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Florida State Recruiting: Assessing The Minimum Needs

Recruiting is largely a numbers game. Coaches need to know how many spots are likely to be available before accepting a commitment from a prospect. We're not in position to predict the future and tell you exactly how many players FSU will take at each position. But we are able to tell you the minimum number FSU will need to take to maintain appropriate depth at each position, both in 2012 and beyond. We hope this will assist you as a primer for future recruiting features.

Offense

A team typically carries 41-42 offensive players. 'Noles will return 35 offensive players before any attrition. Keep in mind, it is not realistic to expect 35 players to return. Proper planning would indicate that at least three players will not return, putting the number at a more likely 32, meaning FSU would look to take 8-10 new offensive players.

Quarterback

Absent anyone leaving, which is entirely possible, FSU returns four quarterbacks in 2012. Fisher has stated that he will take a quarterback every year. Will Secord would be a prime transfer candidate, as being a backup to a player his junior would not afford him playing time. Minimum Need: one

Skill

Instead of listing "RB, WR, TE", the skill category is better as it allows for greater flexibility. "Skill" is the aggregate of running backs, full backs, tight ends, and receivers. Some teams prefer to carry more receivers, others want more backs, and yet still others want more right ends. FSU does not stay static here, and in some years has shown it will carry more at one spot than another. But 20-22 is typically the desired number. FSU will technically return 18, though attrition of 1-2 is certainly expected here as some players passed by younger players will want to go elsewhere to get some playing time in the latter stage of their college careers. Thus, the minimum need is three, though we realistically expect FSU to take a bit more than that.

Offensive Line

Jimbo Fisher said on signing day that he wants to carry 18 offensive linemen. That is hyperbole, and not realistic by any stretch. The ideal number for a team to carry is 16, give or take one. That allows for a full two-deep, plus 2-3 swing players, and 3-4 red-shirts which are important for some offensive linemen. FSU just brought in the top offensive line class in the country, so this class will be smaller. FSU will return 12 before any attrition. That means FSU will bring in a minimum of two offensive linemen.

Defense

Like the offense above, a defense typically carries 40-42 scholarship players. FSU will return 34 defenders in 2012, but it would be negligent to assume that number won't be considerably lower. With 21 upperclassmen, multiple players will transfer as they want to actually play the sport they love instead of sitting on the bench in their final seasons.

Defensive Line

A team typically wants to carry 16 defensive linemen, give or take. Next year, FSU will return exactly 16. But with 11 of those 16 being upperclassmen, you can expect transfers and for FSU to go overloaded at the position for a year. This is a special year for Florida State, grabbing the #1 player in Texas, and the 'Noles will almost assuredly play with 19 defensive linemen in 2012. Guys just do not want to work their butts off for four years and not play in the latter part of their careers. Expect FSU to bring in a minimum of four defensive linemen, though that number will likely be higher as defensive linemen are always a crapshoot to qualify.

Linebacker

FSU wants to carry 10 linebackers, give or take one. Next year the 'Noles return 7 linebackers. Given the high number of defensive linemen FSU will carry in 2012, and the relative lack of linebacker talent this year, FSU will likely roll with 8-9 in 2012. Attrition will likely be zero or one, so the minimum is one. Further complicating matters for us in determining the minimums, is the potential for players to move to linebacker. Nick Moody and James Wilder, Jr. all have the size to play linebacker. We are not saying they will play linebacker, but rather that they could.

Defensive Back

FSU seems to want to carry 15 defensive backs, give or take one. We would like to see them carry less, but Mark Stoops likes to run some nickel and we aren't in a position to argue with Stoops, particularly when Fisher has signed off on it. It's a preference, and there is no right or wrong as long as all positions are adequately addressed. FSU will return 12 defensive backs next year before any departures, which are sure to occur. We project two departures/ position changes, and believe that is conservative. Given that, the minimum is two.

Specialty

Florida State loses punter Shawn Powell, and will take one specialty player to replace him.

To summarize

1 QB
3 Skill
2 OL
4 DL
1 LB
2 DB
1 ST

Those are the absolute minimums.

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Well done!

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks!

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the breakdown

It will certainly make it easier to help interpret recruiting for positions this season.

I am surprised by the # of DBs required and am a little worried given that we seem to be trailing UF/Miami for some of the best talent in that area. Haven’t thought much about the other positions yet.

by StM on Apr 6, 2011 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

With PJ in the fold FSU only needs 1 more

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd love for that to be either Howard or Poole

Geno’s not realistic at all even though he’s the best CB in the nation IMO and it isn’t even all that close

by westcoastnolefan on Apr 6, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So FSU could look like this in 2012

04 QB
21 Skill
16 OL
19 DL
9 LB
14 DB
2 ST

That’s real heavy on DL, but you don’t pass up the chance to take the DL we have, and especially not to take a lesser crop of linebackers.

2013 will definitely be more LB and DB heavy then

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t see this staff reaching for any players this year. If they do it will be a grayshirt type offer to prove themselves to the staff.

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then 2013 would look like (before departures)

4 QB
C. Trickett* OR W. Secord *
J. Coker*
2012 QB*

18 Skill
J. Gehres*
J. Haggins
K. Shaw
G. Dent
C. Green*
T. Sessions*
W. Tye*
N. O’Leary
Freeman
Wilder, Jr.
R. Greene
K. Benjamin
E. Beverly*
Pender
2012 RB
2012 WR
2012 WR
2012 TE

15 OL
B. Stork* (G/C)
H. Orelus* (G/T)
G. Faircloth* (G/T)
B. Snider* (G/C)
D. Foose* (G/T)
T. Pettis (G)
S. Lovelady ©
J. Prestwood (T)
B. Hart (T)
R. Carter (G)
J. Matias (T)
T. Jackson (G)
A. Barron ©
2012 OL
2012 OL

14 DL
D. McAllister* (DT)
D. Cummings (DT)
B. Werner (DE)
D. Hicks* (DE)
C. Erving* (DT)
T. Jernigan (DT)
D. Mitchell (DT)
N. Lawrence (DT)
G. Newberry (DE)
D. Stuckey (DT)
C. Casher (DE)
D. Fowler, Jr. (DE)
M. Edwards, Jr. (DE)
2012 DL

8 LB
J. Luc
C. Jones
Tel. Smith
H. Onwukaife*
N. Terrell*
Ter. Smith
A. Jenkins
2012 LB

13 DB
X. Rhodes* (CB)
L. Joyner (S)
T. Brooks (S)
G. Demps* (S)
J. Bright* (S)
C. Abram (S
N. Waisome (CB)
K. Williams (S)
T. Hunter (S)
K. Smith (CB)
L. Brutus (CB)
PJ Harris
2012 DB

Aguayo

It’s pretty obvious who will be leaving to play for Terry Bowden.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to be obtuse

What are the asterisks for? Guys who could leave early (either for good, NFL, or bad, N. Ala.)? If so, how is Christian Green already a candidate to be one of these people?

by CJS55 on Apr 6, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

redshirts

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Got it

Couple folks on that list that I thought had redshirted but apparently did not. Is the plan to have Aguayo K/P as long as it works out, like Gano, to save a scholly. Not that he will be able to do both as well as GG did.

by CJS55 on Apr 6, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know there

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daniel (DA) might know the answer to that question on Aguayo

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Aguayo does both now in HS and does well at each

so he’ll probably be on track to do both here but this could change if the coaches aren’t happy.

Championship!

by TLHWG on Apr 6, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

remember, Graham only did it for a year

thats not only a lot to ask of a guy (better to focus on one that half and half on both), but its putting all your eggs in one basket. if he gets hurt, it means you now have to play walk-ons at K, P, and kickoffs. ask Clemson how playing walk-on kickers worked out for them (hint: it wasnt pretty).

i would think the better option is to take another specialist the next year, and which position Aguayo is better at playing will likely determine whether we sign a K or P. but i cant think of any other position on the field that really needs 1 more scholarship that we can afford to take it from a K or P.

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

No need to look at Clemson

If you recall GG was out a couple games at the beginning of his senior year – Powell punted and a walk on or two kicked. I seem to recall there were a few missed extra points in those games.

by bdahern on Apr 6, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

good memory, and a perfect example, thanks!

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 6, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can get a walk on to do one of them, being a school in Florida— a state with a ton of soccer players

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

A former NFL punter who played for FSU has a son in this class.

His son averaged around 40 yards per punt last year. He is also a undersized QB at 5’11-6’0. I can’t think of his sons name. #DisappointedInMyself

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good job with that

I’m slacking here. Chase and Rick both attended FSU Junior Day. If we need a punter, and Chase looks like he has the goods, why not see if he will take a grayshirt offer unless we can make room. Chase is also a pretty good QB just undersized.

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 7, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, that roster looks goooooood

still I see a few guys who will likely transfer b/c of lack of PT. p.s. w/ 2 full seasons under his belt, I see Coker starting as a RS So in 2013.

Championship!

by TLHWG on Apr 6, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greater need, OLB or MLB?

Have to feel w/ Steward going to Clemson that OLB is a bigger need. Even w/ Arrington Jenkins this year and the possiblity that Casher (if he makes it all the way to NSD or makes it into school at all) could play OLB, do we still need to sign a top tier to elite player.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 6, 2011 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd say MLB.

Terrance and Telvin Smith, Bradham, Terrell, A.Jenkins, Holmes O., and CJ7 are all OLB. Luc and V. Williams are the only MLB’s we have.

by FTSNole on Apr 6, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holmes O is a Mike and has been playing there since late last year.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, Bradham isn’t in the discussion as he’ll be gone for 2012

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

How big is Holmes?

Anyway I stand corrected, that’s 3 MLB’s and 5 OLB’s so I’d say OLB is more of a need.

by FTSNole on Apr 6, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

235ish for holmes

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Casher, if he makes it in, is a definite DE. 6’4" 232 already, imo

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t see why 247 put him at OLB. He could be over 250lbs by the time he is on campus.

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Casher will be that big.

But I understand your point. He’s such a freakish athlete that he would be a perfect hybrid DE/OLB but that would just be situational down and distance.

by Professor Moriarty on Apr 6, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could you imagine....

Fisher yelling “Where’s my tight end!?!?!?” and being able to pick either Nick or Kent off the bench? /drool

by StM on Apr 7, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just watched Taylor's film and was very impressed

But, in our scheme, what are the chances he comes in the year after NOL? Any possiblity that at ~6’5" 210 he could play some wideout? He looks fast in the vid, but I can’t judge competition, etc.

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 8, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

we do run 2 TE sets when we have the talented bodies to do it

put Taylor at TE and O’Leary at H-back and you can play them both

"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody

by nole07 on Apr 8, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

He is 6’5" 225 now entering his senior year, so no chance

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 8, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Taylor will be used completely differently in our O than NOL

NOL will be used as an HB who will line up in different places and move all over the field… ideally in space. Taylor will be used as a proto-typical TE, e.g., line up at the end of the OL, etc.

Championship!

by TLHWG on Apr 9, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michael@TN

Thank you for this and for keeping us updated on recruits and what-not over on the Recruiting Discussions.

by FTSNole on Apr 6, 2011 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Your welcome!

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe in 2013. It’s unlikely for 2012 because there isn’t an immediate need, and the roster crunch.

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 6, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It will depend on what type of talent is out there and interest in us

If we see a Tank Carradine type talent at MLB/OLB it’s a possibility with a down year in the state of Florida at LB.

Follow me on twitter for recruiting info http://twitter.com/MichaelatTN

by Michael@TN on Apr 6, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Favorite line:
We are not saying they will play linebacker, but rather that they could.

Good stuff, Michael. This would be a good “primer” to pin as it covers the basics and could be easily updated year to year. Just a thought.

by TRMNole on Apr 6, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Great Post - thanks

but you needed to sum it up…and I see Bud couldn’t help himself and did

by 93noleman on Apr 6, 2011 4:16 PM EDT reply actions  

It doesn't get discussed a lot but

man am I going to miss Shawn Powell.

"Do the work, and the results will come." -Jordan

by NeuroNole on Apr 6, 2011 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Boot to the moon

What are you glorifying with your life?

by ricobert1 on Apr 6, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz hands?

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Apr 6, 2011 7:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

lol

GO NOLES!!! SCALP EM!

by NOLEFAN1 on May 7, 2011 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff

What a difference 2 years makes. It wasn’t too long ago our depth sucked

by rabidnole21 on Apr 6, 2011 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I liked it so much, I rec'd the article!

/Victor Kiam

But seriously, great job Michael.

"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra

by Dogrel on Apr 7, 2011 12:21 AM EDT reply actions  

When we talk about attrition...

Does that include things other than transfers like: Dismissed from the team like Nigel Carr or Jarmon Fortson type departures?

by camfsu04e on Apr 7, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Yup.

Guys like Bud and Michael are able to track players that are potential liabilities, guys who cause trouble under the radar and many of whom pan out just fine. And the general numbers account for the unexpected, to the extent they can.

by TRMNole on Apr 7, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yesm though you hope we have less of that

'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)

Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!

by Bud Elliott on Apr 7, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

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