Previewing Florida State (10) vs VCU (11)
After a great 1st weekend in the NCAA Tournament that saw FSU win a tough game vs Texas A&M before dismantling 2-seed Notre Dame, the Noles now play a Sweet-16 matchup versus an improbable opponent in Virginia Commonwealth. If you haven’t been keeping up, check out our First Look at VCU, as well as a breakdown of their starters.
This is just the fourth trip to the Sweet-16 in program history, and FSU won two of the previous three.
The NCAA Tournament is all about matchups, and so far FSU’s slate has been favorable. We were theoretically the underdog in round 1 being a ten seed, but were matched against an over-seeded Texas A&M squad. The Aggies style and personnel made them a tough challenge for the Seminoles, but anytime you play a higher seed and Vegas sees the game as a coin flip then something is working in your favor. In the 2nd round we drew Notre Dame, a team that quite frankly should have beat us, but still, the matchup was a good one as ND depends so heavily on the three and running their offense in rhythm which are two things FSU’s stingy defense can take away. After Notre Dame wilted under the pressure, we advanced to take on 11th seed VCU.
At this point in the tourney, both teams should be happy they’re facing double-digit seeds. But who wins the matchup battle? Come inside and find out.
The first thing that jumps out on film from VCU games is their propensity to work inside-out. All season I’ve been kicking things as
But how are we going to stop the three? For starters, let’s look at a team that’s not even playing anymore – Old Dominion. ODU was the last team to defeat VCU, so I watched their game and noticed something odd. Against a team that lives on the three-ball, ODU spent the entire game in a defense that is exploited by the three-ball. Of course ODU plays a lot of zone defense, but what jumped out was the type of zone, shown here.
As you can see ODU (in white) is in a 3-2 zone, rather than the much more conventional 2-3. 
So what’s odd about that? If you recall the FSU/Texas A&M game, the Aggies jumped out to an 8 point lead in the 2nd half before Derwin Kitchen hit a huge 3-ball to cut it to 5. Shortly thereafter the under-16 t.v. timeout came and when FSU emerged from the huddle they went to a zone defense for the first time all game. And FSU stayed in the zone for the rest of the game, marking are longest stretch in a zone defense since the Baylor game. And here’s a picture of that zone.
Note the similarities with the ODU zone? The really strange thing is that FSU, to my knowledge, hadn’t played a 3-2 this season. That we busted it out in a key moment of a Tournament game is testament to Coach Hamilton’s ability to teach defense. That it just happens to be the same unorthodox zone that last stymied VCU probably isn’t foresight on our staff’s part, but you can be sure they’ve picked up on it by now.
How much zone will we see out of FSU? Probably not a lot, but as explained in the earlier features this week, VCU’s roster presents a challenge as their bigs can step out and hit the three at a 40% clip. Mixing in a zone will protect guys like Xavier Gibson and Jon Kreft who have difficulty defending 21 feet from the basket.
Of course VCU’s past three opponents – USC,
On the other side of the ball VCU produces unique challenges as well. As I covered earlier, they haven’t played a team in the tourney that’s anywhere near FSU’s size (which is a tremendous advantage for us). Instead they’ve drawn similarly sized teams or teams which are slightly bigger. Still, VCU has a defensive philosophy that they use against all teams, and could be effective against FSU assuming we don’t shoot anywhere near our Notre Dame level. When the ball goes inside VCU collapses so that their smaller perimeter players and mid-sized bigs can cut off the inside game. The flip side of that, as illustrated here, is the amount of room it leaves on the three point line.
The 2nd challenge of course is the VCU press. The Rams run a zone press which won’t exert the type of pressure were accustomed to in games against UF or the Oliver Purnell Clemson teams. But the tradeoff is that zone presses don’t surrender as many transition buckets, as they flow more smoothly into half court defense. This first image is
Next is Drexel, who appears to have the press beat after the inbounds. 
But as the zones collapse VCU flows into a secondary press which stops the ballhandler shortly after he’s crossed midcourt.
Finally, VCU traps the ballhandler and gets a jumpball.
As you are aware, FSU has the tendency to turn the ball over at a remarkable rate (312th in the country). If we can consistently gets shots off, we’ll win this game. If VCU creates transition turnovers that lead to points, then we could be in trouble. And I think that's what this game comes down to. It's not necessarily turnovers, but more the type of turnovers. Dead ball turnovers in the form of charges and out-of-bounds wouldn't be a big deal, but if VCU can consistently turn us over in transition then FSU players will likely be packing their bags.
The game tips at 9:57 EST on TBS. We’re a 4-point favorite in Vegas, and Pomeroy has FSU -3.
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Where's that 3 point shots vs. Total Efficiency graph from?
It would be interesting to know who that outlier at .38×100 was.
Long week.....
This has been the longest week since, well, the week before the tourney.
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Mar 24, 2011 11:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I can't wait!
Gonna be awesome. Thanks for the write up. I’m kinda shocked at how much the media has been slurping VCU this week. I guess it’s just Cinderella syndrome.
The Funk Phenomenon.
if Purdue had won that game, they would be all over Richmond
we are in the ACC, so they dont get the Cinderella effect as much as they do from Richmond, an A-10 team. if Vandy or Louisville were in Richmond’s spot and Purdue was playing FSU, it would have been Marquette because of the Big East hype, and they would be held up as proof of the depth of the Big East. after that, yeah, we would get that much love. sad but true.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Great analysis. Agree on the TO importance.
For all that we’ve turned it over like crazy, we haven’t gone to one of our flake-out performances through the first 2 games of the Tourney (believe we’re averaging like 12 or 13 TOs a game…still not incredibly good, but it beats the 18-20 that I’ve seen us throw out in other games).
Looks like Dulkys, Miller, and Snaer could do some damage if they’re still hot, especially if James can dump a couple quick ones in down low to get them crashing down hard…
Coach Ham and Co had 4 days
to work on breaking the press. I would hope FSU does pretty well against it.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
Did we sign a point guard in the last 4 days?
Still, I’m optimistic like you. Even if there are a few turnovers from the press, I expect them not to panic. That was what I noticed about the ND game; ND made that run largely because the press knocked us off our rhythm on both O and D, but we recovered when Kitchen hit the free throws and didn’t panic.
Everyone should read Malcom Gladwell's book, Blink.
If you had, you would know all about “thin-slicing,” in other words, “the ability to find patterns in events based only on thin slices, or narrow windows, of experience.”
I know all about this concept, and because I do, I can tell you very simply that in any typical college basketball season, the 3rd place team from the ACC should have no problem with the 4th place team from the CAA. Thus, Noles win tonight, and get that preview of the FSU-Kansas regional final up, Norcal.
Peace out.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
I havent not read either of those. Per your recommendation, however, I am going to
read Outliers soon.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
Care to elaborate on the thin-slicing for those of us who have not read the book?
Just curious about your optimism. I have a lot riding on the game.
a brief observation is all you should need to determine the most likely outcome
of an event.
I think there was an article at FoxSports a few years back on how to use that theory to pick your NCAAT bracket winners. That is, don’t spend a lot of time on it, chose the winner based off your first impression, and move on to the next game.
So, in the case, no need to overanalyze or worry about match-ups, strengths and weakness, etc.. This is the 3rd place ACC team vs. the 4th place CAA team. Noles should win handily.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
Couldn't the same oversimplification mean VCU>Auburn>FSU?
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It could. However, at this point I typically invoke an alternate theory, which
I developed in my own personal relationships with women, and that is to ignore anything that causes me to question my own preconcieved notions about how great I am. I just haven’t coined a term for it yet.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?
there is already a term for that
#SWAG
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Mar 25, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
REC
#mindblown
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
by freshcollegeboy on Mar 25, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I read it, and it was entertaining, if a little too reliant on generalizations from anecdotes.
But it had no point other than not to underestimate the accuracy of your instincts / first impressions—when you have them. There wasn’t really anything I took from the book as to how I might change or improve them, however, and that was what I was waiting for. Also no resolution / expansion at the end of the book, which I found odd.
He does touch on how to change/improve them.
But it generally means changing what you hear/see.
Also thought the point of the book wasn’t to point out how accurate your impressions were, but to point out that everyone has them, to varying degrees and in different arenas, and to be aware how they affect your actions.
Why does everyone keeping talking about VCU's fast tempo?
Unless I’m mistaken they don’t play at that quick a pace do they? Jay Williams on ESPN just argued that VCU’s speed into transition offense is the reason they’re going to win…
In Jimbo we trust.
its because they score a lot in transition and from 3
that can add points very quickly. its not so much the statistical pace as it is the quickness with which they can build a lead. if the other team turns it over to their press or makes dumb decisions in the halfcourt, VCU will light up the scoreboard with a quickness and bury them in a big hole.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Our D and length is going to give them fits...
Now if only we can find a way to score without chucking up threes then we win this going away.
Actually what I think our D does most effectively. . .
Is absolutely wear down even a good offensive team by the second half. I think that is in large part why we are so often down or tied at the half but pull out the wins; the other team is simply beaten into exhaustion by that point, especially when they do not use a deep bench. So I could see VCU running with us for most of the game, and then falling off.
It's a very Arkansas 40 minutes of Hell philosophy
We play a lot of players and other teams wear out.
actually, just going off points per half
going back to our loss at unc (feb 6) we have not had a game where we held the opposing offense to significantly less in the 2nd half; I think the biggest drop was in the Texas A&M game where they went from 26 in the 1st to 24 in the 2nd.
Consider the GT game, as an example, we were up 30-18 at the half. But we then gave up 45 in the 2nd and only scored 42 (granted we retained the large lead for most of the game and could afford more points). Or our last game against ND, we had a steady 34 and 37, but led ND’s offense recover from a meager 23 to 34.
what happens more often is we play a tight game in the 1st
and then hold our opponents’ steady in the 2nd but open up our own shooting to gain the lead. It takes Dulkys 6 shots to realize he can’t sink a 3 and gives it off to the big men to drive.
The VCU zone press
Based on the description and pictures, it looks like the press is designed to create turnovers either A) at the inbound pass or 2) just over half court. Either of those create easy point opportunities on the turnovers.
We should be able to attack the basket if we break the press by passing and end up with a 2-on-1 situation. If we dribble to half court (like Drexler above), they will catch up and trap, causing us to have 30 turnovers on the way to losing by 15+ points.
What can’t happen is (like Drexler) we need all 5 guys to get the ball in after a made basket. That’ll make for a long night.
Yeah their zone press is pretty soft, and they generate a good deal of their turnovers in the half court game.
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Combining AYCD with FSU Basketball is going to be dangerous tonight
I’ll be at Bulls in Tallahassee for AYCD and I’m planning to play the FSU Basketball Drinking Game. It’s much more simplistic than the Mike Martin Drinking Game… just down your drink every time FSU turns the ball over. I figure that, if we total 15-20 TOs, we’re going to lose. If that happens, I don’t want to remember the game’s ending.
I've trained my liver all season
Should just end up in the hospital. Hopefully their TVs aren’t turned to Sportscenter.
norcal, you did an excellent job this year covering Noles BBall. Thank you for your effort. Not only am I guaranteeing a Nole win, but we are going to string up the Rams and hang them out to dry.

>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
FSU: "Where The Elite Become Champions"
Not much of an outdoorsman?
That’s obviously a trot line for Sheep’s Head.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. What an awful, terrible attempt at humor
I expect that from Dkidd, but not you
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman
by CornNole on Mar 25, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Man, tough crowd.
Who’s Dkidd?
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Command Chief....
Chief Master Sergeant Juan C. Lewis is the Command Chief Master Sergeant to the Commander, 37th Training Wing, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.
You had him listed as just a Chief. Great article though! GO NOLES!!
Is it football season yet?
Stand down, soldier.
Tyranny is tyranny. Let it come from where it may.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Mar 25, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Aye aye Captian!
Is it football season yet?
by NOLEcasterWX on Mar 25, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the AP's caption.
They’re trying to get me shot.
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I'm not all that worried about the VCU zone collapse D
Assuming, that is, that FSU can manage to get the ball onto their side of the court.
We have so much of a size advantage over these guys that I have to imagine we’d get the ball into the paint then chuck it back out to an open shooter. So what if we brick? VCU is leaps and bounds below every other team in the field in Pomeroy’s adjusted D (109th) and ranks 301st in rebounds. (FSU is 13th.) I think that the game will be won or lost both on the boards and in the transition. We can shoot a little worse than we did against ND, but I doubt we will. We have to control the boards, control the transition, and therefore control the tempo.
Quite frankly, I don’t care if we miss a few shots. Just make sure the big guys move in after the shot to recover the brick, and we’ll be fine. FSU by 10. Mid 70s point range. Maybe upper 60s. But deffinately by 10.
"This year I am focused on scoring. I want to score, along with getting good field position for the offense. I am going to try and score a little bit this year. I kinda miss the endzone a little bit." -G5
I’ve seen VCU enough of VCU throughout the years, and Shaka Smart is a completely different coach from Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant. I believe that coaching staff has scouted so much on the Noles, that they might make the game interesting.
I still got the Noles winning, but the Noles cannot allow their flaws to show up. If they can prevent turnovers, and be aggressive in the post (both sides of the ball), look for the easy shots, the Noles will move be on to the next one.

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