FSU 18 - Notre Dame 14: Thoughts On Florida State's Win
by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2011 5:00 PM EST
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Where do I start in analyzing FSU's 18-14 win over Notre Dame? There are so many angles to discuss. But fight has to be at the top of the list.
This team didn't always play smart. It wasn't always coached smart. But this team never quit. 13 games. No quit.
That's something fans take for granted, but they shouldn't. I see teams quit every week at both the college and pro levels. But I have not seen this FSU team quit. They didn't quit when they were down big against Oklahoma or Clemson. And they didn't quit last night. That's impressive and is not something that I'll overlook. A quitting team doesn't win against Notre Dame.
Oh, and give Notre Dame credit for being a good team. They do have a quarterback issue, but that's a good team.
I gave E.J. Manuel a lot of flack on twitter last night for his play in the first half. And it was deserved, because he missed checks, throws and didn't help his offensive line get the protections set very well. But he deserves all the praise I can give him and more for his second half performance. See Bill Connelly:
-0.1: Average gain on E.J. Manuel's first 10 pass attempts. Protected, er, "protected," by a line loaded with true freshmen, Manuel was running for his life early in the game. Early in the second quarter, Manuel was 4-for-7 for 22 yards and had been sacked three times for 23 yards.
... After the early struggle, things fell into place at least a little better in the pocket. In his final 26 pass attempts, Manuel was 16-for-24 for 227 yards and was only sacked twice; his per-attempt average in that time: 7.9 yards.
Did Manuel have butterflies? I think he might have. He certainly did not have any expectation of protection and seemed to be watching the rush. And he held the ball forever on some of the quick game and took some awful sacks. In the first part of the game, Manuel played like a freshman. In the second part, he played like a fourth-year quarterback.
And perhaps nobody embodied the tough, refuse-to-quit attitude more than Manuel. Why? Because I believe he was hurt. I received a text from our True Cubbie during the game. He noted that Manuel was limping and hadn't bent down to take a snap in the second half. TC thought it was a knee. I'm not a doctor, but EJ was clearly hurting. That was a warrior game.
I don't have much to say about the running backs. Lonnie Pryor had a bad blitz pickup early in the game. Devonta Freeman's fumble was awful. James Wilder looked a bit better than I expected, but he still missed two obvious, obvious cuts that would have gained at least five more yards per cut. And on the one sweep he needed to cut it up and did not. James Wilder cannot be a finesse back.
I really liked what I saw from the receivers. This was an area that we said FSU would need to win in order to win the game. And the 'Noles certainly did. Bert Reed being unable to get to that ball was infuriating, but he more than made up for it. He's had a frustrating career, but the last catch of his career, the best catch of his career, was the catch that really got FSU back in this ballgame.
And as the 'Noles say goodbye to one speed receiver, the 'Noles say hello again to Rashad Greene. What a stud. Green is amazingly fast with top-notch acceleration in and out of his breaks. And he's not a dummy, which is not something that can be said for a lot of the receivers FSU has had in the last decade or so. He has strong hands and understands the game. Greene had 5 catches for 99 yards, but the three he made for 33, 15 and 42 were just incredible. And give credit to Kenny Shaw, as well, for some big catches that didn't necessarily spark scoring drives, but kept drives alive and gave the defense a bit of a rest.
Now to the offensive line. Without Andrew Datko, David Spurlock, Bryan Stork, Jacob Fahrenkrug, Garrett Faircloth, Blake Snider and Rhonne Sanderson, this group started Zebrie Sanders, Josue Matias, Austin Barron, Tre Jackson and Bobby Hart. Ages? 22, 19, 18, 18, 17. Or in other words, senior, true freshman, true freshman, true freshman, true freshman.
Early on, they played like freshmen. And I've had a few e-mails asking what they did differently in the second half. My answer? Not much. The main thing is that they settled down. I think FSU had them prepared, but the moment was too big for them early on. The biggest thing was getting them to settle down. Good job by the coaches and the veteran players to get them settled down and focusing not on the moment, but on their assignment.
Know what else happened? The officials finally flagged Notre Dame for simulating the snap count (calling "hike/go/etc") and making FSU's players jump offisides. I noted this on twitter, along with the rest of my notes, but FSU's coaches were livid about this. Smart cheating by Notre Dame against a young offensive line.
Notre Dame's front seven is very talented. But FSU's offensive talent is even better. And as we saw last night, FSU's second teamers might even be better. FSU's offense was basically its second team last year. And perhaps the best thing they did was not dig too big of a hole.
And what can you say about the defense? I have a few thoughts there as well.
Great, great job. 4.0 yards/play by Notre Dame is by far their lowest of the year. FSU's defense is just sick. The preview basically said "offense, don't mess it up too bad; defense, go out and win it." That's pretty much what they did.
Why did Jimbo allow FSU to go with 18 scholarship defensive linemen? Because they were still fresh in the fourth quarter of the last game of the season.
I do want to credit Notre Dame's offensive line for not getting whipped by the FSU defensive line as most teams have.
Excellent play by Nigel Bradham and Christian Jones. Bradham made himself some money last night. And Jones is 6'4" and 240 pounds covering slot receivers? Are you kidding me? He made himself some money even though FSU gets him for another year. What a freak.
We've talked all year about how healthy, experienced units must cover for units that are lacking in one or the other, or both. It's strange how the defense stayed entirely healthy throughout the year.
That changed last night as FSU lost Greg Reid and Xavier Rhodes on the same drive. On most defenses, facing the offensive talent of Notre Dame, that would spell doom. But the 'Noles adjusted. They switched Lamarcus Joyner to corner, played Mike Harris at the other spot, and inserted Terrence Brooks at the vacated safety spot. And it worked great.
Mark Stoops and co. try to cross-train defensive backs at multiple positions for situations just like this. We here at TN (myself, Fat Dilfer, Nole Thru & Thru, DA-2, SWFLNole, etc.) have been really high on Brooks for a while because he's tough and very athletic. At this point, do you see Karlos Williams beating out Brooks? I don't. Maybe that means Williams moves to offense. He definitely needs more touches, and Brooks/Joyner is totally an awesome combo.
Think about all the starters that weren't there at the end of the game: 4 OL, top RB, Haulstead, Reid, Rhodes, McDaniel.
I said I did not like the playcalling against Miami. I did like it last night. Fisher tried everything and I thought they did about as well as could have been expected, given the circumstances. I liked the fake punt call. I liked going for two because of the justified lack of confidence in the offense and the supreme confidence in the defense.
Some fans don't believe in Fisher and this staff, but from the level of effort given by these kids, you can tell they sure do. And you can do a lot with this amount of talent and a staff that gets these guys to play hard. I don't like to overplay bowl game results, but this is a good win going into the off-season. And no, this doesn't take the losses to Wake Forest and Virginia off the board.
Oh, and I want to pat myself on the back for a preview that pretty much just nailed it.
I'll do the report card later. For now, enjoy the basketball game.
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Great write-up!
We’ve got a stable full of champions if we can keep them healthy and coach them up just a tad. Size, speed, talent, attitude all excellent. Can’t wait for next year.
great point about the team not quitting
I can’t really say why we it is, but even in the later Bowden years we didn’t quit on games. It’s been one of the most glaring differences between us and Miami, particularly in bowls.
by 38Noles on Dec 30, 2011 5:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I disagree. I saw FSU quit against Florida. I saw FSU quit against Clemson. And others in the latter BB years.
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I put those UF games in a different category since they were good enough to spank us even without quitting, but yeah it would probably be fair to say we gave up in those.
A better way for me to phrase it probably would be “we didn’t quit as often as I expected us to in the late Bowden years.”
by 38Noles on Dec 30, 2011 5:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
@ Clemson 05 was a total quit
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That’s one that comes to mind for me too.
by 38Noles on Dec 30, 2011 6:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We never even showed up there to quit.
Saw X Lee at chubbies that night partying after staring in the most embarrassing loss in Nole history. Made me sick to my stomach
that didnt stop us
From still hitting hard and hurting people, like lil ole 5’10 stanford samuels putting Roscoe Parrish from Miami in TMH for a few days..Miami was stomping us and we kept hitting and hitting and it was pouring down rain..we couldn’t get the offense going to get back in those games but I still didn’t see it as them quitting
by thornole on Dec 31, 2011 11:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don’t think the later Bowden teams win in same situation last night.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think so either. Mayb you could pick out some late 2000s games where we came back from a similar deficit, but not with a frosh oline, backup secondary etc.
by 38Noles on Dec 30, 2011 5:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
With the prowler defense?
We never get out of the hole in the first half.
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
I think Stoops could find a way to put karlos, joyner and brooks on the field at the same time, similar to what he’s done with our corners the past two years. I could see brooks playing the nickel with k williams and joyner at the safety spots.
Also I thought vince williams played his best game of the season last night. He was all over the field. The linebackers as a whole probably had their best game as a unit last night IMO.
Bud....
Would you think Jones, Joyner, Werner, Rhodes are gone after their junior seasons?
I hate to think about things to far down the road but from what I saw from Christian Jones and what Joyner/Werner have done all year, it’s a safe bet that the entire defense will either graduate or leave for the NFL after next year
#58 should be retired in honor of the most destructive force to ever wear garnet and gold
by Wire2Wire99Grad on Dec 30, 2011 5:31 PM EST reply actions
Yes
Maybe (size)
Yes
Yes
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I agree that all of those will probably leave early with the exception of Werner
Something tells me that he is a humble enough person to get his degree before he leaves.
If he gets his degree early I think he is gone after next season.
by DecidedSchematicAdvantage on Dec 30, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
See I disagree because he's older
You can always come back.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 30, 2011 8:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Older
AND married. Not sure if he has a kid yet, but a family man will put that first in that kind of situation.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
I wouldn't worry to much
, it’s a safe bet that the entire defense will either graduate or leave for the NFL after next year
When you replacing them with the kids that we have been picking up recruting. Timmy G, Waisome, Keelin, Los, A disgusting haul of defensive lineman this year, with people like PJ at DB and recruting at a level like that. It will definitly be tough to lose them all. But at least unlike for a decade we are replacing them with the talent to be great as well. And not just replacing them all with 1 or 2 players. But having the recruiting tools to recruit the Best to replace them as they leave. If they leave after next then People like Timmy, Los, Waisome will be Juniors, players like MEJ, Fowler, Casher, PJ, Howard hopefully, Shanks, will all be in there second years as well. So its gonna be a good defense for awhile as long as we keep recruiting
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
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Alot of that
money don’t buy senior memory’s stuff going around, never know…
Tomahawk Nation- Great FSU football and English lessons!
Yeah seems to be the trendy thing right now
by FSUjab on Dec 30, 2011 7:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It's a tough decision...
Because it’s the truth! You’ll never be around guys in that capacity. Even if you make it to the next level you must always remember that it’s a business.
Body, mind and spirit all need exercise. It'll take more than a day for your weaknesses to be revealed from the lack thereof but as time passes by the lack of strength will become more obvious!
I read where the new CBA in the NFL will make it more advantageous for underclassmen to stay for their 4th year
Unless they are First round material.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat"
by Blue Horseshoe on Dec 30, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
No, thats a big misconception
The money available to draftees has primarily been reduced for first round picks (Mainly the top 15 or so). Sam Bradford got 50m in guarantees (Total deal is potentially worth 78M) while Cam Newton’s entire deal is around 22 million. Malcolm Kelly was the 51st pick in the 2008 draft and got a 4 year $3.3M contract while Leonard Hankerson was the 79th pick in the 2011 and was signed to a 4 year $2.7M contract under the new CBA.
Darius Butler was the 41st pick in 2009 and signed a 4yr $4.125M contract while Ryan Williams was the 38th pick in the 2011 draft and received a 4 year $5M contract under the new CBA. So the money available hasn’t really changed at all for players picked after the first round. Therefore the new CBA wouldn’t be that much of a deterrent
by westcoastnolefan on Dec 31, 2011 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
And I believe its the guarenteed money that is limited
Bradford getting $50 guaranteed never stepping on the field had veterans like a Manning brother or a Brady or Superbowl winners going if they never played a down then must be worth 200 mill guaranteed
Can still be big contracts just not guaranteed and can be reworked after a year or 2
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love @caine115
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I agree, but at the same time,
College football seems to be a business too. Think about how many of these players are using College football as an avenue to the NFL. It’s kind of like an internship. I’m sure it’s a different environment, but if my parents weren’t doing well financially and I had an good opportunity to make big bucks, I don’t know if I would stick around for my senior year. I always tell myself I would stick it out if I were a Junior playing college football, but it’s a tough decision with pressure from the family often.
by Nole Patrol on Dec 30, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Couple of items...
1.) Is this the official unveling/foreshadowing of MattD’s new screen name (Fat Dilfer)
2.) I watched the game with someone who is quite knowledgable about football, and hadn’t watched FSU all year. It’s always interesting to get feedback.
- “I haven’t seen a safety like #20 all year in college football. Nobody plays the run and pass that well”
- “Manuel is a great athlete, but is predictable under pressure. He needs to learn to make better decisions”
- “There are 2 better defenses in the country than FSU, and they’re playing in the national championship game”
3) If there was ever a game that displays the level of talent disparity between the younger and older players this was it. Freshmen were EVERYWHERE.
4.) I was encouraged by the game. I really was. Unfortunately, this does not change my opinion on whether Jimbo can get it done week to week. Having a month to prepare is extremely advantageous, but IMO that game could’ve gone either way with a little smarter situational football by Notre Dame. They’re a great football team, so it wouldn’t have been a tragic loss.
5.) Did anyone else see Brian Kelly give his DL the “thumbs up” after getting called or simulating the snap count? What a dick…I do think he’s a great coach, and ND looks better than they ever did under Charlie Weiss.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
RE #4, I think you have to remember that Jimbo is still learning too. The fact that he is progressing is good. Ira had a good article today on that as well.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
It could have, sure, but ND also had the defensive score, which as we know, is a random event. FSU had 3x as many forced turnovers, but none were in a position where they could score them.
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True.
I am also on the cusp of considering the MIchael Floyd TD lucky. I mean, the ball was tipped at least 4 or 5 times, with NOBODY around him, and stayed within catching reach?
VERY lucky for ND. I thought Reid played that about as well as a 5’8 guy could.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
But he dropped a sure pass.
I look at it this way: FSU outgained Notre Dame on a per-down basis, was better in the RZ, was +2 on turnovers. To me, ND was a bit lucky to not lose by more.
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by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
On the Floyd drop, it’s obvious he was trying to locate #20 and took his eyes off the ball, which could’ve been the play of the game had he caught the ball.
Notre Dame was lucky to be in the game (our defense just at them for dinner), but you and I both know that it wouldn’t have mattered to the lay fan. If ND keeps with their game plan instead of letting a sophomore QB chuck into the EZ (again), their odds of winning go way up. That was just baffling to me.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
The funny thing is, and it might just be me, but
I just watched the postgame presser, and was it my imagination , or was LJ was still looking around the room for someone to hit?
by Tonto's Revenge on Dec 31, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you there,Bud
Lifes a SPEAR then U TRIBE!!!!!
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-CoachColey
"FSU can't beat Oklahoma,Clemson and the refs. I rarely harp this much on officiating, but they were truly brutal. Protectionism at its finest." BUD-ice
Did anybody else take offense to how much the announcer talked about Michael Floyd?
Holy crap i thought it was Patrick Young Deja Vu all over again. I was at the game and watched the replay late last night, and they never stopped talking about him. Also, for those of you that were at the game, did anybody notice that it seemed like it was a home game for ND (even though they technically were the home team but its still a bowl game, it should be neutral). It seemed like every close call for them, they got a replay on the screen which is a huge advantage to that team’s coach, but every close call for us, we got nothing. Also, it seemed like they played a lot more of their songs on the loud speaker and seemed to kill our fight song or war chant every time our band played it by putting something stupid on the loud speaker. It kind of swallowed our band which is very hard to do lol. I was a little disappointed in the bowl committee by doing that.
Nope.
He’s a great player. He’s literally all ND has on offense, and FSU did a good job in taking him outta the game plan, IMO
Outside of Broyles (and Watkins), he’s the best FSU saw all year.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Never said he wasn't a great player...
but if you watch the first half over again, you will notice they talk about him every time they are on offense. FSU did a great job of covering him. Did anybody else notice that Greg Reid was as high as Michael Floyd on that jump ball? pretty impressive for a 5’8" guy to jump with someone 6’4". Floyd just got a lucky tip to him. Great catch though.
Stills?
What was your roommates name? I most likely played with him...
-The one and only DRusso97
by RollNole5 on Dec 31, 2011 11:30 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Hes up there
But I think Broyles is better and so is Watkins. Stills is great and teams putting their best man on Broyles gives Still even more opportunities. Floyd has no one else at all to help on that offense
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love @caine115
F THE ACC ..|.. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I didn't feel that way...
Also, for those of you that were at the game, did anybody notice that it seemed like it was a home game for ND
Not sure what “close calls” went their way (I thought the refs were excellent). I couldn’t hear the Chiefs that well due to where my seat was located, but I know I was doing the Chop a lot…especially in the 4th quarter.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
Oh no, i wasn't saying there were bad calls,
but they never showed replays on the screen when their were close calls. I was really close to the band and couldn’t hear them very well because of the speakers being right near them. But, like you said it didn’t stop me from doing the chop. It was just very irritating.
Honestly, I think it feels that way to any fan...
But, I seem that way a couple of times. Having said that, I also felt like it was the best called game FSU was involved in all year.
by mountain renegade on Dec 30, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
The replay situation was maddening
Also, they kept playing the dropkick murphys during kickoffs. I felt like it was an away game too.
I felt like the crowd was 60-40 FSU
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
it seemed all the close spot calls went against us, but can't really say that's bad officiating
there was one call right before the Nigel-flip Joyner INT, where Notre Dame was given a 1st down but at least on TV the official was pretty clearly behind the yellow line. Definitely should have at least asked for a measure.
You guys are missing my point..
I am talking about on the jumbotron where they show replays after each play… For those of you who weren’t there, won’t understand. (not saying u weren’t) I am talking about how for each close call that really affected us they did not make a replay on the screen which would allow the FSU coaches to see it also and would allow them to get a better view on the play to decide whether to challenge or not. (plus its nice to see the replay as fans in the stadium). It was quite the opposite for Notre Dame. Also, If you don’t think coaches don’t watch replays… see Jimbos reaction at the 1:51 mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGYwJaqIzLU
Of course they are going to fawn over Notre Dame
The catholic church has tremendous influence nation wide and also among politicians. They are flush with cash, the thing that keeps the wheels spinning in America. I have heard some pontificate the cardinal in Boston has influence almost equal to a sitting president. You expect fairness by a bunch of media dupes? Crazy Lou is a perfect example here, there is no attempt at an even keel.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
by DocHoliday2 on Dec 30, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Lou Holtz is a Notre Dame shill because HE WAS THEIR COACH. No Catholic church conspiracy theories needed.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
It's sort of a Catholic thing.
But this:
I have heard some pontificate the cardinal in Boston has influence almost equal to a sitting president.
…is just silly.
What it really is is a lot of media hacks at ESPN and elsewhere are 30-, 40-, and 50-something northerners who listened to their idiot fathers babble about how great Notre Dame was back in the day before the Constitution was signed and black kids weren’t allowed to play. And it’s carried over through generations of high school dropouts who wouldn’t be able to find South Bend on a map if their lives depended on it.
As for Holtz, it’s because he coached them.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher
by Drew J Jones on Dec 31, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
The people in the booth definitely weren't favorable to FSU (played over the fight song multiple times, etc), but FSU won.......so SUCK IT.
#Scoreboard
P.S. – Anybody else notice that FSU scored a TD right after that obnoxious Irish song was blasted??
P.P.S. – 1st time in that stadium that I wasn’t on the field. Weird.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
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P.P.S. – 1st time in that stadium that I wasn’t on the field. Weird.
That’s your own fault. How epic would a pre-announced DRusso streak job halfway through the 3rd quarter on ESPN be?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
If would have to happen on a warmer day or in a dome. #GotAReputation2Uphold
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Minor point on #4
FSU and ND had the same prep time, so I’m not sure what you were saying. I didn’t see a dramatically different game called by Jimbo, although he did seem a bit less stressed than he was during the last couple of regular season games.
"He who hesitates, meditates in the horizontal position" Edmund Kealoha "Ed" Parker
What does Notre Dame’s prep time have to do with Jimbo’s regular season coaching?
I wasn’t comparing them head to head…not sure what point you are attempting to make.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
In the context of your initial statement about week to week, I was asking what
you meant by this: “Having a month to prepare is extremely advantageous…”
The rest was my opinion that I saw little different or new from Jimbo other than he wasn’t losing it on the sideline over the calls, G5, etc.
"He who hesitates, meditates in the horizontal position" Edmund Kealoha "Ed" Parker
Ah.
Essentially I meant I don’t take a bowl performance into consideration when evaluating this aspect of his performance. Good or bad, really. Wouldn’t have been the least bit shocked had we played a terrible 2nd half as well and ended up losing.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
For better or worse most people count wins and losses whether in the regular season or a bowl games. It is a plus also that Fisher generally realizes the importance of bowl games and seems to win them all. You go into the off season with some confidence.
His offense administered a pretty severe beating 41-14 to Notre Dame also in a bowl game vs LSU when Fisher was the offensive coordinator there.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
by DocHoliday2 on Dec 30, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
This comment is completely irrelevant to what I said.
But I’ll refute you because you’re just so far off base.
For better or worse most people count wins and losses whether in the regular season or a bowl games
Probably why bowl games are included in the final win/loss records, and factored into the final standings. Most of us knew this as 6 year olds.
It is a plus also that Fisher generally realizes the importance of bowl games and seems to win them all.
All 2 of them? I guess you’re content w/ playing on Dec 29. Most fans I know aren’t, and if the trend continues, FIsher will be winning pre new years day bowl games at another program.
His offense administered a pretty severe beating 41-14 to Notre Dame also in a bowl game vs LSU when Fisher was the offensive coordinator there.
Who cares? Honestly, why on earth do you consider this pertinent to the current conversation?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
one of my buddies
was just saying, he isnt going to the bowl next year unless its BCS. This was right after we finished winning the game. And while he can be a little offputting bc you want to support the program through thick and thin, I kind of get it. We are being sold a bill of goods. Its time for the recipe to cook the meal on the menu (terrible metaphor I know, but it makes sense in my head).
Just to be clear, Im a Jimbo fan, but Im tired of excuses, valid or not. X amt of years with someone sleeping at the wheel, then we are young, then we are injured, then we gave up on recruiting on offense to build up the defense.
I dont have the connections that most of you do, or admittedly the knowledge to packages, or skill sets. The point being, I can only trust what I see.
I see that we beat ND and UF, my two most hated teams, and UM, a game that made me a lot of money down here because there is always a sucker willing to throw down a nice chunk on the crappy canes. I also saw us lose to Wake and UVA. I literally dont care what any of you think regarding those two games, there is NO excuse to lose to them, ever. EVER. Fair, Logical, Intelligent, or not, I believe we should be able to bench every starter and win with backups against those two. thats just how it is.
/rant
wait, nevermind, one more. I still cant believe we lost to Wake. Damnit Jimbo…
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
I understand your viewpoint; we all want to win NOW
But from another point of view, why are we tired of excuses? We exceeded expectations in Year One, and a plague of injuries hampered progress in Year Two.
We seem to be saddling Jimbo with frustrated expectations from the last ten years – rather than looking only at his term.
Well put.
Ill admit that Im putting some of the extended past on Jimbo. When I say Im tired of excuses, I mean in general, not just the past two years. It went from Bobby skirted nepotism laws, to he doesnt want his son to be fired, to we’re one player away, to blahblahblah. Even at our worst and their best, losing to Wake wasnt acceptable. Thats like the color red to me being a fuming bull. I just get crazy.
When I say Im tired of excuses, I just dont want em anymore; just tell me we arent good enough. Lose to teams that are better, not so much worse.
I also think that some of the complaints are directed at things that are arguably within his control. We all want the learning curve to be quicker. People like me forget that he is still only a 2nd year HC. I think of how many years he was running the offense, learning from all the coaches he worked under. I want him to be great now. I see reaosnable complaints that never occurred to me when people mention his sideline demeanor. Stuff like that. It was mentioned in another thread, reasonable minds can and will differ.
Bottom line, I dont care how much more money the stupid gators have, Im sick of them having more rings. *
*went way off the reservation but you know what, I dont care. all things in this world should end with the gators losing at something.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
concerning jimbo
i think we as a fan base should agree to withhold judgement until after we have a season where we’re not plagued by injuries.
by booshigotyou on Dec 30, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm..here's a thought
I think the rate that we recruit will allow us to maintain the week to week success part as we continue to get flushed with talent. The sheer talent can overcome decision making when the gap is really really wide as I expect it to be in the ACC.
So it would be interesting to judge by what you mean “get it done week to week”
I think Trickett should have been fired at half time
'see da broad ta get tha booty yackum, layem down smackum yackum...ho got ta be.... shiiiiiit!' 'early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise'
Yes I'm kidding
just going with the TN theme, if the team doesn’t play perfect, somebody needs to be fired. I actually really like Trickett, he is very funny.
'see da broad ta get tha booty yackum, layem down smackum yackum...ho got ta be.... shiiiiiit!' 'early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise'
I understand frustration with Trickett, and you can't excuse everything by pointing at injuries,
but the line pulled it out for the win. I bet in a year or two when these 4 True Freshman aren’t true freshman people will have very different opinions on trickett assuming he isn’t fired.
by Nole Patrol on Dec 31, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Simple answer?
Not lose to teams like Wake Forest & Virginia. Beat the teams you are supposed to beat.
If the talent gap is as large as we all think it will be, there’s no excuse for losing those games. Period. Injuries or not.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Well not completely true because injuries factor into the talent gap. If you’re injured the gap lessens. It depends on who is injured and what the injury is, no?
by FSU on Jan 2, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
That's because when they were under Weis.....they were in shadow & subject to his gravitational pull.
ND looks better than they ever did under Charlie Weiss.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
Both of them. Even though he hasn't seen them in decades.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
see, sometimes I just have to agree with everything you just posted.
And that’s really aggrevating.
So far, the last 2 years we're 6-8 vs. teams with winning records. And we play in the ACC. Process is no substitute for Progress.
by PeachTreeNole on Dec 31, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Meh.
It’s immature to let personal feelings towards other posters cloud your reasoning towards individual thoughts and comments. For example, there are some posters whom I despise, but often agree with…then there are some that I despise because they just say dumb stuff every time they touch their keyboard.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
the insecurity I possess makes me wonder where I fall
*strokes goatee
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
Yes, I think we all know that feeling.
So far, the last 2 years we're 6-8 vs. teams with winning records. And we play in the ACC. Process is no substitute for Progress.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 2, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
j/k.
So far, the last 2 years we're 6-8 vs. teams with winning records. And we play in the ACC. Process is no substitute for Progress.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 2, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh corn...
You talking about what is immature is too much. Regardless of this being a couple days old:
Besides your mostly arrogant comments, there have been a multitude of posts by you personally attacking people under the umbrella excuse by saying you just cant tolerate people “[spewing?]” whatever it is you don’t agree with (and therefore “stupid” to you).
Waiting for the cliche “See what I mean” follow up comment….
And I’m perfectly relaxed too by the way.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
I love Terrence Brooks as much as the next guy.
But, to answer your question, yes I do see Karlos Williams beating out Terrence Brooks next year. Brooks should still see plenty of action in Nickel situations and what not.
Brooks would have played last night regardless of Karlos’s injury
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yes because Brooks was a better option this year. I expect big things from Los
once he gets Stoops’ defense down.
From reading the board here, Karlos seems to have a long way to go
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
A lot of responsibility playing the safety position in Stoops’ defense. Los is more talented than Parks but obviously Parks was the safer choice because he knew the playbook and knew the calls. Los is a freak of an athlete, but he needs get that playbook down. Brooks with Joyner next season with Los as the 3rd safety would be absolutely monsterous. Might be the faster set of safeties in the nation.
by NoleFanAtUCF on Dec 30, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Brooks plays other saftey spot next to Joyner 2012
It’s gonna happen. Los is an athletic freak. Brooks is intelligent enough with enough athletic ability to beat him out in 2012. I’ve been high on Brooks since he came in. NOBODY gave him enough credit. Just wait.
I hate you Off-season
Include me on that list of people who said Brooks would be a stud at safety.
He has the 4.4 speed, and he put on the weight to handle the safety position. No fly zone!!! I think Los will get his chance, but for us to compete for the ACC championship and a BCS bowl we need Brooks and Joyner to start at safety.
by NoleFanAtUCF on Dec 30, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, what happens if Reid and/or Rhodes leave early? We will be hurting for some new corners.
by Nole Patrol on Dec 31, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Reid and Rhodes are both staying next season..........
Rhodes will probably leave after his RS JR year. I could possibly see Brooks moving to CB as a senior.
by NoleFanAtUCF on Dec 31, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
If I were Rhodes and I got a good NFL eval, I'm gone
Rhodes is injury prone IMO, so he should get paid ASAP
Championship!
Also depends how bad his injury is
Hes not going to be doing any combines to impress if hes hurt and may need to come back to show it. But I never thought of Rhodes as being injury prone. He played every game this year didnt he?
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love @caine115
F THE ACC ..|.. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Imagine if Terrance Mitchell would've stuck w/ FSU
I think he’s just as good as Brooks, and we’d have yet another option back there w/ the same flexibility.
I can see why he flipped. Guy is all over the place at USF
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Brooks will defintely see
the field a lot more next fall regardless of whether he starts at safety or not. I would not mind Karlos being a wideout, I see him having the potential to be FSU’s version of Julio Jones. If that happens we are going to keep many a defensive coordinator up at night.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Jan 1, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
I know which one I wouldn't want to tackle on a punt return
LOS is a beast when he gets up a head of steam.
"He who hesitates, meditates in the horizontal position" Edmund Kealoha "Ed" Parker
Best score still is
FSU 1 ND 0! :) Thanks for the writeup, it’s great!
bud
Thought your write up pre game was perfect when I read it. I know you guys usually get into the numbers a lot but that write up was perfect. Just a look at the teams strenghts and glaring weeknesses. Thought for once officials let em play, as they usually do in bowls, and the fans were rewarded with a pretty clean game with amazing plays that athletes were allowed to make!
One thing though…where did ND get the paint for their helmets? They looked awesome and I was a lil jealous. Lifelong ND fan and have never seen em shine like that. FSU needs to get that paint code,
by pb4957 on Dec 30, 2011 5:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Thats funny because I thought the ND helmets looked like complete crap. Even said in the game thread that our Gold looked way better.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just thought they looked splotchy. Like cheap toys.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
From the stands,
the Domer’s domes were spectacular…extremely shiny. But after watching the replay today, I agree, they look like an amateur painting them. They need to sand those things before throwing on the next coat.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
They were certainly shiny, so I’m sure they looked awesome from the stands like you said
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 30, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Reminded me
of a bad paint job on a pinewood derby racer when they showed them up close. I’m imagining an equipment shed full of ten year olds with spray paint cans, giving them waaaay too many coats.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
The guy who spray paints ND's helmets only uses half on the helmets and he huff's the other half.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
As I look at the pic I have to agree the paint looks bad.
From the second level it looked great IMO. Seminole Boosters really got me some below average seats this season. Disappointed in that.
That dude is from the city where I work. Wheeling wv… classic, tribbett is his nqme
by FSUNole51 on Dec 31, 2011 7:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dude, that's SO weird.
My uncleis a Notre Dame homer, and that was the FIRST thing he said last night. “What the hell is up with those helmets?!?!”
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
they’ve used those helmets quite a bit this year.
by jasonole59 on Dec 30, 2011 6:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Notre Dame uses actual Gold in their helmets.
With that being said, at times the top of the helmets looked red under the lights, and their pants weren’t even gold, they were like faded yellow. FSU’s unis>>>>>>>>>>>ND’s unis.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Real gold? In THIS economy?
Such wasteful domers.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
Real Gold
As indicated above, they do use real gold. We were told, when taking a Notre Dame tour our with our son earlier this year, that the dome at Notre Dame is covered in real gold, and when it is cleaned they use the gold that washes off to paint the helmets. Another thing I notced was that every piece of brass in the bank was brand-spanking new. It was an interesting contrast to the instruments the Chiefs had when I saw them together in Winter Park.
We actually got "new" gold helmets back in October.
The opinion of the fan base is still pretty mixed for a multitude of reasons. One more thing to argue about….
Here’s a link to a side by side comparison of the old vs. new if you are interested.
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
Liked the old ones way better. They are classic Notre Dame. The new ones, as I said above, looked splotchy under the lights. Hopefully though thats just because the new process is being ironed out. Certainly more shiny
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Jan 2, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Bud, I appreciate you speaking on how rattled EJ looked in the first half...
I realize the OL was extremely young and played like it in the beginning of the first half, but EJ should have known this was coming. He probably saw this a ton in practice due to our DLine up against our OLine. His ability to get away from pressure and get rid of the ball has been a huge problem the second half of the year. There was a couple throws that he had plenty of time and had his feet east and west instead of stepping into the throw and consequently throwing an off target throw. As a RSJunior i expected him to be able to either a) allude the pressure to an extent b) see it coming and get rid of the football by either a check down or throw it away or c) take a sack of 5-6 yards instead of that spin move to his back shoulder that does not work 95% of the time and is a complete drive killer after a loss of 15. Now, I know a Qb’s confidence has a lot to do with the amount of pressure but this is something that needs to be changed over the spring. I don’t expect our OLine to be outstanding next year but good or decent. He will still have games that he will have lots of pressure, and if he makes mistakes like this, it could be disappointing. Don’t get me wrong I love EJ and think he is a great leader and a great image for the FSU program, but if we are going to be great and not good next year, he needs to cut out the freshmen like mistakes… I am probably taking to much out of this but let me know what y’all think.
Nigel Bradham's Improvement
I think we can all feel really good about the job that Coach Hudson is doing by looking at the improved play of Vince Williams and Nigel Bradham. I think he’s getting about as much out of Vince as he possibly can. And it looks like Nigel is finally playing like great player we thought he could be coming out of Wakulla. I thought he played fantastic the last half of the season and I agree that he probably made himself a little more money last night. We’ll definitely miss the newest version of him next year.
gotta also give credit to Michael@TN
He’s been preaching about Brooks for 2 and a half years. Glad he was right.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Dec 30, 2011 6:17 PM EST reply actions
can't wait
until c green has his breakout game.. love his athleticism
by booshigotyou on Dec 30, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Injured QB's
I also noticed that EJ was hurting bad and had a thought. I appreciate that Jimbo likes to stick with his guy, but at what point is a guy too injured? This is two years in a row that our QB is one hit away from the end of his career. If anyone else has the slightest concussion they are instantly shelved, but our QB’s play 8 games held together by duct tape. Is this what we can look forward to every year?
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Dec 30, 2011 6:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
EJ has all off-season to heal.
Alot of people thought the team NEEDED to win that game for various reasons. Jimbo could’ve been included.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Ponder in '10, EJ in '11
The only reason Ponder didn’t finish ’09 was because he required immediate surgery. It just seems to me that history would tell us that the ’12 season will rest on the shoulders of a battered EJ Manuel who will desperately need surgery (again?).
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Dec 30, 2011 7:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're not a Dr.
Just stop.
I hate you Off-season
The funny part is that I actually did.
Been on vacation and sleep deprived. Could be effecting my logic. I just found it interesting that in 4 years at FSU, Jimbo’s QB’s have avoided major injury in only one season.
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
Oh, and I'll pat myself on the back for my prediction.
250 yards on offense, with 2 TD’s and 2 FG’s, and hang on late to win 20-17! Pretty close if I do say so myself :)
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
I agreed with Bud that 16-14 FSU sounded about right and it sure was close.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
by DocHoliday2 on Dec 30, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Wow! That is close.
Was that in his game preview?
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Dec 31, 2011 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or even 14-18
All ya gotta do is get 'em.
by noleinjax on Dec 31, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If history repeats itself
and a battered EJ will be leading us in 12, then I cringe at the thought of Trickett having to carry on the rich tradition of broken and bruised FSU QBs.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
That's why we got Coker ;)
MEJ will be his backup.
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Dec 31, 2011 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Edwards is really good...
but I don’t think they’ll have him playing on both sides of the ball. Think you meant Winston ;)
MEJ's backflip is a good escape move
for avoiding the rush.
Sarcasm, hence the ;)
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
officiating
So that’s what a game with good referees is like. It was the first game all year referees didn’t ruin the game for me.
by sdw345 on Dec 30, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it was a JOY to have played, actually, our last two games of 2011
without having the flow of the game disrupted, blatant missed calls and the biggest post-game controversies being the performance of our ACC referees.
You know I finally figured it out
We haven’t been watching bad officiating all year, we’ve just been watching Mr Magoo meets Groundhog Day
by Tonto's Revenge on Dec 31, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
You are so very correct.
Goodgawdamighty, why can’t the ACC see and correct how absolutely f’ng terrible their officiating is. Can they (the ACC) not afford any damned better.
It's not just on them
Left to their own devices, the conference will absolutely settle for dreck officiating-we saw it for ourselves this season. The rest of the nation saw it in some of the mystifying penalty calls that marred the Alamo Bowl.
There absolutely must be a conference-wide push for better football officiating, and we absolutely must drive that effort. With all of the horrible calls that went against us this year, if we do not lead that push, we will have no one to blame but ourselves if nothing changes.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Dec 30, 2011 10:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Something definitely needs to be done about the refs. FSU would have probably lost that game with ACC refs even though Notre Dame is not in the Carolinas
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
by DocHoliday2 on Dec 30, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like the ACC is happy with the state of officiating.
The bat phone rings at the ACC officials office, and they know when its screwjob time against FSU
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
What baffles me the most
Is that Ron “The Business” Cherry was the ref for the Washington/Baylor shoot out, and somehow managed to not ruin the entire game.
"Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in"
Imagine what the score would've been
If Cherry and his boys hadn’t been the refs…
by NoleySmokes on Dec 31, 2011 8:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That would be
the Duke (aka The Graphics Was Blocked) game…
Did Luc log any minutes last night?
Just curious, and unable to navigate the Seminoles web site to find out for myself.
Pursue some path, however narrow and crooked, in which you can walk with love and reverence.
Henry David Thoreau
by slumgullion on Dec 30, 2011 8:53 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
If he did i dont recall him on any,plays...
by FSUjab on Dec 30, 2011 9:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I saw him in for Bradham a few plays. I think in 2nd half.
by FredGarvin...NoleProstitute on Dec 30, 2011 9:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It never ends. Our hoops and baseball coverage is also very good, and we’ll pick up the recruiting more next year as well.
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Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
next year as in a couple days away that is.
i’m assuming is what you meant.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
At least we have baseball to look forward to. I can't watch Hamball. I'd rather be waterboarded.
All ya gotta do is get 'em.
can't get the image to work
but devonta freeman can levitate
link
by booshigotyou on Dec 30, 2011 9:00 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
That. Is. AWESOME.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Follow @shonole
Freeman levitating is fine
as long as the football levitates with him.
I don’t get it. His right foot is clearly on the ground.
What was your roommates name? I most likely played with him...
-The one and only DRusso97
you almost have to magic eye it
stare at it long enough, and it kinda looks like he is levitating.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
Bud, what you saw in that.................
4th quarter from E.J. as well as much of he team was what i caught so much flak for talking about a year and a half ago……………………HEART!
Also, I was happy to Finally see some 2nd half adjustments. 10-25 years ago we always came out and looked strong after a weak first half. I hadn’t seen a lot of that lately untill last night. It was refreshing to see. I, too, think Jimbo is learning as a head coach. I think he’s good right now and hope to see him great next year. He mentioned the team learned a lot this year from adversity.I think he did also. Now, lets just go sign another great class. GO NOLES!
P.S. We don’t always agree, but thanks to all of you guys for giving the best info on Nole football in history.
Agreed that Jimbo is learning
My biggest criticism of him has been our inability to win close games. Something changed in this game. Time management was never an issue. No boneheaded penalties keeping the other team in the game (though a non-ACC officiating crew surely helped here). No defensive meltdown after 57 minutes of dominance. And three consecutive scoring drives in crunch time. In other words, we closed this game out. Sounds simple, but it hasn’t usually been the case when we’ve had the opportunity. If we can close like this next year, there will be very few games (if any) that we can’t win.
by BobLoblaw113 on Dec 31, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Not so sure about that.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy about the win, but we were very fortunate as well…
Bradham facemask after the bad punt from the endzone and ND gets the ball at the 28. (there’s your boneheaded penalty). And Offense could not get the 3rd and one to finish them off. Not trying to take anything away from this win, but we had some mistakes.
And I love Brooks’ interception, but it really was a boneheaded QB play and not a spectacular defensive play. Also the reason it took place was a holding penalty, which was huuuuge.
will our fab freshmen develop or stagnate?
That to me is the question of 2012. Hopefully, we will avoid Jeff Bowden’s player development plan which is on video somewhere.
Very good analysis
That is something very over looked, the players do certainly believe in Fisher and this staff. I would feel much better about it all next season knowing if Manuel gets hurt again Coker is groomed enough to get some minutes.
I think we can assume that Chris Thompson is not coming back from this injury. Honestly that leaves one legit cut back runner for next year and that is Freeman with Pender coming in. That is not near enough. Another running back has to be found this recruiting season. I suppose you could start Chad Abrams at fullback and let Pryor run the ball more but that is not really a very good option either.
If they don’t get another option, Karlos Williams might have to play some running back next year.
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
I'd like to see Karlos at WR
That puts us thin at safety but who could match up with him? Jimbo loves him some big WR’s. # 82 WH is sill a question mark.
by Rapper Odell on Dec 30, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
He'd be wasted at WR
Someone with his athletic skills I want on the field as much as possible but after having him spend a year at safety, having him start over at a position we are so deep at seems short sighted to me.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 31, 2011 11:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Agreed
No reason we can’t get Los, Joyner, and Brooks al on the field on defense next year, especially since the latter two could also play CB in the nickel package. Wouldn’t mind seeing him get a few touches on offense, but a position change is silly imo.
by BobLoblaw113 on Dec 31, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I think he'd dominate at wide receiver
From what I’ve seen he’s much, much better when he knows where he’s going than having to read and react like a safety.
Athleticism shines at WR more than any other position on the field.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
""--;;--ⒻⓁⓄⓇⒾⒹⒶ-ⓈⓉⒶⓉⒺ--;;-->
by freshcollegeboy on Dec 31, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
he played some WR in HS
and dominated. FTR, I’m fine with Los as S & Kickoff Returner… that’s enough time on the field around the ball for me.
Championship!
I’m very torn on this one as well. Like AMF said it seems foolish to waste all this time training him to be a S then switch to WR. However you also want to get the most out of him which could be at the WR spot. IMO I feel the same about JWJ. I know he wants to be a RB but if he’s naturally suited for LB should we move him there?
Michael Flyod TD Catch & GR5
on MF TD catch, shouldn’t GR5 have batted down the ball instead of catching it ? GR5 tries to do too much and doesn’t play fundamentally sound and becomes liability ?… He played great game otherwise …
this is our time ! it ain't their time .. this is F Shhhh U time ! ..
I was fine with it, because of how poorly FSU’s offense was playing.
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Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
by Bud Elliott on Dec 30, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
GR5 did same thing in OKlahoma game !
GR5 went for catch in 1-1 battle with flemming or their No 2 WR reciever in go ahead TD for Oklahoma …As soon as XR went down, ND started targetting MF more as G5 was covering
this is our time ! it ain't their time .. this is F Shhhh U time ! ..
That's actually not true
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 31, 2011 11:20 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
It was Stills, and Reid was beat no matter what he tried to do on that one
That play was lost before the ball was even snapped. As for this game, I don’t really remember seeing Reid on Floyd except for the TD catch, and I thought he played it about as well as possible.
by BobLoblaw113 on Dec 31, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
He played it perfectly
I have no problem with him going for the pick in that situation. Thar MF caught it was lucky as hell.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Dec 31, 2011 11:19 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Completely agree with this.
1.) I thought Reid played the ball as well as he possibly could, considering the size disparity
2.) Lucky bounce for ND. Ball stayed w/in reach, and no FSU defenders around to bat it away or knock him down.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Is it realistic to think that Karlos is more likely to end up on offense rather than defense?
If we are able to stay healthy next year, I just don’t see where there’s a chance for Los to see a ton of snaps. He may be the biggest freak of an athlete we have on our team and it would be a shame to see a guy like that spend another year limited to special teams. I know our receiving depth is ridiculous, but can he be a flex guy that lines up in the backfield, out wide, in the slot, etc? I feel like learning offense may be easier for him since it is more structured, rather than the more instinctual position of playing safety in Stoops’ D. However, this may be to much to ask of him. IMO, a perfect scenario would be switching Wilder to D and Los to O
i would like to see CJF and Stoops work out a trade, Wilder to LB, LOS to whatever he wants... :)
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Dec 30, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to see Los play some at RB. He seems to have great instincts and will slap truck a guy.
I can see them doing everything possible to keep him on the field next year but it’ll be on D IMO. I could see him playing some at LB before moving him to O.
by jenolesone on Dec 31, 2011 3:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My Perfect Scenario: Wilder and Los on Defense..
Los has the mental make-up to master the position. It isn’t too much to ask of him. He’s just a freshmen that has to learn just like everyone else did. Lamarcus Joyner didn’t start his freshmen year either. It is only going to benefit him because if we would’ve put him in too early and he loses confidence in himself because he’s missing assignments and giving up points then that could be detrimental to his development. Parks struggled his 1st year in Stoops system but look how much he improved from then to now. Karlos being only a freshmen has that advantage of being able to sit and learn. I believe it was Lamarcus Joyner or Telvin Smith that even praised him by saying that he is going to be the “Rashad Greene” of the defense.
Karlos Williams
Karlos has way more up side then at free safety; he will get at many snaps next year. Brooks will get alot time as Joyner’s backup an at nickel corner. Los can become aLaron Landry/Sean taylor type player, if he works really hard. You don’t move that type of talent to offense. The offense has potential very good big targets Kelvin Benjamin, Nick O’leray, and maybe Will Tye.
by Oort Cloud Nole on Dec 31, 2011 1:05 AM EST reply actions
Great Review.... Few added Thoughts.
EJ Manuel: When he has time to throw he will eat defenses up w/ his ability to run and “PASS ACCURATELY”… I think in the 1st half he was just worried about too many things and it kind of got to him a little bit. He had to worry about the fact that he has 4 freshmen trying to block for him plus he had to worry about his blind side because they were blitzing like crazy. As soon as we snapped the ball, ND was in his face. Jimbo made a great halftime adjustment in going to shotgun spread for most of the 2nd half. It forced ND to have to play the pass and stop blitzing because we kept 4 receivers on the field.
OLine: Agree w/ you on the 1st half jitters. They weren’t even able to setup right. The upside here is tremendous. They were bullying ND the 2nd half… Credit to Jimbo for helping them and EJ out by going spread…
James Wilder: Liked a few things I saw but I agree w/ you; that run play in which it looked like it took him a year to get to the outside was clearly suppose to be a cut. I saw that from my TV set.. I liked him as a RB but he just isn’t a cutback and go type of runner.
Xavier Rhodes: Was doing a great job one on one w/ Floyd. His Press at the LOS is impressive.
Greg Reid: What is this guys vertical???
Lamarcus Joyner: Best Safety in FSU history….
Rashad Greene: Future 1st Round Lock..
Only Disagreement: T. Brooks and Karlos Williams..
Brooks played a great game and is a great football player too… But Karlos Williams; I have no doubt, will be starting at safety. This guy is a physical freak. There hasn’t been a player that you can honestly say he reminds you of the late Sean Taylor and yet that’s the only person I can think of when I see Karlos on the field. Plus Stoops wants a player w/ his type of size to be that extra enforcer. I really like Brooks at safety too but I feel that he could play cornerback and be just as effective. He has the ideal size and athletic ability to excel. Plus we will need somebody who is familiar w/ the system and I feel that Brooks can feel in perfectly in Mike Harris’s nickel/boundary role next season.
I was thinking the same thing about Reid................
His hands were right with Floyd’s. At 5’8", his vertical has to be around 37" to 41". Crazy
by NoleFanAtUCF on Dec 31, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Karlos Williams; I have no doubt, will be starting at safety. This guy is a physical freak.
Doesn’t matter if he can’t be in the right place. Safety is much more about brains and physical ability compared to CB or WR
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by freshcollegeboy on Dec 31, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yea but....
what have we seen that leads any of us to believe he doesn’t have the mental make-up to excel at the position. When I look at how dominant he was in his kick return abilities it further proved to me that he will be a star a safety or at any position he wanted to play. His on field awareness is definitely evident…. Look at other examples of star players that showed great kick return abilities (ala. Sammy Watkins,Peter Warrick, Deion Sanders, Percy Harvin, Patrick Peterson, CJ Spiller, Lamarcus Joyner, Greg Reid, Reggie Bush, etc) . These guys had/have a high on-field IQ that also carried over to there normal positions in which they were able to dominate too. Karlos Williams being able to be a valuable kick returner gave me confidence in his overall football abilities. He is smarter than a lot of people think he is. Many of us believe that if a freshmen isn’t receiving playing time his 1st year then it must mean he can’t play. He had a good safety and seasoned veteran in T. Parks in front of him, so I didn’t see nothing wrong w/ allowing him to sit his 1st year and learn. Karlos even said during his UA Game interview that he didn’t come to FSU to start day-1 and that he had no problem w/ sitting and learning the system. We saw how Parks struggled in his 1st year in the system but how he came on strong this year. Karlos will be better off in the long run. Sean Taylor didn’t start his freshmen year either…
Agree
Jajuan Harley is another physical freak. Great size and 4.3/4 speed, but we see how that worked out. (Not saying Los and Jajuan will end up the same – I don’t think they will, just that physical attributes don’t guarantee success.)
I don't think Jajuan Harley....
was a special teams standout or kick return standout.
Good write-up. Covers just about everything.
I think this was an important win. No, it doesn’t erase this season. But it adds another good talking point for recruiting and some mojo going into the off season workouts.
So far, the last 2 years we're 6-8 vs. teams with winning records. And we play in the ACC. Process is no substitute for Progress.
After watching the replay, late in the game EJ's knee definitely had some problems
Those 3 and 4 wide gun sets helped him stay off it alot
There has been some smoke..
about Karlos possibly switching to RB in the spring.
by GAMnole on Dec 31, 2011 10:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Karlos would be a beast....
at either Running Back, Wide Receiver, Linebacker or Safety… We don’t need him at running back so I just don’t see that happening. I think we could benefit if we gave him some offensive touches at certain points in the game (RB Screens, WR Screens or quick route) and let him use his talent to torch defenses but he is needed more on defense. We saw what happened when we lost Greg and Xavier… We need as much depth as we can get and Karlos is a BIG part of it… Like I said I Terrance is a renaissance type of player that can excel in multiple positions just like LOS but having Karlos at safety will have a much bigger impact on games as far as being a pure intimidator in the back end. The coaches should think about moving Brooks to corner to take over Mike Harris’ responsibilities in nickel and boundary situations but also have him as a back-up at safety in case Joyner or Los ever go down w/ an injury…
Overall Defense:
I just want to reiterate that our defense only gave up 7 pts to Notre Dame, on a play in which Greg Reid made the play on the ball but lost the battle to a 1st round receiver. We could very well have the number 1 defense in the nation next season. I think we were around 4 or 5 in total rank defense this year. I hope Xavier Rhodes decides to come back w/ Reid for a final season because that would seal the deal for our secondary. Going from 5th total rank defense to 1st or 2nd total rank defense is a huge difference. If our defense makes that jump next season w/ an offense that will be improved, that could very well be enough to push us to the BCS National Championship Game.
Have to think "tweaking" the knee might keep Rhodes in GG next year.
Defense prob with all thing taken in gave up 10 points. That first drive was easily 7 or 3 and the catch by Floyd was the same…so 10 points to a top 25 team…
A lot of it due to the offense not being able to scratch their own butts though as well, so prob 3 points due to crummy field position and no offensive pressure. Only 4 sacks because ND had the luxury of running more. If they had to pass….OMG Becky, look at her butt!!!
I haven't seen a replay yet so I could be wrong
but even early in the game it didn’t seem like the offensive line was beaten physically very often. Missed assignments and mental lapses obviously doomed them early in the game, but I don’t recall more than a play or two when someone just flat out beat one of our guys. That’s probably what I’m most encouraged about, because it means that we have the talent to dominate up front. The mental aspect will come with experience.
Saw the same thing
1st half problems were due to miss assignments—most (not all) defenders getting into the backfield were untouched… that CB blitz (Slaughter) wasn’t picked up at least twice. Physically, however, the teenagers held there own against a big, physical front 7.
Championship!
Agree...
Our lineman are big and strong. We need to take this group of 4 freshmen into next season. They just need the reps in order to get mentally strong and confident enough to know they can dominate together. We weren’t getting manhandled and thrown around like rag dolls up front. It was just mental issues..
If Krug and/or Glauser can start, and injuries allowing
Should we RS 1-2 of the bowl starters next season? Do we really want all four guys leaving at the same time in a few years? (Not to mention that the two JUCOs I mentioned will be gone by then as well.)
With the current recruiting class – provided we don’t pick up any other OLs – are we positioning ourselves for another shortage down the road?
we are definitely not in good shape in OL recruiting...
which is going to hurt us if we don’t correct it for the 2013 recruiting class… A team needs to recruit O-linemen year in and year out in order to build that “next man-up” type of depth. We only have 1 OL commit so far and that comes from a JUCO recruit. That’s not good. And players like Peat are not a guarantee to commit to us on signing day. We need at least 2 or 3 more lineman this year w/ at least 2 being high school freshmen…
Correction:
w/ at least 2 coming out of high school as freshmen…
EJ
EJ made the kind of plays in the 4th Quarter we expected him to be able to make after seeing some good signs in ‘09 and ’10. When he’s got his head right, he’s a seriously impressive QB. Really just a question of whether he can learn to do it consistently.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
"We'll be here 'til midnight. We ain't not gonna practice."
- Jimbo Fisher
Good Question:
I just want JWJ to be mature enough to know and understand what position we really need him at and be excited about changing positions. I have been Pro “Wilder at RB” from the beginning but looking at the bigger picture, he will never have the type of impact we need, and want him to have, on the offensive side of the ball. Him at linebacker is needed more than ever; especially if the A. Jenkins situation doesn’t end well, and/or we don’t close out strong recruiting linebackers this year. We are going to be able to recruit talented RB’s year in and year out to keep the depth up and Freeman and Pender should be able to hold the Fort up until we are ready for the next crop. JWJ is one of the more talented players in the nation but he won’t reach his potential if he doesn’t play to his strengths….. He could continue to to stay at RB and be a solid contributor for us going forward but his impact is at defense.
Is it a sure thing that Chris Thompson is done?
by BobLoblaw113 on Dec 31, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Broken back...prob.
Wilder will be fine with one more year. We all forget he is a Frosh who got little playing time. He isn’t even playing a position he has had a lot of training for.
One more off season and a year of carries and it will be boom or bust but remember the kid is just a Freshman…I know Freeman was the man but he has played rb for years and was solid before he got here. If not for injury to others (too many) would be getting less carries. Next season with Wilder as a solid #2 to start and Pender coming in is pretty good IMO.
I don't think anything has been said officially
But with the severity of his injury that’s the assumption.
by cbs_24 on Dec 31, 2011 5:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He definitely wants to come back.
And he has the heart of a lion. Don’t underestimate him.
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Follow @shonole
Dang check out Telvin Smith's anticipation at the 1:24 mark...
http://www.seminoles.com/allaccess/?media=290403
Shot through the line like a cannon. Really impressive… also Nigel stuffing the ND RB. Defense is fast and fierce.
Freeman looked PISSED at the end of this clip..
have any idea why?
he got benched after the fumble on the first play
JWJ was in for almost the whole 1st half
by reid-the-manuel on Dec 31, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Why is that funny?
Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole
Follow @shonole
In one of the postgame interview Jimbo said Freeman was crying because he felt like he had hurt the team with the fumble........
Just shows how much this team cares about each other and winning football games. Even after a win, Freeman still was upset. Shows a lot of heart and character. Freshman mistake, but the kid is our RB of the future.
by NoleFanAtUCF on Jan 1, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
thats good to know....
I saw him and JWJ taking pictures and laughing and having a good time after the game. I never saw him crying until i saw this video. Very interesting. I like players with a lot of emotion and passion
I like how Jimbo went up to him and was like “whats the matter man, you had a hell of a football game. You’re a great player and had a great game.”
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Dec 31, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
yes and
the halftime show they copied WVU band with the plane thing. I guess they can’t come up with anything original.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjPmmCtHmfE
Jameis Winston post after the game.........
Jameis Winston RT @ UnleashthaBeast # Fsunation be sure to take this experience in cause this will be our last non BCS game in the next 4 yrs.
Love this kid, he will do great things here.
Great game gents.
Apologies for not getting over here to say so before now. Your defense is absolutely outstanding and your offense made the plays that they needed to make to win. Hat tip.
We will be looking forward to the next time.
whiskey
www.onefootdown.com
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