Noles News 06.29.11
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 9:02 AM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintReally a tremendous collection of links today for you to enjoy.
FSU
Ranking the ACC's defensive ends - ACC Blog - ESPN
2. Br andon Jenkins, Florida State: He finished sixth nationally last year with 13.5 sacks, and 12th in TFLs (21.5). He was a first-team all-conference selection as a true sophomore in his first season as a full-time starter. He also had five two-sack games in 2010, including one against rival Florida.
I am fine with Jenkins at #2, but Werner is better than at least a few on this list. I do not, however, expect HD to know this yet because she is tasked with covering all 12 teams.
ACC Football Attendance Analysis - Shakin The Southland
Fan attendance is a discussion topic and is often seen as a reflection of fan support and program success. Today we will look at attendance figures along with several other items among schools in the ACC in 2010.
Things I noticed:
- As I've said before, Clemson has the only fanbase capable of matching the fanbases at the big SEC schools.
- FSU still has good attendance numbers and there's no doubt that a lack of proximity to other schools and major population centers hurts FSU here.
- Even when you go by the bogus official attendance numbers reported by Miami, the 'Canes still saw about 1 of every 3 seats remain vacant during home games.
Rivals
Florida lost the baseball national championship last night. That they were able to get there is directly related to FSU's continued employment of an awful baseball coach and recruiting coordinator for many years. Much like Meyer did when FSU continued to let Bowden hang on, UF cleaned FSU's clock in recruiting. That should change somewhat with Mike Bell as the new pitching coach.
Eye on the U | UM picks up verbals from LB Northrup, TE Holifield, 2012 class up to 18 commitments
The Hurricanes picked up two more verbal, non-binding commitments on Tuesday. The first, 6-2, 215-pound outside linebacker Reggie Northrup from Jacksonville First Coast is considered the 26th best at his position according to ESPN. The other, Tallahassee Godby receiver/tight end Brandon Holifield (6-6, 216), just started playing football three months ago and isn't even the best pass catcher on his team.
FSU did offer Northrup. The 'Noles did not offer Holifield. Holifield is a very good track and basketball player, but he has never played football aside from this Spring. He held zero offers from BCS schools.
Such has been the story this summer with Golden's second recruiting class. For every highly-regarded recruit he's landed a commitment from, there's another player recruiting analysts sort of scratch their heads at. Charles Fishbein of Elite Scouting Services said he likes the players UM has offered and received commitments from, but thinks Golden and his staff are "taking a lot of kids they can wait on."
Indeed. Finding a few gems is likely if a staff is good at scouting. But having a class of mostly "sleepers" and projects is not a winning formula.
"I don't think they're doing a bad job, I just think they're taking a lot of kids that are going to need time to develop, not instant impact type guys," Fishbein said. "That's not necessarily a bad thing. But when you're losing as many guys as they're losing, you need a few that can play right away. The teams they're trying to catch aren't waiting for kids to develop. They're reloading."
Fishbien nails it! It is well documented that Al Golden will have a huge rebuilding project in year two since Miami loses 21 scholarship seniors, including 12 starters and 6 key reserves. In fact, we started beating this drum before anyone. We were the first to establish how deep a trouble Miami is in for 2012 because of the huge failures of the 2010 recruiting class (33% attrition after only two semesters!) And we said that Miami needs to have one of the best classes of the decade if it is to avoid a disaster in 2012 (think 7-5 or 6-6 with 28,000 people in the stands). Miami is not doing that. The 'Canes are simply bringing in a good class. It's not anything close to the classes being signed by Jimbo and Muschamp.
ESPN recruiting insider Corey Long said while UM's 2012 class "isn't going to win the 2012 recruiting national championship, they're loading up on athletes -- and some of them are real good."
Miami needs to win the 2012 recruiting national championship. A class of 30 players that simply ranks in the top 7 or 8 will not do it. The 'Canes need 4-5 immediate freshmen starters at key positions to come from this class.
"I think in general some Miami fans are wondering what's going on," Long said. "But you look at some of the players they've gotten [mentions several good players." "It might not be the sexiest group of kids, but the guys they're recruiting and getting commitments from players they're seeing up close and have a plan for. They're doing their due diligence. If a coach sees a player and believes he can play at the level they want him to and the level they'll be facing, he'll take them. That's anywhere. Al Golden has his own level of evaluating talent. Every coach sees something different. They're inviting kids to camp, watching them and taking the ones that stand out. That's what they're supposed to do."
Some Miami fans might think Golden is still recruiting for Temple. Even if Golden is an excellent evaluator of talent, he isn't at such a level where Jimbo and Muschamp and other coaches at elite schools are simply missing the opportunity to offer most of Miami's commitments.
Rivals250 DE Martin Aiken Commits to Clemson - Shakin The Southland
Clemson is the only ACC school even sniffing FSU's recruiting right now.
Summer Wake Forest Football Overview: Schedule - Blogger So Dear
2011 Wake Forest Football Schedule Preview and Overview
WRAL: NCAA Clears Coples " Tar Heel Fan
Quinton Coples is perhaps the ACC's best player. So him being cleared by the NCAA is a huge deal for the conference.
The Boston College Football Marketing Challenge - BC Interruption
The unique challenges of marketing a college football program in an NFL market were among the topics discussed at the Big City Marketing Summit. Hopefully Boston College's AD was taking notes.
Edsall's appeal, like Friedgen's, is that he's the kind of "high floor" guy who can build a foundation that delivers winning seasons in the six to nine-win range in perpetuity; he could have stayed at UConn forever winning eight games a year. He's not going to let the bottom fall out, and he's not going anywhere else anytime soon. Bet that he's still around in five years, probably with a winning record.But unlike UConn, he's not the architect of Maryland's rise to respectability, and sooner or later, just holding the line comes with its own frustrations of the "low ceiling" variety, usually beginning with a lack of trophies. Friedgen delivered an ACC championship at the beginning of his tenure and still couldn't elude the ax with a winning season in the end. Barring an unforeseen, unprecedented upgrade in the overall talent level, a conference title on Edsall's watch will be a minor miracle, just as it was in 2001. If he manages to avoid the stagnation and apathy that did in his predecessor, it will be a major one.
This goes well with our next item...
A big week for Maryland football recruiting just got a lot bigger: a host of new recruits committed to the Terrapins, with two confirmed and another two rumored. If all four are Terps, that makes it seven commitments in the past five days, a rate Maryland fans aren't used to.
And they aren't of the quality it takes to beat FSU. As I wrote the other day, Maryland should try to consistently make a bowl game.
USC, UNC, and Ohio State: A Compendium of NCAA Violations - Along The Olentangy
A complete table containing USC, UNC, and Ohio State's NCAA violations along with punishments.
General CFB
Amnesty In College Football To Work Towards A Solution?
Would this work?
2011 Season Preview: Independence, Improvement And The BYU Cougars - SBNation.com
BYU has always had an obvious independent streak. In 2011, they commit fully to their independence, striking out on their own with a series of tough, high-visibility road games. They unquestionably improved later in 2010; can they sustain that momentum in trips to Oxford, Austin, Corvallis and Dallas?It's worth repeating: BYU played like a Top 25 team over the final two months of the season, and a lot of the reasons why -- good offensive line, potentially great defensive line, quarterback who gets his bearings, skill positions with improving depth -- will remain reasons for optimism in 2011. If they weren't suddenly shaky at the safety position, I'd absolutely think of them as a Top 25 team heading into this fall. BYU is suddenly shaky at safety, though one has to wonder if the early opponents on their schedule can take advantage. Ole Miss and Texas were not exactly known for their passing proficiency (or even their offensive proficiency) last year.
With no conference title to chase, it's easy to begin looking at BYU with the long-focus lens. Heaps, Hoffman and company are super young, and the Cougars have access to a seemingly unlimited supply of quality linemen. That alone is a nice base of talent, though seeing their recruiting rankings above, one quickly comes to understand that the overall base of talent might still need a little work. Enter new recruiting coordinator (and running backs coach) Joe DuPaix, who appears to potentially be looking to expand BYU's recruiting base beyond its LDS framework. In theory, this makes sense -- it's not like Notre Dame recruits only Catholics -- but we'll see how things take shape in practice. BYU is aiming incredibly high with their move to independence, and a nice season in 2011 could mean good things when combined with extra visibility. I see eight wins as the Cougars' baseline, though the ceiling gets raised quite a bit if they win a couple of their early, high-visibility matchups before settling in against WAC opponents late. The future could be bright for BYU, but the present has a chance to be pretty good as well.
I have to ask then: was FSU's top-15 rating boosted by beating the eventually-good BYU when the Cougars were quite bad?
Baylor’s going back to bowl play in 2011. Could you have imagined that Briles would succeeded where so many others have tried and failed? Well, he has, putting the Bears into yearly bowl contention by rebuilding this offense, landing some very impressive talent and now, with Bennett’s arrival, doing his best to put forth a defense on an even level with a potent scoring attack. Bennett’s a great coach, but it does seem as if Baylor will again be carried by this offense. Griffin is in the Heisman mix, though his team’s record is probably going to prevent him from being too viable a national candidate. The offensive line looks very good, even without Watkins at left tackle, and the receiver corps features five targets with extensive experience. Baylor might be even more potent offensively than it was a year ago, in fact. But the defense is a question mark: replacing Taylor will be a chore, and Baylor needs several sophomores – those ends, Kent, Holl and Dixon, for example – to step up and produce in major roles. They have the talent do so, but the defense might be a year away. There’s also the schedule; count Baylor among those teams who don’t adore the new nine-game Big 12 slate. But there are only four true road games, even if the Bears do end the year with Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Texas. Still, it doesn’t look like a schedule conducive to great success – three or four years ago, this is a schedule that would point towards a nine-loss season. But this isn’t the Baylor of 2006 or 2007; this is the Baylor of 2011, which has the talent and coaching to go toe-to-toe with the rest of the Big 12. There are some issues to address, but I’d be very surprised if Baylor doesn’t get to at least six wins and return to bowl play.
2011 Season Preview: Last Impressions And The Michigan State Spartans - SBNation.com
Michigan State didn't make the most of its last impression in 2010, but the Spartans still won 11 games and played as consistently well as almost any team in the country. State is built for winning close games, but with a thinner offensive line and a defense reliant on sophomores stepping up, they might be a year away from returning to the land of double-digit wins.One would think that a major conference team that managed to win 11 games despite an overall ranking of 30th (and despite getting obliterated by the best team on its schedule) got some lucky bounces along the way. And to be sure, a 4-0 record in close games suggests the same (after all, the genius fake field goal against Notre Dame was only genius because an Irish defender fell down). But in all, they weren't quite as lucky as you might think. Their YPP margin is balanced out slightly by what was rather poor fumbles luck, and as their Adj. Score suggests above, they really were quite consistent. State succeeded in ways they can duplicate in the future -- punishing run game, play-action, and an aggressive, fundamentally sound defense. But while there is a lot to like about the offense (basically the same things one would have liked last year, minus some line depth), the defense looks as if it is probably a year away from regaining its 2010 form. You can succeed counting on sophomores, but it's difficult to plan on it.
We have just about finalized our Football Outsiders 2011 projections, and it appears as if the Legends division is going to be a complete free-for-all, with Nebraska, State, Michigan and Iowa all having a chance at the crown. State gets Michigan at home but has to head to both Lincoln and Iowa City, and that will probably preclude them from taking the title. But with underclassmen in the backfield and a super-young defense, State should be able to build for making serious noise in 2012.
Pre-Snap Read: #67- Connecticut
The Huskies always outplayed their expectations under Edsall, with 2010 only the most recent example of this trait. It was almost like clockwork: UConn would enter the year overlooked, underrated and under-the-radar but would more often than not end ahead of more talented teams in the Big East. Can Pasqualoni have the same impact? There’s no way to know: Pasqualoni was a winner at Syracuse, but whether he can do the same with the Huskies remains to be seen. I think he’ll keep UConn in the conference mix, that’s for sure; whether there’s a B.C.S. bowl in the program’s future is impossible to predict, though the Big East remains open to nearly all comers every season. One thing I do feel safe in predicting: UConn is not going back to the B.C.S. in 2011. I also don’t think UConn is winning another eight games in the regular season, though the Huskies are ahead of Rutgers, Louisville and Syracuse – the latter only slightly – in the conference standings. But there are some major issues, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. The quarterback situation is a mess, though it’s important to note that UConn has gotten by without solid quarterback play for years. There are a lack of options at running back, even if Shoemate has talent. The interior of the line needs work, and while there is depth at receiver there is not a tremendous amount of talent. The good news: the defense is definitely good enough to lead UConn back to bowl play. But it won’t be a pretty season, in my mind – a year full of low-scoring, tight wins and losses. I think UConn gets back to bowl play but not by much: at least six wins, perhaps seven, but not in the Big East title picture.
Pre-Snap Read: #66 Oregon State
There are reasons for concern. There’s another tough schedule, one that sends Oregon State to Wisconsin, Arizona State, Utah and Oregon. The Beavers also host B.Y.U., Stanford and Washington. While not quite on par with last year’s slate, which started and closed with a bang, there are not very many games on the schedule where can immediately pencil in a win – that’s as of today, though there’s a lot of time until September. Then there are the roster issues: running back, receiver, defensive line and linebacker. The Beavers will need at least two, perhaps three backs to help recoup the production lost when Jacquizz Rodgers left for the N.F.L. a year ahead of schedule. If the injury issues are resolved, the receiver corps will be in fine shape; unfortunately, there’s no way to know if James Rodgers and Halahuni will be back by the start of the season – it seems unlikely that Halahuni will be back for September. The defense has significant holes to address along the front seven, especially along the interior of the line. Glover is a nice prospect at end, but I’m worried about his ability to handle the punishment he’s due to take at tackle. Now, keep this in mind: with last season as one of the few exceptions, Oregon State seems to play beyond its means under Riley. So perhaps returning to an underdog role will be just what the doctor ordered for the Beavers in 2011. I do think this is important, and it’s perhaps the main reason why I think O.S.U. will return to bowl play this fall. But I don’t think this team is going to be great, even if Riley always seems to make something out of less than something. It’s going to be tough to make waves in a deadly Pac-12 North, but O.S.U. could challenge California and Washington for the third spot in the division.
Riley is an excellent coach.
Houston Nutt had said that 2010 looked like a rebuilding year, but I don’t think any of us believed it. This was a team that had all the pieces in place on defense, one thought, and with the arrival of Jeremiah Masoli had the sort of quarterback tailor-made — again, one thought — for what Nutt wanted to do offensively. Well, that wasn’t the case: Ole Miss was rebuilding, surprisingly so, and suffered the consequences in the win column. What’s a little frightening is that this season’s prospects look far less rosy than they did at this point a year ago. This much-maligned defense has very significant holes along the front seven, particularly along the interior of the line. The secondary returns most of last season’s pieces, but this is a group that couldn’t get stops or force turnovers in 2010. The quarterback position remains unsettled and there is a complete lack of proven play-makers at wide receiver. And then there’s this schedule — oh, this schedule — which again leaves little to no time for these Rebels to rise up for air. So there’s the bad news. The good news? The offensive line is superb. Mackey, though inexperienced, has the talent to make things happen under center. The defense, even with these concerns, can’t be much worse. It may just be a matter of pride for Ole Miss: take something from last year’s embarrassment and turn it into motivation to turn things around. I think the Rebels will do that, but it will only take this team so far. The year hinges on how Ole Miss fares against the roughly-equal-to-lesser teams on the schedule: Southern Illinois, Vanderbilt, Fresno State, Auburn, Kentucky and Louisiana Tech. Ole Miss goes bowling if it wins five of those six. Go 4-2 and it will be slightly more difficult. I think Nutt pulls out a bowl bid, but it’s going to be close: 6-6 is a safe prediction, but I doubt Ole Miss can do better than 7-5.
And that's it for today, folks.
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Here we go. Miami to lose to Duke in 2012.
We won’t be as good as this year, obviously, but I don’t think we sink as low as many on here do.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
I’ll make you a bet:
assuming the schedule does not change, Miami will be closer to missing a bowl in 2012 than it will be to winning to games.
So I get 7-5 or worse. You get 8-4 or better.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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I actually figure
7-5, depending on how the ball bounces.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, I'll have to see Golden's gameday coaching.
I know he’s still an unknown on gameday.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
He's actually quite well known
for not being able to beat good teams….on gameday.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Be nice to cane,
it’s not even noon yet.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
He took a team that was kicked out of the Big East.
Let me say that again, He took a team that was kicked out of the BIG EAST and beat the Big East champion.
All I know, right now, is that I like what he’s done so far.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
How I view Golden,
careful so far not to do anything wrong, could be very good, still skeptical.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The biggest things he's done is
rebuilding alot of the relationships with the local high schools. You wouldn’t believe how badly Shannon eroded them. The other is he has the marketing department focusing more northward into central Florida. Having the local talent is nice, but you can’t win with JUST Miami kids anymore.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. Randy was such an introvert.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
That's true
and by itself that’s a very impressive bullet on the resume. The most talented team in the MAC (pre-season favorites) had 5 conference wins last year against teams with a combined 13-47 record—UConn was actually the only team they beat with a winning record at 8-5. There were 5 MAC teams with winning records….Temple was one of those, lost to 3 of those and didn’t play the other.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Hell, right now, at UM, I'd be happy to just beat the teams we're suppose to.
If Shannon did at Miami what Golden did at Temple, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. We lost to South frickin’ Florida.
Everyone also overlooks that Temple was 1-16 before that run. That’s a HUGE turnaround, no matter how you spin it.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
But were they 1-16 against the MAC?
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
A team that goes 1 - 16 in the Big East isn't gonna be expected to compete at any level.
MAC, Conference USA, GHSA Class A.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
MAC ball is quite bad though.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Just giving the evidence to support my statement
That’s how it works here. Would you prefer “Jimbo rules, Golden sucks, fear the spear, queer” type of reasoning?
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
because I've seen that version, too.
not here, though.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Did I try to refute what you said? Why the attitude?
What was Jimbo’s record as a Head Coach before last year? I know Golden still has to prove himself. That’s why I always say I like what I’ve seen, so far.
I think people forget that Jimbo wasn’t already a championship winning head coach when he took over last year.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
one key though is that he HAS won a championship at the highest level and been through the rigors in the best conference in college… his resume, even before last year was MUCH more impressive than goldens, IMO… though I admit he was unproven as a head coach, his record as offensive coordinator speaks for itself… I personally would much rather have someone who has been a coordinator at the highest level and has had success than a headcoach of a mediocre team, but thats just me…
I hope this does not come across as bashing as I respect your opinions. I also think taking a “wait and see approach” is best, not only for Golden but for us with Jimbo as well (1 year does not a pattern make). I am just stating that I would prefer Jimbo’s resume to that of Golden.
by newdynastynole on Jun 29, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Because this
Let me say that again, He took a team that was kicked out of the BIG EAST and beat the Big East champion.
was irritatingly irrelevant. And this
That’s a HUGE turnaround, no matter how you spin it.was just plain irritating….I didn’t spin anything. Just gave some facts.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
My bad, then. I wasn't trying to come across that way.
What’s irritating from the other side of the fence is the complete dismissal of anything Golden has done. I know most Miami fans are building him up before seeing the product on the field, but taking Temple to a bowl game is still a pretty big accomplishment for a young head coach.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I'm a moody SOB
So, don’t apologize or take any offense.
:-)
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a blog. I don't take offense.
I know I’m in enemy waters, with a bunch of Injuns wanting my scalp. Oooops, was that not PC enough for college football?
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Cane is being somewhat fair...
I remember we all FSU fan’s were getting fairly excited at some of the smallest accomplishments under Jimbo…when we heard they were instituting new nutrition programs we got excited, we saw a quality strength and conditioning coach come in and we got excited…that list goes on…I hate the cane’s as much as everyone hear but if Golden is slowly repairing the recruiting relationships I can’t blame miami fans for feeling good about that…I still think they are miles behind but I don’t think it is unreasonable…
by NicktheNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Great post
For perspective. Very good points here.
Im mobile, but I hope this gets greened.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
by CornNole on Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but he was a championship winning assistant coach
and he coached under extremely successful HCs, with great success everywhere he went. Golden forever has that undeniable knack on his resume, and Fisher never did.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
So was Randy Shannon.
Like I’ve said before, and I use this analogy when discussing how Muschamp will bring UF instant championships, there’s alot more Randy Shannons than there are Jimbo Fishers.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I gotta say, as much as I liked Shannon, and as much as I liked Kirby Hocutt
I like Donna Shalala even more.
Without her, FSU could not have come back as quickly as it already has.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
And since you've now brought the Fisher comparison
into the discussion (unsolicited), I’ll be happy to tell you I was quite skeptical of hiring a guy with no HC experience. No, I haven’t forgotten he was a rookie HC last year. And I never will.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
You haven't but alot have.
Fisher is treated as an elite head coach after one year at the helm. I, personally, think Jimbo will be regarded as an elite HC. He hasn’t done anything to make me think otherwise, yet.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I personally think reports on Miami's demise are premature
And also agree that nobody knows how Golden will do at this juncture. But we saw Jimbo hit the ground sprinting. From the moment he took over FSU has done nothing but go up. I think the hesitation on our side about Golden is that Miami hasn’t seen the same boom when he took over.
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Golden has more to change than Fisher did.
Fisher got a chance to influence some of what he wanted to do before taking over. Golden had to just jump in.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
not to defend a cane
but CJF was also here since 07 having time to lay some ground work slowly but surely under bobby.. golden didn’t have that chance. I think its kinda unfair to compare the two since they are totally different cases. If Golden had been in Miami these past few years under shannon tryin to fix shannon’s miscues maybe he would of hit the ground running. Obviously never know. I won’t discount Golden yet but obviously wouldn’t trade Fischer for pretty much anyone right now either.
by swag surfin on Jun 29, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the biggest difference is not the opportunity to influence but the opportunity to evaluate.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
An often overlooked point.
What really could he influence? Hard to make a change in a schoolyard full of bullies where the teacher lets them do whatever they want.
Gotta give Jimbo credit. It’s obvious that he mentally gutted this program instead of pissing into the wind. From the millisecond Bobby left, he knew what needed to be done.
And we’re damn fortunate that we are FSU…a big fish in a small pond, sitting in a recruiting hotbed. Not to mention the fact that we have the resources to compete…
We’re fortunate this guy stuck around.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
Fair point Bud, but how do you conclude that UM is sooo behind UF in recruiting?
Right now, with approximately half to two-thirds of our recruiting classes complete (from a verbal standpoint), here is the comparison (using Rivals rankings). UF has no 5-star recruits, 9 4-star recruits (2 with a 5.9 rating, 7 with a 5.8 rating), and 3 3-star recruits (all with a 5.7 rating). Miami has no 5-star recruits, 7 4-star recruits (1 with a 5.9 rating, 6 with a 5.8 rating) and 11 3 star recruits (6 with a 5.7 rating, 4 with a 5.6 rating, 1 with a 5.5 rating).
So UM is basically 1 5.9 rated recruit and 1 5.8 rated recruit behind UF. And this is summertime, before guys are re-evaluated. For instance, one of UM’s lowest-rated 3-star recruits is QB Preston Dewey, who just made the Elite 11. With a strong performance at Elite 11 and a good season, there is a strong chance that he gets a 4th star.
So I’m not sure why you conclude that Golden is soooo far behind Muschamp in recruiting. I freely acknowledge that FSU is out in front of both of us, but this is July. Miami has never had 20 verbals in July.
Yes, about 10 of our expected 30 signees will be guys that we need for depth/special teams/projects. So when Signing Day rolls around, let’s match our 20 best against UF’s 20 best against FSU’s 20 best and see how close together/far apart we are.
Plenty of time.
by TheOriginalCane on Jul 5, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I agree,
Just saying why you’ll see raised expectations (if that’s the right phrase for a rival) from FSU fans regarding Golden.
It’s reinforced by the whole “Golden must hit it out of the park” mentality, which I don’t believe he is currently. I’m a pessimist, so I believe he will eventually.
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Golden had more to change...
and he got a much later start. Jimbo was here for 2years as the OC which was a huge advantage. He knew what was wrong and how to fix it before he ever became the HC.
Sorta agree here.
Jimbo is most definitely an elite recruiter. That is only part of being an elite head coach. While he has done some pretty great things as a coach on the field it hasnt all been great. I would not consider him an elite head coach just yet. Maybe very soon but still alot to do before he gets that tag.
I didnt get a harrumph out of that guy!
Didn't Golden NOT beat some of the teams he was supposed to his last year?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Just a cursory glance at their schedule
And I see about 3 win share losses between FSU, UNC, VT and ND.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jun 29, 2011 9:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BOYCOTT BOB ELLIOT
This is the bet I have going with the only UM fan in the whole state of Louisiana (2001-2002 bandwagoner that never stepped off)
THEY STOLE IT FROM US
you mean Jim Bob Elliot?
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Still love delusional UM fans
Corey will be wrong about the recruiting national championship. No one yet has a better class than us, and we are going to finish incredibly.
Should be the top class in the country.
We already expect it from Golden.
No one has a better class the UM? As of now? God I wish the UM fans that come here would to their job and keep their fans from making them look impossibly uniformed. They actually think they have the best class now…..smh
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Where did that come from?
Not saying it surprises me. I’ve always said we have some of the dumbest fans around. They usually only show up when good things happen, so I’m hoping it’s a sign.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
that came from the replys
on the UM article
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
I want to start an entire thread of just ridiculous ESPN comments. They’re so, SO bad. It is like watching a train wreck: you don’t want to watch it, but you’re memorized and can’t look away.
If you want a great read on that
Go to ESPN and the recruting area and class rankings. read the quotes under the class rankings. Will blow your mind at how uninformed many are. I even somehow got sucked into having to argue with a UM fan who was stating his case as a better team cause we got beat by OU last year but years ago last time UM played OU they beat them. I swear. real conversation in those quote areas. Of course I only go their occasionally and use a different name. Since I was banned once before because I was maybe being a little mean to the “special” UM fans
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
80% of the ACC blog's posted aren't even football related.
Easting in the Creminhole. OOOOOOH we’re the asylum. We’re craaaaazy!!!!!!!!!!! No. you’re stupid.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of "things I want to start"
A tomahawknation “out of context” log. Complied by a select few (mostly tricknole and DKN since b/w the 2 of them, TN is covered 247), quotes that in any way could be construed as suggestive are copied (w/ username, of course), and placed into an attractive leatherbound volume and made available for a mere $19.95 plus S/H.
Nah…I made that last part up, but the log WOULD be pretty funny
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
I’ve always said we have some of the dumbest fans around
DannyBoyCane is turning over in his grave, son.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
DBC is brilliant.
The antithesis of dumb.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
to clear that up
thats not a bash on UM fans and ones that come here like resurrection who knows the deal. its the “average” UM fan that never even went their that make UM fans look bad. Most people see those statements and dont realize that many UM fans with a sense of reality know much better. But the uninformed are the loudest
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
It's funny, too, that those that post crap like that
are the one’s that have to be talked down from the ledge after one loss. That reminds me, who in the world talks them off that ledge, and why?
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, other Cane fans
You know. All the ones that never went there and grew up in the 90s just watching games. While having no clue about the actually landscape of college football changing drastically over last decade
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Remove the last sentence,
and that’s me.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
you have earned your respect
As hard as that is to do for the UM fan base. At least here. You come , talk football. Of course you have some different views being a UM fan. But your arguments or thoughts are legit. Not. We are going to go 24-1 in next years 13 game schedule
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
That's why I like coming here.
You actually talk about football. That’s a really novel idea for a football blog. You’d think it would have been done already.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I bet out of every 100 UM fans only 15 have Diplomas from them. But you can tell. Cause hate to say it but they usually have some sense. I usually disqualify someone as having attended UM as soon as they say. blah blah blah more titles then you. At that point I can tell that in all likelyhood they never went
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
07 in Tallahassee
in the Doak, a huge group of UM fans started chanting “safety school” right behind the student section and when we turned around to question them, not one of them went to UM. They were all from FAU, FIU, BCC, DCC, or “f*** off, I don’t go to college.”
Yet now I’m at UM for grad school and the students are logical, informed and pleasant, leading me to only one conclusion. There is a forcefield around Coral Gables that prevents the polite, intelligent Canes fan from escaping, or perhaps they are all afraid of driving North and having to go through Overtown and Opa Locka. What type of sorcery is in effect I know not, but I shall get to the bottom of it.
by Twitchy Nole on Jun 29, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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I agree.
Ran into a bunch of obnoxious cane fans at one of the UM/FSU games in Tally. Buddy started yelling at all of them, “Show me your student ID!” This went on for a solid 10 minutes before one finally walked by that was an actual student. We got him beers from the tailgate. He was, I guess, one of the few that made it passed the force field.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This pains me though, because I don’t hold an FSU degree, does this make me less of a fan?
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
do you look upon FSU grads as lesser than yourself?
thats the issue i have. i love the Miami and UF fans that say my degree isnt as good as one at their schools, but they couldnt get into any of them. and i got into both FSU and UF (didnt bother applying to Miami, and i was just curious enough about UF to fill out the application).
my thinking is simple: if you dont disparage somebody’s education in comparison to your team, when your actual education is worse than either one, you are fine by me. i have been a fan since i was little, and if i had chosen another school it wouldnt have made me less of a fan.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Definitely not.
And I agree. While the reality is that, say, Harvard is “better” than JMU (my alma mater) there is so much more that goes into an education than the name of the program attached to it. Not to mention that “[ you shouldn’t let school interfere with your education]” applies immensley as the mind of a student isn’t capped just because of the program he/she attends (except for some basic resource limitations). Would I have gone to Harvard if I had the chance? Absolutely. Was my education life forever ruined because of going to JMU? Nope, although not as well heeled.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Let's face it. The guys we're actually rooting for
aren’t getting a _________ education from any of these schools.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
now let me go take a shower because i just rec’d a cane fan’s post.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
To quote (insert player's name).
Da Troof is da troof.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
“He doesn’t know the meaning of the word fear, but then again he doesn’t know the meaning of most words.” – Uncle Bobby
by Twitchy Nole on Jun 30, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
That rule doesn't apply to FSU.
On a sold out night, there are 80,000+ FSU graduates packed into Doak Campbell Stadium.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to ask then: was FSU’s top-15 rating boosted by beating the eventually-good BYU when the Cougars were quite bad?
Probably not nearly as much as OU’s boost for hammering eventual #15 FSU.
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions
It's possible that helped us
But I think we pound them at the end of the season, same as we did at the beginning.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
Noles News
Just wanted to say these are awesome Bud, always read them and is great you not only post the links and excerpts but actual insight/opinions. Keep em coming…
Is it september yet?
Glad you enjoy them because they are going to to continue. I basically go through my RSS reader, filter out all the fluff stuff and bring you guys things that were new or interesting to me.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Sadly,
I get more Miami info here than from the Canes blogs. So, thanks for that as well.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Cane Blog Headline
“How many championships will Al Golden win in his first year at the U?”
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
You want me to be nice?
You’ve taken the pot vs. kettle battle to another level…..you’re both!
Better known as Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jun 29, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
HAHA.
I know I know…I guess it just can’t be helped.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately for "real" fans,
he’s right.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Even into the season?
By the way, I know they are time consuming but will the play by play drive analysis be returning? Really enjoyed those.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jun 29, 2011 9:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Probably.
And on the second part, we’ll be looking for someone to do a few games for us.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
For those who like "Nole News" stuff. There is a good collection of daily articles on The Territory as well.
The poster (Bill from Tampa) has been doing this for years. Some stories are repeats of what you see here but many are not. Between the two, you get everything you could possibly want related to FSU.
Bill is a legend
The man wakes up 365 days a year and posts the daily chop, and whatever is going on at the territory.
If I had to pick an “Ultimate FSU fan”, he gets my vote. I’m pretty sure he has every FSU roster memorized, and I’m not really even kidding.
He’s the ultimate old school
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
He's apparently called into every FSU call in show since 1976.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
He really does great work. And he has the best title for the series.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't disagree that Clemson has awesome fans and support
but I did post a point on STS. They say “not exactly located in a metropolis”, but actually Clemson is incredibly well located geographically. They’ve got 10 million people in a 2 hour 15 minute drive, and it’s an EASY drive from Atlanta and Charlotte.
Other than urban schools like USC or Rutgers, I’m not sure there’s many more schools that are geographically better positioned in terms of population. Huge advantage.
I think Virginia Tech could also make a great case for the ACC’s best fans. It’s hard to know how many their stadium could actually fill, and their location is a joke compared to Clemson.
Exactly on Clemson. Location location location.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Its hard for me to believe that people and recruits like Clemsons location and the area. I guess because I have lived 5 minutes from the campus all my life I fail to see what everyone else sees. Just didn’t seem like a place that would attract recruits.
by NOLEisticscience on Jun 29, 2011 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
same draw as VT, but with a better fanbase
not much to do in the middle of nowhere but get drunk and watch football, so the football players are treated more like kings than usual.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
It's an SEC town in the ACC.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
Get treated like Kings
It is an awesome place. I’m a UNC guy but every time I’ve been down to Clemson in or out of season to visit friends and take in the scenery it is absolutey great. They treat their athletes first class and it is a solid little college town. It’s no Athens but if you’re a kid from that radius of NC-SC-GA it is the next best thing to playing in Athens from a lifestyle stand point.
http://inthebleachers.net
by InTheBleachers on Jun 29, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no other way to say this...
Athens, GA is the tits. If you can’t have fun in that town, then you must be dead.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
Death Valley is not where you want your team traveling for a primetime game, but
Va Tech on a Thursday night is as brutal as it gets.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I would take playing at VT over at Clem. Both are hostile but CU is much louder.
CU is as loud as new Bama (104K), Swamp, LSU etc
(when it is good)
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You been to Lane on the Thursday night?
It rivaled the swamp when I was there. The shape of that stadium really traps noise and they are a rowdy bunch.
No, have not. Were you at Clemson in 03 or 09?
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No and I'm not doubting Clemson gets loud
because I am quite sure it does. Just that I’ve been to Lane on a Thursday night and Saturday and they get much louder on Thursday night then they do Saturday games for some reason. Whether its as loud or maybe not, Lane is not a place I’d like to send the Noles for a Thursday night game.
Loudest stadium I've ever been in
I’ve been to Texas vs Texas ATM in College Station, the swamp, packed (old) orange bowl, packed notre dame stadium, and ohio st vs michigan in the big house.
That’s def not an extensive list, but i could FEEL the noise in Clemson – it’s acoustically perfect.
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Can anyone give their best guess at ranking the loudest stadiums in the ACC?
I ask b/c virtually all OU fans I’ve spoken with insist that playing at Doak at night isn’t very loud, e.g., loud enough to negatively affect (e.g., false starts, delay of games, etc) an experienced offense.
Championship!
Have to decide whether we are ranking them on average or when full
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, whilst full, at night, plenty drunk, big game...
Clemson
FSU
VT
NC State
Miami
Georgia Tech (acoustically excellent)
Maryland
UNC
I haven’t been to the others, and to be fair I was in Chapel Hill when they really, really sucked, so not much atmosphere.
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
if you are basing it soley on volume
Then yes, Clemson may top the list. However, from an overall intimidation standpoint, The Doak is it. It looks like a castle, gets insanely loud for big games, and is home to a very storied program. Its a cathedral built buy the greatest dynasty in the history of major CFB. Oh yeah, and there’s The Chop, The Warchant, Renegade and Osceola. When FSU is good, NOBODY wants to play us there. Ask a fan of almost any other program where they’d rather have to play a road game at night and I bet none of them pick Tally. For 20 years only one program was a consistent threat to come there and leave with a W and they ended up with 5 national championships over that stretch.
by Widespread Seminole on Jun 29, 2011 4:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Personally, and I may be biased, but
for a big game, the Orange Bowl was the most intimidating. It was loud, home to the longest home winning streak in NCAA history, you could get mugged going in, and if you got in, you may have needed a tetanus shot when you left. That, and it could have fell on you at any time.
Still better than Sunlife Stadium anyday.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I saw your conversation on crimson and cream or whatever it is
that one dude is just a dumb fan who probably thinks that anything OU is better than anything not OU
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have to go with
1) Clemson
2) VT
3) FSU (because Doak just doesn’t hold the noise…not an indictment on the fans)
4) NC State
5) Miami
6) GT
7) UNC
8) Maryland
And if OU fans think our game will be soft, with a packed house, at night, possibly gameday, and 82K wasted fans channeling 10 years of frustration into vicious rage, then they have another thing coming…
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
Doak’s reputation has taken a huge hit because of the lost decade, but I was at the UF game last year and it was the loudest environment that I’ve even been in at Doak (p.s. got here in ’99… a pretty good year). It is still one of the biggest stadiums in the country and can be very hostile.
Championship!
and rec
82K wasted fans channeling 10 years of frustration into vicious rage
>>>─────;;─►
by NorFla_Nole on Jun 29, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So I had to look it up.
Numbers don’t lie, FSU does a very good job considering:
Clemson MSA: 1,362,073
Tallahassee MSA: 275,487
Ouch.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
huh?
Clemson sits in the Greenville, SC MSA which has around 600,000 people in it.
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Jun 29, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson is 1.2 million
and biggest MSA in the state of SC.
you are right sorry.
Was looking a the combined. Point still stands, over double for the MSA.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol,
I was literally about to write the exact same thing. The drawing area is very large but not quite comparable. I dont think there is a CSA for Tallahassee though.
The Swami has spoken.
by seminole_swami on Jun 29, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah,
including sopchoppy isn’t going to help much. haha.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Much, much more dramatic if you take it out to a 2.25 hour drive.
Probably like 10 million to 500,000.
eh then that puts you in the Jacksonville Pensacola range
While not quite 10 million its quite a bit more than 500k. Jacksonville MSA is around 1.2 million and Pensacola is sitting at about 450k. With another couple hundred thousand from the rest of the panhandle
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
jax is closer to 3 hours
same as Pcola, especially on gameday with gameday traffic. Also consider that Jax is a heavy Gator town. The closest “pro-Noles” town is 4 hours away in Tampa.
I wouldn't say Tampa is "Pro-Noles"
There are many Noles here but compared to Gators, eh.
We may win the bar fight, but we would definitely be out numbered.
by DoubleNickel on Jun 29, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Is there even a Nole-town outside of Tallahassee?
If there is, I haven’t lived there. (also, I live in Tampa and agree it’s pretty heavy for the turds)
by Nolesos Locos on Jun 29, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Doubt it.
If there is, it’s in the Panhandle (so not very big). Pensacola? Panama City, maybe? Not to mention, Tallahassee, while being a “Nole town” isn’t the same as other schools towns. There are A LOT of gators, rattlers, bulldogs, bammers, etc. here in Tally. You can go to Gainesville, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Baton Rouge, Athens, Knoxville, etc. and 97-99% of the fans there pull for the “home team.” However, in Tally, it’s more like 60% Noles, 25% gators, 5% canes, 5% rattlers, and 5% everyone else.
FSU is a minority in Pensacola, actually.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
it has been that way as long as i can remember
and the Gator fans were always the more obnoxious fans
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I was asking because I have some turncoat relatives in the area
which worked out nice for me since they gave a commemorative ’99 championship ball.
Yea biit gotta remember
When your near the capital city of a state with a few million it will be influenced by all sorts.. When you live In gainesville with only pitchforking inbread hicks in the areas away from the school the team love for the locals is much higher
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Tallahassee has hicks too, brotha
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
Oh I know that for sure
But its still has a mix. At UF. Off campus. their is no mix. just pitchforks
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Disagree, really.
I lived there for a bit and its no different than every other isolated SEC town.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
by CornNole on Jun 29, 2011 2:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jeez
Can ya bare with me just for the sake of bashing UF !!!!!!!!!
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
I mean there is a severe lack of diversity
from a demographic perspective for sure. I don’t want to say that outside of the university, it is a bunch of hicks, but there is a pretty fair percentage in the immediate surrounding areas where it is like watching an episode of swamp people. As far as it being like every other SEC town, I agree with that, but it may have less diversity than most.
by zeitgeistnole on Jun 30, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Pensacola
Is starting to become pretty pro Nole right now. Though I think most folks are bandwagoners who will route for whoever is on top. I think the 2010 season changed some minds about which team to “sort of” care about.
by stop drop & nole on Jun 29, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Radio stations, newspapers, and population are generally pro-Gaytor. Tampa has quit a representation of Noles though. Each time I drive up 19 to the game we have a caravan of cars all the way from Tampa.
by BucsNolesRays on Jun 29, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Individually, yes...
but when you add them together you get a solid base the size of Valdosta.
#allsarcasmbtw
Championship!
They also have all the $ in Tampa, unfortunately. Attorneys, , MD’s, etc.
by DoubleNickel on Jun 29, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Just based on car decals and what not, I think FSU does quite well in the Ft. Myers area.
But perhaps Bud or others would opine differently.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
We do.
Lots of Nole fans down in Naples/Ft Myers/Cape Coral.
I went to school with a truckload of ’em.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Didn't realize we were going by such an exact number. Just figured anywhere from 2 to 3 hours
Pensacola is about 2 1/2 hours, but 1 hour 45 is doable
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It's doable, sure
In a helicopter.
In a car, no so much. I’ve made that trip at least a hundred times in my life, and have never made it in under 2. Ever.
If you have, and can prove it though, I’d be very impressed, simply due to the fact that police will hang out on I-10 on football Saturdays to catch gulf coast traffic into Tally
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
Not on a Saturday
I went home to pensacola for the weekend and stayed till monday, and monday morning I remembered I had an exam at noon. I live close to exit 17 on scenic so its only 180 miles exit to exit, still had to average like 95 the whole way.
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheating.
You get an extra 15 minutes by using that Scenic Hwy exit.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
pshh scenic counts
its the eastern gate to the western gate of the sunshine state
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Still cheating
I live close to downtown, so I take offense to the fact that you get 15 to 20 minutes I don’t
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
the speed limit on 110 needs to be 110
for as little as its utilized
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheating
Not Pensacola. My guess is that you utilized Bell Lane and Avalon, saving 30 minutes that most other Pensacolians must endure.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
In no way
does using Avalon ever save you time. They’ve been doing construction since I graduated highschool
Formerly known as 'stilts'
It makes sense
if you think about the interstate. If I was going from Downtown Pcola to the Avalon exit…that does take a while.
I was mostly joking
But it probably doesn’t take much longer than getting from 5 points to the Avalon exit.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
it does take like 10 minutes to get from 90 to the interstate using avalon
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Its ok buddy...
You never sound cool
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
by CornNole on Jun 29, 2011 3:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yea it is 2.75
if you are able to drive with no traffic…but on gameday coming from jax traffic is much more intense….Either way Atlanta, Charlotte and Columbia are all closer to Clemson then PCola and Jax are to tally.
hey now, dont sell us short!
the 2007 number in Tallahassee is 357,259. boomin, baby, boomin.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I should have,
obviously, done this better. Final Numbers
Clemson MSA (Greenville-Mauldin-Easley): 636,986 (this is NOT the combined which is over 1.3m)
Tallahassee MSA: 367,413 (no CMS)
Final Answer? Sure, final answer.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what people here don't get-they're not completely out in the sticks like we are.
Clemson looks like it’s way out in the boonies, but Anderson’s less than a half-hour away, Greenville’s a half-hour away, Spartanburg’s an hour away, Charlotte’s 90 minutes away, and Atlanta’s 2-1/2 hours away (traffic permitting).
Tallahassee? I remember reading an article that described it as “the biggest town in the smallest region of the lower 48.” It’s 3 hours to Macon, 3 hours to P’cola, 3 hours to Jax, 4 to Tampa, 4 to Orlando, 5 to ATL…
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
"the biggest town in the smallest region of the lower 48."
I absolutely buy that.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well isn't that place just a geographical oddity,
3 hours from everywhere.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Just to add the overall attendance discussion
Got this email yesterday from the FSU Ticket Office:
“First and foremost, thank you for your support as a 2011 football season ticketholder. Thanks to you we are seeing the highest ticket sales numbers in years. Our renewal rate among previous season ticketholders is 91% and our new sales are 13% ahead of where we finished last year. With those numbers we are projecting to be at or very close to 40,000 season tickets sold by summers end for the first time since the 2007-08 season.”
by AmplifiedJ on Jun 29, 2011 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Love to hear that.
Thanks for posting, I was wondering about those numbers.
by Blake Davis on Jun 29, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
i think the jury is still out
On a few of those Golden recruits. We have to see their senior season. Still- it looks like he is still recruiting for the old team. It seems like taking a kid to a toy store for the first time. He starts picking up everything and then his hands are full of pokemon by the time he gets to the light saber aisle.
Good news for you, I'm a drunk and a washout already, so I can talk to whoever I want, burned or not. -Sam Axe
by Ponder This on Jun 29, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
A few of them will turn into studs. But you cannot build a team with that many sleepers.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
And rec’d for Pokemon and light saber references.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree he is taking some of his projects a little early, but we have lots of room this year.
I think he expects some of them to blow up their senior seasons, too. Better to get them before everyone else starts looking their way. One, I pretty much know, will blow up and get more teams looking this year.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
But will Cane Nation
give him time to have guys be awesome their senior season? Unfortunately I think Randy has left the next coach a very short leash and even shorter time table.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jun 29, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as his teams play hard and compete, I think he'll get to stick around.
The biggest gripe people had about about Shannon wasn’t so much the win-loss record as much as his teams just didn’t even look like they were trying. There’s not a person here that didn’t see that in the FSU game last year. No way we should have lost like that. The team came out flat against our biggest rival. The only players who showed heart consistently last year were Hankerson, Morris, Telemaque, and Miller. Everyone else just knew whether they were one of Shannon’s boys or not, and THAT is what dictated playing time. No competition whatsoever.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Miami came out flat. But Jimbo absolutely outcoached Randy for the first half and the Canes did quit after that imo.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
That play action screen to JT was nasty...
The evidence that Randy was out-classes was so obvious in that we only ran the ball right…and they never stopped it or shifted to protect the right side.
FSU did physically win some battles, but it was mostly coahing. Miami simply did not have guys in position.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
you mean like running over the RT every time?
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
go back and watch it and they were sometimes misaligned by an entire gap after motion.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
good lord
i was just pointing out the obvious coaching error (a lack of adjustment in-game), but i didnt know it was that systemic
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Was that the only time we ran that all season?
I was like “A screen pass to Jermaine Thomas…I wonder how long Jimbo’s been sitting on THAT play?”
Maybe DKN can shed some light.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
No doubt Shannon and Whipple and Lovett were all outclassed.
That’s why I still have confidence in the players. If a couple guys come out flat, that’s on them. If the whole frickin team looks like they’ve never seen a helmet with a spear on it, at home no less, that’s on the coaching staff.
The biggest problem under Shannon was the lack of competition for playing time. Look at the thread about FSU players competing for PT. That didn’t happen under Shannon. That quit happening under Bowden. In the heyday of the FSU/Miami rivalry, THAT was the biggest advantage for both schools. Starters had to compete for their job in the spring, and prove themselves every frickin’ Saturday to keep it. Then, came the expectation of just rolling our helmets on the field and winning titles. The fire was gone for the players and the coaches. Coker quit even looking at recruits, rivals knows who’s good. Bowden got lazy. Then, Shannon brought back talent, but never made them work for their PT. Jimbo has changed the culture at FSU, and I believe Golden is changing it at Miami.
I just made myself way to nostalgic, and depressed, with that post.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 29, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The biggest problem for Shannon appears to be the trouble he had with recruiting
You can have competition all your want, but if your players talent don’t match your opponents you’d still be up a creek on the field.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
he still recruited
They did have the top class just a year or 2 before he left
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Yeah, but then destroyed subsequent years
with taking a class full of scrubs.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
i know
But he had some sort of recruiting in roads. No idea what happened. I guess as things changed they were still UM. And the fact the more recent we get the fewer kids that ever remember UM ever winning or even playing for a title.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,of their conference
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love name @caine115
Machiavellian example:
a big part of the problem appears to be Shalala’s ideologic approach to who should and shouldn’t be recruited and accepted.
To quote Machiavelli:
“…because how one lives is so far distant from how one ought to live [(i.e., how recruiting and the system really is)], that he who neglects what is done for what ought to be done [(i.e., not taking recruits with some character and academic issues)], sooner effects his ruin than his preservation; for a man who wishes to act entirely up to his professions of virtue soon meets with what destroys him among so much that is evil . [(i.e., Miami on the brink, needing a superb class to stay revelvant)]”
pg 65, The Prince, Niccolo Machiavelli, translation by W.K. Marriott, copyright Arc Manor 2007, ISBN 978-0-9794154-0-1.
I only took some of the beggining out because it was irrelevant historical material, the rest is one complete sentance [(but I inserted my thoughts on how it related like this)],.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
by FSUvaFan on Jun 29, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
very good reference
essentially, the idea is not to be an idealist and live in a fantasy world of how you think it should be. instead, live in the real world as it is, and react thusly. virtue can be useful, but being idealistic is a quick route to failure.
then again, Machiavelli was a bit coarse, so that may come across as mean.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Thanks.
That’s Machiavelli’s basic premise through which all of his advice flowed, imho. I don’t subscribe to all of this ideas, but did find it interesting how well it related.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
im not 100% with him
but i am a dedicated realist, and on that point we are in total agreement. its not a flowers and butterflies existence, but i would rather be honest with myself, accept the world as it is, and live within the constraints it presents. dont get why people live as though things can be awesome if only the right people could come together and make it happen, only to be crushed when it inevitably doesnt happen.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
It is better...
…to die in a struggle for a possibly unattainable dream world than it is to accept a miserable reality. We only live once. Why be happy with less than we desire?
by stop drop & nole on Jun 29, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
its not quite that bad
realism involves making the best life for yourself, but based on the realities of the world around you. idealism assumes that things that seem great, but impossible, are attainable.
i work to better myself and make myself happy within the confines of reality. i will never be the starting QB at FSU, but that doesnt mean i cant be happy otherwise. dreaming is for kids, the real world has limitations. the sooner people understand that, the happier they will ultimately be.
its not pessimism, its optimistic realism. its the difference between saying FSU is a great program, but not elite because it lacks the rabid support that the elite schools have (Texas, UF), and thinking it is on the same level and being disappointed when it doesnt shake out that way.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Possibly unattainable? yes
But certainly unattainable? no.
One is lofty aspiration, the other crazed delusion.
The trick is in telling them apart, and deciding what to do when you realize that one has become the other.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Didn't ESPN do a 30 for 30 on him?
I think it was called One Night In Vegas.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN doing a 30 for 30 on Machiavelli? That would be hilarious.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
They did.
He was shot after a Mike Tyson fight in Vegas in 1996.
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we're misunderstanding one another.
I’m talking about Niccolo Machiavelli, born in Florence on May 3rd, 1469.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
The one I'm talking abuot Said
I ain’t a killa but don’t push me
revenge is like the sweetest joy next to gettin p***y
by Nole Resurrected on Jun 30, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for semblance of culture that's not bacterial
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Semblance?
I’ll think the best and assume you’re not intending to say that that display of culture was specious, or unreal.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Quite the contrary
That post displayed actual comprehension and understanding of great books not often cited, and thus got my rec.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Ah' thanks.
I had a hunch you would like it.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Rec'd because it's the truth.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
But 2/3 of your current class is 3* or worse.
That’s lousy.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
where is this fabled lightsaber aisle you speak of?
>>>─────;;─►
by NorFla_Nole on Jun 29, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, its at the Dagobah ToysrUs
Not everyone has a British benefactor down the block.
Good news for you, I'm a drunk and a washout already, so I can talk to whoever I want, burned or not. -Sam Axe
by Ponder This on Jun 29, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Maryland
Thanks for you work on these Bud. For some reason this Maryland story is interesting.
I think Maryland is in an odd position with hiring Edsall. I find it weird that they fired Friedgen yet hire Edsall under the reasoning of raising expectations. Yet what does hiring him really show? Edsall is a decent coach, but UConn was not actually a BCS-bowl worthy team last year (from a talent/personnel standpoint) and I just wonder do the Maryland admin and fans expect Edsall to challenge FSU, Clemson, VT for conference titles year in and year out? Or are they happy with 7 to 8 wins, and if they are happy with 7 to 8 wins, why fire Friedgen (letting the HCIW go also….) in the first place?
Agreed. I think their AD is quite dumb.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
He would've been fine had he approached the situation differently
Randy Edsall is like a 2009 Honda Accord.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
About to have a mass recall?
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Yeah, going from Friedgen to Edsall was a bonehead call
Not necessarilly because Friedgen was beloved and untouchable, although I would argue he should have been at the rate he was winning. And frankly, it wasn’t just about the wins, it was the fact that while Maryland had it’s share of bad losses and blowout losses under Friedgen, Maryland football was basically competetive on an any given Saturday basis. If you are a Maryland fan, you might know you’re going to lose 4-6 games a year, but when you went out to any individual game, there was every expectation you might win the game or at least compete. That’s an extremely underrated quality. It isn’t unusual for disadvanaged teams to reach some level of decency, but it’s usually based on finally beating the teams you are expected to be able to beat, but you usually can pencil in your losses. Maryland was never an easy out, and even outside the 10 win seasons gave them a lot of memorable Saturdays under Friedgen.
The big problem is firing a 8 win guy implies to the fans that you can be better. And I think it’s clear Maryland can’t be much better. Friedgen had them very close to their institutional ceiling, barring some kind of major cheating or a wholescale abandonment of academic requirements.
The fan that was satisfied with Friedgen’s 7-8 wins and a bowl game should NOT be happy with Edsall’s 7-8 wins and a bowl game, because your AD has basically told you that would be a failure.
Frankly, I’m not sure I understand why Edsall took the job. I’m not sure there is any situation he’d be more set up to fail.
by LouC on Jun 29, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’m not sure there is any situation he’d be more set up to fail.
Golden is about to find out the anwer to that question
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Friedgen wasn't an 8 win guy his final 7 or so seasons there.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
In his last five seasons
he won 9 games twice and 8 games once. And six out of his 10 seasons there.
That’s close enough for me. I’m not going to call him a 7 win guy when he’s won more than seven games sixty percent of his time there.
And the program was atrocious when he got there.
Yea, his last 7 seasons he went 44-42.
Not an 8 win guy.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Fine, but he won 8 games more often than not
over his career and over his last five years. The point is the same – I don’t think you are being realistic at Maryland to expect 8-9 wins more than 60% of the time.
Except in his final 7 seasons he failed to reach 8 wins more often than not.
And in his final 7 seasons he only averaged 6 wins per year.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Edsall is the program builder you hire before someone else more talented
comes in and takes it to the next level.
What are you glorifying with your life?
The ESPN guy Long said
Duke Johnson is the “best player in the state of FL”. That’s extremely high praise.
Does anyone besides him believe that? I haven’t seen that anywhere else.
He is… in shorts. But at 5’8" 160 it’s not the case.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Al Golden: Recruiting like it's 1969.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jun 29, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
nice job.
Good news for you, I'm a drunk and a washout already, so I can talk to whoever I want, burned or not. -Sam Axe
by Ponder This on Jun 29, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Amnesty
it wont work, plain and simple. he used the 1986 bill as a reference, so its only fitting that we compare the results of that bill: we have a bigger, identical problem now compared to the one we had then. as long as there is the possibility that schools may, at some point, be forgiven for their indiscretions, they will only be emboldened and continue what they have been doing. do nothing, and nothing changes. the only thing that changes bad behavior is effective enforcement.
the NCAA is lazy and understaffed, but they arent dumb; they have a good idea of what happens behind the scenes, and they know that people will continue to find new and creative ways to cheat the system. thats why i think the metaphor of amnesty is a particularly bad one to make here: it only strengthens the case against doing it, not for it. we have 25 years of time elapsed to see how it amnesty works, and it has failed miserably.
to extend the metaphor to law enforcement, immunity is sometimes given for valuable information about a crime. the difference here? there is no “bigger fish” that would be caught for breaking the rules because of information gained. nobody is ratting out the other guy, so there is no reward for the NCAA giving a school immunity, other than finding out how everybody has been cheating. that isnt a sufficient reason to give out free passes.
again, i go back to the speeding reference: its understood that everybody is doing 75-80 in a 70 in the middle of nowhere on I-10. its a long, boring drive, and we are all ready to get to where we are going. but the guy doing 95 is getting pulled and ticketed. does that mean we increase the speed limit to 80, since everybody is doing it anyway? of course not, as that would only result in everyone doing 85-90 and the 95 guy doing 110.
people will continue to break the rules, short of oppressive enforcement. the only way to effectively police the rules is to pick and choose your battles to limit the egregious offenders, or pull over the guy who honks at you and flips you the bird as he passes you doing 80 in a 70. both of them are asking for it, and now you have to do something about it.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Cmon, i was only doing 79.
Another mechanism, foreign to our society, is to limit the number of rules to 2 or 3 that really matter. When you make texting after bed time a violation, everybody becomes a criminal. Now they ask everyone to be good criminals. (i know, its not a crime)
Good news for you, I'm a drunk and a washout already, so I can talk to whoever I want, burned or not. -Sam Axe
by Ponder This on Jun 29, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree amnesty is a bad idea
But unfortunately it seems like the system is set up so that it’s usually to the school’s advantage to cover it up. There is a great chance of getting away with it, and it’s actually kind of hard to figure out why some things are gotten away with and some things get nailed. You can get hit pretty hard even if you cooperate from the jump, so what’s the upside?
I think the move toward putting sanctions on the coach instead of the school is a good move and coaches might think twice about going wild if they have to own it.
I think probably some combination of a lighter hand on some of the smaller violation and a heavier hand on the big ones might help.
i think fessing up should be a mitigating factor
but it doesnt mean you get off scot-free. we got worse than we should have gotten with the academic deal, and i think it should have mattered that we admitted it and investigated it. it didnt seem to make much difference, though.
as far as putting sanctions on the coach, i think thats what Auburn has done, to an extent. they constantly cheat, then hang it on the coach and fire him. you would get a ton of useless figurehead HC’s who can take the fall when the dirty boosters get caught, and nothing changes. the problem lies in punishing the offenders while not punishing future and current athletes who didnt do anything wrong, and i honestly dont know how to do that.
as far as the punishment aspect, i think thats a great strategy. i dont know if they have the staff to do anything about it, but it would be the best strategy. run it like law enforcement, where you dont get bogged down with the minor offenders, but you carry a big stick for the big cases.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
To put it super simply:
Its like when I was young, and I did something bad that I knew had a good probability of my parents finding out… I would tell them and when they started getting pissed I would say, but at least I told you guys the truth.
To that, my dad only mitigated my work in the yard from all day to supper time.
"You are the hope I have for change, You are the only chance I'll take"
-Switchfoot
Those are some good points
However, I think ultimately you do need some coaching stability AND good coaching to be a long term presence at the top. A good coach won’t go into an environment where he KNOWS the boosters are going to run wild, and then send him packing after two years with five years of sanctions around his neck making him almost unemployable. But you might be able to rotate Gene Chizeks through every two or three years, and yes, that might be enough.
Frankly, part of the solution, and it wouldn’t be popular, might be to compensate the players in some way relative to strength of the program.
I’m thinking it this way…at least theoretically, schools like UF, Bama, Texas, can afford more money to illegally “buy” players than do FSU, Virginia Tech, South Carolina. Who in turn have more money than Maryland, Oregon State, and Oklahoma State. Just based on enthusiasm of boosters, size of fan base, longevity of program, whatever. As long as there is an advantage to be had, schools are going to try to press that advantage.
What if there was a way to institutionalize that advantage, bring it within the rules? Say by letting the players sell their merch, or do endorsements. Obviously, the bigger, better the program, the more their merch and endorsements are going to be worth. What if Alabama could say, listen, if you come here our endorsement program will pay you $1000 a month, and if you graduate you’ll receive a payment at graduation of $150,000. And Ole Miss, being Ole Miss, could only offer $500/month and a grad bonus of $60,000.
Yes, that’s an unfair advantage. But how is that different than what is taking place anyway and always has, except what is taking place now is in the dark. You’re never, ever going to level the playing field, but at least you could audit the books. At least schools could work on improving their “compensation programs.” It would allow some boosters, who are probably decent people, a way to work within the lines.
Now obviously, there would be people that still painted outside the lines. No legit program is going to be better than a bag of $200,000 in cash. But you’d put much tougher scholarship sanctions in place. Like the kind that make you 2-10 for three years.
Advantages:
1. Some of this get brought into the light
2. Kids get some deserved compensation
3. For some kids, this will be enough to do it the right way. The choice isn’t between $50,000 in cash, or NOTHING
4. Schools can LEGITIMATELY work toward a competititve advantage, the same way they do with nutrition programs, recruiting budgets, locker facilities.
For every other aspect of this business, schools are allowed to exercise their advantages. Except this one, and trying to enforce is is like trying to hold water in your hand.
by LouC on Jun 29, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i like your optimism
but those who cheat will still cheat. do you think a guy who isnt above paying a kid under the table now will stop when the kid gets paid? unlikely. and is that kid going to say “no thanks, i dont need an extra $500 bucks in my pocket”? not a chance. if they were willing to accept it now, just think of their mentality when the NCAA decides to pay them: “see, i am worth a lot, this extra payment is just because i am worth more than the other guy they didnt offer the money”. its hard not to justify taking money offered to you because of something you did well.
it seems like it would get rid of the need to be dishonest, but the market for dishonesty will always be there. paying players wouldnt fix the problem.
i think the discussion needs to be split into two different debates: 1) whether it is right to pay players in cash instead of just in benefits, and 2) how to stop illegal benefits. one cannot solve the other.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Yeah, I don't know if it's optimism or cynicism
I just don’t think it’s possible to eliminate this stuff completely.
Part of me feels like the big-time schools would have an incentive to make a program like that work, because it allows them to apply their advantages. They have an incentive to back enforcement, because if this is enforced they have all the advantages that are in place with the current illegal benefits business.
Currently, they have no incentive for people to play by the rules, because playing by the rules negates all their advantages. It’s as unnatural as saying that Alabama can’t build a nicer locker room than Duke, or that USC must not serve better food than Baylor. Of course that will be circumvented because its absurd.
I feel like getting away from this mentality that “every school has a chance” or the fiction that they are on some kind of level playing field might help.
Allign the interests of the big-time programs with the rules, and you’ll have a lot easier time enforcing them. And those are the schools that draw the ratings, fill up the stadiums, pay the bill for the conference, etc.
Yes, there will always be someone trying to go the extra mile, but I think it might help.
Also, the NCAA has to find a way to get way out from under all this ticky-tack stuff. Maybe 40 years ago it was a huge benefit to take some poor kid out to dinner. But these violations of taking a kid to dinner, driving him home, letting him borrow your cell phone to make a call, all that stuff is stupid, and it’s all investigated, and takes manpower.
Also, it criminalizes everything. 20+ years ago they put the DARE program in schools to try to keep kids off drugs. And one of the tenets of the program was that Drugs are Drugs, and they are all bad. So cigarettes = weed = exctaxy = crack = heroin etc. Well that might go over with a 5 year old, but once you start equating cocaine with gradpa’s after dinner whisky and uncle Joe’s stash of doobies, it really destroyed the credibility of the program and made it all look like a lie.
The NCAA does that, when it Tank Black handing out SUVs generates nothing, and Bruce Pearl ultimately loses his job over an investigation of hosting a barbecue. Which is to say nothing of the horror stories about investigations resulting in helping a kid home for a funeral or something. It makes it look like they’re excessive and have no rationale. “Well, if EVERYTHING’S illegal why even bother trying to play by the rules?”
They should focus strictly on controlling agent tampering and full scale buying of players. All this other stuff should go down as traffic tickets. Maybe when a report comes in on this piddly stuff, the school has an opportunity to just stipulate to it, with no punishment. No investigation, no sanctions, just a record of it. And that record only comes into play in informing the punishment in the case of major violations.
And it’s not just the NCAA, it’s a waste of compliance resources at the universities to be tracing out whether a kid got a 50% discount on shoes when the coupon was for 20% or got the full car wash and detail when he only paid for the basic. And I’m sure the perks in some towns are much nicer than others, but ultimately few kids are going to be really swayed in their college decision because of a hook-up at the local Denny’s.
Control the Cam Newton and the Reggie Bush situations, and that’s close to enough. I know programs try to drop the dime on each other some times, but even that’s near impossible in this environment. You might want to call attention to the fact that your rival bought a recruit an Escalade, but you can’t because God forbid one of your boosters paid for a $300 plane ticket to send him to your camp.
by LouC on Jun 29, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn, I totally rang the Amnesty bell like a week ago
What are you glorifying with your life?
by ricobert1 on Jun 29, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
There we go!
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
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by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Bold Prediction
Sometime in the next 20 years, University of Texas football caught doing bad, bad $tuff; secede from NCAA, play prison teams, and still make bank.
What are you glorifying with your life?
The Longest Yard, in real life
and its already set in Texas, so its perfect
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I just watched the remake the other night
Adam sandlers character played QB at Florida State
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
and the guy who delivered the line “how did they get you to go to Florida State” was Burt Reynolds, who went to FSU and played Sandler’s role in the original.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Yea I knew Reynolds played that character in the original. Did his character in the original play at florida state too?
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont know if it was ever mentioned
been a while since i saw it, though, so its possible they did
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I can't find it
but they flash a picture of Sandler in an FSU uniform. I tried so hard to find it online, but I never could.
i missed that part
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jun 29, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i could see a UT jv team
Playing in the big 10
Good news for you, I'm a drunk and a washout already, so I can talk to whoever I want, burned or not. -Sam Axe
by Ponder This on Jun 29, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
way to go Not Sure
hey shut up man, OW MY BALLS is on!
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Make them an offer they "Cannot" refuse.
Just do not send Fredo.
by BucsNolesRays on Jun 29, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Texas: I like money
NCAA: I like money too
Texas: We should hang out.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Jun 29, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Florida's baseball success is all recruiting and development of pitchers.
O’Sullivan’s in-game decisions are consistently terrible.
Editor of Run the Floor
Michigan State
Interesting read. I’ve always thought Sparty should be at the level of a Wisconsin/Iowa in the Big 10 but instead went down the same path as Clemson and Texas A&M.
If they have their ducks in a row, between Michigan having to rebuild and the potential hammer coming down at Ohio State, might have the same kind of emergence FSU had when Florida got hammered in the 80s.
by Jonathan Loesche on Jun 29, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions
Someone over at STS has a little bunch in his panties
Over the FSU hype…anyone else catch that?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
Don't underestimate the value of a correctly positioned 'n.'
by CornNole on Jun 29, 2011 3:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I can take it from VT fans, as they've owned the conference
But CU? He’s just angry that he has Dabo as a HC
Ain’t
Clemson’s
Conference
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
BC's panties are coming out their mouth.
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Trick is right.
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
Thanks tricknole!
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Say what you will
about stadium attendance being poor in Miami, but it is pretty great being able to go the the gate and just swipe your student I.D. No ticket lottery, no designated section for students, just first come first serve. It is not great however, how UM stuffs all of their own students into the corner of the upper deck. It’s not like they’re selling the place out anyway, the least they could do is get the loudest section in the stadium closer to the field where it can at least marginally help to make up for a complete lack of home field advantage in that stadium. I saw the Miami Florida State game in the Miami Student section this past season, BEST NIGHT EVER.
its easy for students to get in
nobody wants to buy the seats, so the seats (and gates) are wide open
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
After driving an hour to the stadium haha
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
by Bud Elliott on Jun 29, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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