"Offensive" Output
by ricobert1 on Feb 10, 2011 4:51 PM EST
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PrintMy frustration with our offense almost makes me sick. I have to remind myself that this is just a sport, and nobody is stealing anything or dying from it. A look at the KenPom on our team suggests that there are a lot of things wrong with our offense.
In 2011 our turnover percentage (23.2%, 302nd) is atrocious, but this is not a new development: We've never finished the season under a Hamilton-led team any better than 2003 (21.2%, 151st). 3 other offensive abominations stats stick out: 32.5% on threes (251st), 65.5% on free throws (266th), and last and certainly least 10.9% of our possessions end with the ball being stolen (291st).
Throwing out the free throws (ha), look what these aggregate statistics point out:
- We can't dribble or pass successfully when pressured
- We can't shoot threes. Chris Singleton is #1 on the team at 36%, but hasn't taken enough threes to qualify for inspection. Deividas Dulkys has taken 114 threes this season, hitting only 39 (34.2%) . Of the 20 players in the conference who have averaged 1.5 threes per game, Dulkys is 19th out of 20 (GT's Brian Oliver proudly reigns over the ignominious 20/20 spot).
Somehow, we're reliving the Rich/Swann/Mims era of FSU basketball.
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Before I saw it, actually
Consider this an overflow of disgust.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
We need dribbling drills. We lack fundamentals in the game.
Did anyone see Syracuse-GTown last night?
Did you notice how they broke down the Syracuse zone.
They took maybe one three pointer – the rest were layups!
And it’s because of slick one two passing and a plan-of-attack to beat the zone.
It can be done!
2 words: passing. drills.
I’ve seen 85 year old drivers with better passing skills.
We're the other type of 85 year-old that says "I'm comin over" without bothering to look
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
So, if we shoot nearly 50% on 2 pointers, why the f do we shoot so many 3's?
Over 1 out of ever 3 shots is a 3 point attempt.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Can you run a halfcourt set in the motion offense without the 3?
I say no. Half the screens are for the wing and backcourt guys.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
Which goes back to us having a poor offense.
We run shit that doesn’t suit our personnel. Even if it fit our personnel, the coaches suck at implementing it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Duke runs the exact same offense
but they can A) hit the open 3 with regularity 2) can dribble D) can pass.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
And have better coaching.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
They're also recruiting a completely different calibre of player
Follow me on Twitter for FSU Basketball news
Yes, they get the tippy top guys
We go straight for high athleticism. Duke gets highly athletic, coachable, higher basketball IQ guys who can shoot.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
Exactly. Duke can get NBA type athletes who are polished,
we can get NBA type athletes who are raw. We could also get polished kids who aren’t NBA type athletes, but they couldn’t execute Ham’s defense.
Follow me on Twitter for FSU Basketball news
by norcal_nole on Feb 10, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bro, copy and paste into every article/preview/review you write from here on out
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
the latter sounds like a certain luke loucks to me
polished, but lacks athleticism and makes stupid passes when athleticism fails
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Norcal, check out this old article on the zone by TC from 2 years ago
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2008/12/20/698526/basketball-offensive-schem
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
great article.
I could do x’s and o’s posts, but doubt there’s much interest beyond the 5 or 6 typically around on gameday.
Follow me on Twitter for FSU Basketball news
It's hard to generate interest here on X's and O's
because we are such a chaotic, ugly product to watch. However, it is the method Bud used to develop TN back in the day – so you never know who you’ll win.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
don’t know how to run an offense and set up a good shot.
If you give Dulkys a ball and let him stand on the court by himself he could hit a ridiculous high % of 3s. The problem is that they (the whole team) doesn’t know how to set up an offense to get a guy open for easy shots. Honestly, this is a criticism from last year (I’ve refused to watch a game this year). The team rushes the play. They can’t run an offense. I think a lot of that comes from poor passing and the team gets wary of long setups and just rush the first “maybe” shot they get.
"Each of us possesses a tangible living soul. The system has no such thing. We must not allow the system to exploit us." - Haruki Murakami
"bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!." - James Joyce
"I know more than I can express in words, and the little I can express would not have been expressed, had I not known more." - Vladimir Nabokov
I actually disagree
Go back and look at the shots Dulkys missed; he’s getting the looks. We’re taking the 3s when the shot is there. The ability to make them just isn’t.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
Don't listen to people who complain about us not running a halfcourt set
That’s not our offense – by design. The motion offense is all about screens and moving without the ball (hence, motion offense).
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
So that begs the question
are we simply not setting good screens or not moving enough without the ball?
Screens and ball movement is there
We’re missing open 3 point shots consistently. And we can’t dribble or pass when we try to go inside. CF
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
I don't know much about the x's and o's of basketball.
I just know we aren’t good at it.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
by tricknole on Feb 10, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually I don't really listen to anyone about Basketball, lol
I completely defer to you as I am a relative newb when it comes to BB 101. It took me quite a while to get over my natural instinct to quickly change the channel watching any basketball game. But I watched a few of the Tony Douglas ones with some upsets of UNC and Duke and I ended up liking college BB a decent amount.
Then as I watched just enough to tell what was going on, I realized that FSU’s O-game was just terrible and that they relied on one really talented guy to score a lot of points, Douglas, and then the one after him, etc. until Hamilton ran out of these guys and was left with a bunch of bigs and white guys who cant shoot 3s. As soon as I saw that coming and Ham didn’t make the coaching change that I hoped for, I jumped ship.
So I don’t know about the different offenses specifically and I haven’t watched the games this year. But last year specifically, setting up the play and patience on the play were both huge problems. It seemed the Dukes and UNCs were happy to pass the ball around, set up the play and take a quality shot with only a few seconds remaining on the shot clock, whereas FSU goes back down and takes first half-assed long FG, misses or just turns the ball over on a ridiculous pass. Just too frustrating to enjoy.
If the system was good and the players not so much, that’d be one thing. But we have talent. We have athletes. They just don’t know what the hell to do with the ball.
"Each of us possesses a tangible living soul. The system has no such thing. We must not allow the system to exploit us." - Haruki Murakami
"bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!." - James Joyce
"I know more than I can express in words, and the little I can express would not have been expressed, had I not known more." - Vladimir Nabokov
Don't take my word for it, I'm a newbie too on basketball!
Do your own research and come up with your own conclusions – that’s half the fun of this site!
But we have talent. We have athletes. They just don’t know what the hell to do with the ball.
Very low basketball IQ. FSU hoops is officially FSU football of early 2000s.
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
Guess we should shoot the 3 every time.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
But offensive players are more likely to get the board on a 2 attempt than a 3,
I’ll have to see if I can find the exact numbers. Plus missed 3s lead to more fast breaks. Plus plus proper entry passes and post footwork are easier to teach than how to make a three, so in theory, if we had the coaching, it would be much easier to improve our 2s.
Follow me on Twitter for FSU Basketball news
RE:GT
we look better vs the press than last year.
"Each of us possesses a tangible living soul. The system has no such thing. We must not allow the system to exploit us." - Haruki Murakami
"bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!." - James Joyce
"I know more than I can express in words, and the little I can express would not have been expressed, had I not known more." - Vladimir Nabokov
There was a foolproof way we got over our basketball woes in the 90s...
We didn’t care about basketball… And it still works.
by NoleDBA00 on Feb 10, 2011 7:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
X's and O's
Have we had a basketball team since Pat Kennedy left? I have some fleeting images of a team playing in tournaments lately but then the image fades to……….black?
PG
Though we are missing open looks, how much of our lack of success is predicated on the lack of success of developing Kitchen into a “true” point guard? Toney ran the point and was an aggressive scorer as well. Kitchen lacks aggression most nights and cannot effectively get the ball where it needs to go. I don’t believe he was ever the guy for the position but he was/is our best option. I think Toney developed Toney into a solid point guard, Kitchen has not had the same success but I will not blame him for it.
before I read anyones comments, I read ricoberts intro and was like "hmm...i think our offense was alright, not the best, but not horrible"
then i realized this is about basketball. fail
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Just a quick shout-out to elite defensive numbers there
Who or what are you glorifying with your life?
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