Florida State Seminoles Football Spring Preview 2011: Cornerback
This is the eighth in a multi-part series covering Florida State Spring football practice. Previously, we looked at quarterback, receiver, running back, offensive line, defensive end, defensive tackle, and linebackers. Today, a look at the cornerbacks.
Do Florida State fans know how lucky they are? Seriously. Is there another team in the country with a better set of cornerbacks? Not likely. FSU has a wealth of talent at the position. No, the pass defense for the 41st-best defense last season was not spectacular. But that is universally accepted as being mostly the fault of the safeties; a group we'll see tomorrow.
Usually, you find the "out for Spring" designation at the end of the article. But when arguably the best player on the team is out, it goes here. Xavier Rhodes, the 6'2" 207 lb red-shirt sophomore made the all-conference team last year. He'll again man the boundary this season, but for now he's recovering from surgery to fix a nagging groin surgery that at times limited his play to just good, rather than spectacular.

Greg Reid
Junior
5'8" 185
Field Cornerback
2010 saw improvement for Greg Reid. He won the field corner spot and his play was good overall. But that "good" was a product of both great and awful games. At times, he was the best player on the field. Then he'd be the worst player on the field.
The talent is there for Greg Reid. He has excellent quickness and instincts. His hands are decent as well. But mostly Reid offers quickness. He's a natural playmaker.
However, Reid lacks size and speed. Some might confuse his quickness with speed, but that would be an error. Greg's quickness allows him to reach top speed quickly, but that top speed just isn't all that fast. And with that playmaker mentality, he brings risky play. To his credit, however, once he received some coaching Reid did drastically cut down on the freelancing he exhibited in his freshman season.
This year Reid needs to continue to improve his technique, and most importantly his consistency. To expect him to play like he did in the Chick-Fil-A bowl in every game is unrealistic, but it's not unrealistic to expect no repeat performances like the Oklahoma game last season. The coaches always compliment his work ethic, which is encouraging for his continued development. And he'll continue to be one of the best punt returners in the country.

Mike Harris
Senior
5'11" 188
Boundary Corner
What a find Michael Harris was for the Seminoles in 2010. Originally committed to Alabama, he switched to Florida State after Saban realized he wasn't going to graduate and get in to school in January for camp. Florida State was willing to wait. And it was well worth it. Maybe Mark Stoops knew how talented Harris was, having scouted him at Arizona.
Harris was instrumental in Florida State's tremendous defensive turnaround (88th to 41st in defensive efficiency). Florida State often used him in the slot for its nickel packages, and his experience playing in a zone defense was particular relief because the rest of the FSU defense has essentially none under the previous regime.
Harris isn't a blazer, but he is physical and instinctive and doesn't freelance too much. He seems bigger than his 188-pound listing, and is a very solid tackler. It's difficult to pinpoint what he needs to work and improve on, because he is stuck behind Xavier Rhodes. While unlikely to unseat Rhodes, Harris is still likely to be an NFL player, and, in a display of FSU's cornerback talent, could even go in the draft. He'll see more time this year at the boundary slot, according to coach Fisher. It's difficult to tell if that is a tip o' the cap to Harris for all his hard work and team-first attitude, or if Stoops really believes he can help the team there. There's no doubt he can play the position, rather, the question is what happens to Xavier Rhodes when Harris is playing the boundary? Given Rhodes injury troubles, perhaps it is a move to further depth.
Red-shirt Junior
6'3" 202
Boundary Corner
Through his first three years at Florida State, this next sentence would have been best served in a comedy piece. The coaches are high on Avis Commack at corner, and he may be the best of the First Coast Trio. Seriously.
The first-coast trio of Avis Commack, Jermaine Thomas, and Nigel Carr has been a total bust to date. Nigel Carr was charged with multiple felonies and expelled. Jermaine Thomas never grew up and took football seriously, and added two minor arrests of his own. And up until this point, Avis Commack was best known for his long hair.
But how things change. Commack was not good at receiver. He never saw the field. Then while running track, a sport at which he is pretty good, he snapped his femur. Throw on a long rehab, a change in defensive philosophy, an influx of receiver talent that quickly passed up the injured Commack, and Avis was left without a position. The coaches thought he should try cornerback.
It worked. The 6'3" Commack can do things in the new scheme that just weren't done in the old scheme. He has decent speed and very long arms. Jimbo Fisher recently praised his ability to play press coverage. Can he tackle? How much of the scheme does he have down? Those are questions to be answered this Spring. But with Xavier Rhodes a candidate to leave early for the NFL, Greg Reid always a threat to mess up, and Mike Harris graduating, Commack will at worst be asked to be an important reserve in 2012, and at best, a surprising starter.
Nick Waisome
Freshman
5'10" 165
Field Cornerback
Waisome was one of the top corner recruits in the country. He's quick and very good in coverage, but doesn't have track speed. He's very small and won't be asked to play much in important situations this year. Enrolling early should help him a lot with both the scheme and the much needed weight program experience. Haven't heard any complaints about his attitude either, which is good for a freshman just stepping into the mix. Profiles as a two-year starter on the field side in 2013 and 2014, replacing Greg Reid.
Moved To Safety (At Least Temporarily)
Lamarcus Joyner & Terrence Brooks
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Looking forward
to what the DB’s can do. I’m really excited over the depth and talent we have at corner. Hoping that Reid can continue to improve on his skills here and not just be known for returns. Hoping that Rhodes balls out and Harris continues to provide quality depth.
Avis Commack
Should we really buy all the talk about Commack? I for one thought he was high on the list of possible “transferees”.
I’d say so
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Goddammit I love our coaching staff
That’s like walking in your backyard, tripping on a rock, and finding gold.
Dadgum?
(crinkling paper) You break up, call back later!
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Waisome to redshirt ?
Unless there are multiple injuries, correct ?
No chnce
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Not even about that
Defensive backs/receivers in the state are a dime a dozen and there a talented bunch available nearly every recruiting cycle. There’s no real reason to save them for a full year unless they’re injured because we’ll usually have at least a couple coming in every class.
Blowouts
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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definite;y not
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Word on the street is...
That Avis looks REALLY freaking good thus far at CB….like…really good.
Oh, And Greg Reid wins the 2011 Thorpe Award. Book it.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Interesting you mention that (Reid)
I was wondering if we’ll have two on the pre-season watch list. I say yes.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno.
Not sure if casual fans (of FSU, ACC, college FB in general) understand yet how good XR is. Reid is a little more known, and I think he may land on the list before Rhodes does. I think Greg’s football instincts get him more attention in 2011 than Xavier…doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s a better CB (which I don’t think he is/will be).
Then you got numero uno who just seems to be there when we need him.
What a ridiculous problem to have!
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Who votes on the watch lists? I honestly don't know.
Rhodes may not yet be a household name, but he’s already drawn more attention within the conference than Reid for CB play.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
They definitely don’t.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Casual fans don't understand how good he is.
At least that’s what I think Bud was replying to.
I became a huge XR fan about halfway through the season.
Reid has made the big plays since day one - XR still is just a lot of potential
I am sure that will change before he leaves
teams don’t throw on XR like they challenge Reid. XRis a much better player.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I winced when I saw this
There’s a reason Prince Amukamara’s int totals dipped in his senior season (To say the least). Interceptions aren’t nearly the best barometer to guage the effectiveness of a CB. I can practically guarantee Rhodes’ yards per completion metrics were MUCH better than Reid’s last year.
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved watching Rhodes this year, healthy or not
Do you think he could go in the first round next year? I really think he has all the tools to be a shutdown corner at the next level.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
has to stay healthy
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Agreed he has to stay healthy
Im just saying, even when he looked like he wasnt at full speed, he was incredible.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
could happen with people avoiding rhodes
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I have seen no evidence that teams won't thow at him - nor any other current DB
the last guy we had like that was B. McFadden
He played very well last year and for the most part his guys just weren’t open.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Commack: At best a backup and worst a starter?
Not sure how to take that.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 6:29 PM EDT reply actions
I think its a positive thing
Best case, he is a serviceable if not above average backup. Worst case, other guys dont develop and he has to start. Again, I am interpreting what I think Buds opinion is now. Who is to say that best case wont be him starting next year bc he blows up this season.
Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole
I don't want Avis to be a forever backup.
Kid started a position…wasn’t successful…broke his leg…worked hard…changed position…and is obviously kicking a little ass.
I want a kid like that see some action. It may not be in the cards for Avis, but IMO, he’s earned it. He could’ve easily hung it up, but he didn’t.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Yep, and he’ll get his degree
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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I was hoping Mr. Elliott would shed some light
from above.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Where Commack fits is yet to be determined it seems
A lot of folks dismissed the initial reports (Or murmurs) of him looking good at CB. It’s a very intriguing situation for sure.
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Poor job of wording on my part. Not sure what I was trying to do that there.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something (not the first time)
I understand that FSU has very talented CB’s, but isn’t there a worry about the lack of experienced depth? Beside the top 3, everyone else is a question mark…right?
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
Four corners with experience and loads of talent. Don't forget Joyner.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Beat me to it.
Also, when you take the best corner in the state, and he gets an extra semester/summer to work, I’d like to think that it flattens out his learning curve a little.
Not saying that we should expect Waisome to be like Rhodes was when he starts, but it really wouldn’t surprise me.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
It’s great depth.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Is it pretty much a lock Xavier leaves after this year?
Barring injury of course.
by fsunole23 on Mar 24, 2011 6:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't think it's a lock. Still has a lot to learn (only one year at CB)
I’d put it at 50/50.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all about his draft projection
If he has a chance to go in anywhere in the first two rounds he needs to go get paid. He’s not a lock at all though. Quite a few quality CB’s returning this year in CFB (Hosley, Wade, Cliff Harris,Kirkpatrick, etc) though. No Patrick Peterson types though. More like the 2010 crop IMO
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 24, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. I think it is a lock he won't be here in 2013, though.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
How much experience did Cromartie have at the CFB level?
I feel more like I do now, than I did before
gatornation - ungracious in victory, arrogant in defeat
by HaveNoleOption on Mar 25, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
thats irrelevant
Cromartie was a physical freak, a 6’3" corner that moves like he is 5’11". and he got drafted based solely on potential (the actually considered him as a WR if CB didnt work out). it was a strange pick, to say the least, but it worked out ok. besides, Cromartie had played CB for years, Rhodes is new to the position entirely.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Think it could depend on the state of football after a new CBA
And what exactly it will be. If rookies are no longer getting $50 mill before playing a snap after the draft as a first rounder. And are limited to a cap based on round they are drafted. Then it may effect players leaving or staying in school for an extra year. No idea how the CBA works out. But if their is no significant $40 mill different between the first pick and last pick of the first round anymore. Some players may leave early if they know they are a first round somewhere and don;t feel the need to go and fight for #1, or even round 1 depending what the CBA outlines for rookies and if their is a round or draft slotting pay scale in the future or not
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
I dont think it is remotely a lock
he is not Cromartie physically….or mentally
Thank God he's not Cromartie mentally
and physically, as far as measurables go, there really isn’t a big difference other than 2" of height.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember Doc
2" inches of height is an epic deal man
Plus Cro is jet from a speed perspective
Rhodes will leave school with more experience and having been better coached. Really they are two different players IMO both are just very tall for the cornerback position. Cro is better physically but Xavier looks to be more disciplined with good physical tools (Just not elite tools like Cro)
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
thats my assessment as well
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Well played.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally not your allusion
But you made me think of Tiny Elvis.
Does anyone else hope to see Brooks get moved back to CB?
I’d like to see he and Waisome take over when GR5/Rhodes depart, with Keelin Smith and possibly PJ Williams (if he doesn’t end up at safety) behind them.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
Could, yes
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Yes
Big fan of Brooks
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Mar 24, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Back in the day that process was called "reloading"
You might have to say it out loud a few times before it sinks in.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate when you talk like this
The first-coast trio of Avis Commack, Jermaine Thomas, and Nigel Carr have been a total bust to date. …. Jermaine Thomas never grew up and took football seriously, and added two minor arrests of his own.
Thomas has not been a “bust”, much less a “total bust.”
The guy has been a great asset and had great contributions..
God
by Mr. Seminole on Mar 24, 2011 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Yes, he has been a bust. He’s incredibly inconsistent and his moments of awful far outpace his good works.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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What actually was expected of Jermaine then?
He’s been far outpaced by a kid like Montel Harris but what about JT’s production in the context of initial expectations? Granted, JT has been in the doghouse at some point in the last two seasons
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 24, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Bud, when you dislike someone ..... you express it too strongly
You run a great site and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but so are we as readers.
To me a bust means a person hasn’t done anything or if they were highly regarded they fell well short.
JT has been avg to above avg over 3 years so we can’t say that is a bust.
Where does he rank in total rush yards for the first 3 years?
Out of HS I believe he was ranked as a 3 star, so to say he didn’t live up to his billing is a stretch.
Is he great, no. Is he good, no. Is he avg at least, yes. Is he a bust, no.
NO!
Please don’t ask Bud to mealy mouth and sugar coat things like the other 99% of the people in this business do.
by gambelero3 on Mar 24, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I second this statement.
Keep telling it like it is Bud.
by Shooter McFrattin on Mar 25, 2011 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree, and rec'd as well
You want fluff and sugar-coated excuses? There are plenty of other FSU sites around that offer that, and they’ll be really glad for your web traffic. However, they’re all worse sites than this one for that very reason. You can’t rely on their analysis; they sabotage their own coverage by making excuses and lying to cover up weaknesses.
There should be no grading on a curve here-we play football on a national stage at FSU. Once you start playing, nobody cares how many stars you had when we recruited you. You made it to FSU for a reason, now you have to live up to FSU’s expectations. All we really care about is how good you are doing your job. End of story.
“You tried” stickers are for elementary school.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Pike wasn't asking for fluff or excuses. Nobody was.
He and several others were disagreeing with the assessment and further down you’ll see that the writer even tried to back off from that assessment. You want folks with an opinion differing from Mr. Elliott’s to go elsewhere? Yeah, that’ll make for a wonderful site.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You think he’s been better than average? I don’t think he’d start for any ACC team other than duke.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 24, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s see who he could have started for last year
MD- no (Scott)
Clemson- no (ellington)
Wake- no (Adams)
BC- no (harris)
NC State- no (Greene)
Miami- obviously not
UNC- oooh, maybe, except he runs like a girl and Butch wouldn’t tolerate it. Still, with all those suspensions…
VTech- no, clearly
UVA- Perry Jones > Thomas
So that leaves Duke
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 24, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Not saying he’s a bad kid. He just isn’t dedicated. A to-be senior who makes that many mental errors. He doesn’t bust it in the weight room like he should, and he doesn’t play hard.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 24, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
JT
Career totals:
318 carries, 1804 yards, 5.7 ypc, 18 TDs, 35 rec., 311 yards, 2 TDs
More yards than anyone over the last two years.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 24, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The fact that he has more yards than anyone else is circumstantial
Think about it. Chris Thompson was true freshman that suffered injuries and the death of his grandfather. He had less than 30 carries in 2009.
2010 proved that when there are other viable options, JT takes the backseat.
I didn't say anything about the circumstances.
In fact, I didn’t present any opinions of any kind. Just stats. If you guys wish to consider 2100 yards and 20 TDs in 3 years while being the featured back for a total of about half a season, battling injuries of his own AND coming in as a 3* recruit a total bust….be my guest.
And under what circumstances is 5.7 ypc on 318 carries NOT good?
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
When it doesn’t get any better and doesn’t work hard after three years in the program? Spitballing here.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
When what doesn't get any better?
I only asked one question, so you must be talking about 5.7 per carry. I have no idea how to answer that.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
As a player, he really hasn’t improved much, if at all.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
He improved considerably from Frosh to Soph
New coach comes in and he regresses. Not every “great” coach has a great effect on every player. Not blaming Gran or anybody. Just saying he was doing quite well in year 2. What changed?
And just because he’s now the third or fourth best option doesn’t negate his production. The numbers he’s put up are pretty freakin good. ESPECIALLY considering he was unheralded coming in.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not nationally, but
I remember there being a pretty long drawn out battle between FSU and LSU for JT. everyone raised their eyebrows and the expectations started to increase from that point on.
He was pretty good early in his career, and then we recruited some good talent behind him. Maybe he realized at some point he would never be “the guy” and decided not to try as hard.
by FSUActuary on Mar 25, 2011 8:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How much do running backs improve though?
I think he’s a good player. Not a great player but a good one. Your comparisons to other ACC teams is valid but where does he fit in versus other FSU backs in the past five years?
I don’t think running backs really improve, year after year after year, either. That’s why they are physically able to play right out of high school, compared to linemen.
IF your beef is centered around his failure to comprehend that he’s not supposed to be driving, well, I like that argument. That’s just assinine and I would be concerned about his ability to pick up the blitz if he couldn’t figure that out.
Of course, he also scored 3 TDs in the first half against Miami last year and if you do that, against them, that wins you “bonus points” with me! LOL.
Maybe his talent shouldn’t improve a ton, but the mental parts of his game haven’t come along, and that’s largely work ethic. As is his lack of strength development.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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I'll 5.7 per pop any day of the week...
Bud I think you’re a little off base with this one. A complete bust would be Brandon Paul, Ed Imeokparia, Dionte Allen, or AJ Alexander.
Bust or not
He has made contributions to the Noles and has been there when needed most of the time. Asking much more from him on the field in an offense that doesn’t rely on one back is being unrealistic. Now, off the field is a different story. It’s not like FSU churns out dominant running backs anyhow. When was the last 1,000 yard rusher, W. Dunn?
by NoleySmokes on Mar 25, 2011 7:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t define it as “1,000 rusher.” I strongly disagree that he is there when FSU needs him.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I'm not gonna argue.
I’m just sayin, he has only had around 300 carries in his three year career, but managed to score 18 rushing Tds and average 5 or more yards a carry. Also, his first year, he was running behind an undersized, young Oline and being coached by Dexter Carter.
No beef, Bud. Keep up the good work, I’m on your side, bro!
by NoleySmokes on Mar 25, 2011 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps "underachieving" would be better than "bust"?
Also, I have a question – under the old regime, how were recruits targeted? Did individual coaches decide which players to recruit, or did the top dogs (BB, CTC, MA) decide?
I ask because we often treat our current staff as recruiting gods (and they certainly have put together two apparently stellar classes), but we still have circumstances where guys don’t pan out or live up to their high expectations. Rivals lists Dawsey as JT/Carr/Avis’s recruiter; Fisher and Dawsey as Fortson’s; we’ve scoffed when opponents’ fans said, “We didn’t want Reid (Fisher/Carter), Bradham (Fisher/CTC), McDaniel (Allen/Haggins), etc. anyway” – but yet we now discuss some of their limitations/inconsistencies. Trickett recruited Aubrey Phillips, Fisher/Dawsey Willie Downs, Fisher recruited J. Harley, etc.
Were those coaches on our current staff directed to recruit these guys, or do we anticipate a certain numbers of misses each year (if so, what’s the acceptable rate)?
NOTE: Not all the players listed are “busts,” but none has lived up to the hype, right (the inconsistent Reid has probably been closest)?
by Invictus13 on Mar 25, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i anticipate about as many busts as booms
not a bad thing at all, just the nature of recruiting. potential is hard to gauge when paired with assumed work ethic. but a good staff will get more good than bad. the outliers will still be there, the difference will be whether you can get the booms at all, and how the rest of the middle will work out. ideally, you will minimize the busts and maximize the number of good players. and by good, i mean non-star, but productive role-players that still have a late round draft shot.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Good point about getting the booms
We’ve seen enough busts in the last decade, so a few more booms would be awesome. Heck, rumor has it that if we’d had just one more boom a few years ago… well, you know the story. ;)
He was a 3 mother truckin star recruit
what were your expectations? Were you expecting the next A. Peterson? If that’s the case…..absolutely underachieved, busted, bit the dust, can’t get his ass out of town fast enough.
Also, if you were expecting the next A. Peterson you should consider taking tranquilizers regularly.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Er... not meant to reply to me?
I was taking your side, LOL. (“underachieving” being less harsh than “bust” – I was aiming for a middle ground)
ha!
I was probably replying to the whole room. But, I would like to establish what the expectations were.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair question, I think
Perhaps Bud’s looking at this through “process-oriented glasses” – after all, he’s had some decent numbers, as you pointed out (and he WAS a three star HS player), but Bud has mentioned that JT hasn’t worked to improve himself greatly.
So… Results = solid. Process = fail?
Perhaps also associated with his negative plays
I don’t recall JT’s stats offhand, but Gran and the coaches are big about eliminating negative plays. Perhaps JT’s had an inordinate amount of them?
My personal opinion
is that he regressed this year. I could speculate on lots of different reasons, but being mathematically minded I have to look at the most significant variables that changed….coaches. Maybe he just doesn’t get what Gran is teaching, maybe he doesn’t like him…I don’t know.
I don’t remember hearing of any work ethic or attitude problems until this year. Maybe I’m missing something.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
as for coaching
he isnt a 1 cut back, and he shows an unwillingness to hit the hole when necessary. thats why he doesnt look good running in this system: he is too willing to bounce it to get extra yards instead of ducking his pads and hitting the hole for however many yards are available there. trusting the line is key, and he isnt the style of runner to do it. square peg, round hole.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Maybe that's it
All I know is he got worse this year under Gran. He was doing very well after Trickett took over. And I’m making no statements of any kind about Gran.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Trickett had to teach the backs where the hole was
they were guessing instead of expecting it, and he had to put the RBs on the same page as the OL. it worked, because they were going where they should have been instead of guessing wrong and running into the OL.
the difference is the other backs hit the hole religiously, even if it didnt look like it was there, and a coach’s best friend is a guy that does exactly what you tell him to do. that way when the play doesnt work, you know what went wrong and you can fix it.
to put it in math terms, every piece of the offense should be a constant, and the way the defense reacts is a variable. if you change one piece of your end to a variable, it makes for multiple, unpredictable outcomes, so theres no way to correct the formula to make it add up. its hard enough to solve an equation when asked to solve for variables with as-yet unknown constants on the other side of the equation. its even harder with a totally different variable on your side.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Trickett made it simple and Gran made it complicated?
I’ll by that. One’s a Marine….the other isn’t.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
by=buy
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
its not that Gran made it complicated
he didnt change anything in terms of how, just helped coach the technique to do the same thing. Jermaine didnt fit the offense, and the other players embraced it and improved while he was stuck in the same place as last year. regardless of the RB coach, this was going to happen because its a function of zone blocking (Trickett) and a 1 cut RB (Fisher’s offense).
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
IMO
Bust = badly failed to live up to expectations. He was a three star. He has performed at three star level. Sometimes better sometimes worse. That is not a bust. Rouse was a bust. McPherson was a bust. Jared Jones who broke into a girl’s room to attack her refrigerator instead of starting at QB was a bust. This kid has commited multiple misdemeanor criminal dumbass. But he is not a bust.
to add an extra wrinkle...
Myron Rolle was an underachiever, but not a bust. Jermaine Thomas would be a step above that. not because he performed better (not comparing them to each other) but because Myron was 1/2 nationally and Jermaine was a 3 star (4 star on ESPN, but still). Jermaine played like a 3 star overall, and Myron played like a 4 star; so the former hit his expectation, and the latter fell short of it while still playing well, so he isnt a bust.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
except that you cant judge a player's effectiveness by process
future expectations? absolutely. but whether a player played well must be judged by production, not preparation and work ethic.
coaches get judged by how they prepare their team through the year. players get judged by what they do with the talent and coaching they have. plenty of backups do the right things but dont produce because they arent good enough, and a fair amount of great players can get away with not doing the right things off the field. predicting the future must include process, but describing past production is only about on the field production in yards and TDs.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
i see what you mean
he performed about as well as i expected, maybe better. he didnt get much better, but that can likely be attributed to his recruit rating: he showed flashes of good, but he hit his ceiling due to either not working hard or not being tough enough. all in all, better than expected early on, getting beat out later; sounds like an average player overall to me.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED FROM HIM
sounds like an average player overall to me
There’s better talent now, so move him down the chart. Let’s not pretend the guy never did anything good on Saturdays, though.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
precisely
There’s better talent now, so move him down the chart
he was the best we had at the time, and he played like an above average player at the time. now that he has been passed due to lack of improvement, he gets to sit and think about whether he could have worked harder or played tougher. its not for me to judge, i dont know what he did or didnt do. but to say he was a bust is just flat out wrong.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
IMO overall I'm happy with Jermaine's net production
esp. given his eval (rating) coming out of HS. What I’m not happy with—and what drives me nuts about—Jermaine is his inconsistency… one play he’ll do what he’s supposed to (i.e., find the hole) and the next play he’ll show indecisiveness and take a TFL. TFLs are very rare with any of our other backs. TFLs are drive killers.
Championship!
Classifying him as 3* doesn't really mean anything for personal expectations
Xavier Rhodes was a 3*, Rodney Hudson, Christian Ponder and a lot of other players that are coming in or currently on the roster that many of us have extremely high expectations for are considered 3* recruits by one service or another.
Jermaine Thomas didn’t play like a 3* his freshman year. I don’t know if that is the standard that Bud is holding him to or not, but I agree with Bud in the sense that JT’s growth and progression has been minimal since his first season. He’s entering his senior year and is still very inconsistent. He runs hard when he wants to and unfortunately that isn’t every week. I wouldn’t go as far as to call him a bust and lump him in with the rest of the group from First Coast. Hell I don’t even feel comfortable calling Avis Commack a bust because he’s never had a chance to play.
But to act as if Jermaine Thomas is anything more than a talented player that is inconsistent and levels out at about average is silly in my honest opinion.
you should have read the rest of the comments under that one
you would have seen this comment from the doc
EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED FROM HIM
“sounds like an average player overall to me”
There’s better talent now, so move him down the chart. Let’s not pretend the guy never did anything good on Saturdays, though.
and to list the exceptions as the rule is not helpful to the argument. read the “stars matter” article. basically, a 3 star is expected to be an average role player. some will do much better (Rhodes, Hudson, Ponder) and some wont cut it (Ed I, same class, among many others). but the rest end up somewhere in the middle, contributing somewhat where they fit in until somebody else passes them up. Jermaine Thomas falls under the last category.
and yes, it would be silly to argue that Jermaine is anything more than a talented, inconsistent player would be silly…if anyone actually made that argument.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
My point is that I don't believe Bud's expectations of Thomas
were ever based on his ranking as a High School player. Which is why I listed examples of people whose expectations were obviously altered significantly from what they were as high school prospects. After year 1 of Jermaine Thomas splitting carries with Antone Smith, there were major expectations of him in 2009 and moving forward.
So, clearly the defined expectations could be completely different. One person looks at JT out of high school and says “oh he’s a 3*, he’ll probably be average”. Another person looks at his freshman year, which matters more than his high school ranking and says “this kid has serious talent and if he develops well could have a great career for FSU”. Bud seems to be the latter and not the former. In that he believes had JT applied himself properly he would be a much greater asset to FSU than he is.
As I said, I personally don’t consider JT a bust, but I can see why Bud considers him as such. He has played below the level he did as a freshman, he has regressed. More importantly he has very clearly NOT progressed at all in his three years at FSU. He could have been a much better player than he is now, he had the potential to be a very special college back.
I read the rest of the comments, I’m not sure why you assumed I didn’t. My response was based on the idea of Thomas being FSU’s leading rusher over a two year span being any evidence of him not being a disappointment. He’s a rising Senior with three years of experience and is still inconsistent in effort and focus in practice and performance on gamedays.
I agree with the Doc on this one
To be honest I’ve always liked the way JT has run. And I think he’s been good for us, not great obviously, but good. Most definitely lived up to his 3 star billing and surpassed it in my eyes. Not about to knock the kid and label him as a bust.
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
He runs like a sissy and hasn’t worked hard. May have regressed each year since his first year.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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I think I was being kind with sissy.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He ran a lot more plays than a few
His problem is inconsistency. When he wants to be, is an extremely tough runner. Other times, he’s incredibly underwhelming and doesn’t seem to have his head in the game at all.
He runs faster harder and with more power than...
you could even dream of doing yourself bud. “sissy” what are we 6 years old?!
I’m not on scholarship to play running back.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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im with bud here
thats a terrible argument. i disagree with him on Thomas as to how he has contributed based on expectations, but you cant compare a typical person to a scholarship athlete on any level. they are all more talented than you, thats why they got a scholarship and you didnt. you have to compare them to each other, i.e. whether Thomas ran hard compared to his peers.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I didn't say he was a bust
But your statement of “more yards than anyone over the last two years” doesn’t take into account the fact that the only other back that contributed in both 2009 and 2010 only had 30 > carries in 2009.
So, under the circumstances JT having more yards than anyone over the last two years isn’t that impressive.
Jermaine Thomas is not a bust; he was servicable. Bust is WAY too harsh
He’s just in a situation now where he is not the only option at RB. And like Dr. Ken said, " he was a three star. What was really expected of him?" A Heisman? A Doak Walker? No. He was expected to come in, get us wins, and make some contribution to the team WHICH HE DID. He had great games against Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech his freshman season. He had hardly any coaching as a sophomore (thank you Dexter Carter), and fell in the depth chart when Chris Thompson (who had a much higher ceiling) reached his potential.
To say he is a “bust” is extreme. When I think bust, I think: Xavier Lee, Budd Thacker, Robert Morgan, Korey Mangum, Roger Williams, Fabian Walker, Aaron Jones, Fred Rouse, Matt Duham, Joe Surrat, AJ Alexander, Nigel Carr, Dionte Allen, and Wyatt Sexton. Little to no contribution at best.
But if JT qualifies as a bust, then following that same logic that means Bert Reed, Kyler Hall, Decody Fagg, Rod Owens, PK Sam, Andre Fluellen, Dustin Hopkins, and Myron Rolle are also busts. Elite players: no. Serviceable: yes.
That’s basic LSAT Logic.
Did I call him a bust, or did I call the trio a bust?
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
From the article, as I do not know to do the blow out option
“The first-coast trio of Avis Commack, Jermaine Thomas, and Nigel Carr has been a total bust to date”.
So yes, you called Jermaine Thomas as he forms the totality of the first coast trio. Had it Avis Commack and Nigel Carr were busts, while Jermaine Thomas is no longer capable enough to the be starter, I would agree since Chris Thompson or Lonnie Pryor have more potentional. But in your defense, I really don’t remember you ever writing anything that harsh about a player before. Just seeing that really….

I’ll say Thomas has been very disappointing, and as a unit they are a total bust to date. Maybe I’ll change it to say “they have been a complete disaster, with no projected starters entering the fourth year in the program.”
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m done with it. Cornerback article.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
disaster actually makes it worse
change complete disaster to disappointment and youve got yourself a winner
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
both
The first-coast trio of Avis Commack, Jermaine Thomas, and Nigel Carr has been a total bust to date
Yes, he has been a bust.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
In Fisher's press conference (one with EJ)
he talked about doing some unconventional things, particularly getting four of our more skilled corners on the field more and using our problematic safeties less and going with more nickel and dime.
If a nickel package is 4-2(no Mike)-5 with Joyner at free (traditional free), a SS, Harris in the slot, X on the boundary and Reid at field, what does a dime formation look like?
Also, if we fix the safety issue, is it possible we’ll see more corner blitzes from the boundary (or even the field) corners?
Agree with all of this, and yes.
Not sure what the dime would look like.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 24, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think K Smith RS and I think he gets some Slot responsibilities
as a guess.
Solider: "Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for?"
Captain Zapp Brannigan: "Don't ask me. You're the ones who are going to be dying."
Hypothetically speaking of course
If i were to say I’d like to see Harris starting opposite Rhodes instead of Reid, would that be considered blasphemous?…
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
Blasphemous? no, there have been times I felt that should happen, but...
there must be something keeping Stoops from making that change. It can’t really be a recruiting promise made to Reid, so he must see something that gives G5 the edge.
They play different positions, remember? Not blasphemous, just it can’t happen
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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How difficult to switch positions?
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Mar 25, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on the skillset. His is a boundary skillset.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I don't think he would have too hard of a time switching
The number of picks he got with the relatively small number of snaps he was on the field for shows he has pretty good awareness. The one question I have about him is if he has the quickness to play field. I hate how Reid gets abused by big receivers and on swing passes/screen plays. I’d really like to see Reid play some nickel. I think this would give him more opportunities to freelance. Plus I think his quickness and change of direction would make him really tough to block on blitzes. Didn’t he do an excellent job blitzing Jacory Harris back in 2009? I think I remember him getting a sack and a QB pressure that led to a big INT. Would it be possible to see Rhodes move to Field? Because of his smaller size, Harris would probably be more likely to make the move.
hhwlh2rhehrewhrlew
Had a huge response typed out and it blanked out. Damn. Basically, I agreed with your quickness concern and said something about how we play zone nickel, meaning harris has to tackle in the slot which is often off tackle.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Can't or not likely?
I just was thinking similarly to “FSUPhi” down below that I hate seeing Reid manhandled by the bigger, more physical wideouts and I couldn’t imagine Harris would have that hard a time switching either. I do wonder, like “WaimeaNole” said above, what Stoops sees that’s making him leave G5 as the boundary – maybe quickness or speed?. I appreciate all of the discussion on my question nevertheless.
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
G5 is not the boundary. He is the field, the wide side. he covers more ground, and typically has safety help
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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Greg defeinitely improved his tackling as the year went on, however.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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gotcha
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
I love Harris
In a manly way of course. He just seems to be a fantastic player with great football smarts. And he can deliver the hammer when he hits. Remember when he crushed Miami’s RB (Berry?) and he coughed up the ball so Moody could run it back to the one? He is definitely one of my favorite current Noles. I hope he gets enough playing time to get some NFL attention. And he’s a backup? DAMN!!!
Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!
ya no homo but I love Harris too
I mean to come in and make such an immediate impact like he did was great to see
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
Menage a trois
Harris gets more out of his physical ablities than anyone we’ve had in a while. When I see him in uniform, his arms look dreadfully thin and yet, he isn’t cut either…..
But he is football smart! And that is a “talent.” A “skill.” And players don’t get anywhere near enough credit for it, because it’s tough to measure. Even with a wonderlic!
You started with the phrase "Menage a trois"
and completed your message with the term, “wonderlic”. I am not greatly concerned, merely making an observation.
haha touche sir
"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF
Hmm, thanks much!
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Bud, good preview of the CBs
very excited about this group and the ones coming in August. Looking forward to the safety preview so we can all discuss our various levels of disappointment with Reed or Reliford. :)
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Bud or anyone
have a projection of what our CB depth chart will look like for 2012 and 2013 with all the talent being brought in?
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions
If you tell me who on the current roster will still be here, I’ll do one. Deal?
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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all cromatrie
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Mar 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I will make an honest attempt to do so for 2012 as 2013 is just simply too hard to predict
2012
Greg Reid (Sr.)
Lamarcus Joyner (Jr.)
Keelin Smith (Soph)
Nick Waisome (Soph)
Avis Commack (RS Sr.)
Terrence Brooks (Jr.)
PJ Williams (FR)
I know some of these guys are either currently safeties or at the very least CB/S hybrids (Hell PJ hasn’t even completed his Jr year in HS). I’m sorta operating under the general premise that by 2012 Los and Hunter will be the starters by 2012 (Big assumption, but the seems to be the consensus best case scenario). Who knows, maybe Brooks will blow up at S at stay there. I believe/hope Joyner moves back to corner
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. That is very hard. I really can’t do this until we see how brooks and joyner play spring
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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The key of course is what
X does. Under Bowden, our players enjoyed themselves so much that we had a lot of great players stay all the way. Deion, both Butlers, Buckley, Dunn and Brooks all stayed.
If X leaves early, we may end up with three great field corners in Waisome, Joyner (if he moves back) and Reid, but no real boundary guy.
I think Keelin would fit that bill if he develops as anticipated
and stays healthy. Avis is the wildcard for 2012
by westcoastnolefan on Mar 25, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumb question.
What’s the skill set difference between FC and BC? I know the difference between the positions (boundary usually doesn’t get safety help), just not sure how to evaluate a player as better suited for one or the other…aside from trusting his cover skills.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
boundary corner is usually better in run support
for the same reason; he has the short side of the field and doesn’t get as much safety help.
The Navin R. Johnson of Tomahawk Nation.
so all the attributes you'd look for as far as physicality; tackling etc.
would be at a premium on the boundary side, since that guy is left by himself most of the time.
The Navin R. Johnson of Tomahawk Nation.
boundary corner needs to have the physicality to keep contain
if he gets sealed to the inside, the defense is probably giving up a home run.
Watch this video, starting @ 1:22
The Navin R. Johnson of Tomahawk Nation.
rhodes easily sheds his blocker
maintains outside leverage (contain), forcing runner back to middle, where he is athletic and physical enough to plant him.
textbook boundary run support, no doubt worthy of a tomahawk.
The Navin R. Johnson of Tomahawk Nation.
That's kinda what I thought.
Which is why I was a little confused that guys like LJ and Harris wouldn’t be considered viable at the boundary.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
FC must cover more area, Boundary is typically bigger, better tackler, doesn’t have as much help. Boundary really needs to be able to play the sweep to the short side without help.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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Got it.
would you say we’re now recruiting kids that could typically play either side?
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I think that is accurate.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
GRAMMAR POLICE
Hate being this guy I can’t believe I’m the only one who caught this, especially this late, but the last sentence for Xavier Rhodes says “he had surgery to recover from a nagging groin surgery”
Just thought I’d bring that up. Love the site!

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