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Florida State Spring Scrimmage Recap

FSU held its first Spring scrimmage and the results were mixed.  Fisher seemed mostly pleased with the performance.  Here are some of the official release notes, as well as my comments and thoughts relayed to me from those able to observe.  As expected with all the offensive injuries, the defense dominated the game.

"I was pleased. I really was," FSU head coach Jimbo Fisher said. "I thought both sides had their moments in the scrimmage. There were a couple of balls on the ground, a couple of the young quarterbacks made a mistake or two. But the defense seemed to play well. The offense I was very please with especially with guys being hodge-podge; (Jacob) Fahrenkrug played center the whole day and did a really nice job. I thought both sides had their moments in the scrimmage. They competed very well. I'm not displeased, I`m not saying I'm ecstatic but there were some good things out there."

Rising junior quarterback EJ Manuel played well in his first spring scrimmage. Fisher plans to release more details including some statistical information on Tuesday but Manuel did throw three touchdown passes - two to Bert Reed and one to fullback Lonnie Pryor.

"It was good," Manuel said about his first scrimmage. "Personally, I felt really good out there. Like I said before, my shoulder doesn't hurt anymore, so I think that makes a world of difference for us as an offense. I think everybody played great today; both sides of the ball did a good job. The defense made some plays on us, and we made some plays on them, so I think it was pretty even today."

Fisher and his staff used this first scrimmage to concentrate more on situational scenarios. The first, second and third teams each had opportunities from the 30-yard line to sustain drives, but the second half of Monday's scrimmage was spent working on specific third-down, red-zone, goal line, coming-off-the-goal line and two-minute-drill situations.

MORE INSIDE

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HEAD COACH Jimbo Fisher On the guys outside (receivers) making some plays:

"Yea, there were some catches. We didn't have as many dropped balls and guys made some catches. I though EJ (Manuel) made good decisions and looked like he belonged in charge of everything - I was very pleased with that. The guys outside seemed to make a couple of good plays at times. And on defense they batted a couple of balls away; they made a couple of good plays on that side, too. Some good things."

On quarterback EJ Manuel managing things:

"I mean just control of the game. He had total control of what was going on. He looked poised, reacting to things, managing people, getting on people, leading people, encouraging people, making throws, making runs. Just like you want the guy - you feel very comfortable with him in charge of your unit. If it was a bad play he pushed it off and went to the next play. If it was a good play he pushed it off and went to the next play. I really just liked his poise and presence on the field today."

On who stood out:

"I'll have to look at the film. There were a couple of good plays. Nigel Terrell made a couple of good plays at linebacker. All those guys did for the most part I don't know if there was anybody in particular. I happened to be standing behind the offense where I could tell EJ but I don't know if anybody I could really tell on offense. Defense - a couple of guys. Like I said Nigel Terrell made two or three nice hits and I think got an interception. But we will wait and look at the film."

I also heard that Christian Jones and Jared Haggins had nice days.  Freshman running back Devonta Freeman was also impressive.  Tight End Ja'Baris Little continues to have a shockingly-nice Spring.

On who worked out at guard:

"Stanley. Jacob Stanley. Knows what to do; an old, experienced guy. Battled in there and did a nice job. We had (Henry) Orelus, Stanley, Fahrenkrug, (Bryan) Stork and (Garrett) Faircloth on the offensive line."

That lineup shows me that they would rather have Fahrenkrug as the third center than Sterling Lovelady, at least at this point.

On whether either of the back-up quarterbacks look more comfortable than the other:

"On the first drive, I thought Clint (Trickett) looked very good and I saw Will (Secord) make a play or two. They both made a couple of mistakes. I'll wait and judge up there. I wait until I look at the film until I make any rash statements. But they knew what was going on; I was pleased with their understanding of what was going on, where to go with the ball. There wasn't a lot of bonehead things with the ball."

It was an incredibly rough day for the backup quarterbacks as the four offensive line injuries have necessitated the second-team olinemen move up to the first team, and thus the backup quarterbacks are being protected by a mix of true freshmen and walk ons.

On did you go ones vs. ones:

"Oh yea. All the time. Ones on every drill. It was all ones on ones, twos on twos."

On how did the running backs look:

"Ty (Jones) did a couple of things. Four (Devonta Freeman) made a couple of runs. Put the ball on the ground one time which was disappointing - he had a real nice run on it, too. 38 (Jermaine Thomas) made a couple of runs, (Daniel) Monroe got in there; Lonnie (Pryor) had a ball or two. A solid day. I thought it was a solid day. 12 (Jarred Haggins) made a couple of plays."

On whether he got a good idea on today's scrimmage:

"We moved the field, did two drives - two 12 play series and moved the field. We did third downs, we did coming out, we did red zone, we did goal line, did two minute. We covered a lot of situations. We got a lot of things in."

QUARTERBACK EJ MANUEL On his touchdown throws:

"The last one was during a two minute drill at the end of a game. I just threw a bomb down there and Bert went up and got it. Three receivers go down to a certain side of the end zone and just give them a chance to catch the ball, and Bert went up and caught it. The second one was a little play action fake to Lonnie who was out in the flat, wide open and took it in for a touchdown. The first one was during the first drive of the scrimmage; we drove all the way down the field, and just hit Bert on a little turn out route. I think we executed it well, and we were consistent as an offense today. We still have some things to work on obviously, and you always you do because you're never perfect, but I think we executed pretty well today."

On even with the offense line banged up:

"Well I told those guys (offensive line) we would make plays for them. If they give us at least a second and a half, we will make the plays for them. Its take some pressure off some of those guys, and I think it's our responsibility as skill plays to do that. Make plays and move the ball. Obviously they are a huge help to that, and I know a lot of guys are hurt right now, so they are a doing a good job and they best they can."

On Jacob Fahrenkrug at center:

"He did really well. I think Jake is going to be a great center. No matter what position he plays, he is going to be a good person and a good addition to our offensive line. He is a very hard work, a model figure in what Coach Trickett likes in his offensive lineman, I think. He is going to do great for us."

On how the defense looked:

"I think they looked great. I don't feel like we are going to face a better defense in our conference. I think those guys have everything you would want in a defense. Toughness, speed, and they are where they are supposed to be. I think it's up to us to make the correct plays, because sometimes things are simply not open, but we still have to make the play, and I think that is going to help us when we start playing teams in our conference, Oklahoma, and teams like that. You cannot be average against those teams, you have to be great, not average, but you have to be really good to compete against a team like that and beat them, so I think that is helping us a lot."

CORNERBACK Greg Reid On the defense's performance:

"I think we did pretty well. I think it was kind of a day we took to learn and make sure we have everything down pat, so it was kind of a laid back day. We mainly worked on techniques and that kind of stuff, so in my eyes it was pretty good."

On how different EJ is now then he was before he had command of the offense:

"First of all, you don't really know if you're getting a sack, or if he is running the ball, it's kind of hard to judge him a little bit. I feel like his eyes kind of throw you off a little bit. He is a great quarterback and is developing into Jimbo's offense."

On the young receiver group of freshmen and how they have developed:

"We had a lot of playmakers among our receivers last year, so it was kind of hard for them to just jump into the offense and make plays. To play defense as a freshman I think is pretty easy, but for them to play offense and learn all the plays its kind of tough just not on them, but on everybody. It affects the whole offense, but once they start understanding the plays, how many yards to run on different routes, it's tough, but I feel like they are pretty good and sooner or later they will show it."

 

No, Greg, the receivers were not playmakers last year.  At least not for most of it.

LINEBACKER Telvin Smith On the defense's overall performance:

"I think we did pretty well. Overall we only gave up one long run, and other than that I think it was pretty good. We had a few missed tackles, not too many, but on the first day overall considering it was the first scrimmage, I think the defense did really well."

On playing a new position (Middle linebacker, just for the Spring):

"It was pretty good. I really didn't have too many big guys come down and hit me, so I was just running around making plays. That's what I love to do. I had a few tackles; I almost caught a pick, picked up a fumble and returned it. Did some pretty good things overall I feel like."

FULLBACK Lonnie Pryor On the scrimmage:

"It was pretty good. Like coach said, we had our ups and downs, we had a couple of good plays and a few bad ones, but when you have your first scrimmage things like that happen. It was okay, it was our first one, and we still have another one to go."

On how much the team looks forward to these scrimmages:

"We look forward to them a lot because you practice all week and at the end of the week you have to scrimmage, so the coaches are not out on the field and you have to do everything yourself. It's just another way for you to test yourself and let you know you did it by yourself with your team."

On gaining confidence and having success even without any starting offensive linemen from last year really playing:

"Yeah that gives us some confidence. We know that if we don't have some of our starters out there, that some of the second or third string guys can come and do just as good a job as the first team guy. Yes we have a lot of guys out right now, but some of these backups can play just as well as the first string can."

 

 

INJURIES

Moses McCray (leg) joins a long list of guys who are going to miss all of Spring ball, including RB Chris Thompson, WR Willie Haulstead, LT Andrew Datko, RT Zebrie Sanders, DT Jacobbi McDaniel, LB Jeff Luc, LB Holmes Onqukaife, CB Xavier Rhodes, S Nick Moody, and P Shawn Powell.

Bryan Stork returned to action after a minor groin injury.  Kenny Shaw tweeted that he sustained a minor concussion.  

 

Florida State will take Tuesday off before returning to practice on Wednesday. The `Noles will practice Wednesday and Friday this week before holding their second scrimmage Saturday in Doak Campbell Stadium at 10 a.m.. That scrimmage is closed. All practices are closed to the public. Fans can begin counting down to the SunTrust Spring Football Weekend Presented By Kia Autosport which will be capped off with the Annual Garnet and Gold Spring football game at 4 p.m. at Doak Campbell Stadium. The game will be carried on ESPN3.com and replayed on ESPNU.

Season tickets are available now by visiting Seminoles.com or by calling the Florida State Ticket Office at 1-888-FSU-NOLE. Single game tickets will go on sale to the general public June 1; however a single game sale is not anticipated for either the Oklahoma and Miami home games.

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Wonder which back made the long run?

Glad to hear Haggins continuing to do well after being a virtual afterthought in the 2010 recruiting class

by westcoastnolefan on Apr 4, 2011 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Thomas broke one, as did Freeman

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

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by Bud Elliott on Apr 4, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting to hear that Fisher

called by players by their numbers, not names, a lot. A former coach got criticized for that late in his career – though he had always done it, even in his first years as FSU head coach.

Four (Devonta Freeman) made a couple of runs. Put the ball on the ground one time which was disappointing – he had a real nice run on it, too. 38 (Jermaine Thomas) made a couple of runs,… 12 (Jarred Haggins) made a couple of plays."

by Wild@Heart Nole on Apr 4, 2011 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Confused about the Haggins comment

did run some from the backfield, or did CJF just mix his name in with the backs?

If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?

by JaviLouis on Apr 4, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I took it to mean he had a designed run (reverse?) or two, but not sure.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 4, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but Bobby knew

Which one’s momma could cook. He also knew which ones were “good boys”

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

very true

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby constantly mentioned

the home town and parents name of the players as he did a running commentary during the Bobby Bowden show in the 80’s and 90’s. He got old, he fell behind physically and in the new techniques. I get it. Can we get over this, except to show the differences in the old regimes program and the new changes? Sheesh.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is that not what I just did?

It was brought up and I pointed out that it wasn’t exactly the same thing…

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Geez

Sensitive much?

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Time to take your fiber pills, grandpa!

…You know how cranky you get when you forget.

http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
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by DRusso97 on Apr 13, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

For me, it's more in the delivery.

Fisher seems to know who he’s talking about. Bowden, at least in his latter years, didn’t seem to know exactly who he was referring to outside of the number. Jmo.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 4, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

From day one, Bowden called his players by their number

When he got older, then folks started saying he couldn’t remember their names….come on, Bobby’s last years weren’t great, but lets stop making up crap.

Gripper

Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.

by Gripper on Apr 5, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I saw him live introducing players...he didn't know their names, he needed help. not scrubs, but captains.

he also struggled remembering what just happened in games, ie clemson presser.

what he did was great, but he was very out of touch towards the end of his time, and fairly clueless.

Do not interpret this as an attack on Bobby, simply an accurate observation.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

had bobby called his player by the number and won 9/10 games a season

no one would have complained.
same goes for jeffy and all the other unqualified/unfit coaches.

he did win. it was two years ago. let it go.

Jimbo is the Tomas Crown of NCAAFB

by stevegrizzle on Apr 5, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

What did I make up?

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jimbo does everything for a reason and purpose

Never felt, even in Coach Bowden’s better years that was the reason behind his calling players by their numbers only. Bowden was just folksy. Fisher does it for motivational reasons, doesn’t want to say your name until you’re consistent.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

But to read some comments here, you'd think Bobby started to "forget" names when he got older.

I was just pointing out that for whatever reason Bobby used numbers, he did it his entire career.

Gripper

Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.

by Gripper on Apr 5, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, it's something Bowden's done for years

That’s why it never bothered me. Had he started doing it in the closing years then it would be a concern, not just football related but for his life outside of the game. He’s like a lot of other old school southern guys I know, they call you son all the time and you wonder if they even know your name but then they ask you about all kinds of stuff you told them years ago.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

who is the "we" you are talking about

and why do you have to defend him?

Jimbo is the Tomas Crown of NCAAFB

by stevegrizzle on Apr 5, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

You have to defend him to who?

The Fans that put the program and school ahead of an individual?

I am a fan of the school first…

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Golden Flake

Not Lays potato chips but Golden Flake. That’s the ad Gene and Bobby used to do.

by nole34 on Apr 5, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That wasn't my point though.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, it was. Nevermind.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The last several years can never be forgiven.

Strong arming the admin to hiring his son and threatening to leave if he wasn’t made OC was the beginning of the end (for me). From that point on a lot of negetivity came from his mouth. His family and die hard supporters continued to put Bowden above the university and players. Can’t forgive that.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Forgive versus forget

I can certainly “forgive” it. I hope I won’t “forget” it.

I had a lot worse things happen to me over the past few years than FSU losing some football games, such that I won’t “forgive” some things.

But unless I lose my mind (which gets closer every day, I think), I don’t intend to forget it.

Coach Bowden earned some good will over the years. It was past time for change, duh….but it comes across as “bitter” when we say we won’t “forgive” doesn’t it?

by Sobering on Apr 5, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

forgive, but never forget: always a good motto

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's quite simple. I don't love him, I don't hate him.

I fully appreciate and am thankful for what he did in his first 25 years. Throroughly incredible accomplishments. He did so much for the Seminoles. It incredible period of time for FSU football.

but

I don’t respect him for what he did in his last 9. Thoroughly disgraceful how he treated the university, the town, the fans.

Essentially… I am pissed off/saddened by about 25% of his tenure at FSU, and really happy with the other 75%.

As for Bowden being so charming…he went to interview for the Alabama job and just charmed his way into not getting it. Daggumit is cute, but not effective.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know how.

If it weren’t for him 2001-2009 would have been considered the best years of the program if he never took over.
Again, hold him responsible for what he did, he did drag down the program, but he didn’t leave it in “near shambles”. If the program was THAT bad we wouldn’t have gone 10-4 this year.
Also, can we bash Mickey Andrews for being dis-interested in our defense the last few years and not even using a playbook in those final years? Can we blame our administration for acting like Bowden’s parents that gave him everything he wanted?

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

TK is an accomplice to the lost decade

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also,

how can you not even respect a guy who’s done (in your own eyes) 3/4 right? It doesn’t make sense. He’s a human being, did you expect him to never slip up, make a bad decision? If so, that shows how good he was from 1976-2000.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I expected slips ups...but I not a decade of selfishness.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s fair I guess. I’m looking at this like Brett Favre.. you take the good with the bad and in the end you have a HoF’r.
I’d say i lost alot of respect for Bowden for his selfishness, which I did, but maybe I don’t have as sour of a taste in my mouth as some others, which is understandable. But when all’s said and done Bobby Bowden’s the reason the bar is set so high for this program, and he’s the reason we’reconsidered a National Powerhouse and not that one school that used to be an all girls school and used to have a football team.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mickey’s circumstances were entirely different.

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Apr 5, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you dont know the answer to that question

you should stop dogging Mickey. but FYI, his only son was found dead from an apparent suidice outside Mickey’s house in 2007, 2 weeks before the start of the football season. and he stayed for 2 more years, to help the team and Bobby, despite wanting to retire.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't Bobby also deal with a couple of tragic deaths.

I knew the answer, well, I knew his son had died tragically. But, again, why’d he show up if he didn’t want to be there?

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby asked him in '08

He saved us from Chuck in ’09. Indications that it was Jimbo who asked him then.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No..

it sounds like several people in the “Lost Decade” forgot how to use this word.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Knowing his heart wasn't in it.

And knowing he wouldn’t give it his all. And how was I dogging Mickey for saying he was dis-interested when you basically just said the same thing.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, can we bash Mickey Andrews for being dis-interested in our defense the last few years and not even using a playbook in those final years?

sounds like dogging him to me. “disinterested in our defense” is not the same thing as distracted, one is careless and the other is unavoidable.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Distracted is not the same as “his heart wasn’t in it” and “he didn’t want to be there”.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

it kinda is though

if his heart wasnt in it, it means he wanted to do well but his mind was distracted thinking about family. you can still want to do something and not have your heart in it, it just amounts to a lesser product than you wanted.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then he made a bad desicion. He could have told Bobby no and went home and spent the rest of his life with his family, and I wouldn’t have had a problem with it.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

again, he *wanted to do it*

he stuck it out through 2007 because it happened 2 weeks before the season started. he stayed for 2008 because the defense was still doing well, so there was no reason to think he would do anything to hurt them by staying (and he was right). going into the 2009 season is when he realized it was time to hang it up, so he basically gave the AD a year’s notice to find a replacement, not knowing the product would suffer so badly. i see nothing wrong with any of those decisions, but your hindsight is 20/20.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

I understand that. Let’s say you’re son tragically dies, God forbid, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. And your boss asks you to do some big project for the company, you think it over and you say yes. But you don’t do it, or you do a God awful job at it because you’re distracted, you’re hearts not in it, you’re disinterested (still don’t see how that’s dogging), and when the deadline comes you’ve got nothing, what’s the boss gonna say? It’s ok buddy? Hell no, good intentions are not enough.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you are blaming him for making a bad decision

he didnt know it was a bad one when he made it. you blame intent when there was none. yes, it ended badly, but that doesnt mean he knew it would and didnt care.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m blaming him making a desicion that wound up being a very bad one and making a commitment that he couldn’t back up knowing he had a choice to make the commitment. You say he didn’t mean to hurt the program which I agree 100%, but he did and he’s not getting a pass in my book, especially if we’re going to sit here and pick Bowden apart.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

To add to this

I don’t think Bowden had bad intentions anyway but still made bad desicions that hurt our program and Bobby doesn’t get a pass for that either.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i fully blame Bobby for refusing to see his issues

it was disgraceful to fire him like they did, but he should have known what each year would bring when the last was better than the next. when your team (only the offensive side) is in a steady decline, you have to do something about it and fire your son. Mickey had a consistently good to great defense until 2009, so there was no precedent for that terrible performance (relative to the standard he set). cant blame a guy for not seeing that coming, nobody else did either.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with everything, except I still don’t give Mickey a pass. Bowden was in a more powerful position and he made more bad desicions then Mickey (who only made one) and blindly stood by those desicions even though they were clear disasters.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

basically

i dont blame him for doing a bad job, and i dont blame him for not knowing the decision would end like it did. but it doesnt make the defense any better, and if he were not in that situation he would likely have been on the hot seat for the collapse that ensued.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

because he was still a great DC, and what else do you do?

if something like that happens, you can either quit your job and crawl in a hole, or try to stick to your routine and work through it so it doesnt consume you. it was also because Bobby asked him to stay, and because he loved his players (they all attest to it) and he didnt want to up and quit. so he tried to fight through it as long as he could, but it was pretty clear going into that last season that he was only staying one more year, which would give the athletic dept enough time to hire a new DC. but you could just tell his heart wasnt fully in it, no matter how much he tried. its not that he didnt want to do well, just that thinking about his family was weighing really heavily on him.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Fisher asked him to stay?

If nothing else, Mickey gets our undieing appreciation and gratitude for staying to save us from “Chuck Amato, DC”.

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was kinda the idea, yes

but Bobby was definitely behind it too. remember, he was still trying to convince Mickey to stay toward the end of his last season. it was likely a combination of his own thinking that things were about to turn around (and he wanted his friend to go out on a high note with him) and not knowing anybody else for the job. he got complacent and didnt know the current crop of coaches anymore, so it was Mickey (who only really had 1 bad year, his last) or the great unknown.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you mean, "old people don't like change"? ;)

I can say that, as I inch closer to that point….

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby wanted him there in 07 and 08, but in 09 he wanted Amato and Jimbo wanted Mickey

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

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by Bud Elliott on Apr 5, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Jimbo "want Mickey"

or was Jimbo choosing the lesser of the 2 evils. Amato vs the Mickey who wanted out?

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

the latter

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Latter, from what I understand.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 12, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

So if he were to quit you would have said he crawled in a hole and let it consume him? If he quit the second after he found out about his son and I never saw him again I wouldn’t be mad at him. But he made a decision to be the defensive coordinator at FSU, no one forced him, and then he acted like he didn’t want to be there, you can’t do that. I love Mickey just as much as the next guy, but I’m not giving him a free pass for making a bad desicion that also hurt FSU Football.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really think it would have been better had he left?

The ‘08 defense wasn’t great, but wasn’t awful. Were the ’09 defense better, we may still have Bowden at the helm. No, this worked out for the best.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so.

Our defense is still recovering from a lack of depth, size, talent, and proper coaching from the last few years.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think those things would've been remedied

With Chuck as DC for ’08 and ’09 and Bowden potentially still here? No way.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was just for ‘09. And no I don’t, but if Bowden was still here in a position where he could effect what happens on Saturday’s then I’d be pissed, but he’s not, and since Mickey was brought back to save us from Amato then I don’t think that helped the chances of Bowden leaving or getting fired at all.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

listen to DK, you are just wrong on this one

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

So I’m supposed to be greatful that Mickey came back just to make sure Chuck Amato didn’t become our DC while we finished with the 88th ranked D in the country? That’s crazy.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because of what it could've led to

If, somehow, Chuck produced a better unit than Mickey in that year and we go 8-4 or 9-3, Jimbo Fisher probably isn’t our head coach last year. Set the program back another 3-5 years. Is that better?

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby would have been gone the next year or else we would have had to pay Jimbo all that money. So Jimbo would be our HC this year instead of last. And you’re assuming that Chuck’s unit could have been better but at the same time I have people telling me Mickey saved us from Chuck. Which is it?

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think Bowden was above raising that money? You are misguided, if so

I think it’s possible Chuck could have done something with that unit to make it better than 88th, but not entirely likely. I fear the consequences if he had. Who knows what sort of hirings/staff turmoil that leads to. Much better to take the hit that was ’09 to make the desperately needed changes.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well since people are saying Mickey saved us from Chuck I’ll assume Chuck couldn’t have, and we’d still have made drastic changes.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, i think he was ready to retire after the 2010 season

they agreed to that year, and he seemed to be ready to go at that point. it was the publicly shoving him out a year early that brought on the reaction from him and his wife. if i agreed to retire in less than 5 years and the other side tells me they wont even honor the 1 last year we agreed to, i would be pretty pissed off too. not saying whether it was right or not to do so (it was definitely handled badly), just understand why he reacted the way he did. i honesltly believe he was happy with Jimbo and he was ready to hand over the program, and firing him a year early came across like a slap in the face. it would be like firing somebody with 3 days left on their 2 weeks notice of retiring.

my problem with the potential Chuck hire was how badly it would hurt us in the future, if not immediately. if everybody knows the future head coach doesnt like the new DC, it hurts the defensive stability (new playcalling, new coaching techniques) and its rife for negative recruiting (who knows who your coach will be in 2 years?)

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats fair

everyone is entitled to their own opinions. neither of us really knows what he was thinking, so its all speculation anyway.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahh, I see we're going to take the ostrict approach now

His public comments, and those of his wife, indicated that he thought he should stay as long as he wanted, and that the university should pay Jimbo the buyout money (once said jokingly, then twice more seriously).

But I guess we don’t know what he was thinking.

by PBD on Apr 5, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

please share, in context

keeping in mind that staying “as long as he wanted” meant staying as long as he agreed to stay, which was an extra year. he wanted another year, and thats why he agreed to it years before. but please, by all means, find me a serious quote that says he wanted to stay more than 1 more year, because im sure i can find some that say exactly 1 year.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry man

You’ll have to do your own research. I tired of this type of conversation long ago.

Nothing I bring to any further discussion will matter at all to you. Your mind is made up, and you are convinced that Bobby was a saint instead of a person. That’s cool. Have a great life.

by PBD on Apr 6, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow

you went from an argument to a personal attack, and then misrepresented what i said. well done, way to not address the issue at all.

i never said Bobby was a saint, or anything close to it. if you bothered to read anything else i wrote, you would have seen that. and if you actually had any evidence to support your claim (instead just saying i have my head in the sand) you should have presented it. i, on the other hand, have taken the liberty of providing my own evidence to counter your lack thereof. but dont read his quotes or anything…

but by all means, pretend to take the high road.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you watch this as it was happening?

Or just get hit by the Spin Train after the fact?

Every comment Bobby had that was published after a few days of his “resignation” talks about him wanting “one more year”. Leading up to the discussion in which they told him they would not renew his contract, his comments were not nearly so definitive, nor were the comments of his immediate family.

Try filtering your “evidence” by date.

by PBD on Apr 6, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

do you have anything?

or do you expect me to do your research for you?

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 7, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

And what happens to our

2010 recruiting class if that had happened?

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

The program would have been set back much more than one year if the “one more year” campaign had been successful. And the 2011 class would not have been #1, either.

by Invictus13 on Apr 5, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was jsut about to post this.

and then decided to read down…..GOOD POST.

by Jturner01 on Apr 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely different.

When your only son swallows a shotgun blast, then it’s more than just a suicide, it’s a message. Mickey grappled w/ that but out of love and loyalty to Bobby and FSU he stuck around but w/ less responsibility for the defense. Bobby tried ushering in Amato as the new DC the following year but Fisher convinced Mickey to stay.

No one would have thought less of the man had he decided to retire, we’re not talking about some young pup who could still recover and find something else to do that would allow him to stay home. Andrew’s was older and that has to factor in, the fear of leaving his life long career behind and maybe leaving his wife behind if he slowed down. His wife was a huge factor in him staying on to help Jimbo, since there was no love lost b/w Andrews and Amaot.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

The whole “project-at-work-scenario-after-a-son’s-suicide” analogy up top is just downright comical.

A football season at a major university isn’t a “project”. It’s not like Mickey was going to just bounce back and move on after the season. The entire situation was incredibly complex and sensitive, with some potentially serious consequences. Not being entirely sympathetic with either decision in this situation, in my opinion, is completely classless.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it weren’t for him 2001-2009 would have been considered the best years of the program if he never took over.

Complete speculation on your part. Silly comment.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

that last part isnt accurate

from a Mark Schlabach article:

In the 1986 season — Bowden’s 11th season at FSU — the Seminoles finished 7-4-1 and were invited to play in the All-American Bowl. As soon as FSU arrived in Bowden’s hometown of Birmingham, Alabama coach Ray Perkins resigned to become coach of the NFL’s Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Alabama fans knew whom they wanted as their next coach — Bowden. He met with Alabama officials but was told that university president Joab Thomas wanted him to go through a full-scale interview. Bowden left the meeting and removed himself from consideration for the job.

When Crimson Tide coach Bill Curry resigned three years later, Alabama officials called and offered Bowden the job — without an interview — but he respectfully declined.

“I thought I was supposed to go back there, you know it?” Bowden told ESPN.com in 2007. “You know how you feel like you’re just kind of being led someplace? I’m thinking, ‘Boy, it’s funny how my career is. I’m going to end up back where I always wanted to be.’ And I just thought it was meant to be. But it wasn’t.”

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bowden never viewed Tallahassee as the place he wanted to be. It was always Alabama.

He went in their and thought they would just hand him the job on his charm…they didn’t give it to him.

If you seriously are going to use that article as your basis Bless your heart. understand what really happened Mark S. was writing an article while we are pushing out Bowden so of course he is going to insert some fluff showing bowden never fully considered the job.

Bobby Bowden arrived at the interview expecting a meeting with the Alabama president and AD, (expecting the job to just be handed to him), but found a committee that had been appointed by the president to interview prospective candidates. After the interview Bowden thought that maybe he was not going to get the Alabama job.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was the same story the entire time, so your assertion of fluff is wrong

and he didnt expect to get the job on charm: most people at Bama wanted him to get the job. add to that the fact that he had been wildly successful in his career, particularly at that time, and there was no reason to think he wouldnt get it. when he left, it was clear the decision makers were not in touch with college football and the common sentiment among Bama fans and boosters, and he was rightfully unhappy about how the interview process went.

and nowhere in that article (or the book Schlabach wrote years before the firing – yeah, i read that one too, so im not spitballing here) does it say anything other than that. he never makes it seem like “i never wanted it anyway”. here is what actually happened: he said he wanted the job, he was unhappy with how the process played out (it was clear that the committee was not as interested in hiring him as the people who hired them), and he withdrew his name from consideration after that. the next time they came calling, he had already made the decision that FSU is where he was going to stay.

think about it from your own perspective: you have a great job, and a better job has opened up. the board of directors really like what you have done at your current job, and they want to hire you. but for some reason, the committee they hired to get through the process doesnt know or doesnt care about what the BOD wants, and they treat you (a great, preferred candidate) like some guy who put in a resume like everyone else. i would be pissed off too.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember Mark wrote a book with Bobby

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 5, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

You need to read Choose Something Like A Star by Frost.

Life doesn’t have to be lived in such emotional extremes, dude. Bowden’s lack of success wasn’t because he turned evil, it’s because he made bad decisions. The administration made some bad decisions, too, which is what led to Bowden staying too long and with too much power.

That said, the administration did get rid of him. It was a few years too late, but it’s easy to say that in hindsight. Bowden was good for FSU overall. It was good that the administration replaced him with Fischer. Try not to get so “pissed off” about things that happened 3 years ago. Live in the now.

by SDnole on Apr 5, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

good advice. but there's a rift in the Nole Nation- not problematic, but there.

On one side, those who loved Bobby too much to see his faults at the time and think he’s not getting his due now, and on the other side those frustrated by the lack of insight by the first group which they feel resulted in harm to FSU. That rift was years in the making, and it will take years (or perhaps the passing of a generation) for it to fully heal.

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Winning to the left and winning to the right

(as Charlie Sheen put it) in 2011 and 2012 will quiet a lot of those statements. At that point everyone will realize that it was for the better and time will heal a lot of those views.

"I saw coverage to the left, coverage to the right, and coverage up the middle and I said to myself, This is gunna be fun!" Peter Warrick on Punt Return

by kmp9494 on Apr 5, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Apr 5, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think it is rapidly closing.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 5, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Coach Bowden as much as anyone here, but I honestly don't see how it isn't completely closed by now.

Those that cannot see that this program is clearly and undoubtedly 100% off are either in complete denial or are themselves struggling with some sort of diminished mental capacity.

It’s crystal.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

As above

It’s the people who refused to acknowledge what was going on. Bobby said some things and did some things that clearly showed his intentions and yet some people stand by the “we don’t knw what he was thinking / going to do” mantra.

When the phrase “there’s a sucker born every minute” was coined, these are the people that were being referenced.

by PBD on Apr 5, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well there are still people

who think Bobby is end-all to FSU football. Not dissing Bowden, but these same people refused to accept that he made bad decisions that set the program back, was blind to his own faults, and had a general arrogance about him. I remember I was at the Chick-Fil-A Bowl and I saw a friend of mine with his mom, and his mom was obviously bitter about what happened with the Bowden force-out. She said how she wasn’t impressed with the work that Jimbo did. Both me and her son gave her the are you flipping serious look.

by Matt Champion on Apr 5, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are forgetting those like me

who did and still love Bobby for what he did and who now see clearly his faults and perhaps venality (sp?) in the last eight years, throught the good work of TN.

Those such as myself are aroused only by posts such as the one that started this whole thing. That was the one that responded to a very good observation that Jimbo was referring to his players by their number. The later poster took that as an oppertunity to take a gratuitous shot at Bobby, based not on his failure as a coach, but as an old man.

That busted my liver spots wide open and I believer some others’ as well.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, I've got old man strength and I'd be right there with ya,

but I thought the shot was based not so much on age as lack of ability to remember… something. What were we talking about?

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bobby is/was Something Like a star, but,

were we “stayed” by Bowden’s star for so long – too long – only to burned by coaching that became “staid”.

I feel more like I do now, than I did before

gatornation - ungracious in victory, arrogant in defeat

by HaveNoleOption on Apr 5, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you know what the poem was about.

It’s about not overreacting. It’s about focusing too much on an emotional reaction to a person or thing and losing sight of the relative significance of that person or thing in the overall context.

In other words, FSU’s success was in large part due to Bobby Bowden, but not solely his doing. A lot of other stuff factored in. Let’s praise him, but not so much that we lose sight of those other factors. Similarly, FSU’s failures in the last 10 years were in large part due to Bowden. Let’s blame him, but not so much that we lose sight of the other contributing factors. In combination, let’s consider his whole career when forming our opinion, not just our recent or historic prejudices.

by SDnole on Apr 7, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did i say he turned evil...someone living in extremes here probably not me.

Pissed off I said saddened also…Like i have said I am not ungrateful, simply upset with how he conducted himself in his final decade. Living in the past…hardly. I don’t believe in sunk costs.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's a part of the long-term reputation burnishing that happens with any coach.

It helps that we’re winning again. That Lost Decade appears to be over and we can start to forgive the bad final years when the program was really suffering from his neglect and bad decisions. Those decisions aren’t guiding our fate anymore.
We can instead focus on the incredible run he had, his overall record, long-term legacy, and felling good about him again.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Apr 5, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just stop it already, This argument is so old

"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF

by FS4Nole on Apr 5, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

did not mean to single you out Dogrel

"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF

by FS4Nole on Apr 5, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

'Sok.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Apr 5, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be very interested to watch the RBs in the spring game

to see how well these kids play, esp. Freeman and JT. Freeman because I think this kid could have a 1993 Warrick dunn type year as a freshman, and JT because I’d like to see if he can overcome the 2 arrests and be a leader. These guys ( all the RBs) could really make EJ’s job alot easier come this fall.

by CurtOFD78 on Apr 4, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Hopefully

2nd part of that statement"but he put the ball on the ground". Need to remedy that asap.

by Ocalanole on Apr 5, 2011 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gran will work that out of him

Our backs only had one lost fumble last year and that’s due to Gran’s coaching and technique he hammers into their heads. Freeman still needs the high school coached out of him.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure he needs to...

Kid stayed on his own to work on it. He is going to be a BEAST.

by Jturner01 on Apr 5, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

All high school kids need work

But like you said, some need less than others, and those that do work will see the field and contribute. He has a drive that is infectious and something we’re stock piling at several positions.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not saying that Gran won't help....

Just saying the kid has the additiude to want to be great on his own. That is something that you can not teach and he took the initiative to stay and work on it on his own….. I really like this kid and believe him when he said he is going to win a heisman, sounds crazy, but determination goes a long way.

by Jturner01 on Apr 5, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

 I want nothing more than than for Freeman to be successful.

by Ocalanole on Apr 5, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just a note on the stat you used

Fumbles lost is dangerous to use because fumble recovery has proven to be random. However, teaching proper fundamentals to prevent fumbles is not random.

by evenflow58 on Apr 5, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coaches still use drills for fumble recovery

Scramble drills or fire alarm drills to ingrain what to do w/ the ball is on the turf. Some guys just stand there, don’t get their hands dirty and the team/players willing to get their nose on the ground and fight, it gives you a better chance.

Similar to tip ball drills, it’s completely random how the ball bounces, where it goes, but if you practice and prepare (like we both said) then you might be better prepared for when it happens.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Last night

I watched the highlights of last year’s UF game – fumbles, random bounces and we seemed to get all of them. Must be clean living.

by bdahern on Apr 5, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm agree that teams prepare for them but there's never been any indication that recovering fumbles is a repeatable skill

See this under the heading “Recovery of a fumble, despite being the product of hard work, is almost entirely random”.

by evenflow58 on Apr 5, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I argued against this 'til I was blue in the fingertips

I will go to my grave believing that, quicker guys with better reactions give you a better chance to recover the ball, just as some basketball teams seem to come up with more loose balls.

I’ll leave it at that.

by Sobering on Apr 5, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

This isn't statistically measurable....

….but how does that explain a team like Butler, who seemed to get every 50/50 ball that was available? I think it’s b/c they prepped for it daily since a younger team might have to focus more on technique and the scheme, a veteran team can spend more time doing extra drills.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I think quickness is the key, I also think

I think it’s something that can be worked on and improved on, just like everything else.

Also, just because other teams had players that were probably quicker than Butler’s, I"m not convinced they had quicker reactions, knowing what they were seeing, etc.

I rarely think of such things as “luck.” There may be individual times when it’s “luck.” I also think the defense has an advantage because defenses are taught to swarm to the ball, so in theory, defenses should have more people around the ball (in football anyway). Maybe that’s countered by the ball carrier knowing he dropped it?

I just can’t accept though, the premise that recovering a fumble is “luck.”

I think luck is more along the lines of, the rules change in 1991, narrowing the goal posts, such that a certain field goal would have been good the year before….

by Sobering on Apr 5, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

No real argument here

I think it’s fairly easy to state, that if one team practiced fumble recovery and tip drills every day versus a team who didn’t, the one where it’s ingrained into their muscle memory and through a qucker reaction time, would win more of the loss ball battles. Preparation and oppurtunity.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Round ball, different story.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

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by Bud Elliott on Apr 5, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

he just needs to carry it to class for a week.

Commentators think you give the guy the ball right after he fumbles it. Really you should make him block for the fullback a few times and than ask if its easier to hold the ball.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rodney Smith???

 Rodney Smith should be dominating…………….. I cant get Greg Carr out of my mind, I cant take another Greg Carr . Also alot of people diss Bert Reed but the kid is dependable.

by PRIME25 on Apr 4, 2011 9:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't say he's dependable.

But when he’s actually catching the ball he’s a good guy to have on our side.

by FTSNole on Apr 4, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

based on last season's performance

no, he was not dependable. but none of the receivers were dependable, so its kind of a moot point. they all need to step up and improve, which means stop dropping passes and run the correct routes.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

before last season, Rodney had exactly 1 reception (fyi, the same number as Haulstead). Last season his mistakes were foreseeable; this year, he’ll have no excuse for poor play.

Championship!

by TLHWG on Apr 5, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bert has been in the program for 3 years.

Why does it make it a “moot point” since the other guys had far less time in the program?

Seems to me that Bert should be the MOST dependable, really.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't it going to be his 5th year?

Thought he redshirted with Easterling.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
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Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
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by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may have

Perhaps I was being generous

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

when most of the receivers are dependable, it tends to affect them all

everybody dropped passes they normally dont (including the usually solid Easterling, from the same class), and the problems the young guys had put undue pressure on the veterans.

ive said it before, and ill say it again: if we had a reliable X, Bert would have been much better last year. but since our most reliable guy coming into the year (including the spring game, where he got the vast majority of targets and receptions) was a 5’11" 170 slot receiver, it was bound to create matchup problems, and it did. he was forced into positions that dont suit his skillset, and it resulted in some bad plays and broken concentration, which led to more drops. look at his history, he had better hands as a FR and a SO (especially as a SO), so theres no reason to believe he started dropping balls on his own.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Never said he was

just that he was capable of providing some help at the WR corps last year. He best suits the role of slot wr as a check down so he can use his speed in space. If he can learn to be dependable he will be good for us this year, if not, I’m sure there is a young buck waiting to take his job.

by fsugrizz on Apr 5, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

My uncle

Just came back from a week long coaching clinic at FSU. He called me the other night and asked, " Who is that #84 For FSU" I said, " Rodney Smith. Why do you ask" He said, " Thats one lazy joker you all have. He didnt want to do anything, but that #83 on your team was playing his @$$ off". Those are words that i didnt want to hear.

by I275Nole on Apr 5, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

sounds like the better of 2 options to me

i want my very vocal senior to bust it in practice to set an example, especially since he has the most contention for his spot. when he works harder, the young guys behind him have to pick it up to match. if Rodney wants to be lazy, he will get passed up, and that means a young guy will do well or he will respond to the challenge. but i get the distinct feeling that Rodney has nobody behind him pushing for his spot (nobody else is close to that big but Willie, and he is hurt), and it doesnt surprise me to hear something like that would be him, if anyone.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he's THAT lazy

I’d say maybe a scholarship frees up next year.

by Invictus13 on Apr 5, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sound likes Reid was saying

That the young receivers we have are talented, just like our freshmen on D are talented (Joyner, Jones, Smith). But that it is more difficult to play as a fresh on offense…more to learn.

by BenDNole on Apr 4, 2011 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Fair

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

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by Bud Elliott on Apr 4, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't even know it was being televised...

But thanks for bringing that up.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 4, 2011 10:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I believe

its a 10PM EST re-broadcast on ESPNU while ESPN360.com is showing it live at 4PM.

by CPNole on Apr 4, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the heads up.

I didn’t know ESPNU was showing our game either. I will definitely be tuning in whenever they broadcast it!

by fsunole23 on Apr 4, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good

I’ll go to the game, then review the message board, then take notes on the broadcast. Just wana do my part.

by vanillathrilla83 on Apr 4, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Chris Thompson's back hurt?

Or does he just have a bad back? Back and butt injuries are hard to gauge.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 4, 2011 9:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

would like to know this too

from what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like an actual injury (as you would normally think of an injury)…sounds more like a strain over time type thing that maybe the coaches would rather get rested and back to 100% before summer starts up…just seems that way to me but I could very well be wrong.

by SFLOnole on Apr 4, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is a key contributor

But we do have lots of depth at RB. Thanks though

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 4, 2011 11:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Believe it is a disc issue

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 4, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

What was his complaint?

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I ask only because the cervical vertebrae end in the upper back , and there is no C8. Maybe T7/8?

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is a C8 nerve though. Probably what you meant. I replied too quickly

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 5, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that you were wrong. My question

was “at what level”, and my inquiry was menat to inquire at which vertebral level, not which nerves were involved.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right on

In that case the most likely vertebral levels are L4-L5, or L5-S1 (90% of herniated disks). Damn I hope that’s not the case. C’mon muscle strain/spasm

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 5, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

What complaint?

Scapular? Radiation of pain into the upper extremities?

That would not be toward the lower back, which is the lower back, which is the lumbar region.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

He’s clearly talking about coccygeal vertebrae 7 and 8 (but I guess the pain would be more in your buttocks and down your leg)… ;)

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is why I asked what complaint.

If the pain is non-localized in the buttocks and radiating down into one or both legs, then the problem would most likely be at L5-S1. However, no one seems to know what his complaints are, so I guess we on at a loss until we know more.

by Nole75 on Apr 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

sir mixalot agrees

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bad news on McCray missing the rest of the spring

I’ve held out hope but at this point I’ll be very surprised if he’s on the team next year.

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Apr 4, 2011 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

And I’m not sure I want Moses taking reps from NLS or Erving at this point.

by BenDNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Moses

Injured. Again??

What is really the point, at this point? Is he basically just a warm body to scrimmage against? A scholarship walk-on?

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Apr 5, 2011 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

At this point thats all we've got

Good Kid but destroyed by injuries be it the arm or the leg. Just go tell it to Moses

by fsugrizz on Apr 5, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think so many injuries will actually help EJ in the long run

Hes having to work under some serious pressure with basically his whole line out. So hes having to make plays faster. As summer roles around and the rest of the enrollments get to school. And people heal it should even out a bit for summer. And it make seem to him like he has an hour back their compared to what he is currently dealing with

A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.

by caine115 on Apr 4, 2011 11:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I just hope he knows when and when not to leave the pocket when he’s getting good protection. I don’t want Jake Locker playing at Doak.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 4, 2011 11:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I actually think he's already eclipsed Ponder in that sense.

Ponder was not good at keeping his eyes downfield. He had a ton of faith in his legs, and used them too early IMO on many plays.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

After he spent

nearly 2 years running for his life on each play – can you really blame him?

by StM on Apr 5, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't say 2 years.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't either, but point taken.

That was a HUGE peeve of mine with Ponder. Give your WR’s a chance, man!

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Ponder did exactly what Jimbo wanted him to do

… as far as tucking and running when he did. His legs were more dependable than our WRs.

by sonofagunn on Apr 6, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Debatable, but not really worth debating.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 7, 2011 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Spring Game

Will be re-aired that same night but be sure to DVR, the next replay is about 2-3 weeks later from what I’ve read.

by jenolesone on Apr 5, 2011 12:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Espn3.com will have replays all the time too.

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Apr 5, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not that computer literate, so this is probably a dumb question,

but does the Espn3.com broadcast mean the Spring Game might be on at a Sports Bar?

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

At 4 P.M. You have to be at a computer to watch the game. espn3.com.
At 10 P.M. The game will be replayed on ESPNU which you could probably watch at a Sports Bar.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, after the day of, you can go to ESPN3.com and watch a replay whenever you want.

>>>-----------;;;-->"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit 'em in the mouth, and they don't like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that's what we started out with.'' - Nick Moody >>>-----------;;;-->

by RollNole5 on Apr 5, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

FTSNole, thank you

for explaining how I can watch the Spring Game. This is perfect. I will be going to the Canes Spring Game at Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, with a few Canes buddies, (good guys and they actually graduated from UM unlike most UM bandwagoners). I will naturally attend the Canes game as a fifth columnist. Later, I can catch the Noles. April 16 may be the last time that I am truly happy until Fall practice.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is possible for it to be on at a sports bar

but they’d have to hook a computer up to the screen and it’d look like crap. Chances are it won’t be on either way.

by evenflow58 on Apr 5, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least y’all are healthy. We currently have 1 running back and like 3 offensive linemen. Just had Nick Alajajian go down with a knee injury today. We don’t even have enough players to do a traditional spring game with two teams.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Apr 5, 2011 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

might be hard to run block or pass protect when he's polishing off a Colonial's Secret Recipe 14 piece Fried Family Feast

"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF

by FS4Nole on Apr 5, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

colonel*

"We have to start over. We have to develop our own identity, our own chemistry, our own unity, our own vision of where we want to go...This is just the beginning. Because remember one thing – I tell you all the time: Boys do what they want to do. Champions do what they’ve got to do. " CJF

by FS4Nole on Apr 5, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

How did you end up with so little depth?

It seems like you have had top recruiting class after class, especially 2010’s.

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Apr 5, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

It looks like it hits him in both the forehead and the jaw.

Actually, across the whole left side of his face.

Mike Martin should go coach Hawaii. Then he could have all the poi's he ever wanted - MattDNole

by shonole on Apr 5, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the depth is there at certain positions (DB, WR, TE, QB and LB) but lacking elsewhere (DL, RB and OL) and it just so happens that the injuries all hit at the places where depth was an issue.

The talent at the top is fine with me, just no depth at those positions.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Apr 5, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

fear not

You don’t really need a RB or offensive line in Weiss’ offense. Just a good te, a tall handsy wr, and a media darling quarterback. Check.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good TE we’ve got. Tall handsy WR…negative. Media darling QB…we had one last year. Unless Driskel and/or Brissett counts.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Apr 5, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who is your good TE?

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hines.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Apr 5, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Burton....

http://Twitter.com/DRusso97
#TellJokesGetMoney

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by DRusso97 on Apr 13, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like the injuries hit you

Sounds like the injuries hit you in the places that are most likely to get injured.

Guys that get a ton of contact, every day in the spring. Probably more than they want.

by Sobering on Apr 5, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. The good thing is, none of them, well aside from the Alajajian injury are all out for a long period of time. Now if it was August, I’d be concerned. But still, never want your guys getting injured. Especially when new systems are being installed.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Apr 5, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

My interpretation of any Jimbo Fisher practice report.

“Well I think we did pretty good today. I saw some things, that guy over there did some things, the things we did were great but some things we need to work on. Offense ran some nice sets and they did some things. EJ made a nice play on the ball when the receiver went up to do that thing.”

Am I the only one who finds this endearing yet aggravating?

by AmplifiedJ on Apr 5, 2011 12:40 AM EDT reply actions  

You're not the only one

The vague Coachspeak is Jimbo’s one PR flaw, and it’s where he comes off as most lacking in comparison to Bowden.
There’s no comparison in coaching-Jimbo’s miles ahead-but when it comes to connecting with an audience through an interview, Bowden came off as more personable than Jimbo does.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Apr 5, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

And most keep saying he is a mix of both....hmmmmm

Gripper

Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.

by Gripper on Apr 5, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand the confusion...So he doesn't interview exactly like bobby, or provide cute sound bites like Bobby did.

doesn’t mean he doesn’t have some of the same qualities bowden had.

As for coach speak, bring it on, it is the norm today in successful programs, and organizations.

this Quote is extremely accurate.

With Jimbo Fisher I think you bring Nick Saban’s accountability and discipline and structure coupled with Bobby Bowden’s kind of down home country feel.

A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2

by PalmAireNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Bowden had a gift for humor and a personal charm that disarmed reporters. It served him very well with the national media and gained him a tremendous amount of airtime and print space. Even if FSU was not doing well, he was worth a quote. For the most part he kept his foot out of his mouth and did far more good than harm. But it’s a tough act to follow. Coach Fisher is more straight forward but he does charm reporters and his stream of consciousness style of speaking. Thank god he’s not the glowering sourpuss that Saban is in his conferences. Nor does he make the dumb references some coaches make like Dooley at UT saying “We’re like the Germans before the Normandy Invasion.” What?!?!

Sheriff Branford: The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation.
Buford T. Justice: The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!

by GonzoNole on Apr 5, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Having a southern accent and a good personality does not make a person anything like BB.

Bobby is a good person with a lot of charm. That’s it. I guess it’s fine that people want to call him a mix of both. I would put that mix at 90-10 Saban/Bowden. Charm has soooooo little to do with his approach to coaching.

2011 BCS Bowl
2012 MNC
Eeeeeeexcellent

by SoCalNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would put that mix at 90-10 Saban/Bowden

Agreed. And it’s fine by me, because 2011 football isn’t the same as 1993 football.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree. Jimbo hasn’t quite mastered making coachspeak sound like he’s talking one on one with you in a barber shop.

Of course, I really don’t think we’ll ever see anyone who could do that as well as Bowden in his prime. College football just isn’t that kind of game anymore.

by 38Noles on Apr 5, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see it as a PR flaw

As someone said above, I think everything he says is highly calculated. Weather that means he’s motivating players through what he says (or doesn’t say) about them to the press or if it means he’s keeping his cards close to the vest to avoid opponents gathering useful information. Everything he says has a very inentional puropose.

by SteelerNole21 on Apr 5, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

But that's just the trouble-that's how the soundbites come off, too

And It makes him sound cagey. Sounding cagey is NEVER a good PR strategy.

As a coach it comes with the territory, so it can be excused, but it is not ideal. People want to be around folksy and engaging people.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Apr 5, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is highly calculated

In the interview, he mentions Haggins by number (#12) but but uses Rodney Smith’s full name in the same sentence.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 5, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salesmen related to crowds really well.

Generally, smart and technically competent people (engineers, IT guys, etc.) who do the actual work just create things and make them function really well.

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Jimbo has to sell our program

on top of being an excellent head coach. Otherwise, the media wouldn’t talk to him every other day.

by FTSNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah. just saying from my observations in business

that there’s a spectrum:

SALES/SOCIAL ABILITY <————————I—————————> TECHNICAL COMPETENCE.

We can all think of people on the extremes of either side of that spectrum- social folks who can do nothing but talk, and technical folks who are awkward misanthropes.

I think Bowden and Fisher were both somewhere in the middle in the scale, with Fisher shading more toward technical competence and Bowden more toward social ability.

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can be both.

I have an engineering degree. I was successful in sales out of school, then quit and went back into engineering. Then I got my MBA to start moving back the other direction. Lots of engineers take a similar track. A lot of them are running business units, leading teams, and “selling” their BU to the rest of the organization. The understand the sales side and the technical side. It’s called being well-rounded. You can be both.

by SDnole on Apr 5, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you serious?

You think guys like Saban and Bellichick are regarded as the best because of their salesmanship?

Jimbo sells to recruits, and recruits win.

Has nothing to do with what you do or do not say in some interview.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair, I'm not bagging on him.

Sometimes I don’t even put the “things”…thing….under Coachspeak. Just think it’s a funny and (yes) calculated tic he has. To me, he’s just playing poker with the media and not revealing too much, knowing that we all eat it up anyway. He comes off as having a kind of an understated confidence in the team, players, etc. so as to mess with our expectations. I think he can be personable when he needs to be.

by AmplifiedJ on Apr 5, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

That thing that guy does

Is hard to put into things.

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tight End Ja’Baris Little continues to have a shockingly-nice Spring.

I am absolutely dumbfounded. One year ago this dude was a sack of oats.

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

haha

RicoBert I have been following your comments about JL and I have to say they are hilarious as I am just as shocked.

 If JL scores a TD against any ranked opponent,or maybe wins the Spring Most Improved Player award, can you pull some strings and get a feel good story about him on TN? Maybe follow him around for a day like MattD did on the Coley story (a Classic published piece on TN- need part 2!) ?

The dude needs to be recognized for his hard work and great improvement, if this is not just coach speak. I thought for sure he would transfer or graduate early to make room for the younger players.

by LincolnHighNole on Apr 5, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Deal.

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Remember when Jimbo freaked out at practice? "WHERE'S MY TIGHT END!?"

If I recall correctly, Beau wasn’t even in practice that day (minor injury). You-know-who FTW.

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am rooting for him

I guess you now have the name of the Story: Where’s My Tight End? The Legend of Jabaris Little.

Thanks in advance (fingers crossed JL becomes Dominic Robinson who stepped in for an injured Cro Thorpe and makes one huge TD catch against the Gata in 2003.)

by LincolnHighNole on Apr 6, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jake (Jacob Frahrekrug)sp?

Jake is going to stick. I hadn’t heard anything about him playing center? He plays the whole time at center. Jimbo says that he is going to be a great center? That could be great news, if a new guy can pick up the center calls that quick.

by rspknole1 on Apr 5, 2011 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

It's good for experience.

I think he was at center because they are taking it easy with Spurlock history of concussions(easing him back into hitting), and Stork has a groin injury.

FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of death." - Nick Saban

by goatnole76 on Apr 5, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

immediately after the game

So once again, Jones, what was briefly yours is now mine.

by Ponder This on Apr 5, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im not sure if those cancelled practices have been made up yet.

I wonder if they can make them up after the spring game(correct mistakes from spring game)…IDK

FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of death." - Nick Saban

by goatnole76 on Apr 5, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

They have days off in-between the practices

So they’ll probably grab one or two of those.

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which position(s) benefit most from Spring practice? Least?

Is it a function of age (i.e., old players benefit less than newer ones)?

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

I really like this question

Other than QB, which I think benefits the most by far (all the schematic stuff, timing with receivers, etc.), I would think it would either be OL or DB (both CBs and S), just because it’s a lot about learning a system and getting comfortable in it, which requires repetition.

Least? Maybe DT? I want to say RB, but there’s a lot to learn there in terms of blocking schemes), or K/P, but that doesn’t count.

by paperjames on Apr 5, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're onto something

The positions that emphasize keys, reads, and fundamentals stand to gain the most, while positions that emphasize “play-making” and athleticism over those things are just playing pick-up basketball, so-to-speak.

Having said that, I am now convinced Spring practices were close to worthless for most of the 2000s.

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

When your system is play-making (in reality, no system), I would imagine that the gains from each position group would be very similar. I think it’ll be especially interesting this spring to watch those positions and see if they move from competency to (hopefully) mastery.

by paperjames on Apr 5, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd really like to know more about this:
Three receivers go down to a certain side of the end zone and just give them a chance to catch the ball, and Bert went up and caught it.

I can understand a tipped ball, but that’s apparently not the case here. Reed is not a tall guy. Who did he go up over? Is there a problem with the size of our DBs? Poor technique? What?

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

in other words, if Reid and Joyner were covering, this is not good,

especially when we face much taller receivers than Reed.

Illegal alien.

by PeachTreeNole on Apr 5, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

These reports really have to be taken with a grain of salt. Scrimmages are NOTHING like games.

by TallyBoy on Apr 5, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

The play: Trips "Levels"

Basically, have your WRs stop at various distances and directions (i.e., short curl; 1/2 through endzone then in 1-2 steps; deep guy fade/out)

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 5, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That play kills on NCAA 2010

Just Sayin. If a computer that KNOWS it’s coming can’t stop it, it must be a good play. Amirite?

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't this just sound like

the practice of a half or game ending “hail mary”? If so, the other two WRs could have been Rodney Smith and another tall WR and Reed was the third and had position, the same way that point guards get rebounds. Just a thought.

by Nole75 on Apr 5, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haulstead

Is Bert Reed starting in his place for the Spring? Or is it some other receiver?

by Pinto on Apr 5, 2011 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Even with the injuries on OL? Best defense in ACC?

 JF on the defense:
“I think they looked great. I don’t feel like we are going to face a better defense in our conference”

by BucsNolesRays on Apr 5, 2011 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Lets not get full of ourselves here,

But we do have the talent and coaching to be the best defense in the conference. Lets just hope we can implement some of our talent and coaching this year.

A big middle finger to Mr. Goodell.

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 5, 2011 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

pretty sure that was an EJ quote

Unless videos say otherwise

by vickers8 on Apr 5, 2011 2:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You are correct.

Thought that was out of the ordinary to say in April!

by BucsNolesRays on Apr 5, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Playmakers at WR

Aren’t we returning all of the WR’s that did anything last year. I still think Bert has his moments of greatness and Haulstead could be great, but definately no AJ Greens on the Roster.

by SpearThis on Apr 5, 2011 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

unless Easterling gets drafted high this summer, we return *everybody*

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Run the Ball like '08

I am kind of hoping we are going to run the ball more like in ’08. Freeman could be great for us this year as a better power back than Tye Jones.

How do y’all think Wilder Jr will do? Any play time this year?

by SpearThis on Apr 5, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

A better defense will equate to running the ball more

Teams pass to take the lead but run to hold onto it.

Seems a bit early to speak on Wilder but my guess is he’ll fight Freeman for time in the backfield and play special teams. Now if Thomas screws up again off the field he could quickly see his carries eaten up by Wilder or Freeman.

by evenflow58 on Apr 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The good thing/difference about our WRs this year compared to last year is

last year other than our juniors (Reed & Easterling) our only 2 options were sophomores Haulstead and Smith, who had only 1 reception each prior to 2010. As a result there was a lot of pressure on Haulstead and Smith to step up… quickly. This year we return 4 upperclassmen at WR and add 4: Shaw, Haggins, Dent & Green. So this year we have much less pressure on certain WRs to step up, but many more WRs who can step up. (p.s. I hope Benjamin doesn’t take a RS.) What a difference a year makes….

Championship!

by TLHWG on Apr 5, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hype

The worst teams to hype are the teams returning great players who have just lost great O-linemen. How many teams have you seen get all the hype returning great skill players, then get shut down because it was the O senior O line was the difference?

by SpearThis on Apr 5, 2011 3:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good thing it's only 2 that we lost.

2 key players though.

FEAR THE SPEAR!!!!!!!!!
"Winning when playing poorly is the kiss of death." - Nick Saban

by goatnole76 on Apr 5, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

BAD RICO

I literally hit ‘z’ like 50 times in a row just so I wouldn’t have to read the first one.

by AmplifiedJ on Apr 5, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of the old threads are in the archives

Available with a quick search. Just link them. Some of them are pretty funny.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Apr 5, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

FREE BIRD!

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, i think you mean FREE HAT!

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Beating a dead horse thread...

Bobby made FSU, Bobby lost touch as an old, spoiled legend, Jimbo has FSU headed back in the right direction. The End

by NoleySmokes on Apr 5, 2011 8:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Where is Dogrel when we need him ........

Need a vid of a person beating a dead horse in this thread.

by seminolecpa on Apr 5, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

<---- idiot

should have been a reply to the Bobby/Jimbo comparisons etc.

by seminolecpa on Apr 5, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

not dogrel, but heres a gif to go with your reply fail

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 5, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ah, the ol' bad thread pics...

"This year I am focused on scoring. I want to score, along with getting good field position for the offense. I am going to try and score a little bit this year. I kinda miss the endzone a little bit." -G5

by DutchFSU on Apr 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have bet money

that Frank would be the one to post this.

Bring back Peter Tom Willis— a true Nole! -FiestaNole

by Miaminole on Apr 5, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gots a slew of em.

"This year I am focused on scoring. I want to score, along with getting good field position for the offense. I am going to try and score a little bit this year. I kinda miss the endzone a little bit." -G5

by DutchFSU on Apr 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't had to use 'em since MySpace. What a crappy web site.

"This year I am focused on scoring. I want to score, along with getting good field position for the offense. I am going to try and score a little bit this year. I kinda miss the endzone a little bit." -G5

by DutchFSU on Apr 5, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never like to read this kind of thing.
It was good," Manuel said about his first scrimmage. "Personally, I felt really good out there. Like I said before, my shoulder doesn’t hurt anymore, so I think that makes a world of difference for us as an offense.

Granted, I don’t know the whole interview in context, but if the shoulder was brought up on its own, it kind of makes me wonder. Is something up? If the shoulder is not an issue, it should be just that. A non-issue.

"This year I am focused on scoring. I want to score, along with getting good field position for the offense. I am going to try and score a little bit this year. I kinda miss the endzone a little bit." -G5

by DutchFSU on Apr 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not positive.

But, I believe he was referring to the way the deep ball floated on him in a couple games. Maybe Jimbo scaled back the playbook to compensate for this?

by NoleySmokes on Apr 5, 2011 9:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sounds like he was asked how it felt to be back out there scrimmaging and he responded with it felt good and his arm being healthy makes him a better player now.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are paranoid.

Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman

by CornNole on Apr 5, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harvey Danger. Rodney Dangerfield. Field of Dreams.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick

by tricknole on Apr 5, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

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