimme interception, although the one last night was dropped.
It is just frustrating sometimes. It seems he has so much potential, but just cannot seem to string things together.
I'm gonna be in the middle of Conecuh nation forest this weekend
Does anyone know if CBS will have the ‘game’ online?
"Kill a fly with an axe"
EJ should improve depending on if he misses another off season or not
Remember this was the first full off season he was able to complete injury free
I don't think we can say FSU is "back" until...
Jimbo’s boys can beat a top 10 team, heck I don’t think the Noles have beaten a top 20 team (final ranking). Last year was awesome considering the previous several years, but other than USC and maybe MD, not really any “big” wins. I’m thinking the Noles need to win out this year and live up to what will be huge expectations next year…then the Noles will be back.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
I'm just going to take another cheap shot here at Jimbo's offense.
He recruited EJ for his wheels. He knew what he was getting and how EJ wold be used. EJ can dominate lesser teams in this offense. But against teams with good defenses that are gunning for him, he’s not going to last. What OU did should not have been surprising. EJ will play injured and hampered his entire career at FSU, and he won’t play long in the pros.
Different decade, same results.
What OU did?
Did Travis Lewis intend to fall awkwardly and separate EJ’s shoulder?
Extremely stupid comment. Have you ever watched EJ’s HS tapes? He has a damn cannon if you haven’t noticed. And his overall game is progressing.
The upside on EJ is still huge.
Will he be playing on Sunday’s? As it is now, no. But he also has another 9 months until his senior campaign. He’s a first year starter. And as people have pointed out, Charlie ward was a INT machine around this time the year before he won the Housman.
apples vs. oranges
they finally ditched the entire “I” offense for Charlie because he couldn’t run it. Scott & Richt let Charlie improvise from the shotgun like he did on the basketball court. Only then did he “explode.” That’s not happening for EJ.
Different decade, same results.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 5, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Another ill-informed comment.
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I've been an active participant on this site for a couple of months
but I can’t get past my baffled reaction (and it’s my fault…100%) that many fans will never be satisfied unless we absolutely annihilate, humiliate and desecrate each and every opponent.
Even H Dinich looks to have come over to our camp. I have to remind myself that we’ve just kicked the crap out of our 4th straight conference opponent. They may not have been great teams, but 4 straight ass kickings in an AQ conference ain’t bad.
I just want to absolutely annihilate, humiliate and desecrate Miami and Florida
The rest of our opponents I just want to beat.
Florida State
NOW
6-3
4-2 ACC
by SeminoleMike on Nov 5, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Feel the same way
but I’ll take two wins by two points and be one happy camper.
Eureka!
Last two comments here, bring to mind a couple of things:
1. We have come a long way baby! Since 0-11/1-10 seasons and the last Lost Decade.
2. Just win baby! Mad Hatter gets ugly wins, but win he does.
3. NOLES, it always seems to go, that U don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone?!
GO NOLES, CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY BY FIRE AND MANUEVER, BE DEATH FROM ABOVE, SCALPEM LIKE THE 7TH CAV, R,LTW
by AirCavnole on Nov 5, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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