'Noles News 12.13.11: Will Mark Stoops Stay?
by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 10:27 AM EST
in FSU Football
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PrintI am hoping to hear more today about Auburn's courtship of Mark Stoops. Per usual, many are trying to paint this as a single-factor decision. It never is. Relationships and money matter. If Stoops does leave, it will be because of both issues.
Florida State has a lot to offer. The chance to work with arguably the top defensive talent in the country, a solid salary, and likely the quickest path to a head coaching position. But some folks don't get along. And Stoops and Jimbo have definitely had their disagreements. If Stoops stays, I bet the relationship improves due to working together more. And of course, if he stays, he'll get a raise.
Is getting your salary doubled and moving to a more high-profile league, with a new boss enough to jump? Even if it probably puts you on a longer path to becoming a head coach? Maybe so. Remember, there are no guarantees in the coaching works. The jump from 400K (OK, let's say FSU would match up to 600K for hypothetical purposes), to ~900K is enormous. That kind of money definitely would change the Stoops' lifestyle, even though that is already quite comfortable. That raise is full college tuition for two kids at pretty much any private college in the country. It's a new vacation home.
And remember, that Auburn's defense lost everyone this year. The 2012 defense actually has a chance to be pretty good. Auburn has had top-five recruiting classes in three of the last four years, and is doing so again this year. The dropoff in defensive talent between FSU and Auburn is not to the level I've seen stated here in the last few days. Auburn returns 9 of 11 starters on defense, and most of the backups. I'd bet that Stoops thinks "hmm, I turned FSU around, Auburn has everyone coming back and a lot of talent, why couldn't I do the same? For a lot more money."
There are no guarantees in the coaching world. To assume Stoops is making this decision solely on money, or on relationships, would be foolish. We'll just have to wait it out.
And yes, FSU fans should want Stoops to stay. Even if you disagree with his style, the results have been very impressive. And two, he has important relationships with some key recruits. Stoops isn't a great recruiter, but he's talked to these prospective players for two years. Him leaving would not help.
Miami's Miller jumping to the NFL - CBSSports.com
Miller had a breakout season for the Canes this fall, rushing for 1272 yards (the third-most in UM history in a single season) and nine touchdowns. He leaves UM with two seasons of eligibility remaining. The 5-11, 216-pound back with sprinter speed blossomed this year after learning to become a more patient runner. Miller explained before the season that because he was in such a rush to trying and make something happen that he struggled to let plays develop. The difference in his performance was dramatic. He went over 100 yards seven times this season as UM's feature back. In 2010, he ran for 646 yards and six TDs as a redshirt freshman, while also shining as a kick returner.
Really hate to see him go.
National Notes: On the way up on offense - CBSSports.com
On the way up: Hueytown (Ala.) dual-threat quarterback Jameis Winston (Committed to Florida State)
What did he do: Winston threw for over 2,400 yards and 28 touchdowns against just two interceptions. He also rushed for over 1,000 yards and had 15 touchdowns on the ground at a pace of nearly one every 10 carries. He was co-MVP of the Elite 11 over the summer and will play in the Under Armour All-American game. He recently performed well in the Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Classic.
The case: He can't move up much further but there's little doubt that he's been the most impressive quarterback in the country since the summer on. He can make plays with his legs and has improved significantly as a passer. There's no doubt that he should be in the top 10 and there's a good case to be made for him to leap-frog Gunner Kiel as the top signal-caller overall.
Headhunters: New priorities slow Penn State’s search to a crawl - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports
PSU is such a mess. Ohio State is now owning Pennsylvania in recruiting.
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And he's a virtual lock for 2000s-era Joe Paterno results to boot.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Penn St did manage to win 3 Big 10 titles in the last decade
by Jonathan Loesche on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding Miller.....
Really hate to see him go.
I hope that was sarcasm.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions
Not that it matters at this point considering how superior our talent level is to theirs but I think UM also loses Ray Ray Armstrong and Brandon Washington. It is going to be comical next year for them at certain positions.
They wanted him to go.
Duke Johnson is going to win the Heisman next year, take it to the bank!
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Dec 13, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Never gets old!
You tell em I'm coming, and Hell's comin with me!!!!
by DownByTheRiverWalkinOnWater on Dec 13, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Duke Johnson has already signed a 10 year $250M contract with the Dolphins upon graduation
Didn’t “Da Canes” fans tell you that?
He's going to beat Thad Castle's record NFL Signing
so more than 1 billion $.
Gotta love BMS
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Change the Stoops lifestyle?
Really, has he done such a poor job saving money that he can’t already send his schools to a private college? What’s the point of a vacation home when you can’t take any time off? Yes, $300,000 is a significant amount of money, but I find it difficult to believe that it will cause a lifestyle shift.
Go tell it to Moses.
Never underestimate money.
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
5% Bama income tax makes up 30-40k of potential salary difference
Don’t discount that.
FSU supposedly doesn’t have any money, but a 1 year bump for Stoops from the extra BCS money would be appropriate.
by jmnpb996 on Dec 13, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
FRGLH#$%^#_#)#LBBC:@(OH#F#O{YRO#R!!!
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
not to get into politics, and i won't say anything beyond this
… but there has never been any indication of Gov. Scott wanting to do anything of the sort. I’m not trying to get into politics, I just don’t want Coach Stoops to get the wrong idea!
by jmnpb996 on Dec 13, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
Good ol' Gov Skeletor
Love my silly state
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
That's only 10-13% of his 300k raise.
AU is still more lucrative.
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
No, sir, I have no experience, but I’m a big fan of money. I like it. I use it. I have a little. I keep it in a jar on top of my refrigerator. I’d like to put more in that jar. That’s where you come in.
by hookermctitties on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Always love the username
Follow @TomahawkNation
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
and I love this site
props to you and the rest of the crew. Keep up the kick ass work.
by hookermctitties on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just a material girl in a material world....
Great movie!
FSU, home of the Bandit! Enough said!
by cmk07c on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Since he’s already making a sizable sum its probably not as drastic a change as if he went from making $45K/year to $400K/year… but taking your current sizable income and piling another $300K just sounds too good to pass up. I’m just wondering what he would pay in taxes that he wouldn’t pay in Florida. I know it won’t break even, but I wonder if its a thought for him and if maybe it ends up not being that much more at the end of the day and I really hope he stays and gets his real pay day as a HC next year (if he does eventually leave).
Yes, it sounds too good to ignore, but let's keep it real.
Even a low level head coaching job will get him well above $1,000,000. He is not going to make a decision on the basis of one big payout, without other factors contributing heavily. Perhaps, I’m missing something in thinking that a monetary-based lifestyle plateaus at some point. He’s already in the top 1% of incomes. Based on that, I would think his decision is far more complicated than most of us receiving a 50% raise (possible $600k to $900k) at a new job. That figure is predicated on FSU being able to bump up his salary, which from others’ comments does not seem like a guarantee. Regardless, a 100% raise (without job title) is still not that great.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Lowest level HC ~200k
Median appears to be somewhere around 1million. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2011-11-17/cover-college-football-coaches-salaries-rise/51242232/1
What are you glorifying with your life?
I disagree on the 100% raise...
I don’t see how anyone could turn that down even for a lateral. Now if FSU were to counter and get him up in the $600’s then I think if it were me there would be reasons to turn down the higher offer and stay with the lower (if you can call $600K+ “lower”).
Not that our situation is all that similar to Stoops, but my wife and I just went through this kind of stuff as she just finished her surgical training this past summer. She was given higher offers, but she signed on with a practice that was the best situation all around for career & family. However if someone came in and offered to double her salary… well… best situation be damned, excessive amounts of money can overrule damn near anything.
If FSU goes 600 and Aub goes 900 then it’s a 50% raise, yep
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Is there a good chance they would counter with that?
If it were me, given that Tally would be my home, the team I would have coming back and the outlook for 2012 I personally wouldn’t leave for that amount. But if we’re talking 400 to 900… I’m checking MLS listings in Auburn.
I think I’d take the money
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Need to also consider what attractive jobs look to be comibg open in 2012 and 2013
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Please stop rec'ing this
;___;
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Me
I think people who say they would turn it down are not being realistic. If nothing else, you can just keep the Auburn job for a few years and then retire in luxury, no matter how it goes.
I'm a "take the money" guy, usually.
I think Coach Stoops goal is to be a head coach. If that’s the case it would seem the best decision would be to stay at FSU. As for possibly having a better relationship with the head coach, there’s no guarantee that would be the case at Auburn (or anywhere else). A “new boss” is a “new boss,” and you can never know for sure if he/she will be a “better boss.” Even if Coach Fisher is a tyrant, I think I’d feel good about staying around one more year, especially if a $200K raise is on the table. I think Coach Stoops has children, if that’s the case I’m also not sure I’d want to risk moving them twice in a short period of time. Of course, there is a counter-argument for everything I’ve mentioned and more. I REALLY hope the guy stays as he’s done a TREMENDOUS job. The defense in 2009 was a laughing stock.
Double sounds too good, doesn't it.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
If I was making $600k/yr. and was offered to make $850-900k per yr. doing the same thing in Alabama, the decision would be clear
Regardless of who I was working for. I take the sure money. There is a chance LJ could get injured and the defensive rankings fall next year to top 20 instead of top 10. That’s just my opinion. Hell, I could get in a car accident and die. I live in the now and go for the sure thing. I also look at worst case. Worst case in going to Auburn is that he fails there and then has a mixed resume (success at FSU vs. failure at Auburn). Worst case at Auburn is that he makes guaranteed extra money and has to wait an extra year to get a good HC job.
No guarantees
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
He wouldn't be guaranteed to make $850k-900k at AU?
My premise was that if FSU increases his salary to $600k, he is still guaranteed to make more at AU. I that not true? What am I missing?
I mean no guarantees he gets the HC spot. I was agreeing with you
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
You're missing the fact that money is not the lone factor, especially when you already have buckets of it.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
$300-$400k is not buckets of money.
Even if it was, double that and you have buckets of buckets. $900k vs. $600k and just a move to Bama and I am there 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
I want to live in your world!!!
Where that is not buckets of money. Please?!!!? In fact, throw me that “cupful” (“thimble-ful” ?)and I will name a new building after you on our college campus (only half-joking).
Yep, No Guarantees
Would the Stoops name alone put him in a more favorable position than say, Kirby Smart? I know that Saban gets most of the credit there.
Just wondering if the Stoops name is losing any value due to Mike’s firing, and Bob’s rep of not showing up in big games (fair or not). OU had some pretty inexcusable losses this year for all the pre-season hype.
Your talking about the economic principle of dimishing marginal benefits.
The only problem is he is going to be increasing his salary by so much it will make a drastic change.
People find things to spend it on.
And he’ll be working more as a HC (the future probability coming sooner being greater staying at FSU), than as a DC.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
What's the biggest difference between Florida and Alabama?
State income tax or cost of living?
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions
Quality of life.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I would imagine the COL would be fairly comparable between Tallahassee and Alabama, compared to Tampa or Miami
by Jonathan Loesche on Dec 13, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
CoL in Tallahassee isn't exactly at a level of an Albany, GA or something like that
He’s shopping at Publix, eating at take out places, wife is out at gov. square. Prices on those sort of items wouldn’t be drastically different than Tampa/Miami/Orlando.
Biggest difference between North Florida and South Florida IMO is private school tuition. Maclay is cheap compared to south Florida. LOTS of schools down here at double the tuition of Maclay.
Difference between private school costs bewteen Auburn and Tallahassee wouldn’t be so drastic, I’d think.
by jmnpb996 on Dec 13, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Biggest difference is housing
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Dec 13, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
They have indoor plumbing, I'm sure of it.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
haha Rec'd
Yeah I meant Sofla vs Big bend area
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Dec 13, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd for the Albany, GA reference.
I went to that hellhole Saturday. It’s the nearest place to shop from here. Although Warner Robins is worth the drive.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
The newer signs read.....
Strippers. Need we say more?
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Albany is a cesspool of depravity.
What a horrible, horrible town.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Albany isn't THAT bad
It’s not too far from Leesburg!!
10 miles, give or take.
But Leesburg is leaps and bounds ahead of Albany.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Once, years ago.
But I live less than an hour away, so I avoid it as much as possible.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Yes it is.
Why do you think Lee County is nice? All the decent folks moved out of Dougherty County.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Amen to that.
I used to work in Albany. Good Life City my butt.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
There is a bit more culture
in Tallahassee than in Auburn. I just don’t see Auburn as a desirable place for a family to live, but I guess if you’re making bank then I guess its irrelevant.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Some people had rather raise their children without the presence of some culture.
Not saying it’s right, just saying…..
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Auburn is ...
… an hour and a half from Atlanta. Tallahassee isn’t near as close to anything offering so much.
I have lived in Auburn and Tallahassee, for well more than a decade in each. Cost of living is comparable, housing is lower in ‘Bama. There’s a state income tax in Alabama, but property taxes are much lower.
Personally I prefer Tallahassee, but don’t underestimate the charm of the Loveliest Village. People really do love the place. I liked being so close to Atlanta. I’m currently in the closest major metropolis to Tallahassee. Jacksonville has its pluses, but it ain’t no Atlanta.
On a related note, I dislike Clemson as a team as much as anyone, but I think a lot of our posters here underestimate the attractions of living in a traditional southern university town like Clemson. We’d all love to think that it’s just the $$$ that brings recruits and coaches to those places, but unless you’ve experienced Clemson or Auburn first hand, I’d say you really don’t understand how good life can be in a place like that.
by PJ524 on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Similar to Athens, GA.
The town is alright. Has its plusses and minuses. But, Atlanta is an hour and a half away. That makes it far more palatable. Would I choose Athens over Tallahassee? Not in a million. But it’s hard to discount the absolute fervor these towns operate with when it comes to their university. Tallahassee could be FSU all the time, but the igmos up College Ave manage to ruin that every once in a while.
You can be the king, but watch the queen conquer.
by JustLikeYouOnlyPrettier on Dec 13, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
Athens can be a great place. If you’re raising kids, places like Auburn, Athens, or Clemson are ideal. Tallahassee, too! (That’s where my kids were born, and still reside most of the time.)
It’s fun to make all the redneck, cow-college jokes, but southern university towns are in reality islands of culture and technology. And all that gummint funding maintains an economic stability that’s missing in much of America these days.
Athens is pretty incredible.
There are 98 bars downtown. 98! And its generally a 5 dollar cab ride from just about anywhere in the county to downtown.
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Dec 13, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose I am guilty
of assuming Auburn to be a town of nothing but plains and hay bales due to friends who have visited Auburn for different games.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Dec 13, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
No biggie
I like Tallahassee better, but the game day experience in Auburn is much better, unfortunately. I spend Thanksgiving there last year (2010), and even though that incredible Iron Bowl comeback was in Tuscaloosa, I took my daughters down to Toomer’s Corner after the game, and the place was PACKED! I’m glad I did it then, because the trees will never be the same. At least my daughters experienced it before they die.
Lake Martin....
Pat Dye, Terry Bowden, and Tommy Tubberville have homes there. Its about 15 miles from Auburn and sort of a redneck millionaires playground. This is where anyonee with money and clout in the Auburn area live.
by Widespread Seminole on Dec 13, 2011 3:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
For those who like to garden, Auburn can't be beat!
Ranchers bordering the Auburn campus offer all you can carry, fresh hot cow manure for free.
And excellent mushrooms...
…for all you psilocybin afficionados.
Well I’ve worked in both FL and AL and really the only difference I noticed is that there is a state tax attached to your paycheck in AL and no state tax in FL. Yes while not having the state tax is nice here in FL it’s definitely not a deal breaker and really doesn’t pull out enough money to matter.
What sort of disagreements
have popped up between Fisher and Stoops?
Fisher’s just tough to work for. He lets Mark have total autonomy over there, but when they mess up he’ll rip into him.
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
He can be rough, but there's been 2-3 minor sideline incidents this year
I haven’t seen a full Saban meltdown on Stoops or any position coach yet.
Jimbo has always had a temper. He will blow up on you and then act like nothing happened the next day. But this year, with the added stress he didn’t have…
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Accountability
It should be okay to hold assistant accountable. He shouldnt have to be nice about mistakes made by assistants. I like accountability
by Sam.Noles.4.Life on Dec 13, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Accountability is not equal to yelling and being unprofessional, even when your profession is football.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Go tell that to Nick Saban
Worked alright for him
Which aspect?
Being publicly unprofessional or being strict off the sidelines? I don’t see much over the top behavior from Saban. Perhaps winning has something to do with that.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
People did say that about Saban
They shut up after he won a couple NCs.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Point is you don't need to be the stoic coach, or the stupid cheerleader (DABO) to win games
In the words of superhero Vin Diesel, “it doesn’t matter if you win by an inch or win by a mile, winning is winning”
My point is it doesn't matter what your personality is
if you’re winning at the highest level. Being a prick, going 8-4 and running off your top assistant (not saying that’s happening, just the perception people have) will draw lots of attention to your….being a prick.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Right, of course.
But as you know, the odds of going 8-4 are higher than 11-1 for nearly every team in the nation. Thus you want to minimize the dickishness because it rise to the top more often than not.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
who rips into fisher when he messes up
just askin
Me. haha!
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Just putting this here
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Dec 13, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I bet Fisher is tough to work for.
My speculation is most coaches in a big time college environment are similar. Fisher is “the devil you know,” vs. Chizik being “the devil you don’t.” I’ve faced similar decisions several times in my career (though not with quite as many dollars involved). They’re tough to make, but changing jobs always involves a degree of risk. The things you think will be better may not be, and the problems you anticipate may turn out to be irrelevant.
Stoops - another factor
I know my wife makes a big deal about moving and uprooting the kids. She would have made a horrible military wife. Bud makes a good point that if Stoops “turns around” the FSU D and then “turns around” the Auburn D, he is surely looking at a major D-1 head coaching job. If he just stays at FSU, it could be any head coaching job. “Turns around” is in quotes because both programs have brought in incredible talent that mature under Stoops. Most “good” coordinators, including Hudson and others, should be able to take that sort of talent and turn it into a damn fine defense. Seems like the stars have perfectly aligned for M.Stoops.
Part of my point is that a happy wife = a happy life
If the idea is that Stoops will get a HC job in 1-2 yrs. after being at AU vs. 1 extra yr. at FSU, my wife would probably want me to stay and give the kids some stability. As the bread winner, I would have the ultimate say b/c it is my career after all. Just saying this might be a factor as well.
I asked my wife and all she said was
kaching!
by StM on Dec 13, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Green with the Ka-Ching !!!
It’s all about the Green…
by FullTimeNole on Dec 13, 2011 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is a cost for moving to another place, especially if you plan on owning an expensive house,
The cost of moving is something stoops will have to consider with his raise. I realize he is still getting a big raise but flipping houses can easily eat up tens of thousands of dollars and if he plans on moving on in a year or two that would be another uprooting.
It also sucks for families to move ever 2-3 years which seems like the scenario if he has any kind of HC dreams.
It would be great to win a championship
before the all-star staff starts getting plucked apart.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Kind of thought that too
“I figured we’d start losing coaches this offseason, but I kind of thought I’d have a 11-2 record to feel better about it.”
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
people coming after our staff like we already won titles.
Just wait a couple years, c’mon.
Knowing is half the battle, the other half is violence.
by onebarrelrum on Dec 14, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on how fat and lazy the ones in the bush are.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not if the birds are pooping,
which they frequently do.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i dunno -
id love to bag two birds in the bush
(better than one in hand imo)
I highly recommend it
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
Wait
I thought most people had two birds in their hands…?
I don’t think Mark leaves, but I doubt he’s interviewing personally. Maybe put some feelers out?
Follow @TomahawkNation
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he is just using this
as leverage for a raise, and more control over the team.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I think he'd offer the most stability
Plus his Defenses were pretty good at ECU. Imagine what he could do with talent like FSU’s.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Jimbo is full of surprises. Don't know whether Hud would automatically get the job.
I like the idea of promoting Hud rather then spending $$$ for a new DC b/c Hud already knows the personnel and I’m sure he has ideas about what he would do differently. If the deal with Stoops is primarily $$$ based, then it is more efficient for FSU to bump Hud and promote him while bringing in a new DB coach at a lesser salary. Just don’t know whether Jimbo would go for a new DC or a DB coach. Personally, I would take $$$ from the IPF and pay Stoops to stay.
Really, is there any chance it's NOT Hudson
If Stoops leaves this offseason?
Hudson was a DC already, and working under Stoops only makes him better
…plus he is an absolute laugh riot with the boosters and the kids
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 13, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
And he looks like Stone Cold.
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ha! Can't wait to see that interaction
JF: “GD Greg, WTF are your guys doing, GD, MF!”
GH: “I got this coach….and you’re about to get a figure-4.”
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
But not a great recruiter
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 13, 2011 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
But neither is Stoops.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Finish your drink
That kind of money definitely would change the Stoops’ lifestyle, even though that is already quite comfortable. That raise is full college tuition for two kids at pretty much any private college in the country. It’s a new vacation home.
>>>─────;;─►
Could be a volatile situation
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
We used to hunt in Stewart County.
There is, literally, nothing there but a restaraunt and gas station. Although, that was a long time ago. I’m sure they have a Dollar General by now.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
can you say...
New Piggley Wiggley?!
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
We have a Piggly Wiggly here.
Don’t go dissing the Pig. They have lots of overpriced goods for your consumption. It’s the only grocery store in town. Luckily, Wal Mart is in the next town over.
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 14, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
I went to the game there in 1987
Walked in hearing F S Who
Walked out saying Auburn Who
34-6 if I remember correctly (Their only loss of the season)
Cute girls, nice stadium not much else
Jimbo Being Harsh
Its funny when people have concern about how Jimbo interacts with assistants. Is that why we got tired of Bobby Bowden he never held assistants accountable.
We cant have it both ways.
by Sam.Noles.4.Life on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Si
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yes we can.
Doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. It is possible to hold people accountable AND get along with them.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I can't believe people actually rec'd the idea of being a douche in public.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
DRusso
does it for a living and I applaud him for that.
by Nolegrad89 on Dec 13, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Annnnnnnnnnnnd Rec'd.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
That’d be nice, but all people care about is wins. An abrasive personality will just get him canned earlier if he doesn’t produce. Jimbo’s interaction with his staff is low on my list of concerns.
What was your roommates name? I most likely played with him...
-The one and only DRusso97
Yup. I think I made a very similar comment in here somewhere.
Follow me @DKNoisewaterTN or @ACCrefsSuck.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Dec 13, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
My bad, must’ve missed it. I’m all for him sacrificing Coley Mayan style if that gets us a NC.
What was your roommates name? I most likely played with him...
-The one and only DRusso97
You…need help. Can we make it Gran? Coley’s too much fun.
You can be the king, but watch the queen conquer.
by JustLikeYouOnlyPrettier on Dec 14, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Trickett please, they could rip his heart out like “Temple of Doom.”
by zewhitedevil on Dec 14, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
What does accountability have to do with screaming and throwing toddler-esque temper tantrums after 2nd down? The means by which he interacts is the main thing some people are questioning. Don’t equate Bobby Bowden’s senile oblivion with being respectable, tough, and fair.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
The dropoff in defensive talent between FSU and Auburn is not to the level I’ve seen stated here in the last few days.
Bud, this may have been due to one of your tweets where you said AU didn’t have 1 player that could start on FSU’s D. They you said, well maybe 1.
Indeed. I am guilty in that as well
Follow @TomahawkNation
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Is there any chance Jimbo steps down within the next year?
Not saying I want it to happen. But with the added stress of his son’s illness, if that worsens, it is possible he leaves to take care of his family situations?
If so, would Stoops be the first in line to be Head Coach?
I said this to some people
I said it is likely Jimbo may step aside and if that were to happen Stoops would be the next head coach.
My prediction for 2011 is 12-2 (6-2)
I expect to be in contention for the National Title but a late loss will bounce us out of it. We should finish in the Top 5 and win the whole thing EJ's senior year. Legal_Seminole 01/09/2011
by Legal_Seminole on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Not Likely
A. He don’t say dadgum, or have West Virginia ties.
2. We will never hire a defensive minded head coach.
D. Trickett would eat him for breakfast.
Speaking of which, no one seems to be looking at Trickett, Coley, or Dawsey for any openings. Hmmm…
Be nice to Muschamp, he might be our next Linebacker Coach.
by Ponder This on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
2. Why?
D. ???
"You make the helmet, the helmet doesn't make you." << Jimbo FN' Fisher
Twitter @RobbedbyJT
2. see fan reaction to gator game.
D. Imagine Stoops trying to order Trickett to get it in gear. Stoops looks like he is going to pee his pants every third down. Smart, conscientious guy, just not officer material.
Be nice to Muschamp, he might be our next Linebacker Coach.
2. So the reaction to the horrible defense of 2009 was more tame than the reaction to the horrible offense of a win vs our rivals? We’ve hired 2 head coaches in 30 years both offensive guys. I think you are stretching a bit.
D. BS. So he can’t be a head coach because he is emphatic about his play calling on 3rd downs.
Not buying that.
Twitter @RobbedbyJT
i think hes saying
Stoops isnt an Alpha Male
and Trickett is a super smart Grizzly Bear stuffed into a human costume.
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
Stoops is leaving in a year anyway
So no sense in matching his salary. He would be an idiot to be a chizbitch when he us running the shizow here. Any head coach is going to smack him around from time to time. I hate to change terminology on defense. I hope Hudson has learnt to speak Stoopsian.
Be nice to Muschamp, he might be our next Linebacker Coach.
If it was a lock that Stoops was gone after 11-12
I say give him a raise and let him leave “on schedule”. It makes us look good (we will pay assistants top dollar) and being an FSU assistant will improve your stock. We also can keep as much staff continuity as possible for what should (better) be a big 2012.
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I really think we need 2 look @ goin 2 tha SEC
What we are talkin about is total disrespect for us!! Damn it we R FSU!! But we let some bs team who can’t even dominate their own state come in and get every1 upset about stealing 1 of our coaches!! Have we really lost it? R we closer to becoming an inferior program? Now im worried!!
Noles4Life!!
by Shawn Stepp on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
R U 4 RLZ
It not us dicision to do.
My bad, thought I was on twitter.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
And then he might not leave after one year and then he is making 600,000 for a job that Hudson most likely can do making 350,000 with FSU type talent. Would the defense likely be any worse off under Hudson next year? Probably not, might even blitze more.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
Do not want
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hudson as DC or more blitzing?
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Well, more blitzing
But I’d be content if Hudson was never our DC either.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 13, 2011 10:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's why I said "if it's a lock".
If I know I’ll only have him for one more season, I’d pony up. VT just contributed 400k to the “keep Mark for one more year” fund.
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Fair point
But then we are upsetting the salary applecart, but maybe we are paying too low across the board.
Be nice to Muschamp, he might be our next Linebacker Coach.
I'll agree we are paying to low if Mark doesn't get to 600-700k here.
He’s on par with the best DC’s in the nation and making far less than a few.
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
We cant control what happens
So let’s stop beating this dead horse..Does any1 know what conference our bowl officials R from? We really need this game for more reasons than any1 could fathom!!
Noles4Life!!
Well at least its not those ACC clowns
Rees is in for a long day..but I don’t know if the B12 is use to seeing a D that’s so fast and agrresive..They may throw flags jus because they haven’t seen anything like this B4 Bro..
*Bra??
Noles4Life!!
Please for the love of Doak Campbell learn to use the reply button, use complete sentences, or clauses, and at least attempt, just attempt to spell words right.
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Dec 13, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It's called vernacular
We need to embrace it because he/she has clearly decided to ignore our many attempts to improve his/her comments.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
'come at me bra'
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
or even "spell words correctly"
it is incorrect grammatically to say “spell words right”
Good lord…if you are going to be the grammar police at least know your subject.
Otherwise you just look like an arrogant tool.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Dec 14, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
R u sUre U R iN dA riGHt plAce?
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 13, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Back when it seemed when there was some possibility FSU would have an SEC invitation
many people tried to claim that FSU’s financial disadvantage to the SEC (and now Pac 12 and Bg 10) wasn’t going to hurt us that bad.
Well, that didn’t take long. Lose your defensive coordinator in a LATERAL MOVE. To a team that most on hear wouldn’t consider a more elite program. Yes, Auburn has the freak Cam Newton title, but other than that, does anyone really think of Auburn as a more elite team than FSU, even with FSU down? It’s not the same as losing him to Texas or Alabama.
FSU needs to get used to being the next to last stop now. That will be for head coaches as well. Yay.
And before you say “Well, FSU would match for Jimbo,” think about it. Would you rather coach where your budget for a defensive coordinator is $500,000, or $1M? Why is Mike Leach at Washington State rather than Maryland?
Welcome to being a coaching stop stepping stone.
I'm so glad we have Swofford as our commissioner
Under his astute watch the ACC has gone from an 8-team basketball-first conference in a country where football is the most lucrative sport in the land and the member schools’ athletic programs have languished, to a 14-team basketball-first conference in a country where football is the most lucrative sport in the land and the member schools’ athletic programs have languished.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
He's terrible, but what would you have suggested the ACC do?
You can’t ignore the additions of FSU, Miami, and VaTech. There aren’t many football schools available for poaching.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Leverage our football programs to get us a better TV deal?
Look to set up an ACC network?
Lots of ideas.
Not dogging him as much on expansion, but his record on negotiating media deals for the conference has been disastrous.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Hate defending him/the conference
I thought that the previous ACC deal was more lucrative than the SEC, at least for a period of time. Didn’t many people that the deal we received that nearly doubled our payout was unexpected. With respect to the ACC network, I thought some (clearly not enough) effort was made to determine if it was plausible. I’m not sure what you mean by leveraging our football programs. I would love to learn what that means though. Do you mean propping them up in order to have a better product to sell?
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not the 2008 SEC deals. They net the SEC schools 50% more per year than even the ACC's new TV deal.
We’re getting also-ran TV money.
At this rate, we won’t be able to compete with the UFs and Oklahomas of the world for top-flight coaching talent unless we can renegotiate a hell of a deal,lean on the boosters for a hell of a lot more cash or both.
Get ready to see FSU’s HC position become a job for someone on the way to to the top, not a destination job, because that’s what this TV deal has forced upon us.
We need to find another revenue source(s) and we need to find it quick. Even after renegotiation, I dont’ know how much more we’re gonna get without another media outlet.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
ACCN
If we can get this stupid conf decent enough, we have a great footprint for a network. It gets even better if we can lure ND down the road.
This conference can't get better
Because of the money. An FSU or Clemson MIGHT be able to make an occasional run, but on a top to bottom level, no way. It will never be competitive with the other conferences now because of the cash. How is NC State going to be very good when schools like Minnesota and Mississippi have stupid money. We will lose coaches to schools like Auburn and Georgia and Michigan, but the NC State and Virginias of the world will lose their coaches to Iowa, Arizona State, Cal, Illinois.
Unless we can get ND on board, the ACC is toast. You can’t overcome money, and these lousy ACC schools are going to stay lousy relatively because they are at a massive financial disadvantage.
It’s ND or bust.
And the SEC is about to re-up
The Big 10 is getting close to redoing their contract, and it’s going through the roof. The Pac 12 is starting at 21 million, but that’s without the scaling up that the Pac 12 network is going to provide.
In two years, or whenever it is that the Big 10 re-ups, I guarantee the ACC schools will be making less than 50% of the SEC, Big 10 or Pac 12. It’s very realistic that the ACC may be making a third.
When the Big 10 and Pac 12 schools are making $35 million a year, and the SEC is making $30 million, and the ACC is making $12 million, stick a fork in us. I’m sure we can have some nice years here and there, and maybe once in a decade have the right combination of coaches right before they leave and senior players so that people consider us a dark horse for a national title, but what we want to be is over.
I never understand the way people dance on Miami’s grave like we’re immune. Miami’s biggest problem is money. It’s why they haven’t been able to get big time coaches and why they play road OOC games and why their facilities suck.
FSU’s problem is money also. It’s not as bad as Miami, but the exact same things are going to happen to us as long as the financial bar keeps getting raised. That is our future.
I don’t care if you hate the SEC or not, if you want FSU to be a big time player in football, you best be praying that we get invited to be 15 or 16 this summer, or that ND joins the ACC.
And that is a fact and also is not a quicker road to a national championship shot
It is BB’s fault also.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
Why is Mike Leach at Washington?
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
State
If not for the new tv deal, that’s more than they could afford for a head coach, assistants, players, and travel.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Things are not OK in the ACC. Money is just not there. The problem is, for about 11 or the 14 schools, that’s just fine. It’s perfectly in line with their interets. They never expect to compete with the Auburns and Texas’ of the world.
Big problem for us. And showing it’s face sooner than I even expected. If we don’t pay up to keep Stoops, then we are out of running with the big dogs. That doesn’t mean we can occasionally have a great year when everything comes together. But we aren’t going to be perrenial title contenders either.
I say roll the dice and pay him what it takes. Gamble on winning a national title and booster contributions and attendance skyrocketing. If we get it wrong and flame out, just cut your future budget for the next head coach and go into Randy Shannon mode.
But I don’t see how we are going to be who we want to be when we can lose guys to lateral moves.
I’m afraid this is the future.
by LouC on Dec 13, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't sound the alarm yet, chief
You don’t think Hudson could keep together a top 25 defense with our resources and recruiting? You don’t think he’d stick around with Jimbo at 500-700?
You don’t think Jimbo can assemble a decent offense again?
You don’t think we can toss another 100 at Gran to retain him, and our ST remains elite?
You’re basically saying, if we can’t afford to retain Stoops at fair market value, the program is over forever. I think that’s a smidge reactionary.
Definitely agree with the second sentence.
Why would Hudson get 500-700 when Stoops is only getting 400? Why not give Stoops the 700 now and hope he stays put for another season or two?
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 13, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if Hudson can or not
That’s the problem. We know Stoops can. You can be the kind of program that can loses coordinators to head coaching jobs, or you can be the kind of program that loses coordinators to head coaching jobs and lateral coordinator jobs.
Stoops didn’t get an acceptable head coaching offer. If we aren’t playing money catchup, we get one more year of elite defense, and one more year for Hudson to develop. Now we jump into the unknown a year earlier than we have to.
Who knows, Hudson could be better. So could a local high school coach. But having to jump into that unknown a year sooner than we should have hurts us.
It also means our regional peers can hire our coaches laterally, but we can’t hire theirs. We can’t hire Kirby Smart to replace Stoops.
And we kind of have the heir apparent in the moment in Hudson. We aren’t going to have that in the future when guys like Hudson can go coach Tennessee’s linebackers for twice the money.
How many of the last nine national championships have been won by a program that isn’t a “last stop”? None.
If you look at all of them back to 1998, you could make the case that every winner was a last stop program when they won it.
Where are the national championships won by schools that lose coaches to lateral positions?
Dude, we would get crushed in the SEC
We aren’t even competing in the ACC right now!
I remember thinking $2M was a low figure for Washington State to be excited about.
There’s what, 10 assistant coaches? That’s an average of only $200K each. I’d guess with Mark Stoops making $400K (20% of the Wazzou total) FSU spends more than $2M on assistants. From what I’m reading here, FSU is on the side of average for a big time program.
by Dauntless12 on Dec 14, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Alphonse*
I’ll believe it when someone other than WC reports it.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Bingo.
Plus AT attends the school where the coaches don’t allow their players to decommit. And AT has been all FSU since the beginning. He was even doing the chop this weekend at the all-star game.
Article about commitment policy:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=6569561
FWIW, Warchant is posting that they are hearing that he decommitted, not that he actually has.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
@shonole...
Exactly why I don’t believe it…. His school doesn’t even participate in the “recruiting game” and if/when a player commits then that commitment is final. He’ll be a Nole come signing day.
I heard he cancelled his warchant subscription
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
May have to do with Alabama losing it's OC.
Trying to start rumors to help the fan base.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
Jimbo Fisher is now 4-0 against UF and UM.
by pasadenanole22 on Dec 13, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Our two day foray into Alabama football has been frightening.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Ira said it best, abuot these coaching rumors and recruiting rumors
REAL PROGRAM PROBLEMS
It’s almost nice to have to deal with these type of problems, instead of sitting idly by and wondering when we would finalyl go a year without a player getting drafted.
Yeah, Ira is (among) the best.
But it’s still leading to me wasting time that I don’t have to spare.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
One thing Ira doesn't mention though
is that REAL PROGRAMS don’t have teams stealing their assistant coaches for lateral moves.
Clemson realized that, and paid what was necessary to keep Morris.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
Do we have that?
Or are we being Sexton’d to bring our DC of our top 10 D in line with other salaries for top 10 DC’s?
The money argument is a bit overplayed, considering the bonus from the ACC 2 bids is a 1 time payment, and the raise to Stoops will likely be a 1 time payment.
I guess we'll find out
Do we get to consider ourselves a real program if Auburn outspends us?
Formerly known as 'stilts'
We will never have the resources of a traditional power.
But that didn’t prevent us from going on the strongest run in CFB history.
And the difference in the “outspending” will have a lot more to do with having to pay other assistants measurably higher salaries. This is where we’d get hit hardest, and probably not be able to compete.
You’re right – let’s see how committed the administration is.
Not that I'm saying this is the only factor, but this line of thinking
We will never have the resources of a traditional power. But that didn’t prevent us from going on the strongest run in CFB history.
is one reason why we struggle in the resources department.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
When we were on our run
The ACC had the biggest television payout per team.
Now we’re dead last (if you exclude the Big East).
That’s what happened. Now there are 40 schools with stupid money from TV. We’re not one of them.
And this is what people forget.
Everything that matters in football isn’t always on the field.
The amount of money in major college football is just stupefying. Well it is, but only to the full third of BCS teams that get paid more per year than we do, anyway.
Maybe we can join the Big 12(10). Their TV money is much better than the ACC’s, and I hear the North needs a replacement for Nebraska. That and it’s no less crazy than the Big East expansion plans.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Coach Steele?
Now we’re dead last (if you exclude the Big East).
In War of the Worlds, the aliens, with all their superior technology and brains, were still defeated by something as simple as a virus. They had reached the highest form of evolution but had somehow lost immunity to the simplest form of attack along the way. The success of that virus against invading aliens is an apt analogy for Tim Tebow's success against every other NFL team.
by Nole Resurrected on Dec 14, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you did right thur
"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty f*^@ing cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"
- Bill Hicks (another dead hero)
Chingy?
Official reader of Tomahawk Nation.
Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
by Jamil Dawson on Dec 14, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
If this happens and Stoops goes to Auburn, the FSU fan base has two options
1. Realize that while we were napping for 10 years, the game has passed us by and figure out what it will take to have a “big boy” program.
or
2. Realize we can’t compete with these other schools financially and lower our expectations to that of schools that can’t keep bigger schools from poaching our assistants (for lateral moves).
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Dec 13, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Whatever decision is made will be about more than money; therefore, we don't need to realize any of those things.
At least based on this instance.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Money is at the root of it, though.
If we were paying Stoops anything close to what they’re offering, I don’t think they would have even bothered approaching him.
If he does go, it’s largely because of the money. Then you have to ask… if Auburn outspends us, did they outspend us because we were unwilling to pay or unable to pay. If we are unable to keep up, either booster support has to increase significantly or we need to lower our expectations as a fanbase.
Just my opinion of course, but if you’re the kind of program whose good assistants get taken as lateral moves, you can’t expect to be an elite program.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
How would we determine whether we were unwilling? We know that we are unable, so that would be the conclusion by default.
If Stoops leaves FSU in order to be the highest paid DC in college football, I don’t think it means we can’t compete at all. Judging by Malzahn’s 1.3 million dollar salary, Auburn will spend any amount. Their willingness to pay assistants (and players) exceeds all other SEC schools. Thus, I don’t believe this specific lateral is quite as telling as you opine. We don’t need this to happen in order to realize we have far less money and fanaticism as them, or most (6-7/12) of the SEC.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
(Schools in order of ability and dedication): Alabama, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe you're right in regards to Auburn
And I do agree that most FSU fans understand that we have less money/fanaticism than the SEC. But, from my experience with the FSU fans I know (those that don’t participate at TN), they don’t understand what that means.
It’s been so long since we’ve had desirable assistants, they don’t understand that not having that money means we only get the good coaches for 2-3 years.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
Yes you're right, this would make those fans overreact.
It’s unlikely they would consider the factors regarding Auburn that I’ve mentioned. However, those fans are unlikely to understand much of what we have discussed. Undoubtedly, many would take this to mean we are closer to Boise State than Alabama. You don’t seem to be among those fans, so do your best to educate them. We must all teach the ignorant.
Go tell it to Moses.
by FLpanhandler on Dec 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, you accept only getting good coaches 2-3 years
when they are moving on to higher positions.
There’s a big difference between that and losing guys to lateral moves. It hugely widens the available suitors when our coaches don’t even need a promotion to jump ship.
Elite programs don’t lose successful assistants to lateral moves.
Sounds like you do agree with me. But oh well, maybe I'm just not being clear today.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
See
Me
Just my opinion of course, but if you’re the kind of program whose good assistants get taken as lateral moves, you can’t expect to be an elite program.
You
Elite programs don’t lose successful assistants to lateral moves.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
You're right
I guess we do agree. I guess I was more responding to the comment accusing people of over-reacting.
I think this is a very, very bad sign for our football future, and if that’s overreacting, then I guess I am.
Sorry if I mistook your opinion.
Think that was panhandler
Glad I’m on your side of this. You usually seem to know what your talking about in all this resources stuff
Formerly known as 'stilts'
Mark Stoops....
I think people are not considering the family aspect in his decision to stay versus go. Yes Auburn offering Stoops more money would be a good reason for him to give them a serious look, but that can also be used to help him get a raise (which he will) at FSU. Jimbo did sort of the same thing when he was the head coach in waiting and was getting vetted by other colleges. But back to the family aspect of it. I doubt he would just want to up and move his family to another place when he and his family were just getting settled in and his family really enjoys being at Florida State. Plus it’s the same position; which I doubt he will be wanting to leave for. I think Stoops will use this momentum to get a well deserved raise and will be here until a “viable” head coaching position opens up for him in the future.
Might have to begin looking at Boise assistants who win being paid half of what Stoops makes.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
Sure, and have them for two years
Until LSU or Georgia decides they want them.
Yeah just read that, they're jumping ship there for some reason. I guess we'll find out soon enough
Lifes a SPEAR then U TRIBE!!!!!
"We Are FLORIDA STATE!!!!"
"I know what you're scared of.... Its comin' BANK ON IT!"
-CoachColey
"FSU can't beat Oklahoma,Clemson and the refs. I rarely harp this much on officiating, but they were truly brutal. Protectionism at its finest." BUD-ice
Cool
Hopefully that’s one rumor we can put to rest (Gran to ArkSt).
And why would both Ted and Gus leave and take pay cuts? Something is very strange
Lifes a SPEAR then U TRIBE!!!!!
"We Are FLORIDA STATE!!!!"
"I know what you're scared of.... Its comin' BANK ON IT!"
-CoachColey
"FSU can't beat Oklahoma,Clemson and the refs. I rarely harp this much on officiating, but they were truly brutal. Protectionism at its finest." BUD-ice
Yeah it definitely puts the Gran to ASU rumors to rest. Something is definitely going on at Auburn. I don’t think there is any chance that Stoops is leaving at this point.
by arkansasnole on Dec 13, 2011 11:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Apparently Birmingham Fox affiliate keeps reporting Stoops to auburn
But they got blindsided by Malzahan to Ark State
Maybe the best stick to reporting leprechaun sitings.
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Dec 14, 2011 12:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Don't laugh....
I drew that amateur sketch.
"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty f*^@ing cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"
- Bill Hicks (another dead hero)
The Malzahn move shocks me.
What is ASU paying him? Could they afford to pay him more than he was making at AU? Only a year ago, heck maybe even this year, he was rumored to be on the shortlist for some big time programs. (His wife is certifiably crazy, but I wouldn’t think she would have this major an impact on his career.) Chizik loses both coordinators in a single season, though the Roof situation looks to be a quasi-firing. Something is definitely up on the Plains. If I was Coach Stoops I’d take a wide berth. He should put up another Top 10 defense next year and then see what’s available as a head coach.
by Dauntless12 on Dec 14, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Ark St. will be paying him $850k , he made $1.3mil at Auburn.... Money is clearly not the issue here.
Lifes a SPEAR then U TRIBE!!!!!
"We Are FLORIDA STATE!!!!"
"I know what you're scared of.... Its comin' BANK ON IT!"
-CoachColey
"FSU can't beat Oklahoma,Clemson and the refs. I rarely harp this much on officiating, but they were truly brutal. Protectionism at its finest." BUD-ice
He's also
from Arkansas. Maybe his wife is homesick. Or his parents are old. Maybe he can handle the expectations at Arky St.
Or maybe trouble is brewing in Auburn. Who knows?
I find it difficult to believe that ANYONE could EVER be homesick for Jonesboro, Ark.
by Dauntless12 on Dec 14, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Me too...
But I hear his wife is kinda daffy. My parents live in Auburn and they hear things.
Alimony math
Alimony based on Ark St salary is better than alimony based on Auburn salary.
Finalize divorce then jump to higher paying job.
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I saw her interview with Rev. Ronnie Floyd
She’s obviously bat-dung-insane.
Miller to the NFL
think Armstrong is next?
RayRayRayRay = Homerism Squared
.
by Aaron Tampa Nole on Dec 14, 2011 2:09 AM EST reply actions
They've lost so much offense now
I don’t even care about their defense. They won’t even sniff the 50 yard line next year.
Auburn's offense just went from dependability to liability
At least FSU tries to give the defense the best advantage possible in field position, I don’t see that being the case at Auburn.
On December 14, 2011, Mark Stoops was officially announced as Auburn's new defensive coordinator
This is of course from the always reliable sports information source Wikipedia. I’m guessing some Auburn fan put it on there in hopes it would come true. Or maybe he updates the date every single day, hoping “today will be the day”.
FSU are back-to-back State champs! Combined score of 120-50.
They did that the other day, too, when the rumors first started.
I was driving home, stuck in traffic, and almost peed myself when I saw it.
You can be the king, but watch the queen conquer.
by JustLikeYouOnlyPrettier on Dec 14, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
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